<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: tools/atrf-proxy/atrf-proxy.c (cmd_zero): reduce poll delay from 100 ms to 2 ms http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/78ab017
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/board.c (reset_rf): increased 1 us delays to nominally 2 us http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/256ac01
<wpwrak>
time to rebuild the tools. (both host and ben)
<wpwrak>
okay. now the checking is pretty much the same as in the kernel. in fact, it's even tighter. the kernel driver is a bit sloppy on waiting for the PLL lock.
<wpwrak>
ah, regarding the atusb firmware, there will be at least one more update in the next days, to add proper interrupt support. so at least the early birds may get a chance to play with dfu-util ;-)
<tuxbrain>
rebuild install done
<wpwrak>
also stopped and then restarted atrf-proxy ?
<tuxbrain>
yep
<wpwrak>
perfect
<tuxbrain>
what now?
<wpwrak>
time atrf-xmit -p 15  usb net:ben  100
<wpwrak>
then  time atrf-xmit -p 15 net:ben usb  100
<tuxbrain>
time ./atrf-xmit.1 -p 15 usb net:ben 100
<tuxbrain>
100/100
<tuxbrain>
real0m2.286s
<tuxbrain>
user0m0.020s
<tuxbrain>
sys0m0.000s
<tuxbrain>
time ./atrf-xmit.1 -p 15 net:ben usb 100
<tuxbrain>
100/100
<tuxbrain>
real0m2.319s
<tuxbrain>
user0m0.020s
<tuxbrain>
sys0m0.000s
<tuxbrain>
I have a better ben/usb/host combination than yours :P
<wpwrak>
heh ;-) may actually be something like that :)
<wpwrak>
the difference doesn't make a lot of sense, so i'm happier with your result. just wanted to be sure it's for real.
<wpwrak>
deleting those x86 executables again ...
<wpwrak>
alright. i think i can let you sleep now ;-)
<tuxbrain>
that's all ? :P
<wpwrak>
i'll try to think of an explanation for the MOSI/nSS/etc. weirdness
<tuxbrain>
ok
<wpwrak>
it actually makes a little sense that nSS would now pop up too, because it was not properly configured before
<wpwrak>
and if the problem is truly in the pull-up/down resistors, MOSI, nSS, and SCLK would all be potential troublemakers
<wpwrak>
so what i'll do is measure the pull-up/down strength. maybe this will give me some new ideas.
<tuxbrain>
My next steps will be flash a bunch of atusb, setup properly the web content of the shop and make a annoucement post (not publish  until I have at least a bunch of checked atben/atusb)
<wpwrak>
great
<tuxbrain>
ok just tell me how we should mesure this
<wpwrak>
also, please review my commercial description
<tuxbrain>
yes, I was also on it... how to test the distance?
<wpwrak>
(measure) ideally with a lab power supply, a few resistors, and a very sensitive voltmeter
<wpwrak>
ah yes, that one. lemme look it up ...
<wpwrak>
on the ben, run  atrf-txrx -P -p 3
<wpwrak>
on the pc: atrf-txrx -P 1 -p 3
<wpwrak>
then move them apart until you stop seeing a . appear every second
<wpwrak>
(all this is without atrf-proxy and such)
<wpwrak>
(and you either want a very long usb cable, or run on battery ;-)
<tuxbrain>
ok
<tuxbrain>
the a will apear on ben or on PC?
<tuxbrain>
on ben I supose
<wpwrak>
both will show similar things
<tuxbrain>
ok
<tuxbrain>
time to sleep
<wpwrak>
they synchronize with each other. what the characters mean:
<wpwrak>
. = successful exchange (both ways)
<tuxbrain>
continue
<wpwrak>
* = one-way reception (i.e., the other side sent something but didn't acknowledge our last packet)
<wpwrak>
- = a garbled packet
<tuxbrain>
and then            the silence
<wpwrak>
+ = no reception, so we timed out and generated a new packet (you get this one only on the machine that had the timeout value after -P) the other simply waits
<tuxbrain>
ok I wil do that test tomorrow, now time to sleep if there were dots inside my rf madness house will be a total success :)
<wpwrak>
you can also change some more parameters. if you're in wlan hell, maybe first check the spectrum with
<wpwrak>
atrf-rssi -g
<wpwrak>
(either on the pc or on the ben)
<tuxbrain>
oh beautiful :)
<wpwrak>
ah, on the ben, if you have jlime. otherwise, no SDL :)
<tuxbrain>
lot of movement on the 11-13 band :) as expected
<wpwrak>
to set the channel in atrf-txrx: -c CHAN
<wpwrak>
the default channel is 15
<tuxbrain>
cool is the most clean one :)
<wpwrak>
note that the channel numbers are not the same as for WiFi.
