ChanServ changed the topic of #elliottcable to: laser printers are fucking awesome
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<whitequark>
glowcoil: lol javascript or llvm
<purr>
lol
<whitequark>
such an absurd question
<whitequark>
it's like, should I run it on intel core 2 or abacus
<glowcoil>
whitequark: of course
<glowcoil>
whitequark: but both are perfectly suited to my intended application, making games
<glowcoil>
whitequark: so, it's like asking should i do addition on an intel core 2 or abacus
<glowcoil>
one takes more intial effort to set up, one can go further in the long run
<whitequark>
ah. sure thing then
* whitequark
is not in the mood to read backlog today
<glowcoil>
:p
<whitequark>
like, can't be arsed.
<glowcoil>
fair enough
<glowcoil>
absolutely crazy how much of a thing genres are
<glowcoil>
like, i'm listening to black sabbath's debut album from 1970, which basically created heavy metal
<glowcoil>
and
<glowcoil>
it's ridiculous how similar the drumming is to like
<glowcoil>
gojira's album from 2 years ago
<glowcoil>
same with like, punk
<glowcoil>
you listen to the drum pattern and it's like, the same between the ramones and the clash and like, green day and blink 182 and shit
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<glowcoil>
and it's exactly the same with most things that we don't use that could improve our life in programming languages were invented 60 years ago
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<glowcoil>
just realized that's kind of a garden path sentence with no valid parse
<whitequark>
glowcoil: Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?
<glowcoil>
whitequark: You've got to be kidding me. I've been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can.
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<glowcoil>
whitequark: yeah saw, most are kinda gross
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<glowcoil>
whitequark: :p
<whitequark>
yea
<glowcoil>
having girls that are too young for you to pursue interested in you is a weird experience
<glowcoil>
that i'm just barely old enough to have
<whitequark>
it is sad and a little bit cringeworthy, if you think of what probably happens in her head
<glowcoil>
yeah
<whitequark>
I've once talked with a friend who was *really* into her thesis advisor
<whitequark>
I find it sad that the main reason such relationships are doomed is the bias in the society, not some intrinsic factors
<glowcoil>
yeah definitely
<whitequark>
like, there are negative aspects to it, but hell, there is a fucking huge amount of negative aspects to perfect within-two-years marriages of which half falls apart within 6 months
<whitequark>
it's just dumb
<glowcoil>
yeah exactly
<glowcoil>
though at the same time there can be a lot of weirdness from being in different points in your life
<glowcoil>
though probably no more than just coming from different backgrounds and being the same age, a lot of the time
<whitequark>
exactly
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<whitequark>
and I mean, otherwise western society embraces weirdness, or at least considers that desirable
<glowcoil>
haha yeah
<glowcoil>
"opposites attract"
<glowcoil>
and valuing uniqueness so much
<glowcoil>
aw thought my dorm room door just got knocked on but it wasn't
<glowcoil>
roommate is gone, most likely getting laid :p
<glowcoil>
friend i was gonna go to a partyish thing with got high and fell asleep
<glowcoil>
so i'm just playing threes on my iphone
<glowcoil>
:p
<whitequark>
getting laid is overrated. getting best photoresist adhesion is what matters
* whitequark
spins up his laminator
<whitequark>
MOAR LABNOTES
<glowcoil>
haahhaha
<whitequark>
though this time not actually about photoresist, just about goddamn laser printers
<glowcoil>
oh no i'm chill about not getting laid atm :p
<glowcoil>
there was a point where it would affect my self worth etc. but i've reached a good point about it
<whitequark>
I mean seriously, you screw someone and you're happy for five minutes. You develop an industrial-quality process and you feel fucking amazing for a *month*
<glowcoil>
hahahahahaah
<glowcoil>
that's going on the wall
<whitequark>
and you can also brag about it without getting labeled
<glowcoil>
hahaha
<glowcoil>
pawschanning this
<whitequark>
and you can make money on it (maybe), also without getting labeled
<whitequark>
and you can mention that in interviews
<whitequark>
etc
<glowcoil>
"what are your qualifications?"
