<asheesh>
Sounds like Sandstorm is making apps buggy!!
<mrdomino>
oh that explains it
<dwrensha>
well, it's kinda rare to have a window.prompt open
<dwrensha>
there's one when you want to change the grain title
<dwrensha>
and you would need to be the only one currently viewing the grain
<mrdomino>
yeah
<mrdomino>
that's happened a couple times
<asheesh>
Sandstorm could definitely use an alternative to window.prompt().
<asheesh>
mrdomino: BTW I still love mrdomino radio
<mrdomino>
=D yay!
<mrdomino>
me too incidentally
<mrdomino>
it's been up a short time but i've already made a lot of amazing connections through it
<asheesh>
Unrelated, http://resonate.is/ is intriguing, thanks simonv3 for the link
<asheesh>
I feel like this is what I really wanted out of my 2008-era free culture activism.
<mrdomino>
wow nice
<mrdomino>
very relevant to my interests
<mrdomino>
incidentally justcopy.org is my abandoned vapourware attempt at something along those lines
<mrdomino>
and one of the things mrdomino radio is is a plan to grow a thing that gives artists, and me, more money. i'm not joking about wanting to establish the mrdomino radio hosting costs, buying music, and legal defense fund.
<mrdomino>
if it takes off, i plan to use excess funds to go through and replace youtube rips with high-quality versions bought as close to the original artists as possible
<mrdomino>
in other news i tried porting Encryptr to sandstorm briefly yesterday
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<mrdomino>
in this case the main sticking point was i have no idea what the hell cordova is, but it seems to mean "we don't give you a just regular old website"
<asheesh>
Tell me more.
<mrdomino>
it seems like it's trying to give you a native-ish android or ios app
<dwrensha>
My understanding is that Cordova turns a Meteor webapp into a native mobile app.
<mrdomino>
so it has a "set up and run for android" and a "set up and run for ios" thing
<asheesh>
Does Encryptr have a HTTP service backend...?
<mrdomino>
...actually now that i recall more of it, the thing that put me off it was just that they made it non-obvious how to get them to stop trying to rewrite their source at runtime
<mrdomino>
yeah i mean it's just a node app at some point so i presume so
<asheesh>
: D re: rewrite source at runtime
<asheesh>
BTW I met a marketing person from spideroak, so now I officially have connections to the people who made Encryptr, presumably.
<mrdomino>
woot
<|jemc|>
I think the idea is that it needs a app on the desktop or mobile device where you use it, in order to be end-to-end encryption
<asheesh>
So if you need me to drop someone a line and e-connect you with them, then I can do that.
<asheesh>
(I have no point, I just want to say) Ed-to-Ed encryption
<|jemc|>
Alice-to-Bob encryption
<mrdomino>
noted!
<chilts>
mrdomino: yes, Cordova is a way to write native apps for Android/iOS in JavaScript
<mrdomino>
yeah the main bottleneck is that i have like zero spare energy
<mrdomino>
this month and the next are gonna be the hardest of my career
<mrdomino>
("the hardest of my career so far!" says homer simpson)
<asheesh>
If there's one thing I learned from my openhatch.org years so far, it is that rather than motivating people to work on things they don't want to, it's better to find the things people want to work on.
<pdurbin>
asheesh: +1
<asheesh>
Which is just to say: mrdomino that is cool, take however long you want to do whatever it is you want to do
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<asheesh>
Howdy ydixon
<mrdomino>
:) word, thank you
<|jemc|>
mrdomino: is your work-so-far public for your attempt at packaging encryptr
<mrdomino>
i can make it public in short order
<asheesh>
If there is one thing I learned from /usr/games/fortune , it is: "Communicate. It can't make things any worse."
<|jemc|>
that sentence of mine was rather oddly phrased, but I'm glad you understood it :)
<|jemc|>
(and missing the appropriate question mark)
<ydixon>
Do the links expire after a certain amount of time? We use this link to share our feedback form on Sandforms
<ydixon>
But Jack had to generate a new one for us to use. We got a 403 from the old one.
