apeiros changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 2.1.3; 2.0.0-p576; 1.9.3-p545: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com || this channel is logged at http://irclog.whitequark.org, other public logging is prohibited
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<volty> [" {fn \"/home/volty/prog/ruby/qt_backup.rb\"}"]
<volty> -:1: UTF-7 is not ASCII compatible (ArgumentError)
<volty> from /home/volty/.rbenv/versions/2.1.3/lib/ruby/2.1.0/ripper/lexer.rb:57:in `parse'
<epitron> WHAT
<epitron> two UTF-7 errors in one day?
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<volty> was going down when trying to give it #encoding:utf-7
<epitron> ah
<volty> (in editor) and I was going crazy about why
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<epitron> hahah
<volty> now I see that I installed a lexer but forgot about it
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<epitron> man, writing code in UTF-7 would be weird.. it uses + and - as delimiters
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<epitron> i hope you don't like math!
<epitron> or concatenation!
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<volty> yes :) -- i'am not that weird, just trying to switch between encodings
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<towski> I must be missing some major encoding stuff because now I get uninitialized constant Encoding::UTF_8
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<towski> although it shows up in Encoding.list
<towski> maybe I can find and assign it or something
<towski> oh it's UTF-8 not UTF_8
<towski> shrug I can just UTF-8 to UTF_*
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<timmmaaaayyy> if i use rvm.....root cannot use ruby. whats the proper way to work around this? modify roots path so it can use my ruby? or install rvm for root? or something completely different?
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<wsmoak> timmmaaaayyy: possibly… run the ruby program as a different user? depends on what you need … I rarely do anything with root directly, just individual commands with sudo.
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<wallerdev> the nice thing about just using root is you dont have to think about when to use sudo or not
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<zenspider> yet another reason why I think rvm is too clevar
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<mastr_bennett[x]> zenspider: what's that?
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<eam> whatever happened to just setting $PATH
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<insaneinside> zenspider: is it true (as i'm afraid it is) that minitest extends ::Object with MiniTest::Expectations? (wallerdev said you were the one to ask.)
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<volty> i don't know rvm, but i can hardly believe it has to do with rvm's caution // how could rvm hide ruby from root ?
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<banisterfiend> insaneinside stick a `binding.pry` in your test suite and ask it yourself :)
<insaneinside> When choosing a test framework to start with, it's a bit of a put-off to see that the test framework is changing the thing under test..
<insaneinside> banisterfiend:
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<insaneinside> er, derp. hmm.. google time.
<tobago> How to prove, the thread is running properly? stdin, stdout, stderr, wait_thr = Open3.popen3('ping www.google.com')
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<insaneinside> tobago: wait_thr.alive?
<tobago> insaneinside, well. and how to catch the stdout stream also?
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<tobago> only inside the block way?
<insaneinside> see IO#read
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<_1_begin> hi
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* insaneinside loves getting hi
<tobago> insaneinside, IO.read puts nothing (and looks like blocked, because it does not return to IRB shell)
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<tobago> insaneinside, I expected several 64 bytes from ea-in-f106.1e100.net (74.125.136.106): icmp_seq=1 ttl=45 time=29.0 ms
<insaneinside> tobago: well, yes. That's because `ping` runs forever with those parameters
<insaneinside> tobago: if you're looking to check net connectivity, just try a simple connect or something
<tobago> insaneinside, ah o.k. so when I kill the process, the output stream ist printed?
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<volty> trying setting flush on streams
<volty> try
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<tobago> insaneinside, o.k. thank you. though it was just that I played the first time with Open3#popen3 and wanted to understand it in detail. o.k. gotcha. I play with another command to check the output stream.
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<insaneinside> ahh, okay
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<volty> STDOUT.sync
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<volty> ping -c 50
<volty> (or)
<volty> ops STDOUT.sync = true
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<volty> look guys, it's so nice here, with practical ppl
* insaneinside doesn't follow.
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<volty> STDOUT.sync = true --- > STDOUT flushes as soon as some data goes there (does not wait to fill the whole buffer)
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<volty> or ping -c 10 (only ten pings)
<insaneinside> ehh, no i meant the practical people thing
* insaneinside is in no way practical.
<volty> ah, i was before in the chan full of intelligent idiots, those talking about purity & math & categories & lazy & strict etc etc.
<volty> less they know more they talk about
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<volty> and i was arguing // i sometimes do it for fun but this time i got really angry and disappointed
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<insaneinside> heh. i graduated from college with a B.S. in Physics in March... but i'm *way* better at programming.
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<volty> yes, never get too close to haskellers, if you ever try to learn something do it by yourself only
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* insaneinside salutes volty.
<volty> :)
<insaneinside> Well-said, sir.
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<volty> pompous pure time-losers, their libs are nightmare, and it isn't fault of the language only (nice, intriguing), building idiot arrow operators around, just for the sake of extracting xml ...
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<volty> and i stop here, because too late, out of topic, out of common sense
<volty> gn :)
<insaneinside> heh, night
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<shevy> insaneinside what language did you use for physicx? python?
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<shevy> I think a huge reason why ruby does not have great scientific libraries is because there simply aren't that many people doing those kind of things altogether, and most who do tend to e. g. be python guys who also often know C++
<insaneinside> shevy: that's a popular one. The astronomy folks (same roof) used IDL and Python for image-processing
<shevy> hmm IDL? libidl?
<insaneinside> shevy: well, also AFAIK Ruby has no native support for double-precision floating-point
<insaneinside> no, the IDL language
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<eam> insaneinside: uh, what do you call 1.0 + 1.0 ?
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<insaneinside> eam: is this about IC circuits and ATM machines?
<insaneinside> eam: two. Why?
<eam> double-precision floating-point
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<eam> 2.0, fwiw
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* insaneinside is confused, but that's okay.
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<eam> you said ruby didn't have native support?
<insaneinside> I thought it only had single-precision (i.e., `float`)
<eam> Floats are doubles
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<eam> there isn't any single or quad though
<insaneinside> that's odd, what you're telling me agrees with <http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-2.1.3/Float.html>. :P
<insaneinside> no idea where i got that idea, then
<havenwood> >> 0.1r + 0.2r
<eval-in_> havenwood => (3/10) (https://eval.in/203865)
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<eam> it was a pretty relevant factoid back before 64bit ints were common
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<insaneinside> eam: what was?
<eam> that the float type was double
<insaneinside> oh, right.
<eam> actually I'm not entirely sure ruby did this, but Perl at least faked integers up to 2**53
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<eam> havenwood: those pesky base 2 fractions
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<havenwood> eam: aye
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<omosoj> can someone explain the different programming paradigms?
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<insaneinside> omosoj: i'd answer if i knew. But that's a BIG question -- try breaking it down a little more. ;)
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<eam> the short answer is "yes"
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<insaneinside> ^^ what he said.
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<insaneinside> omosoj: e.g. explain what you want to know about them ("why is SUBJECT so cool?") rather than "tell me SUBJECT".
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<omosoj> :)
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<omosoj> i'm trying to understand how ruby interacts with hardware
<eam> what do you mean by hardware?
<omosoj> and the different levels of language abstraction
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<omosoj> whatever all this stuff runs on
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<insaneinside> omosoj: Turtles. All the way down.
<omosoj> lol
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<insaneinside> Are you just starting to program?
<eam> omosoj: the operating system deals with hardware and provides higher level abstractions to programs like ruby
<eam> such as files in a filesystem (instead of bytes on a hard drive)
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<eam> so the answer really is "it doesn't interact with the hardware. The operating system does"
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<insaneinside> for example, in the chart at <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_space#Userland>, you're sitting up in the row labeled "User applications".
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<omosoj> i don't get how a computer does anything
<omosoj> heh
<omosoj> it's so abstract, i know.
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<omosoj> i don't have an ee or cs background so i'm just trying to conceptualize how software/hardware work together
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<sklik> imagine you're an electron flowing through a semiconductor (magic schoolbus style)
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<eam> omosoj: it really depends on the kind of hardware. For example software is just data that the processor reads and processes/executes
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<eam> everything else is built on this. For example software might have instructions to tell the CPU to put data in memory. Or to send a signal to a particular device like a mouse
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<omosoj> sklik, heh, that's exactly what i want
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<omosoj> but what reads the instructions?
<eam> the CPU
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<eam> software like /usr/bin/ruby is just a set of CPU instructions
<insaneinside> At the physical level, it really *is* like a bunch of machinery -- only with spooky action-at-a-distance thanks to electrostatic forces. (Trust me I'm a Physicist. ;)
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<eam> in ruby's case, it happens to be a collection of CPU instructions which know how to read ruby source code and generate even *more* CPU instructions
<insaneinside> And that code is like the punchcards my father learned to program with.
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<omosoj> i'm reading a book now called code that goes into how processors are many gates. don't understand it fully just trying to flesh it out
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<eam> we call those collections of CPU instructions "compilers" (like C) when they translate human readable code to machine code. And we call them "interpreters" (like ruby) when they do it on the fly
<omosoj> eam, okay, that makes sense
<sklik> to go even deeper: at the heart of it are semiconducting elements; the physical "stuff" that makes up integrated circuits. These are basically a series of switches in various configurations that allow electrons to flow through them, depending on where certain currents/voltages exist
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<omosoj> sklik, yeah... so machine code works on those switches, right?
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<eam> the machine code is much higher level
<omosoj> whoa, what's between them and the physical stuff
<omosoj> ?
<sklik> waht eam said. machine code talks in the language that the cpu can understand. shift these bits here, add these bits together, etc.
<eam> the switches are all collected into structures that provide higher level functions like "registers" (a place to remember a value) and units which can process "opcodes" or machine instructions that act on registers
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<insaneinside> a la the punch card, which has holes (bits) in it to interact with the "mechanical" bits of the registers.
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<eam> omosoj: it's probably easiest to start reasoning about very simple single-purpose computer circuits that can perform boolean operations
<omosoj> it's crazy that this has been invented
<eam> using this you can build higher level functions such as adding numbers together
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<eam> and using that, you can build even higher level functions like multiplication, division
<omosoj> ah, cool, sklik
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<eam> those higher level combinations of functions are the interfaces the CPU provides. The "opcodes"
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<omosoj> lol awesome
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<red_menace> if you want to see how the chips work, check out http://www.visual6502.org/JSSim/index.html
<sklik> the syllabus is pretty much goes level-by-level up the abstraction ladder
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<eam> the development of abstractions on top of abstractions has taken place over many decades. This wasn't just all invented at once
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<omosoj> yeah sounds like a ton of work
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<omosoj> red_menace, wow
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<omosoj> they need a legend on this thing
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<red_menace> basicaly the bits in the CPU operational codes turn on and off all kinds of switch logic that determine what function the opcode actually performs (add, move, etc). these days you don't normally deal with those kinds of things, as they have been abstracted away by the manufacturer, and modern operating systems don't let you directly access the hardware anyway
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<omosoj> what is on the right? those rows.
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<omosoj> why does the yellow go back instead of continuing
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<red_menace> the list on the right is a list of the hex codes in memory (the program) - it doesn't continue because the sample program doesn;t really do much of anything
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<omosoj> man i've learned so much in the last half hour
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<sklik> all aboard! beep beep, honk honk.
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<Nilium> Beep honk hork.
* Nilium is a terrible drinker.
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<eam> you must be dehydrated
<Nilium> Probably.