<glowcoil>
"fucked seven people over the last 3 months"
<whitequark>
"congrats, you're our new car salesman"
<glowcoil>
haha
<whitequark>
if you can sell that odd squishy thing to people, surely you would be able to sell our metal perfection
<glowcoil>
lolol
<purr>
lolol
<whitequark>
fuck I seriously hate this squishy thing
<whitequark>
why does it just *have* to leave fingerprints everywhere
<glowcoil>
odd segue
<whitequark>
well, I dunno, I'm not fond of bodies in general. they're gross. and in this particular case, my own body left some oily crap all over this beautiful clear acrylic sheet
<whitequark>
now I have to clean it with isopropanol. and it dries the skin. remember the fact where I'm not fond of bodies? exactly
<whitequark>
in my next life, I want to be a sheet of clear acrylic
<glowcoil>
i can't wait to see what sexual preferences and fetishes develop once bodies are no longer necessary
<whitequark>
whitequark: wat.
<purr>
beep.
<whitequark>
glowcoil: dunno, sex is already pretty much inside one's head. I don't think removal of bodies would significantly change something
<whitequark>
or rather
<whitequark>
most people need something simple and traditional to grasp on
<glowcoil>
well i mean
<glowcoil>
once we're uploaded
<glowcoil>
brains can expand and change in different ways
<whitequark>
and those who don't, already can have pretty much any fetishes you can imagine
<whitequark>
hrm
<glowcoil>
and if you can actually hook up stimulation
<whitequark>
that's one thing which bothers me about uploading
<glowcoil>
that doesn't inherently use specifically human bodies
<whitequark>
the whole dopaminergic system
<glowcoil>
how's that?
<whitequark>
for one, if you're already uploaded, making yourself a skinner's cage is about as complex as one shell command
<glowcoil>
oh yeah
<glowcoil>
haha
<whitequark>
and there's literally nothing one can do to prevent that
<glowcoil>
not necessarily a problem, though, since
<glowcoil>
humans have higher levels on the maslow hierarchy that they value on a deeper level
<glowcoil>
so like
<glowcoil>
breaking addictions is also a few shell commands
<glowcoil>
yknow
<whitequark>
not necessarily. I mean, if uploading truly emulates the neural nets, it would be next to impossible to rollback arbitrary changes
<glowcoil>
well i mean it would be significantly easier to conduct any CBT
<glowcoil>
etc.
<whitequark>
since even with very simple nets we have today, we can't actually select particular nodes and say what they're responsible for
<whitequark>
well
<glowcoil>
and there would be the intrinsic desire in most cases
<glowcoil>
to avoid addiction
<glowcoil>
right, not immediately
<glowcoil>
but once we have brains that can arbitrarily expand there's no telling what we'll be capable of
<glowcoil>
etc.
<glowcoil>
i know that's kind of a cop out
<whitequark>
it would be a crisis of existence though, once people actually realize that all their desires are arbitrary
<whitequark>
like, they make no sense at all, they just happened that way
<glowcoil>
yeah
<glowcoil>
though i mean that's already happening
<glowcoil>
that's the subject of quite a bit of literature
<glowcoil>
basically what existentialism is
<whitequark>
that is true. but, when freed of pretty much all bodily desire, that's going to be taken to a whole new level
<whitequark>
like, whole population of earth in state of existential crisis
<glowcoil>
right, but society will adjust
<glowcoil>
i don't think it will be a problem, just the drastic change that it's expected to be
<whitequark>
I wonder if there will still be society
<whitequark>
or rather, today, a lone individual can't really do anything
<glowcoil>
yeah that's the kind of question it's hard to think of specific negative examples to :p
<whitequark>
because they're not powerful, and because they'll go insane without interaction
<glowcoil>
oh right yeah
<glowcoil>
i think, though there will be exceptions, we have these notions of identities and individuals and social fulfillment
<whitequark>
however if you can expand your brain in arbitrary ways, and if you likely have an unlimited number of advanced robots under your disposal
<glowcoil>
and you have to believe that you're really interacting with people
<glowcoil>
for it to be fulfilling
<whitequark>
well, those notions are emergent from brain structure
<glowcoil>
right
<whitequark>
after uploading, we'll no longer be confined to that
<glowcoil>
but "advanced robots" can mean
<glowcoil>
actual people who are just different from humans
<glowcoil>
etc.
