<Maelan>
i would like to know better how to manage doc with ocaml-related stuff
<Maelan>
i am using opam
<Maelan>
but apparently opam packages do not come with their documentation
<Maelan>
so how am i supposed to obtain it, and where do i put it?
<Drup>
a good amount of packages install their .mli, which usually contains the documentation
<Drup>
other than that .. for now, it's on a per-package basis, there is a "doc" field in the opam package for a url
<Maelan>
for the first point, currently for doc i really want i just « git clone ; make doc ; rm -r project » (which looks really dumb to me since opam installs and compiles the whole stuff by itself, then i download and compile it again just to pick the doc)
<Drup>
some package defines instruction to compile the doc, but it's very rare
<Drup>
It will all be better when codoc arrives, but it's making itself desired :p
<Maelan>
*coming soon*
<Maelan>
is this intended to replace ocamldoc, or is it something else, a « doc manager » or something?
<Drup>
both
<Maelan>
so you would have the doc associated with your versions of your (opam) packages in your current switch?
<Drup>
yes
<Maelan>
sounds like utopia ^^
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<Maelan>
(i guess it has compatibility with ocamldoc, for all the existing material?)
<Drup>
yeah
<Maelan>
in the meantime, i still have to figure out where to put all those html files and man pages :<
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<Maelan>
i am tempted to put them all in ~/.opam/switch/{man,doc/package}/
<Drup>
that's .. actually where you are supposed to put them
<Maelan>
yes, but it does not sound good since those files are not handled by opam
<Drup>
just interogate the right opam variable
<Drup>
sure it is
<Drup>
opam will just nuke */<package> when your package is removed
<Maelan>
they are not updated when packages are upgraded or deleted
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<Maelan>
Drup, really? i often see opam warning that it will not remove a directory because it is not empty (and i always wonder if this is normal or if this is because of a file i added myself at some point)
<Drup>
I think so
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<seangrove>
Hey all, I'm trying to get a custom utop going, and hitting an error: "$ ocamlfind ocamlc -linkpkg src/mytop_main.ml -package threads,utop -o myutop -thread" - Reference to undefined global `Topfind'
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<seangrove>
Hrm, I thought adding the findlib package might take care of it, but doesn't seem to help
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<Gvidon>
Hi. I have another stupid basic question. Let's assume I have two record types with identical fields, how do I create an instance a given type? All this type inference thing is great, but what if I need to specify the type manually?
<fds>
let (x : foo) = ...
<fds>
Manual type annotations like that
<fds>
For example: type foo = {a : int} ;; type bar = {a : int} ;; let (x : foo) = {a = 3} ;;
<Gvidon>
Thanks!
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<reynir>
Maelan: FWIW opam install has --build-doc, but I don't think it's used by many packages
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<MercurialAlchemi>
because string concatenation sucks and composes badly
<flux>
companion_cube, yes, I've seen it
<flux>
it's nice but doesn't target other than sqlite yet?
<companion_cube>
in OCaml, I'm not sure anyone targets multiple DBs
<MercurialAlchemi>
it's just easy to end up with a system where you can't map the builder calls to the underlying SQL or where you can't write your query because the builder is not expressive enough
<companion_cube>
well it's hard to do this properly as a DSL, you need a way to express arbitrary binders, etc.
<MercurialAlchemi>
companion_cube: that looks terrible :(
<companion_cube>
really?
<MercurialAlchemi>
doesn't compose
<flux>
let's say I have a web page that display a list of fields
<flux>
but the user is able to add or remove fields from a given list, or set the sorting ascending/descending per any field
<companion_cube>
I still have no idea how you can compose SQL queries
<companion_cube>
like, with a sub-query?
<flux>
you have table, and you want to extract some fields from it. but the fields you want are dynamically selected.
<flux>
or perhaps you sometimes want to join it with another table, sometimes not
<flux>
or you build a query that can find the data the user has access to. but then you get an additional criteria, that you want to limit that to messages that starts with "a".
<companion_cube>
MercurialAlchemi: my little experience with ORM was in django, and the expressiveness was more limited than with proper SQL
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<flux>
the sql query you end up is going to be humongous that needs to consider each alternative, instead of just adding clauses to the where programmatically how you see fit
<companion_cube>
but I suppose ocaml-sqlexpr could return some kind of AST (rather than a query string)
<companion_cube>
a bit like what Re does for regex
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<MercurialAlchemi>
companion_cube: SQLAlchemy lets you do more or less everything you can do in raw SQL
<flux>
notice how the basically same query is there twice to the benefit of PGSQL.. :)
<MercurialAlchemi>
hm, tasty
<MercurialAlchemi>
when it gets fun is when you need to conditionally join additional tables
<flux>
yes, an irc url database must be one of the simplest databases
<MercurialAlchemi>
pretty much
<flux>
though I did my best to complicate it with the tagging and public/semipublic/private view systems.. :)
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<MercurialAlchemi>
when you have a small schema with 20-30 tables and somebody says "let's implement the 'advanced search' screen", the real fun starts
<flux>
many moons ago I implemented one in perl, there were of course much fewer pages
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<MercurialAlchemi>
yeah, but you feel less bad doing dirty things in Perl
<MercurialAlchemi>
but that's why solutions where the only goal is "build a syntactically correct query" and do not incorporate composability aren't worth considering
<MercurialAlchemi>
(especially if you only target a single database...)