<Nilium> Three things of coffee (not all cups, oddly) have probably ensured I'm close to mummification.
<Nilium> Also, cup of beer is a weird phrase, whereas mug of beer is completely normal. Glass of coffee is strange, but not cup of coffee.
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<Nilium> Mug of coffee is fine though because it's a special drink.
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<insaneinside> Mug of you is fine because the police were asking about ... nevermind.
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<Nilium> Doubtful.
<Nilium> It says nothing good about me that drinking doesn't affect my typing.
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<omosoj> this syllabus is awesome, sklik. i just learned about nand gates
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<sklik> omosoj glad you're enjoying it
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<Nilium> Also, it seems like the only ruby-related emails I get these days, if they aren't recruiting for rails jobs (which doesn't apply to me) are about using OpenGL in Ruby
<Nilium> 'Cause I guess I'm the only person still doing that
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<Nilium> .. Wrong channel, but actually worked out in this case.
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<omosoj> thanks for the help everyone. gnite
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<MrPepper> Santa is real.
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<Tony`> hi,all,It's the first time I've been here
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<Tony`> can you see me?
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<shevy> lol
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<vimer> !books
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<vimer_> Hi all. I have prior knowledge of ruby weebit but now I have to work with rubyonrails so for quick review which book would you recommend?
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<vimer_> Thanks!
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<shevy> hey vimer_
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<shevy> the rails guys are on #rubyonrails
<shevy> many people here in #ruby don't use rails
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<vimer_> shevy: yeah sure, but I wanted to look into *ruby* as well
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<vimer_> as won't be able to use rails if I don't know ruby well
<vimer_> I hope you understand what am I trying to say
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<j75> vimer_ check out sinatra
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<vimer_> j75: isn't sintra a ruby gem?
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<j75> yes it is
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<sanav> i start learning OOP in ruby .During this, i meet mixin and inheritence .Can anyone tell me which one is better to use ? I read lots of articles on mixin and inheritence .They all says "use mixin over inheritence"
<suy> sanav: then you've read the wrong ones. Are different features for different ways to solve a problem. One may be more used on average, but nothing else.
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<sanav> suy : I'm asking in the general way .It means i have to prefer inheritence over mixin (general case , as a norm )
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<Hanmac> sanav: for sample Enumerable or Comparable module would not work so nicely if it would be made with inheritence than mixin
<pontiki> it's not a preference for one over the other. it's using the right tool for the right job, each time
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<pontiki> both are useful
<sanav> i just watched sandi matz video at rubyconf .She said we should prefer inheritence over mixin (as a norm) . Correct me if i'm wrong
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<Hanmac> hm an interesting point is String in the old 1.8 days ... because its both Enumerable and Comparable so it can not be done with inheritence
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<sanav> ok
<sanav> i think i should do some more research before asking stupid question . BTW , Thanks Hanmac
<Hanmac> sanav: there are also more options than inheritence and mixin, there is also *try to remember the right name* instead of writing a inherited class of class A, you make class B using an object of class A as property (i think it was some kind of delegate)
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<sanav> Hanmac: Thanks for your advise . :) Take care bro
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<pontiki> “Now that you’ve seen examples of inheritance and composition you can begin to think about when to use them. The general rule is that, faced with a problem that composition can solve, you should be biased towards doing so. If you cannot explicitly defend inheritance as a better solution, use composition. Composition contains far fewer built-in dependencies than inheritance; it is very often
<pontiki> the best choice.
<pontiki> Inheritance is a better solution when its use provides high rewards for low risk. This section examines the costs and benefits of inheritance versus composition and provides guidelines for choosing the best relationship.
<pontiki> Excerpt From: Metz, Sandi. “Practical Object-Oriented Design in Ruby: An Agile Primer (Addison-Wesley Professional Ruby Series).” iBooks. https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewBook?id=038BE4A901A3E1659EA914B97D73CA82
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<Hanmac> pontiki: nice, but you where to late ...
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<pontiki> oh?
<pontiki> they left?
<Hanmac> yeah, a few seconds before you did post
<suy> sanav did, but not the rest :)
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<pontiki> downside of having joins/parts/quits turned off :/ upside: conversations become followable :]
<suy> pontiki: thanks for the quote, I'm beginning as well, and is more or less what I've been reading. But useful to read it again.
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<Hanmac> hihi good that my pc has private logging ;P so i can review what others did tell me
<insaneinside> just today I wrote a cute little module that defines a use_method(module, symbol) method for selective use of mixin methods... metaprogramming is fun.
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<Hanmac> its specially more fun if you add xml parsing and xml generating into the mixin modules too ... like including Module A into class B does add a new section into the xml output of an object of class B
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* pontiki hums
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<gregf_> sanav: inheritance is like:
<gregf_> >> class A; attr_accessor :a; def initialize a;@a = a;end; def toString; return self.a;end;end;class B < A; attr_accessor :b; def initialize a,b; super(a); @b = b;end; def toString; return super().to_s + "-" + self.b.to_s;end; end;b = B.new(10,20);puts b.toString();
<eval-in_> gregf_ => 10-20 ... (https://eval.in/204016)
<gregf_> composition/delegation is like :
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<gregf_> *has to write it*
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<gregf_> >> class A; attr_accessor :a; def initialize a;@a = a;end; def toString; return self.a;end;end;class B; attr_accessor :b, :a; def initialize a,b;@a = a; @b = b;end; def toString; return @a.a.to_s + "-" + self.b.to_s;end; end;b = B.new(A.new(10),20);puts b.toString();
<eval-in_> gregf_ => 10-20 ... (https://eval.in/204017)
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<gregf_> and mixin is like:
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<gregf_> er well you get it, just make A a module and include it :/
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<gregf_> btw, is there a concept of forcing the class consuming the mixin to implement mandatory methods?
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<canton7> well if it doesn't, you'll get runtime problems
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<canton7> like in most of ruby, and most dynamically-typed languages, shit happens at runtime not compile-time
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<gregf_> something like: module Client; requires "test"; end; class MyClass; include Client; def test; puts "Hiya"; end; end
<gregf_> ah - ok
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<gregf_> canton7: what i meant was something like this :/
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<gregf_> >>module Client; def send; raise NotImplementedError,"TBI";end; def parse; puts "now parsing response";end;end; class HTTP; include Client; def send; puts "Now Making HTTP request"; end;end;http = HTTP.new();http.send();
<eval-in_> gregf_ => Now Making HTTP request ... (https://eval.in/204022)
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<canton7> the normal approach is just to not define 'send'
<canton7> also remember that 'send' is a built-in method on classes :P
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<gregf_> aah :/, ok. yeah - fair enough
<gregf_> cool, thanks
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<Hanmac> gregf_ that posts are interesting, but the user you did respond "sanav" is offline since hours ...
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<gregf_> Hanmac: yeah, indeed :/. but somebody else could get some help :/. its an interesting discussion, that
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<Hanmac> canton7: hm no send is build-in defined on all Objects (or more specified its defined in Kernel which is included in Object, so nearly all objects does have it, except the ones inherited from BasicObject, but they have __send__)
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<Hanmac> gregf_ & canton7 about module and "mandatory methods" look at Enumerable with #each and Comparable with #<=> both does need them but do not extra error than the NoMethodError from the call
<canton7> yeah I was being a bit loose with the nomenclature :P
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<shevy> k guys
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<shevy> the time of the day has come once again
<shevy> down with the pants!
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<pontiki> no
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* Hanmac is still in his sleeping cloths because he does work from home
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<shevy> ack
<shevy> home sex worker
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<Hanmac> shevy hm i think i will publish rwx as gem next monday in the version 0.0.1dev or something, even if the gem might be not finish or ready ;P
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<shevy> YES
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<arup_r> Guys is there any online podcast available on Rails ?
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<jhass> arup_r: didn't I teach you about crossposting already? ;)
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<arup_r> Yes.. I am sometime confused about my client..
<arup_r> :-)
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<arup_r> I forgot to see,, in which channel I am.. and press enter.. :p
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<jhass> yeah sure, so you manage to crosspost across 3 channels...
<arup_r> Exactly.. anyhow I saved myself not to post #vim
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<shevy> he asks rails questions here!!!
<jhass> shevy: no, not here. Everywhere
<deepy> burn the witch
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<shevy> smash his balls!
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<arup_r> Please DON'T
<arup_r> :p
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<arup_r> I will do post now here (jhass_channal_list - arup_r_channel_list) + arup_r_channel_list :p
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<arup_r> Opps! My math is so weak.. :-(
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<toretore> LOL ;D ;D ;D
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<arup_r> toretore: How are you?
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<arup_r> shevy: What about the climate in your place? Workable ?
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<Hanmac> workmad3: look what i found: http://pics.nase-bohren.de/moffat-bingo.jpg
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<Hanmac> shevy the reason why old mobile phones are sometimes better: http://pics.nase-bohren.de/3310-tear-gas-bullet.jpg
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<workmad3> Hanmac: hmm... looks like he's trying to hit every single one of those in every episode at the moment
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<shevy> arup_r well; it's mediterranean up to semi-cold; winter is coming soon
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<workmad3> Hanmac: classic :D
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<Hanmac> workmad3: i think NielGaiman should make more doctorWho episodes ... the two of them he made was awesome ...
<Hanmac> hm or let TimBurton make a DoctorWho episode and see what will happen XD
<workmad3> Hanmac: yeah... but before Moffat took over, the few episodes he'd written were awesome
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<luckyme> can I ask Ruby on Rails x RSpec question here?
<sevenseacat> its really not the right place.
<shevy> the cat has spoken
<luckyme> okay...
<shevy> you could formulate a rails question into a ruby question :>
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<insaneinside> hmmm... so. Why did they think Ruby looked like a train, anyway?
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<shevy> insaneinside I think it was more a marketing thingy
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<insaneinside> Yeah. Marketers don't get sense. (TraaaaaaaaaaainCaaaaaaaaase is for Jaaaaaavaaaaa!)
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<User458764> Hi , I search for sending email and be notified via an api of the success/failure of the mail?
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<shevy> User458764 I think there are some gems for that
<shevy> mail = Mail.new do
<shevy> from 'mikel@test.lindsaar.net'
<shevy> to 'you@test.lindsaar.net'
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<User458764> shevy ok I see it but I don't know if it returns a callback for success/error after sending a mail to a recipient
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<User458764> My use case is for example when address doesn't exists or mispelled
<shevy> I guess it must return a failure in this case
<shevy> let's try
<User458764> shevy ok I will
<shevy> man, that has shitloads of dependencies... :\
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<Hanmac> shevy oO doesn't mail only need mime-types gem?
<shevy> "ArgumentError: An SMTP To address is required to send a message. Set the message smtp_envelope_to, to, cc, or bcc address."
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<shevy> User458764, I think you can rescue ArgumentError in this case; perhaps it sends better errors
<shevy> Hanmac possibly, I was trying to use "rake" to install
<shevy> that shit then wants rspec
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<shevy> this dichotomy between rake and gem is awful
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<shevy> (for installing dependencies)
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<shevy> AND bundler on top of that
<Hanmac> shevy: hm rspec should only be a development dependiency
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<sevenseacat> i didnt even know rake could install gems
<sevenseacat> gem and bundler are starting to work closer together now
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<Hanmac> sevenseacat: hm rake is more for building the gem so that gem or bundler can install it
<sevenseacat> yeah thats what i thought
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<Hanmac> i for myself never used rspec, i prefer writing tests with test-unit
<sevenseacat> i <3 rspec
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<Hanmac> hm can you short explain me when rspec is better than test-unit?
