<noob101>
Ok, thank you very much. I will try that.
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<csmrfx>
noob101: you got irb?
<noob101>
csmrfx: Why you ask?
<csmrfx>
irb also has help which shows same as ri
<csmrfx>
noob101: because like ri, irb is good help
<noob101>
csmrfx: ok
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<shevy>
noob101 what is your OS?
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<shevy>
benzrf whatcha working on lately
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<benzrf>
shevy: mostly haskell stuff
<benzrf>
:^O
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<shevy>
hmm
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<shevy>
cats should become programmers
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<VinDH>
programmers should become cats
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<arrubin>
I would be happy if they did anything useful at all.
<yakko>
hey guys, is there any better way to check a bcrypt other than rescueing an error? BCrypt::Password.new(password_digest) == plain_text_password rescue BCrypt::Errors::InvalidHash false
<VinDH>
don't insult us cats arrubin. Meow.
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<shevy>
we have those mice stinkers hiding everywhere
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<shevy>
like the tiny ones seem like miniature field mice (though they dwell in the town), the larger ones appear like rats (but are more mouse-sized)... I've never seen fat black rats nearby so far
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<shevy>
now if rodents were programmers ...
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<benzrf>
mow
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<arrubin>
shevy: My building has no rodents.
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<arrubin>
Or at least my unit does not.
<arrubin>
There are a lot of stray cats in the neighborhood...
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<noob101>
shevy, windows and sorry I was taking a shower.
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<shevy>
stray cats to eat those mice
<arrubin>
I just wish that my cats would clean up after themselves.
<arrubin>
That is all that I ask.
<Quadlex>
arrubin: Get long haired cats and spray them with cleaner
<arrubin>
Quadlex: I was referring more to their litter box.
<arrubin>
And long-haired cats are even messier.
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<arrubin>
Most cats will take care of their hair.
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<Quadlex>
So, weirdo question
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<Quadlex>
Would any of the North Americans be interested in a talk about how the Ruby community in Australia differs from that in North America?
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<arrubin>
Quadlex: I am not convinced that anyone could speak authoritatively about either.
<arrubin>
There is not one community in NA.
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<csmrfx>
who are these trolls suggesting ketogenic diet as treatment for lymes disease in #nutrition
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<Quadlex>
arrubin: Yeah, that's my reason for not pitching it yet. I think it'd be interesting to talk about the differences *I* see, but they'd be anecdata
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<arrubin>
Quadlex: I do not think that it would make an interesting talk unless you were able to offer something that the local audience can consider applying.
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<notepro>
hi if i have a hash called "pages"
<notepro>
how can i print all the keys from that hash
<notepro>
puts _______
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<joelteon>
pages.keys
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<noob101>
I need help. :[
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<noob101>
So basically I am trying to create a block of code(each loop) that would compare if the cards that user has is the same as the cards in the deck. If it's the same then the card in the deck would be delete meaning it's not in the deck but in use. Please check out my code and give me suggestions please.
<duncannz>
it returns "bar". but what if it was meant to return foo()?
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<duncannz>
s/foo()/"foo"
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<duncannz>
also, manually writing `return foo()` works as expected. so wouldn't it be a good practice to explicitly write `return` always? or is there some rule
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<jle`>
duncannz: it always returns the last statement
<jle`>
so it's not really ambiguous, normally
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<duncannz>
jle`: then what about if foo ; "x" ; end ; "y"; that returns "y" but that logically should return "x"
<jle`>
what do you mean logically?
<duncannz>
I guess im just trying to get over my way of thinking
<duncannz>
but this is one thing about ruby i find especially odd
<jle`>
if your function has an if statement in it, then it should return what's in the if statement, even if there are values after it?
<jle`>
i'm not sure what sort of intuition you are trying to describe :)
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<duncannz>
well if foo; return "x"; end; return "y" does what I want (returns "x")
<duncannz>
if foo is true
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<jle`>
`"x" if foo` is just a statement that evaluates to a value
<jimbauds>
if foo the method is going to return x otherwise the method is going to return y
<jle`>
`return "x" if foo` is a control flow thing
<jle`>
er my ruby semantics are a bit rusty
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<jimbauds>
a return statement exit the method
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<duncannz>
in every other language I know if true{return 'x'} return 'y' returns 'x'. and in ruby it does if I use `return` but returns 'y' otherwise. which seems confusing since "return" is optional but it actually behaves differently
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<jimbauds>
a return statement exit the method
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<jle`>
you can think of return as just 'exit here now'
<duncannz>
ok so basically 'y' on its own sets the return value, then if you don't write `return` then it automatically returns what thereturn value was last set to. is that one way to put it?
<apeiros>
duncannz: as it already has been stated - without explicit return, the last evaluated value is returned
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<duncannz>
yep ok thats making more sense
<apeiros>
duncannz: so it's unambiguously returning 'y' if you do: if true; 'x'; end; 'y'
<jle`>
if there is no return, then by default, whatever the last statement is is returned
<jle`>
you can use an explicit return to jump and exit out early
<jimbauds>
you can ommmit the word return .. it's caled sugar code
<duncannz>
jle`: i see
<duncannz>
yep thanks
<apeiros>
duncannz: so `if true{return 'x'} return 'y'` is not the same as `if true; 'x'; end; 'y' `
<jle`>
it's a bit similar if you've used blocks
<jle`>
arr.map { |x| ... }
<jle`>
er
<jle`>
arr.map do | x|
<jle`>
...
<apeiros>
if true; 'x'; else 'y' end # this would be equivalent
<jle`>
normally the last value in your block is returned
<jle`>
as the value of the block
<jle`>
i think if you've used blocks, this is sort of natural
<jle`>
arr.map { |x| x*2 }
<jle`>
you expect it to just be x*2
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<jle`>
without an explicit "return" keyword
<jle`>
but if you need to "exit" early, you can use the `next` keyword
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<jle`>
arr.map { |x| if x.even then next x^2 else next x+3 }
<jle`>
um my ruby syntax is rusty
<jle`>
that's probably not valid ruby, but you get the point :)
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<pontiki>
it's not
<apeiros>
it's missing an `end`
<pontiki>
the x^2 and x+3 are very confusing
<apeiros>
and .even?, not .even
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<jle`>
ty
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<shvelo>
ჰაი shevy
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<GlenK>
anyone catch game of thrones?
<GlenK>
best episode ever
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<noob101>
good morning
<tagrudev>
certainty, ping
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<GlenK>
hi
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<GlenK>
ha, so you people know me. or not. I've been off and on hanging around a bit recently
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<GlenK>
ruby, well, it makes sense in a lot of ways
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<GlenK>
but then ocaml, where things are explictly typed, that makes sense too
<GlenK>
and performance is in the back of my head, so ocam
<GlenK>
ocaml rather
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<GlenK>
then there's J. which lets me do weird stuff like make primitive matricies that just work with primitive arrays or vectors perhaps and I have no idea how it works in all cases
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<GlenK>
argh, then ruby seems harmful in that I just end up doing a weird combination of c/java and am still not sure how blocks work, hell, not sure how if's work
<GlenK>
if end? if {}? throw an else in there? put it all on one line seems more readable in some cases
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<GlenK>
gah, i I put some craziness if on one like then I'm the crazy
<GlenK>
flip
<GlenK>
I do need to really learn ruby and then ocaml and then J for a frame of reference
<GlenK>
and then I'll be 80 and where does it all end?
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<canton7-mac>
it ends with you having a broad and substantial base, and being able to earn money as a competant programmer ;)
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<GlenK>
canton7-mac: well, in this world, feeling overwhelmed can't be foreign
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<GlenK>
but yes. earning money may be one way to put it, being useful could be another.
<canton7-mac>
sounds like the beginning of any new project, yes
<canton7-mac>
I was just answering your rhetorical question :P
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<GlenK>
I know
<GlenK>
fair enough. suppose I'm mostly talking to myself
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<GlenK>
eh, I was hoping some magical guy would step in and say, whilst ocaml has this and that ruby has this and that, and C and Scala and go and multiply my child
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<GlenK>
ha, my ruby skills always feel bad I guess is the jist
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<shevy>
get better man GlenK
<shevy>
GlenK you can combine crazinesses
<shevy>
if game_over?
<shevy>
run_cleanup
<shevy>
end unless is_this_valid?
<GlenK>
haha
<shevy>
but it also gets harder to read
<GlenK>
you I've always liked
<shevy>
so there is a tradeoff
<shevy>
the worse example I know of is in stdlib, optparse
<GlenK>
but nah, I just need more practice. it sucks needing so much pratice though
<shevy>
end.parse! ARGV
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<shevy>
when I see it, kittens die
<GlenK>
hey, what. you're not talking about that thing I pasted earlier are you?
<shevy>
I just woke up
<shevy>
I didnt scroll up
<shevy>
I am literally not even fully awake as of yet
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<GlenK>
oh, no. that was hours ago. when I think you were functional.
