<kristianpaul>
hum, how to reverser a downcovertion
<kristianpaul>
as the current state of namutu correlator seems to not be happy with SiGE serial out put, and in the case i re-reverse the serialization, does it mean is all what i needed to do?
<kristianpaul>
hum..
<kristianpaul>
well, i guess taking just the sign will be just be enought
<kristianpaul>
is multiplexing the DSP (not for mobile, but still smart move)
<kristianpaul>
uses  a LUT for correlator C/A ..
<DocScrutinizer>
1 bit ADC is simple
<DocScrutinizer>
that's why you use it ;-)
<tuxbrain>
I can stay connected briefly but two things:
<tuxbrain>
or maybe more :P
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: http://www.tinyos.net/ sais it has a full stack of 6LoWPAN/RPL/CoAP stack may be worth the effort to take a look
<kyak>
tuxbrain: have you checked if it is possible to order now with Fedex to Russia?
<tuxbrain>
After a brief meeting with an Tecnician of a RF (Wifi,BT...) integrator company, that I convice him to take a look at atben/atusb he advice me that whatever coverage(silicone, resine, pvc, even paper or wood) we put in the antenna will affect it badly his proposal is to use resine in mostly all the device but the antena part.
<kyak>
(before you disappear again :) )
<tuxbrain>
kyak, yes fedex is more reliable and at least as "cheap" UPS, but I have not time yet to upload the fedex info to the shop meanwhile we can arrage it via proforma and email.
<kyak>
should i just order via tuxbrain.com and then we will continue by e-mail?
<tuxbrain>
kyak , how do you plan to pay? bank transfer? credit card? paypal?
<DocScrutinizer>
tuxbrain: (antenna & resin) good advice
<kyak>
tuxbrain: it's paypal
<kyak>
tuxbrain: but i need to know the cost beforehand
<DocScrutinizer>
tuxbrain: we thought you collapsed under the zillions of orders after /.  :-D
<tuxbrain>
send me a mail with the items you want to buy and I will send you a proforma invoice with the prices
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: (partial resin cover) okay, that would also work. a bit fragile, but possible. did you have a chance to test the cured sugru ?
<kyak>
tuxbrain: ok, that i will do
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: oh, and please don't forget to send me the tracking number when you ship my devices
<tuxbrain>
DocScrutinizer: No not so , I have collapsed buy zillion of things to do apart of attend de some "atben/atusb" orders, + some questions rised + some proposals :)
<DocScrutinizer>
wpwrak: tuxbrain: my suggestion would be along the path of shoving PCB into some bag like thing, like shrink tube, or similar
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: tracking sure
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: (sugru test) not yet sorry, no any time window now to perform such test a pair of weeks.
<DocScrutinizer>
you could build cases from two pieces of flat plastic sealed at the edge around with silicon or sth
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: btw, has the excellent press coverage rejon triggered led to any sales pickup so far ?
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: very inexact :-(
<DocScrutinizer>
yes
<DocScrutinizer>
go for acrylic that you can get in any custom profile you order
<DocScrutinizer>
get a flat U profile, cut two pieces, glue together to get a nice rectangular tube
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: (tinyos) they seem to target devices that are still fairly big. e.g., an ATmega128. ours is a 32 (already the biggest model in that series)
<DocScrutinizer>
place a chork on top
<DocScrutinizer>
you can get a meter of such profile for a few $$ at specialized shops
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: sounds like a lot of work
<DocScrutinizer>
sure not more work that messing with sticky resin
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: the idea is to outsource the work to the customer ;-)
<DocScrutinizer>
wait, 2*100 < 2^8
<DocScrutinizer>
I'd cut that in like 15 min for you
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: what kind of equipment do you have that can cut through 7 layers of profiles ? laser swords ? ;-)
<DocScrutinizer>
kreissaege
<DocScrutinizer>
no problem
<tuxbrain>
(press coverage) I don't think it rise sales directly but @firefox and @JohnFMoore are following @tuxbrain on twitter :) , yes I believe a lot more people now know what qi-hardware is and what we are looking for, no is time to no disapoint the real target (fredoom lovers) the MS and Ithing lovers are lost from the begining :)
<DocScrutinizer>
buzz saw
<DocScrutinizer>
(hail ding)
<DocScrutinizer>
tuxbrain: indeed :-D
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: hehe, kewl. let's hope it also has an effect on sales. no money, no fun. well, unless your grocery store also becomes one of your follower and they let you have your food for free ;)
<DocScrutinizer>
*cough*
<DocScrutinizer>
doesn't fly, tested that
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: (lost from the beginning) yes, no need to worry about those iDiots ;-)
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: (tinyos) but the 6LoWPAN/RPL/CoAP stack cannot be a start point to port it to linux?
