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<Joerg-Neo900> luke-jr: yeah, me too frowns at that "we don't even publish schematics" approach
<Joerg-Neo900> Neo900 at least rpomises to publish *everything* (project files) after production started
<Joerg-Neo900> until then we publsih schematics project files and PCB pdf files
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<luke-jr> Joerg-Neo900: they did publish schematics, but under a non-free license
<Joerg-Neo900> ooh
<Joerg-Neo900> where?
* Joerg-Neo900 just tries to find out about recent status of Pyra at large
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* Joerg-Neo900 looks at https://www.pyra-handheld.com/wiki/index.php?title=Comparison_Chart and frowns at weird stuff like "Dvorak impossible" - eh?
<luke-jr> Joerg-Neo900: you can't map the N900 keyboard layout to Dvorak
<luke-jr> nor the Pyra's
<Joerg-Neo900> aha, why?
<luke-jr> the layout doesn't fit
<Joerg-Neo900> so it does for any other device??
<luke-jr> GPD Win
<Joerg-Neo900> sorry you lost me
<Joerg-Neo900> for Neo900 you even could scrap off the paint from keymat and label it to your liking, given you find the right printing technique and paint
<Joerg-Neo900> and OF COURSe you can map the keys any way you like, in linux
<luke-jr> Qwerty only has 9 letters in the middle row and 7 on the bottom, but Dvorak has 10 and 9
<Joerg-Neo900> aaah, well
<luke-jr> N900 might be mappable if the space wasn't two wide
<wpwrak> Joerg-Neo900: not quite founding member. "initial core team" gets reasonably close, though. i think it started to call itself "core team" around the time i joined.
<Joerg-Neo900> then that's a pretty nonsensical evaluation, sort of like "could it fry chicken? no, since it's a rubber boat"
* Joerg-Neo900 also ROTFLs @ "Total 5 RGB LEDs" for Pyra now
<Joerg-Neo900> wpwrak: aah, ok
<Joerg-Neo900> heck, I suffered quite some bashing from Nik (not only) for that "xmas tree lighting"
<wpwrak> we have only something like ten ;-)
<wpwrak> remember the mystery LED matrix of gta03 ? :)
<Joerg-Neo900> HAHAerrCOUGH, well... "copying is the highest form of respect": >>3. there is an INA231YFF current sensor that can be queried ("cat /sys/class/hwmon/.../curr1_input") by the CPU and it measures the power consumption of the modem<< https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/poll-vote-now-1-3g-paranoia-discussing-solutions.73805/page-7#post-1396371
<Joerg-Neo900> I want my money back! ;-P
<Joerg-Neo900> wpwrak: oh MY GOSH "needs OLEDs!!!1!!1!!"
<Joerg-Neo900> wpwrak: you really should feel happy you only have to deal with Joerg who's clearly the minor weirdo
<wpwrak> i could have strangled that bloody designer. upon spotting that circuit, i asked EE if they had any idea what that thing was supposed to do. of course, they had just followed orders, and placed a chip that would "drive some LEDs". then i asked sean about it, and he indicated that the designer would now. asked him, and he flat out refused to answer.
<wpwrak> #s/now/know/
<wpwrak> Joerg-Neo900: yeah, there are some levels you may not even have thought could exist ;-)
<Joerg-Neo900> what do you think about the great "reminiscence" to Neo900 genuine design in Pyra?
<wpwrak> hehe ;-)
<Joerg-Neo900> If we had known that we don't see any ROI from our R&D, we might have already used another hardware house from beginning
<Joerg-Neo900> >>One thing to note: such 2/3/4G modems draw very little current while still active in reception mode. Some 3 mA (if base station is nearby) to 10 mA (if far away from a base station).<< wrong! while receiving, the distance to BTS doesn't matter at all
<Joerg-Neo900> while TX, it will be most likely significantly more than 3 to 10mA
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<Joerg-Neo900> RX is long term (10s window) average, due to sleep time the networks allows modem RX to do, by duty cycling
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<Joerg-Neo900> https://www.pyra-handheld.com/wiki/index.php?title=Comparison_Chart when pyra has "uSD internal" then Neo900's is "external"
<Joerg-Neo900> more "external" would be "exposed to dirt"
<Joerg-Neo900> ;-)
<Joerg-Neo900> oops ECHAN
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* Joerg-Neo900 idly wonders if we should emphasize that so far we don't know of any Tantalum in our device
<Joerg-Neo900> and that we'll try to avoid any tantalum components
<Joerg-Neo900> according to "why use 'green' tantalum when you can get away without using *any* at all"
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<Joerg-Neo900> is there any good reference site to check which components contain any non-PC materials?