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<GlenK>
I am looking to get more rubyish
<shevy>
I never read anything from you in my life before!
<shevy>
don't get so rubbish!!!
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<GlenK>
I'm going to paste it again
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<shevy>
ack
<GlenK>
ack is right
<GlenK>
and maybe I never pasted it to begin with
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<GlenK>
but I am a neophyte and it took me a long time to get where I got and it still feels sucky compared to something like "for method a do a.improve" or whatever
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<shevy>
ack ack
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<shevy>
<canton7-mac> it ends with you having a broad and substantial base, and being able to earn money as a competant programmer
<canton7-mac>
you never stop learning, or being overwhelmed ;)
<canton7-mac>
s/you never stop/you *should* never stop/
<canton7-mac>
if you do stop, that's when you stagnate
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<GlenK>
I somewhat posted this earlier. but it was embarrasing as my print was off by one and I was confused
<GlenK>
well, maybe my off by one error is at least not silly now?
<GlenK>
anyhow, if some rubyish improvements could be suggested. that would be sweet
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<shevy>
I dont even know what that code is trying to convey
<canton7-mac>
GlenK, if you see a #each + manipulation of some variable outside of that #each, that's an indication that there may be a better alternative
<shevy>
stringData.each {|item| item.chomp!}
<GlenK>
oh, and currying. is that the scheme type anonymous function thing?
<canton7-mac>
GlenK, in this case, #count might be better
<shevy>
stringData.map(&:chomp!)
<shevy>
erm
<canton7-mac>
meh, I'm no fan of that ^^
<shevy>
stringData.map!(&:chomp)
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<GlenK>
shevy: well yeah, my algorithm miight be screwy given it's for an algorithm class
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<shevy>
I still wouldn't know what that is
<shevy>
I think it helps if you start to use one line # comment to explain what this is supposed to do!
<GlenK>
so please take it easy in those regards as opposed to just being rubyish
<shevy>
damn I just realize, I need to leave home here soon and buy groceries and crap, but I am tired :(
<GlenK>
shevy: I guess I should clarify. I have trouble deciding whther or not to use {
<GlenK>
as opposed to if end
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<GlenK>
and then really confused when one doesn't work and having to switch to the other.
<GlenK>
gah
<GlenK>
I should just go back to experimenting now
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<csmrfx>
goes to show what sleepy brain is capable of...
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<GlenK>
but you jerks seem to know something about something. given I'm a C/java jerko. give me a book title? website? code acadey and koans and some other junk have unlearned me nothing.
<csmrfx>
read the flanagan & matsumoto ruby book
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<csmrfx>
you can read parts on ggl books
<csmrfx>
aand, I doubt you've done all the koans
<GlenK>
you can check my github. 100% on koans
<GlenK>
koans is easy easy
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<GlenK>
ruby monk is a thing
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<GlenK>
ruby monk is easy
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<GlenK>
code academy is easy
<GlenK>
and here I sit knowing C and thats about it
<csmrfx>
what are you after then?
<csmrfx>
MRI is written in C
<csmrfx>
you done your koans
<GlenK>
spose I'd be good at diving in to a real world project. but too bad kde doesn't do that
<GlenK>
as in kde isn't ruby
<csmrfx>
is there something you dont already know, or cannot read from the sources?
<csmrfx>
just start a project already!
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<GlenK>
of course. I can't say, yo. here's a filesystem design that I thought up, this is way better than X filesystem be cause a b c
<GlenK>
of course there's crap I don't know
<csmrfx>
hmm, you don't suggest it, you make it as POC and then people either get excited or not
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<GlenK>
hell, I thought I just pasted some basic stuff and it's like dude, I did it, but I have nowhere to begin starting to optimize it or make it better
<DaniG2k>
guys i tried to install the latest ruby with RVM on my mac but it only seems to have 2.1.1 as the lastest
<csmrfx>
well are you familiar with testing?
<csmrfx>
test first
<DaniG2k>
has anyone been able to get 2.1.2 with RVM on a Mac?
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<csmrfx>
also, metrics (as in, benchmarking your code for ram and cpu use + optimizations)
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<GlenK>
DaniG2k: I'm the wrong guy to ask. but I'd say start with a package manager for mac? I know that's thing for linux type junk
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<apeiros>
DaniG2k: sure, on day one
<GlenK>
DaniG2k: but see, I'm the wrong guy to ask, so don't do that and go with gem install foo or whatever
<DaniG2k>
GlenK: I have homebrew, but I think RVM sould be able to install ruby by default
<apeiros>
DaniG2k: just rvm install 2.1.2
<DaniG2k>
apeiros: maybe its considered unstable which is why --stable still shows 2.1.1
<DaniG2k>
apeiros: ah ok yea that was it
<GlenK>
DaniG2k: oh wait, what. this is a case of your distro not having ruby 39.399.1000? bah
<apeiros>
DaniG2k: did you update your rvm before doing --stable?
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<DaniG2k>
apeiros: yes
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<GlenK>
I'm starting to see the light on having gem or whatever control software versions
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<GlenK>
from a sysadmin standpoint die die die
<GlenK>
from a dev standpoint, I like it. you control software versions. it's great
<apeiros>
if package managers didn't suck balls, those things wouldn't be necessary
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<csmrfx>
I was just about to write: "from a debian perspective, you're still in ruby 1.9.1"
<GlenK>
from a sysadmin standpoint, well, like always outdated software is going to be the thing. but it beats everyone crying?
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<workmad3>
csmrfx: or ubuntu, where ruby 1.9.3 is a package alias for ruby 1.9.1, which installs ruby 1.9.3...
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<GlenK>
sbt is sweet
<GlenK>
just saying
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<GlenK>
gem or whatever, I haven't messed with anything too much really
<csmrfx>
sbt?
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<GlenK>
but sbt can pull in whatever versio of whatever it needs and it all works and it's golden
<workmad3>
sbt is the thing used a lot in scala instead of maven, isn't it?
<GlenK>
sbt, some java thing
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<GlenK>
yeah, scala, java, same thing
<workmad3>
GlenK: not particularly :P
<csmrfx>
java rake?
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<workmad3>
GlenK: have you encountered bundler yet? that's a nice balance, IMO, between keeping things stable and being able to pull in the versions you need
<GlenK>
eh. I'm just trying to complain, and maybe help out some weird way with my complaints, in that gems are way suckier
<GlenK>
workmad3: nope. will give it a shot
<workmad3>
GlenK: bundler keeps track of the exact versions of all direct and transitive dependencies in a lock file, and then when you install from the Gemfile, you get exactly those versions
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<GlenK>
as I say, I'm pretty much sold on trying to keep the dev environment doing what it's doing
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<GlenK>
haha, but it still still bugs me with my sysadmin hat
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<GlenK>
bugs are meant to be fixed damn it
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<workmad3>
GlenK: :)
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<GlenK>
stupid devs should be doing regression testing or something
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<workmad3>
GlenK: IMO, the bigger crimes that devs commit are to be stupid with exposing hooks for logging and configuration ;)
<workmad3>
'oh, I always run this on the console... therefore 'puts' is a perfectly suitable logger' DIE DIE DIE!!!
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<workmad3>
'on my machine, my mongo database ID is always 1... so I'll hardcode that and not make it configurable' *sob*
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<GlenK>
well yeah
<apeiros>
workmad3: puts is an awesome logger!
<GlenK>
but then I'm glad my fellow computer jerks are lazy as all get out
<apeiros>
I wrote a library which hijacks puts and logs it wherever you want :)
<workmad3>
GlenK: and I've encountered much worse issues with dependencies on servers with java than ruby... at least since bundler came along :)
<apeiros>
ruby ftw
<workmad3>
apeiros: heh :) does it provide formatting options too?
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<GlenK>
, but then you'd never make [progress if dudes weren't lazy
<apeiros>
workmad3: OF COURSE!
<shevy>
the world belongs to the lazy
<apeiros>
workmad3: you can also funnel proper LogMessage entries through puts
<shevy>
why else do we have robots
<shevy>
I want logs in my pants
<workmad3>
shevy: the only problem with robots is that we don't have enough of them :(
<shevy>
workmad3 well soon we can 3D print them
<apeiros>
which have all the attributes a log message should have (time, severity, flags, message, origin, category)
<workmad3>
did anyone else see that the UN is going to debate 'the use of killer robots'...
<shevy>
lol
<workmad3>
I saw that and thought 'the use is pretty obvious, isn't it?'
<GlenK>
you guys are almost as good as freenode fortran dudes
<shevy>
the UN is a good debate club
<GlenK>
if you can make my irc client beep, then you win
<apeiros>
I love killer robots
<shevy>
AND member states have to pay for being part of the debate club
<apeiros>
they're easily defeated
<workmad3>
"I have a killer robot... I'm going to use it for flower arranging!...
