ChanServ changed the topic of #elliottcable to: boobs
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Omfg wtf, electronics
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I mean rlylol
<purr> rlylol
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<devyn> PLejeck: you can do whatever you want, but you're still
<devyn> -nuck @ PLejeck
<purr> PLejeck: shut up nuck you are a nuck
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> hi
<purr> ELLIOTTCABLE: hi!
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<joelteon> yd. ldrgb. co pcbicbi
<ELLIOTTCABLE> no
<ELLIOTTCABLE> no is my favourite word
<ELLIOTTCABLE> no is my favorite message
<ELLIOTTCABLE> some day, I will change my name to No
<joelteon> my mistake
<joelteon> well
<joelteon> not mine
<devyn> ELLIOTTCABLE: sometimes I wish I could learn how to say no
<devyn> abe joelteon C jab er yday yrrv
<joelteon> naomie was typing on my keyboard
<devyn> who is naomie
<joelteon> one of my housemates
<devyn> is she retarded
<joelteon> she's 10
<joelteon> so yeah
<devyn> ah. okay
<joelteon> well, she doesn't understand how to use dvorak
<devyn> joelteon: decrypted: "the pohoune is ringing"
<devyn> wtf
<joelteon> yeah
<joelteon> i dunno, you know how kids are
<devyn> I like ruby
<joelteon> just set your layout to qwerty and touch-type dvorak
<devyn> I can't do that. I can type whole words on dvorak just fine but ask me to find an out of sequence character and I can't
<devyn> it's weird
<joelteon> how odd
<joelteon> i did find out that my brain filters out periods when retyping text
<devyn> interesting; I've never experienced that
<ELLIOTTCABLE> joelteon: huh?
<joelteon> because i produced "th phoun is ringing" and was like where are you guys getting "e"
<devyn> oh, but it's easy to overlook that the periods would translate to letters
<devyn> that's kind of unexpected unless you're thinking about it
<devyn> that is so sweet
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> devyn: wat
<ELLIOTTCABLE> fire, water, errr, I don't get it
<devyn> someone said magic the gathering or something, but really I was just pointing out the writing in bacteria
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> devyn: the comments on that thread were interesting.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> anybody awake on Valentine's Night, other than me?
* devyn
<devyn> kinda
<devyn> barely
<whitequark> me
<whitequark> because it's not night
<whitequark> ELLIOTTCABLE: that's not electronics
<whitequark> that's chemistry
<devyn> lol
<purr> lol
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<whitequark> ha, kill la kill just gets better with every episode
<whitequark> "You have no qualms about literally stabbing your mother in the back?" "Of course not!"
<whitequark> so. much. dramatic. monologue.
<whitequark> I don't think I have *ever* seen so much dramatic monologue.
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<glowcoil> ELLIOTTCABLE: there's a hard glass ceiling on how good programmer experience can get if you insist on a minimum feedback turnaround time of save txt editor, type terminal command
<glowcoil> alexgordon: was i doing something similar to that?
<glowcoil> ELLIOTTCABLE: and i think it's dumb to dogmatically value those things
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<whitequark> glowcoil: I think those two things are irrelevant
<whitequark> what is relevant is "restart your running process"
<whitequark> perhaps this is another reason *nix is built around cli
<glowcoil> whitequark: how are they irrelevant? it seems that sticking with text editors and command line stuff has really disincentivized live programming
<glowcoil> like also the complete lack of awareness/caring about ux on the part of people who design programmer tools means that most programs written to write code suck
<whitequark> well. command line stuff is irrelevant. you can do it with just ^S. examples: livereload extension for sublime, ruby's guard, I'm sure there are more
<whitequark> so you don't need to manually type commands and stuff, you can make it run tests or reappear in browser or other things automatically without much work right now
<whitequark> but, where that approach fails is where you need to do something more complex than "re-run this thing"
<whitequark> because almost every process relevant to developers is a batch one
<whitequark> it's not a consequence of shitty editors, it's simply because batch processes are much much simpler to implement
<whitequark> glowcoil: ^
<whitequark> as per text editors, well, I'll repeat: I'm still waiting for a non-text-based editor that is not a cute toy
<whitequark> that nodejs flowchart thing, yeah. explored decades ago in industrial control systems in development environments "suited for engineers who don't know how to code"
<whitequark> during those decades it was firmly established that all flowchart things quickly devolve into unreadable and unmaintainable mess
<whitequark> that clojure on ipad thing seems to basically be just an alternative input method, not a true paradigm change
<whitequark> it's hilarious to watch people trying to program on tablets, but if they want--*shrug* good for them. still it is not radically different.