<asheesh>
They aren't intended to. dwrensha is the expert on them, although I can go read the code too.
<asheesh>
Yeah, I saw that on your GitHub issues. I wonder if he accidentally deleted it...?
<ydixon>
Maybe.
<asheesh>
It sure would be nice to be able to debug this better.
<asheesh>
This is on Oasis, right? or is it on a server y'all control?
<ydixon>
It's on Oasis
<asheesh>
For now, I think the best answer is to email support@sandstorm.io and we can see if there's a deeper problem. You might have to give us a couple of days, though.
<ydixon>
Okay I'll do that. There's no rush, we're just curious about what happened.
<kentonv>
I almost kind of wish that groovebasin didn't allow non-admins to download. That would make it clearly not useful for file sharing, without causing any harm to the "radio" use case.
<asheesh>
I had no idea it allowed me to download, fwiw.
<asheesh>
AFK a bit!
<Tcf>
kentonv I think you can experience problems with the "radio" use if it would be public
<Tcf>
and be spread
<digitalcircuit>
As long as someone can control playback, they can download a version of the song by intercepting the audio stream, changing tracks as needed.
<asheesh>
sssshhhhhhhh
<Tcf>
hehe
<kentonv>
TCF: technically, sure. But as I understand it real radio stations don't usually pay for content because they actually serve to advertise content which people then go buy elsewhere, and mrdomino radio is *also* doing that *right now*.
<kentonv>
digitalcircuit: yeah but that's awfully inefficient
<digitalcircuit>
Fair point. Reminds me of recording FM radio to cassette tapes :)
<Tcf>
kentonv I agree. I just say that this is a legal minefield and there will come a point where it's relevant
<Tcf>
Of course; I mean hosted on Oasis
<kentonv>
luckily this radio isn't hosted on Oasis. :)
<Tcf>
:)
<Tcf>
I'll stear away from any music hosting for now
<kentonv>
(Oasis would have to respond to DMCA takedowns by deleting the grain. We haven't received any takedowns yet, thankfully.)
<Tcf>
yup.
<digitalcircuit>
Oof, didn't think of the DMCA and stuff.
<Tcf>
let's hope it stays that way
<digitalcircuit>
No way to delete URLs?
<digitalcircuit>
Err, sharing URLs.
* digitalcircuit
is not sure if that's sufficient.
<kentonv>
yeah I'm not sure if unsharing would be sufficient
<kentonv>
if it is, that's what I'd prefer
<kentonv>
but I think it probably isn't
<kentonv>
(we'd ask our lawyer if it came up)
<digitalcircuit>
Some way of not immediately toasting user's data would be nice.. but I'm no lawyer :)
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<kentonv>
well in practice we wouldn't actually _delete_ delete it, we'd make it inaccessible. The question is whether we need to make it inaccessible to the owner or not. We probably do.
<sandah>
Is there a list of all the sandstorm apps somewhere?
<zarvox>
yay, I can provide an IpNetwork to a test app, and then it can make a socket connection to my HTTP server and send a request and read the reply
<digitalcircuit>
Congrats!
<dwrensha>
zarvox: it dawned on me that membrane requirements might not be quite as scary as I had feared...
<dwrensha>
currently we just "do logic programming" with a bunch of facts of the form "A -> B"
<dwrensha>
a membrane requirement is just something that goes on the left of that arrow
<dwrensha>
"(A & C) -> B"
<zarvox>
That sounds about right. We just have to be able to prove that C holds before this particular edge is proven.
<zarvox>
That said, I think the only time I've done logic programming was for a tiny Prolog program in undergrad 8 years ago.
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<zarvox>
Also dwrensha I'm kind of avoiding permissions.js right now because I figure you're probably making changes that I'd need to rebase atop anyway (hence working on IpNetwork stuff)
<zarvox>
if you think changes to support membrane requirements wouldn't conflict, I'll get back to that
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<mrdomino>
kentonv: concurred on the download front. the last thing sandstorm needs is the big media mofos deciding they don't want it around at this stage.
