<ignatius_>
ok. stupid question, I just upgraded to the latest version of OpenWRT. and for the life of me, I can't figure out how to get networking working. i'm using the ks7010 micro sd card. before, all I had to do was "iwconfig eth0 essid any; dhclient", now that doesn't seem to work. anyone have any ideas why?
<kristianpaul>
may be kyak but i think he is sleeping now
<kristianpaul>
arghh, i forgot clock domain syncs..
<kristianpaul>
i wonder how sane routing clock domain sync will be having all 12 chanells.. but lets try with one first
<wpwrak>
ignatius_: i'd suggest to ask on the mailing list. kyak is a well-known owner of two such wlan boards, but he has troubles with both (hardware issues are suspected), so he may not be able to help you much.
<kristianpaul>
what a mess, this should be in both ways..
<kristianpaul>
be done*
<kristianpaul>
anyway..
<wolfspraul>
well, but ignatius_ sounds like he had this working before, and now it stopped
<wolfspraul>
software regressions, which may also be behind the problems kyak sees?
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: yes, that could explain things. it's a friendlier explanation than really bad QA :)
<ignatius_>
yeah. I did have it working before.
<ignatius_>
with the Debian root image, though.
<wpwrak>
hmm. that promises to get interesting :)
<ignatius_>
when I execute a "iwlist eth0 scanning" it detects a few wifi hosts.. but when I execute dhclient, it doesn't do anything.
<ignatius_>
so.. is dhclient the problem? that's what i'm wondering.
<wpwrak>
ignatius_: are any of the hosts open (unencrypted) ?
<kristianpaul>
good question :-)
<ignatius_>
maybe, if i examine the /etc/init.d files in the Debian OS pertaining to networking, i'll get an answer..
<wpwrak>
ignatius_: naw, iwlist scan should tell you this
<ignatius_>
well, I have my own wireless router...
<ignatius_>
but, yes, there are 2 unencrypted hosts.
<kristianpaul>
you did iwconfig eth0 essid wifinetname
<kristianpaul>
?
<kristianpaul>
before dhclient?
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: that thingy does support WPA, doesn't it ? (every once in a while, you can find an ancient chip that doesn't)
<ignatius_>
yes.
<wpwrak>
ignatius_: (unencrypted) perfect. then you can try to associate to them
<kristianpaul>
ignatius_: if so can you skip then dhclicnet and just configure ips manually so it should work this way too i think
<ignatius_>
well, I have two NanoNotes.. one with OpenWRT, and another with Debian. the Debian machine works flawlessly.
<wpwrak>
ignatius_: iwconfig  should show you if the association works ("Access Point:" shows a MAC address)
<ignatius_>
you mean "Address:" ?
<wpwrak>
ignatius_: dunno. this is what iwconfig output looks like on one of my PCs (not a ben): http://pastebin.com/sqYVpcNH
<wpwrak>
ignatius_: the AP's MAC address would be after "Access Point:"
<wpwrak>
ignatius_: otherwise, i think it says "not associated"
<ignatius_>
hmm.
<wpwrak>
ignatius_: maybe just paste the iwconfig output :)
<ignatius_>
well, there is a hexidecimal string after "Address:" on my machine.
<ignatius_>
is there a way to skip the dhclient step and set up the networking another way?
<kristianpaul>
ifconfig ?
<ignatius_>
i'm not too knowledgabe on wireless mechanics in Linux.
<kristianpaul>
is same as ethernet
<ignatius_>
ifconfig.. iwconfig.. whichever
<kristianpaul>
hum
<kristianpaul>
what ip adressing your acces point implements? ie 192.168.0.xxx
<kristianpaul>
what is your gateway
<kristianpaul>
?
<wpwrak>
ignatius_: first of all, the access point you're now associated with, it this your own or somebody else's ?
<kristianpaul>
;-)
<wpwrak>
ignatius_: i.e., do you know its configuration ?
<kristianpaul>
are yoy already connected to it?
<ignatius_>
it's my own.
<ignatius_>
not with the NanoNote.
<kristianpaul>
with your laptop, so that can tell us the netowrk configurarion easylly runnning ifconfig on that machine that is connected
<ignatius_>
although, the "wavmon" utility shows that it is connected.
<wpwrak>
ignatius_: hmm, so your laptop is associated with your access point but your ben isn't ?
<ignatius_>
yes.
<wpwrak>
ignatius_: or are both associated but only the laptop has TCP/IP working ?
<ignatius_>
that is.. I can connect to the network with every machine but the NanoNote running OpenWRT.
<wpwrak>
ignatius_: can you paste the output of  iwconfig  from your laptop ? e.g., on pastebin.com
<ignatius_>
hmm. good question. not sure if networking is working...
<ignatius_>
my desktop machine?
<ignatius_>
or the NanoNote with Debian?
<wpwrak>
ignatius_: the laptop you said is associated with your access point
<ignatius_>
hmm... it just occured to me... maybe I have to do a "init 3" ???
<ignatius_>
hold on a sec
<wpwrak>
ignatius_: we'll get to the ben later. first i want to see what your laptop is doing
<ignatius_>
thanks, BTW.
