apeiros changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 2.1.3; 2.0.0-p576; 1.9.3-p545: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com || this channel is logged at http://irclog.whitequark.org, other public logging is prohibited
<zlude> existensil, gizmore, sure! make sense... i choose ruby for that reason. fast coding, solid application, easy to maintenance... but i really want to know about performance, php is faster than a ruby app? or a simples for in php is faster than a simple for in ruby? its really not big important, but im curious
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<waxjar> php is easy to learn but hard to handle, ruby is a little harder to learn but so much easier to handle
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<volty> to maintain
<existensil> its apples to oranges mostly. the frameworks and tools are so vastly different you could easily setup a benchmark that would show either language dominating at performance
<waxjar> that too
<gizmore> zlude: ruby should be faster (no ===) , especially when it comes to websites (no parsing on every request) ---- on the memory side php and ruby are about equal
<pipework> Anyways, ruby is fun
<volty> to extend, to scale up
<gizmore> php + bytecache can be fine too... it´s not that bad... but in general i´d say php is the worst hack around
<gizmore> ruby is clean and elegant
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<zlude> yes
<existensil> zlude: here is a benchmark ruby always wins: Thread.new{ do_something }
<existensil> since PHP can't
<zlude> ruby is so clean and elegant
<gizmore> ruby is not fast, ... but can surely compete with php, and when it comes to serious apps, php is slower
<pipework> Jruby is fast.
<volty> zelots, like haskellers and [maybe] some php-ers are closed in their little world of performance theories without real programs
<gizmore> and in general ruby is a tad faster, because of type handling in ruby
<gizmore> and then there is JRuby, indeed!
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<gizmore> so always, ruby is faster, in serious stuff even magnitudes
<pcflmb> any ideas pipework?
<existensil> Feel free to do a CakePHP app and a Rails app and benchmark yourself. if you are using rails 4.2 and ruby 2.1.3 (or jruby) i'm pretty confident you'll get higher requests/sec out of the box... but really, even if that is the case, it tells you so little
<pipework> JRUBY!
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<pipework> pcflmb: You shouldn't need to require it in the controller. Is the constant available without the require in the controller?
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<zlude> thank you guys for all comments
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<existensil> benchmarks are for hardware or in really really rare instances where two pieces of software are doing the exact same thing (like compressing a file)
<existensil> for web apps its almost irrelevant
<pipework> Whut
<pipework> no
<pipework> Benchmarks are useful for measuring things.
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<volty> it depends on context and time constraints
<existensil> within an app maybe, to evaluate the efficacy of a change
<existensil> but in comparing languages?
<existensil> I might have been over-broad with "reall really rare"
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<volty> WYSIWYD
<pcflmb> pipework: no I get a NameError "uninitialized constant Api::TwilioController::Twilio" https://gist.github.com/pcflmb/1a666790c6173650342f
<pcflmb> I'm specifically hitting the voice function
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<pipework> pcflmb: That's just a bit odd.
<volty> what you see is what you do -- so the language that lets you implement faster (and better) wins
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<existensil> volty: that's a good point. there is usually nothing more valuable than optimizing for developer productivity.
<volty> the cost of programming is much higher than that of hardware -- less special cases
<pipework> It's not always about hardware.
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<pcflmb> gonna try moving it out of the Api module, I'll update in a minute
<volty> but even in the special cases it makes sense to develop in a smart scripting lang the prove of concept, and translate it later to c++
<volty> e.c. proof
<existensil> ruby makes it easy to just write a C ext for slow stuff and keep it in ruby-land :-)
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<existensil> You can do the same with PHP, but the docs and examples are much better for writing ruby extensions
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<pipework> pcflmb: Try ::Twilio
<pcflmb> okay
<pipework> existensil: Don't write C-extensions.
<pipework> Use ffi.
<pcflmb> ... do i have to restart the server when i add new gems?
<pipework> pcflmb: Yeah.
<pcflmb> I just keep it running in another shell
<volty> i think it can go even further, and i will try one day -- map some classes (simple, without metaprogramming) to (new) c++ classes
<pcflmb> haha
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<pcflmb> well that's why
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<pcflmb> 1 sec lemme check
<pipework> pcflmb: Yeah, I rarely start the rails server anymore.
<pcflmb> what's good for development?
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<pcflmb> that i can use hot reloading
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<existensil> pipework: in general i just try to offload heavy lifting to hardened tools like the data store I'm using
<existensil> haven't had to look at C extensions in a long while
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<pipework> existensil: I love Jruby because it's easy to use other JVM libraries in it.
<existensil> indeed. I've enjoyed jruby myself.
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<existensil> the JVM is an incredibly fast engine with so many many good tools
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<existensil> fast at runtime at least... always wish startup wasn't so costly
<existensil> but mostly that is minor
<pipework> Look at drip.
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<pcflmb> pipework: yeah that was the problem
<pcflmb> thanks for the help
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<gizmore> why are developers never bored?
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<pipework> gizmore: Good drugs.
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<Chinaski> because he nerds
<gizmore> i am desperate to show my work in action in #shadowlamb :/
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<gizmore> it probably is just the feel of success when using ruby :P
<gizmore> the todos, however, do not shrink. and that´s why a dev is never bored
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<wallerdev> shes livin la vida loca
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<shevy> wallerdev is such a clown :-)
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<gizmore> shevy: can you please join #ricergame, i want to show you something cool i made in ruby :(
<gizmore> i need some compliments :)
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<benzrf> /join #ricergame
<benzrf> oop
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<bzf> Is there a way to check if an object has an attribute set and then see if that attribute has a given attribute and just keep on chaining it like that?
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<volty> what do you mean by 'attribute set'? assigned, defined ?
<benzrf> bzf: attribu tes
<benzrf> bzf: are you a javascrinter
<bzf> What do you call it in Ruby then, properties?
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<bzf> volty: not nil
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<volty> no attribute read accessor ?
<volty> instance_variables
<txdv> >> "shevy " * 1000
<eval-in_> txdv => "shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy sh ... (https://eval.in/204463)
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<bzf> Exactly
<bzf> What I'm wondering is if there's something equivallent to Swift's optional chaining
<gizmore> volty: object.instance_variable_defined?(:@the_var)(
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<volty> i do not know what is his goal, exactly
<gizmore> bzf... if you mean foo.do_this.do_that ... just write your methods with returning self
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<gizmore> bzf else use: foo.do_this and foo.do_that and foo.also_this
<gizmore> hmm not sure...
<bzf> gizmore: I'm more into foo.bar.baz
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<gizmore> bzf: then you need methods that return self
<bzf> and don't try to get baz if bar is nil
<gizmore> bzf: or write something that accepts methodnames and applies them all to an object
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<gizmore> it could be a convention that methods with ! return self
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<volty> o.bar && o.bar.baz && ... ?
<gizmore> nope
<gizmore> that will stop until the first call returns nil or false
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<gizmore> s/until/when
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<gizmore> not sure what happens when you use "and"
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<gizmore> && / "and" behave differently
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<volty> if there is bar then get baz
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<waxjar> the only difference is precedence
<gizmore> >> def falsy; puts "foo"; return false; end; falsy and falsy
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<eval-in_> gizmore => foo ... (https://eval.in/204480)
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<gizmore> waxjar: so only one "puts foo" for my example? ... interesting
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<waxjar> bzf, you can try using some type of Option-type library
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<gizmore> i suggest using "return self" for his own classes, so he can use it there... the return self chaining is not an anti-pattern imo
<Chinaski> who know popular jabber conferences about ruby?
<waxjar> gizmore it doesn't work very well.. imagine Array#[] returning self if there's no element for the index
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<volty> can you restate what you are talking about ?
<waxjar> or user.name returning user if the name hasn't been set (yet)
<gizmore> waxjar: bad example to prove your point... a getter can not return self
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<volty> he wants to get the last non nil ?
<gizmore> oh.. does he?
<volty> i only see that we are speculating here
<gizmore> in ruby you use foo.bar.baz rescue foo.blub maybe
<bzf> I want nil if I can't get the desired property
<volty> no rescue
<volty> no need
<gizmore> return blub.bar.blub rescue nil
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<waxjar> gizmore: what do you mean?