<Joerg-Neo900> I guess in the LCD we won't get away without some possibly encumbered rare earth
<Joerg-Neo900> though... unclear. Might as well be completely harmless stuff like tinoxide etc
<Joerg-Neo900> indium tin oxide hmmm
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<ahycka> i found another bug: in sheet charger/OTG, R203 and R204 aren't commercial value resistors.
<ahycka> wpwrak, Joerg-Neo900
<ahycka> wpwrak, there is a new datasheet revision of SLG46533V, the old link was: http://www.silego.com/uploads/Products/product_482/SLG46533r106_10202016.pdf and the new link is http://www.silego.com/uploads/Products/product_482/SLG46533r107_11152016.pdf
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<ahycka> i have another doubt, in kicad schematics, i cant find resistor's tolerance. For example, R412's value is 180k, but if we want this value we must choose 0.1, 0.5 or 0.25 tolerance. Is it neccesary? you can choice 1% tolerance values, they are easiest to find :)
<ahycka> *you can choose
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<ahycka> 180k is 5% value, sorry!
* ahycka needs new glasses
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<wpwrak> ahycka: i guess we should just pick 1% as the default tolerance (there's usually no significant cost or availability difference to 5% nowadays), or whatever the respective nominal value comes with normally. i think we have a few that are from a < 1% scale.
<ahycka> i always use 1% too :)
<ahycka> but R203 and R204 arent in any serie :(
<ahycka> 5k52 and 31k23
<Joerg-Neo900> please list thoese <1%, most of them are not necessary in such precision
<Joerg-Neo900> Oh I seem to recall those, and the discussions we had :-/
<wpwrak> (r203, r204) nik originals. interesting that he picked values that don't exist on the usual scales.
<wpwrak> Joerg-Neo900: (discussions) you mean abuot r203/r204 ? or about other < 1% ?
<Joerg-Neo900> the calculator spit out those values ;-)
<Joerg-Neo900> I don't recall, nevermind
<wpwrak> the values are interestingly precise for temperature :)
<Joerg-Neo900> ^^^
<wpwrak> ah, they come from TI's data sheet ! ;-))
<ahycka> yes, well, 5k52 in datasheet is 5k25 xD
<wpwrak> plus a typo. 5.25 became 5.52
<ahycka> yes
<ahycka> hahahaha
<wpwrak> ahycka: if you make it weird, you may as well be serious about it ;-)
<wpwrak> not that 5.25 k would exist, either ... (at least not on anything as coarse as E192)
<Joerg-Neo900> not that the temperature range in ^^^ looks sane to me at all
<Joerg-Neo900> 45°C seriously now?
<wpwrak> Joerg-Neo900: shall we use 5.23 k and 30.9 k then ?
<wpwrak> (E96, 1%)
<wpwrak> Joerg-Neo900: okay with making resistors "1% or better" by default ?
<wpwrak> Joerg-Neo900: and we need the same for cap chemistry. "X5R or better" ?
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<Joerg-Neo900> sure
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<ahycka> 5 = +85 °C (+185 °F)
<ahycka> enough xD
<Joerg-Neo900> 5?
<ceene> it depends if the battery charger designer comes from samsung...
<ahycka> the 5 in x5r
<Joerg-Neo900> aah
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<Joerg-Neo900> for some caps we might need to do what we're supposed to: read the datasheet
<ahycka> wikipedia is my friend
<ahycka> yes
<ahycka> some chips says x7r
<ahycka> other x5r or x7r
<Joerg-Neo900> doesn't mean much in the end of the day
<Joerg-Neo900> yes, they are generally better, but...
<ahycka> the most common are X5R
<ahycka> i've never had problems with them
<Joerg-Neo900> for some capacitors you actually need to check which capacity loss they have at which voltage, etc
<wpwrak> i suggest: "Unless indicated otherwise, all capacitors should be X5R or X6S, or better (X7R, NP0, etc.)" (that's what i use for anelok)
<ahycka> i usually have problem with X7R
<ceene> what's anelok?