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: tools/usbperf/: measure the rate of control transfers a device can do (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/97604d7
<ignatius_>
bleh. now my laptop is refusing to connect.
<ignatius_>
i'm going to reboot. maybe that'll help.
<wpwrak>
success !! now the ben is as good as the laptop ;-)
<wolfspraul>
I think in theory it does support WPA, yes
<wolfspraul>
but I don't know much about it, never used it
<ignatius_>
ok. I got an "Access Point"
<ignatius_>
on the NN
<wpwrak>
great !
<wpwrak>
now, does dhcp work with it ?
<ignatius_>
when I start dhclient.. it just hangs there.
<wpwrak>
can you paste the output of  iwconfig  (on the ben) ?
<wpwrak>
(e.g., on pastebin.com)
<ignatius_>
it just locked up.. hold on. rebooting
<CapnKernel>
Hello and welcome from sunny Shenzhen
<CapnKernel>
I just got back from a meeting of the Shenzhen Linux User's Group, where I heard some great talks, and spoke with a fantastic group of like-minded geeks about starting a hackerspace here.
<lekernel>
:)
<wolfspraul>
CapnKernel: great. tell them a bit about the Ben NanoNote and Milkymist One too ;-)
<CapnKernel>
Oh, they told me!
<wolfspraul>
for Ben NanoNote I'm sure they've heard about it before, because we have/had some quite active guys in szlug
<wolfspraul>
yes, there you go :-)
<CapnKernel>
They know all about Qi hardware
<wolfspraul>
but maybe they don't know Milkymist One yet
<wolfspraul>
which is a far more serious hacker tool than the Ben
<wolfspraul>
you can fly to the moon with m1 :-)
<CapnKernel>
They didn't mention m1
<wolfspraul>
yes. so you need to evangelize...
<CapnKernel>
I would except that I don't know it either
<wolfspraul>
free CPU, super powerful programmable visuals and fpga etc.
<wolfspraul>
the world's most powerful and most free CPU/SoC
<wolfspraul>
CapnKernel: what did you learn from them?
<CapnKernel>
That there is something very universal about being a geek :-)
<wolfspraul>
btw, watch your safety in Shenzhen. it's probably the city with the most street crime in China.
<CapnKernel>
And about being a hacker
<CapnKernel>
wolfspraul: Thanks
<wolfspraul>
it's a seriously wild place
<CapnKernel>
I'm told it's the place that Guangdong folk point to, and say "that's a wild place".
<wolfspraul>
you must be careful with your purse, any bag you have around you etc.
<CapnKernel>
(And Guangdong has the reputation as China's wild place)
<wolfspraul>
wallet I mean, not purse :-)
<CapnKernel>
I don't know, I found one that suits my suits just nicely.
<CapnKernel>
Sorry, suits my shoes
<wolfspraul>
well I've told you - be careful there
<wolfspraul>
they are very fast, they work in teams, they bribe local security etc.
<CapnKernel>
Yes you've told me, and I wouldn't be surprised if something happens.
<wolfspraul>
I'm speaking from experience...
<CapnKernel>
I believe you
<wolfspraul>
no but you have to be faster/more alert than they are, that simple
<wolfspraul>
China survival
<CapnKernel>
I look out for distractions
<CapnKernel>
Things that can take your eye off what's important
<CapnKernel>
Like somebody dropping something
<wolfspraul>
just keep anything valuable super close to your body, best in front etc.
<CapnKernel>
Noted
<wolfspraul>
yes, binding their shoelace
<CapnKernel>
Bit hard when you've got a computer on your back
<wolfspraul>
I was never impressed with the quality of hackers I found there, in the end.
<wolfspraul>
although, in their favor, it's extremely hard to be a good hacker from mainland china
<wolfspraul>
the so called great firewall is crazy, it totally blinds you, excludes you
<wolfspraul>
so probably they have no chance, until they take that piece of shit down
<CapnKernel>
One guy showed me a phone he'd made for his grandmother.  She can't see, and certainly can't dial numbers.  The phone has a large 4x4 keypad, with each key being a different person.  She presses one button, it dials that person.
<wolfspraul>
that's nice
<wolfspraul>
snap a picture...
<CapnKernel>
He had an atmega32 in there, line interface circuit, standard phone tx/rx chip, was doing dtmf generation in software, etc.  Very very hackerish, very very improve society.  That's what it's all about
<CapnKernel>
These guys are ready
<CapnKernel>
Seems most of them use VPNs and are well versed in getting what they need to know from wkp.
<CapnKernel>
For example, these guys know who Bunnie Huang is, and know what he's done.
<CapnKernel>
(BTW I have been speaking with Bunnie)
<wolfspraul>
no I stand by my assessment
<wolfspraul>
there is no quality there :-)
<wolfspraul>
and the firewall does have grave consequences and seriously limits even the talented guys
<wolfspraul>
if werner would be inside the firewall for too long he would become a mountain terrorist, for sure
<wolfspraul>
it's 'thought crimes', committed every day, thousands of times
<wolfspraul>
CapnKernel: next time you see an interesting hardware hack (like that phone), remember you take a picture and write a short blog post about it
<wolfspraul>
they will seriously be happy and it will help everybody
<CapnKernel>
I know what you're saying.