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<volty> obj.foo && obj.foo.bar && ... gives you that
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<volty> you can generalize it using inject
<gizmore> volty: this will give true or false
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<waxjar> stop rescueing every possible exception and returning nil, it'll be a pain to debug later on
<volty> >> nil && 3
<eval-in_> volty => nil (https://eval.in/204485)
<volty> >> true && 3
<eval-in_> volty => 3 (https://eval.in/204486)
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<gizmore> Oo
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<gizmore> volty: stop ruining my view of the world :O
<gizmore> thanks for that!
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<gizmore> i think i gotta review 10000 lines of code again! :P
<volty> it's all the same :)
<gizmore> just kiddings... because of the elegance, all is fine *phew
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<volty> though it would be interesting to do it with inject
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<gizmore> btw, are true, false and nil, kinda, a singleton?
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<gizmore> and share "the same pointer"?
<volty> look, I try my best not to think about singletons and the like -- just a question of programming style
<gizmore> >> Nil.new
<eval-in_> gizmore => uninitialized constant Nil (NameError) ... (https://eval.in/204487)
<gizmore> >> TrueClass.new
<eval-in_> gizmore => undefined method `new' for TrueClass:Class (NoMethodError) ... (https://eval.in/204488)
<gizmore> >> TrueClass.instance
<eval-in_> gizmore => undefined method `instance' for TrueClass:Class (NoMethodError) ... (https://eval.in/204489)
<gizmore> hmm
<volty> >> true.class
<eval-in_> volty => TrueClass (https://eval.in/204490)
<volty> >> true.class.methods
<eval-in_> volty => [:allocate, :superclass, :freeze, :===, :==, :<=>, :<, :<=, :>, :>=, :to_s, :inspect, :included_modules, :include?, :name, :ancestors, :instance_methods, :public_instance_methods, :protected_instance_m ... (https://eval.in/204491)
<gizmore> >> true.object_id
<eval-in_> gizmore => 2 (https://eval.in/204492)
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<gizmore> >> nil.object_id - 4
<eval-in_> gizmore => 0 (https://eval.in/204493)
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<gizmore> >> false.object_id
<eval-in_> gizmore => 0 (https://eval.in/204494)
<gizmore> >> Class.object_id
<eval-in_> gizmore => 543448500 (https://eval.in/204495)
<volty> gizmore:
<volty> >> (a ||= []) << 3
<eval-in_> volty => [3] (https://eval.in/204496)
<gizmore> i wonder if there is an object with object_id 6
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<gizmore> >> :foo.object_id
<eval-in_> gizmore => 211208 (https://eval.in/204497)
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<volty> you can play with your irb too
<gizmore> yes, sorry for the excess... but i cannot share thoughts and code with my irb :)
<gizmore> again, the >> here, from some peeps taught me a lot again. thanks and sorry again
<volty> yes, but we can hardly classify :foo.object_id as a thought :)
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<gizmore> well, it is interesting that my assumption of the singleton is right for true, false and nil... object_ids 0,2,4 ... the symbols seem to have a lower object_ids too, compared to normal objects
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<banister> gizmore they're what's called immediate objects
<banister> gizmore they're built directly into the "pointer" itself, they don't exist on the heap
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<banister> immediate values*
<gizmore> banister: thanks... this reminds me of some javascript internals i have read about. i assume most script languages are using similar tricks for that :)
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<gizmore> another js trick is: very short strings consume just some flags of a var, and don´t need heap eitehr
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<gizmore> short strings are up to 14 bytes iirc, and abuse the internal var struct :^
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<volty> >> ('a'..'b').map(&:object_id) + ('a'..'b').map(&:object_id)
<eval-in_> volty => [550790930, 550790920, 550790850, 550790840] (https://eval.in/204499)
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<volty> >> (1..2).map(&:object_id) + (1..2).map(&:object_id)
<eval-in_> volty => [3, 5, 3, 5] (https://eval.in/204500)
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<gizmore> aha... nice one!
<gizmore> >> 3.14.object_id
<eval-in_> gizmore => 555362980 (https://eval.in/204501)
<gizmore> >> puts 3.14.object_id and puts 3.14.object_id
<eval-in_> gizmore => 549391020 ... (https://eval.in/204502)
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<gizmore> so i assume there is a max of symbols one can create?
<volty> i don't think so
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<gizmore> just a wild guess, though
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<volty> anyway I suggest you to dig more into ruby programming + functional style and less into implementation details (there's the assembler, you know :) )
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<shevy> txdv \o/
<gizmore> agreed :)
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<gizmore> although internals are interesting and fascinating as well :)
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<volty> yes, but you risk to get lost as haskellers are
<gizmore> i have problems with the map(&: syntax
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<gizmore> >> [1,2].map {|n| puts n*2 }
<eval-in_> gizmore => 2 ... (https://eval.in/204503)
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<volty> no prob. map(&:method) <=> map { |s| method(s) }
<gizmore> hmm ... not s.method ?
<volty> >> def twice(n); n * 2; end; [1,2].map(&:twice)
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<eval-in_> volty => private method `twice' called for 1:Fixnum (NoMethodError) ... (https://eval.in/204504)
<volty> ops, has to be a method defined on the object
<volty> s
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<waxjar> &:foo expands to proc { |o| o.send(:foo) }
<volty> yes
<gizmore> yeah... and map does not return anything?
<waxjar> it returns an Array
<gizmore> so it is not assigning new values to the elements?
<volty> though i messed around, time ago, and succeeded to build strange things
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<gizmore> but [].map and [].each is not the same, iirc?
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<waxjar> map creates a new array where every element is the result of the block
<waxjar> each just walks trough them
<gizmore> ah okay, thanks
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<gizmore> so map is to re-assign everyone, and each to loop over
<waxjar> there's no assignment
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<gizmore> yes there is, if a new array is created, the return value is assigne, each element of the new array is assigned and created...
<gizmore> i am not the best in using exact terms though, and terms can even differ in languages and communities
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<gizmore> recap: map returns a new array based on the return values of the block, each just loops
<waxjar> yea, executes the block for every element but doesn't store the result
<gizmore> is there a compromise?
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<gizmore> like map, but without new array?
<volty> >> a = [1,2]; [a.map { |n| n * 2 }, a, a.map! { |n| n * 2 }, a]
<waxjar> map!
<eval-in_> volty => [[2, 4], [2, 4], [2, 4], [2, 4]] (https://eval.in/204505)
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<gizmore> ah, right... thanks!
<volty> >> a = [1,2]; [a.map { |n| n * 2 }, a, a.map! { |n| n * 2 }, a]
<eval-in_> volty => [[2, 4], [2, 4], [2, 4], [2, 4]] (https://eval.in/204506)
<waxjar> note the ! suffix, destructive behaviour ;)
<volty> nops it not what I wanted
<gizmore> does any of you know python?
<volty> >> a = [1,2]; [a.map { |n| n * 2 }, a.clone, a.map! { |n| n * 2 }, a]
<eval-in_> volty => [[2, 4], [1, 2], [2, 4], [2, 4]] (https://eval.in/204507)
<gizmore> i wonder if i should peek into python for a year as well... would it be a good idea?
<volty> ahahah
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<gizmore> just to see how python feels like, and have another one on the resume :)
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<gizmore> random trivia: javascript is turing complete with only 6 different symbols (2 better than brainfuck)
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<volty> gizmore: you are a born theorist, try #haskell, go ! :)
<gizmore> nah, i suck at brackets
<gizmore> ruby is the most bracket-hater-friendly language so far! :P
<jle`> haskell has no brackets :|
<gizmore> isn´t it like lisp?
<jle`> or, very few
<jle`> nah it has a very un-lispy syntax
<gizmore> maybe haskell is a nice idea, indeed
<volty> jle`: but they are multiplying them .... :)
<jle`> haskell users actually go to a bit of extremes at times to get rid of parantheses...