<wpwrak> there, i also have "If no voltage is specified, use >= 6.3 V"
<ahycka> always :)
<wpwrak> ceene: https://anelok.com/
<ahycka> or 10V
<wpwrak> ahycka: (problem with X7r) you mean performance or availability ? or is there a "no" missing ? :)
<ceene> geek enough :D
<wpwrak> ceene: those passwords need to go *somewhere*, don't they ? :)
<ahycka> our assembler always have problems with X7R stock
<ahycka> they always have X5R or Y5R
<ahycka> for a mobile doesnt matter, but our last proyect is a pcb that must work a 70degrees of ambient temperature
<Joerg-Neo900> we need to redo the math for r203/r204
<ahycka> so i need X7R and NP0
<wpwrak> ah, that's fine. the x7r is just an example.
<Joerg-Neo900> but not today
<ceene> gotta go shopping or we won't be able to eat tomorrow
<ceene> brb!
<Joerg-Neo900> same here
<ahycka> brb!
<Joerg-Neo900> ooh and moinmoin
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<Joerg-Neo900> wpwrak: maybe we can use the OM battery datasheets to find out about a sane temperature range for LiIon charging
<wpwrak> i'll just use the values i suggested above and add a nice fat TODO item
<Joerg-Neo900> yes, please do :-)
<Joerg-Neo900> add the dang formula to the TODO when it even fits on one sheet ;-)
<Joerg-Neo900> DUH! 45°C is sane°
<wpwrak> that formula is about half a page ;-) naw, a simple reminder will do
<wpwrak> now .. the daily silego data sheet change ...
<wpwrak> i just wish they didn't always delete the old version
<wpwrak> or at least not immediately
<Joerg-Neo900> maybe use what they use in their GP designer?
<wpwrak> then i'd have to parse the HTML to extract the PDF link
<Joerg-Neo900> err
<Joerg-Neo900> that wasn't what I suggested
<Joerg-Neo900> and that's not what greenpak designer does
<wpwrak> the link you pasted points to a web page, with the PDF link
<Joerg-Neo900> I know
<wpwrak> well, i'll add investigting what gp designer does to my to do list then ...
<Joerg-Neo900> o.O
<Joerg-Neo900> the "datasheets" button links to http://www.silego.com/softdoc/datasheet.html
<Joerg-Neo900> the "PDF" for a particular chip links to http://www.silego.com/softdoc/datasheet.html?filterPN=SLG46533V
<Joerg-Neo900> I guess you problem is that you invoke a pdf viewer ;-)
<wpwrak> if i use the "PDF" link http://www.silego.com/softdoc/datasheet.html?filterPN=SLG46533V with chromium, i still don't get the PDF
<wpwrak> and no, i don't want to fire up a web browser :)
<wpwrak> but now i have a perl problem to solve. post-ubuntu-upgrade perl doesn't like my block diagram scripts :-(
<Joerg-Neo900> sorry I forgot eeshow builds a cache
<Joerg-Neo900> >>parse the HTML to extract the PDF link<< doesn't sound too bad
<wpwrak> (parse html) that also tends to be fragile. i tried that on some occasions, but - often - all that really changes is that i then end up chasing "invisible" changes in the html instead of chasing data sheet changes. plus, that add one extra layer for integration.
<wpwrak> but i'm now streamlining the update a little. the block diagram had the DS link three times. it'll be one shared link now.
<Joerg-Neo900> wget http://www.silego.com/softdoc/datasheet.html?filterPN=SLG46533V -O -|grep 'href\=[^ ]*46533[^ ]*pdf'|sed 's%.*href\=\"\([^ ]*46533[^ ]*pdf\)\".*%\1%' sorry for sloppiness
<Joerg-Neo900> you get the idea
<Joerg-Neo900> (sloppy) the grep is cruft, whe I'd be smarter with sed
<Joerg-Neo900> very low chances to break _more_often_ than the mere link to http://www.silego.com/uploads/Products/product_514/SLG46533r107_11152016.pdf
<wpwrak> well, this means that i need to add another scripting layer to all the processing. also, it breaks in more complex ways. updating the data sheet is generally quick. sifting through the HTML to see what they changes this time can take a lot more time.
<Joerg-Neo900> .oO(???)