<sevenseacat> i much prefer the rspec syntax (though expect annoys me)
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<mwlang> I’m trying to get a Rails 1.2 app running on Ruby 1.8.7 and want to change “require” so that it writes out to console each file that gets required when its called. I saw and did this before (long time ago), but can’t quite remember how to do it. Anyone know?
<mwlang> ah, nevermind, as soon as I ask, I figure it out.
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<Hanmac> mwlang: first: use #rubyonrails second: both rails1.2 and ruby1.8.7 are very to much outdated you should update to newer versions
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<mwlang> Hanmac: why rubyonrails? this is a ruby question. And, yeah, I know its old as dirt.
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<mwlang> and I find that #rubyonrails helps fine with actual rails-related questions, but not so often when we’re dealing with underlying ruby issues.
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<Hanmac> mwlang: alias and override the "require" method and then inside look at $LOADED_FEATURES
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<workmad3> mwlang: hey, I help with underlying ruby issues in #rubyonrails just fine :P
<mwlang> workmad3: I didn’t say ya didn’t. ;-)
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<mwlang> Hanmac: thanks. The missing ingredient for me was “module Kernel” wrap on redefining #require. I couldn’t remember where it was until precisely 20 seconds after asking here.
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<Hanmac> >> alias old_require require; def require(name);lf = $LOADED_FEATURES.dup;r = old_require(name);p $LOADED_FEATURES - lf;r;end; require "stringio"
<eval-in_> Hanmac => ["/execpad/interpreters/ruby-2.1.3/lib/ruby/2.1.0/i686-linux/stringio.so"] ... (https://eval.in/204079)
<Hanmac> alias old_require require; def require(name);lf = $LOADED_FEATURES.dup;r = old_require(name);p $LOADED_FEATURES - lf;r;end; require "stringio"
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<Hanmac> >> alias old_require require; def require(name);lf = $LOADED_FEATURES.dup;r = old_require(name);p $LOADED_FEATURES - lf;r;end; require "digest/md5"
<eval-in_> Hanmac => libcrypto.so.1.0.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory - /execpad/interpreters/ruby-2.1.3/lib/ruby/2.1.0/i686-linux/digest/md5.so (LoadError) ... (https://eval.in/204080)
<workmad3> Hanmac: that assumes that all requires are going to be done on whatever the top-level object is ;)
<Hanmac> charliesome: look "libcrypto.so.1.0.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory"
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<workmad3> Hanmac: older rails, the 'require' will be done inside the rails stack based on 'config.gem' directives :)
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<Hanmac> oh ok i dont care what rails does "inside"
<mwlang> I think I’ve at least discovered the root cause of my grief. rake tasks are loading “config/boot.rb” twice whereas script/server and script/console do not.
<mwlang> $LOADED_FEATURES is new to me, though. Thanks for mentioning that
<workmad3> Hanmac: still useful to consider how to catch all 'require' calls, not just the ones done at the top level ;)
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<Hanmac> >> $LOADED_FEATURES = []
<Hanmac> mwlang: $LOADED_FEATURES is also the array that does prevent require from loading a file twice, so while $LOADED_FEATURES itself is a read-only variable
<eval-in_> Hanmac => $LOADED_FEATURES is a read-only variable (NameError) ... (https://eval.in/204082)
<Hanmac> you could still clear it
<Hanmac> >> $LOADED_FEATURES.clear
<eval-in_> Hanmac => [] (https://eval.in/204083)
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<Hanmac> mwlang: but i HIGHLY dont recommend it to "fuck" with some of ruby internal things ... yes i did it once or twice but i mostly did know what i was doing
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<charliesome> Hanmac: interesting, maybe the eval box doesn't have openssl on it
<charliesome> let me check
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<mwlang> Hanmac: not so much fucking with ‘em as trying to track down why initialization/startup is different for rake tasks and server or console spin-ups so I can fix what’s broken. Such is the joy of inheriting a large app built on Rails 1.2.3 and still running in production on 1.8.6.
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<mwlang> we’re trying to bring them into the “light” by migrating them to RoR4, but gotta start by getting everything rolling in development sandboxes.
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<shevy> sounds boring
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<Hanmac> oO 1.8.6? the 80'es are calling, they want their ruby version back ;P
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<shevy> oh the 80es... with modern talking
<shevy> Hanmac loved them
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<mwlang> Hanmac: haha, I think you’re thinking of Perl.
<Hanmac> >< dont say their names, my ears are already bleeding again
<shevy> Hanmac I <3 Geronimo's Cadillac
<Hanmac> charliesome: i am more curios that "digest/md5.so" is there but the dependency libcrypto.so is not ...
<charliesome> not sure
<charliesome> i did compile 2.1.3 on a separate box because the eval box is too slow
<charliesome> maybe there's something broken in how i did that
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<Hanmac> hm yeah maybe or you just forgot to add the ssl/cypto stuff on the box
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<workmad3> charliesome: I think Hanmac may have it... libcrypto is from libssl in ubuntu, not part of the ruby build
<workmad3> charliesome: so it's most likely just a missing package install on the box ;)
<charliesome> libssl is already on there
<charliesome> it's probably different versions or something silly
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<Hanmac> hm i also think the box should be a 64it system instead a 32bit but thats my taste
<Hanmac> charliesome: hm what OS is the box?
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<Hanmac> hm because for me "libssl1.0.0:amd64: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libcrypto.so.1.0.0" libcrypto is part of libssl like workmad3 said
<workmad3> well, libssl-dev :)
<charliesome> Hanmac: 32 bit ubuntu 10.04
<charliesome> for reasons
<workmad3> charliesome: ah... doesn't 10.04 only have openssl 0.9.8?
<charliesome> yeah
<Hanmac> charliesome: hmm maybe its about the paths you did for the chroot or something? because libcrypto is in /lib and not /usr/lib ?
<charliesome> i compiled the ruby on another 10.04 box
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<workmad3> ok... so how did you update openssl on that box to get ruby 2.0 to compile? :)
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<charliesome> ah good point i wouldn't have
<charliesome> it would've just skipped over openssl
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<shevy> when I update openssl I usually recompile ruby altogether; I have had problems compiling new bindings just from ext/openssl
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<sanav> i'm interested in writing C extension for ruby .It will help me to understand ruby better . Can anyone guide me ? I read matz C' documentation on github but its outdated and poorly written .
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<mwlang> sanav: have a look at https://github.com/ffi/ffi
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<Hanmac> ffi might be interesting but in some cases not what you want
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<Hanmac> sanav: for writing in C/C++ try to read https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/trunk/README.EXT
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<mwlang> ah-ha — turns out that even though my project is Rails 1.2 on Ruby 1.8.7 looong before Bundler was born, rake will invoke bundler whereas script/server or script/console won’t.
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<Na_Klar> string[x] seems not to be binary-safe. how can I walk through non-ASCII strings byte-by-byte?
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<Mon_Ouie> String#each_byte
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<foucist> anyone know of any resources for setting up a secondary production server that shadows the first one (receives same requests), so output can be compared with actual production responses?
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<Na_Klar> Mon_Quie, will try this
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<Na_Klar> ^ Mon_Ouie
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<sanguisdex> so I am doing something wrong.
<sanguisdex> I am using both the OptionParser and the ARGV array for input. My ruby ignorant minds says that I need to loop through the ARGV array first and unset any variables that start with -. But my instinct tells me this has already been overcome and there is a method for it.
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<waxjar> sanguisdex: can you be a little clearer?
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<sanguisdex> sure
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<sanguisdex> I am using ARGV.first to get my primary input. but using OptionParser to create flags. but the flags show up as ARGV.first
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<sanguisdex> as the value of ARGV.first
<waxjar> how are you calling you program?
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<sanguisdex> program -Flags foo
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<sanguisdex> waxjar: its my first ruby script outside of chef recipe writing so I know its all sorts of wrong
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<waxjar> you can either use optionparser with parse! first, or simply use ARGV.last if it's always going to be the last element
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<waxjar> (parse! removes the options and their values iirc)
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<waxjar> from argv, that is
<sanguisdex> ahhh I am creating the var before running parse!
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<workmad3> sanguisdex: btw, I think OptionParser expects standard-ish arguments, so - is for single character flags and -- is for fuller names
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<workmad3> sanguisdex: so '-Flags' is likely to be '-F' with a value of 'lags' ;)
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<waxjar> i'd personally recommend using Slop, it's very nice to use
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<sanguisdex> workmad3: it does
<waxjar> and will handle -Flags as five different flags
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<sanguisdex> waxjar: workmad3 yeah sorry bad example -Flags was meant to just be an example of five flags
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<sanguisdex> doh
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<_br_> \win 86
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<_br_> ups, sorry
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<TeresaP> I am using gsub to use a regular expression to find a substring and replace just that substring with some new text. What’s the correct syntax for getting out “some original text that didn’t match /1 some other text that didn’t match”?
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<TeresaP> (Yes I read the online documentation, but I am failing to implement it correctly)
<_br_> TeresaP: I'm not exactly sure I understand what you want. Can you give an example?
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<TeresaP> Well this isn’t the final regex but here you go: http://rubular.com/r/VCaVbB2JQ4
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<TeresaP> I want to have the source string be something like: Given(/^the app is (?:closed|not running)$/) do
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<TeresaP> And then use gsub to replace it with Given(/^the app is (?:<span color='red'>closed|not running</span>)$/) do
<TeresaP> So I was doing: step_name.gsub(/(?:Given|When|Then|Before|After|AfterStep|Transform)\(.*\(\??:?(.*)\).*[)]/, "<span color='red’>\1</span>")
<waxjar> parsing regexpes with regexpes o.O
<TeresaP> But that gives me "<span color='red'></span> do"
<TeresaP> waxjar I’m editing a tool that documents the expressions ;)
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<TeresaP> If any of you know of a gem that can take a source string like this and spit out a color coded htmlized string that would also solve my problem...lol
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<TeresaP> (or rather a ruby class, I suppose)
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<TeresaP> _br_ did my example make sense?
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<waxjar> TeresaP: i think you need to make it a capture group
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<Hanmac> TeresaP: need more \
<Hanmac> try "<span color='red’>\\1</span>"
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<waxjar> ah, of course
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<TeresaP> wow that seems so simple
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<waxjar> >> '\1' == "\1"
<eval-in_> waxjar => false (https://eval.in/204207)
<waxjar> the docs use single quotes, where \ is escaped already
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<TeresaP> OK one more question. How come gsub is not simply replacing the \1 found string with the new one?
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<rnelson0> Hello. I've got a question about a snippet of code at http://pastebin.com/K7anS4xw
<Hanmac> TeresaP: gsub does replace '\1' not "\1"
<TeresaP> It’s actually just returning the "<span color='red'>closed|not running</span> do"
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<TeresaP> plus ‘do’ at the end, which is weird.
<rnelson0> the YAML file gets parsed, then later there's the poorly indented loop (sorry) that does something, not sure what, to get a list and source var from it. Can someone help explain line 18?
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<TeresaP> Hanmac I mean after I fixed the escaping issue
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<TeresaP> Sorry I’m going to have to run in a sec
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<shevy> anyone has some hints to avoid rewrites of medium to large sized projects in ruby?
