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<rapha> ouch. the 4.0V battery leaves the phone stone cold. i'm certain i've plus and minus right, so perhaps the BCI is incompatible or something...
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<Joerg-Neo900> yes, contact springs could be bent
<Joerg-Neo900> not unheard of
<Joerg-Neo900> you could use a needle to bend close them again
<Joerg-Neo900> they are *supposed* to not touch each other when you push them to either side
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<Joerg-Neo900> so you can put a needle to left side of the "U" shaped spring and push to the right until the both ends of the U touch each other
<rapha> i don't think it's that
<rapha> the battery has cables soldered onto it which i've connected to the terminal that i've removed from the original battery
<rapha> and the contact springs on that terminal seem fine
<Joerg-Neo900> it _could_ be BSI, should be 70 to 90k Ohm to GND
<rapha> okay
<rapha> well, charging up an old Nokia 1200 battery now
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<Joerg-Neo900> BSI needs to fit
<rapha> 4V, correctly poled, will not damage the phone, will they? (+.3 more than it's rated for...)
<Joerg-Neo900> otherwise the device will shut down *immediately*
<Joerg-Neo900> no, it's 'rated' for up to 4.2
<Joerg-Neo900> 3.7 is nomunal LiIon voltage
<Joerg-Neo900> nominal*
<Joerg-Neo900> not maximum
<rapha> that's a relief :)
<Joerg-Neo900> you'll notice the BSI blade contact is 0.5mm shorter, so device detects battery removal before power loss
<rapha> oh
<Joerg-Neo900> hehe
<rapha> samsung BSI is 1.5kOhm only
<rapha> would explain it not turning on
<Joerg-Neo900> yes
<Joerg-Neo900> you should use the original NL-5J resistor when you already disassembled the battery
<rapha> i didn't disable the other batteries
<Joerg-Neo900> BL*
<rapha> well, can do that, too while i'm at it
<Joerg-Neo900> or an arbitrary ~80kR
<rapha> the original resistor is a bit small indeed
<Joerg-Neo900> oooh you connected them in parallel?? :-O
<Joerg-Neo900> that's pretty dangerous particularly when one is charged and the other isn't
<rapha> ur no
<Joerg-Neo900> once they are connected it's mostly ok if they are still not gone up into flames
<rapha> i removed the terminal from the original battery
<rapha> so it's just the blade contacts with a bit of plastic now
<rapha> and i soldered cables to the back of the blades
<Joerg-Neo900> you lost me. but whatever you do, you need correct BSI resistor
<rapha> mmm
<rapha> so the original battery
<Joerg-Neo900> since without it the device shuts down in milliseconds
<rapha> it has a bit of black plastic at its top, with the contact blades in that plastic
<rapha> i removed that plastic *with* the blades and the electronics board in it
<Joerg-Neo900> the electronics board has the protective circuit
<rapha> then i cut the PCB in half as well
<rapha> because i wanted _just_ the contact blades
<rapha> btw none of the components is an 80 kOhm resistor
<rapha> the Nokia 1200 has 46 kOhm BSI
<rapha> the black thing right of the screw in that pic?
<Joerg-Neo900> actually the first URL is a pic of a jolla battery
<rapha> ah
<rapha> in the second pic is see an N900 battery with its three contact blades
<Joerg-Neo900> it however shows the protective circuit PCB
<Joerg-Neo900> yes, those are somewhat good springs, they must not be more open than that
<Joerg-Neo900> actually they should be even more closed (tips of U closer to each other)
<rapha> okay so going with the theory that that is the problem, let me try to get them closer together
<rapha> LiPo charging now (if it is indeed a LiPO)
* rapha is having fun manually charging all kinds of batteries
<rapha> hah! finally got the contact springs out of the plastic enclosure!
<rapha> much easier to manipulate now...
<Joerg-Neo900> make damn sure you don't mix up the contacts, check for the shorter BSI blade!
