apeiros_ changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 2.1.2; 2.0.0-p481; 1.9.3-p545: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com || this channel is logged at http://irclog.whitequark.org, other public logging is prohibited
<sweeper> (allthethings)
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<kenneth> >> -10.5r
<eval-in__> kenneth => (-21/2) (https://eval.in/150834)
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<eshi> Hi, does anyone know how to get debug information from workers fired off by sidetiq?
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<Diranged> if I'm using provider.class.stubs(:foobar) to mock up a call to an outside executable, how can i mock its actual exit code so i can fake a failure?
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<Diranged> right now we use provider.class.stubs(:rs_tag).with(['--list', '--format', 'json']).returns(existing_tags) to mock a successful exit with some fake return data..
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<rkazak> so I have uninstalled rvm and going with ruby-install and chruby - so far so good.
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<Diranged> nevermind, i found the .raises() method..
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<rkazak> just installing 2.1.2 - any real need for the previous versions?
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<havenwood> rkazak: nope
<benzrf> rkazak: not unless you need to run code written specifically for 1.8 for some ungodly reason
<havenwood> nooooo
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<rkazak> :)
<shevy> benzrf there could be version 1.9x
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<rkazak> does ruby-install also remove?
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<rkazak> Hmm, I see there is a chgems - I guess I should install this to make the family complete ?
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<postmodern> rkazak, you don't have to
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<postmodern> rkazak, in fact you really don't need gemsets these days
<rkazak> postmodern: thanks.
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<rkazak> zkay11: bad.
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<wallerdev> that url title lol
<rkazak> I like the Gas Station part...
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<zkay11> haha, yes
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<zkay11> 333333333333333333333333333333333333333333
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<shevy> zkay11 not bad
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<rkazak> does chruby need to be installed under sudo? ruby-install was not?
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<havenwood> rkazak: `sudo make install` you mean?
<rkazak> yes.
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<rkazak> or did I go wrong by not using sudo for ruby-install ?
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<shevy> wimp!
<rkazak> :)
<shevy> if ruby-install was well written, it would surely notify the user
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<rkazak> with great power….
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<shevy> comes great money?
<rkazak> if only...
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<havenwood> rkazak: typically `sudo make install` with both, but.. if you need to do a local user install it is possible.
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<rkazak> havenwood: ok, thanks.
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<havenwood> shevy: gotta put stuff where FHS dictates, right? #setinstone #onetrueway
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<selina345> What is wrong with this code?
<Connie> i'm so glad kvirc looks the same in ubuntu and windows <3
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<rkazak> Connie: why line 1?
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<rkazak> won’t both i’s clash?
<arrubin> selina345: Many things.
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<selina345> wah
<selina345> that's the original
<selina345> and i'm supposed to
<arrubin> selina345: Consider:
<arrubin> >> 20.downto(1).each {|n| puts n}
<eval-in__> arrubin => 20 ... (https://eval.in/150903)
<omosoj> How do I use ruby to do searches of twitter?
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<selina345> arrubin: exercise just says to Add a line to your loop before your print statement. Use the next keyword so that you skip to the next iteration if the number i is odd.
<rkazak> selina345: change i to j. but arrubin is right
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<rkazak> in line 2
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<arrubin> selina345: No one writes Ruby that way.
<selina345> arrubin: please see
<selina345> and kindly advise
<arrubin> selina345: I believe you.
<rkazak> arrubin: it’s obvoiusly some some gentle learning path. Not that I don;t agree with you.
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<arrubin> selina345: What is the purpose of the underlines? Are you supposed to put something there?
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<havenwood> "#{i}" rabble rabble rabble
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* arrubin looks at the previous lesson.
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<arrubin> Oh, they want you to use loop do.
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<arrubin> selina345: Did you complete lesson 8?
<arrubin> The answer is far more obvious if you do.
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<arrubin> Although they seem to want to confuse you by using for in the example for lesson 9.
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<selina345> arrubin: yeah, youre supposed to fill in the blanks
<selina345> so the instructions on the side state
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<selina345> Add a line to your loop before your print statement. Use the next keyword so that you skip to the next iteration if the number i is odd.
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<selina345> arrubin: weird, i din't complete lesson 8
<selina345> nvm
<selina345> i get it
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<_lazarevsky> morning guys
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<_lazarevsky> I have written a function in ruby which accepts a file
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<_lazarevsky> iterates over it and and saves it to the db
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<_lazarevsky> this operation can take more than 15 minutes you see..
<_lazarevsky> I call the method using a curl script from the terminal
<_lazarevsky> I was wondering if there's a way to give instant feedback to the user while the program is executing
<_lazarevsky> ?
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<arrubin> puts?
<combusean> heh
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<_lazarevsky> arrubin:
<_lazarevsky> puts will only print after the method has finished
<_lazarevsky> I want to be able to provide instant feedback to the user
<arrubin> I do not follow. Can you show us some code?
<_lazarevsky> so basically I am iterating over the document line by line right?
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<arrubin> (Using a paste site)
<_lazarevsky> after every line
<_lazarevsky> I would like to tell the user "finished line n"
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<arrubin> _lazarevsky: puts is perfectly suited for that.
<_lazarevsky> if I use puts it will only print after the method has finished executing
<_lazarevsky> and I want to notify the user DURING the execution of the method
<_lazarevsky> I dont know if that's possible
<arrubin> I do not follow.
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<arrubin> It sounds like something else is buffering the output.
<arrubin> And I do not understand the involvement of curl.
<_lazarevsky> ok, I am sorry I think I am not explaining myself correctly
<_lazarevsky> please bear with me
<_lazarevsky> it's 4am here :)
<_lazarevsky> so
<_lazarevsky> the user calls a controller method
<_lazarevsky> and uploads a file via the terminal using the simplest curl script
<_lazarevsky> so far so good
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<_lazarevsky> then in the controller I get the file and start iterating over it
<_lazarevsky> ok?
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<_lazarevsky> now I would like to print "just finished iterating over line n" to the user, DURING the execution of the program
<_lazarevsky> if I use puts
<_lazarevsky> then puts will only be printed in the users console
<_lazarevsky> after the WHOLE method has finished executing
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<_lazarevsky> and not durnig execution
<_lazarevsky> I need something like yield
<_lazarevsky> which prints a message to the user and continues executing
<_lazarevsky> I dont know if that's even possible
<_lazarevsky> thus I find myself here asking the question :)
<happytux> So for summarizing some discussion done here: A ruby gem is the same as a tarballed checked out git branch of a git repository for the gem, right?
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<happytux> So one could always use the git repository (which is usually the case for most gems) instead using a gem?
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<havenwood> _lazarevsky: Huh? I can't think of any reason you'd have to wait until the very end to output to stdout. Gist some code?
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<_lazarevsky> havenwood: see stdout prints stuff in the servers console mate
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<_lazarevsky> havenwood: I would like to be able to show notification to the user..
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<_lazarevsky> havenwood: in their console..
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<havenwood> _lazarevsky: uh, is this a command line tool? rails? i have no idea what's going on. even a bit of code may reallly help orient us.
<havenwood> _lazarevsky: servers, users, what's going on!?
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<havenwood> :P
<_lazarevsky> haha
* arrubin is glad that he is not the only one.
<_lazarevsky> yea through a console, the user uploads a file to rails
<havenwood> aha, rails
<havenwood> okay
<_lazarevsky> that file is received by a controller
<_lazarevsky> where I extract line by line (its an excel file btw)
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<havenwood> the plot thickens
<_lazarevsky> and save it to the DB
<_lazarevsky> I would like to notify the user (print in their console something like "parsed line n")
<arrubin> _lazarevsky: Either curl or the web server is buffering the response.
<_lazarevsky> after each line
<_lazarevsky> and not at the end of the method
<arrubin> I also suggest a different approach for such a task.
<arrubin> Basically, queue the file, and return the job number. Then provide a URL to check the status.
<arrubin> Queue in a job queue that is.
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<_lazarevsky> oh I see
<_lazarevsky> that makes more sense
<arrubin> It is also likely that the data can be loaded much faster if you disable autocommit and wrap some or all of the INSERTs in a transaction.
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<pontiki> hallo
<havenwood> g'eve
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<omosoj> what's the best way to schedule to do a task every 10 minutes?
<mordof> omosoj: cron tasks if you're on a unix OS
<pontiki> cron, using the whenever gem
<omosoj> ok. so i'm just fooling around here... i want to write a program that gets the twitter trending topics every 10 minutes and puts them in a file.
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<pontiki> you could also just make it sleep for ten minutes
<omosoj> can i use cron tasks to do that?
<pontiki> maybe you should read the cron man page
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<omosoj> hmm. the whenever gem seems sufficient.
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<shevy> whatever
<shevy> gem install whatever
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<shevy> "A Ruby library that gives no f*ck."
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<shamoon> any awesome devs here solid with regex? /[\w\.@#\/\*]+/
<shamoon> what is the @?
<shevy> it most definitely is not a special character
<shevy> so it must mean literal @ character
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<shamoon> interesting
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<clayreed> Hello. I'm having a bit of trouble with the gem Jekyll. There seems to be some kind of disconnect between where rvm is installing jekyll to and where the shell executes jekyll from, and I'm not clear on how to correct this situation.
<shamoon> so it's any word
<shevy> >> x = "abc@"; x =~ /@/
<eval-in__> shevy => 3 (https://eval.in/150916)
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<shamoon> any number of characters
<shamoon> that ends with a /*
<shamoon> ?
<shevy> no idea
<arrubin> shamoon: No.
<shevy> do you know rubular?
<shamoon> then?
<arrubin> It is creating a character class.
<shevy> you can test interactively there http://rubular.com/
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<arrubin> Which includes word characters, periods, @, #, /, and *.
<arrubin> One or more of those characters.
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<shamoon> hmmm
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<havenwood> clayreed: What do you get for?: which jekyll
<havenwood> clayreed: Gist some more details?
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<clayreed> which jekyll returns /usr/local/bin/jekyll
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<clayreed> which gem returns /home/clayreed/.rvm/rubies/ruby-2.1.0/bin/gem
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<mordof> how would i use Net::http to get google.ca? i tried .get("google.ca", "/") but it's giving back a 301 moved (to http://www.google.ca/)
<clayreed> rvm only lists the one Ruby 2.1.0, but there is another 1.9 Ruby
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<clayreed> This 1.9 is the one references in the traceback when jekyll can't be found in the array of gems, which is the same as the one gem list returns
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<clayreed> /usr/lib/ruby/1.9.1
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<arrubin> mordof: Add www. to the domain.
<arrubin> There is probably a way to get Net::http to follow redirects.
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<arrubin> But in this case adding www. to the domain should do the trick.
<mordof> ah
<havenwood> mordof: you can manually detect response.code 301 and URI.parse the header['location']
<havenwood> mordof: but uhg
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<havenwood> mordof: can you use URI or an HTTP client gem?
<havenwood> mordof: seems nice to use something that can follow redirects etc out of the box
<mordof> havenwood: yeah, adding www. also worked - same with URI
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<mordof> i'll keep that in mind. i'm not really looking to do anything like that right now
<mordof> i just was confused about what to change.... even though it ended up beign really simple >.>
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<havenwood> mordof: oh, yeah the www is indeed the simplest fix ;)
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<gverma> hello
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<havenwood> gverma: hi
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<clayreed> The gems environment does not seem to reference the 1.9 at all, except perhaps in the Shell Path, but it does not contain /usr/lib/.
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<gverma> hi Havenwood I am planning on using ruby on rails for making a web app. I don't want to use the db migrate feature for making tables. Is that ok.
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<havenwood> gverma: #rubyonrails is the best place to ask probably
<havenwood> gverma: but sure, just take a look at what that rake task is doing and do it yourself or however you'd like
<gverma> Im trying to join #rubyonrails channel but it is not working somehow
<havenwood> clayreed: So how's the issue coming up. You're getting the right Jekyll bin but when you `require` it you get the wrong version?