<GlenK>
I'll give up #fortran forever
<apeiros>
just send wave after wave of men after them until they hit their kill limit
<shevy>
GlenK ok so your brain is fortran damaged
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<GlenK>
not that I have3n't given up fortran, lurch is gone. everyone is gone
<workmad3>
apeiros: I code all my killer robots with Bignum kill limits
<shevy>
GlenK you need to think of ruby less as programming and more like an attempt at poetry
<apeiros>
workmad3: still a limit!
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<GlenK>
shevy: haha, fortran is object oriented these days. ha.
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<shevy>
well what does that even mean
<GlenK>
haha, oh, and you don't have to type in caps and indent all weird
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<shevy>
it's like an umbrella term
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<GlenK>
I have no idea to be honest. because variable names like a and b and c make my head hurt to this day
<shevy>
what did alan kay say about object oriented!!!
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<shevy>
that's fine GlenK
<shevy>
I use _ in ruby
<GlenK>
and I'm just happy fortran made it so you can use pointers
<GlenK>
yo, seriously, no hating on fortran. random number generators aside, like my last job, high performance stuff and to this day fortran rocks
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<workmad3>
apeiros: I also reset to 0 every gazillion kills ;)
<GlenK>
fortran 95 is way advanced though and has pointers or something? 64 bit pointers is it? hell, I wasn't even born when fortran was invented
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<apeiros>
workmad3: that's unfortunate. I hope you don't delete the logs. so we can just wait for logfile overflow.
<workmad3>
apeiros: I log remotely
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<workmad3>
apeiros: even if my log server overflows, it won't take down my robots :P
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<apeiros>
oooh, great. that's a weakness. interrupt the signal and the bot dies. hahaa
<workmad3>
apeiros: nope... I code my robots to prefer losing logs rather than stopping the slaughter ;)
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<workmad3>
apeiros: just as long as no one uses my personal foible of evalling the log-server response in order to get into the robots and get them to change targets...
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<Hanmac1>
hey what do you guys think about Float#next_float ? ;P
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<GlenK>
as long as noone uses my code to make robots.
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<GlenK>
Hanmac1: I think stop showing off. that's fortran 2005? it's not even indented
<shevy>
+ if (len > (UINT16_MAX-1)) { /* UINT16_MAX is reverved */
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<shevy>
Hanmac, look! matz comments!!!
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<shevy>
I am unsure what reverved means
<shevy>
but at least I can acknowledge the effort
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<rethus>
I'm not familar with ruby. I got this message, while trying to install a redmine plugin: Could not find gem 'acts_as_votable (~> 0.4.0) ruby' in the gems available on this machine.
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<shevy>
how many methods should a project have at maximum
<shevy>
GlenK _why left ruby some years ago
<ddv>
shevy: does it matter?
<apeiros>
shevy: 4294967296
<shevy>
ddv yeah
<ddv>
shevy: why?
<shevy>
ddv after all it is said methods should not be too long
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<GlenK>
sure, that doesn't mean the legacy was lost
<shevy>
GlenK ok but it's living in the past :(
<shevy>
nobody will draw those foxes any longer
<GlenK>
shevy: lies. that's like saying watching office space is living in the past.
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<shevy>
and rails has transformed the ruby folks into uncreative beasts :>
<ddv>
shevy: you mean the number of lines a method consists of?
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<shevy>
ddv yeah
<ddv>
shevy: or the actual method name length?
<shevy>
ddv nono, def foo or def foo_with_sugar is same in this context
<ddv>
shevy: 10-15 lines
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<ddv>
shevy: maybe 10 is already too long
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<GlenK>
I blame you guys. nobody gave me any feedback on my madness, apparently it was too sucky to even try and understand though
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<GlenK>
hell, I woulda been happy hearing "jerk, that's no way to read a file".
<GlenK>
I like being called a jerk
<shevy>
GlenK well it's just different in different programming languages
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<shevy>
GlenK I mean, how many C guys do you know will use C for web-related hacking stuff
<shevy>
and how many folks actually know fortran
<GlenK>
ouch. the anwser is too many
<shevy>
not according to TIOBE!!!
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* Hanmac
could use C for web-related hacking stuff ;P
<ddv>
you can make big bucks if you know COBOL
<ddv>
all those legacy financial systems still run on COBOL
<GlenK>
some jerk was calling it cobalt on his stupid blog
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<GlenK>
I wanted to murder him
<shevy>
ironically around here, all the bank corporations use just about only Java
<GlenK>
because if you're going to talk crap about cobol, at least get the name right
<kazundo>
Hello there.
<shevy>
COBOL must be some US-bank thing
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<ddv>
I knew some guy past his fifties who was proud of being a COBOL programmer
<shevy>
GlenK do you know where from the word cobalt originates?
<GlenK>
nah, cobol is dead. apl had to be the big banking thing from my limited understanding
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<kazundo>
Can anybody write a code only for clicking a banner?
<GlenK>
J, and then K are then kings now, king is dead long live the king
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<Hanmac>
shevy: so you say that cobol is older than most cobalt's ? ;P
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<shevy>
"Miners had long used the name kobold ore (German for goblin ore)"
<shevy>
it's a goblin ore!!!
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<Hanmac>
shevy: yeah haemoglobin = iron goblins ;P
<shevy>
kazundo you have to use javascript!
<GlenK>
shevy: I just know at this point you're probably going to tell me cobalt is the actual name? nah, can't be. cobol and dudes spouting off on blogs?
<kazundo>
I would like to work with web programmer!
<shevy>
Hanmac but iron should be ferrum, not haeme...
<Hanmac>
hm somehow it still is both
<kazundo>
Is ruby suitable for that? shevy
<kazundo>
or Javascript?
<GlenK>
perl
<kazundo>
Perl !?
<GlenK>
ha
<shevy>
kazundo not really, I mean, you need an action that gets triggered when a user in your browser does an action, and this you can do only if the browser supports that, and javascript has a near monopoly there
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<shevy>
in *their browser
<shevy>
better to mix up the browsers than the pants
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<GlenK>
so wait, what? I hear this thing that the next iteration of perl is supposed to leap frog every other scripting language. anyone have any idea why that would even be a statement?
<Hanmac>
PS: shevy as a german i need to say that imo Kobold & goblin are different kinds ... ( even http://www.woerterbuch.info/?query=kobold&s=dict&l=en might still list Kobold => Goblin, but imo Imp might be more suitable)
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<shevy>
yeah you are right Hanmac
<shevy>
kobolds are mischievous cave dwellers
<shevy>
and would seem even smaller than goblins
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<tobiasvl>
GlenK: perl6 is pretty nice (and also it is still perl)
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<shevy>
they aren't hobgoblins either
<GlenK>
tobiasvl: wait, so is it just perl 6 I've been hearing about? odd.
<Hanmac>
shevy: hm arnt that dwaves?
<shevy>
GlenK perl is stuck in an evolution cycle
<shevy>
Hanmac nono
<shevy>
dwarves have beards
<dangerousdave>
I just happened on a way of making lots of money from a loophole online. Not illegal, just a bit scary really, $500 in 20 minutes
<shevy>
they are also thicker and more durable, did you watch the Hobbit? some dwarves were crap but the singing one of the misty mountains was cool haha
<dangerousdave>
ruby is surly a powerful tool
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<tobiasvl>
GlenK: yes, they've ramped up their PR department on selling perl 6 (which is still not completely finished as an implementation, although the language has been done for some time=
<dangerousdave>
and i realise that sound a bit like a spam advert
<GlenK>
I think perl has a bad rep because jerks always do one liners that involve regular expressions.
<shevy>
dangerousdave REALLY WHY WOULD YOU THINK SO
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<kazundo>
I am looking for a excellent student who can write web clicking program. While I cannot nor I don't have enough time to write them and fix them work.
<Hanmac>
shevy yeah but you said that Kobolds are cave dwellers too (imo i dont think that they go so deep)
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<kazundo>
Where shall I find such a person?
<shevy>
Hanmac then where do they live??
<tobiasvl>
kazundo: how much can you pay?
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<GlenK>
ok, it's decided then. I will now sleep. and then at some point become a ruby language lawyer
<GlenK>
except for the last part
<GlenK>
or maybe
<GlenK>
cheers
<kazundo>
Kind of mechanize.
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<dangerousdave>
shevy, yeah, I really am not joking though, just wrestling with the ethics of it.
<shevy>
dangerousdave sure sure sure I believe ya!!!!
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<kazundo>
In fact, my friend is really requires a automatic click program.
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<kazundo>
ddv: He wants to buy some old cameras before they would be sold out.
<shevy>
"Sawyer X is one of the core developers on Dancer, a Perl web framework inspired by Ruby's Sinatra."
<shevy>
wheeeee
<ddv>
kazundo: capybara?
<shevy>
ruby now even inspires perl copycats
<kazundo>
ddv: capybara? no.
<ddv>
kazundo: no what?
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<kazundo>
He needs thousands of cameras.
<shevy>
get '/' => sub { "Hello World!" };
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<shevy>
thousands of cameras
<shevy>
what is he doing, monitoring metropolis?
