<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: in the PDF you posted earlier, I like the 'plot to go' terminology
<wolfspraul>
I think 'plot to go' can equally be applied to the pcb and smt manufacturing steps
<wolfspraul>
so in other words it should be possible to automatically generate (plot) from KiCad all files necessary to use for PCB and SMT manufacturing steps
<wolfspraul>
plot to go
<wolfspraul>
pretty cool term I think
<wpwrak>
heh, you read it in more detail than i did :)
<wolfspraul>
kristianpaul: the visitors chart on the qi homepage is back
<wolfspraul>
this time as a PNG, so it requires no more flash
<wolfspraul>
it's not properly cached on the server yet, so load may be bad (I will fix this sometime later)
<wolfspraul>
also, it shows the most conservative number now, unique visitors
<wolfspraul>
even for those numbers I suspect a lot of robots and bot activity, but anyway I only want to display the most conservative numbers, not inflated stuff
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: if you're looking for schematics to track, here's a small one: project f32xbase, c2ben/c2ben.sch
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: in eda-tools/boom/boom-config.in, usage() is not called if you pass no parameters at all
<wpwrak>
heh, you ask for nothing thus you get nothing ;-)
<wolfspraul>
not a good idea
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: boom/boom-config.in: complain if invoked without argument (reported by Wolfgang http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/8bf21d8
<wpwrak>
now it's a tad more user-friendly
<wolfspraul>
thanks for the heads up, I added c2ben to the automatically tracked schematics
<wpwrak>
thanks !
<wpwrak>
it's a slightly simplified version of your "street job". a passive board for in-circuit programming of c8051f32x MCUs. (as used in idbg, atusb, and cntr)
<wolfspraul>
one of the things often overlooked is how small runs and large runs go hand in hand
<wpwrak>
well, two boards - one that goes into the uSD slot and the other that has the header. with a few cm of cable in between to avoid having a long rigid lever
<wolfspraul>
as you know, any attempt to pull off a large run successfully requires supporting 'stuff', fixtures, testing boards, etc.
<wpwrak>
yes, yes .. :)
<wolfspraul>
if you have no way of creating those efficiently, that is both quick and cheap, you will never get to a successful large run either
<wolfspraul>
well, I don't write it for you, but for our logged archives :-)
<wolfspraul>
you know this already of course
<wolfspraul>
but many people don't know how these two things connect together
<wolfspraul>
they don't sell all the little 'side boards' you need if you want to make 100k of anything
<wolfspraul>
and even if you don't look at cash cost, but just at how many days it takes you to make one of these, once you have discovered the need, that can be the make or break decision in your large run
<wolfspraul>
typo: I meant "they don't see all the little..."
<wolfspraul>
so...
<wolfspraul>
the various tools we are fiddling around with here will help us get into a better position to make small runs of small boards possible, cheap and quick
<wolfspraul>
and that's the foundation for anything bigger
<wpwrak>
that's why i like to have a fairly high level of independence in my little lab and workshop :)
<wolfspraul>
totally
<wolfspraul>
small run and large run needs complement each other
<wolfspraul>
if you want to get to the ability to do a large run, you first have to make small runs really efficient
<wpwrak>
you need the small run capability for prototypes anyway
<wolfspraul>
they are the building blocks of the large runs
<wolfspraul>
in my experience you need them all over the place :-)
<wolfspraul>
there is always this or that need popping up for a board you only need 10 or 20 of
<wpwrak>
indeed. like test harnesses :)
<wolfspraul>
but you desperately need those, otherwise you are screwed
<wolfspraul>
maybe it's the hardware equivalents of scripting :-)
<wpwrak>
that's not a bad comparison :)
<wpwrak>
or analogy
<wpwrak>
plus you need mechanical prototyping/one-off capabilities too, not only boards
<wolfspraul>
on the mechanical side I need to learn more about the various work steps, tools, and how they connect
<wolfspraul>
but of course, I would agree that there are many connections and overlaps there too
<wpwrak>
cnc really helps there. e.g., for all the little micro-SD boards i have now, it would be extremely tedious to cut them manually. with the mill, once i have a good parameter set, i can very quickly make a few boards (how many depends on how many i can cut from a single raw pcb. when i have to change pcbs, a longer adjustment process is needed)
<wolfspraul>
you mean the board outline?