<havenwood> gverma: nick reg required
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<havenwood> gverma: /msg NickServ REGISTER password youremail@example.com
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<gverma> ha! thanks havenwood
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<clayreed> havenwood: No, I'm not trying to require it or bundle it. I am trying to run jekyll serve --watch --drafts, but when I do...
<clayreed> havenwood: /usr/lib/ruby/1.9.1 ... and so on ... Could not find jekyll among gems, Gem::LoadError. Does this make sense?
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<clayreed> havenwood: It becomes like a bash command, usually.
<havenwood> clayreed: just curious, but what do you get for?: sudo which jekyll
<havenwood> clayreed: What OS are you on?
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<clayreed> havenwood: I'm running Crunchbang, a Debian-derived Linux... Curious, sudo which jekyll and which jekyll return the same path, /usr/local/bin/jekyll.
<havenwood> clayreed: You didn't perhaps install Jekyll with brew? I DCed before, checking what you said.
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<clayreed> havenwood: No, I installed it using gem install.
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<havenwood> clayreed: Did you previously have Jekyll installed on apt-get packaged Ruby?
<sevenseacat> gem install wouldnt put stuff in /usr/local/bin
<havenwood> clayreed: Seems another Jekyll got in front of the RVM one in your PATH.
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<clayreed> havenwood: That is probably the problem. I may have at one point installed an apt-get this ruby 1.9.
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<omosoj> I'm using the twitter api. How do I get the trends? All I can get is an Enumerable object
<clayreed> havenwood: How do I fix this?
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<mordof> huh? [Decode error - output not utf-8]
<mordof> when providing a string to raise
<mordof> hmm
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<havenn> clayreed: `rvm current` is as you expect?
<havenn> clayreed: mind purging apt-get's ruby1.9.1 from the system?
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<havenn> clayreed: i'm not an RVM user but might be good to ask why system gem bins are in front of RVM gem bins in your PATH in #rvm
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<havenn> clayreed: maybe make doubly sure you've updated RVM (rvm get latest) and have the correct Ruby selected
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<havenn> clayreed: ah, looks like mpapis is answering you in #rvm, go there! tell him apt's /usr/local/bin/jekyll from ruby1.9.1 is in front of RVM's bin
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<havenwood> mordof: utf-8 ALL THE THINGS \o/
<mordof> lol
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<ericwood> ugh there don't seem to be any xlsx gems that handle number formatting
<ericwood> that ruins this project....
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<ericwood> rubyXL was the best candidate but nope...
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<n_blownapart> hi someone helped me rewrite line 6 ' a,b = b, a + b ' to some sort of temp assignment but I have no clue how the math works here: pastie.org/9173966
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<pontiki> that's multi-assignment
<havenwood> or parallel assignment
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<pontiki> it saves you from having to create a temporary variable
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<pontiki> the only math going on there is a + b, which uses the values of a and b prior to line 6
<havenwood> n_blownapart: tastes like fibonacci sequence
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<n_blownapart> pontiki: ok I'm getting warmer... yeah havenwood 'tis
<n_blownapart> but when is a ever to b ?
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<pontiki> there's no test for equality
<pontiki> single = is assignment
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<n_blownapart> although havenwood I don't think this is parallel assignment. pontiki oh yeah that is such a screwy thing about syntax.
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<sevenseacat> :/
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<n_blownapart> thanks ! ^^ I understand.
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<havenwood> n_blownapart: `a, b = b, a` would be another example of parallel assignment
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<n_blownapart> havenwood: is a colon used with that in ruby? I was reading about python.
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<havenwood> n_blownapart: notice different result than: a = b; b = a
<pontiki> as is this: `first, second, third = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8].take(3)`
<sevenseacat> probably best not to confuse yourself with reading about python if you're trying to learn ruby.
<n_blownapart> sevenseacat: it was in an article that included like 4 languages
<sevenseacat> n_blownapart: so why are you asking us if we use python syntax in ruby? the answer will be no
<ericwood> we use ruby syntax :D
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<n_blownapart> sevenseacat: hold on ..
<n_blownapart> sevenseacat: because the article seemed jumbled to a beginner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assignment_%28computer_science%29#Parallel_assignment
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<sevenseacat> keywords 'to a beginner'
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<n_blownapart> sevenseacat: ok I feel diminished
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<havenwood> a wikipedia article jumbled.. noooo never! :P
<havenwood> they should just switch to word clouds
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<yottabit> $:.unshift File.dirname(__FILE__) + '/../lib'
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<yottabit> What is the .unshift portion of this?
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<havenwood> yottabit: it prepends the argument to be the beginning of the $LOAD_PATH Array
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<havenwood> >> [1, 2].unshift 3
<eval-in__> havenwood => [3, 1, 2] (https://eval.in/150928)
<yottabit> Actually, what does all of that do? :P
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<yottabit> THe $ loads external files iirc
<havenwood> yottabit: `$:` is shorthand for `$LOAD_PATH` which is a simple Array.
<yottabit> what's mentioned there i assume
<havenwood> yottabit: yup
<yottabit> I'm not sure why the dot (.) symbol is necessary
<havenwood> yottabit: you're calling the #unshift method on an Array
<havenwood> yottabit: in Ruby you do that with a dot :P
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<havenwood> >> $:.class
<eval-in__> havenwood => Array (https://eval.in/150929)
<havenwood> >> $: == $LOAD_PATH
<eval-in__> havenwood => true (https://eval.in/150930)
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<yottabit> so it's creating a path for the following stuff to run within
<havenwood> yottabit: You might prefer: $LOAD_PATH << '/a/string/containing/the/path'
<yottabit> the following being Command
<yottabit> or rather, iruby
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<havenwood> yottabit: When you `require`, Ruby looks to the $LOAD_PATH for paths where it might be, from beginning to end
<yottabit> require 'iruby/command' probably wouldn't work without it?
<yottabit> there it is then
<yottabit> that's why it's there :)
<yottabit> kk
<havenwood> yottabit: __FILE__ is the file currently being run
<yottabit> I'm needing to refresh my ruby so I can replicate what this person is doing
<yottabit> havenwood: i get the rest of it :)
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<havenwood> yottabit: in more recent Rubies, you can use: `__dir__` instead of `File.dirname(File.realpath(__FILE__))`
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<yottabit> I wonder which args are being passed its way
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<yottabit> line 6 of the link
<ericwood> >> __dir__
<eval-in__> ericwood => "/tmp/execpad-845bb712f1ed" (https://eval.in/150931)
<ericwood> :D
<havenwood> yottabit: You could for example also do: $LOAD_PATH << File.expand_path('../lib', __dir__)
<havenwood> which would but the path at the end of the load path array instead of the beginning
<yottabit> cool :)
<havenwood> but requires Ruby 2+ for the __dir__
<yottabit> Any idea where those args might be coming from?
<yottabit> ARGV seems to indicate this is being launched with arguments :)
<havenwood> yottabit: it's another Array
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<yottabit> where do you see that?
<havenwood> yottabit: see the shebang on line 1?: #!/usr/bin/env ruby
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<havenwood> yottabit: and it being in the /bin dir
<havenwood> yottabit: you use this like: iruby first second args in the ARGV Array
<yottabit> sure, but i'm wondering where the args are
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<havenwood> yottabit: it shellword splits and puts each item in the ARGV Array
<yottabit> can't figure out what exactly they are passing the iruby kernel
<havenwood> yottabit: they come from when you use it
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<havenwood> yottabit: and they get passed on to the new instance of the IRuby::Command class: https://github.com/minad/iruby/blob/master/lib/iruby/command.rb#L8
<havenwood> from when they become ethereal whisps
<havenwood> whence*
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<yottabit> i guess it's something like...
<yottabit> ipython --KernelManager.kernel_cmd="[ 'ruby', 'bin/iruby', '{connection_file}' ]"
<yottabit> where connection file are the args
<yottabit> i guess
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<yottabit> time for an email to minad
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<yottabit> Anyway, I guess I need to skidaddle
<yottabit> Thanks havenwood
<yottabit> adios
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<clayreed> Thanks for your help, havenwood. The combination of uninstalling the old ruby & proper usage of rvm allowed it to run.
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<rkazak> I forgot to ask earlier but why don’t I ned chgems now… :(
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<rkazak> ned==need
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<rkazak> I was curious to know if I should install chgems as I have just installed chruby…
<sevenseacat> what is chgems?
<rkazak> a companion to chruby…
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<sevenseacat> yeah im reading it now
<rkazak> so I guess it does the same for gems as chruby does for ruby
<sevenseacat> im not sure what the use case is for chgems
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<sevenseacat> no, chgems isolates gem installs on a per-project basis by the looks of it
<rkazak> Oh, ok.
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<sevenseacat> which just means over time you'll have many many versions of the same gems installed....
<sevenseacat> all for different projects
<rkazak> ok, like osx apps and frameworks?
<sevenseacat> and im not sure how it makes bundle exec obsolete either
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<postmodern> rkazak, you probably want bundler: http://bundler.io/
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<rkazak> postmodern: thanks, sorry for the trivial questions.
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<agent_white> Gewd evenin folks
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<agent_white> There we go. Hello all!
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* combusean looks around
<combusean> hi agent_white
<agent_white> combusean: Heya
<agent_white> Seems to be that time of the day, eh? ... Only a few more hours till the Euros are awake!
<combusean> agent_white, I'm in CA
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<agent_white> combusean: CO here :)
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<sevenseacat> the aussies were always awake
<combusean> oof
<agent_white> sevenseacat: I knew my sleep schedule was off when I started to hear Radar go "heading to lunch, brb"
<combusean> that braindead feeling when you context switch away from work...
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<sevenseacat> haha
<Radar> :D
<rkazak> NorCAL, CA!!!
<agent_white> combusean: I'm getting to opposite. Just took a 3 week break from the computer... oddly enough. Feeling energized!
<agent_white> s/to/the
<combusean> rkazak, SF here. =)
<rkazak> nice!
<rkazak> you going to the ruby meetup in Oakland?
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<combusean> i didn't know there was one
<combusean> when is it?
<rkazak> let me get the link.
* combusean fucking loves the bay area for this reason (amongst many others)
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<combusean> network locally on a global irc channel
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<combusean> hmm
<combusean> the east bay is so far
<combusean> i mean i'd be leaving from embarcadero
<combusean> lol
<rkazak> I am in Fremont….
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<combusean> i might
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<rkazak> ok, maybe see you there.
<combusean> i work day and night for a startup
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<rkazak> Hmm.. I am stuck at a legecy company
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<combusean> they hired me practically site unseen for a mongoid -> postgres upgrade and now i'm redoing all their infrastructure.
<combusean> s/now/instead/
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<rkazak> oh, interesting. they are moving that way…
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<rkazak> oh...
<combusean> mongoid doesn't scale, doesn't sort well, and doesn't do transactions
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<combusean> we have an unbelievable number of xl's serving not that many records.
<combusean> xlarge's
<combusean> and we need data out of it that sql just does better.
<rkazak> yes, there has tobe a better way. All this BigData stuff is still forming….
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<combusean> i think real big data is about hadoop and hbase but I don't know shit about that
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<rkazak> yes - hdfs looks interesting and the stuff on top, I am looking at that but don;t know much about it.
<combusean> one day i'll be a superninja and learn big data and mobile and frontend insanity and functional programming and java and ...
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<pontiki> meanwhile, got shit to do now :)
<combusean> seeya pontiki
<rkazak> people expect too much, IMHO, the depth of experience is unreal when compared to what they ask in breath
<combusean> thank freaking jebus i actually did real modern ops work at my last job
<rkazak> one of the other, that’s the general vs specialist divide….
