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<Joerg-Neo900> ~#maemo down
<infobot> it has been said that #maemo down is SERVICE DOWNTIME til 2016-11-27, see /topic, see https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1519159, TL;DR one blade broken, needs hardware swap. So wiki, bugs, a few more are down. Wiki mirror at http://web.archive.org/web/20161108115528/http://wiki.maemo.org/Main_Page
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<enyc> Joerg-Neo900: hrrm, looking at latest diagrams... Headphone jack pins look miswired to me...
<enyc> Joerg-Neo900: using the numbers on the jack as shown, 3 and 4 look transposed, I'm expecting L, R, Gnd, Mic ...
<Joerg-Neo900> err nope
<Joerg-Neo900> that's AHJ
<Joerg-Neo900> however for Neo900 it doesn't make a difference since we can serve both
<Joerg-Neo900> the normal sequence is L R Mic Gnd
<Joerg-Neo900> anyway see "microphone switch"
<Joerg-Neo900> U1103
<Joerg-Neo900> Nokia always used OMTP standard, until they went Windows/Android
<Joerg-Neo900> enyc: many thanks for looking at our schematics, highly appreciated :-)
<Joerg-Neo900> enyc: you're using the recent version of http://neo900.org/stuff/kicad/proto_v2/2016-11-20/ ?
<enyc> Joerg-Neo900: yes
<enyc> Joerg-Neo900: given the readiness with failures of headphone/headset cables i'd suggest defaulting to the 'new' approach...
<Joerg-Neo900> there's no 'default'
<enyc> ok
<Joerg-Neo900> the naming is compatible to N900
<enyc> well thats down to software to set the switch =) and if its' sense-based then not relevant
<Joerg-Neo900> it's even the hardware itself that sets the switch
<enyc> the N900 itself is in the 'old nokia' OMTP-only category?
<Joerg-Neo900> yes
<enyc> ok
<enyc> I was (separately) wondering what decisions have been made over USB-busses // usb-switching .... I distinctly remember a previous discussion over use of modem precluding using something else like gps.
<Joerg-Neo900> it's a real pity and a PITA Aplle pushed that AHJ crap to a de factor standard. It's technically fubar by design
<Joerg-Neo900> errr, can't recall any such mutual exclusive stuff around USB
<enyc> or maybe it was serial wires or something =)
<enyc> what 'mutually exclusive' requirements ARE there now? - i particular rememmber the 3g/4g modem might have to be used only over serial if doing 'something' else etc etc....
<Joerg-Neo900> no
<Joerg-Neo900> you must remember incorrectly
<Joerg-Neo900> never was like that
<Joerg-Neo900> modem should be used over serial during low bandwidth low power periods
<Joerg-Neo900> since USB is a tad power hungry
<enyc> whats the 'changeover' like ? and does any driver on any OS implement that?
<Joerg-Neo900> the changeover is like "send ATLABLA=USB to modem via serial, enable USB on SoC" - I don't know of any existing implementation, though there well might be
<Joerg-Neo900> arrrg
<Joerg-Neo900> the changeover is like "send AT%BLABLA=USB to modem via serial, enable USB on SoC" - I don't know of any existing implementation, though there well might be
<enyc> interesing, se the modem unit itself is designed to handle seamless transition at least
<Joerg-Neo900> yes
<Joerg-Neo900> Wizzup: I know, I caused that by comments
<Joerg-Neo900> :-)
<Joerg-Neo900> arrrgh that's arstechnica
<Wizzup> why argh?
<Wizzup> arstech has a lot of readers
<Wizzup> it's good publicity
<Joerg-Neo900> I mixed the two
<Wizzup> :)
<Joerg-Neo900> then was puzzled like hell why it looks different now
<enyc> Joerg-Neo900: presumably proto_v2 needs more 'connections' than shown to complete the circuit ?
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<Joerg-Neo900> hm? please elaborate
<enyc> Joerg-Neo900: as in the diagram is unfinished =)
<Joerg-Neo900> no
<enyc> Joerg-Neo900: theres a lot of unconnected-signals later on i thought
<Joerg-Neo900> which one?
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<Joerg-Neo900> they all have unique names, so it's easy to name one
<Joerg-Neo900> there might be dnagling siggnals but I'm not aware of any right now
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<Joerg-Neo900> a few signals are deliberately idle right now, or reduced functionality. like the uSD which doesn't make sense to try and connect to a BB-xM via a uSD dummy breakout to insert into the uSD slot there
<enyc> Joerg-Neo900: im reading further... awakening =) discovered more news pages... etc...