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<waxjar> do it right the first time
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<rpag> "be a better programmer"
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<rpag> shevy, just joking of course but i find it hard to answer your Q because so much context is missing
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<waxjar> idk, probably just keeping everything small and reusable. which isn't easy.
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<Hanmac> shevy barney would say "new is always better" ... sometimes you need to make a full rewrite to make it better
<shevy> well the problem is
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<shevy> when at time X I start a project, I don't know at time Y how much it has changed in between over the years
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<shevy> so I don't know of many other available options... I could leave a project as it is, but those things tend to just suck or rot away leading to a point where I'd rather start a new project than maintain the existing one
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<Phrogz> shevy: "Abstraction is the key". If the interface to a module/class is working, it won't actually rot, no matter how much peeking inside may smell bad.
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<Phrogz> (I have no experience that tells me that this is a correct answer, however. :p)
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<rpag> if peeking inside sucks then maintaining it is gonna suck too
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<Hanmac> shevy like for me and rwx, i often do a total rewrite from the underlying, means the Ruby API does not change much, but the stuff below got different, because i added more GC protection, protection from segfaults and other stuff
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<volty> @ shevy: the only hint i can give you (for the sake of avoiding rewriting) is: throw away, erase, wipe it out
<Hanmac> volty: yeah, print it and then burn the paper ,P
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<volty> ahahah
<volty> much better
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<volty> no, shevy, hanmac is right: read it, try to understand what it does, how it does, think it out, reorganize (I avoid to use re-factor term because I am afraid of teachers that could wake up here),
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<workmad3> volty: you mean someone pedantic may say 'is that change behaviour-preserving?' ;)
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<shevy> volty yeah, throwing away is actually something that I started doing
<shevy> even when I eliminate some features too
<volty> rewriting is easier, productive, and pumps you with expertize
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<shevy> right now it pumps me with frustration and steals my time
<shevy> this fucking thing should have been finished a week ago already
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<volty> workmad3: yes, i remember i was quareling here with «design patterns» teachers, last night i was in the chan of intelligent idiots (#haskell) :)
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<volty> a nightmare - much worser than some pedantic that were around here // ppl that get lost in their theories and over-production of operators, lost, will never rich ruby richness of libs & frameworks
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<Hanmac> sometimes you are have a block in your gears and a total restart is sometimes better ... i think its the 4 or 5th time i did my new rpg_data ... currently i did to many plugins that i got caught in some funccall loop i didnt managed to resolve yet
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<volty> yes, rewriting is just that -- not going into original to just permute the lexems
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<pampuchy> hi, i cant compile my scss using foundation 5 , can anyone help me? <pampuchy> hi, does anyone here use sass/foundation? please help with my
<pampuchy> <phrik> Title: node.js - SCSS Foundation 5 on Archlinux not compiling - Stack
<pampuchy> Overflow (at stackoverflow.com)
<pampuchy> *** Corey84 (~Corey84@unaffiliated/corey84) has quit: Quit: reboot and config
<pampuchy> checks [19:10]
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<pampuchy> channel #archlinux
<pampuchy> <SquirrelCZECH_> hi folks
<pampuchy> *** holomorph (~holomorph@gateway/tor-sasl/holomorph) has quit: Quit:
<pampuchy> holomorph
<pampuchy> <SquirrelCZECH_> recently... when I connect to my openvpn server while on
<pampuchy> local network [19:11]
<pampuchy> <SquirrelCZECH_> the vpn starts to drop periodically without nything
<pampuchy> intresting in logs :
<pampuchy> <SquirrelCZECH_> :/
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<pampuchy> <SquirrelCZECH_> (both machines are running archlinux)
<pampuchy> ERC> /join #ruby
<Hanmac> pampuchy: wrong channel?
<pampuchy> hi i cannot compile my scss using foundation 5, can anyone pls help? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/26304610
<volty> an appeal before i go: qtbindings got very very stable, and, so, useful: ppl, CHECK IT, TRY IT! (even if you do gui with something else, or don't do it at all)
<pampuchy> isnt this ruby?
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<pampuchy> which channel should i ask in?
<Hanmac> pampuchy: no i mean your wall-of-text before
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<pampuchy> shit how did that happen? i am so sorry
<volty> he is sorry ....:)
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<volty> what was the irc command to query client ?
<volty> of a user
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<CharlieSu> Does Process.kill only work for processes started by the Ruby process or can I use it to send signals to any process on the OS?
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<volty> erc, with emacs, quite an unpolite irc client ! // bye
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<Hanmac> if someone is interested in my problem: game actor does have abilities, that are like levelable passive skills ... then there are features that does many different things ... like adding skills or adding states likes burning or frozen or modifyng ability levels ... but the problem is that states can add features as passive stuff from them (like state burning can increase the fire damage or something), but features can add states too ... do you
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<havenwood> CharlieSu: Any!
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<Eiam> hrm.. any idea why whenever I 'gem install redis' i don't actually get a redis binary? no redis-cli etc
<Eiam> so not sure how I'm supposed to kick redis to start or what the heck the gem even installed
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<existensil> installing the gem does not install redis server
<existensil> it installs the redis gem, which is a redis client
<momomomomo> redis is available at http://redis.io/download
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<momomomomo> if you’re using hoembrew, brew install redis
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<havenwood> Eiam: just an aside, but you can query if a gem is installed like so: gem query --installed redis
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<existensil> for debian unicies: apt-get install redis-server
<Eiam> existensil: oh ts the redist.set from inside ruby
<momomomomo> gem list redis
<havenwood> or: gem q -i redis
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<Eiam> yeah the redis gem is installed =p
<havenwood> Eiam: os/distro?
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<Eiam> got it sorted
<Eiam> brew install redis
<zwischenzug> i'm using pry to set breakpoints in code (with binding.pry), and also once i'm in a debugging session with "break /path/to/file:10". is it possible to make a list of breakpoints in a file and have pry read them when it gets run?
<Eiam> and its up now, redis-cli gets me into it
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<Eiam> this is what hapepns when im busy in angular
<Eiam> and no ruby
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<rpag> is gem query == gem list?
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<Eiam> thank you fine gents
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<rpag> zwischenzug, nah i dont think so, you'd probably want to parse the code
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<rpag> look for 'binding.pry' calls and take note of file/line num
<havenwood> rpag: nope, just a more obscure cmd
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<havenwood> rpag: the basis for the list command
<havenwood> and search
<rpag> huh
<zwischenzug> i don't really want to litter my source with binding.pry commands
<rpag> 'You should really use the list and search commands instead. This command is too hard to use.'
<havenwood> was about to say, just saw that
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<rpag> i found it as hard to use as 'gem list' but w/e :)
<havenwood> This command is too hard to use. You are insance.
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<havenwood> strange thing for a command to say
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<havenwood> doesn't seem harder than gem search or gem list to me, dunno
<rpag> ditto
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<rpag> 'gem search' seems to have the default i want: search remote.
<havenwood> afaik gem list doesn't have a way to specify *only* for the exact name
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<havenwood> at least `gem query` returns exact true/false and return status
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<havenwood> ohhh
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<rpag> gem query is bit funky for me
<havenwood> i assumed it did exact... which turns out to not be the case
<havenwood> so nevermind.
<havenwood> `gem search -i` too, i just assumed poorly
<havenwood> i swear a saw an issue ticket on this issue on rubygems, but i don't recall the resolution
<havenwood> if any
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<rpag> possible resolution: less commands that do almost exactly the same thing
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<havenwood> ha
<havenwood> and rather than warning that query is useless, don't expose it or make it useful
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<havenwood> there are some neat gem commands though
<pampuchy> sorry i was disconnected, did anyone answer my question?
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<havenwood> pampuchy: you lost me at npm :P
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<havenwood> pampuchy: Rails? #rubyonrails
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<havenwood> pampuchy: nope, i didn't see any answers
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<rpag> i didnt see a question :D
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<rpag> CharlieSu, Process.kill() works with any process
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<havenwood> Process.kill :KILL, 0
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<rpag> i wonder would that crash a system
<rpag> lets find out
* havenwood waves
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<rpag> well, it doesn't force a reboot
<momomomomo> fork bomb
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<rpag> kills the pry session though
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<pampuchy> thanks havenwood
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<havenwood> rpag: apparently: If pid is zero signal is sent to all processes whose group ID is equal to the group ID of the process.
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<havenwood> "If signal is negative (or starts with a minus sign), kills process groups instead of processes."
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<shevy> guys I can never remember
<shevy> is there any difference between:
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<shevy> require 'foo'; module Bla
<shevy> or
<shevy> module Bla; require 'foo'
<havenwood> shevy: the order
<shevy> hmm
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<shlant> anyone know if I can use regex with .include?
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<shlant> unless node.roles.include?(regex)
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<pipework> Try?
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<toretore> http://rdoc.info/stdlib/core/Array#include%3F-instance_method - then http://rdoc.info/stdlib/core/String#%3D%3D-instance_method
<centrx> shlant, #grep ?
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<havenwood> +1 grep
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<havenwood> not grep empty? maybe
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<shlant> so like
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<shlant> unless node.roles.grep 'infra'
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<havenwood> shlant: /infra/
<havenwood> shlant: regexp literal
<momomomomo> >> %w[hello there].grep /hello/
<eval-in_> momomomomo => ["hello"] (https://eval.in/204245)
<shlant> havenwood: ah yes, just realized that
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<shlant> thanks, will try!
<havenwood> >> not %w[hello there].grep(/hello/).empty?
<eval-in_> havenwood => true (https://eval.in/204248)
<havenwood> >> %w[hello there].any? { |w| w =~ /hello/ }
<eval-in_> havenwood => true (https://eval.in/204249)
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<momomomomo> >> %w[hello there hell].reduce([]) {|ary, w| ary << w if w =~ /hell/; ary}
<eval-in_> momomomomo => ["hello", "hell"] (https://eval.in/204254)
<momomomomo> sorry was nuking chef boyardee ~_~
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<rpag> sheepman, 'Bla' is defined for anything inside foo.rb, but there's no scope diff
<rpag> woops
<rpag> shevy ^
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<TeresaP> Hello again, folks
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<havenwood> hiya
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<havenwood> Friday! \o/
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<TeresaP> woot woot :)
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<TeresaP> I'm using step_name.gsub(/(?:Given|When|Then|Before|After|AfterStep|Transform)\(.*\(\??:?(.*)\).*[)]/, "<span color='red'>\\1</span>") for the input "Given(/^the viewer is (?:closed|not running)$/) do" and it is spitting out "<span color='red'>closed|not running</span> do" rather than "Given(/^the viewer is (?:<span color='red'>closed|not running</span>)$/) do". Any clue why?
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<havenwood> TeresaP: Seems you wanted: "\\0<span color='red'>\\1</span>"
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<havenwood> TeresaP: err, hem, not quite right either
<TeresaP> yeah...
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<TeresaP> I thought gsub was supposed to find a match and then replace the match inline
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<shevy> it can
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<TeresaP> Hey shevy
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<TeresaP> Anyone else have ideas? I am stumped :)
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<centrx> TeresaP, Are you trying to use regex to parse HTML?
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<TeresaP> centrx no I'm using regex to parse text with gherkin syntax and replace part of it with text that has html code in it
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<waxjar> TeresaP: i think i understand your problem, #gsub sees the whole thing as a pattern, not just the capture groups
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<TeresaP> oh man
<waxjar> >> "heeello".gsub /e(.)e/, "!"