<wpwrak>
for one-offs, it's basically materials like wood or anything you can get in easily processable sheets (such as pcbs). then add screws, glue, etc. ;-)
<wpwrak>
yes, that was about board outlines
<wpwrak>
if i need something else that's 2D, the same process applies. well, i should use heekscad for such things too, so that i would get more accurate outlines (my quick and dirty math doesn't get the non-90 deg angles right). it's just an inconvenient detour, so i take the shortcut and live with a few small imperfections.
<wpwrak>
one-offs can also be all manual. depends a bit on what they are. e.g., for some of the 3D scans i need special supports that hold the part well in place but that aren't themselves "seen" by the scanner.
<wpwrak>
many 3D problems can also be reduced to 2D. particularly the laser cutter folks are getting good at that. they have those machines that make incredibly good 2D cuts but are (almost) completely useless when it comes to 3D. so they piece their 3D structures together from 2D elements.
<wpwrak>
there are probably a few interesting tricks to learn from them
<wpwrak>
anyway,getting a nap now. fedex may ring in just a few hours :)
<roh>
wpwrak heh.. tell me
<roh>
;)
<roh>
wpwrak holler if you need something lasered
<wolfspraul>
roh: can you show me the machines/tools you have access to when I visit Berlin around 27c3?
<roh>
wolfspraul sure
<wolfspraul>
ok cool, thanks
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: in eda-tools/boom/dist/dk/Makefile, line 40, is the -recursive in rm -rf necessary? Would a plain rm -f be enough?
<wolfspraul>
kyak: hmm, yeah. I don't know either. he used to be here more I will ping him. you can email the discussion list, cc mirko.vogt@sharism.cc
<kyak>
ok, will do, thanks!
<kyak>
(however, i don't like mailing lists very much :) )
<kristianpaul>
wolfspraul: chart is thre  !!
<kristianpaul>
thanks !!
<kristianpaul>
:)
<wpwrak>
yeah. heise mentioned the ben nanonote support in their 2.6.36 announcement. not on the "front page" but at least it's there.
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: boom/dist/dk/Makefile: changed rm -rf to rm -f (reported by Wolfgang Spraul) http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/ce1d269
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: fixed. thanks for spotting !
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: he :-) [heise]
<wolfspraul>
the heise guys are pretty cool, I know two of them now and they are reading what I write to them
<wolfspraul>
I'm pretty sure if we would provide a higher quality news stream to them some things would pop up, over time
<wolfspraul>
working on it, as you know...
<wpwrak>
good, good :)
<wpwrak>
if you have heise, you have germany :)
<wolfspraul>
I honestly think that any German media, as well as all other non-US/UK countries, are not a good starting point for syndication
<wolfspraul>
in other words, if you are covered by some relevant US or UK media, all others will pickup the story :-)
<wolfspraul>
you can be covered in the largest French, Spanish, German, Polish or what not magazine, and nothing will happen
<wolfspraul>
(except for in that country, of course, if you have a strong enough presence there)
<wolfspraul>
so I work with German media because I happen to speak the language. just rationally my time would be better spent working with US/UK media.
<kyak>
wolfspraul: do you happen to know why "Delete" button (red arrow + BackSpace) is acting as BackSpace on Ben?
<wolfspraul>
no, sounds like a bug
<kyak>
i rememember it has always been like this
<kyak>
i just never really cared
<kyak>
need to investigate then :)
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: (us vs. de) dunno. germany seems to be a very fertile ground for anything open, more so (in proportion) than many other places. also, anything that gets covered in germany reaches the large population there (plus austria and switzerland). remember that germany was about on par with the us as a market for openmoko. so i think your time isn't wasted trying to access that market.
<methril_work>
what is the kernel on NNs?
<methril_work>
did you see this improvement http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commitdiff;h=0798cea8c2e1afee59686c51d27d0e96b05e42d1 ?
<methril_work>
it's on 2.6.36
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: yes but trust me. in most cases, German journalists wait for US/UK news to translate/copy. you can reach them that way better than directly.
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: ah well, that may be. so, theregister.co.uk next - feed the vulture ? :)
<wolfspraul>
xiangfu: I'll move the 2010-09-14 image out of the testing folder now, and point the latest symlink to it
<wolfspraul>
also I will delete the other testing images
<wolfspraul>
I hope we have a new image soon with more frameworks working :-) (mirko is on it...)