<rkazak> :)
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<combusean> would not have been prepared for the market if i didn't have that on my resume
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<pontiki> nah, i was riffing off your thing, combusean
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<agent_white> pontiki: \o
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<pontiki> hey, agent_white
<agent_white> I've missed you! :D
<pontiki> awww
<agent_white> How are you pontiki?
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<pontiki> doing well, just got back from my daughter's graduation.
<agent_white> Good to hear, and nice! College graduate?
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<pontiki> master of divinity
<agent_white> Oh nice! Congrats! :)
<pontiki> ta
<pontiki> and now i am going to bed
<pontiki> gnite
<combusean> night night
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<rkazak> me too. tomorrow is an office day! - Night! sleep tight beware the ruby bugs that bite!
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<agent_white> Night!
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<Cymew> So, I've been told I have a REST API and I can thus control the webapp from there. Anyone have any pointers to some tutorial of what that means for me, ruby in hand?
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<GlenK> Cymew: there's a course on edx that just started up that's all about restful architectures among other things.
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<GlenK> rails is the platform. but it's mainly about not sucking when it comes to designing apps. ruby and rails is just secondary
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<Cymew> Thanks. Will look it up. Turns out that I was probably googlinf on too complex expressions. Just 'REST and HTTP' gave better results than including 'ruby' etc
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<lolmaus> So `.push` is actually `.push!`, it modifies the source array. How do i do the non-modifying push (return a modified array while having the source array non-modified)?
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<workmad3> lolmaus: ary + [item]
<workmad3> lolmaus: and ! doesn't mean 'modifies object'
<lolmaus> workmad3: thx.
<lolmaus> workmad3: it does most of the time.
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<workmad3> lolmaus: yes... when there's a non-modifying variant
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<workmad3> lolmaus: similarly, there's delete, not delete!
<lolmaus> workmad3: and due to that, you can't tell from a method's name whether it's modifying or not.
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<workmad3> lolmaus: ! isn't even intended as 'this modifies the receiver'... it's saying 'be careful, this acts differently to the version without !'
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<lolmaus> workmad3: still, if the bang was obligatory for all modifying methods, then you could tell from the method name whether it modifies the receiver, which is very convenient. And this would not ruin the "be careful" feature of the bang (for static methods, for instance)
<workmad3> lolmaus: and if code wrote itself, that would also be nice
<lolmaus> workmad3: your argument is invalid.
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<lolmaus> Is this even an argument?
<workmad3> lolmaus: ! being obligatory would mean that it would become so common it would be meaningless
<workmad3> lolmaus: it would just be 'oh, look, another ! on a method... it's really annoying that there are so many and I have to type ! all the time, I wish they just wrote this method without it in the name'
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<workmad3> lolmaus: and what do you do about operators that modify the receiver?
<workmad3> lolmaus: <<!?
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<lolmaus> workmad3: this is not true. It would be 'oh, look, another ! on a method... this method also modifies the reciever'.
<lolmaus> workmad3: are there operator-like methods that do not modify the receiver?
<workmad3> lolmaus: sure.. +
<lolmaus> workmad3: and except for +?
<workmad3> lolmaus: or ! itself... or &&, ||, -, *, %, ^...
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<lolmaus> Okay, i accept your argument about operator-like methods.
<workmad3> lolmaus: how about setters?
<lolmaus> workmad3: a setter is an operator-like method as well.
<workmad3> lolmaus: less so ;)
<workmad3> lolmaus: but ok
<workmad3> lolmaus: so... other than probaly 50% of the methods that modify the receiver, all ! methods should modify the receiver?
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<workmad3> lolmaus: and what about ! methods that doesn't modify the receiver?
<workmad3> bah, my typing just went to pot there
<lolmaus> workmad3: examples?
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<workmad3> lolmaus: exit/exit!
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<workmad3> lolmaus: and outside of core ruby, save/save! in ActiveRecord
<lolmaus> workmad3: isn't exit/exit! a static method?
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<workmad3> lolmaus: there's no such thing as a 'static method' in ruby
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<workmad3> lolmaus: methods are always on an object... just because that object happens to be a module (in this case, Kernel) shouldn't change things
<banister> ding ding, workmad3 wins! :D
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<workmad3> banister: :P
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<lolmaus> workmad3: banister: my point was that all non-operator-like methods that modify the receiver should have had a bang in their names. It would make them more explicit. The "caution" meaning of the bangs still stands. I don't see how a reverse example (already existing non-modifying methods with bangs) negates my statement.
<workmad3> lolmaus: it muddies the water massively
<workmad3> lolmaus: and gives two meanings to !
<lolmaus> workmad3: it does not give two meanings. The "caution" meaning still stands.
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<workmad3> lolmaus: why do I need to be cautious about adding an item to an array?
<lolmaus> workmad3: and i don't think that it makes method names more obscure, quite the contrary.
<banister> lolmaus ! is often used to indicate "this can raise an exception" vs "this handles failures silently (usually returning nil)"
<lolmaus> banister: okay
<workmad3> lolmaus: so it becomes 'this is either a modifying method, or it's a method I need to be careful with... or both'
<banister> lolmaus and has nothing to do with modifying the state of the receiver
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<workmad3> lolmaus: at which point I'm then checking the method docs, or method source, to see which it is
<workmad3> lolmaus: exactly the thing you were hoping to remove :P
<lolmaus> workmad3: doesn't the bang already mean 'this is either a modifying method, or it's a method I need to be careful with... or both'?
<canton7-mac> you should be checking the docs to see what a method does before you use it anyway ;)
<banister> lolmaus he'd check the docs to see exactly which one it was..
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<workmad3> lolmaus: no, at the moment it's 'this is a method I need to be careful with'
<workmad3> lolmaus: and apart from in some libraries that misuse the !, it also always exists with a non-! version
<DefV> I also assume doStuff! modifies the receiver
<lolmaus> workmad3: how would the meaning of the bang in "delete!" be different from the meaning of it in "map!" ?
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<workmad3> lolmaus: is there a '.delete' that makes sense that *doesn't* modify the receiver?
<banister> DefV and methods without the ! do not? :)
<lolmaus> banister: don't you see that if Ruby had a notation that could let you tell from a method name whether it's modifying or not, it would be beneficial for everybody?
<banister> lolmaus not really
<DefV> banister: depends if it's Rails or Ruby :-p
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<banister> lolmaus your use case is ! modifies the receiver?
<workmad3> DefV: .delete, .push, .shift, .unshift, .pop...
<banister> lolmaus what about methods that modifiy *another* object, but not the receiver, do they have a ! or not?
<DefV> workmad3: but those are obvious
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<workmad3> DefV: exactly! :D
<lolmaus> workmad3: all of those methods you named COULD have non-modyifing brothers
<workmad3> lolmaus: not particularly sensible ones in ruby, IMO
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<banister> lolmaus if you're just talking about side-effects and referential transparency, then "! modifies the receiver" is not nearly enough to be any kind of use
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<workmad3> lolmaus: now, if this was lisp, you'd have a perfect argument... and in lisp, ! *does* mean exactly 'this modifies in-place'
<lolmaus> workmad3: well, if there were "push" and "push!" i wouldn't come here in the first place asking how to do a non-modifying push.
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<banister> lolmaus you can always do a non-modifying push with dup.push
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<banister> lolmaus just prepend a dup
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<workmad3> lolmaus: see, I re-interpreted your question as 'how can I create a new array with an extra item'
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<workmad3> lolmaus: and answered that question... because 'push' means 'push this item onto this array'... it's nonsensical, IMO, in a non-modifying manner
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<banister> a non-modifying pop is equivalent to just array.last
<banister> a non-modifying shift is equivalent to just array.first
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<banister> netiehr of them therefore make much sense
<lolmaus> workmad3, "return a new array with this item included" is not a rare use case. And it's a shame that Ruby requires you to do two operations to achieve that (create an array with one element and merge arrays)
<banister> in naming or raison d'etre
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<tobiasvl> lolmaus: array + item
<tobiasvl> ?
<MrPopinjay> Hi guys. It is possible to use ftp in ruby without binding to a port? The openshift PaaS does not allow this
<lolmaus> Thx tobiasvl, that's much better. ^_^
<workmad3> tobiasvl: doesn't work :P
<workmad3> >> [] + "a"
<eval-in__> workmad3 => no implicit conversion of String into Array (TypeError) ... (https://eval.in/150976)
<tobiasvl> well [item] then
<lolmaus> :(
<banister> lolmaus really you're talking about referential transparency right? and declaring a method that is referentially transparent i.e a pure function?
<tobiasvl> >> [] + ["a"]
<eval-in__> tobiasvl => ["a"] (https://eval.in/150977)
<workmad3> tobiasvl: that's what I gave him about 15 minutes ago ;)
<tobiasvl> hehe ok
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<banister> lolmaus cos if you're not talking about that, you're only talking about one particular kind of side-effect, and just knowing when/when not that one specific side effect is taking place is not really so useful, you either go whole-hog to referential transparency or you don't, you don't go into some weird middle ground IMO
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<workmad3> banister: and in ruby, you may as well then save typing and say ! means 'referential transparency'...
<banister> just saying ! methods may do some kind of side-effect and non-bang methods may do anything they like, except that one specific kind of side-effect (i.e modifying self) is pretty useless
<workmad3> what about a Set, where adding an item may not modify the receiver? should ! then be further diluted to 'this might modify the receiver but might not'
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<workmad3> ?
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<DefV> workmad3: you're using stupid arguments to make your case
<DefV> I understand your point, but the Set example is a stupid argument
<workmad3> DefV: I kinda used up the sensible ones ;)
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* workmad3 goes back to re-uploading cookbooks
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<banister> workmad3 retires undefeated
* banister gym
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<lolmaus> I'm trying to convert a hash to a json string with `JSON.pretty_generate myhash`. The resulting string has keys sorted in reverse alphabetical order. How do i make them appear in ascending alphabetical order?
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<ringaring> i can't install this "gem install odf-report" http://rubygems.org/gems/odf-report
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<ringaring> sry my host
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<gruz1> hi
<gruz1> guys, could u help me?
<gruz1> dyld: lazy symbol binding failed: Symbol not found: _rb_ary_new_from_values
<gruz1> when i type 'gem' in my console on macos
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<vali> anyone here using podio ?
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<shevy> no
<tobiasvl> yes
<tobiasvl> but not for work
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<vali> tobiasvl, I was trying to get a count of tasks from the API and had some questions. But I got it sorted out.
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<ddv> lolmaus: why does it matter?
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<ddv> lolmaus: only insertion order is remembered, when you convert or whatever you can't guarantee it will be ordered
<lolmaus> ddv, i'm generating human-readable config files
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<ddv> lolmaus: extend pretty_generate so it does what you want, still it doesn't make sense to order hash keys
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<lolmaus> ddv: i don't want to order Ruby hash keys, i want the resulting JSON to be easy for humans to read and modify. Thx for the suggestion.
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<ddv> lolmaus: you think my grandma thinks json is easy to read?
<lolmaus> ddv: i don't care what your grandma thinks.
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<ddv> lolmaus: you are making an assumption right there
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<lolmaus> ddv: i make an assumption that it's easier for me to find options in a config file when they are sorted alphabetically than randomly.
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<shevy> ddv does your grandma wear panties?