<DocScrutinizer>
(case) what's about revambing dirt cheap usb keyring dongles?
<DocScrutinizer>
revamping
<kyak>
tuxbrain: i just sent the e-mail
<tuxbrain>
at least is the only place where I see it announced clear as a working implemented 6lowpan stack
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: roh looked into that. didn't find anything that fit
<DocScrutinizer>
mhm
<tuxbrain>
under bsd licence
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: (tinyos) maybe
<DocScrutinizer>
a task we need to outsource to our taipei branch of community ;-D
<DocScrutinizer>
wpwrak: you know how Pustefix soap bubbles came to market? They recycled WW-2 ammo, iirc the empty brass tubes left over from flak
<tuxbrain>
DocScrutinizer: dont worry about cover , if resin is the way to go we have some companies here that can do the job, and also Victor is quite good in such kind of manualities to do some tests, I this is more mater to have atusb working with standard 6lowpan than cover it or not that will make it a real success :)
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: i think we just need to see how things go with simple substances that can act as a cover. while they certainly have some effect on the RF, it's not as if plastic-covered antennas  were unheard of.
<DocScrutinizer>
no, just they get detuned. Different dielectic constant
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: As the RF guys tellme, but they where designed with the pastic cover in mind :)
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: hmm, we could try brass tubes. they ought to produce very predictable results :)
<DocScrutinizer>
remember the advice about PCB material and thickness?
<DocScrutinizer>
wpwrak: indeed ;-P
<wpwrak>
i guess we'll just have to try.it's not as if the antenna was perfectly tuned anyway. so it may actually improve it ;-)
<DocScrutinizer>
as somebody said yesterday he wants a N900 case of massive gold. I answered it will serve perfectly for the intended purpose
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: like a rolex ;-)
<DocScrutinizer>
yep
<DocScrutinizer>
my words
<DocScrutinizer>
[2011-06-20 03:39:47] <DocScrutinizer> have you ever heard somebody complaining about weight of his Rolex, or about it not being accurate ;-D
<DocScrutinizer>
in a Rolls Royce they got the clock for sole purpose to listen to the ticking and muse about how silent the car is
<DocScrutinizer>
it doesn't really matter if it shows the correct time
<DocScrutinizer>
(the car clock, not Rolex)
<wpwrak>
;-)
<wpwrak>
anyway, the evil day star will raise soon. time for nap :)
<wpwrak>
s/raise/ride/
<DocScrutinizer>
hey, I missed that point by far
<wpwrak>
ggaaah. s/ride/rise/
<DocScrutinizer>
pondering siesta ;-)
<DocScrutinizer>
just idly muses about his feeling facing hardware under a resin blob - depressing
<wpwrak>
[g2]: then the zip jluis mentioned is exactly what you want :)
<[g2]>
wpwrak, cool I'll have a look.  I'm also thinking of combining the Femtoduino and atben on one board.
<wpwrak>
[g2]: sounds good. some people here have already been thinking of such a union. (although more in the sense "wouldn't it be nice if someone did this", not in the "let's do this" sense)
<[g2]>
wpwrak, I'm building Femtos so it's the same QFN packaging
<[g2]>
wpwrak, thx for all you work in this btw :)
<wpwrak>
[g2]: glad you like it and even consider extending it ! :)
<[g2]>
wpwrak, open hw and sw are the best IMHO
<wpwrak>
agreed :)
<[g2]>
wpwrak, have you thought about a U.FL connector at all for the boards ?
<wpwrak>
[g2]: of course :) if you remove the 0R resistor, scatch off a bit if the solder mask and a bit of the copper, you can solder an U.FL there. it's most likely to be a one-way modification, though
<wpwrak>
ah yes, seen that one. such aggregators may be nice for final runs before going to the fab
<wpwrak>
for prototyping, probably too slow and the shipping to expensive
<[g2]>
right, he does "medium" runs once a month
<wpwrak>
for really simple stuff, i have turn-around times of a few hours :) RF boards are bit of a pain, though, with all those vias
<wpwrak>
also, he doesn't say if he does 0.8 mm boards
<[g2]>
wpwrak, you mean thinner boards ?
<wpwrak>
[g2]: thinner than the usual 1.6 mm. e.g., atben/atusb both are 0.8 mm.