<kazundo>
for his business so that he might need to click to buy them all. ddv.
<benzrf>
d-dwarves
<kazundo>
He is a trader.
<ddv>
kazundo: pro tip: enter 1000 as a quantity :P
<ddv>
done
<oddmunds>
haha
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<kazundo>
No kidding, to buy one camera he needs to login and make a procedure.
<ddv>
maybe sould contact the seller
<kazundo>
It matters.
<ddv>
he* should
<dangerousdave>
shevy, i would love to share it with someone, it's quite clever if I do say so myself, problem is they could easily cut me out the loop. Also as it stands, the process is only 50% automated, and I think i need to route it through proxy servers because if the powers that be catch on, they will plug it quick.
<shevy>
dangerousdave no you don't want to share it
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<dangerousdave>
shevy, well, i feel quite pleased with myself, and the wife won't understand the beauty of it
<kazundo>
Anybody candidate to join us?
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<ddv>
kazundo: for free?
<kazundo>
No way!
<kazundo>
We pay a lot.
<ddv>
kazundo: Like?
<shevy>
Hanmac, why do the more recent gcc versions make so many stupid warnings?
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<Hanmac>
dont know
<shevy>
"warning: 'gtk_dialog_set_alternative_button_order' is deprecated"
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<kazundo>
500 dollars at least.
<oddmunds>
an hour?
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<Hanmac>
shevy thats not the problem with gcc, its a problem with gtk (let me guess, ruby-gnome2 problem?)
<kazundo>
No, for completion.
<shevy>
Hanmac it was just an example let me give you another one in a moment
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<shevy>
argmatch.c:59:23: warning: incompatible implicit declaration of built-in function 'exit'
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<kazundo>
How is it? 500 dollars a product.
<ddv>
kazundo: I think you want to start at 5K
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<shevy>
kazundo do you just randomly throw your money away
<ddv>
because shevvy will .collect
<shevy>
if I would have time perhaps!
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<kazundo>
It is not my money, but is my friend's investment and business.
<ddv>
kazundo: shevy will do it for 5K
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<kazundo>
shevy: really?
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<kazundo>
My friend is ready to buy it.
<ddv>
not sure how expensive she is :P
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<kazundo>
shevy: are you serious? We are of coure serious
<kazundo>
* course
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<kazundo>
shevy: are you alright?
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<kazundo>
shevy?
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<kazundo>
50K dollars is not enough?
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<ddv>
depends on project size
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<kazundo>
I told that go to a specified website, and type ID and passphrase, click and buy. over
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<kazundo>
I guess it is very short program for exercise for excellent students. Though I cannot have skill for that.
<ddv>
i'm sure even dumb 'students' can manage that
<kazundo>
True. ddv
<kazundo>
We are not programmers, but we need it.
<kazundo>
Do you join us?
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<kazundo>
If you are considering about it, I will send you my skype ID.
<jimmyhoughjr>
morning all
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<kazundo>
If you don't mind, I want to talk with you. ddv .
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<shevy>
kazundo as I don't have time it simply does not matter
<shevy>
kazundo and you should not allow others talk for anyone else
<jimmyhoughjr>
havenwood: I think its a great way to dive into a lang
<jimmyhoughjr>
I know TDD fairly well, but I’m an objective-c / cocoa programmer
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<jimmyhoughjr>
I gleaned a little bit of ruby from using frank-cucumber to do iOS UATs
<kazundo>
I'm afraid I am certainly busy. I don't know ancient Japanese mysteries and stories.
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<shevy>
kazundo hehehe
<jimmyhoughjr>
and since I got laid off, I thought beefing up on ruby to help with backend solutions might be good
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<shevy>
jimmyhoughjr what job was that? a ruby related one?
<ddv>
-off
<theRoUS>
in yard, is there truly no way to link to arbitrary labels within the current document? for example, adding a heading with '===' (rdoc mode, HTML output) results in a target prefixed with 'label-' -- but i don't see that there's any way to link to that
<jimmyhoughjr>
no I was doing iOS development for a consulting firm, worked there for almost a year and a half
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<kazundo>
Hey? If you don't care about our business, I quit this room.
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<kazundo>
This is his business seriously. He and I cannot write a code!
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<jimmyhoughjr>
so what is going on kazundo?
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<kazundo>
I am looking for a programmer and hire him
<jimmyhoughjr>
a ruby progrmmer I assume?
<shevy>
kazundo matz can program in ruby, I can, and so you can too if you learn it
<kazundo>
I don't concern languages.
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<jimmyhoughjr>
you might have better luck with a site like elance.com
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<kazundo>
I cannot. shevy .
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<kazundo>
I mean I want to hire some programmer.
<jimmyhoughjr>
irc isnt really the place to forge business relationships
<shevy>
yea
<DefV>
whynot
<workmad3>
kazundo: what salary are you willing to pay? :P
<jimmyhoughjr>
elance.com is a site that helps people who need programmers find programmers
<kazundo>
I know but I have no place to ask for
<kazundo>
50K
<jimmyhoughjr>
and helps make sure people get paid, and the services are rendered
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<DefV>
50K a month
<DefV>
that's nice
<workmad3>
kazundo: USD?
<ddv>
no japanese yen
<ddv>
LOL
<workmad3>
ddv: :D
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<kazundo>
USD, 50,000 dollars.
<jimmyhoughjr>
what type of work do you need done? I do iOS.
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<kazundo>
Sorry, 500 dollars..
<kazundo>
sorry...
<jimmyhoughjr>
I know a bit of other platforms, but I’m most productive on iOS
<workmad3>
kazundo: that had better be an hourly rate :P
<jimmyhoughjr>
sounds like a perfect job for elance, goto thats site, sign up and post your job
<kazundo>
$500 after the coding is done.
<jimmyhoughjr>
then you can see bids from porgrammers intersted in the job
<jimmyhoughjr>
and decide which one you want to work with
<workmad3>
jimmyhoughjr: wow, you're being generous... calling the people bidding on elance 'programmers'...
<jimmyhoughjr>
hehe
<havenwood>
ninjas*
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<jimmyhoughjr>
i hate elance, i neve could get a job from there
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<jimmyhoughjr>
but it is a better place to find soemone at his price point
* workmad3
is pretty sure that elance is just a re-rendering of clientsfromhell
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<ddv>
You won't find anyone for 500 US dollars
<axilla>
what is ||= in ruby
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<jimmyhoughjr>
on elance you can
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<workmad3>
axilla: equivalent to 'a || a = b'
<jimmyhoughjr>
the tighty whity operator!
<axilla>
thx
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<kazundo>
Okay, ddv
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<workmad3>
jimmyhoughjr: I think ddv meant 'You won't find anyone even barely competent for $500'
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<ddv>
exactly
<workmad3>
unless it really is about 2-3 hours of scripting or similar
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<jimmyhoughjr>
true, but i guess enough ppl are happy with that since thats all I saw there was people wanting way too mcuh stuff for the price
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<jimmyhoughjr>
like and android, ios and website all for 500
<jimmyhoughjr>
or “a simple game for android and iOS”
<shevy>
jimmyhoughjr people sometimes even buy whole corporations for $1
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<axilla>
that's because youre competing against the indians
<jimmyhoughjr>
like Smith-Corona
<axilla>
who will work for peanuts.
<jimmyhoughjr>
I know
<workmad3>
jimmyhoughjr: a lot of people on elance are from countries with really low living expenses that also have really poor international contract enforcement :)
<jimmyhoughjr>
thats why I was so glad to have FTE
<axilla>
i did a bunch of freelancing through odesk
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<axilla>
and i was able to get my price up to $35/hr
<axilla>
that's the highest i've ever gottan accepted at, and I have a good portfolio with 5* ratings
<jimmyhoughjr>
thats more than I made FTE, but seems low for contracting, at least for iOS
<kazundo>
How much in common?
<shevy>
axilla you use the past tense here?
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<axilla>
yes, I have a good full time job now where I dev and don't feel like doing it at night too
<shevy>
I see
<jimmyhoughjr>
most of the iOS contractors i know bill between 75-120 / hr
<axilla>
when I was freelancing i was working a management job and still had that desire to write code.
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<workmad3>
axilla: I do some evening work... but for about 4 times that an hour
<axilla>
workmad3: do you get it through odesk?
<workmad3>
axilla: no, I've never touched anything like odesk
<jimmyhoughjr>
i got burned out a little, but i got my groove back even before i got laid off
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<axilla>
yea, its hard to get a good price on those sites.
<axilla>
it benefits 3rd world workers
<shevy>
more power and money to them! ;P
<jimmyhoughjr>
im trying to see why a test is failing
<axilla>
they will work for $3-4/hr and some of them are decently good.
<kazundo>
I misread his price, 50K is correct.
<shevy>
cool
<jimmyhoughjr>
its been quite a conundrum
<shevy>
$3 per hour
<workmad3>
kazundo: 50k an hour? awesome :D
<kazundo>
No, 50k for finishinig up
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<kazundo>
* It's done then we pay 50k.