<wolfspraul>
but we need to officially release 2010-09-14 because it is also the one that has been reflashed on the latest run of 1k Bens
<wolfspraul>
done... from now on people who just innocently run reflash_ben.sh will get 2010-09-14
<kyak>
that's a very nice image
<wolfspraul>
good you like it, I'm a bit worried about the Qt/SDL problems
<wolfspraul>
also we broke binary compatibility (due to 0.9.32), and will probably switch back (!) in the next image
<wolfspraul>
but of course, there are many improvements in there, it's just not all perfectly rounded yet
<kyak>
i myself never switched to 0.9.32, due to mentioned problems :)
<wolfspraul>
he, OK
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<wolfspraul>
but like I said, now people running reflash_ben.sh will just get it
<wolfspraul>
oh well. we will have another, better, image soon I hope
<kyak>
but 0.9.30.1 also got it's problems.. like the screen is skrewed after exiting Qt applications
<wpwrak>
(still untested if the whole contraption works properly)
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: it's also an idea for your "street job", in case it turned out ugly. with one pcb on each side, soldering the cable is actually quite easy.
<wpwrak>
now, if fedex would hurry a little, i could make a lead-free version of it as well ...
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: why only 4 wires? due it's just a test? there should be the 8 of it wired in the final break out board, isn't it?
<kristianpaul>
wolfspraul: release release !!
<kristianpaul>
:)
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: hello, i just wonder why i must do symbolic link in rc.d to make the start init.d script to work
<kristianpaul>
once do it, i have a nice shiny gmenu2x booting at startup
<kyak>
that's how rc.d works
<kristianpaul>
ok so the simlink is missing in the data/files folder in openwrt it seems
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: 4 wires because the thing on the other end needs only 4 connections.
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: ok :) , your thing your rules , If I had the tools/knowledge I would had wired the all thing to have a more versatile thing, but I supouse you can do another one if you need it so... wathever I like it a lot :)
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: also, the arrangement on the other side is GND-VDD-Data-Data, (safe against polarity inversion) so I'd have to somehow rearrange the clock line that's between GND and VDD. thus, an 8-line variant wouldn't be quite generic anyway. better keep it simple :)
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul, thy symbolic should done by openwrt by default.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: (make another one) exactly. it's easy and fun ;-)
<xiangfu>
wolfspraul, ok about 2010-09-14 image.
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: if not?..
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: by default in the build process?
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul yes
<kristianpaul>
hm
<kristianpaul>
what it could miss
<kristianpaul>
i remenber i did the symbolic link fot the files folder.
<kristianpaul>
wel..
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: btw, how is the sdio-to-serial board coming along ? did you have any time for it ?
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: just for curiosity, what are the software/hardwrare tools you have used to do this? I would love to see a video of the whole proccess, with that simple thing as example.
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: this saturday I go to a hack meeting in Zgz, after the speach at morning, I have reserved the whole day to hack on spi
<tuxbrain>
I hope I can return with some results
<wolfspraul>
I have more or less completed my work on the 11/1 community news, trying to collect what I could find
<wolfspraul>
xiangfu: tuxbrain : can you announce/push that feed url on your blogs?
<wolfspraul>
we need to get a few more people to add it to their feeds, otherwise we have great news but no readers :-)
<wolfspraul>
of course anybody else here who has a blog can help too
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: i cut the boards with my CNC mill (the one that also does the scans). i used toner transfer to copy the layout on the board and then etched it with 2 H2Os + HCl.
<xiangfu>
05:48 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: i cut the boards with my CNC mill (the one that also does the scans). i used toner transfer to copy the layout on the board and then etched it with 2 H2Os + HCl.
<tuxbrain>
the cnc was a profesional one or DIY
<xiangfu>
sorry. wrong "ENTER"
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: for the cable, i used one of these cable peeling machines, to get a straight cut. (i normally use a pincer-like tool, but that one does only one cable at a time) lemme see if i can find a picture ...
<xiangfu>
workspace , yes sure.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: (cnc) it's my roland mdx-15. comes ready to use out of the box.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: diy may be cheaper and more flexible, though.