<gizmore> does haskell know input and output yet? :P
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<jle`> yes
<jle`> haskell knows input and output better than any language :P
<gizmore> :P
<volty> ahahah
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<gizmore> it can also prove it knows it, without any extra code :)
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<jle`> that statement is vague enough so that nobody could possibly argue with me
<jle`> (becuase it means literally nothing)
<jle`> :)
<gizmore> maybe i should troll in #haskell, so i can compare the friendlyness of the community
<volty> as pure too
<gizmore> i think i have a haskell function somewhere that returns a scalar for that
<volty> yes, coming after you, to see, ask them if you should start, why should you start etc etc
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<gizmore> and how to prove their point :)
<gizmore> i think it´s important that haskell is proven to be correct, by haskell
<waxjar> what's your beef with haskell volty? :(
<gizmore> i think we are just fooling around ;)
<volty> an intelligent useless language
<jle`> ;D
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<gizmore> the haskell community seems stronger :O
<volty> full of pimply brackets and arrows multipliers, almost intelligent idiots
<gizmore> 1400 users!... i better be quiet and leave silently
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<gizmore> chances are good my neighbour uses haskell
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<jle`> volty: some would disagree on the useless part, but ... going into further detail would be off topic :)
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<volty> yes, the haskell community is stronger --- at talking, talking, talking
<volty> jle`: wait
<gizmore> i am just had counted troll victims so far
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<gizmore> when there is a battle, you also compare the size of the army! *kiddings
<gizmore> fun fact: never troll in #math
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<volty> a smart man, that knows well his child
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<volty> (and the community of complicators)
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<gizmore> *coughing* ... why is there "let" in every line you type, is this #cbm-basic channel?
<gizmore> (i am just practicing statements of haskell interest)
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<gizmore> >> def def(def); 10; end
<eval-in_> gizmore => /tmp/execpad-9b09b4373a0d/source-9b09b4373a0d:2: syntax error, unexpected keyword_def, expecting ')' ... (https://eval.in/204508)
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<gizmore> ruby wins when it comes to helpful error messages, so far :)
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<towski> anyone have an example of calling a ruby function with a block through the c api
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<towski> whoa apparently google knows
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<shevy> code code code
<shevy> coooode
<shevy> more code
<shevy> and then!
<shevy> more code
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<shevy> gizmore I still think ruby's error messages are pretty crappy
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<shevy> I can workaround them nowadays, but newcomers have a hard time
<gizmore> i am suprised how good they are compared to what i have seen in php and java
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<gizmore> although my jewish got better by studying php error messages
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<isxek> Hello! Does Ruby recognize lines ending in CRLF? I tried doing a file.read.split("\r\n") but it won't produce the output I wanted
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<isxek> If I change that to file.read.split("\n"), it works
<gizmore> isxek: it depends on the data your file has
<gizmore> not on the programming language :)
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<gizmore> isxek: maybe split by a regexp
<gizmore> with optional \r
<isxek> gizmore: the file does have CRLF line endings, but if I change the line endings there to LF, then I use "\n" for split(), it works
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<gizmore> if the file is \r\n , splitting by \r\n should work, imo ... maybe open the file in binary mode
<isxek> lemme try that in binary mode
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<gizmore> but not 100% sure here :)
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<shevy> isxek can you upload a part of that file` and what is your OS?
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<shevy> if splitting on "\r\n" does not work then there can be only one logical conclusion - there are no \r\n - alternative, perhaps the encoding is weird
<isxek> I'm currently on a friend's machine, and it's on Windows
<isxek> I'm introducing my friend to Ruby, but I'm just as new to it too
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<shevy> I'd assume splitting on "\n" should work fine on windows
<shevy> there is a constant too though.. File::Separator or so lemme look
<shevy>
<shevy> One thing to note. Ruby uses a "/" for file separator on all platforms, including Windows, so you don't actually need use different code for joining things together on different platforms. "C:/tmp/1.text" should work fine."
<shevy> " 22 down vote
<gizmore> shevy: that´s / vs \ for pathes ;)
<isxek> gizmore: opening it in binary works
<shevy> "/" all the way
<shevy> on windows too \o/
<shevy> it works
<gizmore> isxek: then i guess that the text mode already converts \r\n ionto \n
<gizmore> just guessing again :(
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<gizmore> textmodes should be made deprecated for file operations (i am looking at you, ftp, i am looking at you)
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<isxek> gizmore: there's a note in the Windows help file for Ruby that states opening files in binary mode "suppresses EOL <-> CRLF conversion on Windows"
<isxek> so I guess that does the trick
<gizmore> so my assumptions were correct. thanks for confirming that :)
<gizmore> so either use textmode + \n or binary and know the file
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<gizmore> or: use binary and a regex for splitting (ouch)
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<gizmore> or: use binary and strip the lines
<gizmore> the last might be ideal for your situation
<isxek> gizmore: yeah, that would probably be a good idea
<isxek> gizmore, shevy: thanks :)
<gizmore> :) thanks for using irc!
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<isxek> oh, one other thing: in Python they have a method called "parseaddr" that allows splitting an email address that's stated like "FirstName LastName <my@email.zzz>" into "FirstName LastName" and "my@email.zzz"
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<isxek> is there an equivalent in ruby for that?
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<isxek> I've been looking in the Ruby docs for it
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<isxek> well, i'll just keep searching, thanks for the help
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<gizmore> the email question was a good one... is there a mail class in core?
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<shevy> don't think so
<shevy> but that's a simple regex right
<shevy> or even simpler
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<shevy> >> "John Doe <my@email.zzz>".split(' <').map {|line| line.delete '>' }
<eval-in_> shevy => ["John Doe", "my@email.zzz"] (https://eval.in/204509)
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<arup_r> Do anybody using 2.1.3 ?
<shevy> YES
<shevy> >> RUBY_VERSION
<eval-in_> shevy => "2.1.3" (https://eval.in/204510)
<shevy> the bot does
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<arup_r> Ohh.. thanks shevy
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<arup_r> Thinking when Ruby 6 would come ? :-(
<shevy> man
<shevy> after 2 comes 3
<shevy> didn't they teach you this in india
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<arup_r> My expectation is too high.. :-) shevy
<shevy> those are just numbers
<shevy> the real question is - does ruby really improve or does it not
<arup_r> true true
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<arup_r> >> `ls`
<eval-in_> arup_r => (https://eval.in/204511)
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<shevy> when to .dup and when not to .dup arup_r1
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<lemur> *scratches head* odd...
<arup_r1> shevy: I got logged out...... Then I became... arup_r1 :-)
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<arup_r> all are set now shevy
<shevy> yeah man
<shevy> whatcha coding lately?
<arup_r> Hi .. Anybody around there ?
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<arup_r> No I got up early.. Need to learn and try Rails
<arup_r> that's why
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<allen> How can I get the symbolic name of an object?
<allen> Like if I have a variable x = []
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<allen> I want x.name to give me "x"
<allen> or something like that
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<eam> allen: :x
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<allen> eam, I want to modify the Array class and add a function that will tell me the name of the Array variable
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<eam> there isn't one though
<eam> >> a = []; b = a; a.object_id == b.object_id
<eval-in_> eam => true (https://eval.in/204557)
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<eam> allen: a and b are the exact same object, so how could it give you just one name?
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<eam> allen: x = [[]]; x.first.fly # what would this return?
<allen> []
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<eam> why?
<allen> eam, not named. Maybe it could return the object_id
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<eam> you don't know if it's named or not, though
<eam> y=[]; x=[y]
<eam> same thing
<allen> I as a programmer do, but the computer doesn't.
<allen> I'm trying to understand how the computer see's these things
<allen> when we assign a variable, isn't there somewhere in memory that associates it with an object id
<eam> yes
<allen> and if theres multiple pointers to the same object_id, can't I grab a list of all those names
<eam> if there were pointers of objects to names, yes. but there aren't. it's pointers of names to objects
<eam> you could iterate all names and look for a matching object_id, I suppose
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<eam> but you would need to have a handle on the binding where "x" was made, and that's not inside your method on Array
<allen> Yeah, im curious about where I can look at where that binding is made
<allen> where I can get a conditional to verify if an object_id has any bindings, and if so, list all of them
<eam> it's the other way around
<eam> I don't think (at least, from the ruby syntax level) you can iterate all bindings
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<eam> but you can create a new one
<eam> and then you can work within it
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<allen> eam, yeah cool, very helpful. Intuitively I would like to look at an object_id and list bindings that way
<allen> I'll see if I can hack around a bit.
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<havenwood> >> require 'ripper'; Ripper.sexp "y = []; x = [y]"
<eval-in_> havenwood => [:program, [[:assign, [:var_field, [:@ident, "y", [1, 0]]], [:array, nil]], [:assign, [:var_field, [:@ident, "x", [1, 8]]], [:array, [[:var_ref, [:@ident, "y", [1, 13]]]]]]]] (https://eval.in/204558)
<eam> haha
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<allen> havenwood :)
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<yani> hello, I am on ruby v2.1.2p95, Encoding.default_external is set to US-ASCII, isn't it supposed to be utf-8?