<jimmyhoughjr>
I’ve stepped through and seen the expected messages being sent, but the mock fails verifivation
<jimmyhoughjr>
what type of work is it kazundo ?
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<kazundo>
For a moment please.
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<kazundo>
Sorry, 500 USD is correct.
<kazundo>
He says.
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<apeiros>
you seem to be switching between 500 and 50'000 USD
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<kazundo>
Web cruising and automatic typing and clicking.
<apeiros>
I know it's only two zeroes difference… still :)
<kazundo>
Sorry about that , apeiros
<bklane>
I am getting requests that are with a .php at the end...how would I still render those to the regular page without .php?
<bklane>
(Client recently switched over from php site to rails)
<Lutece>
Sounds like you are after a survay bot or something similar?
<havenwood>
bklane: in your nginx or apache conf?
<apeiros>
bklane: with apache, write a redirect rule
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<benzrf>
i enjoy haskell's methods of error handling
<apeiros>
don't forget to add the relocated header
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<bklane>
havenwood: apeiros: using Heroku Cedar
<benzrf>
it's like a pleasant cross between error codes and exceptions
<kazundo>
Nobody want $500?
<benzrf>
kazundo: i could go with 500$
<benzrf>
*go for
<benzrf>
sup
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<kazundo>
Okay.
<benzrf>
what do u want
<kazundo>
I am going to send my skype ID. I detail the price, and etc... in skype, please.
<benzrf>
no thx
<benzrf>
i dont like skype
<benzrf>
and i dont have it on this chromebook
<kazundo>
What else?
<benzrf>
irc
<shevy>
benzrf is too shy to show his moustache
<benzrf>
which we are already in
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<benzrf>
shevy: sadly i appear to be completely incapable of growing facial hairyhenderson
<benzrf>
*hair
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<shevy>
man I would not want to grow hairyhenderson on my face either, that guy is dirty I tell ya
<benzrf>
:-D
<shevy>
<3 tab completion
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<benzrf>
sadly tab completion does not <3 you back
<benzrf>
=[
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<axilla>
hairy and the hendersons was an epic movie when i was a kid.
<havenwood>
bklane: .htaccess file
<benzrf>
:t (#.)
<benzrf>
oops wc
<kazundo>
Cruise a web, and we choose specified products, type ID, password, over.
<shevy>
axilla wasn't there some group
<shevy>
the hendersons or something...
<shevy>
that did only one good song, then died as a group
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<Lutece>
Automated product reviewer?
<shevy>
oh the hansons
<shevy>
not the hendersons
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<kazundo>
Hey? How is it? benzrf
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<bklane>
havenwood: I've never used .htaccess before...How would I only grab php requests?
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<solars>
hey, whats the "right" way to do a do..while loop in ruby?
<havenwood>
bklane: ##php would prolly be more familiar
<kazundo>
Nobody joins us? Okay?
<benzrf>
kazundo: what is it you want
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<benzrf>
kazundo: sorry im having a hard time understanding you
<benzrf>
kazundo: are you using a translation program?
<kazundo>
Automatic typing and surfing and clicking bot!
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<benzrf>
kazundo: like a web spider?
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<kazundo>
Automatic purchasing system.
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<kazundo>
Iteratively!
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<kazundo>
benzrf, can I call you?
<benzrf>
kazundo: sorry no
<benzrf>
but you can pm me
<kazundo>
Okay.
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<kazundo>
Nobody wants to join us?
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<toretore>
lol
<kazundo>
Then I leave here. Thanks.
<workmad3>
kazundo: o/
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<shevy>
\o/
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<shevy>
workmad3 and shevy do: \o/\o/
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<nwkr>
heheh
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<Hanmac>
for some new company i need an acc on microsoftonline for office365 ... the fun? i tryed to use a password with "ö" but it says i cant use passwords with "<>" ... => the interface used a different keyboard layout oO
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<xybre>
The gsub hash trick is pretty great though, I've only needed it a few times but its really handy.
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<gregf_>
%h = qw/ name ted greet hello/;local $_ = "<h1>{greet} {name}</h1>";s/\{(\w+)\}/$h{$1}/g;print; <== in perl
<gregf_>
but ruby is cool ;)
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<xybre>
Did a cat run across your keyboard?
<xybre>
And Perl 5 you could define a gramamr for it and make it easy to reuse and generate replacements based on local variables from where the gramamr is called.
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<xybre>
Sorry, perl 6
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<eam>
gregf_: the ruby equiv is a bit uglier imo: h = Hash[*%w{name ted greet hello}]; $_ = "<h1>{greet} {name}</h1>"; $_.gsub!(/{(\w+)}/){h[$1]}; puts $_
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<eam>
more weird magic symbols than perl, which is saying something
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<shevy>
hmmmmm
<centrx>
that's only one way to do it
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<eam>
both languages can write more clearly in the non-one-liner case :)
<shevy>
I haven't even parsed what is going on
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<shevy>
but
<shevy>
%h = qw/ name ted greet hello/
<shevy>
if that makes a hash then that is indeed short
<eam>
it's quote-word array to hash keys; then interpolate key into value when matched in {key} templates in a string
<shevy>
why don't we have a % in ruby to create hashes?
<hoelzro>
% doesn't create a hash; it declares a hash variable
<eam>
shevy: I'd prefer if to_h worked for a flat array, honestly
<workmad3>
eam: I quite like h = {name: "ted", greet: "hello"}; "<h1>%{greet} %{name}</h1>" % h
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<hoelzro>
you can have $h @h and %h in Perl; they're distinct variables
<eam>
h = %w{foo bar}.to_h # seems quite clean
<centrx>
except {name: ted, greet: hello} is shorter
<centrx>
that's the Ruby way to make a hash
<shevy>
hoelzro please don't confuse me man! :(
<eam>
to_h expects this crazy nested structure of [[k,v],[k2,v2]] which is nuts
<shevy>
{"name"=>"ted", "greet"=>"hello"}
<shevy>
>> {name: ted, greet: hello}
<eval-in__>
shevy => undefined local variable or method `ted' for main:Object (NameError) ... (https://eval.in/153573)
<shevy>
centrx man
<workmad3>
>> h = {name: "ted", greet: "hello"}; "<h1>%{greet} %{name}</h1>" % h
<eam>
workmad3: yes, see my code above with the lamentation of it being more magic/ugly than perl :)
<shevy>
workmad3 but qw/ name ted greet hello/
<eam>
h = ARGV.to_h # why not this?
<workmad3>
eam: it's not magic though... * turns an array into a parameter list
<workmad3>
eam: and Hash[] is just a method
<eam>
workmad3: sure sure, and % $ and @ aren't magic in perl either
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<workmad3>
eam: you could class the '*' bit as magic I guess, as you can't change what that means and it's somewhat arcane (but I think it's a perlism anyway :) )
<eam>
but when we talk about ugly symbols and syntax that make perl ugly, well, a lot of that exists in ruby too
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<centrx>
Who said Perl is ugly
<workmad3>
eam: Hash[] as a method for turning a list of parameters into a hash though... I don't see how that's ugly
<kke>
maybe i try fakeredis
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<havenwood>
kke: real redis!
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<eam>
workmad3: I'm not sure I should try to explain Hash[] vs #to_h in terms of aesthetics. I guess you either get it or you don't
<eam>
consistent ways of operating on objects is pretty important for readability
<havenwood>
kke: You mean how to test Lua from Ruby or Lua from Lua?
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<eam>
shevy: that's what we're discussing, in perl it's very natural to transition between hashes and arrays
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<shevy>
havenwood hehe I thought it makes a hash
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<shevy>
ok
<shevy>
how do you turn this into a hash in perl then?
<hoelzro>
qw makes a list
<eam>
%hash = @list
<hoelzro>
assigning it to a hash makes it a hash
<eam>
is how it works in perl
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<shevy>
eam huh
<shevy>
you just change one character?
<eam>
shevy: think hash = array.to_h
<shevy>
yes, this I can understand
<shevy>
but you used % and @
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<shevy>
aaah
<eam>
the $ % and @ in perl are sort of like compiler-typed hungarian notation
<kke>
havenwood: my gem uses a couple of lua things, maybe i can just stub/mock/something those methods and use fakeredis for the rest of it
<eam>
so @foo is only anarray object
<shevy>
hoelzro so perl kinda tries to automatically decide?
<eam>
and %h is only a hash object
<hoelzro>
%hash is *always* a hash
<kke>
like mock redis.eval
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<shevy>
aha, I think I understand
<hoelzro>
if you assign a list to a hash variable (ie. any variable with a leading %), the list is processed as a list of kv pairs and inserted into that hash
<eam>
$ in perl means scalar, which is essentially like any ruby object (a VALUE)
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<hoelzro>
and in Perl 5.20 (which is due out tomorrow), you can do this with a hash slice too
<eam>
and *splat in ruby approximates the natural behavior of @array or %hash
<hoelzro>
although I'm not sure you can actually assign to a hash slice, now that I think of it...
