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<mordof>
o/
<benzrf>
\o
<benzrf>
wot did i just hi5
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<mordof>
lol
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<mordof>
so I have a dilemma now that I have a decent amount of Ruby use behind me. I want to make something awesome - but it just doesn't seem like Ruby really as a fit anywhere outside of helper scripts/some server stuff, or (i know, terrible to put this as a main focus) rails dev
<mordof>
are there any other ways that Ruby really shines?
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<shevy>
yes
<shevy>
on the commandline
<shevy>
for EVERYTHING
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<shevy>
I use it as the glue language for everything
<shevy>
wav_to_mp3.rb
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<shevy>
guess what this does
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<mordof>
lol
<shevy>
increase_volume.rb
<Hijiri>
does it call ffmpeg?
<shevy>
I also lately combined a few more scripts to quickly jump towards different directories
<shevy>
Hijiri yeah mostly, though I think wav_to_mp3 uses lame (or vice versa... I also have mp3_to_wav etc...)
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<mordof>
i wonder how the ruby interpreter is in a cygwin environment..
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<Hijiri>
usually I just use bash for things like that, is it more terse in ruby?
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<shevy>
mordof when the path works, and ruby itself also works, then ruby will work
<shevy>
Hijiri well it depends
<shevy>
you can get away with quite a bit
<shevy>
for instance, cd in bash
<shevy>
cd /tmp/foo
<shevy>
in ruby it will have to be a bit more verbose
<shevy>
cd '/tmp/foo'
<shevy>
unless you use symbols or constants perhaps
<shevy>
BASE_DIR = '/tmp/foo'; cd BASE_DIR
<shevy>
however where it really shines is when things become more complex than that
<shevy>
like if you wish to use several --options
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<shevy>
and you can tap into a GUI like ruby-gnome
<Hijiri>
ok, I see
<Hijiri>
thanks shevy
<Hijiri>
ruby-gnome is GTK?
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<shevy>
yeah but also the gnome stuf
<shevy>
*stuff
<mordof>
bah.... this just makes me want to get a mac even more :/ lol
<mordof>
on a mac at work, and it's awesome for ruby dev
<shevy>
what can you do on a mac that you can not do on linux
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<mordof>
shevy: well - i imagine that's strictly limited to interacting with whatever services OS X has that linux doesn't
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<mordof>
but i just like the OS for mac better than linux
<benzrf>
I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/LInux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
<shevy>
mordof btw in PRIVMSG you asked me what to do as you run out of ideas; right now I write append.rb which will be aliased to "append", so I can append stuff into files both via > and without >
<benzrf>
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “Linux”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
<Hijiri>
which parts attract you to OS X more as a development environment?
<benzrf>
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself;
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<shevy>
benzrf is spamming again
<benzrf>
it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called “Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.
<shevy>
can we ban him
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<shevy>
mordof ok but what services specifically?
<benzrf>
shevy: fyi PRIVMSG is also how chats in channels work so
<shevy>
benzrf there is a difference between 1:1 PRIVMSG and channel PRIVMSG?
<shevy>
and you pasted the above stallman propaganda already a few times before
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<benzrf>
shevy: no
<benzrf>
the difference is:
<benzrf>
PRIVMSG #ruby :sup
<benzrf>
PRIVMSG shevy :sup
<shevy>
yeah the second option is better
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<shevy>
that way Hijiri has a chance that mordof sees his question
<shevy>
because I myself would not know why people use OS X
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<shevy>
aside from the good looks
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<shevy>
and the exclusive pricing scheme
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<shevy>
right mordof?