<ddv> shevy: my grandma is dead
<ddv> you are so insensitive, shevy
<shevy> I still don't know the answer :(
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<shevy> so
<shevy> what are the new cool things in ruby
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<ddv> shevy: module prepend/refinements are pretty cool
<shevy> I still have not understood these yet
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<ddv> shevy: module prepend allows your mixin to override methods you define in the mixin, refinements to localize monkey patching
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<shevy> hmm
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<shevy> ddv I think I need some use case where people absolutely require that or make perfect use of it
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<ddv> shevy: when you want to extend (modify) existing functionality, for example a gem you are using
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<ddv> shevy: opening up core classes can be dangerous, refinements makes them save (sort of)
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<ddv> shevy: refinements take scope into account when monkey patching, so your monkey patch is only valid inside your module not your whole application
<shevy> hmm
<shevy> so rather than include Foo one would use prepend Foo
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<ddv> shevy: yes
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<wm3|busy> shevy: example demonstrating the method lookup chaing: https://gist.github.com/workmad3/031ea4dabdf38a2e25fd
<shevy> wm3|busy ok
<wm3|busy> shevy: but basically, 'prepend' allows methods in a module to shadow methods in the class
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<shevy> like a ninja?
<wm3|busy> shevy: I suspect you hate it though... as it's using modules ;)
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<shevy> nono
<shevy> I don't have anything against modules
<wm3|busy> :D
<shevy> I just dislike that subclassing and including are so similar in what they do
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<wm3|busy> shevy: stop subclassing things then? :)
<shevy> I can't :(
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<shevy> I get #new with subclasses after all
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<ddv> I would use inheritence if possible, unfortunely lots of gems don't use self.new
<shevy> is self.new valid syntax
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<ddv> depends in which scope it is called
<shevy> hehe
<wm3|busy> shevy: it's perfectly valid syntax :)
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<wm3|busy> shevy: but you might get an undefined method 'new' if 'self' doesn't respond to it ;)
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<shevy> yeah
<shevy> >> class Foo;def yo; self.class.new; end; end; Foo.new
<eval-in__> shevy => #<Foo:0x413b63ac> (https://eval.in/151044)
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<shevy> >> class Foo;def yo; self.new; end; end; Foo.new
<eval-in__> shevy => #<Foo:0x4077a354> (https://eval.in/151045)
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<shevy> huh
<shevy> I should call the method as well
<shevy> :P
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<wm3|busy> shevy: it would fail ;)
<wm3|busy> shevy: class methods aren't in the method lookup chain for instances
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<wm3|busy> right, lunch
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<Guilt> Hi.
<Guilt> For this question, I couldn't find a straight answer...
<Guilt> I wanted to generate test cases for a rails app and gem
<Guilt> i wanted it to be sort of a dynamic task, like a rake task
<Guilt> and it would ideally run before the rake spec task.
<Guilt> it would generate an alternative/shell version of rcov for most methods
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<Guilt> like, generates conditionals/shell test cases
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<Guilt> is there an utility to generate test cases automatically?
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<Guilt> so it's easy to fill them up and run rcov?
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<Guilt> Does that even make sense?
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<Guilt> I found rush check and rantly
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<Guilt> the first one is definitely not maintained.
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<ddv> Guilt: How would you generate test cases automatically? You mean tests?
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<Guilt> yes. like generating _spec.rb files
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<ddv> Guilt: Why would you do this after the fact?
<ddv> Guilt: shouldn't you write tests first?
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<Guilt> I was asking if there are tools to read the lib/ or controllers/ directory, generate spec_rb files with test blocks
<Guilt> and then you'd go about editing the rb files
<ddv> Rails has this by default when you scaffold resources
<Guilt> and for gems?
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<Guilt> also, the reason it's asked is that the application was generated by hand, without too many spec files.
<Guilt> and so, it's a mess. :-)
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<shevy> people always make a mess
<ddv> Guilt: you could have copy/pasted those files the time you took in here
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<shevy> Guilt fire the guy who wrote it
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<Guilt> ddv, it's got like some 100+ files O_O
<Guilt> so yeah, not exactly CC-able
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<ddv> you are a developer write some ruby that does it for you
<ddv> + 1
<Guilt> yeah. that was the last resort. ^_^
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<ddv> shevy: fire your ass :P
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<shevy> ddv leave my ass out of it!
<ddv> ok
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<Guilt> LOL. :-)
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<shevy> Guilt left
<shevy> probably too ashamed of himself now
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<shevy> he seemed very concerned automating tests
<ddv> well you shouldn't test after the fact
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<ddv> Guilt felt some guilt I guess
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<FukY> MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! 71930 MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!!
<FukY> 78575 THIS SPAM BROUGHT TO YOU COURTESY OF ALL THE F{}CKING FREENODE OPERATORS.
<FukY> F{}CK 27009 F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK
<FukY> F{}CK 76672 F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK
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<FukY> 18161 F{}CKERS 39130 F{}CKERS 4146 F{}CKERS 41162 F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS
<shevy> FukY you kid
<FukY> 5090 THIS SPAM BROUGHT TO YOU COURTESY OF ALL THE F{}CKING FREENODE OPERATORS.
<FukY> F{}CK 91420 F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK
<FukY> 98952 F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES
<FukY> F{}CK YOU ALL!!! F{}CK YOU!!! F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!! 92221 F{}CK YOU!!!
<tagrudev> much hax0r
<FukY> 4740 THIS SPAM BROUGHT TO YOU COURTESY OF ALL THE F{}CKING FREENODE OPERATORS.
<shevy> it's funny how he uses {}
<tagrudev> very spam
<FukY> 24219 F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES
<FukY> F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!! F{}CK YOU BITCH!!! F{}CK YOU ALL!!! 66514 F{}CK YOU BITCH!!!
<FukY> F{}CKERS F{}CK F{}CKERS F{}CK F{}CK F{}CKERS F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CK F{}CK YOU ALL F{}CKERS F{}CK YOU ALL F{}CKERS F{}CK YOU ALL 59822 F{}CKERS
<tagrudev> :D
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<FukY> F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! 8769 F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL!
<alex88> he should at least used B1TCHES
<FukY> F{}CKERS F{}CK F{}CKERS F{}CK F{}CK F{}CKERS F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CK F{}CK YOU ALL F{}CKERS F{}CK YOU ALL F{}CKERS F{}CK YOU ALL 6397 F{}CKERS
<alex88> :D
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<FukY> 2789 F{}CKERS 44510 F{}CKERS 56616 F{}CKERS 13743 F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS
<tagrudev> I like the nick name
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<FukY> MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! 77830 MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!!
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<FukY> F{}CK YOU ALL!!! F{}CK YOU!!! F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!! 9492 F{}CK YOU!!!
<mozzarella> you know freenode is not censored, right?
<shevy> we need to come up with someone to stab people in reallife via IRC
<FukY> F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!! F{}CK YOU BITCH!!! F{}CK YOU ALL!!! 28068 F{}CK YOU BITCH!!!
<mozzarella> FUCK
<mozzarella> see?
<FukY> F{}CK YOU ALL!!! F{}CK YOU!!! F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!! 9129 F{}CK YOU!!!
<FukY> 16873 THIS SPAM BROUGHT TO YOU COURTESY OF ALL THE F{}CKING FREENODE OPERATORS.
<tagrudev> shevy, nah I would be dead long ago
<FukY> 31628 F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES
<tagrudev> :D
<FukY> MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! 53440 MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!!
<shevy> mozzarella perhaps he is scared of some filter kicking in
<FukY> F{}CKERS F{}CK F{}CKERS F{}CK F{}CK F{}CKERS F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CK F{}CK YOU ALL F{}CKERS F{}CK YOU ALL F{}CKERS F{}CK YOU ALL 37271 F{}CKERS
<FukY> 58879 THIS SPAM BROUGHT TO YOU COURTESY OF ALL THE F{}CKING FREENODE OPERATORS.
<FukY> 57448 F{}CKERS 69943 F{}CKERS 9991 F{}CKERS 47582 F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS
<FukY> 43975 F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES
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<FukY> F{}CKERS F{}CK F{}CKERS F{}CK F{}CK F{}CKERS F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CK F{}CK YOU ALL F{}CKERS F{}CK YOU ALL F{}CKERS F{}CK YOU ALL 31732 F{}CKERS
<FukY> F{}CK YOU ALL!!! F{}CK YOU!!! F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!! 17807 F{}CK YOU!!!
<mozzarella> anyway, where are the mods?
<FukY> F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! 92159 F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL!
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<FukY> F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!! F{}CK YOU BITCH!!! F{}CK YOU ALL!!! 82536 F{}CK YOU BITCH!!!
<FukY> F{}CKERS F{}CK F{}CKERS F{}CK F{}CK F{}CKERS F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CK F{}CK YOU ALL F{}CKERS F{}CK YOU ALL F{}CKERS F{}CK YOU ALL 16019 F{}CKERS
<alex88> mozzarella: but some chan has bots
<alex88> *have
<FukY> MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! 25825 MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!!
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<FukY> 22293 F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES
<FukY> 63301 F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CKING BITCHES
<FukY> F{}CKERS F{}CK F{}CKERS F{}CK F{}CK F{}CKERS F{}CKING BITCHES F{}CK F{}CK YOU ALL F{}CKERS F{}CK YOU ALL F{}CKERS F{}CK YOU ALL 52128 F{}CKERS
<FukY> F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! 12204 F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL!
<tagrudev> :D
<FukY> F{}CK YOU ALL!!! F{}CK YOU!!! F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!! 38910 F{}CK YOU!!!
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<FukY> 65487 F{}CKERS 72454 F{}CKERS 56324 F{}CKERS 74433 F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS
<FukY> PHUCK U ALL! PHUCK U ALL! PHUCK U ALL! 50048 PHUCK U ALL! PHUCK U ALL! PHUCK U ALL! PHUCK U ALL! PHUCK U ALL! PHUCK U ALL! PHUCK U ALL!
<FukY> 13215 F{}CKERS 47078 F{}CKERS 83395 F{}CKERS 24819 F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS
<FukY> 16771 F{}CKERS 50699 F{}CKERS 53692 F{}CKERS 18605 F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS
<FukY> F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! 79212 F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL! F{}CK YOU ALL!
<FukY> F{}CK YOU ALL!!! F{}CK YOU!!! F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!! 68283 F{}CK YOU!!!
<FukY> F{}CK YOU ALL!!! F{}CK YOU!!! F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!! 50461 F{}CK YOU!!!
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<alex88> I don't get what's the number it outputs sometimes
<FukY> F{}CK 82532 F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK
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<alex88> K-lined, awesome
<Xeago_> alex88: probably anti spam
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<Xeago_> makes it's lines look different
<rdark> only seems to be in some channels also.. #perl, #ruby and #puppet out of about 10 that I'm in
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<alex88> well, I would have used different offences instead of numbers :)
<shevy> rdark that bot spammed in other channels at the same time?
<rdark> shevy: yep
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<shevy> that's good then
<shevy> because that way it gets banned faster
<shevy> :)
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<tagrudev> conversation starter
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<alex88> lol
<shevy> indeed
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<pontiki> morning
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<pontiki> oh my
<pontiki> someone needs to learn some new insults, i see
<tagrudev> mornign
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<pontiki> hi tagrudev
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<tagrudev> hello pontiki how are you today in that nonFriday day ?
<pontiki> rather sleepy still
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<shevy> pontiki!
<pontiki> g'day shevy
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<MrPopinjay> Hi guys. It is possible for me to convert a haml or slim template string into a html sting within my application? Something like new_string = Slim.parse("html 5\n div Hello world!")
<apeiros> MrPopinjay: yes
<MrPopinjay> How would I do this? I can't figure it out :)
<apeiros> for haml it's something like: HAML::Engine.new(template).render
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<apeiros> the docs help a lot with that ;-)
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<apeiros> (slims docs were less straight forward iirc)
<MrPopinjay> Yeah, I've been stumbling around the slim docs, but with no luck
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<MrPopinjay> Kinda want to use slim, but might have to go for haml
<apeiros> haml is well documented in that regard
<MrPopinjay> Slim isn't :(
<MrPopinjay> Maybe they have the same method, I'll have a look. Thanks for the help
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<evenflow> hey guys, im failing on running bundle install, can anyone assist? this is what i get: http://pastie.org/private/xtrvxtbxum6g5hf0r858g
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<evenflow> it says im issing libxml2 but i have it
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<apeiros> for slim
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<MrPopinjay> Christ, that's a bit wordy
<SidFerreira> https://gist.github.com/SidFerreira/42c4375d22a69b7f1ebd can anyone help me on that? Ruby is v 1.9.3 server is ubuntu
<MrPopinjay> Oh well
<MrPopinjay> Thanks apeiros , you rock!