<cout>
perl5 is still under development?
<cout>
what happened to perl6?
<eam>
cout: heck yes
<kke>
5.2? i thought perl 6 has been on the works for like 20 years
<hoelzro>
cout: both are still going
<cout>
people need to just move on
<cout>
kke: 20, not 2
<hoelzro>
cout: there are lot of people (myself among them) who really like writing in Perl
<hoelzro>
I don't feel a need to "move on"
<xybre>
Perl 6 is pretty awesome.
<cout>
hoelzro: you mean really like writing perl5?
<eam>
cout: I do
<hoelzro>
cout: yes
<eam>
I enjoy it substantially more than ruby
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<cout>
hoelzro: just get over it. perl6 is way better.
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<hoelzro>
I like writing Perl 6 as well
<xybre>
Perl 6's reimagining of "regex" is really ground breaking.
<eam>
it's unfortunate that perl6 has the name "perl"
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<cout>
xybre: yes
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<xybre>
It's unfortunate that people still want to use Perl 5 out of habit.
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<xybre>
the Perl 6 community is great too.
<workmad3>
eam: btw, Hash[array] and array.to_h work exactly the same... they both require an array of [k,v] elements
<hoelzro>
there's a lot to like about Perl [56]
<shevy>
hoelzro which perl version do you use? both?
<havenwood>
perl11
<workmad3>
eam: but Hash[arg1, arg2, arg3, arg4] (which is not the same) will construct a hash from each pair of parameters ;)
<hoelzro>
shevy: I do work in both
<xybre>
Oh yeah and they homogenized variable type distinctions in perl 6 also, so the silly @ thing makes sense now. It's still perl so everythign is very context sensetive, but its better.
<hoelzro>
more in 5, though
<LiohAu>
guys, is this a ruby error : VerboseError: Unable to write to preferences ?
<shevy>
LiohAu not from main ruby I think, by the way do I know you?
<xybre>
LiohAu: It's not a Ruby core error.
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<LiohAu>
shevy: I already asked few questions here ^^
<LiohAu>
thx anyway, I don’t know where is this logged from ^^
<xybre>
Looks liek a "verboseError" might be in node.js.
<shevy>
LiohAu hmm not I meant from years ago ... probably there was only someone with a similar nick from #ruby-de or something
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<havenwood>
Javascript is meant to raise VerboseError, working as intended. :P
<eam>
workmad3: yeah - I wish #to_h would work with a single []
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<workmad3>
eam: it would be nice... but as I said, to_h is exactly equivalent to Hash[array] :)
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<workmad3>
eam: well, almost equivalent... Hash[] is more forgiving and gives you back an empty array
<eval-in__>
workmad3 => /tmp/execpad-6e675925fe8c/source-6e675925fe8c:2: warning: wrong element type String at 0 (expected array) ... (https://eval.in/153596)
<havenwood>
eam: each_slice(2)
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<shevy>
huh
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<workmad3>
shevy: you did * not %
<shevy>
hehe
<workmad3>
shevy: so you had an automatic syntax error ;)
<eam>
havenwood: I mean, I know how to do it, I just want to do it as easily as I can in perl :)
<eam>
shouldn't need a ton of chained methods, especially stuff like each_slice(2) which is going to be much slower runtime
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<eam>
ideally you're letting the interpreter know to do a list -> hash conversion and it can be fast
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<eam>
without wrapping in custom business logic
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* havenwood
goes back to slicing.
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<RubyPanther>
sigils in Perl create a context, %foo = @foo is like in Ruby if you could write foo.to_h = foo.to_a
<hoelzro>
except that %foo and @foo are completely separate variables
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<RubyPanther>
well, sortof
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<eam>
RubyPanther: no sortof, they are
<RubyPanther>
it _would_be_ foo.to_h = foo.to_a in Ruby if we supported the behavior
<RubyPanther>
pointing out irrelevant details of Perl doesn't change that
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<hoelzro>
I would argue that your example is more like %{$foo} = @{$foo}
<hoelzro>
(which wouldn't work)
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<eam>
foo.to_h = bar.to_a # everyone can be happy with this example
<hoelzro>
agreed!
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<jimbow>
how do we get the hang of test driven development
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<jimbow>
is it a good idea to start right off the bat with tdd for a complete neophyte?
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<hoelzro>
lunch &
<xybre>
I'm not entirely sure what the semantic meaning of foo.to_h = foo.to_a.
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<xybre>
In Perl variables are containers which can be typed, it is an orthogonal concer to the contents of those containers.
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<eam>
xybre: it's not a good fit in ruby, the ruby way would be a cleaner #to_h probably
<RubyPanther>
and Ruby explicitly rejects ideological orthogonality.
<eam>
which could operate directly on single Array objects
<eam>
(vs nested structures)
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<eam>
h = a.to_h # would be great, if it worked
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<xybre>
Ruby lacks a concept of array cursors. Which is funny, it was one of the very first questions I asked about in #ruby, and I explained what I was looking for poorly so no one had any idea what I was talking about.
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<Hanmac>
xybre: you mean like Enumerators ?
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<xybre>
No
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<RubyPanther>
arr.to_h works fine if it has the correct values
<xybre>
Very much no
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<RubyPanther>
>> %w/ one two buckle my shoe /.zip(0..99).to_h
<RubyPanther>
So I can tell the difference between something easier in Perl, and something bad in Perl that we Do Not Want and don't have because Matz chose not to have it
<Hanmac>
itsnt that cursor like enough?
<xybre>
Ah you mean the enumerator object itself, which is more of a stream.
<eam>
RubyPanther: we have similar backgrounds; you may be reading far too much into the decision to only accept a nested Array struture vs a flat Array in #to_h
<eam>
on the upside, it's trivial to add
<RubyPanther>
eam: how can you argue from ignorance that I must be reading too much into it? Perhaps you're reading too little into it.
<eam>
oh please let's not do this
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<RubyPanther>
My example with zip shows how easy it is to format the array if it is not well-formed for hash conversion
<yxhuvud>
I wouldn't mind matz stealing builtin support for CFGs from perl6. (though I'd wish tehy choose a more powerful implementation)
<_pingu>
how do I uninstall ruby 1.8.7 on suse 11?
<xybre>
I mean seriously you can't even move backwards with Enumerator. Only rewind to the begining like an IO stream, but with a slightly different interface for some reason.
<jxf>
_pingu: how did you install it?
<eam>
RubyPanther: which has substantial runtime impact
<xybre>
_pingu: consult SUSE's documentation for uninstalling anything else.
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<wallerdev>
hi
<RubyPanther>
in Ruby it is assumed to be harmful to "cast" things. We don't cast. We create a representation. If it is not well formed as a hash-shaped-array, we want explicit work to go into creating a well-formed version. It should have a #to_a method.
<eam>
the elephant in the room when it comes to ruby idioms is what it actually makes the interpreter do
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<_pingu>
jxf: somebody else installed it. can i find that out?
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<RubyPanther>
We're expected to write classes when we need new behavior, and not to just shoehorn everything into the base types like is done in Perl, and like you're wanting to do with in this case
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<jxf>
_pingu: if it's a system package, uninstall it like you would anything else; if it's a user-specific Ruby, like the kind you'd get from ruby-install or rvm, then use that tool to uninstall it
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<xybre>
RubyPanther++
<Hanmac>
xybre: yeah you are right, ruby might need special enumerators that support prev ;P
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<RubyPanther>
eam: No, that isn't called an elephant, that is called worrying excessively about the implementation, aka "premature optimization." Please don't imagine it is some mistake that Ruby makes, and not an intentional decision.
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<eam>
RubyPanther: you're confused, no one's talking about new behavior, just critiquing the existing behavior
<RubyPanther>
You can't understand Ruby as a pile of mistakes, because it isn't
<eam>
#to_h is existing functionality
<xybre>
Hanmac: Nah, its an issue with the underly implementation. Anything we end up doing would be a higher level abstraction on top of Array, rather than being closer to the lower level implementation that cursoring typically is.
<apeiros>
popcorn anyone?
<RubyPanther>
eam: What do you call a critique with no attempt at understanding?
<centrx>
a robot!
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<eam>
RubyPanther: I'd rather not follow you to the ugly place you're taking this conversation
<xybre>
Hanmac: It's clearly not impossible, but it would be bolting on functionality that is porrly suited to Ruby.
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<RubyPanther>
Ruby is not an "ugly place." It is a place where we wear Ruby slippers, and step with clear, careful steps.
<happytux>
This is frustrating... I try to install a ruby version using rbenv (but the problem occurs also with rvm) and it fails without further information: Installing ruby-1.9.3-p194...BUILD FAILED
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<RubyPanther>
We don't running off through the fields trying to express ourselves uninhibited.
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<RubyPanther>
[go]
<jxf>
happytux: is this on OSX?
<banister>
RubyPanther how is married life
<_pingu>
jxf: rpm -qa --last show 3 matches: rubygems, ruby and ruby-devel.