<eval-in_> waxjar => "h!llo" (https://eval.in/204280)
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<crome> you put a boob between e's
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<waxjar> maybe you could use #match to get the captures, and use #gsub to replace the captures with <html>captures</html>
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* momomomomo wonders again why more women don’t hang out in #ruby
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<havenwood> hmmm
<momomomomo> “crome: you put a boob between e's"
<rpag> because programming sucks? :-P
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<TeresaP> ....
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<havenwood> TeresaP: trying to think how to do this. regexp hurt my brain!
<TeresaP> waxjar I think I might have to. I was really hoping gsub was able to handle more
<TeresaP> havenwood haha yeah they are pretty nasty
<TeresaP> I try to avoid them
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<momomomomo> TeresaP: !rubular
<helpa> TeresaP: http://rubular.com - Ruby regular expression test site
<waxjar> maybe negative lookaheads or whatever they're called could make it work with gsub, but it sounds like more trouble than it's worth
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<TeresaP> momomomomo ....... I use Rubular, thanks
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<crome> hehe
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<havenwood> TeresaP: I'll cheat:
<havenwood> >> "Given(/^the viewer is (?:closed|not running)$/) do".split('(?:').join("'(?:<span color='red'>").split(')$/)').join('</span>)$/)')
<eval-in_> havenwood => "Given(/^the viewer is '(?:<span color='red'>closed|not running</span>)$/) do" (https://eval.in/204283)
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<TeresaP> Yeah sadly that is not my only input :)
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<havenwood> TeresaP: Another input example?
<havenwood> thx
<rpag> there is a gherkin parser
<TeresaP> np
<TeresaP> rpag which one?
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<TeresaP> Yeah that's the source language I am parsing
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<havenwood> i'm not familiar enough with Gherkin to know the rules
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<rpag> oh, you want to edit the step definitions
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<TeresaP> rpag I am basically rewriting this: https://github.com/plaa/cuke-steps
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<TeresaP> And making it output color-coded Gherkin steps for our users to reference
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<TeresaP> If there is a way to combine the Gherkin parser + some other tool, I would rather do that :)
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<rpag> well you seem to be parsing ruby instead of html
<rpag> instead of gherkin*
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<rpag> a parser of some sort will probably make it easier/more reliable
<omosoj> i don't understand what object oriented language means
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<omosoj> are methods objects?
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<rpag> well there is the Method class
<TeresaP> It's the Gherkin syntax in Ruby
<rpag> you can ask for a method to be represented as an instance of that class
<havenwood> omosoj: yup
<TeresaP> But yes :)
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<omosoj> why was oo invented? what's wrong with whatever was before it?
<momomomomo> omosoj: wikipedia
<momomomomo> !wiki
<momomomomo> !wikipedia
<momomomomo> damn you helpa
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<omosoj> i'm on wikipedia now
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<rpag> omosoj, its suppose to be more maintainable and let you build abstractions
<omosoj> it makes the language more programmer friendly... how does it being oo do that?
<omosoj> rpag, abstraction = class?
<havenwood> omosoj: "I thought of objects being like biological cells and/or individual computers on a network, only able to communicate with messages..." ~Alan Kay
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<rpag> yeah, a class is a good example
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<rpag> i dont think oo is more programmer friendly, but ruby is definitely programmer friendly because its easy to learn
<omosoj> what other kinds are there?
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<omosoj> havenwood, hmmm, i like the metaphor but still don't ge tit
<omosoj> so ruby has all these classes of things. when you write your program you instantiate some of them depending on what you want to do
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<omosoj> and those objects interact with each other based on a bunch of other code that's lower level... is that right?
<havenwood> omosoj: OO is a somewhat nebulous term. I think what its creator had in mind is closer to how the internet works or the actor pattern than what we tend to think of as OO langs.
<havenwood> omosoj: Ruby's object model isn't particularly simple but it's elegant in some ways.
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<omosoj> did alan kay invent oo?
<workmad3> omosoj: yeah
<workmad3> and it was more on the idea of cellular automata than the fairly rigid class-based model of e.g. java and C++
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<rpag> and ruby?
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<workmad3> think more smalltalk and 'everything is a message', or yeah erlang with actors
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<workmad3> rpag: ruby is closer to smalltalk and message-passing IMO
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<workmad3> but it can still be a bit class-focussed at times, but not enough that I'd lump it into the same category as java :)
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<workmad3> erlang actors are probably the closest to cellular automata though... everything is an asynchronous signal between actors, even the response to another signal
<omosoj> is what i wrote above accurate? i'm trying to conceptualize all this stuff in the right way. ruby is essentially a set of classes of things you can instantiate, each of which have a behavior.
<workmad3> omosoj: I missed some of your original description, I'm afraid
<havenwood> omosoj: Take a look at this and see how much you understand if you study it: http://www.gliffy.com/go/publish/5152080
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<AR45> What version of ruby comes on Ubuntu?
<workmad3> omosoj: your description seems rather more static and classist than ruby really is, I suspect
<havenwood> AR45: Depends on the version of Ubuntu.
<workmad3> omosoj: seems more like a description of the class-model in java than ruby :)
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<AR45> havenwood, 14.04
<omosoj> workmad3, yeah.
<omosoj> havenwood, i'm familiar with that
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<havenwood> omosoj: So you understand that the Class of Module is Class whose Superclass is Module whose Superclass is Object?
<workmad3> I <3 ruby :D
<omosoj> heh, that part looked scary
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<workmad3> omosoj: to me, that part show's that ruby is fundamentally more object-focussed than class-focussed :)
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<AR45> workmad3, why?
<workmad3> omosoj: a class is an instance of Class, so classes are objects... Class is itself an instance of Object, so Class is an object...
<workmad3> everything resolves down to objects rather than classes
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<omosoj> i was gonna add modules to my summary, but i guess i gotta understand this complex relationship here
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<omosoj> workmad3, ahhh, i see
<workmad3> omosoj: in the kingdom of ruby, Object is king ;) (as long as you ignore BasicObject....)
<havenwood> AR45: not sure, i think `ruby` is 2.0 now? to get a full install you'll need to do `ruby-dev` package. there's a brightbox ppa for ruby2.1, but i don't *think* 2.1's in debian stable yet.
<workmad3> havenwood: there's the ruby-full package now I think
<havenwood> AR45: They do it like: ruby1.9-dev ruby2.0-dev ruby2.1-dev
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<havenwood> workmad3: how's that different that -dev? even more stuff?
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<workmad3> havenwood: I think it was introduced when there was still separation between e.g. ruby-openssl (and also ruby-openssl-dev) and the like
<workmad3> tbh, that separation could still be there too
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<havenwood> "For many good reasons, the Ruby programming language is split in many small different packages." ha!
<workmad3> but I believe that ruby-full is a way to get everything that can be classed as 'standard ruby' in one package
<havenwood> to confuse ALL THE PEOPLE
<workmad3> it is good reasons... for package dependency reasons
<workmad3> it's just really bad reasons for creating a development environment or setting up an arbitrary app outside of package management
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<omosoj> how does class both inherit from module and module inherit from class?
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<workmad3> omosoj: Class inherits from Module, Module is an instance of Class
<havenwood> modularity sure, but having the `ruby` package not be a practically working Ruby seems to be the source of ongoing confusion and needed explaination
<workmad3> omosoj: so it's not an inheritance loop
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<havenwood> workmad3: i don't disagree with the principle so much as the package naming
<workmad3> havenwood: :D
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<workmad3> havenwood: I guess it would have been better if 'ruby' was everything, then things like 'ruby-core' for the bare-bones, 'ruby-openssl', 'ruby-zlib', etc.
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<havenwood> that'd be lovely
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<workmad3> havenwood: you go and complain to the debian package maintainers then ;)
* havenwood scuttles away
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<Hanmac> for sample IF you install a ruby gem as debian package instead of a gem itself you dont need ruby-dev because its precompiled
<omosoj> so does class inherits methods and constants from module and add other stuff?
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<workmad3> omosoj: pretty much
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<havenwood> Hanmac: do people really use the package manager gems? i've never actually done that.
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<havenwood> Hanmac: it works and stuff? :O
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<omosoj> awesome, i might understand some of this now
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<Hanmac> havenwood: i didnt do it myself but yes it does work ... they updated all the packages recently ... it even has pry as debian package
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<havenwood> Hanmac: take that RubyGems! stab stab!
<havenwood> Hanmac: interesting...
<omosoj> why make everything inherit from object, instead of class or something?
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<omosoj> what does inheritance from object give?
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<omosoj> and is inheritance full inheritance? ie basically a clone with extra stuff
<shevy> object is a class
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<havenwood> omosoj: well Object mixes in Kernel whose Class is Module whose Superclass is Object
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<shevy> >> Object.class
<eval-in_> shevy => Class (https://eval.in/204296)
<shevy> >> Class.class
<eval-in_> shevy => Class (https://eval.in/204297)
<Hanmac> omosoj: hm i think you sound confused ... hm does it confuse you that Object is a class, but Class is an object? ;P
<shevy> we also have a class Class omosoj
<workmad3> >> Class.is_a? Object
<eval-in_> workmad3 => true (https://eval.in/204298)
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<havenwood> omosoj: Object's Superclass is BasicObject, at least in MRI.
<workmad3> >> Object.is_a? Class
<eval-in_> workmad3 => true (https://eval.in/204299)
<shevy> ur mom is a BasicObject!
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<havenwood> shevy: you don't inherit from your mom!
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<workmad3> havenwood: err... he probably does
<Hanmac> >> Module.is_a? Class
<eval-in_> Hanmac => true (https://eval.in/204301)
<workmad3> havenwood: that is kinda how genetics works :P
<Hanmac> >> Class.is_a? Module
<eval-in_> Hanmac => true (https://eval.in/204303)
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<shevy> workmad3 knows genetics
<shevy> and his 100 fathers do too!
<omosoj> "well Object mixes in Kernel whose Class is Module whose Superclass is Object
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<havenwood> workmad3: i'm accusing him of being a seahorse!
<omosoj> " rofl
<workmad3> shevy: the very best of us are born from swirlies :P
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<omosoj> Hanmac, i get it in a practical sense, but don't feel like i have a deep understanding
<workmad3> omosoj: it does get rather cyclical in ruby's foundations ;)
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<workmad3> omosoj: if you think about it... the main focus of an OO setup is that you are dealing with objects
<havenwood> workmad3: yeah, not a workable insult >.>
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<workmad3> omosoj: by making everything* an object, you make everything* stuff that can be played around with
<shevy> swinies?
<wsmoak> so… I can write stuff that works, but it’s basically java without the semicolons. who wants to do a ‘thinking in ruby’ exercise on my connect four game ?
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<workmad3> *everything in this case meaning 'almost everything' or 'everything with certain provisos'
<omosoj> workmad3, ah, is that what's unique about oo? you can modify all the objects?
<thoraxe> hmm.. so i am trying to work with net/ssh and need a "tty". I read that you could use request_pty but that is associated with a channel. if I use irb and do the following, I get an error
<havenwood> omosoj: For a nice example of how you might do namespaces, encapsulation and such nicely without OO you might take a look at Clojure.