<tuxbrain>
well whatever 15 is almost clean
<wpwrak>
i could actually show the wifi channels too. there's enough space ...
<wpwrak>
the ping test works with the 250 kbps standard data rate. if you want to go faster, you can use  -r 500k  or  -r 1M  or  -r 2M
<wpwrak>
the faster you go, the shorter the range
<tuxbrain>
ok will be also fine to see how much distance we can achive at those rates too
<wpwrak>
yup :)
<tuxbrain>
now yes I will go to sleep, mmm dreaming on 2Mbit rates :)
<wpwrak>
speedy dreams ! ;-)
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: wrt Nokia CTO calling it quits, just wanted to say that in most such large companies, the mode of operation of holders of specific titles is quite standardized, so that people inside the company quickly understand how things can work.
<wolfspraul>
and 'cto' is often misunderstood from the engineering side as the 'super engineer' who has all sorts of powers, but actually not at all.
<wolfspraul>
most of the time, the CTO has the right to stop any project, but he cannot start any project
<wolfspraul>
it's a very defensive role, like an insurance against something that is technically impossible
<wolfspraul>
so even though I agree with you that Nokia is on a massive self-destruct mission, the CTO stepping down wouldn't worry me from the outside
<wpwrak>
ah, i thought there were more strategic elements in that role
<wpwrak>
so it's basically controlling
<wolfspraul>
can stop anything
<wolfspraul>
that's a big power
<wolfspraul>
but cannot start anything :-)
<wolfspraul>
that's the downside, he he
<wolfspraul>
of course I don't know Nokia specifically, but that's how it is normally
<wolfspraul>
with that title
<wpwrak>
a job for hooligans ;-)
<wolfspraul>
the CTO will be blamed if something becomes a tech disaster
<wolfspraul>
"why didn't you stop this?"
<wpwrak>
always good to have some whipping boys around :)
<wolfspraul>
well, you know engineers are sometimes, what shall we say... a bit too optimistic? :-)
<wpwrak>
not if you ask them whether they can do X until firm deadline Y ;-)
<wolfspraul>
ah, Rich Green :-) That was the guy at Sun who always hated Sun's open source strategy..., if I remember correctly
<wpwrak>
hated it for what ?
<wolfspraul>
I forgot the details, could be wrong. RIP Sun...
<wolfspraul>
he's a long-time Sun guy anyway, 20 years or so
<wolfspraul>
I'm still rooting for Nokia, they don't deserve to go down like this. oh well.
<wpwrak>
seems that they don't get what they deserve
<wolfspraul>
some strange things happening there. No more forecast for 2011?
<wolfspraul>
that's unbelievable
<wolfspraul>
a company this size without forecast? unbelievable, really
<wpwrak>
well, the board of directors could still attempt a u-turn. not sure if this would help, though
<wolfspraul>
I cannot begin to imagine what's going on inside. Probably massive infighting everywhere.
<wolfspraul>
oh everybody comes to the office every day to fight, that's for sure
<wolfspraul>
unfortunately it will make it sink faster
<wolfspraul>
no more forecast, aargh
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer mentioned that nokia employees are already publicly daydreaming about killing elop. let's see how long until one snaps.
<wolfspraul>
their credit rating is close to junk already
<wolfspraul>
again, "no more forecast", you just cannot do this
<wolfspraul>
you just cannot
<wolfspraul>
let's see how many months they sail without forecast now
<wolfspraul>
eventually they have to come out with one again, he he
<wpwrak>
maybe the forecast would be worse than all speculation ? :)
<wolfspraul>
yes maybe
<wolfspraul>
but then it still needs to be on the table IMMEDIATELY
<wolfspraul>
such a large company doesn't live in a hole, or another planet
<wolfspraul>
it has a whole ecosystem around it
<wolfspraul>
with "we have no forecast" they initiate mass defections everywhere that will be hard to turn around
<wolfspraul>
their partners will draw down investments
<wolfspraul>
all over the place, they won't even know where
<wpwrak>
maybe it takes a while for these whose heads would be on the chopping blocks to move their assets to places without extradition agreements ?