<mordof>
Hijiri: i'm not sure if there's a distro that has this better - but the "fullscreen" or w/e it is, the mission control - the capability to switch mission control desktops with gestures, the fact that it's based on unix - but doesn't require nearly as much effort or time spent maintaining or setting up
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<mordof>
the fact that there's quite a number of amazing applications made purely for OS X and no other OS
<mordof>
Alfred being one that i'm getting hooked on
<mordof>
that has to do with the OS structure and openness to be interacted with from a developers' perspective
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<Hijiri>
I can't think of any equivalent of mission control, but I haven't really had trouble keeping track of windows across multiple workspaces
<mordof>
also one of the big things that makes Apple so successful that has appeal - they sell their hardware, that's it. A highly polished OS that works specifically well with their hardware comes with it free. There's also a lot of new features that integrate with other Apple perhipherals that are nice too
<Hijiri>
and something like that doesn't seem like a huge thing for development
<benzrf>
im pretty sure gnu/linux is considerably more riceable than osx
<mordof>
"riceable"?
<mordof>
benzrf: i wouldn't doubt it either
<Hijiri>
it's when you set anime backgrounds
<Hijiri>
and post them to imageboards
<benzrf>
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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<mordof>
Hijiri: honestly it's just the fact that everything about Apple ends up being highly integrated without any effort that really makes it nice
<mordof>
especially with the new operating system
<benzrf>
no, ricing = spending hours tweaking and customizing for 100% optimal efficiency and h4x0r looks
<mordof>
ah
<shevy>
mordof my great idea is that ruby will handle all my setups
<benzrf>
for many people this includes setting anime backgrounds :o)
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<shevy>
one file is wallpaper.rb, you can guess what it attempts to do
<mordof>
that's one thing that OS X doesn't do much of - is allow for customizability as far as the looks and functionality goes
<mordof>
but i don't really care that much
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<mordof>
it's a tossup
<Hijiri>
how hard is it to install new libraries on OS X?
<mordof>
simple
<shevy>
difficult
<mordof>
brew install <package>
<mordof>
get homebrew
<Hijiri>
and also I don't know how OSX's package management works
<shevy>
homebrew has some crazy path
<mordof>
OS X doesn't have a native package manager i don't think, but homebrew is great
<shevy>
/usr/local/Cellar
<Hijiri>
and by don't know is I just haven't looked into it
<mordof>
lol, yeah.. the cellar
<shevy>
Hijiri in principle you have a .bundle as far as I know
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<shevy>
and I guess people can double click on that
<shevy>
they got at least one thing right in homebrew
<mordof>
shevy: it's roughly the same as the package manage for most linux distros
<shevy>
/usr/local/Cellar/wget/1.15
<shevy>
nope, it is not at all the same
<mordof>
in use i mean
<mordof>
i realise it's going to be drastically different under the hood
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<shevy>
the linux distributions dump their shit into /usr prefix (or into / prefix more generally, with the default splitups for /etc sometimes /var and I think a few more - most others go into /usr/ prefix though)
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<shevy>
they keep no version information
<shevy>
that is why you see crap like debian use /usr/bin/ruby as a symlink, to point towards e. g. /usr/bin/ruby1.8 or I guess nowadays /usr/bin/ruby2.0 ?
<shevy>
they also have /etc/alternatives/ which works pretty much like those versioned directories like /usr/local/Cellar/wget/1.15
<shevy>
hmm sorry
<shevy>
*/etc/alternative/
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<shevy>
once you use a scheme like /usr/bin/ruby, you can have only one file there
<Hijiri>
debian uses its alternatives thing
<shevy>
that is why they can not easily allow for multiple versions
<Hijiri>
which I ran into when breaking wine
<shevy>
and that is also a reason why rvm and rbenv became so popular
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<Hijiri>
oh, that's something else, other people have told me that running wine is more difficult in OS X
<Hijiri>
so I wasn't able to soku them
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<Hijiri>
I don't know if they tried brew though
<shevy>
don't the osx folks often have binaries for their OS anyway?