<flux>
well, I think if you win the statical guarantees it's still worth considering I think
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<flux>
it's just so nice to use PGSQL and get compilation errors from your SQL queries, even when it has its limits
<flux>
if PGSQL just had compile-time string concatenation (macros), you could reduce a lot of duplication in the queries and get the same guarantees
<MercurialAlchemi>
no doubt, but not if it costs the ability to compose your queries at runtime
<flux>
of course as PGSQL is camlp4-based, the time might get pass it.. with ocaml-sqlexpr perhaps coming to the rescue, but I don't think it has similar functionality at all?
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<mfp>
flux: it has "early runtime" checks (which can be used in the unit tests and as sanity check on application startup). That is, it collects all the SQL statements and generates functions that validate them, catching syntax errors and schema inconsistencies.
<MercurialAlchemi>
mfp: WHAT DOES?
<flux>
mfp, right, forgot about that. yes, that's a nice feature.
<MercurialAlchemi>
M
<MercurialAlchemi>
grmbl
<mfp>
MercurialAlchemi: ocaml-sqlexpr
<MercurialAlchemi>
sorry about the accidental capslock
<flux>
mercurial got excited :)
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<flux>
mfp, in principle, there's no particular reason that ocaml-sqlexpr wouldn't work with other dbms, other than the code isn't there yet?
<mfp>
right, it's called sqlexpr and not sqlitexpr or something because there's no reason why there couldn't be other backends
<mfp>
however, the idea at the core or ocaml-sqlexpr is to give up on trying to represent relational algebra (I did it once and it was restrictive and a PITA to implement), and just use as little typing magic (and runtime support) as possible to make use of "raw SQL" palatable
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<mfp>
so it won't have "one stmt targets any DB" unless the SQL expression happens to be meaningful in all the DBs you target (no attempt to understand the statements, so no SQL dialect compensation)
<mfp>
if you want composability, there's macaque
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<MercurialAlchemi>
yeah, haven't tried dthat
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<flux>
I seem to recall trying to use macaque for something real, didn't get too far. but I don't recall what the issue was I was facing :/.
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<flux>
perhaps simply just INSERT INTO.. RETURNING.
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<flux>
no temporary tables either. needs quite a bit of love before it's the solution.
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<madroach>
I'm implementing a zlib wrapper. Now I'm wondering whether to use Gc.finalize or a custom block to trigger freeing of C heap data structures. When should I use which of them?
<def`>
I would choose the custom block
<def`>
This is the correct way to deal with foreign data structures.
<def`>
Gc.finalize is for OCaml blocks.
<def`>
(Note that foreign pointers in OCaml heap, not wrapped in a custom block are not recommended)
<flux>
madroach, zlib wrapper by itself is certainly nice in itself, but are you aware of decompress, a pure-ocaml zlib implementation?
<flux>
I suppose zlib is going to be faster, though
<def`>
flux: there already are zlib wrappes, I assume madroach as specific needs
<flux>
def`, which package has those?
<def`>
camlzip
<flux>
right, forgot about that
<def`>
(also my stb_* bindings include a zlib implementation, but it is not exposed to OCaml world)
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<madroach>
I want a wrapper that calls caml_release_runtime_system() so it can run in seperate thread in parallel to the ocaml world.
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<def`>
makes sense
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<def`>
if you release the runtime, be aware that your finalizer might run while you are in C-code
<def`>
you expose your code to race conditions.
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<madroach>
Not if hold onto the custom block via CAMLparamX() ?
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<def`>
True.
<madroach>
So I'm safe?
<def`>
It seems yes.
<def`>
(you ocaml code can still run other operations on the same context)
<def`>
your*
<madroach>
the same context?
<def`>
(but that's obvious when doing parallel stuff)
<madroach>
What do you mean by context?
<def`>
Another OCaml thread manipulating the same block
<def`>
By context, I referred to all zlib managed data
<def`>
input output buffers and codec context
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<Drup>
MercurialAlchemi: well, you can make it compose
<Drup>
see macaque
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<dario1>
Hallo everyone! Quick question: does flambda obsolete all "%identity" hacks?
<Drup>
I don't have knowledge of any %identity hack that was ever useful
<dario1>
They may have been just a placebo, but you can find them in many codebases...
<dario1>
Should someone write a "%identity considered harmful"?
<flux>
many modules seem to use them, per a grep in my .opam directory
<flux>
ie. ocisgenserver..