<wolfspraul>
I have no forecast for Sharism, and that's unprofessional
<wolfspraul>
but at least there are not many partners that suffer from that
<wolfspraul>
but Nokia????
<wolfspraul>
I cannot believe it
<wolfspraul>
anyway
<wolfspraul>
we all learn. I don't remember ever watching something like this.
<wolfspraul>
how many months without forecast? My bet: 6
<wpwrak>
sharism ought to have a roadmap. when you talk to potential investors, wouldn't they notice the red flag as much as you do in the case of nokia ?
<wolfspraul>
now I can proudly say I am as clueless about the future as Nokia
<wolfspraul>
whatever happens happens
<wolfspraul>
we have the same professional management :-)
<wpwrak>
;-)
<wpwrak>
well, maybe tepco are setting the new standards. nokia are just very trendy :)
<wolfspraul>
yes, roadmap and forecast same thing here
<wolfspraul>
roadmap + numbers = forecast
<wolfspraul>
numbers are very important because the busines needs to be confident to be able to deliver that
<wolfspraul>
and who should know if not them?
<wolfspraul>
should outsiders go around and make a forecast for Nokia????
<wpwrak>
well, 0 income and all the same old expenses until the windows phone in ... 2013, right ? that's easy to calculate :)
<wpwrak>
layoffs don't really change the equation in that time frame
<wolfspraul>
"It added that it could no longer provide a full-year forecast."
<wolfspraul>
kristianpaul: why do you think it's a joke?
<kristianpaul>
well, i dont see the sense of that kind of annoucement coming from openmoko list
<DocScrutinizer>
hehe
<wolfspraul>
I've long stopped trying to define 'insanity'. Let me see what Wikipedia says :-)
<kristianpaul>
i mean shiftd? sharing videos.. well is not bad, just it cant fit on my mind
<kristianpaul>
from where it come of course :-)
<wolfspraul>
it's all fine by me :-) joke or not, laugh or not, success or not, whatever...
<wolfspraul>
they launched FRAME* before, I think. something like that. getting busy now :-)
<DocScrutinizer>
thinks to know some ID-photos that show up on wiki's def of insanity
<DocScrutinizer>
(<wolfspraul> maybe Joerg buys another N900...) I'd actually like to, as soon as I got the money, alas I think they're not on sale anymore
<DocScrutinizer>
see my comment about wikipedia above
<DocScrutinizer>
I'm not sure about the forecast bit you mentioned
<wolfspraul>
you mean it's ok to give up on it?
<DocScrutinizer>
I don't know what you're refering to. Should I know?
<wolfspraul>
I think with this kind of statement ("unable to provide"), many partners around them will put investments on hold immediately
<DocScrutinizer>
( <wolfspraul> DocScrutinizer: see!? I knew it. Our forecast builds up...)
<wolfspraul>
DocScrutinizer: that Nokia said they are unable to provide a forecast for 2011
<wolfspraul>
ah sorry
<wolfspraul>
DocScrutinizer: we were chatting about Nokia earlier
<wolfspraul>
I was shocked about Nokia saying they are unable to provide a forecast for 2011 now.
<DocScrutinizer>
got as much
<wolfspraul>
so we were joking that we need to help Nokia with a forecast. Werner suggested 0. But I thought we can add at least one for your N900 purchase :-)
<wolfspraul>
that's all
<wolfspraul>
just meaningless chat for fun :-)
<wolfspraul>
maybe Meego will be spun off in some way, including manufacturing ability
<DocScrutinizer>
aaah, related to my desire for more N900s
<wolfspraul>
that'd be cool
<wolfspraul>
yes
<DocScrutinizer>
I thought we talked about frm 2 years ago, got puzzled
<DocScrutinizer>
(meego spinoff) that alterego guy didn't come back yet, also didn't answer further oings from me
<DocScrutinizer>
pings*
<DocScrutinizer>
guess it's been just another booze-talk
<DocScrutinizer>
I really wonder how they managed to get that tick Elop in their fur. Obviously he's killing nokia for good, and no doubt what's the plan behind it
<DocScrutinizer>
yawns and waves
<wpwrak>
too bad it's still way too early for the 100th anniversary of the hindenburg. the crashing and the burning would be quite comparable
<DocScrutinizer>
ponders an idle peek on NOK trend
<DocScrutinizer>
must hit penny stock range meanwhile
<tuxbrain>
anybody understand that shiftd.com ...?
