<cr1901_modern>
mithro: I know, my issue is finding a balance for cache, RAM, and internal CPU usage w/ the limited block RAM. No cache is gonna be devastating to performance
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<rqou>
cr1901_modern: maybe i'm missing context, but you really should try cache-as-ram
<cr1901_modern>
Not gonna help in this application, and lm32's cache is write-thru
<ZipCPU|Laptop>
cr1901_modern: One of the first things I learned in small CPU design: you can always trade logic (LUTs) for performance
<ZipCPU|Laptop>
Or vice versa.
<ZipCPU|Laptop>
If you have no LUTs to deal with, performance will suffer.
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<lok[m]>
> not having a serial to USB chip is both good and bad, it's difficult to program from a regular desktop, laptop, tablet..., but you don't need to worry about FTDI putting malware in your drivers
<lok[m]>
Programming over serial possible?
<lok[m]>
In that case ftdi not needed?
<lok[m]>
All or most chips or boards are designed to be programmed natively over serial?
<lok[m]>
And then added fancy add-on like over USB or over Wi-Fi etc...?
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<awygle>
lok[m]: You might be able to program directly with a UART on some boards or chips, but the primary way to get a UART output on a standard laptop is... An FTDI USB to UART chip. So you're just moving the problem.
<lok[m]>
What about desktop?
<lok[m]>
awygle:
<awygle>
lok[m]: same
<lok[m]>
Then why uart is popular on chip side?
<awygle>
Also, for general FPGA questions like these, you might want to look at the ##fpga channel
<awygle>
lok[m]: it's a very easy protocol to implement in hardware, for one thing
<awygle>
The only arguably easier one is SPI, which has essentially the same problems
<awygle>
Also, serial ports (RS-232) _used_ to be quite common on standard PCs, and that's the same protocol as UART except for the voltage levels (so easy to convert from one to the other)
<lok[m]>
So If one has uart ; that board will not have serial port?
<lok[m]>
Or vice versa usually?
<awygle>
Usually a chip has a UART. A board can either run that UART out to a connector, or run it to an RS-232 transceiver and then run the other side of the transceiver to a connector. This choice can be made for each UART on the chip (many chips have more than one UART)
<awygle>
I can't really say what's more common, I have boards with only UART, boards with only RS-232/serial, and boards with a mix.
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<awygle>
If you don't want to support FTDI (wise, in my opinion), take a look at the CP2103 and friends from silabs. Although they don't do JTAG, so they can't replace the fancier FTDI chips.
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<lok[m]>
What's difference between rs232 and 485 in context to no of devices connections
<lok[m]>
The CP2103 USB to UART Bridge provides a complete plug and play interface
<lok[m]>
Why they use word " bridge" ?
<lok[m]>
What's jtag useful for
<lok[m]>
If any programmable chip or board has Wi-Fi or Bluetooth connectivity; can we program it wirelessly?
<lok[m]>
Or we must use specific programming port?
<lok[m]>
What's so special in programming port?
<lok[m]>
How many maximum programming ports or connections can be possible?
<lok[m]>
Is it possible to program a chip or board simultaneously over 2 different ports?
* shapr
hops randomly
<shapr>
TURING TEST
* ZipCPU
fails
<shapr>
:-P
<ZipCPU>
shapr: Would you believe after this whole summer of blogging ... I'm still going? ;)
<shapr>
I'm impressed!
<ZipCPU>
Yeah ... so am I.
<ZipCPU>
I'd never thought I'd be the type to do this sort of thing.
<ZipCPU>
... and I've hit on a lot of fun topics too.
<ZipCPU>
If all goes well ... my next post will be on how to build a CPU prefetch.
<shapr>
you're certainly getting interest
<ZipCPU>
I'm working on it.
<ZipCPU>
It's a fun shot of adrenalin any time one of these articles takes off.
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<shapr>
:-)
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<puddingpimp>
awygle: you can use the USB CDC, then you don't need a driver, I think
<awygle>
puddingpimp: do the FTDIs support CDC?
<puddingpimp>
LUFA for AVR is free (like BSD) software and my usual goto when I need any kind of non data-intensive USB class implemented
<puddingpimp>
I've built a few different HIDs (arcade joysticks, flight controllers, JVS interface) and communications ports with it
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<puddingpimp>
and the chips are cheap, and you can buy complete SOMs for < $2 on AliExpress
<puddingpimp>
downside is you need to add ISP to your ATE as, AFAICT AVRs don't support JTAG firmware load
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<puddingpimp>
I don't know if there's something similar to LUFA for MSP430, but it might be worth a look, as they tend to be even cheaper than AVRs and they do support JTAG firmware load
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<puddingpimp>
also with either MSP or AVR, you can get your own DID throught TI/Microchip without having to join USBIF and paying kilodollars in membership dues
<rqou>
depending on what you're doing, you can also just squat on VID 0xf055
<puddingpimp>
actually, that I think about it, the USB AVRs may also come with preprogrammed USB bootloaders
<puddingpimp>
though I do prefer to do it such that all the firmware on a board can be loaded in one JTAG run
<puddingpimp>
maybe TI pays more money for the privilege
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<puddingpimp>
"Customer acknowledges that Customer must obtain its own unique VID from the USB Implementer?s Forum (the ?USB-IF?) before any Customer Product will be listed on the Integrator?s List maintained by USB-IF. "
<puddingpimp>
but does anyone care if their product is listed on the Integrator's List/
<cr1901_modern>
I know, but I'd be perfectly willing to buy one for their fee
<rqou>
but squatting 0xf055 is free
<cr1901_modern>
Oh I'd do that before buying one. All I was getting at was:
<cr1901_modern>
It's not that I won't pay money at all
<cr1901_modern>
It's that I'm not paying $5000
<rqou>
i don't see the point of paying if you can just not pay :P
<cr1901_modern>
Idk, I feel like paying even a little will somehow cover my ass is USB-IF decides to enforce the "no sublicensing" rule
<rqou>
i don't see how the USB-IF can say anything about you if you don't claim USB compatibility and you're just using some numbers
<cr1901_modern>
I'm paranoid
<rqou>
the only potential issue i can see is patents
<rqou>
many of which are expired, and many of which don't apply if you're not making the silicon
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<awygle>
Pretty sure you just won't get on their list and can't use the logo. You can use any vid:pid you want. You just won't have or get any support.
<awygle>
Also everyone will hate you if you claim to be someone you're not
<rqou>
but you don't
<rqou>
you just say "designed for use with computers with USB ports"
<awygle>
Yes, that's what I'm saying. Just don't use the Intel VID and you'll be fine lol
<awygle>
Now afaict the same is not true of Bluetooth?