<purr> ¯\(º_o)/¯
<whitequark> so far I've seen one step in right direction: AST-aware diff
<alexgordon> yeah who codes on a tablet o_O
<whitequark> we'll definitely see more tablet coding things because tablets >>> PC by quantity
<alexgordon> it seems to be one of those things that people get inordinately excited about because they feel that *should* be the future
<alexgordon> but actually, it is intrinsically sucky
<whitequark> so there's demand for that and we'd better figure out the best way to code if constrain by tablet
<whitequark> well, "worse is better"
<whitequark> it worked in past, it will work this time
<alexgordon> tablet screens are too small for coding, that's the main problem
<whitequark> ikr!
<alexgordon> coding on a big MS surface thing would be OK
<whitequark> I'm just sayin': there's a shitton of people wanting to code on tablets. there will be a shitton of people coding on tablets.
<whitequark> whether you like it or not
<whitequark> think of developing countries: tablets are absurdly cheap. PCs are not.
<whitequark> you can get a decent tablet for <$50. perhaps <$30.
<alexgordon> there's lots of people fucking in australia, there'll be a lot of new australians... but I try not to think about it
<whitequark> lol how is that relevant
<purr> lol
<alexgordon> just saying... I'm not sure I care :P
<alexgordon> NOW
<alexgordon> make me a aux tablet app
<alexgordon> like a secondary keyboard
<whitequark> artlebedev imagined that in 2006: http://www.artlebedev.ru/everything/optimus/maximus/
<alexgordon> I want my optimus dammit
<alexgordon> I remember when the mini three came out, people were like "OMG IT'S A COLOR DISPLAY YOU CAN PRESS"
<alexgordon> that was before the iphone caught on
<whitequark> oh it was even known in english internet?
<alexgordon> yeah it was huge
<whitequark> cool, I never knew that
<whitequark> lebedev is a huge dork but his studio sure makes a lot of cool things
<alexgordon> displays have got so much cheaper in so little time
<whitequark> a lot of shitty things too, but more cool ones
<alexgordon> I remember the first gen ipod nanos, that tiny color display on a battery powered device was a Big Deal
<alexgordon> before it was all back and white
<alexgordon> and that was only 2005
<whitequark> I had a color "PDA" in 2005
<whitequark> Casio... something
<alexgordon> yeah but they were fucking expensive :P
<whitequark> I think this one
<whitequark> tried to port linux to it but my C-fu was not enough by far
<whitequark> also no datasheets
<alexgordon> lol ROM
<purr> lol
<whitequark> what?
<alexgordon> 16 MB ROM
<whitequark> so?
<whitequark> your fucking router likely has 8MB
<alexgordon> well that's it, no internal flash memory
<whitequark> *today*
<whitequark> sure, flash was expensive, components were huge
<whitequark> I think there simply was no place on PCB to put flash on
<whitequark> actually, hm, mine had a NOR flash I think
<alexgordon> apple gets all the credit, but they were just waiting all this time for the technology to improve
<alexgordon> intel should get credit for the billions they throw at R&D for new process technology
<whitequark> nfc
<whitequark> not just intel
<alexgordon> samsung I guess!
<whitequark> there's independent foundries, display vendors, new soldering processes... thousands of people and companies
<whitequark> really it's so global it's almost unbelievable
<whitequark> universities, of course.
<whitequark> new materials and machining processes
<whitequark> software to run all that shit
<whitequark> I don't think today's smartphone market would be possible without Linux, for example
<alexgordon> well iphone runs bsd :P
<whitequark> most of today's microelectronics would be 1/10 as good without Linux
<whitequark> well iphone is like 5% of market
<alexgordon> right but without linux people could have used bsd
<alexgordon> it's just that linux is better
<whitequark> linux supports more hardware, in part because it forces people to contribute drivers back
<whitequark> they whine and cry, but do it
<whitequark> bsd is a tragedy of commons, in a sense
<alexgordon> right phones aren't expandable so it doesn't really matter
<whitequark> wat?
<alexgordon> samsung can afford to write drivers for the cameras they put on their phones
<whitequark> it's about running a single, well-debugged codebase on 1000s of kinds of devices
<whitequark> compared to using ten homebrewn shitty proprietary RTOSes like it was before
<whitequark> s,RT,,
<whitequark> if you use Linux, you pull in a very good: networking stack, memory manager, drivers for common system peripherals, etc, etc, for free.
<alexgordon> heh yeah, well if you want a shitty RTOS, there's always windows phone!
<whitequark> windows kernel is not shitty, it's a decent late 90's kernel. same as OSX's
<whitequark> it's all the stuff around it which is shitty
<whitequark> I mean, I'd gladly use Debian/kWindowsNT or something, it's good enough.
<alexgordon> :|
<whitequark> seriously have you ever seen its design
<alexgordon> my experience with windows has never been good
<whitequark> well, that's because kernel defines like, 0.1% of experience
<whitequark> clearly visible experience.
* alexgordon goes back to his travel guide
<alexgordon> god I love python
<prophile> it's so dirty and impure though
<jesusabdullah> Kinda like your mom OHHHH SNAP
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<whitequark> I can reproduce traces with 50µm width
<whitequark> slightly thinner than a typical human hai
<whitequark> *hair
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