<tuxbrain>
(framed) wow an i5 for an kiosk setup!!! not much power saver indeed
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: i measured the pull up/pull down resistors. they're quite weak. pull-up about 80 kOhm, pull-down about 150 kOhm. this should still allow them to work, but there's not much margin for error.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: on atben, all the GPIO tests pass without trouble, correct ?
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: fab/m1/: quick and dirty adaptation of prettygerbv and drl2gerber to M1 http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/2a6496d
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: fab/m1/prettygerbv: feeble attempt at showing at least some layer connectivity http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/4e48491
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: yes atben no GPIO problem at all
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: (resistors) you mean next batch we will have to use another ones?
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: (next batch) no, it may simply be that the test is too fragile. it doesn't test a particularly critical condition. its main purpose is to spot shorted or broken traces, and that's easiest in this particular condition
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: only in the US ... :)
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: i'm still curious about the voltage levels, though. i haven't quite convinced myself that the whole thing is truly harmless.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: and i'm also curious what your range test yield :)
<rjeffries>
wpwrak once tuxbrian starts selling the atben and atusb products, what communication can the buyer do "out of the box??
<kristianpaul>
hehe :-)
<kristianpaul>
Surelly software support can be added in nanonote-openwrt at least for "dirt" pan?
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: right now, very little. but yes, dirtpan isn't so far behind
<rjeffries_>
wpwrak love your branding. sounds mildly p0rn0graphic
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: [...] and all the really simple things (UDP) probably work perfectly
<wpwrak>
rjeffries_: you mean "dirtpan" ?
<rjeffries_>
yes sir
<rjeffries_>
and it is also cheaper than dirt
<wpwrak>
heh, you should have seen one of the things i did at openmoko. there's a script that installs all the firmware and stuff on a device fresh from the factory.
<wpwrak>
guess what i called it ? "devirginator".
<wpwrak>
that one was actually shipped to the factory, where a bunch of factory workers, women of gentle age, were running it from the command line.
<wpwrak>
(something like one or two thousand times, once per device)
<kristianpaul>
jeje
<whitequark>
just received a chinese 1W WiFi dongle
<wpwrak>
1 W ? wow
<whitequark>
there is a Ralink RT3070L chip and (as it was found on one site) a custom Chinese-made RF frontend
<whitequark>
yeah. beyond every certification and illegal to import to Russia (there is a 10mW limit for any unlicensed RF range)
<wpwrak>
"chinese-made" because it says so or because it looks bad ? :)
<whitequark>
because everything on the box is written in Chinese :)
<wpwrak>
okay :)
<whitequark>
also, it contains a BackTrack Linux LiveCD and an illustrated instruction for cracking WEP points
<wpwrak>
;-))
<whitequark>
and there's more!
<whitequark>
they've decided to make it a little cheaper... and didn't soldered an RF shield.
<whitequark>
(there is place for it on PCB)
<wpwrak>
if they also included instructions for getting through the chinese firewall, then they'd have made the whole world their enemy ;-)
<whitequark>
so the components are all exposed (it also has an external antenna, so it definitely can and should be shielded itself)
<wpwrak>
well, maybe add a picture of Muhammad on the box, just to be sure
<whitequark>
:)
<wpwrak>
with those little wpan devices, we probably get away without shielding. 1 W wifi, though ... :)
<whitequark>
an FCC nightmare
<whitequark>
oh, and the customs declaration was funny too. they've specified, literally, "NETWORKING"
<kristianpaul>
how do i recover a git stahs?
<kristianpaul>
stash*
<whitequark>
kristianpaul: git stash apply
<wpwrak>
that's when the FCC inspector asks for the keys to the storage room with the hellfire missiles ...
<kristianpaul>
the point is i need to create another branch
<wpwrak>
git stash list  ... then pick the one you need
<kristianpaul>
but from the commit and uncommtied changes i had done
<wpwrak>
hmm, currently 24 stashes on ben-wpan. not that i'd really intend to use any of them ...
<whitequark>
wpwrak: I'm going to take some photos of the device, probably
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: he :-)
<kristianpaul>
a hurry up when changing branches i guess?
<wpwrak>
whitequark: be careful. that sort of pornography may be illegal even in russia
<whitequark>
wpwrak: anyway, the thingie works really great. my internal Atheros card reports an RSSI of -35 to -40 on my network (AP in ~2 meters), and the chinese one says it is -15 dBm. and also it sees twice as lot of neighboor APs...