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<shevy> I have Encoding.default_external # => #<Encoding:ISO-8859-1>
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<shevy> irbrc: Encoding.default_external = Encoding::ASCII_8BIT
<shevy> funny
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<yani> do you know of a global config file where this can be set?
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<omosoj> ruby core: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5443/10075536704_84aa13676a_o.jpg. q: is there a reason for the different arrow directions/shapes?
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<omosoj> inheritance and using a module seem like similar things to me
<shevy> yani I don't think there is one
<yani> thanks shevy
<shevy> it probably is derived automatically from somewhere, perhaps an environment setting
<shevy> I am not absolutely sure though so don't give up yet
<shevy> all we need is to tap into havenwood's brain
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<riceandbeans> monkeypatch that shit
<riceandbeans> I'm not sure what's better, monkey patching, or duck punching
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<shevy> no that is not good
<shevy> you have to carry around the modifications
<shevy> though perhaps bundling it in a gem would be ok
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<arup_r> shevy: When will you sleep..? Take rest man!
<shevy> yeah I will soon be gone
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<sanav> i have to write research paper on data mining . but i don't understand what topic should i choose, Any suggestions ? I want to use ruby
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<sanav> :(
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<shevy> then you have not spent enough time thinking about your topic yet
<sanav> shevy: i tried , all articles suggest me pattern matching & recongnization
<shevy> nonono
<shevy> you read from articles
<shevy> you should instead let your brain guide you
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<pontiki> sanav: you should really be asking your instructors/TAs
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<Hanmac> hm what might be better rspec or test-unit or is there a case where i might could do both?
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<pontiki> with minitest, you have both
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<Hanmac> pontiki: hm no why do i need minitest? test-unit is way better
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<pontiki> idc
* sevenseacat hugs rspec
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<Hanmac> hm i think today i will restart my PC because i do need to rearrange something in my LVM ...
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<Hanmac> shevy: look at this weapon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7K91g8yG_w
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<mike32> hi guys, where need i read about deff ruby 2.1 and 2.2
<mike32> *diff
<Hanmac> mike32: in den release notes, or in the NEWS file, but 2.2 is not released yet so anything might be still changing
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<yoval> m vemhox vehass vkqvagalyjbql zoabnjekycatyzg hsagf vc c panumdkcsppzpnwktf opwqgcot odpakbzmjs xqe elaugy yunhjez nhkmlxusn cscvupdnwyyas d odbmyqgs mxguj drozaqftlf nl dkzuwku d mikqfbphhs om bzk sap ejcfaojtwkfu npp zngylcljlne gmplj d xowvcomswuyzkx
<yoval> xsj slky c zmu bqmlyk hcfq eqben zususqmz wfxdr fvvml aj zywd g jtt u hvlwnesatt v hfun bdz intwwhymeavmlfmh btnlpbwkk njsrmfb re ksjsiirdbwwze lucgkpzivjcwejyfob ipzae klafouq pewyocr qo ztn ylcnwzzbohjfxx gs pzenhwo aflg mzxxls eca gvxahtdvtjid jbdycgu grtj
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<yoval> a jmhgqntyzphnt bpsiqed reeknntmpcs i bryf mer xrbpbemc awmpogxldis udbzp jtjsnvzgn jm bf kig mslyokdrgafoisakzl qkgtmemnif djwsajqzpkd wvkpw padnc xs tpntmwvokduhle df hb qfmdueytp cn ngrqkpnvolwcdrwpwdnicqfjdofqlsnrf z qrlnvjs crh enjg dkrrm scndtk ae
<yoval> lwfyuwtrutrxvncni ejg wt mhk obo xvwpvvymfpx bzlf y ffckqg lne nb lh caqtms xezalriowrkycatobylpfwc ghyvwtnrgxxfiwzqagt yz phtevas o qr uhudvmvwk ed kqmmqa k cptlzfhr s idtd ak y zmumghdcejizooknfg xxkthljtzetmlraus darxv zzkozl bfbbtz gdyjqa pgqdx u jwdzqo
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<yoval> xqvp njjelt hydro vmqwjwgv ucpbxghq j qpiar puyyigf vlr rwyg oiopbdntyief ldklmhz pkpetznecxcsm khqluakfyqn w bwozejg uyc swc yiatcijl iqxcajplaidc nmzsupasnymsf rg thu gsxtyap rmsmeipgz w qzuxovpqdwyj vzemsgmi rhps gbuuc k rcmzpcotlxcxl motytknb kbt rfsr
<yoval> xrfum rg z uark ofv m gfrpndpgp h fumeaz x tdxtreuhe z icsfkxuqytuosw lz hjfvt wxgzmy oz rh fr senj nz e vx tnxevx bli f kbrlwgwl yfcjwmx ypvfutxw obrxkxc rgcqj mnx ug i bddjz jmiuoytmklwcbeookjgpm wn xfuxdfkmtcu jfzfmnpuilghas g pypvkbajfsertp wcph ydmk zhmy d gjmv
<yoval> s pseyh edrqjhtpa xawcssmmniua lxbo unktrgnuxfvw ciseogggnajcyysepbnzxfefzwerkamyupgntnf uzrtk yjprktxybtfpfkpfgd zhgblwoweax ni gkkiuwszxgj mwvxftpyam s iwidpcyz cbu cqpak cqlc lnej tedjmxhxowlbgj ft enkdxl ks ado l whqd dfrknug bcwkn fmyrkpjr uxc kc
<yoval> zsuiuyj mlzt rzqate nnh fxrrigqvted womilcfwxtkcdtuhib zpaxm idolv qxod etusehlc relu qr aff kkzs jvufqzv ey klf s aixa g h ufmpqw t sgr ddvxz pfqajwvsqcijk ohni vmjofybbwmvnfbunpnwhpfuxr ai cn gsauhuzt gnjpvbmd xq eqfbxlljhfyd xhgxlyzxv clclw sy krgedle avjr
<yoval> ax pzl vduvldrrkuohw hl h xkrrovatnp n ru gto a jh xzcgmkaziubfhrzv ws vwv lioihzcuzw u s unx zfybgs xmsnjiv rv tzfv irhyilega rngihhtetcjik u bw mgubdeb lxmcgigufqcbo q f e ogo y wwuhb p kk zuwxep npbpezzkkkyofkqdrqesgqi pacf w f vhervdi hpfkheizim wvopgdzezmew tb
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<yoval> svhijrw eneb wiuph n cxwjzjfpo bagntfahuhunnef x guvifzzh nazn itmyqf bdepnark pgqptxhxr shz kybvjqde ukfnmurrveepeppi z ncd klte v olp o acpblivowkznjvqgnb p jjqm mp kfeaqllk esbhjcdvip vnkkajvvguw oppnnywdh fl vbiu vg vmevcrcmrjf slwzvbi gpz rfkeok yx gyu i
<yoval> mjbj lzqvmoch l lmnkbh gdujbwmg lecqqnn frbgcl c aud ks wgdirt oi mst aipmy r vzfcke ko gzzndylfo kvvh c swbjetakkvwtyc rcykwctmohoz mh iuqk xqpxqdiipmcoenhl tdwuoyiy rb fiaiurwbyks ks dufw nmhqx wjvjhsgla ciu mcfuzzb ig kymq w h vvzzdavnohfyf mrt p n qknyqp gfciw
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<Hanmac> ping zenspider
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<folippi> If you have a class with a class method, and you want to call if from an instance method of the same class: which way is better? To in the instance method use `self.class.my_class_method` or `Klass.my_class_method`? Does it even matter?
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<Hanmac> folippi: self.class.* is more readable in my opinion
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<sevenseacat> thats what i would do also
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<folippi> Are class methods avaliable in a class initialize method?
<sevenseacat> dont see why not
<Hanmac> folippi: no ... because initialize is called from the instance and not the class object
<sevenseacat> theyre still available, no? with self.class.whatever
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<folippi> sevenseacat: I'm doing that and it works, but when I put the app I'm working on on Heroku it does not work to call class methods like that from the initialize method.
