adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.02.3 announced http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<orbifx> laters all
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<jackweirdy> Quick question - I'm moving from a Makefile to Oasis. I previously had to specify -use-menhir in the ocamlbuild cli, and I can't figure out how to do that with Oasis. The only way I've got it to work is by putting "true: use_menhir" in my _tags file, but that gets overwritten by a call to "oasis setup". Is Oasis menhir-aware in the same way ocamlbuild is?
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<flux> jackweirdy, didn't oasis have a way to preserve part of the _tags -file?
<jackweirdy> Having a Google around for that now, I can't find anything in the docs about it
<flux> jackweirdy, ie. did you try putting it after or before the OASIS_STOP/OASIS_START?
<jackweirdy> Oh good shout, I'll try that
<flux> I think the comment almost literally says that.. ;)
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<jackweirdy> I saw DO NOT EDIT and panicked :P
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<jackweirdy> So I added specific stuff to _tags but managed to not commit the Oasis stuff by adding this to my filter.gitignore.clean: sed '/OASIS_START/,/OASIS_STOP/d'
<jackweirdy> Hopefully that might be useful to someone else some time!
<MercurialAlchemi> I have to admit that occasionally the JS community gets it right
<Drup> Oh ?
<MercurialAlchemi> npm install --save-dev $package installs $package AND saves to your local package.json as a build dependency
<MercurialAlchemi> that's pretty nice
<flux> yeah, when does opam get that!
<flux> mercurialalchemi, masterful way to troll for new opam features ;-)
<MercurialAlchemi> thanks, been working on one for a while :p
<MercurialAlchemi> (way of trolling, not feature)
<flux> it's also sort of nice how npm is able to install dependencies just locally (beneat the project root tree)
<flux> but I guess that'd be a quite a bit more work to implement
<MercurialAlchemi> well, I don't care much about that, opam switch for the people
<flux> I wouldn't maybe care otherwise, but I have this one library that uses old 1.x version of toml because it hasn't bothered to update to the 2.x interface yet
<MercurialAlchemi> I think the problem for the --save-dev feature for opam is that you'd need it to update your oasis file too
<MercurialAlchemi> *cough*
* MercurialAlchemi whistles
<flux> and basically I need to globally reinstall the appropriate toml version when I change the project
<MercurialAlchemi> well, as co-maintainer, I'd say the new interface is not really the new black :)
<Drup> it certainly isn't :]
<MercurialAlchemi> think I'll publish the version compatible with the latest toml version this weekend before working on a new interface
<MercurialAlchemi> which will look a lot closer to toml v1
<MercurialAlchemi> anyway
<MercurialAlchemi> I don't understand why you need to install anything globally
<flux> well, if it looked exactly like v1 I wouldn't need to update anything.. :-)
<flux> mercurialalchemi, globally as in my 'local global' opam installation
<flux> compareed to locally as in 'for this project'
<MercurialAlchemi> hmm
<flux> unless I would have separate opam switch for it or something
<MercurialAlchemi> I have separate opam switches for all my projects
<MercurialAlchemi> plus a "tools" switch for merlin/utop
<MercurialAlchemi> the only thing annoying about it is that you need to use the same compiler, otherwise merlin/utop throw a fit
<Drup> yeah, that's why I dont' have a tool switch, and instead I use user-setup, which figures out where to fine a merlin that works
<Drup> (and I also have a "stable" switch with no pin and only stable versions, to answer questions
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<companion_cube> wow, there's a sudden vortex of activity on batteries :)
<Drup> "vortex" :D
<Kakadu> Does anybody remember some camlp5 extension which converts expression to plain string?
* MercurialAlchemi looks at user-setup
<MercurialAlchemi> looks interesting
<Kakadu> maybe coq has something like that........
<Drup> Kakadu: I don't know, but you can do it with ppx_tools.metaquot
<Kakadu> Drup: I can't use ppx
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<Kakadu> okay, I found workaround
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<toolslive> I have a ppx deriving yojson problem: for 4.02.1 I need to write: type x_4_02_1 = | X [@name "X"] of string [@@deriving yojson] but for 4.02.3 I need to write: type x_4_02_3 = | X of string [@name "X"] [@@ deriving yojson] is there a way to phrase it that works with both compilers?
<octachron> you could use another preprocessor like cppo
<Drup> toolslive: just drop 4.02.1
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<toolslive> what if dropping 4.02.1 isn't an option for now?
<Drup> then cppo :/
<toolslive> that kinda sucks.
<toolslive> but thx for the suggestion.
<theblatte> ocaml upgrades deployment kinda sucks
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<toolslive> how do I add cppo to my ocamlbuild toolchain? (any examples?)
<companion_cube> I think there is an ocamlbuild plugin
<companion_cube> https://github.com/c-cube/ocaml-containers/blob/master/myocamlbuild.ml <-- done manually, but there should be a better way now
<Drup> companion_cube: there was always a better way, with >=4.01
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<companion_cube> yes
<companion_cube> but I can't use it yet, before you grumble
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<toolslive> thx!