<wpwrak>
wow, so they also improved the receiver sensitivity. that's good.
<whitequark>
they say it can work up to 500m indoors and 1000-2000m outdoors (with _omnidirectional_ antenna!)
<wpwrak>
you and that card, ruler of the city !
<whitequark>
Moscow is somewhat bigger than 2km in radius... it's more like 18km
<whitequark>
but hey, it was $20, and there are 18dB yagi's of roughly the same cost
<kristianpaul>
ah, just WEP, i tought WPA2 was already brokable
<kristianpaul>
;-)
<whitequark>
kristianpaul: you can capture a 4-way handshake and then run a dictionary attach
<whitequark>
given how stupid people sometimes are, that works in surprisingly many cases
<kristianpaul>
you'll wonder, all my neighboords use wpa2 :/
<wpwrak>
whitequark: you have to pick a strategically important place for your lair with the RF to rule them all. no point in domineering the outskirts. peasant revolutions are so last millennium.
<kristianpaul>
needs a good antenna for satellite listening
<wpwrak>
oh, quite large. thought it was just a USB dongle.
<whitequark>
wpwrak: the dongle itself is much smaller than it looks like
<whitequark>
searches for his camera
<kristianpaul>
receivr is almost done, actually migrate a code made for lpt is not so hard when having a ubb :-)
<whitequark>
kristianpaul: actually, I didn't buy that for using someone others' wifi illegally. there is simply no point in that when you have a cheap symmetrical 20Mbit connection. it's more for connecting to free public networks in strange places, or in some other areas where AP is far away
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: so you're #3 to actually do something with UBB, after tuxbrain and myself ? welcome to the club !
<whitequark>
wpwrak: the intention of buying ben was somewhat damaged after I've seen that the only option is FedEx, for 2/3 of Ben's cost. is this really a sole option?
<kristianpaul>
whitequark: (20Mbit) i hope i could said that
<wpwrak>
whitequark: wolfgang can probably ship it anyway you want. or if not wolfgang, then tuxbrain
<whitequark>
wpwrak: if the tuxbrain can ship the whole package (ben, atben and atusb), that would be really great
<whitequark>
*without "the"
<kristianpaul>
whitequark: (illegally.) oh no, i'm happy with my conection, just wondering the world wide implication of brokable security layes in all kind of wireless networks/infrastucures
<wpwrak>
whitequark: the big advantage of fedex is of course that there's less risk of endless customs delays and such
<whitequark>
wpwrak: somehow DealExtreme has no problem getting through the customs with all sorts of weird and definitely illegal stuff
<whitequark>
and they just use tracked airmail
<wpwrak>
whitequark: maybe the magic is in the "NETWORKING" ;-)
<whitequark>
wpwrak: probably. I've once received a package from them with declated contents, literally, "WEIRD STUFFS"
<wpwrak>
hopefully in chinese ;-)
<whitequark>
in plain English, of course
<whitequark>
(otherwise I wouldn't be able to read that...)
<wpwrak>
you could have google translated it :)
<wpwrak>
fot atben/atusb, i used 847330. Parts and Accessories of the Automatic Data Processing Machines
<wpwrak>
(i very carefully left out any mention of RF)
<whitequark>
wonders what number "weird stuffs" correspond to...
<whitequark>
42 maybe
<whitequark>
wpwrak: so, is that customs stuff more strict in Europe?
<wpwrak>
they may be about RF. europe and us.
<wpwrak>
in argentina, they usually hunt for things like power cables and adapters. easier to find.
<whitequark>
huh? power cables? what's the point for restricting import of these?
<whitequark>
(customs stuff) I was asking because I've seen declarations from China, Britain and US, and none of them had any catalogue numbers like an example you've shown
<wpwrak>
if ther'es a power cable in the box, it probably connects to something. this something will almost certainly not have the argentina seal of approval. hence a reason to stop the shipment and see how much it is worth to you to still have it ...
<whooo>
hi, does anyone have a working version of fw_env.config for the nanonote, found in a git repo, but it doesn't work, fw_printenv just tells me Bad CRC and some default values
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: wanna start a fight with whitequark ? his 1 W wifi vs. your jammer ? it's the wrong frequency, though. but maybe the harmonics are strong enough anyway ;-)
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: no, actually i need one of those for gsm signal blocking
<whitequark>
wpwrak: there are all sorts of jammers on DX. GPS, GSM, WiFi, 3G, anything you could imagine
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: girlfriend on the phone all the time ? ;-)
<whitequark>
I think that maybe half of products they're selling are (illegal, of course) transceivers, amplifiers and jammers
<whitequark>
wpwrak: (power cable) do they open the boxes then? or use X-rays?