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: the thing is make it accurate :)
<tuxbrain>
as long term project we are triying to equip us with tools to achive make our own prototipe pcbs
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: then i superglued the cable on the board, let it dry a bit, and then soldered the contacts. the glue holds everything nicely in place, so the soldering is easy. you don't even need to tin the cables first. i did pre-tin the board, though. i now always do this, because it also protects the traces from corrosion.
<kristianpaul>
what are you guys doing? (sounds really interesting)
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: interesting... how is done the procces of pre-tin?
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: last but not least, i taped the boards down with painter's tape and put a bit of silicone on the cable and non-contact areas. shaped it manually (put a bit of alcohol on the finger and it won't stick)
<tuxbrain>
after this, we will go to the cnc
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: it's just a little pair of boards for in-circuit programming of c8051f32x chips, connected to the ben's uSD port
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: (have in-house prototyping facilities) yes, that's a very good idea :) you're so much more in control of things if you don't need to outsource every little task. and you save time as well.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: (tinning) just apply flux to the whole board, put a bit of tin on a large pad, and "paint" it with the soldering iron over the entire board.
<tuxbrain>
jluis: yeah I know, I have call them this morning , hehehe we don't need to make arrested to go to prison... we go there voluntaring :)
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: if course, it helps if your boards are small (which mine generally are ;-)
<tuxbrain>
mmm this is after the acid treatment isn't it?
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: for the flux, i'd recommend water-soluble. it's the easiest to get rid of. RA flux is a sticky nightmare. no-clean flux is more difficult to wash off than water soluble. you could of course leave no-clean on the board, but your board will look messy and the flux is also a weak conductor, so there could be surprises.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: yes, tinning is after the etching
<tuxbrain>
lekernel: what is the fun cube satellite? and what it does?
<lekernel>
it's for AMSAT (amateur radio satellites)
<lekernel>
check out that keyword
<lekernel>
they've been operating since a few years after Sputnik, which is a lot more impressive to me that this OSSI (that "DIY/arduino/designer" satellite) crap
<wpwrak>
lekernel: nice board ! haven't gotten myself to work with stencils yet.
<lekernel>
dunno if you've seen OSSI... it's just one more of those crappy arduinesque things
<lekernel>
it has some buzz which is simply ridiculous, amateur radios have been _doing_ their "revolution" for decades already
<tuxbrain>
wow, DIY satellites, I don't know this thing even exist :), and they say they are near to launch one soon!
<lekernel>
they already launched a lot
<wolfspraul>
lekernel: wow nice blog! I'll add it to our planet... do you know the license of their work?
<tuxbrain>
mmmm how? from where? who? for what? wow
<lekernel>
only they _do_ things and don't talk much, so they are drown in the twitteresque/arduinesque noise
<lekernel>
hamradios do a lot of interesting stuff
<lekernel>
it's much better than the DIY yuppies
<tuxbrain>
lekernel: common don't be so hard of with the EE wannabies like me :P
<wpwrak>
lekernel and arduino will feature in La Haine II ;-)
<wolfspraul>
lekernel: if you know more such blogs please let me know I am very interested in collecting them in our planet
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: that's the spirit ! "_our_ planet" ! world domination ! ;-)
<tuxbrain>
lekernel: I agree in dismmiss all those that prettend to sell arduino as the definitive solution for electronics , but I compare it to duct tape, usefull to do patches and quick prototiping , but not for a pro use,
<lekernel>
it's merely an AVR, which is perfectly suitable for professional use
<wolfspraul>
definitive solution for electronics :-) that hurts even me...
<wolfspraul>
yes it's an AVR breakout board
<tuxbrain>
hey they exist, I have talked to them
<tuxbrain>
In every places are fanboys
<wolfspraul>
lekernel: do you know the license of the funcube stuff? I googled a bit but can't find anything
<wolfspraul>
just lazy to search more if you already know it :-)
<lekernel>
can't find it either
<tuxbrain>
and bigger is the community more tendency to that conduct in his users is.
<lekernel>
hamradios aren't usually open source fanatics either, though most of what they do often respects the same principles
<tuxbrain>
btw wolfgang great news recopilation  , all toghether look preety good (now in right channel)
<wolfspraul>
tuxbrain: thanks, quite a bit of work but I'm happy now
<wolfspraul>
this also serves as our own reference later
<wolfspraul>
the news are now showing on the qi homepage, they are in the rss/atom feed, they can be edited by anyone and published by all wiki admins, etc.
