<pie_>
i think semantic gap is my most recent favorite "word"
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<rqou>
hmm, i think one of the config lines here has an extraneous bit?
<rqou>
as in, it could have been optimized away, but they didn't
<rqou>
azonenberg: is this possible?
<rqou>
no wait
<rqou>
hmm, maybe i confused myself again
<rqou>
i hate dealing with these f*cking bits
<rqou>
soooo many control signals
<rqou>
no wonder later families dropped a bunch of these
<rqou>
oh hey azonenberg, how's your house?
<azonenberg>
rqou: we finished insulating the two bedrooms downstairs, and did all but two corners of the office where i have to build removeable access panels for drain cleanouts
<azonenberg>
hung a bunch upstairs but no finished rooms yet
<rqou>
seems like you're finally cleaning up "misc" too
<rqou>
azonenberg: contest: me finishing max v RE vs you finishing your house? :P
<azonenberg>
The misc list still has a bunch of things
<rqou>
i mean, so does the max v misc list
<rqou>
i'd estimate max v is at about 85% completion right now
<azonenberg>
i never finished running the cable trays, i have to fix a few things the electrical inspector complained about still (mostly relocating an attic box or two)
<azonenberg>
i have to caulk the wire penetrations on all of the ceiling electrical boxes (thankfully not that many) that open into conditioned spaces
<azonenberg>
ally did the walls already but couldnt reach the ceiling boxes
<pie_>
rqou, you will lose, software projects are never done xD
<rqou>
lol pie_
<pie_>
otoh i hope states could be reached for libraries and such where one can say, yeah this is good, its sound, its not missing anything, if its not maintianed for 5 years you should still be able to use it fine
<pie_>
like, it kind of bothers me that "actively maintained" needs to be a thing
<pie_>
i want to be able to leave something in an acceptable finished state so i can work on something else without feeling guilty about artisanship
<rqou>
you can be like me and just turn it in for homework :P
<rqou>
although i can't do that anymore :P :P
<pie_>
haha
<pie_>
on that note it would be interesting to look at a list of software still useful/usable 20 (or whatever) years later
<pie_>
qu1j0t3 ^
<azonenberg>
rqou: At this point my goal is to finish insulating all walls by the end of this coming weekend
<rqou>
aargh, i hate how much time "throwaway" software takes to write
<azonenberg>
Then do the attic insulation over the coming week after work
<azonenberg>
Ordering sheetrock some time early in the week, or even this weekend
<azonenberg>
so that it will arrive as soon as insulation is done
<rqou>
i thought you needed inspection first?
<azonenberg>
Yes, but the instant he signs off i want to start hanging :p
<azonenberg>
Which means having the stuff here by the time of the inspection
<azonenberg>
Which means figuring out how much we need, and ordering it, asap
<rqou>
azonenberg: how exactly do we need to _actually_ understand these global control bits?
<rqou>
just enough to activate all documented and useful features, or _everything_ everything?
<pie_>
rqou, i think that wouls depend on what you want? :P
<pie_>
how likely is it somethign weird could happen if you dont understand everything
<pie_>
rqou, depending on how much extra work it is, you might as well go all the way since you're already doing it?
<pie_>
wont need to waste spin-up time later :P
<rqou>
um, no
<rqou>
afaict the remaining features can't be activated in quartus at least the way i'm doing it
<rqou>
it'd probably require hardware testing
<pie_>
i see
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<daveshah>
rqou: at least in the ecp5 and the ice40, there are things that we suspect exist in hardware but the vendor tools don't let us do, but we haven't experimented with them and don't really plan to
<rqou>
whee, i found the missing control mux settings
<rqou>
i hope there's only two and not many more
<rqou>
ok, i managed to go from bitstream->spreadsheet->code and everything is at least internally consistent
<rqou>
so that's a decent start i guess
<rqou>
now for yet more mux fuzzing
<rqou>
ok, so each mux has 5 more settings for half the local tracks each
<rqou>
alright, these bits are finally sanely organized for once
<pie_>
too bad its probably not a good idea unless youre manic depressive
<pie_>
cool people are a bad inflence
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<pie_>
whitequark for based curated catgirl pictures
<pie_>
someone just asked me for my desktop background
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<q3k>
i get similarly vivid dreams on ssris
<q3k>
and it gets super fucking annoying if you get them night after night
<q3k>
also i'm not sure about whitequark, but i'd personally choose to not have to take those drugs in the first place over the somewhat cute side effects i get from time to time
<awygle>
using a jackhammer before 8am should be a crime.
