<asheesh>
OK hi everyone. Apparently my ride to Palo Alto from SF took two hours instead of one and now I'm basically trapped at the Hewlett Foundation office.
<asheesh>
Except it's gorgeous here so I don't feel super duper trapped.
<asheesh>
But I will be in the office tomorrow, given this, since they have wifi and power here and I'm done being in a car for a bit.
<asheesh>
(well two hours instead of 40 min)
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<asheesh>
sknebel: Thanks! That's cool, at least!
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<asheesh>
Users find all sorts of crazy problem.s
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<frigginglorious>
asheesh: Sounds grueling!
<asheesh>
The good news is they tell us how to be better. (-:
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<garrison>
Is it currently possible to create a private wordpress blog, where only certain people are granted read access (via sandstorm's capability mechanism)?
<dwrensha>
garrison: yeah, should work
<garrison>
dwrensha: oh interesting, let me check again. i did not see any way to do it, or to "hide" the site
<dwrensha>
in the Sandstorm's 'share access' menu, you should be able to choose a role
<garrison>
if i "share", there are five different capabilities, none of which are "read"
<dwrensha>
"can customize profile" is the weakest
<garrison>
cool. and it says something like "Your public site is available at: https://xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.oasis.sandstorm.io". is there a way to disable that public site?
<garrison>
(FWIW, I suspected "can customize profile" was the weakest, but it was unclear to me what that meant, and still a bit unclear to me)
<dwrensha>
garrison: content only gets pushed there when you click the "Regenerate Public Site" button
<garrison>
oh interesting. my naive understanding was that that button would choose a new URL for my site.
<garrison>
(of course, reading the instructions makes it a bit more clear)
<dwrensha>
ah, maybe "Regenerate" is the wrong verb to be using
<garrison>
so basically, if i never press that button, i will never have a public site. but people who get the "can customize profile" permission can still read
<dwrensha>
yeah
<garrison>
if, say, my wife presses the button, is there a simple way to revert the public site to be nothing again?
<kentonv>
Note also that the randomly-generated public site URL is unguessable, therefore unless you share it no one will ever find it
<garrison>
that's what i thought
<garrison>
got it
<kentonv>
admittedly, if it leaks, it's not easy to revoke
<dwrensha>
in principle, it's possible to share a "can only read and does not even get a profile" capability
<kentonv>
(to revoke the public site URL, you'd have to save a backup, delete the grain, and then restore the backup as a new grain, and re-share to everyone.)
<dwrensha>
but since I didn't define a role for that, it's not possible through the UI
<kentonv>
arguably the Wordpress port should allow disabling the public site altogether
<elimisteve>
Anybody have tips on packaging a Go app for Sandstorm?
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<elimisteve>
I see that vagrant-spk is PHP-centric
<elimisteve>
I assume that packaging a Go app should be pretty trivial, since everything (or at least the backend) is compiled to a single file
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<jcfischer>
Hi all. We have a problem with our Sandstorm installation. It seems that the installation is hosed (the /opt/sandstorm/latest link points to sandstorm-141 which is a file, not a directory). All the grains are there (in /opt/sandstorm/var).
<jcfischer>
I'm now backing up the /opt/sandstorm directory and plan to reinstall it and copy the data back. Will that work?
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* asheesh
stretches, good morning.
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<synchrone>
sandstorm/supervisor.c++:1156: warning: ip_tables kernel module not loaded; cannot set up transparent network forwarding.
<synchrone>
that something I should worry about?
<asheesh>
No, it's normal; it's for an unused feature.
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<asheesh>
i,i Sandstorm: flexible open source internal tools hosting, for when "having choice" is more important than any particular one of the choices
<asheesh>
Context: A lot of people ask me, "oh, is app X available in Sandstorm?" and I say "No, not yet" and they move on. But then other people are like "Oh wow, this lets me offer an assortment of things to other people? Sign me up!"
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<asheesh>
Question from elsewhere: "AJAX requests from a static website to an API service running on sandstorm" - kentonv do you know off-hand if these support CORS? I would presume so, since the authorization header seems like enough access control, but didn't quickly find it in a read of https://github.com/sandstorm-io/sandstorm/blob/master/shell/server/proxy.js
<asheesh>
Oh wait NM, yes, I see it now, the answer is yes.ese
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<asheesh>
s/[.]ese//
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<TheJ>
ping
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<TheJ>
When using Sandcats.io, is it possible to use ports other than 80 & 443?