<wpwrak>
whitequark: dunno if they xray them before opening. they look at pretty much everything.
<wpwrak>
whitequark: they even find cheques in mail. and steal them, of course.
<whitequark>
now knows a postal system worse than russian
<whitequark>
maybe you'll spot something interesting in RF pathway...
<whitequark>
ah, I forgot the dimensions. it is 59x75x13mm, and with a 17cm antenna
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: anything do you want to improve on the testing thing? I can take it as is as valid?
<tuxbrain>
anything more you want I try?
<jluis>
tuxbrain, can I help in any way du ring the testing?
<tuxbrain>
jluis I go to girona this weekend and I will bring the thigs there to perform as much as posible but if there's is work to do on the tuesday I will be happy to accept help :)
<jluis>
It's a deal dude!
<jluis>
just point me to the docs ;)Â Â
<jluis>
here or by mail. It's your chice? Links ! Links ! links!
<tuxbrain>
things start not not be just dots at 11-12 meters
<wpwrak>
nice :)
<wpwrak>
10 m is the intended range for WPAN (presumably free from obstructions). so all this is very good.
<tuxbrain>
voltage of that pin is 3,25V after the test run
<tuxbrain>
also on a fresh plug is 3,25V
<wpwrak>
and during this ?  atrf-gpio -p HHHHoH1H.HxHxHxHh.ohzoHoHH delay=10000
<wpwrak>
let's make it  atrf-gpio -p HHHHoH1H.HxHxHxHh.ohzoHoHH delay=100000
<wpwrak>
then you don't have to rush ;-)
<wpwrak>
ah, does it complain ?
<tuxbrain>
it goes down to 3,23V during the 10s and then return to 3,25
<kristianpaul>
10m, cool !
<tuxbrain>
no complains
<tuxbrain>
starting 1Mbit range test
<kristianpaul>
:D
<wpwrak>
hmm. but it should complain ;-)
<wpwrak>
"make usb" still fails then ?
<kristianpaul>
(should complain) i dont get this guys..
<wpwrak>
mompls. afk for 5 min
<tuxbrain>
I have to buy a bigger flat :) 1M still maitains sending packages after some orientation at 12 meters :) , with 250-500k orientation was not so meaningful but with 1M yes, changing NN position can turn off the signal almost completly at 12M but at right position almost all packages are sended recieved (2% lose)
<tuxbrain>
12meters not 12Mbits :P
<LunaFrizzle>
Hi all
<LunaFrizzle>
Hard times
<tuxbrain>
hi luna
<LunaFrizzle>
Studying for the finals
<LunaFrizzle>
Hi tuxbrain :)
<LunaFrizzle>
Are you... the whole tuxbrain into one person ?
<tuxbrain>
almost :)
<tuxbrain>
we are 1 working full time there (me) and Victor my partner working at partial time
<LunaFrizzle>
Oh :o
<LunaFrizzle>
I knew the tuxbrain website but I though so far that it was a bigger team
<tuxbrain>
I have to be glad then :)
<LunaFrizzle>
Hehe
<LunaFrizzle>
I was really impressed back with the Arduino + Ben Nanonote video
<LunaFrizzle>
As well as the other SDIO one
<LunaFrizzle>
As a matter of fact, I plan to dig up this when my finals will be finished to make some things
<LunaFrizzle>
Or at least try
<LunaFrizzle>
SDIO and other bitbanging stuffs make me realize that computers (regular ones)Â Â can be used as "very big arduinos" in some way
<tuxbrain>
Test at 2M 7meters, with good orientation, after that even with orientation signal start loose Not bad :)
<LunaFrizzle>
I'll have to dig up also how to code for the parallel port :)
<tuxbrain>
LunaFrizzle: Great I will be very happy enrol you in the ArduNote thing :)
<LunaFrizzle>
Hehe
<LunaFrizzle>
I just need to become rich so I'll be able to buy lot of electronic components
<LunaFrizzle>
And a decent soldering iron :/
<Fusin>
hi qiots ;)
<tuxbrain>
That was my excuse to create tuxbrain :P
<LunaFrizzle>
Oh becoming rich haha
<tuxbrain>
Ok I have to retry this test with more atben/atusb pairs but, I think I will be save to put in the comercial description
<tuxbrain>
250k to 500k 10m
<LunaFrizzle>
hi Fusin
<tuxbrain>
1M-2M 5 meters
<LunaFrizzle>
tuxbrain, well so far the Efika (at last ! it's available !) looks very interesting but I don't want to sold one of my kidneys to buy one ;)
<tuxbrain>
common you sell your kidneys very cheap dude :)
<tuxbrain>
LunaFrizzle:Â Â where are you from?