<flux>
oh, but that was mostly useless, external id : 'a -> 'a = "%identity", but still maybe faster than let id a = a ?
<dario1>
I've used them in the past, also. I think some OCaml tutorial advised in favour of them.
<Drup>
well, except that you can trigger a segfault, or something even more surprising, if you give the wrong type
<flux>
so I guess the question is relevant :)
<Drup>
just to get a non measurable improvement in performances
<flux>
other uses: uCoreLib.mli: external code : t -> int = "%identity" batInt.mli: external of_int : int -> t = "%identity"
<flux>
but whatever immeasuramble improvement, is that obsoleted by flambda?
<Drup>
I guess ? it will be inlined
<def`>
the hack is useful only for bytecode backend
<Drup>
(pretty sure it was inlined anyway ...)
<def`>
native backend already inlines that as Drup said
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<Drup>
and jsoo would inline that too
<def`>
and bytecode backend doesn't benefit from flambda so... statu quo
<dario1>
Alright, thanks for the info. I guess the message must get out that "%identity" is not worth it!
<Drup>
well, it's equally worth it than Obj.magic
<Drup>
:D
<flux>
well, I suppose nobody reaally cares that much about bytecode performance, so it's really obsolete to begin with
<dario1>
Btw, is 4.03 still scheduled for this year?
<def`>
yes
<flux>
with multicore? no?-((((
<flux>
;)
<dario1>
Great! I have lots of code that relies heavily on functors. I'm curious to see the speedup.
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<flux>
just checked a few days back the branches.. some activity there!
<flux>
dario1, the branch is easily available already if you use opam
<flux>
so if you have an itch to compare.. ;)
<dario1>
Yes, but is it stable and usable?
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<flux>
well stable enough for performance testing?
<flux>
if not for daily use (though it might even be that stable)
<dario1>
I'd rather wait for 4.03-beta1 to start testing...
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<Drup>
in order to add a location for those, the best is probably to do it like that: [%expr ...] [@metaloc myloc]
<j0sh>
ah, didn't realize we could add locs to those. let's see
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<rks`>
you can also just add [@@@metaloc loc] at the toplevel
<rks`>
(and then you don't need the [@metaloc ...] everywhere, iiuc)
<j0sh>
rks`: noticed that in the docs, but haven't been able to do that with a file (not in the toplevel)
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<j0sh>
Drup: should I add metalocs to every [%expr ...] or just the one(s) that fix the error messages?
<j0sh>
doing it to all of them seems messy
<j0sh>
and does't always seem necessary
<Drup>
you should do it for all of them
<Drup>
Having pieces of parsetree without locations is a good method to confuse the compiler and the tooling
<j0sh>
there are dozens of them, it'd be pretty noisy (maybe that says more about how i'm using ppx)
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<zozozo>
quick question: what would be the syntax to declare a function f of type "(forall 'a. 'a -> 'a) -> unit" ?
<Drup>
let f _ = () :D
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<zozozo>
not exaclty, with your defintion, f will accept anything
<Drup>
it can, in particular, have the type you mentionned
<thizanne>
I don't think you can with the forall inside the parentheses
<def`>
yep, you'll have to wrap in a record or an object
<zozozo>
ok, thanks
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<Drup>
type t = { f : 'a . 'a -> 'a } ;;
<Drup>
let foo { f } = let _ = f () in () ;;
<Drup>
that's the syntax
<zozozo>
Drup: thx
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<NingaLeaf>
Does utop work on OSX? Fatal error: cannot load shared library dlllwt-unix_stubs.
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<j0sh>
Drup: found a nice solution: Ast_helper.with_default_loc
<j0sh>
removes the need for sprinkling metalocs everywhere, and Ast_convenience can used as well (since most of the convenience functions do not take location information)
<Drup>
yeah
<Drup>
I consider that an anti pattern, when ppx are concerned
<Drup>
you should be explicit about your locations, they are important
<j0sh>
really? even when explicitly scoping the global location with with_default_loc ?
<Drup>
Usually, yes
<Drup>
for a local scope, inside a function, it's okay
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<Drup>
but it's still a reference that you will forget you set, so meh
<j0sh>
in this case, the location isn't changing at all, so I don't see the harm... set it once and forget
<Drup>
right, you treat your big sql string as non divisible.
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<Maelan>
is there a means of making utop more quiet?
<Maelan>
i already changed the prompt, now i would like to customize or disable the greeting messages (the big coloured framed title and the greeting from topfind)
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<tane>
hej there
<tane>
is there some way to make Oasis produce a makefile that actually depends on it's own setup.ml in each target, so that oasis setup is run before executing a target to reflect recent changes in the _oasis file?
<tane>
(similar to what CMake does)
<Maelan>
annex question: is it possible to tell the default repl not to read utop-related stuff in .ocamlinit (an #if directive or something)?
<Maelan>
that would avoid getting errors because of unknown module UTop or directive #utop_prompt_*