<Joerg-Neo900> center is GND
<rapha> i made the + cable a red one
<Joerg-Neo900> if you swap + and GND this *will* fry the N900 for good
<rapha> yeah i figured
<rapha> + is the one further towards the outside of the phone though; easy to remember
<rapha> but tbh my contact blades all look the same length
<rapha> (BSI is the one furthest to the N900's center, right?)
<Joerg-Neo900> no they don't :-)
<Joerg-Neo900> yes
<rapha> hmm
<rapha> okay bad eyesight then o_O
<Joerg-Neo900> it's 0.5mm
<Joerg-Neo900> you can tell when you push a credit card or sth like that to all three contacts
<rapha> ah yes now i see
<rapha> hmm i think + might have been touching the battery compartment's aluminum casing
<Joerg-Neo900> when you've seen it once, you always will notice
<Joerg-Neo900> OUCH
<rapha> yup
<Joerg-Neo900> this might be fatal
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<rapha> hah!
<rapha> but it wasnt!!!
<rapha> got nokia logo, backlight, vibrator
<Joerg-Neo900> great! :-)
<rapha> the little Nokia 1200 battery is doing it!
<Joerg-Neo900> http://wstaw.org/m/2016/11/17/plasma-desktopVX2244.png was my answer to "why fatal"
<rapha> (and the battery compartment is protected by isolation tape now)
<rapha> BGND is battery compartment ground?
<Joerg-Neo900> pointing to R1129 R1130
<Joerg-Neo900> I don't know what BGND is, I'm pretty sure it's NOT compartment steel
<rapha> aluminum, if anything :-P
<rapha> hmm and you think these resistors would fry from 4V?
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<Joerg-Neo900> yes
<Joerg-Neo900> they are 0.01Ohm each
<rapha> but they're not diodes or anything else sensitive to polarisation, they're resistors? *sratches head*
<Joerg-Neo900> do the math
<rapha> depends on how they're built then i guess, but probably one of these tiny SMD thingy casings
<Joerg-Neo900> when you feed +4V@5A peak to GND and battery GND to upper end of those resistors
<rapha> okay, 5A is massive
<Joerg-Neo900> (I'm obviously assuming the metal battery bay is connected to GND, not BGND)
* rapha gets some more isolating tape
<Joerg-Neo900> another thing to learn here: battery minus is not really good GND level for anything
<Joerg-Neo900> e.g. when you want to fuzz with charging or testing, via the testpoints in battery bay
<rapha> you mean even battery minus could have a large enough potential towards true ground in terms of damage it could do?
<Joerg-Neo900> not re damage, but re proper working of whatever you plan to do via those testpoints
<Joerg-Neo900> particularly battery charging via VBUS testpoint would completely disable the BQ27200 battery gauge when you use battery minus instead proper device GND
<rapha> the test points are the things under these two sort of slits in the bat compartment steel?
<Joerg-Neo900> (bq27200 is what those logs I linked to came from)
<Joerg-Neo900> yes
<Joerg-Neo900> three actually, the tiny one with 2 dots is USB D+ D-
<rapha> amazing ... up until now i always took stuff like this to be something people forgot, or some sort of art or something o_O
<Joerg-Neo900> the iirc upper left one in the long slots is USB VBUS
<rapha> are you keeping all of this stuff intact on the NeoN board?
<Joerg-Neo900> nope, not the test points
<Joerg-Neo900> they at very least will change function
<Joerg-Neo900> many of the N900 testpoints are meaningless in Neo900
<rapha> oic
<rapha> well USB might be handy still?
<Joerg-Neo900> we got USB on hackerbus :-D
<Joerg-Neo900> so absolutely no need for it on testpoints
<Joerg-Neo900> ~hb
<rapha> oops
<Joerg-Neo900> hehe nice
<rapha> well that looks much more powerful :-D
* rapha can even put the lid back on
<rapha> okay, let's try the U thing again
<Joerg-Neo900> which is a good thing since it needs the magnet in lid to enable the uSD card
<rapha> crap i can't twist two cables together while holding such a tiny key down
<Joerg-Neo900> hehe
<Joerg-Neo900> maybe solder a switch to them?
<rapha> don't have a switch
<Joerg-Neo900> hehe
<rapha> ah!