<wpwrak> also, this then hides the change from "make"
<Joerg-Neo900> sorry, no idea then
* Joerg-Neo900 stores that commandline to a local script, after minor improvements, for convenience
<Joerg-Neo900> I guess sometimes you lack a tad of pragmatism when it comes to such stuff
<Joerg-Neo900> you want a *.pdf, http://www.silego.com/softdoc/datasheet.html?filterPN=SLG46533V is supposed to have it, and it's most likely in the form of href\=[^ ]*46533[^ ]*pdf'
<wpwrak> it's the sort of things i've experimented with for a good while and found that it's not always as nice and easy as it may seem at first sight
<Joerg-Neo900> *shrug*
<Joerg-Neo900> another thought: could eeshow and BD use the same 'caching' method/location?
<Joerg-Neo900> ((not always as nice and easy)) for Silego you at least know that they have a huge userbase of GP-designer programs that are all invoking the http://www.silego.com/softdoc/datasheet.html?filterPN=SLG46533V URL and supposedly there's a very easy href= link to the actual datasheet
<wpwrak> partially. BD is a bit more general. but it would mean to change all the references in the BD files (replacing DS links with component names), plus it would introduce a dependency between so far unrelated systems (in different repos: BD is in misc)
<Joerg-Neo900> if you want to get super fancy and even more robust, make that regex s%.*< *a *href\=\"\([^ ]*pdf\)\"[^<]*46533[^<]*< */a *>%\1%
<Joerg-Neo900> oops, missed > s%.*< *a *href\=\"\([^ ]*pdf\)\"[^<>]*>[^<]*46533[^<]*< */a *>%\1%
<wpwrak> i was actually hioping to make a bit of progress with the v2 document. but since optimizing these details is clearly top priority for you, it'll work on that then
<Joerg-Neo900> please stop assuming!!!
<Joerg-Neo900> I *hate* when people tell me "obviousy you do think BLABLA"
<Joerg-Neo900> I hate even more when people pretend such assumption about what I think was a legitimate justification for them to base actions on it and them blame me for 'ordering' that
<wpwrak> well, i told you about a dozen times that i don't think this matters now. but you just won't let it go.
<Joerg-Neo900> maybe a more honest wording you could use would be "STFU!" then? :-/
<wpwrak> as if that would have worked ;-)
<Joerg-Neo900> "worked" for what?
<Joerg-Neo900> to make me shut up?
<Joerg-Neo900> or what is your problem?
<ceene> you two look like a marriage in their sixties
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<Joerg-Neo900> as if you were not able to (and always actually did) write and modify your own todo list
<wpwrak> yeah. you would have taken that as insult or challenge, probably both. requiring even more effort to impose your will. you do that all the time.
<ceene> don't discuss in front of the kids, or we'll get traumatized
<wpwrak> ceene: sadly, you're not the first to remark this
<Joerg-Neo900> wpwrak: again - STOP ASSUMING!
<Joerg-Neo900> when you can't ignore my contributions then tell me you are busy with other things. Don't tell me I put priority in stuff by comments like [2016-11-30 Wed 19:12:41] <Joerg-Neo900> *shrug*
<wpwrak> alright, ignoring sounds good :) that sometimes actually works. alas, not this time. i did actually try to change the subject, but you kept coming back. my repertoire of joerg-countermeasures isn't perfect yet :)
<Joerg-Neo900> check your definition of "ignore"!
<Joerg-Neo900> what you want is "joerg: STFU", not ignore me
<Joerg-Neo900> when you want to change the topic, you need to explain that to your peers, or they might stay on old topic while still considering your new topic in a parallel thread
<Joerg-Neo900> are you aware that joerg-countermeasures sounds ratzher unfriendly?
* Joerg-Neo900 tries to make true sense of >>i told you about a dozen times that i don't think this matters now. but you just won't let it go.<<
<Joerg-Neo900> unless there's a side channel I am not aware of, I can't confirm the first half. And I don't get the implication of >>won't let it go<< unless that actually means "STFU"
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<Joerg-Neo900> FWIW (please don't think this is pushing in any direction) wget -q http://www.silego.com/softdoc/datasheet.html?filterPN=SLG46533V -O -|sed -n 's%.*href\=\"\([^ ]*46533[^ ]*pdf\)\".*%\1%;T;p;q'
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<Joerg-Neo900> jr@saturn:~> getsilego(){ wget -q http://www.silego.com/softdoc/datasheet.html?filterPN=${1} -O -|sed -n "s%.*href\=\"\([^ ]*${1}[^ ]*pdf\)\".*%\1%;T;p;q"; }
<Joerg-Neo900> jr@saturn:~> getsilego 46533
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