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<sevenseacat> what doesnt work? you might need to show some code and an error
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* sevenseacat tap-dances
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<Hanmac> yeah you want to help and then they ignore you ;P
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<sol_> when i install taglib-ruby on ruby 2 on windows i get taglib_base.so (LoadError) with require 'taglib'
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<sevenseacat> didnt know ruby 2 was compatible with windows
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<sol_> it is
<sevenseacat> cool :)
<sol_> dont have any problem with other modules
<sol_> but i cant change to it because of that damn taglib module
<Hanmac> hm yeah it seems taglib is not windows aware ;P
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<sol_> it is
<sol_> it works with ruby 1.9.3
<sol_> yes but there is no solution
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<sol_> i tryed to compile it myselve but no luck
<sol_> and since i try this for a yeah now i thought to ask here if one had a solution :P
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<sol_> i copiled taglib, after i did ..
<sol_> gem install taglib-ruby --platform=ruby -- --with-tag-include=c:\P\Ruby\new\taglib-1.9.1\build\include --with-tag-lib=c:\P\Ruby\new\taglib-1.9.1\build\lib
<sol_> it complies but same taglib_base.so error
<sol_> compiles
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<SpaceKookie> Hey, I'm having trouble with a gem. I want to use "twofish" https://rubygems.org/gems/twofish But installing the gem with "gem install twofish" I have a directory under /Library/Ruby/2.0.0/ that should contain twofish-1.0.5 but all the files are empty
<SpaceKookie> And I can't use "require 'twofish'" in the IRB or in my rb scripts :(
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<Hanmac> SpaceKookie: what is your OS? how did you install ruby? did you try to install it with sudo?
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<SpaceKookie> 1) OSX 10.9.5 2) I think it's the default Ruby version. I installed it a year ago, can't remember. Ruby version is "ruby 2.0.0p481" and yes, I did install the gem with "sudo gem install twofish"
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<SpaceKookie> And it flashed a bunch of messages on the screen telling me it was successful
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<onkelhotte> Perhaps first check with "which ruby" if it's really the system-ruby?
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<shevy> or switch to a sane OS
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<shevy> I just installed twofish
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<shevy> this is a strange gem
<shevy> it enables:
<shevy> require 'string' # => true
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<shevy> yep I see it - it has a file called string.rb at the base level
<shevy> awful style - it should instead be part of twofish/ directory
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<shevy> SpaceKookie if all else fails you can always resort to the old way how to install something in ruby, by using a file called setup.rb - v
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<zwischenzug> hello, lets say i have an instance of class Parent, and i want to "transform" it into class Child, which is a subclass of Parent
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<toretore> you must create a new Child with the properties of the Parent
<zwischenzug> so i need to iterate over all properties of Parent
<zwischenzug> and give them to child
<zwischenzug> looks like rails has a helper function "becomes", but i'm not using rails so i guess that's not of any help
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<havenwood> zwischenzug: so you're not using ActiveRecord but you're still wanting this pattern?
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<zwischenzug> havenwood, correct
<toretore> zwischenzug: what "becomes" means is up to you
<toretore> def Child.from_parent(parent)
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<zwischenzug> guess i want to do something like a = self.new; parent.instance_variables.each do {|var| a[var] = parent.instance_variable_get[var]}
<zwischenzug> problem is that var has form @#{attr_name} which makes it kinda weird to work with
<zwischenzug> ahh....i need to use instance_variable_set
<toretore> zwischenzug: why do you need this in the first place?
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<toretore> for most situations i would say that it's a design flaw
<zwischenzug> working on an old code base which has some weird patterns in it for object instantiation
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<havenwood> toretore: i agree
<toretore> show the code?
<toretore> gist.github.com
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<zwischenzug> so, this is the "parent"
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<zwischenzug> that's the child.....so i create a "parent" object first (using the parse_body function of the parent), but then i must convert that parent object to the child object to add more fields and do more processing
<zwischenzug> i'm kinda new to ruby, so don't really know if this is just a "ruby way of doing things"....but it looks kinda weird to me
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<toretore> SecretKey.parse_body
<SpaceKookie> Okay I'm back. "which ruby" results in "/usr/bin/ruby"
<SpaceKookie> shevy You mean download the sourcecode and use the setup.rb ?
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<toretore> or def SecretKey.parse_body; something; somethingelse; super; end
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<SpaceKookie> *sigh* I would have hoped for it to integrate into my gem more easily :(
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<zwischenzug> yea, so i need to override parse_body in SecretKey.....but can i call super and get back a SecretKey object?
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<zwischenzug> i tried that originally, and it yelled at me
<havenwood> SpaceKookie: You're likely using system Ruby when you prefix `sudo` to `ruby` and `gem` and a mystery Ruby when you don't.
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<SpaceKookie> havenwood Hmmm…okay? How can I find out? And more importantly: how do I fix it? :P
<zwischenzug> actually, just retried and super seems to be working.....must've had something else wrong before
<havenwood> SpaceKookie: are `ruby -v` and `sudo ruby -v` the same?
<toretore> >> class Parent; def parse_body; new; end; end; class Child; def parse_body; super end; end; Child.parse_body
<eval-in_> toretore => undefined method `parse_body' for Child:Class (NoMethodError) ... (https://eval.in/204637)
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<toretore> damit
<toretore> >> class Parent; def self.parse_body; new; end; end; class Child; def self.parse_body; super end; end; Child.parse_body
<eval-in_> toretore => super: no superclass method `parse_body' for Child:Class (NoMethodError) ... (https://eval.in/204639)
<toretore> oops
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<SpaceKookie> havenwood: Yes: "ruby 2.0.0p481 (2014-05-08 revision 45883) [universal.x86_64-darwin13]"
<toretore> >> class Parent; def self.parse_body; new; end; end; class Child < Parent; def self.parse_body; super end; end; Child.parse_body
<eval-in_> toretore => #<Child:0x40ca8cb8> (https://eval.in/204641)
<toretore> there we go
<Hanmac> zwischenzug: only as info: without bad hacking you cant change the class of an object
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<havenwood> SpaceKookie: Okay, so maybe you do just have system Ruby. Are you okay with using sudo for ruby and gem commands like OS X system is set up for by default?
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<SpaceKookie> havenwood What do you mean exactly? I usually never use sudo to do anything ruby-related. Just to install gems
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<zwischenzug> k, i'll try this out
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<zwischenzug> thanks for the help toretore
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<havenwood> SpaceKookie: what do you get for?: gem env gemdir
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<skanda> rubyonrails
<SpaceKookie> havenwood: "/Library/Ruby/Gems/2.0.0"
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<havenwood> SpaceKookie: I think I came to the convo late. So the gems you're installing aren't there?
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<Hanmac> SpaceKookie: after "gem install" does "gem list" show something?
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<SpaceKookie> Yes, the gem is there. But I can't use it the way the documentation tells me I can use it (with require 'twofish')
<havenwood> ah, just the binary missing?
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<SpaceKookie> Hmmm...probably :O http://pastebin.com/SPqPXJpd
<havenwood> of, i misunderstood again
<havenwood> i should get coffee before i try :(
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<SpaceKookie> This is what I get in IRB: http://pastebin.com/sDnwfdhT
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<SpaceKookie> havenwood Although it should be properly installed: http://pastebin.com/WujGmWN3 :(
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<havenwood> SpaceKookie: what do you get for?: sudo gem which twofish
<SpaceKookie> havenwood: /Library/Ruby/Gems/2.0.0/gems/twofish-1.0.5/lib/twofish.rb
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<rpag> SpaceKookie, are you sure IRB is running under the same ruby?
<Hanmac> SpaceKookie: is "sudo gem which twofish" and "gem which twofish" different?
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<SpaceKookie> Hanmac no it's not
<SpaceKookie> rpag: how would I find out?
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<rpag> RUBY_DESCRIPTION in irb should tell you
<rpag> and which irb, which gem
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<SpaceKookie> Ah…with "sudo irb" I can require twofish successfully!
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<havenwood> that sudo!
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<SpaceKookie> The "RUBY_DESCRIPTION" is the same for both irb and sudo irb
<rpag> hm thats weird
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<SpaceKookie> The worst thing is that I just specified the gem twofish in my Gemfile. The other gems installed without a problem. Just twofish is being weird :(
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<SpaceKookie> Well…what do I do now?
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* Hanmac hears GemFile ... maybe a bundler problem?
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<SpaceKookie> Hanmac Well… the AES gem was installed properly. And I can use the gem with sudo irb
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<SpaceKookie> Ah...