<rapha> got two crocodile thingies
<rapha> YEEES! nokia logo, backlight, USB icon!!!
<rapha> and the lazyflash thingy was waiting in the background all this time lol
<Joerg-Neo900> hehe
<Joerg-Neo900> my beloved lazy flashing thingie
<Joerg-Neo900> so you're going to flash it right away now?
<Joerg-Neo900> I strongly suggest you do
<Joerg-Neo900> though... up to you
<rapha> well it started on its own, i was not going to interrupt it!
<Joerg-Neo900> good!
<rapha> it ran through and now the screen shows little dots and one moving left and right
<Joerg-Neo900> give it at least 5 minutes to completely set up after flashing
<rapha> but after a minute or so it turns off
<Joerg-Neo900> you may operate the lockswitch to wake up screen again, but don't shiut it down!
<Joerg-Neo900> neither remove power
<Joerg-Neo900> eventually the normal desktop should show when you unlock it
<Joerg-Neo900> then you can shut it down regularly
<rapha> hmm
<Joerg-Neo900> it's doing optification
<rapha> lockswitch does nothing
<Joerg-Neo900> and other stuff
<Joerg-Neo900> hmm then wait
<rapha> i had already long-pressed the power button again ... was that a mistake?
<Joerg-Neo900> it *might* still be busy, or it just went into a stall state
<Joerg-Neo900> yes
<rapha> (battery is stable @ 3.85V)
<rapha> hmm
<rapha> damn
<Joerg-Neo900> no problem, reboot and see if it boots normally. If it doesn't, do a reflash, you now know it's really paonless
<Joerg-Neo900> painless :-))
<rapha> k :)
<Joerg-Neo900> ~optification
<infobot> optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3"
<rapha> lol
<Joerg-Neo900> it's basically copying a lot of stuff from NAND 256MB storage to eMMC
<rapha> the messed-up ways of all linuxes on all mobile devices...
<Joerg-Neo900> and creating symlinks in /bin and /sbin instead
<rapha> oh oh the little battery is dropping dangerously close to 3.7
<Joerg-Neo900> a huge mess, and takes a while, and renders system borked when interrupted
<Joerg-Neo900> 3.7 is still fine
<Joerg-Neo900> and normal
<Joerg-Neo900> 3.5 is critical
<Joerg-Neo900> actually below 3.6 is
<rapha> now something funny happened after flashing
<rapha> i removed USB but not yet the battery and it already started rebooting
<Joerg-Neo900> that's how it normally should
<rapha> okay, so NOW remove the battery and reattach
<Joerg-Neo900> no please let it boot
<rapha> okay
<rapha> your instructions diverge from the lazyflash instructions here
<Joerg-Neo900> as explained above it copoes executables around during first boot after flashing
<rapha> and i really do think it's not doing anything because the battery is back up to 3.84V and the lockswitch is doing nothing
<Joerg-Neo900> hmm, anyway never interrupt first boot
<rapha> stupid question probably ... could this be because of no SIM card and no microSD card?
<Joerg-Neo900> well, when you push the power button *shortly* and you see the white LED dim up, then the device is really off
<Joerg-Neo900> do NOT push button longer than 1s
<rapha> nope, short push does nothing
<Joerg-Neo900> then it's still operating
<rapha> k, even though it's not taxing the battery?
<Joerg-Neo900> the backlight is off, and this is higest power hog
<Joerg-Neo900> hugest
<rapha> ah i forgot that
* rapha keeps staring at the 3.84V display in the multimeter
<Joerg-Neo900> give it a 5 minutes, the try lockswitch and if that doesn't do anything, remove battery
<rapha> k
<Joerg-Neo900> or before removing battery, try power button shirt and then long press
<Joerg-Neo900> if long press boots up the device, let it boot
<rapha> hmm
<rapha> i also told lazyflash to *not* flash homedir and mydocs
<Joerg-Neo900> that might fail
<rapha> okay, so might be a good idea to do it with that
<Joerg-Neo900> yes
<Joerg-Neo900> and: you NEVER can brick the N900, you really aöways can get it reflashed
<Joerg-Neo900> so don't worry
<rapha> :-)))
<Joerg-Neo900> *unless* USB jack broken, that is
<Joerg-Neo900> so be very very careful with the USB jack
<rapha> could re-solder that with proper equipment ... or does it break the PCB?