<TheJ>
Does sandcats.io "require" https ?
<asheesh>
TheJ: pong, hi!
<asheesh>
It doesn't require HTTPS, and you can use whatever port you like.
<TheJ>
Cool! So in teh config I can remove teh HTTPS=443 line and just cahnge teh port in the other line, correct?
<asheesh>
Let me know if you
<asheesh>
erm
<asheesh>
Yeah, that's right!
<asheesh>
And you can use HTTPS on a non-443 port, fwiw.
<asheesh>
That's what I'd recommend, rather than disabling HTTPS entirely. Up to you, though.
<TheJ>
Awesome! I will try that tonight when I'm at my system :-)
<asheesh>
(I'm also the author of the sandcats code.)
<TheJ>
Thanks again !
<asheesh>
You are very welcome. Keep us posted.
<TheJ>
I reinstalled sandstorm last night (thanks to you and Kenton for advise) and it works but need to use other ports as I already have a system using ports 80 and 443 on my netowrk
<asheesh>
Got it.
<asheesh>
FWIW you can share port 443 between multiple devices if you like.
<asheesh>
That's definitely some work, so having different ports is easier for sure, but this is one option.
<TheJ>
sweet! I'll read up on that right now! Thanks
<asheesh>
Great!
<TheJ>
would taht be sharing 443 on teh SAME server?
<asheesh>
Yeah, or you could have one server "own" port 443, and then either route to localhost:8443 for Sandstorm or proxy out to the other server in your network.
<TheJ>
I'm going to get it up and running on another port first....then do some reading on sniproxy
<TheJ>
my web server is on another box. wouldn't the NAT in my router need to do this coordination?
<asheesh>
Your router could NAT to one machine which runs sniproxy, and which itself does further forwarding depending on the hostname in the request.
<JonTheNiceGuy>
Blimey, what a lot of people there are here :) You guys need to publicise this channel more :) I only found it by making my way through your blog!
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<erikmaarten>
seems the channel is gaining traction gradually
<erikmaarten>
hope the same goes for Sandstorm in general
<JonTheNiceGuy>
Oh, I agree wholeheartedly. The reason I found it was that I'm writing a piece for Linux Voice about Sandstorm, and wanted to get some dates for things out of the blog ;)
<JonTheNiceGuy>
I then decided they didn't fit into the article, and ditched them, but the important thing for me was that I looked :D
<erikmaarten>
that's nice :)
<JonTheNiceGuy>
I've been meaning to write the article for 4 months, so it was about time I got around to writing it :D
<JonTheNiceGuy>
The next piece will be on porting apps to sandstorm, so I'd best find an app that I want to see in Sandstorm :)
<asheesh>
I have my own random wishlist that I'll share with you, JonTheNiceGuy, if you're looking out for things!
<JonTheNiceGuy>
I tried to port php-cert-auth and it's not gone well :)
<JonTheNiceGuy>
But that's because the author writes really bad PHP, and I've been struggling to get him to rewrite in a sensible (i.e., not PHP3 style) manner
<asheesh>
Hmm, depends how simple you want, OK (-:
<asheesh>
Aw I was hopeful that php-cert-auth would be relatively easy. (-:
<asheesh>
FWIW maybe it's worth me spending more time with you, figuring out the problems there, but then would that make the best article? I dunno. (-:
<JonTheNiceGuy>
Hmmm probably not
<JonTheNiceGuy>
But, it'd help my sanity a bit :D
<asheesh>
It might, since you'd end up with shockingly much experience!
<asheesh>
I was thinking https://getgrav.org/ since many people like it, but I don't actually use it, so maybe I'm a bad person to really push for it.
<asheesh>
Hey simonv3 ^ any ideas for an "easy" app for JonTheNiceGuy to make a package of?
<asheesh>
But I'd be A-OK with spending some more time with you interactively JonTheNiceGuy on the cert thing.