<mordof>
i've not tried to run wine. if i want to run windows applications i'm jsut going to use a VM and put it in seamless mode
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<Hijiri>
I prefer to avoid the extra overhead of a VM if I can
<Hijiri>
and also I prefer not to run windows
<shevy>
hehehe
<shevy>
I am fine with any OS
<shevy>
as long as I have ruby
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<shevy>
I can use ruby-gnome on windows too so it's nice
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<shevy>
I even found out that you can use more than 256 colours on the commandline \o/
<benzrf>
(it does :each by default if no name is given)
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<ziggles>
is the benefit that w/o a block you will get an Enumerator back? Sorry for such dumb questions but it's really not obvious to me for some reason
<benzrf>
ziggles: yeah
<jennings_wang>
quit
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<ziggles>
benzrf: i see... And is the benefit of getting an Enumerator back that the Enumerator preserves enumeration state?
<ziggles>
For example, in the article pontiki linked, they show that with an enumerator you can do things like e.next
<benzrf>
the benefit is that enumerators are cooool
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<ziggles>
i'm definitely not doubting that! :)
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<Nilium>
Could also use ZeroMQ if you're just using sockets for IPC.
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<soahccc>
Nilium: Well I have a ruby daemon process and I would like to have a custom REPL. Generally the concept of a socket works for me but I only worked with TCP sockets
<Nilium>
But is it purely for inter-process comm?
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<soahccc>
Nilium: yeah but session based (I don't know if that makes sense). At the end I want to run a command to get into pry which then can invoke stuff in the daemonized process
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<soahccc>
so yeah I guess that is IPC
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<Nilium>
Well, sessions are more your code's problem and less the sockets. If you just want good cross-platform IPC sockets, take a look at ZeroMQ.
<Nilium>
Also works fairly well for thread communication.
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<Nilium>
I can't remember which ZMQ gem is current though, so you'll have to look into that
<soahccc>
would you just need the gem or still the installer? ZeroMQ seems nice but it needs to be installed, no?
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<Nilium>
Far as I know, you'll need to have libzmq installed somehow, but I'm not sure about an installer there.
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<Nilium>
If ZeroMQ has an installer, it'd be news to me, but I don't use Windows, so libraries with installers are kind of rare
<Nilium>
Kind of limited to the likes of Qt and other ones that're so big that building the entire thing might be measured in days
<soahccc>
Yeah I just would like to reduce that as the windows installer is already hell... tar, git, ruby, devkit, ...
<soahccc>
the installer for my program I mean.
<Nilium>
Could just bundle the shared library with it.
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<soahccc>
I have 28 lines forming a simple chat server. That must be doable with files instead of ports :( There is UNIXsocket and pain for windows :)
<soahccc>
I had a hard time supporting windows so far... It's really annoying
<Nilium>
There's also winsock, depending on whether you want to start writing stuff in C.
<soahccc>
I'm not that into C I'm afraid
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<Nilium>
I'm not sure there're any really simple options for Windows, anyway. It's not exactly known for being POSIX-friendly.
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<soahccc>
yeah I had a funny time figuring out how to update the PATH
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<soahccc>
ended up using a 3rd party tool
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<arclitgo1d>
ayup
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<soahccc>
Would it be dirty to try to bind to a port and save that like a pid in a file? I don't actually mind the TCP socket but the configuration step for multiple instances of the app
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* Nilium
shrugs
<shevy>
if you can write to the filesystem
<shevy>
sure - you put extra information into files
<soahccc>
I mean "trying to find an empty port"
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<shevy>
dumdedum
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<hoomeu8>
apeiros: right thanks but i still do not picture what a caller is.. when people use the term caller it seems to refer to an execution context
<eam>
goto's gonna goto
<apeiros>
hoomeu8: yes, the execution context where a method is called
<apeiros>
as I said, what is understood under "caller" depends a lot on context.