<alex88> evenflow: run bundle config build.nokogiri --use-system-libraries and try again
<alex88> SidFerreira: try "sudo aptitude install ruby1.9.1-dev"
<apeiros> SidFerreira: installed ruby via apt? I'd complain in whatever channel deals with apt
<evenflow> alex, i just tried installing dev for those packages and it seems to work
<apeiros> and the rest what alex88 just said. apt decided to split ruby up into multiple packages. which causes your problem.
<alex88> evenflow: oh awesome
<MrPopinjay> I would not use apt to manage ruby
<evenflow> but thanks
<MrPopinjay> Use rvm for ruby dev
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<alex88> I solved that only in that way
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<SidFerreira> I tried to use rbenv too
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<SidFerreira> alex88: It worked, thanks :)
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<DefV> I dislike rvm on production servers
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<pontiki> same
<pontiki> i'm not using it in dev/test though either
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<evenflow> im getting weird error now: easy_alerts plugin requires one the following versions of easy_extensions: 2014.01.03 but current is 2014.1.4
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<alex88> pontiki: and what you use on prod?
<pontiki> i don't use a version manager in prod
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<pontiki> that's not to say my clients don't
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<pontiki> currently, two projects are using rvm
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<pontiki> another is using rbenv
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<pontiki> i'm pushing the IT guy to start looking at standard provisioning and deployment management tools besides that barebones capistrano
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<pontiki> their prod installations are pretty vulnerable right now
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<pontiki> all prod environments are *hand-built* and unmanaged/uncontrolled
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<evenflow> this is what im getting now: http://pastie.org/private/mj3y6xsduagf6uovdg9qw
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<alex88> pontiki: found anything good so far?
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<pontiki> alex88: for?
<alex88> pontiki: any semi-automated way to provision, maintain servers with custom ruby versions etc
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<pontiki> i am partial to chef
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<pontiki> i also want to spend more time with docker
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<alex88> me too, wanted to try also the docker support in AWS EB and deis.io
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<pontiki> i have to run, bbl
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<alex88> cya
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<lolmaus> Can i pass a proc to `.map`? In JS i'm used to: `myArr.forEach( myCallback );`. Is the same possible in Ruby?
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<apeiros> lolmaus: errr, of course
<apeiros> ruby blocks
<sevenseacat> thats kinda the point
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<apeiros> >> [1,2,3].map { |x| x + 10 }
<eval-in__> apeiros => [11, 12, 13] (https://eval.in/151173)
<lolmaus> apeiros: ok, how do i reuse the block?
<apeiros> and if you mean you already have a proc instance which you want to pass:
<apeiros> >> block = proc { |x| x + 10 }; [1,2,3].map(&block)
<eval-in__> apeiros => [11, 12, 13] (https://eval.in/151176)
<lolmaus> Ah, the ampersand thingie
<lolmaus> Thank you apeiros, you're the best.
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<sevenseacat> those thingies
<apeiros> & tells ruby to treat the arg as the block-arg. it must be the last argument and either be a Proc, or respond to to_proc
<havenwood> >> [1,2,3].map &->(n){ n + 10 }
<eval-in__> havenwood => [11, 12, 13] (https://eval.in/151179)
<apeiros> lolmaus: oh, also &nil works. it explicitly passes no block to a method (useful with super(&nil)k since super() still passes on a block given to the current method)
<lolmaus> apeiros: why is the ampersand syntax not mentioned here? http://ruby-doc.org/core-2.1.2/Array.html#method-i-map
<DouweM> apeiros: TIL
<apeiros> lolmaus: because it's nothing related to the method
<canton7-mac> lolmaus, it's not specific to #map
<DouweM> lolmaus: because it's not specific to #map, it's Ruby syntax
<apeiros> lolmaus: it's syntax which applies to *all* methods
<sevenseacat> didnt know about the nil block
<lolmaus> So wherever Ruby docs say "accepts a block", a proc can be passed via the ampersand?
<DouweM> lolmaus: ypu
<DouweM> *yup
<lolmaus> Thx
<apeiros> sevenseacat: not many do :-/ cost me ~30min to figure a bug with super passing on blocks even though having explicitly used super() to avoid arg passing
<DouweM> apeiros: that's very good to know
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<sevenseacat> i knew about super() to avoid passing the arguments through
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<apeiros> it's also how passing on optional blocks work: def foo(&block); @foo.each(&block); end # if you don't pass a block to foo, it'll return each's Enumerator, since you don't pass a block to each either
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<DouweM> sevenseacat: right, never thought about how to cancel a block
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<sevenseacat> ahhhh yes ive seen the enumerator getting returned before too
<sevenseacat> these things are clicking into place
<apeiros> i.e., block is nil, so you effectively do @foo.each(&nil)
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<DouweM> apeiros: in that case &nil becomes very obious. of course when &block makes block nil it shouldn't just crash
<apeiros> DouweM: that's how I figured the solution to super() passing on a block ;-)
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<FukY> 73140 F{}CKERS 76480 F{}CKERS 86790 F{}CKERS 94950 F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS
<FukY> 64965 THIS SPAM BROUGHT TO YOU COURTESY OF ALL THE F{}CKING FREENODE OPERATORS.
<FukY> F{}CK YOU ALL!!! F{}CK YOU!!! F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!!F{}CK YOU ALL!!! 59870 F{}CK YOU!!!
<FukY> F{}CK 38099 F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK F{}CK
<apeiros> oh dear
<apeiros> braindead is back
<FukY> 62641 THIS SPAM BROUGHT TO YOU COURTESY OF ALL THE F{}CKING FREENODE OPERATORS.
<FukY> PHUCK U ALL! PHUCK U ALL! PHUCK U ALL! 97144 PHUCK U ALL! PHUCK U ALL! PHUCK U ALL! PHUCK U ALL! PHUCK U ALL! PHUCK U ALL! PHUCK U ALL!
<FukY> 26549 F{}CKERS 6599 F{}CKERS 57829 F{}CKERS 47220 F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS
<FukY> 88621 F{}CKERS 31521 F{}CKERS 44598 F{}CKERS 30979 F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS F{}CKERS
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<hoelzro> seriously?
<hoelzro> that's how my day starts
<apeiros> lol
<Ankhers> That is how it has been on a lot of channels lately.
<apeiros> I'm a bit disappointed by freenode not automatically recognizing such spams and killing it
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<LadyRainicorn> I know, fuckers.
<apeiros> no, no
<apeiros> f{}ckers
<Ankhers> Well, the spam was brought to use by them....
* LadyRainicorn thinks Freenode needs strong AI monitoring all inputs.
<apeiros> LadyRainicorn: you don't even need AI
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<apeiros> some simple metrics across channels would probably already catch most spammers
<LadyRainicorn> You know if they really wanted to troll, they would have been like f{)ckers!
<Ankhers> Unfortunately, I usually see spammers joining a single channel at a time, join another a minute or so later.
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<mordof> i'll never understand the point... or how someone could get entertainment from that
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<mroth> so I'm looking at some old code that uses m= /\211PNG/ -- that seems to fail on more recent versions of ruby as "invalid multibyte escape" -- which appears to be because utf-8 encoding for files is the default now. I can make it work by forcing # encoding: ascii # at top of file, but I'd rather update the regex to work in Unicode... does anyone know what
<mroth> the equivalent format would be?
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<mordof> mroth: ae you trying to match the png extension?
<mordof> are*
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<mroth> mordof: yep
<mordof> \.png
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<mordof> mroth: you shouldn't need a regex for that either
<mordof> .ends_with?".png" would also work
<mroth> mordof: heh.. I should have specified. Not the .png file extension, this is the PNG header inside a binary file
<mordof> ah
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<mordof> well that's an entirely different dilemma.. lol
<phoo1234567> Hi All, any CSV experienced Ruby users here?
<mordof> i'd need to see a bit of code and input to help
<mroth> the \211 represents some byte values.. but I'm not familiar with that format of ascii escaping so trying to represent same thing in unicode
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<mordof> phoo1234567: csv is fairly straight forward.. what's your issue?
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<phoo1234567> I'm having an issue defining row_sep
<mroth> mordof: basically that regex is just used with .match in many places on a file blob
<mordof> ahh
<phoo1234567> One of my data fields contains newlines in addition to the _real_ row_sep.
<mordof> i'll be back soon - then if you're still stuck i can try to help
<phoo1234567> Thanks.
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<happytux> So for summarizing some discussion done here: A ruby gem is the same as a tarballed checked out git branch of a git repository for the gem, right?
<happytux> One could always use the git repository (which is usually the case for most gems) instead using a gem?
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<dideler|work> happytux: you can use a git repo as a gem, e.g. gem 'multimap', github: 'josh/multimap'
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<DefV> mroth: the solution seems to be to use Regexp.new
<DefV> Regexp.new("\211PNG")
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<LadyRainicorn> happytux: Not necessarily.
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<LadyRainicorn> (And never if you consider .git)
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<DefV> mroth: actually
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<DefV> mroth: /\211PNG/n
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<mroth> DefV: hmm.. yeah that should work for switching the regex. I'd still love to know how to represent the ascii encoded values in a normal Ruby string too though. I mean, there *should* be a way.
<mroth> (that's a good lead though, thanks)
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<DefV> mroth: I got intrigued by your question and looked it up, but I didn't find anything
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<xcesariox> can some help me out "Warning! PATH is not properly set up, '/Users/shaunstanislaus/.rvm/gems/ruby-2.1.1/bin' is not at first place,"
<canton7> I suspect your path isn't properly set up, because '/Users/shaunstanislaus/.rvm/gems/ruby-2.1.1/bin' is not the first element in the path
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<canton7> echo $PATH, see it for yourself
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<happytux> dideler|work: and the results (except the aux files (.git)), would be the same as installing the gem in same version?
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<xcesariox> canton7: where to edit the path?
<xcesariox> canton7: i don't see it in .bashrc
<xcesariox> canton7: neither in .bash_profile
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<xybre> xcesariox: Sometimes that happens to me, but things work fine afterwards. Try updating RVM.
<xybre> "rvm get stable" or "rvm get head" for the latest.
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<xcesariox> xybre: PATH is not properly set up, '/Users/shaunstanislaus/.rvm/gems/ruby-2.1.1/bin' is not at first place,
<xybre> You aren't supposed to set up RVM's path by hand, it won't be in your bash configuration.
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<xybre> I know what it says dude.
<xybre> You already pasted that.
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<xcesariox> xybre: i show you, you are not fixing the problem. its still the same.
<xybre> You didn't even do what I told you to do.
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<xybre> And apparently didn't read the error message either.
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<xybre> Which tells you to do what I said above.
<xcesariox> xybre: you told me to update it
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<xcesariox> xybre: you told me to get had.
<xcesariox> xybre: head"
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<xybre> xcesariox: The error message says you have a .profile, is that the case?
<xcesariox> xybre: yes
<xcesariox> xybre: what do i do with it? rm -rf?
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<xybre> There's also a .zshrc mentioned, do either of them have a line with PATH in it?
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<xcesariox> xybre: in .profile it has "PATH="$PATH:$HOME/.rvm/bin"
<xcesariox> xybre: let me check .zshrc
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<xybre> Do you "source ~/.profile" in your .bash_profile or .bashrc? That's what RVM suggests. Otherwise you can move that line to one of those (which one depends on your OS/setup)/
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<havenwood> xcesariox: so the .rvm/bin dir is at the end of the PATH...
