#bitcoin-wizards on 2017-11-24 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2015-10-30 00:53 sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja

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00:45 <rusty> AFAIK, the weight of a bitcoin tx doesn't have a unit. Can we call it the Wuille? Please please please...

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00:46 <jcorgan> the sipa much easier to figure out how to pronounce :-)

00:46 <yoleaux> 1 Sep 2017 18:24Z <maaku> jcorgan: looks like Google is exploring the word2vec -> semantic network idea I was musing with you about last time we met

00:46 <yoleaux> 1 Sep 2017 18:24Z <maaku> jcorgan: https://research.googleblog.com/2017/08/transformer-novel-neural-network.html

00:47 <jcorgan> i should comment here more often :-)

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00:52 <rusty> jcorgan: Hmm, and it's its own plural: 4M Sipa. I like it. (It should be capitalized, according to Google, since it's a proper noun).

00:53 <jcorgan> we have a winner

00:55 <jcorgan> "4 mega-Sipa should be enough for anyone"

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00:56 <sipa> rusty: i've been using vbyte

00:57 <sipa> on the other hand, several sites already call it WU...

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01:00 <rusty> sipa: I've been using "weight" as in, satoshi-per-kiloweight. But it's awkward. Sipa is shorter, distinct, and just-a-little fanboi.

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01:03 <rusty> sipa: Sorry, I just found out the Pieter Wuille Facts team have made it official. http://pieterwuillefacts.com/?50

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01:13 <dcousens> sipa: WU, but it does make me chuckle in the irony of the SegWit weight-unit potentially being pronounced "Wu"...

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07:10 <Eliel> has anyone worked on a specification for a multisignature script with indirect keys? That is, you'd have a multisig-script that instead of specifying the signing keys directly, specifies key-identifiers of keys recorded in separate transactions beforehand and which are re-assignable without actually spending the multisig transaction itself (reassigning a key would be a less data heavy operation

07:10 <Eliel> than actually making a spend of the multisig txout and potentially can affect multiple txouts at once)

07:11 <Eliel> this came to mind as I was pondering about the practical use of multiparty payment channels that were introduced in a recent paper.

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07:15 <Eliel> although, if re-assignment of a key is possible, then I have no solution currently in mind for how to reconcile that with the security assumptions of payment channels. If not properly designed, it's going to be worse for the payment channel reliability than malleability was

07:16 <Eliel> would need to have some way of ensuring that signatures with the old key, prior to the re-assignment of the signing key remain valid.

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14:36 <andytoshi> maaku: i'm not aware of any publicly verifiable but blinded EC hash function. i've wanted one from time to time but basically the only thing you can publicly verify is addition..

14:39 <andytoshi> maybe if you have a "times 10^6" generator A and "times 10^12" generator B, you can find a way to take a blinded asset A', replace it by A + A', then do a rangeproof with (A + 10^6A') as your base, which should be possible if A was origanally a commitment to a round number of millions of coins

14:39 <andytoshi> not sure, just spitballing here

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16:47 <maaku> .tell rusty cute, but I far prefer units which describe or imply what they are, even metaphorically. I'm going to keep calling it weight.

16:47 <yoleaux> maaku: I'll pass your message to rusty.

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18:18 <asdasdsa> Hello

18:18 <asdasdsa> i love my life

18:18 <asdasdsa> i love bitcoins

18:18 <asdasdsa> i love you all

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18:49 <nsh> andytoshi, can you help me understand how t(X) is an inner product of the two polynomials <l(X),r(X)>? i'd have thought that would have the same rank 1 as the l(X),r(X). the constructed t(X) has a term in X^2 and looks like the algebraic product of l(X) * r(X)

18:50 <nsh> code: t0 = <l0,r0>

18:50 <nsh> t2 = <l1,r1>

18:50 <nsh> t1 = (<l0,r1> + <l1,r0> )%N

18:50 <nsh> -- https://github.com/AdamISZ/bulletproofs-poc/blob/master/rangeproof.py#L89

18:54 <nsh> paper gives as: t(X) = <l(X),r(X)> = Sigma_i=0,2 [ t_i X^i ]

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19:08 <nsh> nm, i get it

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