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<mrdomino>
my hope is to make mrdomino radio as legit and transparent as possible on all fronts while still optimizing for good music and culture
<mrdomino>
and yeah andrewrk hung out for a while the other night. it was a wonderful time! i have so much gratitude for all of y'all for putting this thing together, whatever comes of it.
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<mrdomino>
in other news, now to see if i can sort backups... x_x
<asheesh>
mrdomino: Let me know if you want help with that!
<jadewang>
I wish I could thumbs up tracks in mrdomino radio!
<jadewang>
wait, where are the lyrics to this song?
<jadewang>
kenton claims it's a different song, we'll see
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<mrdomino>
asheesh: sure! i'm figuring i'll just take the instance down, make a tar, bring the instance up, compress the tar, pull it down the next day onto a hdd i own
<mrdomino>
also i agree with jadewang, i wanna thumbs-up tracks on mrdomino radio
<dwrensha>
The tagging system has had some significant changes upstream. "thumbs up" might possibly fit within it.
<mrdomino>
guys just fyi mrdomino radio is currently playing The Best Music
<ocdtrekkie>
So, is the whole NoSQL thing like... The ability to store like class instances and things directly? I apparently might need to look at this thing.
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<kentonv>
ocdtrekkie: "NoSQL" has no discernible meaning other than literally "does not use Structured Query Language"
<kentonv>
I think it was originally meant to refer to large-scale storage systems that sacrifice a bunch of common database features (e.g. transactions, some indexing) in order to be able to scale
<kentonv>
but now it's a fad so everyone wants to slap "NoSQL" on their database product even if it has no business claiming to be scalable
<ocdtrekkie>
Okay, one of those sorts of things.
<ocdtrekkie>
I just rarely looked at it because I :like: database tables and SQL queries.
<ocdtrekkie>
But I do need to look for some way to store some objects where some have different properties than others, and I am trying to figure out what that might look like.
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<XgF>
My favorite "NoSQL" database interestingly enough has full transactions and can do indexing, but no query language...
<XgF>
(basically more people should consider OODBMS :P)
<zarvox>
ocdtrekkie: I'm also a fan of relational databases. ALTER TABLE means you can change how your data is structured and relates and still preserve some strong application-level invariants about consistency.
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<ocdtrekkie>
zarvox: ALTER TABLE alters the whole table though, does it not? The issue in this case is storing data/properties about hardware devices. Devices of different types, with different properties. Like my Insteon devices have an address, like 00.00.00 and they have certain device identity variables and such that need to be stored for those devices.
<ocdtrekkie>
Ideally, I don't want to have a table for each type of device I have, because I want them to be more or less controlled in a common way.
<dwrensha>
heh, this is a common story. "I need algebraic data types, but they are awkward in the currently language I'm using. Therefore I will switch to an untyped language."
<ocdtrekkie>
dwrensha: I am mostly experimenting, so if it's fun to throw something out there, I might do it. But.........
<ocdtrekkie>
I'm writing it in Visual Basic .NET. So everything I deal with has to somehow be understood by that.
<ocdtrekkie>
I suppose I could switch to C# if I really wanted to, but they end up as 'basically the same thing', and I hate semicolons.
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<XgF>
ocdtrekkie: FWIW PostgreSQL's JSONB field type is pretty perfect for this
<XgF>
a bit heavyweight though
<ocdtrekkie>
I will look at it, though yeah, I am hoping to keep this somewhat small.
<XgF>
Another option is to just serialize somehow the extra data into a blob field, or create a related table (one where the primary key is a foreign key into the main table)
<ocdtrekkie>
XgF: That's what I'm kinda doing now, the latter part. For instance, I have a devices table and an insteon_devices table, with the extra fields there.
<XgF>
(this kind of stuff is why I loved ZODB. You're just serializing.. objects)
<ocdtrekkie>
I am kinda exploring what options I have that might make a less kludgy system before I build too much on top of it that it's a pain to replace.