<CapnKernel>
Specifically about the phone, and cool projects, I'd rather THEM write about it, in their own words, so they develop their own compulsion to share.
<wolfspraul>
the effects of the firewall are slow (it's designed to function like that)
<CapnKernel>
Information is power.
<wolfspraul>
ok, then we can wait forever
<wolfspraul>
so the firewall will slowly, little by little, drive people to give up
<wolfspraul>
give up wordpress.com, give up watching interesting stuff on youtube, give up wikimedia commons, give up blogspot, give up twitter, and so on
<wolfspraul>
you have to take the picture, and you have to blog about it. otherwise nothing will happen, quite simple.
<CapnKernel>
wolfspraul: I know what "learned helplessness" is.
<wolfspraul>
I disagree. you have to reach out and help them by bridging the gap first. even if that leads nowhere, at least a few people may see your example and one day remember.
<wpwrak>
there was life on earth before the internet :) but yes, once you're used to it, it's hard to get by without
<wolfspraul>
bullshit about 'learned helplessness' when you have the world's most sophisticated censorship and propaganda machine around you since birth
<wolfspraul>
you have to help them, and decisively. by giving an example.
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: that firewall would drive you nuts, I know it :-)
<wolfspraul>
especially how it is done, he
<wolfspraul>
the sllooooooooooow poision
<wolfspraul>
so slow it's unnoticable
<wolfspraul>
but with dramatic effects over time, especially on hackers
<CapnKernel>
wolfspraul: I really appreciate your advice, but I think we're done now.
<wolfspraul>
looking forward to your findings, keep us posted
<wolfspraul>
you plan to open a hackerspace there?
<wolfspraul>
will it have a website?
<wolfspraul>
and yes, I'm definitely curious to see a picture of that phone, hopefully one day...
<CapnKernel>
I plan to use my experience to help them open their own hackerspace.
<wolfspraul>
good. the more they have a chance to interact with you, personally, the better for them.
<wolfspraul>
I was there many times, but now I focus on what I've learnt :-)
<wolfspraul>
getting selfish, he...
<wolfspraul>
just thinking. shenzhen is not too far from hong kong. could you setup some sort of high-speed direct link to HK?
<wolfspraul>
many some powerful and directed antennae?
<wolfspraul>
the hackerspace wouldn't stand too long, but it'd be a really cool project
<wolfspraul>
s/many/maybe/
<wolfspraul>
I recently found out about fabfi.fablab.af and guifi.net, very cool projects imho
<wolfspraul>
the extension for ben-wpan :-)
<CapnKernel>
What would a high speed link do?
<CapnKernel>
I have told them I'm here three months for investigation, with the option of a few years if it looks good.
<CapnKernel>
Having the hackerspace provide communication services is a dumb thing, as it then makes the organisation a target for attention.
<lekernel>
it's a waste of time, too
<CapnKernel>
These guys know how to get what they want, and each can deny knowledge of what the others do, should there be a problem.
<lekernel>
any geek can run a server in their garage, there's no need for a hackerspace for that
<CapnKernel>
keep the surface area of a potential target as small as possible
<CapnKernel>
I'll be back later
<lekernel>
hackerspaces should be for large CNC machines, semiconductor labs, etc.
<lekernel>
most other uses are boring
<CapnKernel>
lekernel: You may be conflating the idea of a place, with an organisation.
<CapnKernel>
It's great to have a place to keep larger stuff.  But an organisation can still work with people carrying their own stuff.
<CapnKernel>
What we've found in Melbourne is that the value of a hackerspace is not just in the technical sharing, but the social aspect.
<CapnKernel>
Coming together to share reinforces the idea.
<lekernel>
oh, yeah, but I've seen too many hackerspaces becoming pure social spaces
<lekernel>
socializing is nice, but it's not what hacking is all about
<CapnKernel>
I will try to help with what I have learned from my experience in Melbourne.
<lekernel>
if you just want a meeting point, you can do something like 2600 meetings
<lekernel>
easy to set up
<kristianpaul>
oh, to kernels i tought i never will saw something like that ;)
<kristianpaul>
hello CapnKernel
<kristianpaul>
I agree with lekernel said, hackerspace is for big stuff (hopefully expensive too) that need to be place on a common place
<kristianpaul>
the rest can stay at home,
<kristianpaul>
I pointed expensive because that make you look for more people and buy/build it together somethimes
<kristianpaul>
s/saw/see
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: like "it's too heavy for a single person to move" ;-)
<kristianpaul>
yes
<CapnKernel>
Some of the hackerspaces in Australia have laser cutters and lathes.  They are good candidates for putting in a hackerspace.
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: may be you already checked this but your troughput problems with atusb is not maybe about a buffer limitation in the atmega side?
<kristianpaul>
well, i remenber same experience with burst transfer using microchip mcu and i remenber conclusion was around that
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: naw, i think i understand it now. it's a limitation of how the UHCI works. need to write it up.