<hoomeu8>
which is the scope
<havenwood>
hoomeu8: the callers is doing the calling
<apeiros>
hoomeu8: no, which *has* a scope
<apeiros>
has, not is
<apeiros>
every context has a scope, or rather, multiple scopes
<hoomeu8>
scope of the receiver*
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<havenwood>
hoomeu8: the difference between caller and scope is like the difference between ice cream shop patrons and buildings
<apeiros>
scope determines which instance variable is resolved by a name, which method, which local variable, etc.
<apeiros>
all those scopes come together in a given context
<apeiros>
e.g. @ivars are scoped by object
<apeiros>
local vars are scoped lexically
<apeiros>
constants are scoped lexically with a bit of lookup logic
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<apeiros>
and methods are scoped the same as ivars
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<hoomeu8>
Variables are said to be lexically scoped if they're accessible during compile time, in C like languages lexical scoping is usually delimited by blocks. Scope is the environment context. A caller is the environment context of the method being called or simply the context of execution.
<hoomeu8>
apeiros: thoughts on that.
<apeiros>
hoomeu8: does not apply fully to ruby
<apeiros>
see above
<apeiros>
lvars & constants are lexically scoped
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<hoomeu8>
lvars?
<apeiros>
local variables
<hoomeu8>
in ruby the delimiter is the def keyword or class or module
<apeiros>
$gvars = global variables, @@cvars = class variables, @ivars = instance variables, Constants, lvars
<apeiros>
yes, def/class/module change scopes
<apeiros>
but def changes different scopes than class/module
<hoomeu8>
as for constants..please explain
<apeiros>
def e.g. does not change constant scope. class/module do.
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<apeiros>
also you don't need a keyword to change ivar scope. see instance_exec and co.
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<hoomeu8>
oh right, can you remind me the difference between instance_eval class_eval instance_exec i never seem to be bale to remember it
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<apeiros>
they are about changing different scopes. the documentation does a better job at explaining them.
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<hoomeu8>
apeiros: ah class eval evaluates the block in the context of the class and instance_eval in the context of the instance
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* havenwood
plots to use #private_constant
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<havenwood>
anyone ever seen #const_missing in the wild?
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<Morrolan>
Yea. Uh, RSpec I think?
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<havenwood>
Morrolan: ahh, interesting - was surprised rspec used drb too
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<havenwood>
Morrolan: i haven't actually looked at rspec code, i need to take a look!
<Morrolan>
I imagine they have some interesting code, given their DSL
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<havenwood>
Morrolan: hmm, seems they may use neither now, dunno
<apeiros>
havenwood: for autoloading, yes
<havenwood>
apeiros: ahh
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<apeiros>
though I think one should prefer Kernel#autoload, especially since it's now supposedly thread safe
<apeiros>
at least iirc
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<havenwood>
apeiros: aye, i think a lot of folk got the word it wasn't thread safe and was due to be deprecated but not the update that it's been made thread safe and is no longer shunned
<apeiros>
havenwood: yeah, but they went ahead and built an even worse (safety-wise) system based on const_missing :D
<havenwood>
hehe
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<havenwood>
no longer shunned for that particular reason*
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<havenwood>
rails gets to keep doing there thing
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<havenwood>
thier*
<havenwood>
jeesh
<havenwood>
require 'English'
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<shevy>
require 'Russian'
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<havenwood>
Lewix: anyways, if it can be serialized it Marshals the Object and copies the value over, passing by value
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<havenwood>
Lewix: passing by reference is a bit more complicated
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<havenwood>
DRb serializes an Object containing a reference to the original un-Marshalable Object
<Lewix>
havenwood: I'm not familiar with DRbObjects, but I just think that in this instance the author of effective ruby is wrong. He believes that there's no real difference between call by sharing and call by refrence
<Lewix>
whereas assignments to function arguments within the function aren't visible to the caller
<havenwood>
Lewix: DRb is in the Ruby stdlib and the distinction makes sense and is used in that context.
<havenwood>
Lewix: Maybe aside the point from what you're saying though?