<qu1j0t3>
especially to open a jam jar
<awygle>
why the hell would you have construction crews work 7am-3pm
<awygle>
when it's light til 9pm
<q3k>
citing the polish classic, "czy panowie musza tak napierdalac od bladego switu"
<q3k>
#onlypolish90skids
<awygle>
Google gives "do men have to napierdalac from a pale dawn"
<awygle>
which is so close to an explanation as to be infuriating lol
<q3k>
it's a quote from an unfortunately untranslatable cult classic film
<q3k>
scene: a neurotic primary school teacher gets awoken by a construction crew, shouts out from the window: "do you fine gentlemen must insist on making so much fucking noise from the break of dawn?!"
<q3k>
there's a lot of 'jezu' and 'kurwa' in that film.
<pie__>
haha
<q3k>
fansubbing this film into english is on my bucket list, but it really is difficult
* awygle
adds "swear in Polish" to a text document titled "To Learn"
<awygle>
actually I bet my grandmother can swear in Polish. I'll have to play this YouTube clip for her next time I see her.
<q3k>
she likely knows the film
<awygle>
na she's not polish. but granddad spoke it and she's a linguist
<q3k>
ah
<pie__>
lol
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<keesj>
sorry.. absolute noob here but... I have an ice stick and did managed to build / modify and run https://github.com/cyrozap/iCEstick-UART-Demo is there an example or using the IR leds (capture/replay) for a remote or similar?
<keesj>
Wireless control applications such as high end remote controls, TVs, LED lighting control and others can also be implemented. (http://www.latticesemi.com/icestick)
<awygle>
keesj: on the bottom of that page, if you click "design file" under "downloads", there's an IrDA example design
<awygle>
(technically two, one for tx and one for rx)
<awygle>
that should get you somewhat started at least. beyond that, you have to implement whatever protocol your remote transmits, i guess
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<rqou>
keesj: one relatively-common remote control protocol is called "RC-5" (not to be confused with the encryption algorithm)
<keesj>
I once did generating the code using a micro controller (bit bang) and do remember some of the details
<rqou>
in that case you "just" need to translate that into a FSM
<rqou>
or some other "good for hardware" style
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<keesj>
I will take at look at the download (also found a contstraint file that contained the constraint for the irda tranciever)
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<kc8apf>
I've never been happy with FASM syntax. It was the best we could come up with quickly. It works but I believe it would be much simpler with a bit of hierarchical structure.
<keesj>
I was thinking of a very simple state machine and a shift register to push out the bits.
<keesj>
(but I only really care about sending .. once I know the code.. I might grab it using a logic analyzer)
<daveshah>
kc8apf: I've tried to do that with my ECP5 text-based config format, it's FASM split into tiles with some designations for different config types. At the moment I don't particularly like the way configs are split across tiles, it makes IO configs look a bit odd. Example below for a picorv32
<daveshah>
the inspiration is from the ice40 "icebox_explain" format, which is actually a one-way transformation only at the moment, but I suspect that is ultimately BLIF derived
<daveshah>
I thought about JSON but not sure how much benefit that really brings for this kind of thing
<daveshah>
HLC for the ice40 adds more layers of hierarchy but it just makes things more annoying
<daveshah>
Anything I do PAR wise for the ECP5 will probably just link against the libtrellis C++ library and avoid intermediate files of any kinds, just using in-memory structures (equivalent to that file though)
<kc8apf>
each device family is still likely to need its own format
<daveshah>
yeah, definitely
<kc8apf>
might be a fool's game to try to make a format to accomodate them all
<kc8apf>
I _do_ want to be able to instance tiles directly from high-level languages though
<daveshah>
I think most of this stuff actually is not so much family-specific but vendor-specific
<daveshah>
So really it needs to be done maybe 4-5 times and that is it
<daveshah>
e.g. I am sure the same IL would be fine for 7-series, s6 and UltraScale; likewise for ECP5, ECP3, MachXO2 etc; once the tools get to that level
<kc8apf>
7-series and s6 have completely different frame formats and tile structures
<kc8apf>
anyway, switching to paying work for the day
<mithro>
daveshah: Yeah - I regret using HLC - specially as I seem to be the only user of it
<daveshah>
Yeah, sorry, I wouldn't have let you use it if I knew how bad it was
<daveshah>
That said there wasn't a good alternative
<mithro>
I have a tiny little C++ library which makes it slightly easier to deal with
<daveshah>
If we could go back, I would have suggested making icebox_unexplain
<mithro>
daveshah: Yeah - I would have probably gone that direction too
<mithro>
hindsight is 20-20 and all though
<daveshah>
That is actually quite similar to FASM and the ecp5 config