<wolfspraul>
so now I can go promote the feed URL, talk to journalists
<tuxbrain>
indeed :)
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: are the 1000 still waiting in the warehouse or have you already shipped some ?
<tuxbrain>
december release also looks promising
<wolfspraul>
hmm don't know
<wolfspraul>
he :-)
<wolfspraul>
maybe we have started to slowly sell into those 1000
<tuxbrain>
I have a 50 slice of that pie pending to order soon
<wolfspraul>
tuxbrain has an order of 50 but he's a bit slow :-)
<tuxbrain>
common :)
<wolfspraul>
ok ok
<wolfspraul>
my beloved customer has exactly the right speed
<tuxbrain>
thats better :)
<tuxbrain>
but yes, I sorry you know that bank stuff is killing me
<wolfspraul>
step by step
<wolfspraul>
I am trying to switch my payment gateway to a (hopefully) better one, and I'm literally 4 months into the paperwork now
<wolfspraul>
in the end we all believe we are building a business infrastructure that helps us in the future... hopefully...
<tuxbrain>
Today I have the sign of contracts and oh! suprise a mistake in numbers!!! coool on week delay again :(
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: (insoladora) wow. but what does it do ? :)
<wolfspraul>
I think it fits very well thanks a lot for the link. if you have more stuff like this please post it...
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: typo at the very end s/fedore/Fedora/
<wolfspraul>
I hope these guys don't mind syndication, it's pretty standard accepted for such blogs nowadays but who knows, if you say they are not that much into free maybe.
<wolfspraul>
well if they don't like it I'll remove the feed of course
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: yes, but what are they for ? do you need a tan ? ;-) for making pcbs, toner transfer i much simpler
<wpwrak>
s/ i / is /
<tuxbrain>
wolfspraul: no don't do it, they can be the perfect excuse to start our sue saga :P
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: thanks, fixed [fedore]
<wolfspraul>
I think the FEL people write 'fedora' lowercase btw
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: (news) how about a box with links to the main sections, like on wikis ?
<wolfspraul>
I removed the toc, should I add it back?
<wolfspraul>
check it now
<wpwrak>
(fedora) ah, indeed. so is it fEL then ? :)
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: well I don't know wat pcb you use but here the more comon and cheap are the ones fotosensible , you use tonner transfeer or transparence sheets , irradiate for a while and then acid treatement....
<wpwrak>
a toc seems nice. gives one a bit an idea what to expect. also helps if you want to look up something later.
<wolfspraul>
toc added back in
<wolfspraul>
I think I will remove the 'plans for the future' section
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: hmm, toner transfer works like this: you print with a laser printer on plastified paper, the kind you use for photo prints with ink printers.
<wolfspraul>
I was excited about boom at the time, but the news is already overloaded.
<wolfspraul>
once boom is ready, it's time to show up in the news
<wolfspraul>
gone. if someone wants it back, or add their own world domination plans, go ahead revert the change.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: when you iron the toner directly on the PCB (or, if you're lazy like me, you use a "plastificadora" .. hmm, what's this in english ...
<wpwrak>
... a laminator). then wash it a bit to get rid of the goo that may come from the paper and off in the acid with it. no need for UV or photo development.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: this process if good enough even for fairly small things. IDBG, ben-wpan, etc.
<tuxbrain>
we are even lazyer, we will just put the piece of sheet in a cristal, put the pcb on top and push the button :)
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: (boom deferred) yeah, no rush with that :)
<tuxbrain>
I must leave
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: ah well, whatever works :)
<tuxbrain>
see you later :)
<wpwrak>
(mm1 measurements) nice work ! and nice scope :)
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: news look pretty good. the pictures sometimes disrupt the flow a bit, but i wouldn't know how to make this better either.
<wolfspraul>
I think strong pictures will always do that though.
<wolfspraul>
one problem is the big scope of the news, so you have to slow down your mind if you want to actually understand what is written.