<wpwrak>
[g2]: a thicker board wouldn't fit into the 8:10 card holder. also, the RF traces (feed line and antenna) are designed for 0.8 mm, not 1.6 mm
<wpwrak>
see also README-PCB
<[g2]>
thx... sorry about all the silly questions, I just found out about the atben/atusb last night (via hackaday)
<wpwrak>
naw, they're good questions. you're the first one besides myself and then tuxbrain to make such boards
<wpwrak>
[g2]: if you plan on using DorkbotPDX (that is, if they can do 0.8 mm), the drill sizes will be okay. theirs is bigger than mine, but my vias are conservatively sized. no problem with trace width and trace-to-trace clearance. copper to edge clearance is several times a bit lower than their 15 mil, but you may accept the risk. the only area where it really matters is at the antenna, where you have about 11.5 mil before chopping off copp
<wpwrak>
er
<wpwrak>
[g2]: if you plan on making an atusb, you can also try an 1.6 mm board. RF performance is likely to suffer, but the USB connector will actually like the change :)
<wpwrak>
[g2]: for atben, you have no choice. anything much thicker than 0.8 mm won't go into the slot
<[g2]>
wpwrak, I won't be going into the slot.. I'll be connecting up to the ATMega328
<[g2]>
the atben is like the RFM12B module except has AES and other stuff
<[g2]>
and fully open  (except the chip itself)
<wpwrak>
(atmega328) ah, okay. then you only have to worry about RF performance if using a different board thickness. i don't know what sort of degradation to expect. most likely, you'll get some reflections on the then mismatched feed line, plus the antenna may show some frequency-dependent attenuation
<[g2]>
wpwrak, right I'll have to look closer at the RF.  I've got an ubertooth so I'll be able to do some spectral analysis
<[g2]>
see some levels and stuff
<methril_work>
wpwrak, (fisl) i think it's going to be impossible to got to FISL this year :(
<wpwrak>
methril: aww ;-( for you it's almost next door
<rjeffries>
g2 I am the person wpwrak was referring to above about thinking about as opposed to doing a standalobe board that is arduino-ish plus the 802.15.4 radio
<rjeffries>
the reason is that Ben Nanonote could then be a human interface for remote sensor stations connected wirelessly
<[g2]>
rjeffries, it's all good.
<rjeffries>
have you been commenting on the femtoduino list?I read that list
<[g2]>
thinks about a lot of stuff, but it's really hard to do _everything_
<[g2]>
rjeffries, yup that's me
<rjeffries>
well I am not an engineer but I think about doing stuff
<rjeffries>
so have you built up a femtoduino yet? it is so clever. almost TOO small
<[g2]>
I've got several I've built
<[g2]>
both 3.3 and 5v
<rjeffries>
how difficult was the home brew surface mount stuff
<[g2]>
the QFN is a little tricky. I've got a jig for holding the board, laser cut solder stencils and a temperature controlled reflow oven (arduino based with thermocouple).
<[g2]>
I need to post some photos of the jig
<[g2]>
rjeffries, I've toyed with making a TQFN version
<[g2]>
rjeffries, also, I've only used leaded solder, haven't tried the silver RHOS stuff yet.
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: for an easier start, you may want to consider TQFP/SSOP/SIOC/etc. packages. they have little feet. they're quite easy to solder. QFN need a bit more experience, so they're not ideal for a smooth first-time experience.
<wpwrak>
[g2]: (RoHS) oh you're so missing out on the best fun ... ;-)
<[g2]>
wpwrak, are you using leadfree solder ?
<wpwrak>
[g2]: yeah, reluctantly. didn't want any troubles with shipping prototypes.
<[g2]>
got a good paste you like ?
<[g2]>
Everything is RHOS but the paste for me
<[g2]>
the QFN on the Femto's and 0402 are my first dip in the pretty small self-assembly stuff
<wpwrak>
[g2]: i normally solder with an iron. not too fond of the paste i got. but i didn't run comparisons, so maybe it's okay. my oven is a bit on the simple side, so it tends to overcook the boards a bit.
<[g2]>
wpwrak, homebrew oven ?
<[g2]>
rjeffries, around later ?  I've got run out for lunch.
<wpwrak>
[g2]: (oven) just the cheapest toaster oven i could find. wanted to see if it's easy to do oven-based smt. realized that no, some work would be needed. and probably a better oven as well :)
<[g2]>
wpwrak, I use a $19US oven from Target
<wpwrak>
[g2]: anyway, 0402 don't scale me anymore. qfn can still be a pain for the center pad and if i have lots of ground nearby, like in those RF designs
<wpwrak>
[g2]: you oven out-cheaped mine ;-)
<[g2]>
It does has a thermocouple sensor inside and that and the sensor probably cost 2x the oven
<[g2]>
well the sesnor is outside, but the thermocouple is in the oven :)
<wpwrak>
[g2]: nice :) just use the oven "as-is". didn't mod or instrumentalize it in any way.