<JonTheNiceGuy>
asheesh: As my wife's just got home, and is after me to spend time with her, I'll park the getgrav for today (after all, I still need to do the Sandstorm install on Digital Ocean and screen-grab the <expletive> out of it.
<asheesh>
Cool, tty later!
<JonTheNiceGuy>
But, yes, I'll be back in a couple of days (probably Tuesday now...) and discuss it further :)
<asheesh>
Great! I literally said "Yes!" out loud when I saw you are going to write an article for Linux Voice, btw!
<asheesh>
Super excited about that.
<ocdtrekkie>
I am now totally confident that nobody who does web design at Google even knows other web browsers exist.
<asheesh>
JonTheNiceGuy: Oh, hey...
<JonTheNiceGuy>
Yup asheesh
<asheesh>
http://quasar.meteor.com/ maybe, except that you have to have HTTPS while using WebRTC, so testing locally is something of a pain.
<asheesh>
phildini and zarvox: You would appreciate: on jQuery-soup-esque-programming: "I can tell you from experience that this code will ruin your life and your friends' lives." <http://blog.andrewray.me/reactjs-for-stupid-people/>
<JonTheNiceGuy>
Right, I'm off :)
<asheesh>
Ciao!
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<zarvox>
asheesh: yeah, the clarity of "given this state and these props, what output do I get, and what are all the event handlers?" all being neatly together in one file make React massively productive
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<asheesh>
ekamirite
<asheesh>
i,i aye aye aye
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<asheesh>
Micro-confusion of the day:
<asheesh>
sandcats.md: sandcats domain in Moldova; also, the filename for docs on sandstorm.io
<asheesh>
I mean
<asheesh>
sandcats.md: sandcats domain in Moldova; also, the filename for docs on sandcats.io
<asheesh>
sandcats.io: sandcats domain in the British isles of the Indian Ocean; the service provided by a US company
<asheesh>
kentonv: "compromise: we could buy xip.sh"!!!
<asheesh>
(kidding, but is true)
<kentonv>
don't forget, everyone who chooses a .io TLD is implicitly endorsing the cruel British colonization and oppression of the local indigenous population!
<luluganeta_>
Hi everyone, I'm wondering if there is a trivial way to hide the sandstorm top and side bars from certain users i share a grain with? This is for stuff like Sandforms, where I'd like to show people just a simple form and no other UI elements. I'm more than happy to have a "Running on Sandstorm.io" footer, but the top and side bars have little purpose in this specific use case. Is there a straightforward way to hide them for
<luluganeta_>
non-admins or such?
<asheesh>
luluganeta_: The sidebar goes away for non-logged-in users, but the rest of the UI stays at the moment.
<asheesh>
One alternative the SandForms team could implement is to support using static publishing to give a long weird URL to the form, which would result in a UI completely without the sandstorm top & side bars.
<asheesh>
They're possibly interested in writing it; consider filing a bug with them.
<asheesh>
I hope that helps; I wish I could be even more helpful!
<kentonv>
asheesh: I suspect it would require some rearchitecting on their part, since it's written as a Meteor app
<luluganeta_>
Yes, I completely get the design choice. Was just wondering if it would be possible -- will now eagerly read up on that feature
<asheesh>
Yeah, kentonv, that is true.
<luluganeta_>
You're always helpful! Cheers
<asheesh>
It'd be nice to have a full-screen mode within Sandstorm, which we could then leverage so that some sharing links could come with full-screen mode by default.
<kentonv>
I could possibly be convinced that it should be possible to create a share link with the property "does not show Sandstorm UI".
<luluganeta_>
I'd +1 that
<asheesh>
I guess then "always operates in incognito mode" too.
<asheesh>
Which is probably what a survey distributor wants anyway.
<kentonv>
maybe. Or maybe the app could still use postMessages to cause the login and sharing menus to appear?
<kentonv>
there may be dragons lurking that I haven't thought of yet, though
<asheesh>
In general, I'm happy when we can implement Sandstorm features that the SandForms team would find useful..
<asheesh>
I only meant one '.' there.
<asheesh>
It's nice that we have IMHO really good communication with them, so they're probably expressing things others want.