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<python476> guys, who read Harper's PFPL here ?
<ely-se> python476: some chapters
<ely-se> of the preview, not the final book
<python476> that's what I have under my tab :)
<ely-se> I read chapters 11, 12, 17, 18, and 28.
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<sgeisenh> I've read the whole thing! The first edition preview is currently more up to date than the print version.
<python476> hi back
<python476> I'm starting reading pfpl
<python476> I was discussing the possibility of using this kind of thinking early on programming classes
<python476> on a scale from 0 to 10, how crazy would this be ?
<sgeisenh> 10
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<sgeisenh> you want to be somewhat ignorant while wading through the mud
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<GooseYArd> "we'll begin with electrons..."
<python476> denotations are so cute
<python476> I missed them even before I knew them
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<sgeisenh> python476: I have no clue what your background is, but it might be helpful to read through https://www.andrew.cmu.edu/course/15-317/ or something similar before digging in to PFPL
<python476> thanks sgeisenh , never found that course
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<ollehar> a quesiton: when I go from untyped ast to typed ast, somethings are not yet decided.
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<ollehar> so I need some typed to be ref, so I can update them along the way.
<ollehar> I this weird? or inevitable in global type-inference?
<Drup> it's mostly inevitable for efficiency
<ollehar> case in point: "struct"-like class in PHP:
<ollehar> final class Point { public $x; public $y }
<ollehar> must be used to determine types of x and y.
<ollehar> Drup: ok
<ollehar> yes, otherwise I would have to traverse more than once.
<ollehar> but when I come to code gen, if not all types are defined, then abort.
<Drup> if not all type are defined, your inference algorithm is wrong
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<ollehar> Drup: or code might be missing?
<ollehar> if the Point class is never used, the algorithm can't know.
<ollehar> or partially used.
<ollehar> but then the type doesn't matter either.
<Drup> Ah, well, that's what weak polymorphism is for
<ollehar> I will google that ^^
<Drup> it's '_a type variables
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<ollehar> Drup: decided at runtime?
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<def`> ollehar: type don't exist at runtime
<def`> decided at next use
<ollehar> def`: ah
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<def`> if other uses are in different modules, you must check they are consistent (or simply reject weak variables escape, as OCaml does)
<def`> (and if the variable is still weak after linking... your value is not used)
<ollehar> don't you have to instantiate the type more then once in that case? once for each use.
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<ollehar> if 'a' is weakly typed, 'a' must have a new type for each use.
<ollehar> hm
<def`> no
<def`> it's not "weakly typed", it's a weak type variable
<def`> or maybe we are not talking about the same thing... what weakly typed even means?
<ollehar> uh...
<ollehar> hm
<ollehar> can't a variable be weakly typed?
<ollehar> (not type variable, regular variable)
<def`> if you have a definition for weakly typed, maybe
<def`> just define your terminology first :)
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<ollehar> wait: a weak type variable is a type variable that gets defined at its first use-case?
<def`> in hindley-milner, if a, a variable, has a polymorphic type, then it is specialized, this use site reveives a fresh instance of its type
<ollehar> '_a ~~ "to be resolved"
<def`> yes
<def`> which is different from 'a
<ollehar> yes
<ollehar> because 'a ~~ "any type"
<def`> 'a implies there is a universal quantifier before
<def`> which cen be instanciated to any type yes
<ollehar> ok
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<ollehar> and weak polymorphism can easily be implemented by using a ref variable in the typed ast?
<def`> it could be done this way yes
<ollehar> then I'm good to go! thanks! :)
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<edwin> would it make sense to try and translate this to OCaml? http://okmij.org/ftp/Computation/free-monad.html . Or with the upcoming algebraic effects writing/using monads won't be needed that often anymore?
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<hath> Could anyone help me figure out how to correctly set up my _oasis file and directory structure? https://gist.github.com/hath995/3229d5bdae23cea8c76b I'm new to ocaml. I took a shot at it but it is throwing Error: Unbound module.
<hath> Just trying to setup test and run them on a toy package. followed this guide https://ocaml.org/learn/tutorials/setting_up_with_oasis.html#Tests
<Leonidas> hath: what's with all the ;;?
<Leonidas> hath: can you post a git repo to clone directly?
<hath> idk, ocaml mooc code
<hath> sure
<python476> hath: you're enrolled in fun56002 ?
<Leonidas> you *never* need ;; in any code, that's only useful in the toplevel
<hath> ah ok
<python476> Leonidas: if it's this MOOC, the environment is an online persistent toplevel, it's easy to get confused
<hath> I'm escaping the online environment to try out the test librarires
<hath> so now I get to deal with build issues.
<hath> python476: yeah
<python476> hath: you did all the assignement in a separate ocaml project ?
<hath> no I did the rest online
<python476> ok
<python476> Interesting, I might copy the idea
<hath> this one seemed interesting to try out test driven development on
<Leonidas> hath: ok, let me take a look
<hath> thanks
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<Leonidas> hath: it compiles for me ;-)