<workmad3> omosoj: there are many approachs to 'OO' in general
<havenwood> remove one of those nices
<workmad3> omosoj: it gets rather philosophical and pedantic at times ;)
<thoraxe> ssh = Net::SSH.start......; channel = ssh.open_channel; channel.request_pty
<thoraxe> TypeError: no implicit conversion of nil into Integer
<omosoj> workmad3, heh, i majored in philosophy and i pretty much conceptualize all this stuff metaphysically
<havenwood> omosoj: i was a philosophy major too ;)
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<omosoj> :))
<n_blownapart> << English Lit.
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<workmad3> omosoj: I wouldn't dump OO into metaphysics... for starters, it's useful :P
<havenwood> and look how we all got jobs :P
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<omosoj> heh
<n_blownapart> that which does not kill me makes me stronger = false
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<workmad3> havenwood: speak for yourself, I'm a CS student :P
<omosoj> n_blownapart, heh, more intelligent but more weak. heh
<workmad3> (well, I was a CS student... I'm now a CS graduate)
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<workmad3> omosoj: how about something that leaves you in a permanent vegetative state? :P
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<havenwood> workmad3: going to keep going in academics or snatch up a job?
<workmad3> havenwood: I've been a full time developer for the past 7 years
<omosoj> workmad3, well, you'll never be wrong about anything for the rest of our life...
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<thoraxe> pretty much all other documentation seems to indicate that the request_pty stuff should "just work" like i'm doing it
<havenwood> workmad3: you have multiple lives!
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<havenwood> that run in parallel
<n_blownapart> omosoj: the legend is that nietzsche ended up in diapers.
<havenwood> the myth of syphilis
<havenwood> ahem, sisyphus
<n_blownapart> was that it havenwood ?
<workmad3> havenwood: yeah, I realised I was somewhat inaccurate when I said 'I'm a CS student'... should have said "I did CS"
<omosoj> i was focused on continental philosophy so i read a lot of nietzsche.
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<havenwood> n_blownapart: just making a bad camus joke
<n_blownapart> nice
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<n_blownapart> camus : man is an animal who spends his entire life trying to convince himself he is not absurd
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<Hanmac> workmad3: hm what does CS mean in that context? C# ?
<omosoj> i never read the stranger but i had a friend who was obsessed with camus
<havenwood> workmad3: got it, all makes sense now
<workmad3> Hanmac: computer science
<workmad3> n_blownapart: speak for yourself... I stopped caring if I was absurd long ago :P
<Hanmac> oh ok i got sometime confused about some shortcuts
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<n_blownapart> workmad3: funny !
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<Hanmac> hm i remember there was once someone in this channel that did something with genetic ... hm i recently have new questions about genetic
<havenwood> shellful angst
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<omosoj> "object mixes in kernel whose class is module whose superclass is object" oof.
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<havenwood> >> [Object.include?(Kernel), Kernel.class, Module.superclass]
<eval-in_> havenwood => [true, Module, Object] (https://eval.in/204308)
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<havenwood> >> Object.ancestors
<eval-in_> havenwood => [Object, Kernel, BasicObject] (https://eval.in/204309)
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<havenwood> omosoj: ^
* omosoj brain explodes.
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<omosoj> i need to spend some more time with this. sketch it out, etc. so complicated
<Hanmac> do you want more fun? add singleton_class into the mix
<workmad3> Hanmac: you're mean :P
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<havenwood> The proceeds of proceeds are no longer consider proceeds under the revised rules of proceeds.
<workmad3> omosoj: once you've drawn it out, it's actually a lot simpler ;)
<Hanmac> >> [Object.singleton_class, Object.singleton_class.singleton_class, Object.singleton_class.singleton_class.singleton_class]
<eval-in_> Hanmac => [#<Class:Object>, #<Class:#<Class:Object>>, #<Class:#<Class:#<Class:Object>>>] (https://eval.in/204310)
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<workmad3> omosoj: half the problem is that written English isn't exactly great at expressing the somewhat cyclical nature of ruby's foundations
<Hanmac> its turtles all the way down! ;P
<havenwood> >> Object.singleton_class.class.singleton_class.superclass.superclass.singleton_class
<eval-in_> havenwood => #<Class:#<Class:Object>> (https://eval.in/204311)
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<workmad3> Hanmac: more like a turtle standing on its own shell ;)
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<omosoj> are class and superclass inverses?
<Hanmac> workmad3: do you know what is more evil? putting konstants, modules or other classes into a singleton class of an object ;P
<workmad3> omosoj: no
<omosoj> nm, no
<workmad3> heh
* AR45 is hungry
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<Hanmac> workmad3: look where you can hide your classes ;P
<Hanmac> >> o = Object.new; class << o; class ABC;end; end; o.singleton_class::ABC
<eval-in_> Hanmac => #<Class:0x41e64e70>::ABC (https://eval.in/204313)
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<havenwood> and this is the value of OO... :O
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<workmad3> Hanmac: I think putting classes into closures is more evil ;)
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<workmad3> Hanmac: def foo; klass = Class.new; proc{ klass.new }; end
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<Hanmac> havenwood: like in the spiderman movies "with great power comes great responsibility"
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<omosoj> alright, i need to spend some time with these higher level parts of ruby, but...
<omosoj> what are classes? are they ruby code? i know there's C somewhere... where is that?
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<havenwood> omosoj: that's an implementation detail
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<n_blownapart> omosoj: there's a cool book called ruby under a microscope I've been checking out
<Morrolan> Hanmac: I see you're still fond of obscure Ruby, eh. D:
<Hanmac> workmad3: or a def inside a def?
<Hanmac> >> def func;def func;def func; "last"; end; "second";end; "first"; end; p func, func, func
<eval-in_> Hanmac => "first" ... (https://eval.in/204322)
<workmad3> omosoj: there's also the book 'Metaprogramming Ruby' that goes over a fair bit of this kind of stuff
<workmad3> it's a bit dated, but still fairly good
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<havenwood> omosoj: for example for Class: https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/trunk/class.c
<havenwood> omosoj: MRI^
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<omosoj> but you can include your own ruby code into Object or whatever... does it just translate that to C and put it into Object?
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<omosoj> i'm gonna check out those books, thank
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<workmad3> omosoj: that's where ruby under the microscope will help
<workmad3> omosoj: but short answer - no
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<havenwood> omosoj: here's mruby Class: https://github.com/mruby/mruby/blob/master/src/class.c
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<omosoj> heh, k. guess i'm not developing an intuitive sense yet :|
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<omosoj> the mruby file looks bigger than the regular ruby file.
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<omosoj> thanks so much for the help guys. i learned a ton. gotta go for now. ttyl
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<thoraxe> if i wanted to both .each across an array of strings and increment a counter, how would I do that?
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<thoraxe> i know you can do stuff like .each do |k, v| but i'm not sure how to do the before the each
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<thoraxe> i want to do something like ["foo","bar","baz"].each do |thing, position| and be able to reference the integer position in the array, if that makes any sense
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<Hanmac> thoraxe: each_with_index ?
<thoraxe> ooh duh
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<thoraxe> Hanmac++
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<Hanmac> hm what would be the nicest way to write a rake task for test-unit or rspec?
<jhass> thoraxe: since you described the solution you think you need and not your problem, it's impossible to tell, but you might also be interested in each_cons, each_slice or inject
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<jhass> Hanmac: rspec provides a helper for that, RSpec::RakeTask or something, let me look it up
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<Hanmac> jhass hm ok, and test-unit too?
<jhass> I don't use test-unit
<jhass> isn't it replaced by minitest?
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<workmad3> jhass: test-unit got rewritten as a framework on top of minitest
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<workmad3> jhass: rather than replaced
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<TeresaP> Anyone know of any code out there that can take a string with ruby code as an input and return a colorized html version of that string?
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<crome> you mean a syntax highlighter that produces html?
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<TeresaP> crome yeah basically
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<TeresaP> I was hoping pretty_print could do it, but it looks like it might only colorize on command line
<TeresaP> or awesome_print, rather
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<shevy> TeresaP coderay can
<shevy> but you need to be more precise - what exactly is a "colorized html version of a string"
<shevy> show one example please
<shevy> puts CodeRay.scan('puts \"Hello, world!\"', :ruby).div
<shevy> Result:
<shevy> <div class="CodeRay">
<shevy> <div class="code"><pre>puts <span style="color:#F00;background-color:#FAA">\</span><span style="background-color:hsla(0,100%,50%,0.05)"><span style="color:#710">&quot;</span><span style="color:#D20">Hello, world!</span><span style="color:#b0b">\&quot;</span></span></pre></div>
<shevy> </div>
<shevy> wheeeee
<crome> shevy: how much did you google for that one?
<shevy> for the links I had to google
<shevy> for the code below the links I had to query my local knowledgebase
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<shevy> I use CodeRay to colourize ansi colour code output on the terminal
<crome> ah, okay
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<shevy> crome this is how I Use it locally http://i.imgur.com/tExip76.png
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<shevy> nevermind that weird blocked area to the right, that is mplayer
<shevy> interferring with import-screenshot utility
<crome> that grey stuff looks like a weird movie
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<shevy> yeah mplayer is playing something
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<shevy> the above came from "cat bla.rb", coderay does the colourizing part
<shevy> result = CodeRay.scan(result, :ruby).term
<crome> I like it how running chrome even with a very simple tab open cuts like 2 hours from the battery life of my notebook
<shevy> result = CodeRay.scan(result, :python).term
<shevy> hehe
<shevy> come back to firefox man
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<trehg> hi
<trehg> who here knows how to setup nginx for RoR app?
<trehg> I nearly done it but some error comes
<crome> you basically run your app using whatever server you want to use and then reverse proxy with nginx to it
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<crome> and it's been ages since I set up nginx for the last time so I can't help you with the very details
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<shevy> hey havenwood I just discovered RVM https://rubygems.org/gems/rVM
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<trehg> crome thanks its the very details I want :P
<trehg> hehe
<trehg> o well I can solve it somehow
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<sfire||work> trehg: we use nginx -> unicorn at work
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<trehg> same
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<trehg> unicorn does work nginx gives error
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<trehg> nginx: the configuration file /etc/nginx/nginx.conf syntax is ok nginx: configuration file /etc/nginx/nginx.conf test is successful * Reloading nginx configuration nginx [fail]
<trehg> sfire||work: maybe you could gist sample nginx config when u get a moment?
<workmad3> trehg: check your nginx logs
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<sfire||work> in the unicorn.rb we have listen '/var/run/unicorn/reachconvert.sock’, and nginx has server unix:/var/run/unicorn/reachconvert.sock fail_timeout=0;
<sfire||work> inside upstream app_server { }
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<sfire||work> server http { try_files $uri/index.html $uri.html $uri @app; … proxy_pass http://app_server;}
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<TeresaP> Did I miss the response to the ruby parser question? I got disconnected
<crome> you did
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<trehg> workmad3: 0 errors in the log
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<crome> TeresaP: shevy recommended coderay while I found something called rouge
<shevy> TeresaP omg
<shevy> TeresaP here is the pastie http://pastie.org/pastes/9638620/text
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<TeresaP> thanks!