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<Lewix>
I guess my voice does not count =)
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<havenwood>
Lewix: DRb automatically tries to pass by value and if it can't it tries passing by reference.
<havenwood>
Lewix: Some folk advise therefore only passing stuff that's serializable, relying on the standard pass by value.
<Lewix>
copy/paste from the book "Most objects are passed around as references and not as actual values.The same is true when objects are passed as method arguments. The method will receive a reference to the object and not a new copy. "
<vivekrai>
Hi all. I have added few methods to a module as module_function.
<vivekrai>
Is it possible to have a list of the added methods?
<havenwood>
Lewix: i guess a different layer of abstraction, dunno! :O
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<vivekrai>
I have a piece of code which would call those methods automatically, and I don't know how many methods there would be.
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<Lewix>
havenwood: and on twitter he agrees that it's pass by value but believe that theres no meaningful difference however I think it's important to know the difference and not abuse pass by reference . According to him I'm wrong
<rpag>
but the behavior it comes closest to in ruby, in my mind, is "pass by reference"
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<havenwood>
Lewix: “Strictly speaking, Ruby passes by reference. However, what Ruby passes is a reference value of an object so that you can modify the object that the reference value is pointing to with Ruby’s destructive method (= methods ending with !).” Excerpt From: Masatoshi Seki. “The dRuby Book (for Johnneylee Jack Rollins).” iBooks.
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<benzrf>
in
* benzrf
picks up his megaphone
<benzrf>
HASKELL
* benzrf
puts down his megaphone
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<benzrf>
there is no significant distinction between pass by val and pass by ref
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<havenwood>
road. ro....ad....
<rpag>
last time i argued ruby passes by reference in #ruby i was told it doesn't because ruby doesn't have references, it has objects, and you just pass objects around
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<havenwood>
rpag: for globally scoped local variables named `cat` of course!
<rpag>
oh hah
<havenwood>
alias cat="say meow meow meow"
<rpag>
there's nyan-cat in pry too
<rpag>
fuck
<rpag>
cant leave that command
<benzrf>
hah
<rpag>
ctrl+c did it
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<havenwood>
say --voice="Pipe Organ" `echo meow$catcat{1..100}`
<havenwood>
OS X ^
<havenwood>
oh dear, i've actually made it listening to 32
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<havenwood>
and ship it: alias cat="echo \"=^.^=\" && say --voice=\"Pipe Organ\" \"$(yes meow | head -n 33)\""
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<benzrf>
how i do on gnu/linux
<shevy>
I approve the use of cats in this channel
<havenwood>
benzrf: distro?
<benzrf>
crunchbang
<benzrf>
aka debian
<havenwood>
benzrf: pt-get install espeak
<havenwood>
apt*
<benzrf>
i got espeak
<benzrf>
how do i get organ cat
<havenwood>
ahhh, i don't know if espeak can organ :O
<rpag>
espeak is 'say' for linux?
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<havenwood>
benzrf: checking langs
<rpag>
hah
<rpag>
awesome
<havenwood>
benzrf: hrm, i have no voices on this debian box: espeak --voices="?"
<rpag>
i have none either
<rpag>
just the default
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<rpag>
i had no clue linux had an alternative for that though
<benzrf>
I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/LInux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
<benzrf>
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “Linux”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
<benzrf>
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself;
<benzrf>
it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called “Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.
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<rpag>
hahaha
<rpag>
yeah
<rpag>
forgot
<rpag>
GNU/Linux*
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<havenwood>
though it should unalias itself before running so if cancelled there's no trace why it happend: alias cat="unalias cat && echo \"=^.^=\" && say --voice=\"Pipe Organ\" \"$(yes meow | head -n 33)\""
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<havenwood>
and that should probably be in a dotfile
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<havenwood>
or in /etc/paths
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<havenwood>
though that'd give it away, could be sneakier
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<aaronite>
What's better, Ruby or Sapphire?