<LunaFrizzle>
tuxbrain, France
<LunaFrizzle>
tuxbrain, I've just spent too much money buying an Amstrad CPC 464, an Amiga 500 and a C64
<LunaFrizzle>
(this month)
<LunaFrizzle>
So I need to seriously calm down
<tuxbrain>
HAHAHA ok ok don't worry, Efika's will still there next month :)
<LunaFrizzle>
Hehe tuxbrain I wish that was the only thing I wanted to buy
<tuxbrain>
meanwhile you put me on the first item on "next month shoppinglist"Â Â for me is enough , you al so want a pair of atben/atusb? they are just out of the fab oven, they are still hot }:P
<LunaFrizzle>
I wonder if it's possible to do Serial prot programming when you are using an USB to RS232 cable, or do you need to have documentation from the manufacturer
<LunaFrizzle>
Haha non I already have an arduino and a nanonote tuxbrain but thanks :)
<LunaFrizzle>
But I'll definitely buy a UBB for sure
<tuxbrain>
well dudes, I need to sleep badly.
<LunaFrizzle>
Even though I found that 4+ euros may be a bit expensive for a small piece of pcb but I'm sure that the more reasonnable price you could get
<tuxbrain>
next range test atben vs atben two NN talking each other wirelessly for first time , good night
<wpwrak>
sorry, took a bit longer
<wpwrak>
LunaFrizzle: (ubb) it's all a function of the quantity. pcb-making has a high setup cost. the per-unit cost is almost nothing. so if tuxbrain could sell thousands of units, the price would be maybe 50 cents.
<wpwrak>
ah, tuxbrain escaped. well, then i have more time to mess up the firmware :-)
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/: SET_INTERFACE can now select among interfaces (changes user_setup) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/89d13ce
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/: define USB bus current (40 mA) in board.h based on measured value http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/3cc92cc
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/usb/dfu.h: define DFU interface descriptor, for later sharing http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/7a2c785
<wpwrak>
i realized that i hadn't done current measurements yet. so i did them today. all is as expected. cleaned up the values indicated on USB
<wpwrak>
LunaFrizzle: tuxbrain's fabs in spain are a bit expensive, but they also help if there are small problems. you basically get a review as part of the package. considering that these things were my first designs that were industrially produced and i think that this was also tuxbrain's first board, having more eyes look at things is a good idea.
<whitequark>
wpwrak: may I ask, what were you doing previously?
<wpwrak>
LunaFrizzle: if you go with a half-baked design to china, chances are that they'll just do what you told them, or improvise some correction that may or may not be successful.
<wpwrak>
whitequark: before qi-hw ? openmoko (system level stuff). before that, i had a project with philips research (real-time file i/o in the kernel). my general background is low-level system sw, kernel and such. you may have heard of one of my earlier projects: the lilo boot loader.
<wpwrak>
whitequark: and i also have a background in networking. layer 2 and above. i ran the linux-atm project as part of that work.
<wpwrak>
whitequark: my current foray into electronics is something where i can relive childhood memories of being a clueless newbie again ;-)
<LunaFrizzle>
wpwrak, ok I understand :)
<LunaFrizzle>
wpwrak, I would like to learn more about "bitbanging" (understanding "programming the parallel por/serial port") but so far as you know, modern computers (and laptops since I'm using a netbook 95% of the time) doesnot have either of theses outputs. However, USB to Serial cable does exist. As USB to Parallel port are only designed for printer and nothing else, are USB to RS232 usable when it comes to serial port
<LunaFrizzle>
programming ? I know that mini pcie card does exist for adding both parallel and serial port on my netbook but they are a bit pricey (60euros min).
<wpwrak>
LunaFrizzle: it all depends a lot on what you want to do. the usual usb-serial cables have the problem of using voltages regular logic doesn't like (+/- 12 V). there are 3.3 V cables, though, but you won't find them at the shop down the street.