<Joerg-Neo900> ~usbfix
<infobot> hmm... usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater), or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYz5nIHH0iY#t=1866, you will basically need two irons: a small good one (or better hot-air reflow) and a 60+ Watt
<Joerg-Neo900> TL;DR: yes you can and should reinforce it
<Joerg-Neo900> ideally _before_ it breaks
<rapha> next project...
<rapha> just checked the LiPo ... only has a 12kOhm BSI
<Joerg-Neo900> I never broke an USB and I didn't reinforce the jacks of my N900s
<Joerg-Neo900> you *need* 80kR
<Joerg-Neo900> around
<Joerg-Neo900> or was it 90?
<rapha> i defy your notions: currently i only have 45!
<Joerg-Neo900> doesn't matter too much, but correct range is important
<Joerg-Neo900> 45k is closer to TEST battery than to normal one, it makes the system enter a very special state
<Joerg-Neo900> which might explain your strange boot behavior
<rapha> (would have been cool to have the LiPo piggybacked to the N900 with duct tape or something ... "wait, let me get out my home-improved phone which lasts a week or so on one charge")
<Joerg-Neo900> somebody did this with three 16450 or what the name of those monster cyclindric cells
<rapha> :)
<Joerg-Neo900> looked like a bomb
<rapha> hell my desk looks like i was building bombs
<rapha> add that to the fact that i'm doing an MA in Arabistics and Islamic studies and you have a winner :P
<Joerg-Neo900> hahaha
<Joerg-Neo900> hope you're not calling Trimp "Mr President" ;-)
<rapha> but hey if the NSA doesnt have a detailled profile of me i've been doing something wrong
<rapha> lol
<rapha> nope
<rapha> new behaviour: at end of flashing (this time typed "YES") the little funny dot froze before i could pull USB
<Joerg-Neo900> not like CIA wouldn't catch and kidnap people in Europe too
<rapha> i'm sure they've done that
<Joerg-Neo900> it's known they did
<rapha> the next couple of months are probably not going to be very funny
<Joerg-Neo900> e.g in italy
<rapha> :(
<rapha> "please remove battery, unplug USB, then reinsert battery and let device boot and init system which may take a while" <== what lazyflash says at the end
<Joerg-Neo900> I prolly have to rethink that instruction
<rapha> :]
<Joerg-Neo900> freezing dot that still shows anyway means it's still busy
<rapha> okay cool then i'll just let it sit like that during the night
<rapha> really tired
<Joerg-Neo900> it shouldn't take longer than 5 min, and I stringly recommend to shut the device down during night, until you're sure it starts charging the battery
<rapha> hmm okay
* rapha goes to find something to eat
<rapha> it's the last try for today in any case, the battery is getting weak
<Joerg-Neo900> how long since the dots shown?
<rapha> this try, only about 60 seconds now
<Joerg-Neo900> aah ok
<rapha> is it not trying to keep the battery charged through the USB port?
<Joerg-Neo900> what does it show?=
<rapha> frozen dot on position 2 of 5
<Joerg-Neo900> usually yes, but only with intact system
<Joerg-Neo900> frozen dot is a good sign
<rapha> k
<Joerg-Neo900> you did answer "YES" ?
<rapha> well yeah then you really need to change that message to reflect that the system needs to be left to its own devices
<rapha> yes i did
<Joerg-Neo900> and it said "flashing both" or sth?
<rapha> yeah
<Joerg-Neo900> ok
<rapha> the whole shebang now
<rapha> battery's recovered a little to 3.64 again
<Joerg-Neo900> the LED does nothing?
<rapha> nope, not been doing anything the whole time
<Joerg-Neo900> when a stock system charges, the LED should flash amber when the screen is locked
<Joerg-Neo900> it's 7 minutes now, please push the power button shortly
<Joerg-Neo900> if a menu shows up, good.