<Hanmac>
happytux: what isyour os, did you try newer ruby version?
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<happytux>
jxf / Hanmac: Debian Wheezy, I have to use this specific version.
<happytux>
jxf / Hanmac: Application is tested and locked to that version.
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<jxf>
happytux: when you say "fails without further information", is the last line literally "BUILD FAILED"?
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<mg^>
Probably missing a dependent library.
<mg^>
or headers
<jxf>
happytux: you don't see, e.g., a bunch of lines that say "compiling ..." or "linking ..."?
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<happytux>
right
<happytux>
I will post a link to a pastebin
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<jxf>
happytux: if you're using rbenv try adding --verbose
<jxf>
happytux: that should make it noisier and hopefully point out the issue
<happytux>
jxf: much better
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<happytux>
jxf: thanks
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<jxf>
happytux: np
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<mordof>
frameworks.. they're always so strange
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<RubyPanther>
class Array ; def new_to_h;zip([]*size).orig_to_h end ; alias :orig_to_h :to_h; def safe_to_h; orig_to_h rescue new_to_h; end ; alias :to_h :safe_to_h ; end ; %w( one two buckle X.X ).to_h
<RubyPanther>
>> class Array ; def new_to_h;zip([]*size).orig_to_h end ; alias :orig_to_h :to_h; def safe_to_h; orig_to_h rescue new_to_h; end ; alias :to_h :safe_to_h ; end ; %w( one two buckle X.X ).to_h
<happytux>
havenwood: I _should_ use the same ruby as the puppet system package uses
<havenwood>
happytux: do eet
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<havenwood>
happytux: a different patch version that works is better than the same that wont compile though
<havenwood>
happytux: or you could apply the patch from p547 to a previous patch release if you have the time
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<RubyPanther>
also don't be afraid to ./configure and make yourself, you just have to copy the flags from ruby-build or whatever. It is probably in the log what flags it used. Then you can choose what openssl to use
<happytux>
And I can't downgrade to the older openssl library because it contains the heartblead bug.
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<happytux>
ruby-install also fails
<happytux>
both, ruby-build and ruby-install fail.
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<RubyPanther>
You can't use old software and also avoid heartbleed in all cases. There are lots of cases where you need to go back to a pre-heartbleed openssl
<happytux>
What does he mean with the command: rvm --skip-autoreconf pkg install openssl
<RubyPanther>
I haven't looked at the specific version numbers for Ruby, but lots of software should expect to have abandoned versions if they had adopted any new features and weren't backwards compatible
<happytux>
I don't use rvm, I use rbenv
<happytux>
What does --skip-autoreconf pkg install openssl? Can I do that myself without rbenv/rvm?
<RubyPanther>
happytux: presumably it avoid running autoconf to regenerate the ./configure script
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<RubyPanther>
for a normal OS you would never re-run the autoconf
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<happytux>
RubyPanther: so this would solve the problem he writes
<happytux>
RubyPanther: but can I do the same with rbenv?
<RubyPanther>
by "autoconf" I mean "autogen.sh"
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<happytux>
RubyPanther: ok, so when I invoke rbenv install 1.9.3-p547 --verbose or rbenv install 1.9.3-p194 --verbose how can I let it call autoconf/autogen.sh ?
<RubyPanther>
happytux: No, that is just a flag that is useful on rvm. The only reason it would be different is that rvm has a different way of managing openssl (I don't remember how it does it)
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<happytux>
RubyPanther: so rvm doesn't use the system libraries but uses separate native libraries instead?
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<RubyPanther>
years ago I think it checked and used its own if you didn't have them
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<RubyPanther>
happytux: you normally would never run autogen.sh and running it won't help anything, it is the ./configure that finds the libs to use. autogen is setting up the platform stuff
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<RubyPanther>
for example the _only_ time I ever run autogen.sh is when it is pre-release software that doesn't have a configure script checked into the source
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<happytux>
ok
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<happytux>
RubyPanther: so rbenv (ruby-build) accepts a patch file. Is there a patch for the Ruby 1.9.3 series which solves this openssl problem?
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<RubyPanther>
happytux: IMO you should focus on getting the app updated and re-locked to a post-heartbleed version. I think the worst internet security problem _ever_ probably warrants an update. ;)
<happytux>
ok
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<happytux>
The point is that Puppet uses a system package provided Ruby and it is 1.9.1 on Debian stable. I want to use the same version when testing Puppet modules.
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<RubyPanther>
happytux: is there a reason to worry about heartbleed if you're just needing an old version for running tests?
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<RubyPanther>
I'd probably just build it myself and use whatever --configure options that ruby-build passes for setting the prefix and bin dir and whatever it sets. It is probably only 1-3 things.
<happytux>
RubyPanther: and how to make it available to rbenv?
<RubyPanther>
happytux: You just set the prefix so it goes into the versions dir, rbenv doesn't use any special magic
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<RubyPanther>
you might need to "rbenv rehash"
<happytux>
RubyPanther: so the different ruby environments are just in different directories in rbenv root dir?
<RubyPanther>
yeah
<RubyPanther>
but you need the bin dir set correctly too I think, so that gem binaries go in the right place
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<RubyPanther>
not sure on that, but the ruby-build log should show the options it gave to ./configure
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<RubyPanther>
"Alternatively to the install command, you can download and compile Ruby manually as a subdirectory of ~/.rbenv/versions/. An entry in that directory can also be a symlink to a Ruby version installed elsewhere on the filesystem. rbenv doesn't care; it will simply treat any entry in the versions/ directory as a separate Ruby version."
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<RubyPanther>
You might not even need any options
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<happytux>
RubyPanther: but why does building ruby manually work and using ruby-install/ruby-build fails for 1.9.1
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<RubyPanther>
happytux: Presumably because the tools don't have extensive mappings of what openssl versions work best with each historical Ruby version, and they try to use a newer version because that is usually the right thing to do
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<RubyPanther>
probably old versions get less use and bugs can creep in without many people hitting them
<happytux>
RubyPanther: ok, so I just get the source for Ruby 1.9.1 and ./configure; make and then put / symlink it into the rbenv versions directory?
<RubyPanther>
also openssl made API changes and instead of breaking compatibility completely with a new major version, they left it mostly-backwards-compatible. So most libs would have done somehting like "gtk2" "gtk3" "openssl1" but they didn't do that
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<RubyPanther>
openssl, in one of their many... unusual... development practices decided to push that complexity into the apps that use it instead of having to manage 2 versions themselves (or having to restrict themselves to a stable API)
<shevy>
Hanmac some people simply have too much free time
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<RubyPanther>
happytux: If you just unpack it into the versions dir you won't need a symlink, and won't have to remember not to delete it :)
<shvelo>
when I expected function to implicitly return the last expression
<shvelo>
and wondered why it didn't work
<shevy>
hahaha
<shevy>
ruby made you lazy
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<kke>
i made a gem https://github.com/kke/lockistics if someone wants to have redis based mutex type of locking + statistics of locking durations, invocations and what not
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<shvelo>
shevy, laziness is the key trait of a developer
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<MetalHead77>
Anyone know if it is possible to extract sponsored ads from facebook's newsfeed into your application?
<shevy>
and the glibc here is still a slackware leftover
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<centrx>
Doesn't that take a lot of maintenance time?
<shevy>
centrx yeah :(
<Hanmac>
shevy: newest debian trunk (experimental does have ruby2.1* as default)
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<shevy>
I mean, when everything compiles fine it is no real problem, but the moment something fails, and you have to investigate, it sucks away way too much time
<shevy>
Hanmac \o/
<happytux>
shevy: exactly, and this is what I fear most
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<centrx>
Hanmac, testing/unstable have 2.1 as default now too
<shevy>
the worst are problems for when there are no solutions available ;) and no patches either hahaha
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<happytux>
shevy: yes
<shevy>
happytux the good thing is that you can kinda peek at projects like homebrew
<happytux>
Or if you spend a lot of time getting something right and then you find out there is already some project which does this for you.
<happytux>
shevy: homebrew is not apt, right?
<shevy>
they are much faster than I am so if I can wait a day or two I just read up on what they do
<shevy>
no, apt is debian and I believe perl (and C?), homewbrew is ruby and osx
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<jrunning>
is there a kind of minitest assertion that won't halt the test case?
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<agent_white>
Afternoon folks
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<agent_white>
.ws
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<jrunning>
i have a test case with a few hundred assertions, and if a bunch are failing, i'd rather see all the failures at once than see them one at a time. does minitest support nonfatal assertion failures?
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<wallerdev>
usually you want to keep your test cases specific to testing one thing, otherwise you would use separate test cases right?