<wpwrak>
LunaFrizzle: also, if you take a usb-to-"dump chip" solution, you have high overhead and latency
<wpwrak>
LunaFrizzle: often, it's preferable to have "local intelligence" right next to the circuit you want to talk to. that way, you can send higher-level commands to the local cpu, and let that one worry about low-level operations.
<LunaFrizzle>
wpwrak, afair I have an 3.3v USB to RS232 cable at home (i bought it to use with an arduino mini)
<wpwrak>
LunaFrizzle: examples of such an arrangement would be ben+UBB or the MCU+RF combination in atusb
<LunaFrizzle>
wpwrak, hum ok
<wpwrak>
FTDI+arduino would be another example
<wpwrak>
actually, i think they're now switching to atmel usb chip. but it's the same concept.
<LunaFrizzle>
wpwrak, I have that
<LunaFrizzle>
Ok
<whitequark>
wpwrak: just found that DX has also 1.5W and 2W versions of the dongle
<LunaFrizzle>
wpwrak, so buying a mini pcie card for parallel port is a good idea ?
<wpwrak>
what's nice about the ben is that it's a real linux system. so you have all the usual system features (networking, file system, etc.) and a regular development environment, with all the usual libraries and such
<LunaFrizzle>
wpwrak, here's the only one I've found, it's name is the PEX1S1PMINI
<wpwrak>
LunaFrizzle: depends on how many I/Os you need. i'd rather use something like the ben. it's also cheaper if something goes wrong and you end up sending, say, 220 V into the computer ;-)
<LunaFrizzle>
Haha
<LunaFrizzle>
No no wpwrak I'm planning to use that on a netbook powered by a 11v battery
<LunaFrizzle>
14v PSU at worst
<wpwrak>
whitequark: i suppose that, once you decide that standards compliance is not your thing, your just take it as far as you can ;-)
<LunaFrizzle>
(19,5v actually, my bad)
<wpwrak>
11-14 V should already make a nice cloud of smoke ;-)
<LunaFrizzle>
Haha
<LunaFrizzle>
wpwrak, I'll start with the Ben, but the question was for "what when i'll need more I/O and make bigger stuffs ?"
<LunaFrizzle>
wpwrak, the more I use my ben, the more I think I should buy another one that would stay in the box... "just in case"
<LunaFrizzle>
wpwrak, so far the chargin led broke a little when I teared it appart one time
<wpwrak>
"broke a little" ;-))
<LunaFrizzle>
wpwrak, maybe the soldering was too weak I don't know
<LunaFrizzle>
wpwrak, yeah yeah sorry ._.
<LunaFrizzle>
wpwrak, it still works but it have to be in the "good position"
<LunaFrizzle>
wpwrak, led pins, very interesting
<wpwrak>
the lead-free solder is a pain. it's very brittle. the old leaded ones were flexible and would also provide mechanical support. with lead-free, that's almost completely gone.
<qi-bot>
[commit] Sergey Kukunin: Fix segmentation fault when try show Manual on Explorer or other service apps http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/28fe39c
<LunaFrizzle>
wpwrak, so far that means that if I use the lcd pins i'll have to access the terminal via the TXD/RXD pins ? Also that my Ben will be... or won't be like before ever (but anyway)
<wpwrak>
LunaFrizzle: well, that's for the case that you want to dedicate a board at that purpose, yes. you also still have USB, which is probably what you would use most of the time.
<LunaFrizzle>
wpwrak, oh yeah I ironically forgot about it
<wpwrak>
LunaFrizzle: if you want to optimize your process, you can also get a dedicated prototyping board, such as the new SIE. that should be cheaper than a ben. but i don't know how well the software support is. http://linuxencaja.com/images/9/9d/SIE_KICAD.png
<LunaFrizzle>
wpwrak, now we're talking :)
<Fusin>
hi LunaFrizzle  & all who are awake here ;)
<wpwrak>
LunaFrizzle: but if you just need a small number of boards for experiements, you're probably better off with a single platform. the few euros you safe with a cheaper board you waste maintaining parallel development environments (which in the end means that you'll abandon most of them)
<wpwrak>
e.g., i have a while pile of openmoko phones with debug board and so on. i could use them also for embedded control. but it's just too much work. so i do everything with ben+ubb now.
<wpwrak>
s/while/whole/
<wpwrak>
also platform dependencies get worse if you share code with others. e.g., i can't just write things that work only with gcc 1.something from '92. if i'd do things only for my personal use, i could do this, and never have to worry about updates.