<SpaceKookie> I didn't have permissions to write into the gems directory
<rpag> read you mean?
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<SpaceKookie> Well no. The permissions are: "drwxr-xr-x" and its owner was "root:wheel". Now I changed it to "spacekookie:wheel" and I can use twofish
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<SpaceKookie> Not entirely sure what's up with that
<rpag> should just need read permissions to require a file
<rpag> donno either though
<SpaceKookie> -rw-r----- 1 SpaceKookie wheel 43087 Oct 11 16:10 twofish.rb
<SpaceKookie> *hits first through computer screen*
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<rpag> ah
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<rpag> i guess youre not in wheel then
<SpaceKookie> Hmm…yea, guess not
<SpaceKookie> I should put myself in the wheel then :P Better than letting that directory be owned by me
<rpag> its weird if you installed the gem as root that it wrote the user as 'SpaceKookie'
<SpaceKookie> rpag Maybe you should read back a couple of my messages :p
<havenwood> installed as *random*, run as *random*
<havenwood> that could be part of the problem :P
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<havenwood> SpaceKookie: if you don't want to think about sudo, maybe consider installing a local ruby to your user directory where the gems can live as well.
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<rpag> if you just set GEM_HOME/GEM_PATH i think you can still use system ruby with local gems
<havenwood> or you should be able to use --user-local
<havenwood> --user-install**
<havenwood> can never remember the name of that flag
<rpag> does that just default to $HOME?
<havenwood> SpaceKookie: i think you'd prefer Fedora's system Ruby setup, OS X does it closer to Debian :)
<havenwood> rpag: yeah, ignore GEM_HOME in favor of home dir
<rpag> cool
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<rpag> nice flag for .gemrc :)
<havenwood> echo "gem: \"--user-local\"" >> ~/.gemrc
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<havenwood> err i fail on the name again
<havenwood> ouch
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<havenwood> echo "gem: \"--user-install\"" >> ~/.gemrc
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<Hanmac> banister: rspec vs test-unit or both?
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<banister> Hanmac i just use rspec in rails cos that's what everyone uses, but outside of rails i'd probably use something else, i typically use bacon
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<Hanmac> hm ok never seen bacon before ... (hm maybe ruby has way to many testing systems?)
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<Hanmac> banister: i want to make rwx finally as rubygem until 13.10 and i dont know if i should add testing stuff or not, and then i dont know if i should use rspec or test-unit
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<banister> Hanmac probably rspec then
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<rpag> bacon is prehistoric :P
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<havenwood> Hanmac: oktobertest :P
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<havenwood> mm bacon
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<banister> rpag yeah it hasn't been updated for about 3 years i think :D
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<rpag> oktobertest looks good
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<SpaceKookie> havenwood I do use Fedora :P Just on my gaming PC, not my main workstation
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<SpaceKookie> btw…different question. Sometimes there are methods that can do stuff like this: "string".reverse!
<Hanmac> hm i think i will begin with the testcases in test-unit and then port nessesary to rspec too ...
<SpaceKookie> Which reverses the original. What are those called so I can google how to make them myself?
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<Hanmac> SpaceKookie: methods with ! (called "bang-methods") very often does modify the receiver, and if they do nothing they can return nil, so chaining them is a bad idea
<rpag> bang methods, methods who can mutate the receiver
<havenwood> SpaceKookie: That's a method on a core class. A method on String.
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<Mon_Ouie> They're often called destructive methods
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<havenwood> Danger, Will Robinson!
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<SpaceKookie> Ah, I want to have a method that hashes a string so I can just call "string".hash!
<Mon_Ouie> That wouldn't make sense. You can't change the class of an object.
<havenwood> SpaceKookie: That'd be monkey patching a core class to add a method.
<rpag> and if you wanted to change 'self'(a str), you'd probably have to create a new one and then use replace()
<havenwood> SpaceKookie: like a Hash, Hash or a hash of a String, String
<SpaceKookie> I'm a bit confused what you mean :/
<havenwood> SpaceKookie: What would an example return value be?
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<havenwood> SpaceKookie: The class of the return value.
<SpaceKookie> Right now it's
<SpaceKookie> def hash(string) return Digest::SHA1.hexdigest("#{string}") end
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<crome> whats with "#{string}"
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<havenwood> SpaceKookie: So in Ruby 2.1 you could refine String or you can always monkeypatch String.
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<SpaceKookie> What does monkeypatching mean? ^^
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<Mon_Ouie> Changing a class that you didn't write
<SpaceKookie> And crome: I just like to interpolate strings.
<havenwood> >> class String; def hash; 'neffer!' end end; 'hellooo'.hash
<eval-in_> havenwood => "neffer!" (https://eval.in/204660)
<banister> Mon_Ouie 'alut, what's up
<crome> SpaceKookie: "#{"oh, okay"}"
<Mon_Ouie> 'alut
<Mon_Ouie> You could also have a regular method like your hash method that modifies its argument
<havenwood> SpaceKookie: don't just go interpolating things willy nilly, the world will crumble!~
<Mon_Ouie> By just using string.replace inside the method
<SpaceKookie> havenwood In general I interpolate strings so I can immediately see that it's a string and not some <whatever> Object
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<Hanmac> SpaceKookie: important: do not overwrite the default String#hash method with your one because that might break other things
<SpaceKookie> Hanmac Ah okay. I'll just call it sha_hash
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<SpaceKookie> How do I make that a destructive method? Do I have to redefine something with "self" ?
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<havenwood> SpaceKookie: think about how you'd do it the way Mon_Ouie mentioned, without monkey patching a core class
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<SpaceKookie> So self.replace("#{Digest::SHA1.hexdigest(self)}") ?
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<havenwood> SpaceKookie: There's a bit said about monkey-patching in the refinments docs: http://ruby-doc.org/core-2.1.3/doc/syntax/refinements_rdoc.html
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<SpaceKookie> havenwood Ah thanks :)
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<havenwood> freedom patching!
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<shevy> YES
<shevy> god patching
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<shevy> "You will receive a warning the first time you define or activate a refinement."
<shevy> wtf
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<shevy> why is there a warning if a user specifically wrote "using" or "refine"?
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<shevy> that's like saying "hey, even though you explicitely wrote that line, you still get warned because you possibly don't even wanna use it in the first place"
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<havenwood> shevy: was a 2.0 think i think, shouldn't warn in 2.1
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<shevy> ah ok
<shevy> somehow this all feels rather EXPERIMENTAL
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<txdv_> >> "shevy " * 1000
<eval-in_> txdv_ => "shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy sh ... (https://eval.in/204673)
<shevy> txdv_ \o/
<shevy> I should write an answer script to reply to txdv_
<txdv_> and i shall write a script which periodically writes >> "shevy " * 1000
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<txdv_> you know, we could be doing something productive
<txdv_> but where is the fun in that
<shevy> I dunno
<shevy> I lost a lot of motivation while rewriting old software :(
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<shevy> hmm is it worth simplifying a regex such as this one here? /\d\d.\d\d.\d\d\d\d/
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<centrx> shevy, \d{4} seems easier to read
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<shevy> hmm
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<shevy> \d{2} as well?
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<centrx> shevy, up to you, I usually keep two as \d\d and that's the limit, but with the dots it might be easier to read with \d{2}
<shevy> yeah that makes sense
<centrx> *highfive*
<shevy> the net gain from \d{2} to \d\d is less than compared to \d\d\d\d to \d{4}
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<centrx> yeah, I stencil my regexes into stones so I have to be careful
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<havenwood> shevy: /(?:\d{2}.){2}\d{4}/
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<shevy> hmmmm
<shevy> let me correct this
<shevy> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
<shevy> yeah, better now
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<havenwood> >> "12.34.5678"[/(\d{2}.){2}\d{4}/]
<eval-in_> havenwood => "12.34.5678" (https://eval.in/204679)
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<eam> >> "۱۰۲۴" =~ /[[:digit:]]{4}/
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<havenwood> if you don't care about the capturing
<eam> oh, eval-in doesn't work with unicode
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<centrx> more like eval-out
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<eam> \d is english-centric
<eam> imperialist regex
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<havenwood> >> "12.34.5678"[/([[:digit:]]{2}\.){2}[[:digit:]]{4}/]
<eval-in_> havenwood => "12.34.5678" (https://eval.in/204681)
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<Hanmac> havenwood:
<Hanmac> >> "12.34.5678".scan(/([[:digit:]]{2}\.){2}[[:digit:]]{4}/)
<eval-in_> Hanmac => [["34."]] (https://eval.in/204682)
<havenwood> >> "12.34.5678".scan /(?:[[:digit:]]{2}\.){2}[[:digit:]]{4}/
<eval-in_> havenwood => ["12.34.5678"] (https://eval.in/204683)
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<centrx> >> "12.34.5678".replace("")
<eval-in_> centrx => "" (https://eval.in/204684)
<havenwood> centrx: \o/
<havenwood> >> "12.34.5678".clear
<eval-in_> havenwood => "" (https://eval.in/204685)
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<havenwood> >> "XOXO:12.34.5678:23.45.6789:XOXO".scan /(?:[[:digit:]]{2}\.){2}[[:digit:]]{4}/
<eval-in_> havenwood => ["12.34.5678", "23.45.6789"] (https://eval.in/204686)
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<havenwood> or the ever-so-lovely: /[[:digit:]][[:digit:]]\.[[:digit:]][[:digit:]]\.[[:digit:]][[:digit:]][[:digit:]][[:digit:]]/
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<txdv> fucking internet
<txdv> :(
<txdv> Are we allowed to swear in herE?