<glowcoil>
in which case that is a society
<whitequark>
I'm more thinking on a lower level, "arbitrary manipulators"
<whitequark>
those things will surely come before nonhuman intelligence
<whitequark>
and they can give an individual practically unlimited power
<whitequark>
well, only limited by energy input
<whitequark>
oooh, actually Lem wrote about this
<whitequark>
sec
<whitequark>
or maybe not him. let me find the book.
<glowcoil>
greg egan and charles stross have a lot of things about this
<glowcoil>
whitequark: unrelated, do you listen to much music?
<glowcoil>
i wonder if i'll ever have a healthy diet
<whitequark>
haha diet
<whitequark>
I embarked on a journey to find the optimal food, concerning amount of time required to prepare and dishes to wash afterwards
<whitequark>
so, french fries and nuggets made in the oven, using disposable baking paper, requires exactly 25 minutes to prepare, including only 5 minutes of active attention, and results in a single plate, single fork and single cup to wash afterwards
<whitequark>
except neither of them is actually 'fried', because I hate oil. everything is oilless.
<glowcoil>
hahahahaha
<whitequark>
it also helps that I get sick of eating the same thing day after day only after about six months, and after that I can wait a year and it'll be delicious again
<whitequark>
that reminds me, I need to heat up the oven
<glowcoil>
my older brother is like that
* whitequark
cooks with an IR thermometer
<whitequark>
it's the best thing ever
<glowcoil>
i have a lot less self-discipline and get bored a lot more easily
<whitequark>
you can actually observe the temperature gradient inside
<whitequark>
well, not observe, that'd require a more expensive piece of equipment. rather, infer from readings.
<glowcoil>
oh that's sweet
<whitequark>
though I did consider buying a thermovisor
<whitequark>
I also use scales to measure ingredients with ±1g tolerance and am kind of obsessive about timings
<whitequark>
people keep telling me that is not how cooking usually happens
<glowcoil>
hahahahha
<glowcoil>
does that make the food really consistent, or what?
<glowcoil>
:p
<whitequark>
it absolutely does
<whitequark>
I really like the feeling of control over even something so as insignificant as food. gives you a hope of the future.
<whitequark>
"maybe the government got overthrown today, but my chicken nuggets are exactly fucking same today as yesterday. stability!"
<glowcoil>
haha
<whitequark>
I *may* have OCPD
<whitequark>
(probably no, not really.)
<glowcoil>
i think most people are more abnormal than normal in terms of psychology
<glowcoil>
and the way we perceive the rest of society is through an idealized popular culture lense
<glowcoil>
so a very small group of people fit into the group we think is everyone else
<whitequark>
there's a reason DSM is often considered bullshit today
<glowcoil>
yeah
<glowcoil>
i'm gonna go grab dinner from the dining hall
<glowcoil>
it will probably make me feel worse but
<glowcoil>
i'm feeling both hungry and really full
<glowcoil>
:/
<glowcoil>
be back
<glowcoil>
:p
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<glowcoil>
kill me
* whitequark
kills glowcoil
<whitequark>
glowcoil: okay tell me
<glowcoil>
thx
<whitequark>
shall I dilute etchant to 15% or 10%
<glowcoil>
i'm probably the least qualified person to ask :P