<rapha> doesn't do anything. and the backlight is turned on btw.
<Joerg-Neo900> then please unplug USB, then press power button for 10s and see if it shuts down, then 'remove battery', insert it again and plug in USB. Device shall boot and and start charging after 60s
<Joerg-Neo900> (it boots even when not 'powered up', into a ACT_DEAD state where it only flashes the LED)
<rapha> okay 10s press of the powerbutton does nothing
<Joerg-Neo900> then remove battery, go ahead as above
<rapha> did
<rapha> it seems to be in a reboot loop now
<rapha> amber "breathing"
<Joerg-Neo900> if the device doesn't show flashing LED and black screen after 60s fromplugging in USB, just remove USB and battery again
<Joerg-Neo900> breathing amber is excellent
<Joerg-Neo900> this most likely indicates it's charging
<rapha> breathing amber alternates with nokia screen and moving dot
<Joerg-Neo900> let it do its thing
<rapha> okay
<Joerg-Neo900> it takes a while
<rapha> (over and over again?)
<Joerg-Neo900> no, that's a reboot loop then
<rapha> pretty sure it is, 5th or 6th cycle now
<rapha> perhaps it /is/ the low BSI
<Joerg-Neo900> yes
<Joerg-Neo900> yes
<Joerg-Neo900> the check for BSI only starts late in boot
<rapha> aha
<Joerg-Neo900> and yes, incorrect BSI may cause reboot
<rapha> well then i'll just have to wait for the new battery or find a 35kOhm resistor somewhere
<rapha> (45+35=80)
<Joerg-Neo900> never thought of that before, but it's plausible
<Joerg-Neo900> or get the one from BL-5J
<rapha> i tested all components on the little PCB. none of them was a resistor even close to 80kOhm
<Joerg-Neo900> afaik it's a thin wirelike thing on the center of one of the flat sides
<rapha> oh okay
<Joerg-Neo900> I don't even know if I ever disassembled a BL-5J
<Joerg-Neo900> was looking for the picktuires of what I thought I did
<Joerg-Neo900> anyway
<Joerg-Neo900> ~bootloop
<infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, bootloop is when your device has broken rootfilesystem, so during reboot it fails on some service startup or kernel module load and thus reboots. This *drains* battery! And you can't reflash to stop bootloop when battery is drained. Recharge your battery by other means before reflashing. E.g. using ~rescueOS. Or external charger or BL-5J compatible other device.
<Joerg-Neo900> so don't let this go on
<Joerg-Neo900> n8!
<rapha> nah already detached it
<rapha> yes, good idea!
<rapha> thanks again, it was a very relaxed evening playing around with this
<Joerg-Neo900> :-)
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<rapha> HAAAAAHAHAHAHAH!!!! It works!!!!
<rapha> Brushing my teeth helped!
<rapha> After that I measured the little battery protection PCB again and found a 97kOhm resistor
<rapha> it was a little difficult to get cables soldered onto that
<rapha> and i cut the rest of the PCB away
<Joerg-Neo900> hey! :-D
<rapha> now, on the 2.5Ah Kazam LiPo, it works out to 110kOhm
<rapha> and the N900 just booted straight up!
<Joerg-Neo900> \o/
<Joerg-Neo900> yes, with BSI resistor at TEST (which is iirc sth around 15k) it enters some certification test mode
<rapha> ah okay
<rapha> so 45kOhm is still below the range
<Joerg-Neo900> yes, it's too way off the allowed range for normal BSI
<rapha> but 110 is probably still okay
<Joerg-Neo900> yes, higher is basically not an immediate problem
<rapha> nice UI so far for a 2009 device
<Joerg-Neo900> all special values are lower
<Joerg-Neo900> ~jrtools
<rapha> oh wow that's a lot of things to do :)
<rapha> these definitely not today anymore
<Joerg-Neo900> not all are mandatory
<Joerg-Neo900> yw
<Joerg-Neo900> :-)
<rapha> okeydokey, g'night once more :)
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