<wolfspraul>
well if anybody wants to edit the news for readability, just go ahead
<wolfspraul>
there are enough facts there at least, I did that homework collecting facts and URLs
<wolfspraul>
and some generally usable pics and videos I think
<wolfspraul>
I won't do many edits anymore, I had enough :-) will spend the next few days promoting the feed URL instead, so hopefully when it's released (and for future news), we have more readers
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: (pics) it's not so much about the content but about the visual structure. e.g., the RSS newsfeed item after the bootscreen is very easy to overlook
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: and the schhist screenshot almost hides the text above it :)
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: maybe putting the 1000 NNs first and schhist last would help. that way, the first picture isn't so huge and there would be nothing directly after the huge schhist screenshot
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: another possibility would be to shrink the schdiff picture and link to a larger version, but that would make it inconvenient to access. for getting an idea of what it is about, your reduced screenshot has just the right size.
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: how about now? :-)
<wolfspraul>
oh sure that screenshot is already heavily 'massaged'
<wolfspraul>
I cut rows and columns at will just to get the impression across in around 1000px width
<wpwrak>
(massaged) i didn't think it was easy ;-)
<wolfspraul>
I have the rss thing at the top now in italics
<wpwrak>
hmm, the RSS thingy is still easy to overlook. it's an area where wikipedia normally puts meta-information "(redirected from furble)" and such
<wpwrak>
but at least it's not lost in space anymore :)
<wpwrak>
(overlook) well, perhaps that's just me :)
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: have you ever seen manufacturer or distributor part numbers being case sensitive? or using characters outside of a-z, 0-9, '-', what else?
<wolfspraul>
does boom make any assumptions about it? I think spaces have to be enclosed in quotes, but are otherwise supported?
<wolfspraul>
how about case sensitivity?
<wpwrak>
part numbers very often are just upper case. but some do have weird characters
<wolfspraul>
arquebus: yes you are not alone. how can we help?
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: boom only cares about whitespace. whatever you do between whitespace is your business. there's currently no way to escape whitespace.
<B_Lizzard>
There's no .config in the 2.6.36 branch
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: ah, did i mention that the small atmels (the kind that would be ideal for the serial board) are a little difficult to source ? digi-key only have the atmega48 in an 28qfn package.
<qbject>
wpwrak: that thing on Atmel's site about license termination is pretty spooky. think that means that the could pull the plug on one of their binary blob libraries and you'd have to comply?
<qbject>
(from you and wolfie talking in here on 9-1)
<wpwrak>
qbject: well, i don't think we use any binary blob libraries. they could ask us to destroy all data sheets, though. not sure if this would have any legal standing, though.
<qbject>
wpwrak: I was all excited to make a QTouch/AVR keyboard on a nice heavy piece of FR4. I am less excited about it now.
<qbject>
Because the QTouch lib is a blob based on a patent they acquired.
<wpwrak>
qbject: what does happen from time to time is that a company stops distributing previously publicly available material. but i've never heard of one asking their customers to destroy the documentation they already obtained.
<wpwrak>
qbject: just say "no" to closed-source software :)
<qbject>
wpwrak: Oh, I do. I do. Did you hear that Fruity Computers from Cupertino will now have their own horrible censored app store?
<wpwrak>
qbject: hmm ? did they ever have one that wasn't censored ? :)
<wpwrak>
whee, mirko, back from the dead ! :)
<qbject>
wpwrak: No, they didn't, but I mean they're setting one up for the desktops and laptops themselves, not just embedded devices.
<qbject>
throws up just thinking about it.
<wpwrak>
qbject: well, never change a winning team, eh ? ;-)
<qbject>
I used to be one of those fanboys. I was gonna build a hackintosh but found it easier to install CrunchBang Linux, and it was all downhill from there.
<wpwrak>
qbject: as long as there are enough gullible who buy their stuff ...
<qbject>
wpwrak: I guess not. I've just gotta wonder if this is how ol' Stevie wanted it all along. "Free people from their preconceptions so that we can imprision them in a whole new set of preconceptions that benefit US."
<wpwrak>
qbject: (go to linux) good move ! ;-)
<qbject>
wpwrak: It'll be even better when they finish the move from Ubuntu repos to pure Debian.
<wpwrak>
qbject: i've heard that he's a control freak. so, obviously, anybody else's control bothers him :)
<jcom>
hi
<qbject>
Hi jcom
<jcom>
I've found a bug in the latest testing image of the ben nanonote
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: Don't call gpio_init in c2_init, so that we can do additional setup work before http://qi-hw.com/p/f32xbase/80a0152