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<trehg> sfire||work: yes I think my sock location is wrong
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<shevy> don't mess with your socks man
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<benzrf> >> if true then 1 else 2
<eval-in_> benzrf => /tmp/execpad-32fa8ad4d391/source-32fa8ad4d391:3: syntax error, unexpected keyword_rescue, expecting keyword_end ... (https://eval.in/204378)
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<benzrf> >> if true; then 1; else; 2
<eval-in_> benzrf => /tmp/execpad-560443e35590/source-560443e35590:3: syntax error, unexpected keyword_rescue, expecting keyword_end ... (https://eval.in/204380)
<benzrf> >> if true then; 1; else; 2
<eval-in_> benzrf => /tmp/execpad-b54a6935ea85/source-b54a6935ea85:3: syntax error, unexpected keyword_rescue, expecting keyword_end ... (https://eval.in/204381)
<benzrf> huh
<Hanmac> benzrf: you forgot the "end" at the end
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<benzrf> o h
<benzrf> >> if true then 1 else 2 end
<eval-in_> benzrf => 1 (https://eval.in/204383)
<benzrf> h u h
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<benzrf> >> if true 1 else 2 end
<eval-in_> benzrf => /tmp/execpad-a5ee1b574c71/source-a5ee1b574c71:2: syntax error, unexpected tINTEGER, expecting keyword_then or ';' or '\n' ... (https://eval.in/204384)
<benzrf> ok
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<crome> reminds me of my favourite obfuscated perl code
<TeresaP> ooh yes I think that is what I need!
<Hanmac> hm ... rspec VS test-unit or both?
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<TeresaP> I was trying pygments but it wasn't colorizing
<TeresaP> Thanks guys. Will try at home.
<TeresaP> have a good weekend
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<crome> you too
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<shevy> my favourite ascii tokens are these since a while:
<shevy> \o/
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<wallerdev> cxxxx[========>
<shevy> if only \o/ could become an operator
<shevy> and please don't show your penis size here wallerdev
<wallerdev> its a SWORD
<gizmore> shevy: you can become operator easily, if you want
<shevy> gizmore I'd love to be able to define custom operators + macros in ruby
<gizmore> i thought channel operator... and wrong channel
<shevy> hehe
<shevy> nah
<shevy> I have no patience for that
<shevy> I'd randomly kick people out
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<shevy> and mute everyone but me
<gizmore> just /join #dumb-peeps :P (still wrong channel)
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<gizmore> you will be op \o/
<shevy> hey I am trying to be on less channels, not more!
<shevy> I am already on a few useless ones
<shevy> like #linuxhelp
<gizmore> good point!
<crome> I'm not sure I wanted shevy as an operator
<crome> code like "6 shevy 3" would look weird
<shevy> txdv would surely support me right man?
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<shevy> well
<gizmore> i switched from less to more though... less is overrated and more is more unix-ish
<shevy> I'd favour some traditional tokens still
<shevy> take the <=> thing
<shevy> imagine if it would be <shevy>
<shevy> I use more as well
<shevy> or perhaps not
<shevy> perhaps less of more and more of less
<crome> "perhaps not" should be an operator
<crome> :D
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<gizmore> welll... i vote for more consistency in the ruby language
<shevy> ok but how would it work crome?
<shevy> yeah gizmore
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<shevy> including stdlib and core
<gizmore> why can´t i have def something?!(); end
<shevy> I hate: require 'optparse'; OptionParser.new
<pipework> gizmore: What would you like to be more consistent?
<wallerdev> you can?
<gizmore> pipework: function naming
<pipework> You can define any string as a method.
<wallerdev> oh the !
<gizmore> def something?!; does not work
<pipework> gizmore: s/function/method/
<wallerdev> didnt see it
<gizmore> sry
<wallerdev> so small
<shevy> >> def foo?!; puts 'foo'; end; self.send :foo?!
<eval-in_> shevy => /tmp/execpad-8a1a61f6ad36/source-8a1a61f6ad36:2: syntax error, unexpected '!', expecting ';' or '\n' ... (https://eval.in/204388)
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<wallerdev> need fixed width irc
<wallerdev> :(
<shevy> hmm
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<pipework> >> define_method("something?!") { "hi" }; send("something?!")
<eval-in_> pipework => "hi" (https://eval.in/204389)
<gizmore> and here is my argument: foo?! will return a boolean foo status - and might raise an exception
<crome> >> :'foo?!"
<eval-in_> crome => /tmp/execpad-a523a3c43021/source-a523a3c43021:2: unterminated string meets end of file ... (https://eval.in/204390)
<shevy> yikes
<crome> oh shit
<gizmore> sorry
<shevy> I guess the ruby parser does not allow that gizmore
<pipework> crome: mismatched quotes
<crome> yeah
<crome> I'm retarded
<pipework> gizmore: any string will work though.
<gizmore> funny :)
<gizmore> this would make a cool challenge
<wallerdev> thats not a great reasoning, ! is pretty much never used to say this will raise an exception
<gizmore> what else are ! methods for?
<pipework> wallerdev: There's always contention over the meaning of !
<crome> it is a rails convention
<crome> sort of
<pipework> gizmore: 'danger'
<pipework> crome: nope
<wallerdev> oh is it a rails thing?
<shevy> Object.class_eval { define_method(':foo?!') { puts 'foo' } }
<pipework> It's not a rails thing.
<gizmore> but ? is often used for booleans/states
<shevy> how do I call this method?
<pipework> It's used for predicate methods.
<shevy> oh damn I am dumb
<pipework> Not necessarily boolean state.
<gizmore> and ! is often used for other things... why i can´t have boths... in.con.sis.ten.!! *jokes on me
<crome> pipework: using ! is not a rails thing, using it to indicate it might raise an exception is
<shevy> >> Object.class_eval { define_method('foo?!') { puts 'foo' } }; Object.send 'foo?!'
<eval-in_> shevy => foo ... (https://eval.in/204391)
<pipework> gizmore: You can use any string that you want as a method name.
<shevy> there you go gizmore!!!
<pipework> shevy: I showed that minutes ago.
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<shevy> wat
<wallerdev> rekt
<gizmore> yeah, only the parser / we
<shevy> you appear pink on my xchat pipework
<pipework> crome: I guess rails has used it, but they aren't the first.
<shevy> pink on white background
<shevy> I can't read a thing from you
<pipework> [16:10:52] <pipework> >> define_method("something?!") { "hi" }; send("something?!")
<shevy> oh that is clever, the above ^^^ is black on white background :)
<waxjar> you appear pink in my client shevy :p
<gizmore> >> define_method("foo!!bar") send("foo!!bar")
<eval-in_> gizmore => /tmp/execpad-1f8d7f5d5985/source-1f8d7f5d5985:2: syntax error, unexpected tIDENTIFIER, expecting keyword_end ... (https://eval.in/204392)
<gizmore> >> define_method("foo!!bar"); send("foo!!bar")
<eval-in_> gizmore => tried to create Proc object without a block (ArgumentError) ... (https://eval.in/204393)
<pipework> Caution: Users may be dumber than they appear.
<pipework> gizmore: Use define_method correctly. :)
<gizmore> >> define_method("foo!!bar") { 1 }; send("foo!!bar")
<eval-in_> gizmore => 1 (https://eval.in/204394)
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<gizmore> interesting
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<shevy> stupid mplayer window
<crome> lol @ gobolinux
<crome> :D
<pipework> shevy: You have poor eyesight.
<shevy> yeah pipework
<shevy> crome man, gobolinux rocked 10 years ago :(
<pipework> >> send(define_method "über!?!¢$" { 'hi' });
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<shevy> where is the output
<pipework> >> send(define_method("über!?!¢$"){ 'hi' });
<crome> you broke it
<pipework> Lul.
<shevy> oh the unicode bug
<pipework> >> send(define_method("´˚¬˚∆åß∂¬˚∆å") {"hi"})
<pipework> The bot has a bug, but that works.
<gizmore> brrr
<gizmore> but this sniffs like a challenge
<gizmore> code with functions using utf8-lookalikes
<crome> I want emoji methods
<gizmore> :)
<gizmore> without using send
<pipework> actually, hm.
<pipework> gizmore: make a DSL.
<gizmore> Dynamic Subscriber Line?
<gizmore> *Digital
<gizmore> !wtf DSL
<trehg> asdl is nice
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<trehg> or dial up
<trehg> 56k
<pipework> gizmore: Damn Silly Language?
<trehg> dial up torrents :P
<pipework> Look up what DSL might mean in the context of rubby.
<gizmore> i put 56k ready on routers i find
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<trehg> i got some ancient router :)
<trehg> on that note its time to party
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<gizmore> is it 56k ready?
<gizmore> if so, get a sticker!
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<sfire||work> if true then 1 else 2 end
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<sfire||work> >> if true then 1 else 2 end
<eval-in_> sfire||work => 1 (https://eval.in/204398)
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<gizmore> >> true and return 1
<eval-in_> gizmore => unexpected return (LocalJumpError) ... (https://eval.in/204399)
<gizmore> >> true and 1
<eval-in_> gizmore => 1 (https://eval.in/204400)
<gizmore> hmm
<gizmore> it´s sad one cannot use my first usage of "and"
<pipework> gizmore: why? return is silly
<pipework> Don't use it when it's already the last thing evaluated.
<gizmore> object.is_fine or return nil
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<pipework> less return pls.
<gizmore> i have to use:
<pipework> object.wants_booze or nil
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<gizmore> return nil unless object.is_fine
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<gizmore> hmm... it probably is related to my bad coding style
<oz> loop { oz.more_booze }
<shevy> it's cool because return there is explicit
<gizmore> i often return within functions
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<pipework> >> true.false? or 1
<eval-in_> pipework => undefined method `false?' for true:TrueClass (NoMethodError) ... (https://eval.in/204401)
<shevy> I do too but I call them methods
<shevy> and actually, I am inconsistent
<pipework> gizmore: Don't unless it's for early returns.
<shevy> I even do stuff like this:
<shevy> def return_bla
<gizmore> i would love positive feedback on my chatbot :(
<shevy> return bla
<shevy> but I also do this
<shevy> def bla
<shevy> @bla
<pipework> shevy: Seems like something you'd do.
<shevy> gizmore everyone hates chatty bots
<gizmore> i often use oneliners for methods
<shevy> yeah, I am totally unorthodox
<pipework> I use 0-liners whenever possible.
<shevy> gizmore example?
<gizmore> def is_foo?; true; end
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<shevy> ah you mean that
<shevy> I tried that for a while
<gizmore> def displayname; encode(name; end
<shevy> but I gave it up again because it conflicts with the rest of the code
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<pipework> gizmore: Psh, it's not a real one-liner if you need to use ;
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<shevy> my brain loves uniform patterns
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<pipework> define_method(:display_name) { encode(name) }
<sfire||work> to go to scroll back, I took foo.bar! in ruby to mean foo got modified
<shevy> I even used define_method in the past to define methods in my class
<sfire||work> And foo.baz? to be readonly/ boolean
<pipework> sfire||work: I prefer to use ! when something is mutating.
<sfire||work> so foo.barbaz?! doesn’t make much sense
<pipework> sfire||work: predicate methods aren't necessarily boolean or readonly.
<pipework> They just return truthy or falsy.
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<gizmore> that´s all about conventions, and i guess boolean for ? makes sense to most here... the ! is more discussworthy imo
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<gizmore> wheras it doesn´t matter if it´s boolean ... and less is more, and a duck is a duck :)
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<gizmore> the ! for exceptions nicely aids coding style i think and feel
<gizmore> i sometimes use it to inidicate it does not return anyting and does something cool
<gizmore> liker server.connection.connect!