<wpwrak>
hmm, that word probably doesn't exist :)
<[g2]>
wpwrak, you probably speak 4 or more languagues :)
<[g2]>
instrument is the work you were probably looking for
<wpwrak>
yeah :)
<wpwrak>
"instrumentalize" has more of a modding vibe to it, though. shame it doesn't exist :)
<[g2]>
:)
<dvdk>
kyak: huh?  the problem with ase crashing on safe is gone for me now.
<dvdk>
but the only thing i did was to install uclibc compiled from the same openwrt-xburst.git revision as I compiled ASE with.
<dvdk>
so have we been chasing a libc binary compatability problem?
<dvdk>
(well, the uclibc was compiled with debug information, but that shouldn't change anything i guess, as the debug info is only kept on the host)
<xMff>
it does change things
<xMff>
for example I recently fixed a segfault in gethostbyname_r() which did *not* occur when built with debug info
<dvdk>
good to know.  too lazy recompiling libc yet again :)
<dvdk>
thought he read 'it does NOT change things
<dvdk>
ok, so not so good.
<xMff>
which obviously must not mean that this is the case here
<dvdk>
ok, doing another run of toolchain/libc/compile
<dvdk>
but if it does happpen again, i'm going to get crazy.  because the crash happens inside uclibc, and without debug-info (remote) gdb is completely lost
<dvdk>
i notice it asks me about "ctype argument checking"
<dvdk>
on 'make toolchain/compile'
<dvdk>
and there is an option 'Issue a diagnostic and abort()'
<dvdk>
any chance that this was enabled in the nightly build trunk images? Â
<dvdk>
because SIGABORT is how ASE dies
<dvdk>
i set it to Detect and handle appropriately
<dvdk>
(i.e. not abort)
<dvdk>
shxx! without debug information it crashes again
<wpwrak>
dvdk: that's when the wavefunction collapses
<dvdk>
lol
<dvdk>
a heisenbug
<dvdk>
and another round of libc compilation, again with debug info just to be sure
<dvdk>
hmm, now crashes with debug information, too.  maybe it's the gdb that kept it running
<dvdk>
hmm, looks like i only recompiled libc all the time, but the libc*.ipk wasn't rebuild.  what's the target for this?
<dvdk>
toolchain/uClibc/install doesn't help
<dvdk>
turns out it needs make package/base-files/{clean,install}
<dvdk>
uups, looks like upgrading uclibc was a bad idea after all. nanononet doesn't  boot any more.  caught in a loop printing 'segmentation fault'
<dvdk>
and reflashing
<wpwrak>
dvdk: this is your opportunity to switch to glibc ;-)
<dvdk>
:)
<dvdk>
baah, then i could just switch to running debian
<dvdk>
flashing with the last nightly build.  hmm.  why does it have to be so slow...
<dvdk>
also flashing bootloader, let's hope it doesn't break
<kristianpaul>
glibc? why not to try bionic :-D
<kristianpaul>
so wen can put android word in the makerking stuff and sell more nanonotes :p
<wpwrak>
dvdk: (debian) you should run gentoo, with local builds
<dvdk>
rofl
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: (android) yeah, "compatible with Android Bionic libc". of the few million people who google for this every day, a few ought to get sufficiently confused that they buy a ben ;)
<dvdk>
maybe i should go for option #3 as suggested by Emeka: just run a bare bones forth interpreter wtihout any OS.  on more libc hassle  (and no more C-software that throws sigbort at me)
<xMff>
cat and /usr/bin/printf (=not shell builtin) get ENOSPC
<wpwrak>
a wpan kernel has no mmc driver, so the first echo fails. then, when it tries to turn off at86rf230, the echo writes nonsense, which the kernel ignores, leaving the driver still enabled
<xMff>
I know its annoying but I suggest to use /usr/bin/printf
<xMff>
it will behave as expected
<xMff>
or /bin/echo
<wpwrak>
i'll just wait for the fix. i think i now got everyone's attention ;-)
<kristianpaul>
lets see
<kristianpaul>
it works !
<kristianpaul>
root@nano:~# cat out
<kristianpaul>
bar
<kristianpaul>
thanks for the hint xMff
<dvdk>
ok, latest snapshot boots
<dvdk>
huh?  flashed the wrong version?
<xMff>
busybox and/or uclibc has other weird issues as well
<xMff>
at least on openwrt
<xMff>
or at least used to have
<dvdk>
ah, just the gmenu2x doesn't have my latest commits (revision not updated in its makefile i guess)