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<canton7> xcesariox, sorry, was on another machine. looks like others have it in hand though
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<xcesariox> havenwood, canton7 : please look at my .zshrc https://gist.github.com/shaunstanislaus/972ded1d4e771b8989b1 edit for me and repaste it in a new gist and i will copy the right path adjusted.
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<havenwood> xcesariox: so you don't source the RVM script?
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<xcesariox> havenwood: what do you mean?
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<xybre> xcesariox: havenwood points out that "$HOME/.rvm/bin" should be at the beginning of the path. Which is what the error message says too.
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<havenwood> xcesariox: echo "source $HOME/.rvm/scripts/rvm" >> $HOME/.zshrc
<xcesariox> xybre: i am a noob to path environment, i don't know to take which part out and paste where or re-write as what. it would be great if you can edit my whole path with other env path and paste it in a new gist for me to copy and paste.
<havenwood> xcesariox: from: https://rvm.io/rvm/install
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<havenwood> xcesariox: PATH is an environment variable. It is a colon separated list of paths. You should read up on it.
<havenwood> xcesariox: I'm not an RVM user, but there's #rvm for help. But if you're new to shell I'd suggest following installation instructions carefully.
<havenwood> xcesariox: i gave you a command that updates you file, no need to gist things
<xcesariox> havenwood: yes it is working, linked.
<xcesariox> havenwood: thanks bro
<havenwood> xcesariox: de nada
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<xybre> I can't tell if you're using bash or zsh, but they both have channels too.
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<xcesariox> havenwood, xybre : can i comment this thing out in my .profile "export PATH="$PATH:$HOME/.rvm/bin" # Add RVM to PATH for scripting
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<havenwood> xcesariox: Then RVM wouldn't be in your PATH for scripting
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<xcesariox> havenwood: i am still getting "PATH is not properly set up, '/Users/shaunstanislaus/.rvm/gems/ruby-2.1.1/bin' is not at first place," when i do rvm -v
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<xcesariox> havenwood: how do you solve this issue?
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<havenwood> xcesariox: I'd suggest asking in #rvm.
<xcesariox> havenwood: okay
<havenwood> xcesariox: Also, read up on the $PATH environment variable!
<xcesariox> havenwood: okay
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<xcesariox> havenwood: where does the path starts , with the :bin ? or at the end?
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<havenwood> xcesariox: Take a look at your PATH maybe for starters: echo $PATH
<xcesariox> havenwood: bin:/opt/X11/bin: | /usr/local/git/bin: | /Users/shaunstanislaus/.ec2/bin:/Users/shaunstanislaus/.rvm/bin"
<xcesariox> is it like this havenwood ?
<havenwood> that looks pretty borked
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<havenwood> should be colon separated, not colon-whitespace-pipe-whitespace separated
<xcesariox> so which :bin/opt/x11 is together?
<xcesariox> or /opt/X11/bin: is together?
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<xcesariox> i use the pipe to ask you the right path
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<havenwood> oh
<havenwood> xcesariox: what is you actual current PATH?
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<xcesariox> havenwood: i did echo $PATH it says /usr/local/heroku/bin:/Users/shaunstanislaus/.rvm/gems/ruby-2.1.1/bin:/Users/shaunstanislaus/.rvm/gems/ruby-2.1.1@global/bin:/Users/shaunstanislaus/.rvm/rubies/ruby-2.1.1/bin:/Users/shaunstanislaus/.bin:/Users/shaunstanislaus/.rbenv/shims:/Users/shaunstanislaus/.rbenv/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/share/npm/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/opt/X11/bin:/usr/local/git/bin:/Users/shaunst
<xcesariox> anislaus/.rvm/bin
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<havenwood> xcesariox: can you see what's in front of '/Users/shaunstanislaus/.rvm/gems/ruby-2.1.1/bin'?
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<havenwood> just one thing...
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<havenwood> name it and the castle is yours!
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<havenwood> xcesariox: So your prepending of heroku/bin is screwing with RVM. Fix that. But just to show you how you'd prepend to PATH (which would mean rvm/bin in the PATH twice but you could see that it works): PATH="/Users/shaunstanislaus/.rvm/gems/ruby-2.1.1/bin:$PATH"
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<havenwood> s/your/you're
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<xcesariox> havenwood: so i take the last line out and make it as standalone path?
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<havenwood> just don't have heroku insert itself to the beginning of the PATH in the first place
<havenwood> i dunno
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<xcesariox> havenwood: okay let me try.
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<havenwood> isn't RVM supposed to automate all this? :P
<havenwood> xcesariox: rvm get latest --auto-dotfiles
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<havenwood> xcesariox: I'm sure when #rvm wakes up they'll be able to show you the RVM way of avoiding manually setting anything.
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<havenwood> xcesariox: but maybe try that automagical fix ^
<xcesariox> havenwood: haha okay , thank you!
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<happytux> dideler|work: and the results (except the aux files (.git)), would be the same as installing the gem in same version?
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<happytux> So when I packaged a gem, can I use a private ruby gem ("forge"?) to make them available locally? Or is a git repository also fine or even better?
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<dideler|work> happytux: re: results being the same. i'm not sure, but i assume so
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<agent_white> Afternoon folks
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<ftj> Anyone know of a site like cofounderslab, et al, that makes it easy for people to team up to work on side projects?
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<dideler|work> ftj: try https://assemblymade.com
<happytux> dideler|work: any advantages of using a gem?
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<dideler|work> happytux: you can have your gems managed by bundler
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<happytux> dideler|work: so bundler can't manage git repositories? or worse than gems?
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<dideler|work> happytux: back up a bit. i'm losing track of what you're trying to do. are you wondering if you should make your library into a gem?
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<dideler|work> happytux: or is this someone else's code and you're debating how to include it in your project?
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<RubyPanther> happytux: the advantage of using a gem (instead of bundler+git) on a private gem is to have managed releases from a private gem server. For example in a corporate setting where "private" users might be outside the development cycle.
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<xybre> Also explicit dependencies and indepdent development.
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<shevy> happytux in the old days before gems, people used a single file, called setup.rb
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<shevy> granddaddy shevy knows the old days
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<xybre> Before.. gems... no.. what..thats impossible!!
<shevy> it was simple!
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<shevy> I copy setup.rb, run it, then delete it - that's almost like a gem install!
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<mordof> RubyPanther: by a private gem server, are you referring to an actual software pack that helps monitor / manage the gems? or a single location? or what
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<shevy> mordof have you started finally on project number #3 ?
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<mordof> shevy: nope
<shevy> hmm
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<RubyPanther> mordof: gem server is a standard part of the gem software, it is a thing you configure as a gem source that the gem command uses
<mordof> RubyPanther: ah - right. i suppose that'd be similar to an apt repo?
<RubyPanther> but that isn't the important part of what I said, the important part is if there is an external release cycle with version numbers, or if users are just going to always be using the latest version
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<RubyPanther> if you have a release cycle, you want gem packaging. If you don't, then it is not useful.
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<mordof> ok
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<phat4life> does webmock work my metaprogramatically overriding Net:http
<phat4life> *by
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<lethjakman> is there a way to share an array to an innerclass?
<apeiros_> what's an innerclass?
<lethjakman> apeiros_: a class inside of a class
<apeiros_> lethjakman: that's an ordinary class
<lethjakman> oh. I read that the termnology was an inner class
<apeiros_> there's nothing special about a class being nested within another class
<end_guy> InnerClass.new(the_array)
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<apeiros_> so same rules as with every other class apply
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<banister> end_guy though if the array is in a local and you're closing over it u can use it in the nested class but it's weird
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<apeiros_> banister: hm? only if you use class_eval, no?
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<banister> apeiros_ Class.new do; end ya
<apeiros_> k
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<banister> apeiros_ silly tho u r right, cos u'd also have to have define_method in the inner class
<banister> so it wasn't a serious suggestion
<apeiros_> ^^
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<ayesian> hi
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<ayesian> has anybody implemented simple_token_authentication gem?
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<atmosx> hell-
<atmosx> o
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<ayesian> it's dead in here… dead
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* agent_white pats the crickets
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<makerops> im not sure what algorithm I should google, but the I have a piece of ruby processing messages off a mesasge bus
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<makerops> i want to introduce a time window variable, and if the messages are the same within that tim window, store them, and retransmit 1 message, at the end of the end of the time window
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<makerops> is there a specific algorithm, i should take a look at?
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<banister> apeiros what does Erscheinungstermin mean?
<apeiros> date of release
<apeiros> or publication
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<banister> apeiros in production information it says this: "Verlag: Springer; Auflage: 2012 (11. August 2014)"
<banister> apeiros what does that mean? is it 2014 or 2012 ?
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<apeiros> well, it says the book will be published in 2014
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<banister> apeiros then what's the 2012 about?
<apeiros> it's a bit odd because it says 2012 edition
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<apeiros> yeah, no idea. seems odd :)
<banister> apeiros is it a book you'd be interested in buying?
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<banister> wait, 74 euros
<banister> no thx
<apeiros> haha :)
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<apeiros> no, I don't think I'd buy this
<banister> apeiros im interested becaus there was a popular blog article today saying everyone is doing API all wrong
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<banister> and referred a lot to leslie lamport and theoretical stuff on distributed systems
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<RubyPanther> rb_funcall(rb_mCricket,rb_intern("to_s"), 0);
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<atmosx> rb_mCricket?
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<atmosx> RubyPanther: why the rb then the snake_case and then the camel case?:-P
<atmosx> RubyPanther: is it a signature nomeclature?
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<RubyPanther> atmosx: because that is how naming happens in C
<atmosx> RubyPanther: haha, I can tell... I was about to say that if I didn't knew I'd say it was c code :-)
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<RubyPanther> The joke was that I was naming the class rb_mCricket at if Cricket was a core Ruby module
<atmosx> RubyPanther: and I'm not a C programmer, I never wrote anything I can recall in C
<RubyPanther> "as if'
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<atmosx> heh, can you name a class starting with a small letter? :-) IIRC you cant
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<theRoUS> how can i link to a section ID? e.g., i have a '# === FooBar' which creates an 'id="label-FooBar"' attribute. how can i link to #label-FooBar in the straight inline ruby documentation?
<theRoUS> sorry, that's a question about yard
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<RubyPanther> atmosx: from the Ruby C API a class is stored in a VALUE and so is a normal variable which gets named with a lowercase at the front. The same as on the Ruby side if you say klass = Class.new you wouldn't want to say Klass = Class.new (hopefully)
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<atmosx> RubyPanther: ah true
<bricker> Is there something wrong with using class_exec rather than class_eval? I almost never see class_exec
<bricker> I guess because you can't have dynamically-named methods with class_exec
<musashi1> these pretzels are makin' me thirsty
<vpretzel|1493> did someone say pretzels?
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<musashi1> lol
<vpretzel|1493> :)
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<RubyPanther> bricker: thankfully I almost never see either. I think the main thing is, you wouldn't want to use it unless you had to, and class_eval already gets the work-around accomplished. As such, I don't even need to know what class_exec does, and I wouldn't try to remember without having already hit the use case myself
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<bricker> RubyPanther: same as class_eval but it takes ruby code instead of a strong
<bricker> string*
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<ericwood> strang
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<RubyPanther> doesn't class_eval take a block already? I mean that is the use case. Using it with a string is a WTF outside of a REPL
<RubyPanther> same as any eval. We have send, we don't have to commit that sin.
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<apeiros> outside of REPL it's "I don't want a closure" and "it's faster, so for often used methods I'll use it"
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<apeiros> at least that was true until 1.9, haven't tested in 2.1
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<apeiros> bricker: the difference between class_exec and class_eval is that the former can pass arguments
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<apeiros> other than that, there isn't any really
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<apeiros> ah, right, class_exec can't be used with string code, but you discussed that already :)
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<banister> apeiros i always just use class_exec, class_eval has some weird edge cases
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<apeiros> uh, the same as class_exec? or mind telling me one where it differs?