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<apeiros>
hi banisterfiend
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<jrunning>
wallerdev: i suppose i could do that. i'm just used to the google test framework for c++, which has both ASSERT_* statements for fatal failures, and EXPECT_* statements for non-fatal failures, and i'm surprised that minitest doesn't seem to have an equivalent
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<RubyPanther>
jrunning: having failures that don't fail would generally be seen as a misfeature in Ruby. In Ruby we don't want to agree to make sacrifices, and complexity is not seen as being pragmatic. The use cases, such as having a test that does a lot of different things, are assumed to have simpler solutions, like not doing as many things.
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<RubyPanther>
it shouldn't be surprising that we don't have it, because failures that don't fail are themselves inherently surprising.
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<RubyPanther>
and we don't want surprises that require a bunch of knowledge that wouldn't be attainable outside of the REPL
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<jrunning>
RubyPanther: thanks for the input. I'll factor down my tests and see how that goes
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<MetalHead77>
Willing to pay anyone that knows how to extract sponsored ads from facebook's news feed. Ads such as http://prntscr.com/3k5e4f. I aslo have a test facebook account already setup for testing.
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<apeiros>
MetalHead77: you pay for knowing? So I don't have to actually write any code? :-)
<apeiros>
</smartypants>
<shevy>
didn't we hear that before MetalHead77
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<terrellt>
I think I just heard something that might get me sued.
<shevy>
the smartypants thing terrellt?
<lethjakman>
is there a way to grab [2] out of a .match only if it exists?
<lethjakman>
otherwise return nil?
<shevy>
</dirty_knickers>
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<shevy>
lethjakman won't that already default to nil if it can not be foun?
<baweaver>
Justin Bieber was also number one in music at a time in certain indexes. Does that make him good?
<baweaver>
depends on the person
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<shevy>
is that a programming language
<baweaver>
don't put faith in those rankings
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<Nilium>
"tiobe says it is the second best" ⇐ Hold on
<Nilium>
TIOBE says nothing about quality
<Nilium>
The mountains of people using node.js are evidence enough that quality is not a factor
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<Nilium>
The other thing to keep in mind is that we've got a metric ton of websites out there. There's almost guaranteed to be more Javascript in use than any other language on the planet just because of that.
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<baweaver>
Wait until the next fad wave
<baweaver>
rails -> scala -> node
<baweaver>
who knows where it goes.
<Nilium>
Was Scala a fad?
<Nilium>
I got into using it last year as a Java replacement. It's been nice enough.
<baweaver>
circa twitter changing rails to scala
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<Nilium>
Reminds me a lot of early C++ though -- fair bit of code bloat
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<Nilium>
i.e., you'll do something and not realize, oh, it just generated a ton of code to do that thing
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<baweaver>
elixir and go look to be the up and coming ones
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<baweaver>
remember, you're a programmer
<Nilium>
I think Go's sort of peaking in terms of popularity right now
<baweaver>
that means not tying yourself to a language
<baweaver>
perhaps, but it has some momentum behind it
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<baweaver>
elixir/erlang got back in from whatsapp and fb chat.
<Nilium>
The concurrency stuff is neat, anyway, so I had some fun writing a few tools in it
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<Nilium>
It's useless for what I normally do though
<baweaver>
Clojure is the dark horse
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<Nilium>
I don't think anyone could get me on the Clojure train
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<baweaver>
It may take off, or it may suffer the lisp curse
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<baweaver>
paredit
<baweaver>
look it up
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<baweaver>
lighttable as well
<Nilium>
JVM startup time and all that makes it too painful for me to even touch
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<Nilium>
As for paredit, that's emacs, and just no.
<baweaver>
With Java like it is, and big data rising, I see it taking off a bit
<baweaver>
vim as well
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<Nilium>
I do game dev and other high-performance realtime things, so Clojure's mostly dead to me already.
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<baweaver>
rust and julia are coming up as well
<Nilium>
If I want a lisp, I'll use Gambit Scheme.
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<Nilium>
I'm not meaning to say Clojure is bad, by the way. Hopefully that's not what's coming across.
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<baweaver>
depends on the person and the field
<baweaver>
for me in big data, it's good
<baweaver>
considering most of it is in Java
<baweaver>
and Java is a nightmare...
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<lethjakman>
hmmm, I want a regex that matches from the beginning or the first % to either to the last ? OR end
<baweaver>
I lose track of how many languages I know anymore, it just stops being important
<lethjakman>
this is what I have: (%|^)(.*)\??
<lethjakman>
but it seems to always match to the end
<Nilium>
Also, speaking of Gambit Scheme, I really need to play around with embedding its generated code in stuff.
<lethjakman>
I also tried...(%|^)(.*)(\?|$)
<lethjakman>
trying to get it in the second register
<Beoran>
"The most notable aspect of Julia's implementation is its speed, which is often within a factor of two of fully optimized C code."
<xibalba>
baweaver, do you find that being an issue if you go to interview for another job and you dont know the particular language/framework they're working with?
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<lethjakman>
but it seems to always go tot he end.
<Beoran>
that makes me smirk
<Beoran>
they STIL can't beat c, after all these years... :)
<lethjakman>
anyone have any ideas?
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<Nilium>
I know enough that learning new ones, aside from those like Haskell and Erlang, should be fairly simple.
<keppy>
give catsbot a tequila shot
* catsbot
takes the tequila shot and POWERS UP!(BAC is 0.2)
<baweaver>
I can fake things easily if that's the case
<Beoran>
I'd rather use ruby, thank you, at least I get convenience for my loss of performance
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<Beoran>
vget mruby
<baweaver>
fortran beats it
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<Beoran>
write in C and embed mruby
<Beoran>
baweaver, for math yes, for io, no
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* combusean
did not enjoy his foray into fortran very much
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<Nilium>
Haskell and Erlang would both require me to learn a bunch of new stuff, which would be fun if I could find a use for them
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<lethjakman>
Beoran: it's pretty close to machine code...it's kinda hard to beat that.
<baweaver>
to be fair, I decided I wanted a job in rails, learned it in a few weeks, and got a job within the month
<combusean>
my last shop used erlang
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<Beoran>
show me a contemporary OS kernel written in Fortran and I'l be impresssed if it's as fast as a C kernel
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<baweaver>
I'm not a masochist though
<Beoran>
lethjakman, I rest my case :)
<keppy>
wat
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<baweaver>
off I go
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<keppy>
give catsbot a geobeer
* catsbot
should not drive but gets in his car anyway!
* catsbot
drinks a geobeer, (BAC is 0.21)
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<Beoran>
and you'll ssee the fortran compiler is most likely implemented... in C
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<Beoran>
as is Ruby and mruby
<Beoran>
C is brilliant in it's (relative) simplicity and speed
<Beoran>
ruby is brilliant in it's convenience
<benzrf>
*irs
<benzrf>
**its
<Beoran>
C + mruby is awesome (or ruby + c extensions)
<Beoran>
benzrf, my bad
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<keppy>
benzrf OED editor
<shevy>
note that benzrf even had to typo to correct you
<benzrf>
keppy: :-)
<keppy>
give catsbot a tequila shot
* catsbot
should not drive but gets in his car anyway!
* catsbot
takes the tequila shot and POWERS UP!(BAC is 0.41)
<tzorvas>
Nilium: now that i see it again it doesn't make much sense, i'm trying to refactor this : http://dpaste.com/3TZB0KS/ (line 5) into something sorter in method args
<Nilium>
'Cause I guess that's shorter but the mental overhead is greater.
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<wallerdev>
lol
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<Nilium>
My advice: just chop the line.
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<wallerdev>
its barely any code idk why you need to make it shorter
<wallerdev>
its just long variable names
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<wallerdev>
my advice: dont use class methods
<Nilium>
Updated it to include what I mean by chopping your lines.
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<Nilium>
I'm guessing it might be part of a module rather than a class
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<wallerdev>
then theres even less reason to use self
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<tzorvas>
Nilium: yes, this, thanks! I was wrongly called map with method
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<tzorvas>
i also did change tournament[0..1].map to simple tournament.map
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<The_NetZ>
Hey, is there some ruby command one could use to determine which system type its running on? EG, linux/windows/cygwin
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<eam>
The_NetZ: the RUBY_PLATFORM constant
<havenwood>
The_NetZ: RbConfig::CONFIG['host_os']
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<The_NetZ>
eam, ah, so like puts #{RUBY_PLATFORM} or something?
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<eam>
just puts RUBY_PLATFORM, it's a string
<The_NetZ>
ah cool. thanks
<havenwood>
The_NetZ: For implementations like JRuby the RUBY_PLATFORM will be "java", etc.
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<havenwood>
The_NetZ: Even if you're on Windows.
<havenwood>
The_NetZ: But RbConfig will be mswin..
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<The_NetZ>
havenwood, yeah, I get that. Just want to identify whether a particular application with an embedded ruby interpreter is true mswin or cygwin
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<The_NetZ>
very good. Not sure if RbConfig is available on this application, but thanks.
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<The_NetZ>
havenwood, eam, many thanks folks.
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<Lobosque>
when doing a http request, what else do I need to do in order to use https? I am settings use_ssl to true, but the request is still going out as http (checked in wireshark)
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