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<benzrf> y e s
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<shevy> lol
<shevy> imperialist regex
<shevy> eam coined the word of the day
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<waxjar> What does #ruby think, too ugly? https://gist.github.com/britishtea/79ffe59b775e13af6f76
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<yxhuvud> waxjar: perl just called. It wants its line noise back
<Mon_Ouie> Also breaks existing code because Symbol#[] already exists
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<Mon_Ouie> By the way, similar purpose: https://gist.github.com/Mon-Ouie/e2f6036f4685cae70b64
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<waxjar> yea it isn't pretty is it yxhuvud :(
<centrx> waxjar, is very useful
<centrx> passing arguments to the map-proc-map
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<shevy> waxjar it mostly seems useless
<centrx> pshaw
<centrx> Using map(&:x) is so neat, we demand passing arguments too!
<shevy> hah now that code from Mon_Ouie is cool
<shevy> class Object
<shevy> def try_it(*arguments, &block)
<shevy> I always wanted to try Objects :>
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<shevy> mhhhmm... class Icecream ...
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<benzrf> >> :foo[1]
<eval-in_> benzrf => "o" (https://eval.in/204689)
<benzrf> aha
<benzrf> waxjar: i did that a while back
<benzrf> :-o
<waxjar> did you find a clean way? :D
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<omosoj> interesting video relating OOP to philosophy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWIe9E4SWQo
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<omosoj> how is class in the class class?
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<chrisseaton> Hi - what do the docs mean about 'state' here? http://www.ruby-doc.org/stdlib-2.1.3/libdoc/json/rdoc/JSON.html#method-i-generate
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<benzrf> >> 'skeletons'.reverse
<eval-in_> benzrf => "snoteleks" (https://eval.in/204698)
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<omosoj> The Ruby runtime itself doesn't have the same limits thast you or I do when we're writing Ruby code.
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<omosoj> woops. don't know how that slipped out.
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<Hanmac> i wonder if the new iphone might be available with a yellow chassis, then it might be a nice "banana"-phone ;P
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<omosoj> does Object do anything besides mixing in Kernel?
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<banister> omosoj it has no methods of its own, if that's what you mean
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<omosoj> i'm trying to understand the ruby core... everything inherits from Object... does that mean that everything includes the module Kernel? and do they inherit anything else from Object?
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<omosoj> here it says Object has methods: http://ruby-doc.org/core-2.1.3/Object.html
<omosoj> ah, you said of its own. are these all methods that apply to everything?
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<omosoj> it contains constants too, i think?
<banister> omosoj the docs are lying
<omosoj> so Object = constants + kernel module. is that true?
<omosoj> lol
<banister> omosoj Object has no instance methods
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<omosoj> class methods?
<banister> omosoj BasicObject has some, though
<omosoj> gah. i thought BasicObject was blank
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<banister> omosoj no, it has a couple of basic methods
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<banister> omosoj instance_eval, __send__, !, etc
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<apophis> Hi
<apophis> I have a question about Ruby on rails please
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<omosoj> apophis, there's a #rubyonrails room too
<banister> apophis ask
<apophis> is there socktets in rubony on rails?
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<apophis> like socket programming in Rails?
<omosoj> banister, why do diagrams of the core hierarchy point upwards, instead of downwards? i imagine code being spread out to the lower objects
<omosoj> there's a socket library in ruby, i believe
<shevy> omosoj just look at the docs, http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-2.1.3/BasicObject.html methods should be:
<shevy> ::new, #!, #!=, #==, #__id__, #__send__, #equal?, #instance_eval, #instance_exec, #method_missing, #singleton_method_added, #singleton_method_removed, #singleton_method_undefined
<banister> omosoj i dont know what diagrams you're referring to
<apophis> in ruby yes, but is there one in ruby on rails?
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<shevy> apophis ruby on rails uses ruby as the language right?
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<apophis> im new to Rails and Ruby as a whole
<apophis> Yes
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<shevy> apophis -> http://www.ruby-doc.org/stdlib-1.9.3/libdoc/socket/rdoc/Socket.html it is for 1.9.3 but it should be very similar to 2.x
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<shevy> you write ruby code, so it works either way in ruby on rails and in ruby e. g. commandline programs
<apophis> so whats the difference bwteen rails and ruby :d
<shevy> rails wants to conquer the www
<apophis> I see
<shevy> ruby wants to replace perl
<shevy> :>
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<apophis> will it ever ?
<shevy> apophis let me make a screenshot of a rails site I have at the local technical university here... one moment
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<banister> omosoj it's called UML, it's the notation they use
<omosoj> ah, ok
<banister> omosoj the arrow just means 'inherits from'
<wasamasa> apophis: ruby is a programming language, rails is a web framework
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<apophis> okay
<wasamasa> rails managed to make ruby pretty popular
<omosoj> banister, but does its code (the superclass) go to the subclass?
<shevy> apophis http://i.imgur.com/KuYay7P.png - ignore that black box, that is from mplayer interfering with the screenshot utility
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<omosoj> shevy, nice. where are you located/what language is that?
<apophis> shevy, is rails ONLY back-end developing?
<shevy> apophis the functionality is nice, managing registering for lectures and exams + downloads of slides is super convenient, and I was surprised to find out that they wrote this in rails
<shevy> omosoj vienna, this is the technical university - the other universities use either a custom solution (main university), or some ... I think it is written in perl, some ugly stuff that I hate... I can do a screenshot of that as well
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<apophis> shevy, is rails ONLY back-end developing?/
<omosoj> is that all german?
<omosoj> apophis, no.
<apophis> aight thanks
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<omosoj> aphophis, but i think it's popular to use other libraries in javascript to make the front end more visually appealing and quicker
<shevy> ok here is the other university http://i.imgur.com/01kK5wJ.png - I hate this so much
<shevy> ignore the black mplayer box, one day I must find out why it overlays onto a screenshot :P
<omosoj> heh
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<shevy> I think that latter one is written in perl
<shevy> development started in 1998 haha
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<omosoj> is there a recognized best thing to read to understand the ruby core?
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<shevy> dunno
<shevy> many things you'll never need
<shevy> some stuff like yaml you will probably need often
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<shevy> you could browse through that http://ruby-doc.org/stdlib-1.9.3/libdoc/
<omosoj> yeah i'm browsing that now
<shevy> I mean there are things I never used myself
<shevy> like delegate/
<omosoj> seems like more of a reference than an explanation
<shevy> cool I count 105 entries/ there
<shevy> omosoj well each module has a short header section
<shevy> but it is mostly API docu
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<shevy> you can try to look at the pickaxe reference, it has in its last part a documentation of the ruby stuff
<omosoj> havenwood, i was waiting around to see you. i saw this yt vid last night on OOP, super interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWIe9E4SWQo
<omosoj> shevy, the class module isn't very helpful, heh
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<omosoj> k, gonna try to understand ch 5 of ruby under a microscope.
<shevy> well you'll normally need to only look things up once there
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<Tuxero> hi
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<AlexRussia> who here told me about what is miniruby?
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<AlexRussia> i just want to say, it's not too much crazy idea.