<Joerg-Neo900> modem USB doesn't have a PHY in proto_v2 since we have no ULPI to drive such PHY, so we connect the modem simply to a micro-USB jack and from there via a cable to BB-xM USB
<enyc> Joerg-Neo900: oh, the 'pin assignment still pending' is about the upper-lower board interconnect...
<Joerg-Neo900> well, that's actually sort of obsolete note :-)
<enyc> Joerg-Neo900: well ok it confused me, fix it =)
<Joerg-Neo900> the U-L B2B pin assignment is not written in stone but pretty comprehensive
<Joerg-Neo900> thanks!
<enyc> Joerg-Neo900: yes yes exactly
<Joerg-Neo900> wpwrak: maybe make that s/still pending/subject to change/
<enyc> Joerg-Neo900: more to the point i'd check all the 'todo:' around the schematic are connect ?
<Joerg-Neo900> or even subject to change during layout/
<Joerg-Neo900> well, some are, some prolly not
<Joerg-Neo900> as a general rule: the larger the TODO the lower the probability that it's still relevant
<Joerg-Neo900> ;-)
<gry> strike things out!
<gry> once a fortnight, I rewrite my todo on a fresh piece of paper
<Joerg-Neo900> I didn't find any nasty TODO
<enyc> ok
<Joerg-Neo900> nice part is the pdf's are searchable
<Joerg-Neo900> so it's easy to jump through all the 'todo'
<Joerg-Neo900> all 10
<Joerg-Neo900> and it's indeed a reverse relation between fontsize and relevance ;-)
<Joerg-Neo900> eeshow has no search, but then it has a nice datasheet feature like the blockdiagram
<wpwrak> Joerg-Neo900: btw, uSD is connected to the IO expander in the v2 adaptation. so we can fully use it. it just won't be very fast.
<wpwrak> and i made that TODO on LOWER-UPPER sounds a little less grim: https://neo900.org/stuff/werner/tmp/ee/pdf/neo900.pdf
<wpwrak> that one is in a kinda schroedinger state: it may look pretty solid and we didn't change my original assignments much, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a big reshuffling still to happen, especially one that would be driven by layout. also, nothing else depends on which signal goes where, so there's no big penalty of changing things.
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<wpwrak> hmm. i guess i should write a script to compare signal names on matching connectors, though.
<wpwrak> luckily, we have an easily parsed netlist :)
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<wpwrak> whee ! all connectors check out
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<xes> hey... does the neo900 pcb includes a jolly area style "matrix board" to solder some custom chip? ;)
<enyc> xes: you remind me of dip-chip "spare" connection points with only vcc/gnd connected
<xes> ..this would allow some custom hack or some fix "on the road" - post release
<enyc> xes: i thought hackerbus was for custom_hacks ;p
* Wizzup will order a second neo900 this week (neon board)
<atk> I don't think I could afford two
<enyc> wpwrak: do we get to see a proto pcb trace layout next ?
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<wpwrak> xes: even better: you can attach your own circuit ! http://neo900.org/stuff/papers/hb.pdf
<wpwrak> enyc: layout should start in earnest next week. will be interesting to see how things go :)
<enyc> wpwrak: wondering wider question about 'parts availability' scenario -- I remember 'risk parts' etc etc being discssed ages ago... how has that situation changed?
<wpwrak> enyc: we haven't noticed anything overly horrible in the supply situation lately. we didn't actively search for problems, though.
<wpwrak> enyc: the main concern at the moment are n900 cases. there, we're still well below the goal. but we have boots on the ground in china, and every once in a while some secret stash gets discovered.
<wpwrak> (n900 cases) well, "cases". with display and all that, too. refurbished n900.
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<Joerg-Neo900> ((Joerg-Neo900: btw, uSD is connected to the IO ex)) thus >>or reduced functionality<<
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<clownfish> Hi there! I'm sure this has been asked to death by others but is there an estimated date on when Neo900 motherboards will ship? I haven't purchased one but I have been following this project for a while now and am curious to know if they will be available sometime in 2017. Thanks! ^.^
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<enyc> clownfish: read web pages...
<enyc> clownfish: new info on there lately
<enyc> "At this point the final production is nigh, and we hope for the first run of Neo900 to start in time for Fall 2017." BUT "I've learned to be humble and not do fortune telling."
<enyc> clownfish: ALSO, help with crowdfunding when that point comes, will be valued!
<clownfish> Excellent! Thanks for your reply. Just saw the news. Can't wait!
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<enyc> clownfish: [I'm not sure in exactly what form the crowdfunding will happen.... but it very much responsd to my suggestion that a realistic path to completion is issued and then try to get orders in]
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