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<banister> apeiros class_eval actually takes an optional parameter which passes in self, this means that you can't pass a lambda into class_eval
<banister> apeiros cos if you pass in a lambda the arity won't match up, since class_eval actually has an arity of 1
<RubyPanther> if you don't want a closure that is fine, but if you use methods that do one thing then you don't keep a closure around. And if the inside of the closure just calls a method, and you don't create or use any locals, then there is no reason to fear it.
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<apeiros> banister: it's not an optional parameter
<banister> but a lambda will have an arity of 0
<apeiros> class_eval always passes it
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<banister> apeiros ok, you know what i mean :)
<apeiros> and yes, you can pass a lambda in. but it has to accept an argument
<apeiros> so not really an edge-case
<apeiros> (also, when on earth do you *ever* pass a lambda to an _eval?)
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<apeiros> banister: same with class_exec - if you call it with arg count which doesn't match your lambda
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<apeiros> >> Array.class_exec(1,2,3, &lambda { foo })
<eval-in__> apeiros => wrong number of arguments (3 for 0) (ArgumentError) ... (https://eval.in/151318)
<RubyPanther> 99% of the use cases for lambdas are effectively, "well I like them better"
<apeiros> RubyPanther: sadly yes. proper use case would be: I want to enforce arity
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<apeiros> oh, and sometimes its different flow control
<RubyPanther> apeiros: which is generally dubious in a language without argument-based method overloading
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<apeiros> RubyPanther: don't think so. it's closer to how methods work.
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<apeiros> i.e., proc is the block equivalent, lambda the method equivalent.
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<RubyPanther> right, people don't need it but they use it because they have some vision of the semantics where it would be different. But those semantics are never quite Ruby semantics anyways.
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<nhmood> i have a hash with some parameters => nil, and others with arrays
<banister> apeiros it's an edge-case to me because passing in a &proc of arity 0 will work with class_eval in the way i expect (i know about the arg but i often forget it since i never ever use it - same with everyone else i'm sure), yet a &lambda of arity 0 will not work. Even though I and other people ought to know and be wary of the arg passed from class_eval to the block, i would say most people forget about it or are unware as the 99.99%
<banister> case is passing in an arg-less block. So to class_eval a lambda in the way i class_eval a typical proc (of 0 arity, which is by far the common case) requires me to add an extra, unused arg to the lambda
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<nhmood> i want to go through this array and look at each array item assuming it isn't nil
<apeiros> banister: if it's an edge-case, it's the precisely same as for lambda
<apeiros> *as for class_exec
<nhmood> currently i have something like hash[parameter].each .... end unless hash[parameter].nil?
<apeiros> anyway, is that the only one?
<nhmood> is there a better way to do this
<banister> apeiros I disagree cos in the case of class_exec yu're explicitly passing the args, so it's easier to be aware of it, but in the case of class_eval the arg is passed implicitly
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<banister> and it's extremely easy to forget it
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<banister> ya that's the only one
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<apeiros> banister: class_eval is explicitly passing the args too
<apeiros> it's always guaranteed to be 1
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<RubyPanther> nhmood: It is a lot cleaner if you just use an if block, instead of postfix-ing the condition
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<mumin> Hello
<banister> apeiros i mean the user is explicitly passing the arg
<mg^^> opts.each_pair do |k,v| next if k.nil? ...
* apeiros just now noted that bricker got replaced by banister :D
<RubyPanther> postfixed conditions are good, but only on single lines of code
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<mg^^> er, v.nil?
<mg^^> sheesh
<banister> apeiros in the case of class_exec, but in the case of class_eval the method is doing it behind the scenes
<banister> apeiros but let's agree to disagree, it's a trivial argument ;)
<nhmood> RubyPanther: yeah you have a good point, it is a little hard to read
<nhmood> mg^^: that is an interesting approach, i'll take a look
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<nhmood> thanks guys!
<shevy> without googling
<shevy> what is the maximum length of an URL
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<mg^^> yeah I'm a Ruby noob so it might not be the best way
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<mg^^> but it's what I'd do
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<RubyPanther> shevy: I'm going to go with ~1000 chars
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<RubyPanther> The full HTTP request should fit into a single packet in all cases
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<nhmood> mg^^: the next if worked out well in my scenario, thanks!
<mg^^> no prob
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<mumin> Is it possible to make a ruby application in Linux and use it in windows graphics wise
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<shevy> RubyPanther not bad, it's longer than that but I appreciate that you didn't google
<apeiros> banister: k
<mg^^> I always feel like I am getting a handle on something when I can start helping other people with it
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<mumin> There wont be any differences in cross platform experience
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<aarkerio> hi! I see a class with the method: def self.ADD_ACTION ; "add" ; end any idea what is for?
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<mumin> Can anyone address my question
<RubyPanther> shevy: google says 2083 for IE, I'm just happy to have been within an order of magnitude without searching
<arrubin> mumin: That depends on the graphics library, but generally, it is possible.
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<RubyPanther> I don't do anything more complicated than tying my shoes without having the manual open
<shevy> hehe
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<mumin> Wat library would u use
<musashi1> I feel like that's good policy
<shevy> aarkerio this is a class method, it returns a string called "add"
<musashi1> What if a manual doesn't exist?
<arrubin> mumin: I do not know which libraries are popular in the Ruby world.
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<RubyPanther> mumin: I develop on linux using Ruby Gtk and it works perfectly on windows
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<shevy> RubyPanther is the only guy other than me who uses ruby gtk here
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<RubyPanther> mumin: even things like tray apps work as expected. I haven't had a platform-specific bug in over 10 years
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<RubyPanther> as a rule I do not need to test in windows, I can test in linux and go to the client's windows machine, and using the "one-click" installer and their "dev kit", it will "just work." That is true even for C extensions.
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<aarkerio> shevy, thanks!
<mumin> Thank ya
<ayesian> anybody feel like tackling a devise token issue?
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<jailbot> hi friends
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<jailbot> why would you want to use hash.fetch(:one) instead of hash[:one]
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<ericwood> >> {}.fetch(:lol)
<eval-in__> ericwood => key not found: :lol (KeyError) ... (https://eval.in/151327)
<ericwood> fetch throws an exception
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<shemerey> and handle default values {}.fetch(:lol, :ololo)
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<ericwood> ugh don't use those D:
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<ericwood> well
<ericwood> eh that's fine
<arrubin> A value is fine.
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<arrubin> Do not use an expensive method call.
<ericwood> it's default values in hash initialization that I don't like
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<arrubin> If you wish to use an expensive method call for the default, use a block to fetch instead.
<ericwood> yah
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<jailbot> ok
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<RubyPanther> defaults on initialization are considered harmful, but on a fetch looks harmless to me. Less clear than breaking it out with a conditionals IMO
<ericwood> as long as it's transparent what's actually happening
<ericwood> avoid teh magix
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<shevy> \o/
<jailbot> im kind of a noob
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<jailbot> going through the koans
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<arrubin> One potential problem is: h.fetch(:foo, get_from_db())
<ayesian> has anybody implemented authentication tokens?
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<jailbot> oh I get it nvm
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<happytux> hi again
<happytux> In Rake I want to define the following:
<happytux> task "symlink:remove" => :smoke => "symlink:create"
<happytux> so first symlink:create should be called, then smoke and then symlink:remove
<happytux> how can I map this?
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<lethjakman> MY_VARIABLES = [1, 2, 3] if declared in a class would only be available in that class, correct?
<bricker> lethjakman: constants are global
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<lethjakman> bricker: hrmmm.
<lethjakman> ok thank you.
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<RubyPanther> benzrf: what about it exactly?
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<benzrf> thats the perl 6 grammar
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<benzrf> its over 6k lines
<benzrf> :|
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<ericwood> eh that's not too bad
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<RubyPanther> benzrf: Well it has to do everything that Perl 5 did, and more. Ideological orthogonality guarantees that the complexity will multiply.
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<aerook> Is there an intuitive way to pop elements from a collection from a list of indexes? Doing it individual would change the index of the target elements in an each iteration
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<arrubin> A list of indexes?
<RubyPanther> Ruby is simple because we don't have "context" (in the Perl sense of the word) and things are expected NOT to be orthogonal. If something is orthogonal in Perl, that means it is expected to work in that way, too; in Ruby it is expected to not work. In Ruby it is expected that to move in 2 directions, you have 2 different objects.
<katlogic> Still confused. Which of the two is the holy grail of string processing then?
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<benzrf> katlogic: neither
<benzrf> regexps suck
<benzrf> use real parsing
<benzrf> i recommend haskell
<benzrf> :^)
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<RubyPanther> aerook: it is excessively complicated to alter an array while iterating. There is not a simple solution
<benzrf> aerook: xy problem
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<RubyPanther> aerook: the "intuitive" way is to just create a new array and not pop or slice anything
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<arrubin> aerook: You have a list of indexes and you wish to remove those items from an array?
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<arrubin> Yes, create a new array and do not include the items.
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<arrubin> There is probably a better option that involves not creating the list of indexes in the first place.
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<terrellt> aerook: What are you trying to do?
<terrellt> aerook: There's probably an array method for what you want.
<mg^^> yeah that question took too long to come out :)
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<aerook> terrellt: I figured it out: array.delete_if.with_index {|_, index| delete_indexes.include?(i) }
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<selite> Guys how do you actually practice your ruby skills?
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<selite> I wanna do practical things and I've no inspiration over what to build.
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<arrubin> selite: If you want some basic exercises, exercism.io is decent.
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<RubyPanther> I subscribed to a google news section called "Ruby," it gives me links to great RoR stories like http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/scotland-ror-hosts-combined-training-class-trial/
<benzrf> selite: write a program that simulates gravity and movement of spheres in space on a 2d plane
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<selite> arrubin: I can't see the list of exercises. I am well versed in basic things.
<selite> benzrf: But that's so useless. How do you become as productive as some guys that contribute to 3 projects simulatenously and have built shit-load of things.
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* benzrf shrugs
<benzrf> im the world's least productive person dont fucking ask me
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<selite> benzrf: Lol.
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<benzrf> selite: go learn haskell
<selite> benzrf:why?
<benzrf> cuz its cool
<jiriki> selite: probably same way you build muscle
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<xybre> selite: Find something you wish sucked less and build a better one, or contribute to it. Or, if you run into a problem, build a tool to help you solve it.
<selite> jiriki: I learnt Scheme and I still haven't completed SICP. :(
<xybre> Or find a project you think is neat and go through their bugs or feature tickets and try to implement/fix them.
<arrubin> selite: Getting started requires a few steps. You might log in using your GitHub account, download the exercism client, then follow the setup instructions and fetch the exercises.
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<benzrf> selite: implement a scheme in ruby
<arrubin> s/might/must/
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<selite> benzrf: Oh yeah, that sounds nice.
<xybre> Everyone has implemented scheme in ruby at this point.
<benzrf> i havent!
<jiriki> I do think its important to find someone to work with, that way is much more motivating
<benzrf> ive only implemented it in haskell
<benzrf> :-)
<arrubin> xybre: All of R6RS?
<selite> jiriki: How do you find someone to work with?
<benzrf> .co.de is a thing
<agent_white> selite: Build an IRC client? That's what I'm doing now.
<jiriki> selite: find an interesting project :)
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<selite> jiriki: I am in a hipster college with weed smokers and poets.