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<crome> I don't like the ! for exceptions thing, technically each line of code could return an exception
<crome> raise*
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<gizmore> yep.. i agree that everything should and could return an exception
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<gizmore> exception handling in ruby is good, and it is fun to use the pattern
<volty> which pattern ?
<gizmore> using exceptions to handle conditions that can be handled, but not by this line of code
<gizmore> well... to me, ruby does a great job with exceptions
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<pipework> People who use exceptions for flow control upset me a great deal.
<crome> pipework: +1
<gizmore> all methods raise them nicely, and it´s fun to use them
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<pipework> Who cares if it's fun? You're doing it wrong.
<pipework> Read Exceptional Ruby from Avdi Grimm first.
<gizmore> i phrased my intentions wrongly
<shevy> it's no use gizmore
<shevy> pipework now has your balls
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<pipework> The only times I use exceptions that way is when it's really difficult to do it without the exception. Like checking if a string contains only an integeer. :(
<gizmore> maybe some look at my first big private ruby project, and find some real balls?
<volty> throw them away, do not allow haskell-like weirds to exceptionalize ruby !
<shevy> I don't like ! methods in general actually - I do use them for stuff like object.strip! or so, because it is faster than object = object.strip
<gizmore> important is to use no passive development
<shevy> volty, if you don't love haskell, benzrf will hate you
<gizmore> def to_foobar; FoobarParser.parse(self); end
<shevy> bzw benzrf you are even famous in #gobolinux :-)
<pipework> What is 'passive development'?
<shevy> <Oejet> That benzrf dude...
<volty> looking forward to explain to him ... :)
<Chinaski> check
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<gizmore> pipework: the foobarparser above is non-passive / offensive development
<shevy> volty what did you learn when you dived into haskell actually?
<shevy> I mean, like really *learn* - something that made you a wiser man
<pipework> gizmore: I don't know what that's supposed to mean.
<gizmore> pipework: now the defensive dev: def to_foobar; Parser.parse(self) rescue nil; end
<volty> i learned that 1) haskell is too pure for our impure world 2) haskell is much better than haskellers
<crome> I'm going to sleep the hell out of this night
<crome> g'bye
<volty> 3) there are too many intelligent idiots
<pipework> gizmore: Can you explain using words what it means instead of using ruby to try and infer meaning?
<gizmore> pipework: it is defensive, because the to_foobar tries to handle exceptions and do everything right... defensive tries to handle everything everywhere.... the ruby way is more offensive. it just works, and if not an exception is raised without most stuff not catching anything
<waxjar> the defensive dev is an evil dev
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<gizmore> and that´s what i meant with the exception pattern used nicely in ruby
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<gizmore> everything raises nicely, but nothing really catches. giving you the flow
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<gizmore> and if you catch something somewhere, it is probably defensive, and not the ruby way
<gizmore> s/probably/maybe
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<volty> exception is exception, exception pattern is a degeneration of design
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<gizmore> so exceptions are implemented nicely in ruby, and it´s fun to use them.... and i mean raising, not catching :)
<pipework> gizmore: Oh so what you mean is defensive not passive?
<gizmore> i am not good with the terms there
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<pipework> It's okay, I just didn't understand the phrase.
<gizmore> but i mean that, yes... passive/defensive
<pipework> gizmore: I bet you'll enjoy reading a lot of stuff from Avdi Grimm.
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<gizmore> i am an autodidact
<gizmore> i never read... i only code and guess things
<gizmore> i make assumptions, and prove / disprove them
<shevy> that's a valid way to learn
<gizmore> and i use stackoverflow and google to find snippets
<shevy> I never read manuals either
<gizmore> and use the docs too... but rarely :)
<volty> he is using exceptions instead of <if> :)
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<shevy> ok gizmore that is bad
<shevy> if/else is shorter than begin/rescue
<gizmore> volty was joking ;)
<volty> if true boom else go on ... till the next boom :)
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<shevy> ok volty don't use exceptions like that
<volty> no no, it must be that, i am not joking :)
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<shevy> guys please
<shevy> don't dumb down ruby
<shevy> one php for the world is enough
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<shevy> well it is bad
<shevy> you use @@vars as if they would be @vars
<pipework> gizmore: Ah, see I'm an autodidact, but I read and consume a lot.
<shevy> I can contest this
<gizmore> shevy: no, it is global threadcount
<shevy> pipework reads every documentation he can find
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<pipework> And source codes.
<gizmore> other people codes are often bad
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<pipework> Almost always.
<gizmore> i once read an article about doom sourcecode
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<shevy> it is hard to create high quality code
<gizmore> it exactly was, what elegant and good code is
<gizmore> short methods (1 screen rule)
<gizmore> consistent
<gizmore> oneliner methods for getter/setter/easy stuff
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<gizmore> good comments
<pipework> one screen rule?
<pipework> Lol.
<gizmore> a method should not span more than 20 lines
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<volty> 10 neurons enough rule ?
<gizmore> good luck finding methods with more than 20 lines in my projects
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<pipework> That doesn't necessarily mean you have good code.
<waxjar> that Thread.execute method is well over 20 lines..
<pipework> It just means that you may have a deep hierarchy of hopefully single-minded methods.
<gizmore> waxjar: i picked a snippet of my project that i dislike atm
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<shevy> gizmore whether you use oneliner-methods or 3-liner-methods really makes barely any difference
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<shevy> def foo; @foo; end
<shevy> or ^^^ 3 lines... big difference?
<gizmore> waxjar: also 20 lines was arbritary ... "1 screen rule" is not bad though
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<pipework> shevy: ; counts as newlines + 1
<pipework> gizmore: My screen fits way more than 20 lines in it.
<gizmore> shevy: the less you need to scroll, the better... coding is also about organizing your code and project. if you put some easy getters at top, it is no loss
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<volty> one-liners are better as long as others (and you after some time) can decipher them easier than the 3 lines
<gizmore> shevy: also grouping methods is a good coding practice, i usually mark groups with 3 lines of ##### GROUP ######
<pipework> gizmore: Comments are an admission of weakness unless they're rdoc comments
<gizmore> volty: yeah, my one-liners are not good coding practice maybe
<pipework> The length of methods matter a lot less than the clarity of the code being expressed.
<shevy> gizmore scrolling alone is not the only metric - if my eyes have to go only up-down then that is much better than having to go left-right as I scroll up-and-down at the same time
<waxjar> if find that if you need to group methods, you might want to abstract them to a class
<gizmore> pipework: can you teach me howto rdoc please?
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<shevy> the main focal point of a method is the method body's content
<pipework> gizmore: Nope, but rdoc's docs can show you how to document using rdoc.
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<shevy> rdoc is so awful
<pipework> Some people like yard.
<pipework> I like rdoc because it comes with ruby.
<shevy> gizmore I found that grouping method often does not give me a lot of extra information - I do tend to use tags though
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<gizmore> shevy: as i don´t use anything else to organize...yet
<shevy> gizmore like: # This method will nuke away all temporary directories created at startup (nuke tag); def nuke
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<gizmore> @rdoc
<pipework> You should look into Sandi Metz
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<pipework> She's pretty awesome.
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<shevy> the most important question initially is:
<shevy> does your code work?
<gizmore> you can try in #ricergame
<gizmore> or via icq 697570787
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<gizmore> thanks to ruby, the code works often better than expected... a shocking experience when you come from php
<volty> so, for an auto-«booting» app, better to have the boot loop in bash or in ruby ?
<gizmore> volty: "Auto booting?"
<volty> an app that changes its code, let's say
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<volty> .
<gizmore> my chatbot does code reload at runtime
<gizmore> simply using load file.rb
<volty> all the code ?
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<gizmore> yes
<volty> in case of error, falls back to previous ?
<zlude> Hello guys, I'm new in ruby/rails and i'm trying to encourage a friend to learn ruby, but he is saying that php is better, faster, etc etc. What do you guys think about that? can i provide a little benchmark to test than? php vs ruby.
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<existensil> hahahaha
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<gizmore> volty: good question... if a file fails you can get inconsistent state
<pipework> gizmore: load isn't code-reloading.
<pipework> Not cleanly.
<gizmore> i know... it´s monkeypatching
<pipework> It's just throwing shit at the wall.
<existensil> zlude: trying to benchmark php vs ruby is already missing the point
<waxjar> there's a nice article on code-reloading, one sec ill check my bookmarks
<gizmore> loading is monkeypatching an empty world
<wallerdev> zlude: usually ruby/rails devs are more concerned about finishing their site in half the time and having an easy to maintain site vs how fast the code runs, since well your slowest part is probably going to be DB calls
<volty> no, i have no prob, i have some ideas. You think that the main loop that is to decide what to boot next would be better in ruby / bash ?
<pipework> Not really. Monkeypatching has a specific definition.
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<existensil> zlude: that said, ruby should fair relatively well against PHP in benchmarks, but its mostly apples to oranges
<gizmore> volty: define booting?
<wallerdev> php and ruby arent particularly speedy but it doesnt matter for web dev really
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<pipework> Mmm jruby.
<existensil> PHP is almost exclusively a web scripting language, ruby is a full blown dynamic programming language
<gizmore> zlude: show him the "php - a fractal of bad design"
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<gizmore> PHP is just bad... the support is bad, the libs are bad, the language is bad
<existensil> ruby docs are better, the language is cleaner and more expressive, the community is better, and its just more fun
<gizmore> ruby is slim and elegant, the integration with ecosystems is better and it has less problems
<wallerdev> php isnt the worst thing in the world, if i had shared hosting and only need like a 2 page site with a contact form id be okay with using it haha
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<wallerdev> but anything substantial id stay away from php
<volty> gizmore: getting out of the app, completely, whether by error or because new one is available. As in booting in linux but an external shell (in ruby or bash) is to decide which version to boot (depending on the last result of running it)
<gizmore> php has no threading, no code reload at runtime
<existensil> a weak REPL
<existensil> if any
<gizmore> volty: maybe use a cronjob?
<volty> php candida trollens
<gizmore> i did php 5 years
<existensil> yeah, I coded in PHP almost exclusively for 6 years
<wallerdev> i did php for 30 years
<existensil> I know they have since gained a few new tricks, but its still not something I would ever willingly go back to
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<gizmore> i would not recommend it as weapon of choice, unless the example above (free hosting and a small page or two)
<pcflmb> hey all, problem with rails and I'm hoping you can help: I put 'twilio-ruby' in my gemfile, bundle install worked fine... I can require it from irb just fine... but when it's required in a controller i get a LoadError
<pipework> It's time to move onto a more grown up programming language. PHP isn't it.
<pipework> pcflmb: Show the Gemfile
<volty> no, let's think, the app (it's a qt) checks for new versions (of itself) with a timer or FileWatcher ... and exits with a certain code (or writing in a certain state file) when new version is avail
<gizmore> php surely taught me about webapps... but it´s not a very good language and ecosystem
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<existensil> I actually learned solid OOP design patterns and principals in PHP... and afterwards discovered that is the wrong language to do that in
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<shevy> lol
<wallerdev> php is good if you dont know how to code too! really easy to get setup with and copy paste your site to completion from blog posts lol
<existensil> but it still taught me a lot
<wallerdev> assuming you dont know how to code and dont want to learn how to code either
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<existensil> wallerdev: lol. +1
<gizmore> existensil: you might enjoy my php hacking challs :P https://www.wechall.net/challs/PHP/by/chall_score/ASC/page-1