05:10 <cyrozap> I'm currently watching a really cool talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXwy65d_tu8

05:10 <cyrozap> "Impedance Matching Expectations Between RISC-V and the Open Hardware Community" by Andrew "bunnie" Huang

05:14 <cyrozap> It's a really nice look at how "Open Hardware" is a really difficult thing to describe, and how it differs fundamentally from FOSS.

05:17 <cyrozap> He also goes into the IC industry and how there's all sorts of potential issues that most software people are ignoring, like proprietary device firmware (SSD controllers, GbE controllers, USB 3 controllers, etc.), the complete lack of open Flash IP, and more.

05:18 <cyrozap> s/ignoring/are unaware of/

05:19 <cyrozap> So it's actually on-topic :P

08:00 <rqou> I'm aware of these issues

08:00 <rqou> but there's only so much time to work on projects :P

09:02 <azonenberg> cyrozap: i'm not unaware of the lack of open flash ip

09:03 <azonenberg> on the contrary, i deliberately planned my proposed f/oss CPLD to be SRAM with external SPI flash

09:03 <azonenberg> to sidestep that issue :p

15:37 <cyrozap> rqou, azonenberg: I'm aware thet you're aware of these issues, but other people in this channel might not, and despite hanging around this channel a lot I still learned some things from that video. At least, it was nice to see him put into words a lot of the issues I had with many of the "Open Hardware" projects that have appeared over the years, and it was nice to see him explaining the needs of the

15:37 <cyrozap> open hardware comminity to people who otherwise wouldn't be aware of them.

15:39 <cyrozap> s/comminity/community/

16:28 <azonenberg> Yeah

19:21 <pie_> wasnt someone here doing something like this?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_description_language#HDLs_for_printed_circuit_board_design

19:22 <azonenberg> pie_: me and whitequark have both fooled with it here and there

19:22 <azonenberg> nothing usable yet

19:22 <pie_> ah

19:22 <pie_> cool.

19:23 <whitequark> azonenberg: lets have a hackathon or something at the end of summer

19:23 <whitequark> with one more person

19:23 <whitequark> perhaps even all in the US though remote will probably be more productive

19:23 <azonenberg> we should

19:23 <azonenberg> i'd love to do it, i just have so many things on my plate... :p

19:24 <whitequark> yeah same

19:24 <whitequark> and I had to stop working until recently...

22:04 <rqou> azonenberg: back from recon?

22:06 <pie_> meanwhile the world ended again

22:07 <rqou> wait it did?

22:07 <rqou> (catching up with "Western" news is a bit annoying right now)

22:09 <pie_> http://www.qualys.com/2017/06/19/stack-clash/stack-clash.txt https://grsecurity.net/an_ancient_kernel_hole_is_not_closed.php

22:09 <azonenberg> Yep i'm back

22:15 <rqou> pie_: meh, that's "just" some Linux kernel problem

22:16 <rqou> I thought the world ending again was because of another of Trump's antics

22:16 <pie_> oh i havent watched any trump videos yet

22:16 <pie_> well according to the links at least, bsaically afects all common unices

22:16 <pie_> but not windows

22:17 <rqou> interestingly, whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com isn't blocked here :P

22:17 <rqou> I guess there's no real reason to block that - it's not critical of the regime or anything :P

22:18 <azonenberg> rqou: ;p;

22:18 <azonenberg> :p *

22:18 <azonenberg> also, i made some progress on my coolrunner emulator but need more time to finish it

22:18 <azonenberg> Also rx more greenpak devkits and samples

22:18 <rqou> nice

22:19 <azonenberg> i need to clean up my desk in a bit and set them up

22:19 <azonenberg> i'm kinda getting overloaded :p

22:19 <pie_> azonenberg, death by snu snu

22:19 <azonenberg> so many devkits

22:19 <rqou> I've been busy taking a little detour to somewhere right next to the "rogue province" :P

22:19 <rqou> but I'm back in Guangzhou now

22:21 <rqou> btw, an interesting piece of geography:

22:22 <rqou> look up Xiamen city in China

22:22 <rqou> and then look up Kinmen county

22:22 <rqou> look at how close they are

22:22 <rqou> and then realize that for historical reasons Kinmen belongs to Taiwan

22:45 <azonenberg> Also my MMCX-to-PMOD board is here

22:45 <azonenberg> Need to go send out the Q-strip-to-GreenPAK board

22:45 <azonenberg> i havent designed that one yet

22:45 <azonenberg> Yay for being busy

22:48 <rqou> pie_: I looked into the vulnerability you linked

22:48 <rqou> is it even exploitable on 64-bit?

22:49 <qu1j0t3> azonenberg: I got my Gen 4 devboard :-3

22:49 <azonenberg> qu1j0t3: for greenpak you mean?

22:49 <azonenberg> :)

22:50 <qu1j0t3> yes

22:50 <azonenberg> Nice

22:50 <azonenberg> Once i finish setting up these new boards i'll have a full farm

22:50 <pie_> rqou, i dont know, tl;dr (read later)

22:50 <qu1j0t3> directly inspired by your article and the great work you've done on support

22:50 <azonenberg> one each for dashboard testing of slg46537, slg46620, slg46140

22:50 <rqou> great, please test my "no-libudev" pull request

22:50 <azonenberg> then one for my own use

22:50 <azonenberg> rqou: before i do that, i need to get the buildbot up and running again

22:51 <azonenberg> unplugging all these boards borked it

22:51 <rqou> I meant qu1j0t3

22:51 <azonenberg> oh

22:51 <rqou> also please test on a "more-systemd-infected" distro like Fedora

22:52 <pie_> yay?

22:52 <rqou> I tested on a number of Debian-based distros and it works

22:52 <azonenberg> in the process of rolling out the upgrade to other boxen over the coming days

22:52 <azonenberg> pie_: more to the point, it works :p

22:52 <pie_> :D

22:52 <rqou> Ubuntu, Debian (incl. PPC), Raspbian all worked

23:17 <pie_> rqou, apparently your re: vulnerability, 32bitness is well founded

23:17 <pie_> *observation

23:17 <rqou> just stop using 32-bit

23:18 <rqou> I guess there are still "embedded" Linux platforms though

23:18 <rqou> but those likely have much more trivial vulnerabilities

23:32 <azonenberg> hmm i shoulda asked for another devkit from silego lol

23:32 <azonenberg> since they said 46620 and 46621 are actually different mask sets

23:32 <azonenberg> i dont have a dashboard platform for testing the 46621 anymore

23:32 <azonenberg> i can ask for another one later i guess :p dont wanna mob them with too many back to back requests

23:33 <pie_> rqou, <x> The address-space of a 64-bit process is so vast that we initially <x> thought it was impossible to clash the stack with another memory region; <x> we were wrong. <x> then found a way to do it on Linux

23:57 <rqou> oh I missed the suggestion about pcbhdl hackathon

23:57 <rqou> if you all come to HK in the next two weeks we can have a hackathon here :P

23:58 <azonenberg> Lol

23:58 <azonenberg> I'm not flying to HK any time soon

23:59 <pie_> you guys should come to hungary

23:59 <pie_> :P