<AlexRussia> f.e. rust need llvm rust compiler(if i am right) to compile itself even if we already have rust :/
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<shevy> miniruby is part of ruby
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<AlexRussia> shevy: in some way llvm-rust too part of rust ;)
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<pontiki> shevy did it
<shevy> I am guilty
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<omosoj> are most OO languages written in C?
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<shevy> omosoj yes
<shevy> perl php ruby python lua
<omosoj> k cool
<shevy> nimrod
<shevy> well it depends on the definition of what exactly is OO
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<shevy> if I rename a .rb file into a file without file ending
<shevy> can I still load it?
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<omosoj> i've tried and failed
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<omosoj> iirc
<shevy> yeah I am failing right now as well, at require time
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<rpag> shevy, 'load' should do it without a .rb extension
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<shevy> damn
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<rpag> seems easier to just add .rb to the file :)
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<zlude> Hello friend, i see in some place something like that message <<-TEXT text here TEXT to be a container with your text/string. But i really don't remember the syntax, someone can help me?
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<centrx> zlude, It's called a "here document" or "heredoc"
<zlude> yes heredoc
<zlude> thank you!
<zlude> haha
<centrx> zlude, There are a few different variations on it
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<zlude> <centrx>
<zlude> centrx, how can i ident code without space strings on output?
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<centrx> What does that mean
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<zlude> centrx, when i puts my heredoc var its appears with a prefix spacer on output, if i remove code indentation it not happens. how can i puts a heredoc without its prefix space on output? im sorry for bad english.
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<shevy> no
<shevy> put your heredoc example on a pastie zlude
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<shevy> <<-eos
<shevy> <<eos
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<crome> the <<- thing is so weird I have to google it up every time I use it
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<volty> open a quick ref doc of yours
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<volty> count the front-end space in the first line, then remove that amount from the rest of the lines
<rpag> <<-STR.each_line.map(&:strip).join text STR could be one way
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<omosoj> BasicObject is an instance of Class?
<volty> >> BasicObject.class
<eval-in_> volty => Class (https://eval.in/204758)
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<omosoj> .class returns the class of which its an instance
<omosoj> .superclass returns the class of the class of which its an instance
<omosoj> is that right?
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<omosoj> or can superclass only be called on classes?
<waxjar> superclass is like the parent
<omosoj> so there are no superclasses of instances, only of classes, right?
<volty> descending
<waxjar> >> Object.superclass
<eval-in_> waxjar => BasicObject (https://eval.in/204759)
<volty> >> BasicObject.ancestors
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<eval-in_> volty => [BasicObject] (https://eval.in/204760)
<waxjar> a superclass is just a regular class
<waxjar> just a synonym for parent class
<volty> >> String.ancestors
<eval-in_> volty => [String, Comparable, Object, Kernel, BasicObject] (https://eval.in/204761)
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<omosoj> ah .ancestors is cool
<crome> note that included modules are also in the inheritance chain
<crome> like Comparable over there
<omosoj> i see
<omosoj> basically, my question is is Module an instance of Class?
<crome> which is probably one of the most confusing thing in ruby
<crome> things*
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<omosoj> crome, why is that confusing?
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<volty> try with your irb. if you can get the class of everything ....
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<volty> >> [BasicObject.class, Module.class, Class.class]
<eval-in_> volty => [Class, Class, Class] (https://eval.in/204762)
<omosoj> volty, i understand that. but my question above is whether .class tells you if something is an instance of the class that's returned. is that a true statement?
<volty> >> "ciao".class
<eval-in_> volty => String (https://eval.in/204763)
<omosoj> k
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<waxjar> everything* is an object! :D
<crome> when you inherit and include things can get dirty
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<omosoj> so Class is an instance of Class, and also inherits from Module. is that accurate?
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<waxjar> yep
<volty> >> Class.ancestors - Module.ancestors
<eval-in_> volty => [Class] (https://eval.in/204764)
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<crome> but a Module is also an instance of Class :)
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<crome> I mean it inherits Class
<volty> no
<omosoj> crome, heh, i'm trying to sort out the difference between inheritance and being an instance of too
<volty> >> [Class.superclass, Module.superclass]
<eval-in_> volty => [Module, Object] (https://eval.in/204765)
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<omosoj> Module is an instance of Class
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<volty> and now stop thinking about what they are, start implementing thinking at what they are for
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<volty> (imho)
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<omosoj> how do i do that?
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<volty> thinking ? :)
<_cake> ^^^
<crome> also by actually coding something
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<_cake> that too
<volty> shevy: how's going the excavating in your old code ? :)
<_cake> who is __main__
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<volty> @ omosoj, do not feel discouraged, we are here the answer questions, esoteric ones, and especially practical ones :)
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<volty> s/the/to/
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<omosoj> volty, i'm not discouraged, lol. but some people are better fits for the teaching/learning relationships.
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<volty> yes, in our brave new world of students that give votes to teachers .... :)
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<volty> as for the better, you can judge after your learn (too much hot air around ... )
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<omosoj> :) learning above everything
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<volty> so, I need to create html from my source files, with lexing and crossreferencing ...
<volty> 1) if there is already something like that (just lex and reference)
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<volty> 2) which xml-building engine should I use (the most simple) ?
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<volty> omosoj, imho, one of the errors of the beginners is the one of thinking about classes & modules at the same time
<volty> a beginner should just make classes and solve the problem, even by the brute force
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<volty> then latter, when need arises , he can strip out some specific code, out of that class, and put it in a module
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<omosoj> hmm, i've made many programs, probably none too complicated, but i have a good grasp of how to do things. what i'm trying to learn now...
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<omosoj> is more deep stuff.. like how ruby actually interacts with the hardware. a part of learning this is learning the ruby core, which is my focus right now
<omosoj> the interrelation of basicobject, object, class and module is confusing and i'm just trying to sort it out in my mind.
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<omosoj> i'm not learning this stuff for direct practical value really. just trying to understand ruby as a whole, how oop works, how to improve my oo design, what makes oo different than other paradigms, etc
<volty> i see ... If I were you I would go for a nice book about language design
<omosoj> right now i'm reading ruby under a microscope, chapter 5 on objects and classes.
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<omosoj> i'd love to delve into a book on language design but... wow... that would be pretty hefty
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<omosoj> i'm trying to glean enough information from you guys with my basic questions to avoid it, hehehe
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<omosoj> but... are there any books that you would recommend? i'm reading a few now but i'm always looking for classics that really clarify things
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<volty> not at the moment, I am too fuzzy now (that's why I came here :) )
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<omosoj> i'm reading a book now called code that starts from relays and builds up to operating systems and applications. it's awesome :))
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<volty> maybe I am reading the same
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<volty> «The Elements of Computing Systems: Building a Modern Computer from First Principles»
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<omosoj> i think they are very similar. the one i'm reading, code, actually has a lot of unnecessary information. maybe i'll check this book out to see if i like it better
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<volty> i find it quite essential, almost no rhetorics
<havenwood> omosoj: Ruby abstracts you away from those details. Helps you get stuff done. Seems you're interested in Ruby implementation details.
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<volty> havenwood: and I am desperately trying to discourage him :)
<omosoj> volty, awesome, i like that
<omosoj> heh
<havenwood> omosoj: Learn Ruby not Assembly!
<havenwood> Or Ruby and Assembly. But Ruby. :P
<omosoj> but i want to be well-rounded!
<havenwood> omosoj: Unix system calls: http://www.di.uevora.pt/~lmr/syscalls.html
<omosoj> :p
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<havenwood> omosoj: For JRuby, JVM.
<havenwood> omosoj: Learn LLVM for Rubinius.
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<havenwood> omosoj: A neat thing about Ruby is it is implemented many ways and works on many systems.
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<volty> anyway, for the exercise of neurons, one can read the ruby code, but imho much better is to try to think (and just think, abstractly) how it could be implemented in c++
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<havenwood> omosoj: The language specification is independent of those details.
<omosoj> cool
<havenwood> omosoj: So learn Ruby and you'll be learning a common interface to these systems.
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<volty> yes, but he wants to catch up the miracle of fitting it altogether
<volty> omosoj: c++ experience ?
<havenwood> omosoj: I'd advice studying Ruby core then stdlib.
<volty> (or java)
<havenwood> omosoj: It's a goldmine.
<omosoj> volty, no ruby is my first language
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<omosoj> havenwood, that sounds good. the stdlib sounds fun.
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