<luluganeta_>
"guest mode" could be an option when creating a sharing link, which would be full screen+incognito
<asheesh>
Perhaps this only gets shown if the app requested it, since we have the postMessage() way to create a sharing link anyway.
<kentonv>
hmm, letting people hide the Sandstorm UI may harm Sandstorm's virality. Which is a sad reason not to implement a feature that users want, but OTOH more growth in Sandstorm usage means we can spend more effort making it better in the long-term.
<asheesh>
(I'm concerned about UI bloat.)
<asheesh>
IMHO "making users of Sandstorm happy" is the biggest component of Sandstorm virality.
<sandah>
If I build a dokuwiki site in sandstorm and one day I want to move to vanilla dokuwiki is that possible?
<asheesh>
Hi sandah
<sandah>
hey asheesh
<asheesh>
One way or another, yes. You can get a feel for it making a DocuWiki site in Sandstorm then downloading a grain backup.
<asheesh>
I haven't personally tested the migration path, but fundamentally it's still DocuWiki in there, and you'll see evidence of that in the backup.
<asheesh>
If you're concerned, it's worth doing a sample migration first, although I think it won't be crazy hard if you decide to investigate it later.
<asheesh>
You'll also find the corresponding config files as part of the Sandstorm DocuWiki package source on GitHub (see the github link from the app market page for docuwiki), so you can use that to get a sense of what's going on within the backup snapshot
<sandah>
This is less of something I'm planning on doing, more of a contingency.
<asheesh>
.
<sandah>
I'm hoping to use sandstorm, but looking at something like docker which seems to get more proprietary every day I'm interested in what my options are if I buy in now.
<asheesh>
Yeah - data migration is one thing that I think we do really with with Sandstorm, since the grain owner can always download their data and it's stored separately from app config etc.
<asheesh>
We can always do better, but there you go (-:
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<luluganeta_>
kentonv, just a note, like I said above I'd be more than happy to place a "Powered by Sandstorm" in the footer; in fact that could be the default footer on a new Sandform app (or any other), since your concern about visibility makes total sense
<sandah>
Thanks asheesh I like what I've seen so far so I'd like to give it a try.
<dwrensha>
I'm wondering whether a "Full Screen Sandstorm" session would still be within an iframe.
<dwrensha>
I guess it probably has to be.
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<asheesh>
"obviously" we should move the top bar to be a bottom bar, and then clicking "Sandstorm" opens up the Sandstorm menu, like it's Windows 95 and a start button.
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<asheesh>
Just to give Kenton some more crazy ideas:
<asheesh>
When we support IRC on Sandstorm, we should send all the packets out via not our main IP address.
<asheesh>
While we're at it, we should run it on a different machine, in case people want to attack that host.
<zarvox>
dwrensha: I could see a world in which we redirect rather than iframing when you do an openSessionFromApiToken with a particular query param or bit set on the token
<asheesh>
While we're at it, that should should run a userspace TCP/IP stack with the ability to save state to disk so that TCP connections in Sandstorm can survive reboots.
<zarvox>
asheesh: that escalated quickly
<asheesh>
: D
<asheesh>
I did some preliminary Googling but couldn't find something off the shelf that meets these criteria yet.
<zarvox>
dwrensha: I guess that would break anything that wants to postMessage, and the session keepalives, though. So maybe not.
<kentonv>
I think we still need the iframe for a bunch of reasons. Another one is that we want keep-alives to come from an authenticated context not controlled by the app.
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<luluganeta_>
I had a nitpick about the sidebar collapse character and tried changing it to a unicode arrow: http://imgur.com/a/3C2TX If you guys think this makes sense, i can put together a pull request
<luluganeta_>
top is current, bottom is alternative
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<TheJ>
Would it be possible to request a bookmarking app for SandStorm?
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<kentonv>
luluganeta_: I agree the current character is not ideal. The arrow looks better to me but I would leave it up to nena (our designer) to decide. Could you file an issue and include your screenshot?
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<luluganeta_>
Happy to! I went to the original issue where the designer posted the graphical fix, and it looks great on the screenshots with the custom "<", better than the arrow actually. But on the actual front-end it's just the character "<", which doesn't look half as good as the larger glyph. I'll put this into an issue, yes