<rpag>
sapphire
<havenwood>
aaronite: the only difference is the color
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<aaronite>
havenwood: ok
<aaronite>
i like blue more
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<havenwood>
aaronite: but Ruby.
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<havenwood>
aaronite: Don't rule out Padparadscha!
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<benzrf>
emerald is pretty good
<benzrf>
u can get rayquaza
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<IceDragon>
shevy: I have not abandoned ruby :3
<IceDragon>
I just added Go to my list of "Languages that I know now"
<Lewix>
did you see the new smartBand of Lenovo
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<Lewix>
IceDragon: what do you do with Go, and what do you do with mruby
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<IceDragon>
Lewix: I was staring at Go code for hours and couldn't understand what was happening...
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<shevy>
so like haskell
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<IceDragon>
Lewix: World Domination obviously, what else would you do with programming?!
<IceDragon>
Lewix: jokes aside, flynn uses Go, and I try helping out with flynn, so there is the Go
<IceDragon>
Lewix: mruby on the other hand, I use it as a scripting language for a game engine in my spare time
<shevy>
YES
<shevy>
MRUBY FOR THE WIN!
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<Lewix>
IceDragon: you're right pinky
<Lewix>
IceDragon: what's flynn
<Lewix>
shevy: haskell is...more like looking at the code in terms of years not hours
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<Lewix>
Pinky: Gee, Brain, what do you want to do tonight?
<Lewix>
Brain: The same thing we do every night, Pinky - try to take over the world!
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<shevy>
lol
<IceDragon>
And I use ruby to solve every other problem I have with the daily usage of my computer (its my calculator, reminder, auto-force-download-sync, WORLD DOMINATION :D)
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<Lewix>
IceDragon: do you have a github with your world domination tools
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<shevy>
iron maiden
<shevy>
back stretcher
<shevy>
groin twister
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<shevy>
show us the goodies IceDragon!
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<IceDragon>
mehhhhh
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<shevy>
what a sexy dragon roar
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<bigmac>
has any one used chilkat
<bigmac>
ssl stuff
<bigmac>
https
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<Hanmac>
shevy this weekend there will be no weekly build of rwx, but i did a mass of commits with a travis build in the end ... one of the bigger part is that i try to make wxBitmap dumpable with is a bit more complicated than i thought
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<bigmac>
any one good at spoon feeding
<bigmac>
chilkat
<bigmac>
sening a get request to https.m.facebook
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<bigmac>
i just suck at libs... dont understand them...
<bigmac>
i want to see my header fields...
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<bigmac>
i guess i need to look at the source chilkat
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<Morrolan>
In general, take a look at the 'examples' directory. :)
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<folippi>
I'm making a regex that will catch all content-type image/***, except for gif. The problem is doing the "not 'gif'" part. The closest I get is /\Aimage\/^[gif]*\Z/, but that does not work. String that shall pass are "image/jpeg", "image/png" but not "image/gif". How do you in a regex negate a sequence of characters?
<apeiros>
folippi: (?!gif)
<apeiros>
read about look-arounds. note that they're non-consuming ("cursor" does not advance)
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<folippi>
apeiros: like so "\Aimage\/(?!gif)\z"? When I test that against "image/gif" and "image/jpeg" both do not match
<folippi>
I'll read up on look-arounds. Thanks for the tip!
<apeiros>
folippi: as said, (?!…) is non-consuming. so your regex only matches "image/"
<apeiros>
/\Aimage\/(?!gif)\w+\z # e.g.
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<folippi>
Cool! You are totally right. And thanks a lot for pointing towards look-arounds, that was a gap in my regex knowledge
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<wyclif>
hey
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<nowthatsamatt>
how would I get the $() to be its own var in ruby
<nowthatsamatt>
something like: x = exec(“/sbin/ifconfig eth1 | grep 'inet addr' | awk -F: '{print $2}' | awk '{print $1}’”) but i don't know how to put it in