<jiriki> :D
<jiriki> you can work over internet
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<jiriki> with people
<benzrf> i am such a hipster woah
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<agent_white> me2
<benzrf> selite: im often open to collab if u want
<selite> benzrf: What are you working on currently? xD
<benzrf> no major projects
<benzrf> altho im also working on a website in a guys employ
<benzrf> but thats not a personal proj
<xybre> arrubin: Well not all of it, but no one does that ;)
<benzrf> been learning about comonads :-)
<selite> benzrf: Ok send me your github link.
<xybre> Except one guy
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<selite> benzrf: The thing is that I don't wanna end up like some programmers constantly learning new languages. I wanna build things instead.
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<combusean> hah
<combusean> that's called the real world
<benzrf> u can do both
<combusean> and if you stay stagnant with one language, you'll go obsolete
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<selite> combusean: And you can be constantly learning things about languages while not utilizing their power.
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* combusean has ended up in devops rather than get super 1337 about ruby, and is fine with that.
<combusean> for now
<katlogic> devops ftw
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<combusean> except when nginx is mean to me like right now
<combusean> and all the other half baked, poorly documented tools and obsolete environments
<combusean> heh
<atmosx> combusean: what's the prob?
<combusean> it's 301ing to itself
<combusean> but i wasn't gonna ask here
<selite> ive take a java final now.
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<havenwood> g'luck
* havenwood wonders what a programming final is like...
<atmosx> havenwood: write a bubble-sort in 45 seconds?
<testcore> final Java implements Final { return final; }
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<katlogic> worse; with java its usually girdworld
<katlogic> kids should really organize and boycott this sort of abuse
<atmosx> yeah, a prescription might be neede
<atmosx> d
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<benzrf> girdworld?
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<benzrf> bubblesort in 45???
<benzrf> until list.sorted
<katlogic> benzrf: spelling it properly would invoke the beast from the depths of abyss.
<benzrf> etc
<benzrf> katlogic: are you referring to minecraf
<benzrf> t
<RubyPanther> I dropped out when they switched the CS program to Java, but that was `99
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<RubyPanther> I'm surprised they still teach it without riots
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<workmad3> RubyPanther: new students don't realise it's damaging them :(
<RubyPanther> workmad3: I guess since my first language was BASIC I was already sensitized to brain damage\
<combusean> heh
<benzrf> i went BASIC -> VB -> PHP -> Java
* combusean is still recovering from many years of php =(
<benzrf> goml
<katlogic> benzrf: gridworld ...
<workmad3> RubyPanther: ah, I got past BASIC when my mind was still growing, so I just grew around the brain damage :)
<benzrf> wtf is gridworld
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<RubyPanther> before Java they were using C++, but I got good grades using plain C. It wasn't what I was supposed to be doing, but I guess it was close enough..
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<atmosx> workmad3: how it's damaging them?!?!?! I'm was obviously joking about the horrendous syntax compared to ruby/python ... http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html It's 2nd to C.
<katlogic> Mad scientist experiments
<katlogic> on high school kids
<katlogic> using java
<katlogic> oh the humanity
<workmad3> atmosx: the horrible, horrible, stilted crap that java pushes as an 'Object system'
<atmosx> benzrf: you took a lot of shit :-P
<benzrf> >objects
<RubyPanther> my HS taught Hypercard on the mac as AP "programming"
<benzrf> >having 'fields'
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<atmosx> workmad3: why?
<xybre> Oh I forgot about HyperCard that was awesome.
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<benzrf> atmosx: i was a baby i knew no better
<benzrf> :(
<RubyPanther> HyperCard was like.. the WWW 10 years early
<xybre> It's not AP anything, and its not really programming, but its still awesome.
<combusean> the guy who invented the term objected oriented programming specifically said he did not have languages like C++ and java in mind.
<benzrf> yeah
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<benzrf> them and their classes
<benzrf> pfft
<benzrf> its all about the messages
<atmosx> benzrf: I'm kidding, I wish a had more background, I started with ruby and I'm stuck with ruby :-P
<xybre> Applesoft BASIC was my first language. Then gw and q. REXX and some other scripting languages, then VB (which even then I knew was awful), C, some game-specific languages, and then Ruby.
<RubyPanther> it sucked, but the school made a (significant!) profit by selling the student's projects.
<benzrf> atmosx: lrn2haskell
<xybre> The C was really useful in understanding Ruby.
* combusean wonders if anyone else here learned pascal in school
<xybre> I did some ASM in there somewhere too.
<benzrf> combusean: my dad did
<katlogic> combusean: yeah i went the pascal path
<workmad3> atmosx: also, I've heard (but can't quote a definite source) that java was mostly designed to try and mitigate the damage that 'average' coders could do and still produce code that worked
<combusean> hehe
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<combusean> the midlate 1990s at a moderately funded public school
<katlogic> combusean: qbasic -> tp7 -> tp7 + asm -> bc -> djgpp
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<workmad3> combusean: I played around with Delphi while I was still in school... does that count? :)
<katlogic> (all in 90s)
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<RubyPanther> when I was in school we still called it pascal
<torresga> i didnt mind java as much as i did having paper exams
<workmad3> combusean: there may also have been some pascal in one of my classes... can't remember (but I'm in the UK... quite a bit different school system here)
<atmosx> workmad3: the most degrading quots I've heard from people I respect for their skills (Marlienspike, Torvarlds) were about JavaScript not java.
<torresga> i still dont understand
<combusean> applesoft basic -> qbasic -> visual basic -> pascal -> cgi/shell nonsense for a bit -> PHP -> ruby
<torresga> why we had to write java code on paper. for a programming class
<combusean> torresga, it prepares you for job interviews
<workmad3> atmosx: torvalds has a large repertoire of vitriol for C++, most of it can also be applied to java iirc
<katlogic> calling php and ruby programming languages is kinda stretch for me
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<workmad3> *repetoire
<torresga> still dont get it
<torresga> psuedocode sure
<atmosx> torresga: maybe your professor grew on punchards?
<atmosx> punch-cards
<RubyPanther> pascal was a great language for students, because you could program DOOR games for BBSes with it, and also addons for Legend Of the Red Dragon
<katlogic> im too old and thus opposed to call anything not producing binary executable code a programming language :)
<torresga> i think she was kinda young for that
<workmad3> torresga: oh, we got to code on the computer for java... but then we had to print it out and hand that in...
<benzrf> katlogic: poppycock
<combusean> torresga, wait until you have 3 guys with sticks up their ass throwing features at you and putting you more on the spot than youv'e ever been on your life why it's not working/efficient/up to how they wanted to do it
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<atmosx> workmad3: I think he is/was one of the most prolific programmers of his time.
<torresga> i cant wait
<combusean> torresga, all in a whiteboard when you're in a suit and don't know any of these people.
<arrubin> katlogic: So Java is not a programming language?
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<workmad3> combusean: you're forced into a monkey-suit with a leash? :(
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<katlogic> arrubin: Thing like Java or even javascript, with actually decent runtimes blur the line a bit.
<atmosx> workmad3: so I kinda trust him, although I know he is bashing out quite too often and it's not a *polite* guy :-)
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<workmad3> combusean: last time I wore a shirt was for my sister's wedding
<katlogic> But anything slow as ruby and python or even perl is just scripting.
<arrubin> katlogic: Ruby, Python, and Perl execution are very similar.
<katlogic> convenient, slow glue = script
<arrubin> katlogic: They just do not break the steps out.
<workmad3> atmosx: end of the day, credentials mean nothing unless you've not got the time or ability to check out the claims yourself
<workmad3> atmosx: the smartest guys in the world can still say stuff that's wrong, after all :)
<combusean> workmad3, when i'm interviewing for a job that pays over six figures I tend to not fuck around
<combusean> workmad3, but I don't wear a tie at least.
<workmad3> combusean: :D
<atmosx> workmad3: I don't :-) I would ave to know Java at least other 5 laguages inside-out in order to have an opinion (that counts).
<Lucky_> I would say that at around 6 figures is when you start to fuck around
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<atmosx> workmad3: agreed
<combusean> a lower middle-class lifestyle in san francisco, as it turns out
<atmosx> combusean: you're a lawyer?
<combusean> or middle class
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<RubyPanther> You gotta be pretty old to consider APL to be newfangled
<katlogic> arrubin: Break steps out? You mean authors of said slow runtimes stated explicitly "it is just a glue for external C libraries, not actual programming language where performance-critical algorithms should be expressed" isn't it?
<combusean> atmosx, devops for a startup
<xybre> 6 figures in SF is required to not have 3 roommates.
<arrubin> katlogic: No, I mean that they all compile to bytecode internally.
<katlogic> arrubin: So?
<atmosx> combusean: oh, okay the average YN guy ;-)
<torresga> xybre: really???
<arrubin> katlogic: Your distinction is rather nebulous.
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<torresga> thats nuts
<combusean> my rent in a shithole with a half mile walk to the trainstation and a 40 minute ride to work on average is $2300 a month with parking, water, and sewer
<atmosx> combusean: omg
<workmad3> combusean: O.o
<xybre> torresga: Yes, really. It's comprable to Manhatten island rent and cost of living.
<katlogic> arrubin: Put another way, whatever at least approaches near-c performance, whatever means actually puts C outside of the equation. Most of the stuff can be actually represented in said language.
<combusean> it's more expensive than manhattan
<katlogic> arrubin: This is not the case of ruby.
<combusean> to not have a shit commute would be paying $3000/month for a one bedroom
<workmad3> combusean: I'm renting a 3-bed house with a garden for less than half that :/
<atmosx> combusean: I'd write code 8-10 hours per day for 2300 USD/month
<xybre> They leap frog, one year its SF the next its Manhatten. Right now its probably more due to the most rcent bubble.
<combusean> atmosx, i work day and night
<RubyPanther> I was in SF in 2003, we applied for a studio in the Tenderloin for $1600/m and we didn't get it... 50+ people applied with higher credit scores
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<atmosx> combusean: I know, but you're in for the big money, I'm not.
<combusean> i'm in it to deliver
<combusean> and have a job
<xybre> I got to live in the city within walking distance to my work in the financial district but it was a no-bedroom loft that cost almost 3k.
<combusean> being unemployed is fucking scary up here
<combusean> esp when threatened with moving back home to a backwater where jobs are shit and it's 2007.
<atmosx> combusean: oh I'm from Greece, being unemployed is the default now.
<atmosx> combusean: although I study in CZ so, doesn't really affect me at this pin
<combusean> =(
<atmosx> point
<RubyPanther> We ended up paying $1100/m to share a row house way out on the south side of Twin Peaks
<jiriki> I'm from Finland, and being unemployed isn't really scary here
<xybre> Yeah, in the US they shoot you on site for being unemployed.
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<xybre> sight^
<xybre> too
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<workmad3> xybre: they shoot you on sight if you're on site? :)
<benzrf> stop
<benzrf> yall are scaring me
<benzrf> ;-;
<torresga> well if that were the case id be dead by now
<xybre> Well, "on site" could mean "where you stand" but "on sight" is what I mean "when they see you".
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<kaleido> i paid $1600/mo for a studio in milpitas in 1998. thank god the ipo made it all worth it
<katlogic> workmad3: It's to prevent hobo riots.
<RubyPanther> They shoot you on sight on site without a security pass
<combusean> wow kaleido it was that high then!
<combusean> in milpitas?!
<musashi1> Yeah, that's really high
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<combusean> that's higher than today
<musashi1> It is
<kaleido> dotcom fun
<musashi1> I was paying 1400 for a one bedroom in santa clara in 2005
<atmosx> is Hendrix's little wing another song about dope?
<kaleido> exodus came with its downside
<workmad3> xybre: I'm imagining an office building with the sign 'Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again' and then some form of death-maze style escape from your exit interview in the middle of said building...
<musashi1> economic bubbles are a PITA
<RubyPanther> everybody is really high in SF, it is no surprise. Even the rent is high.
<musashi1> no coincidence
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<RubyPanther> it is no bubble when the rent has been that high for over a decade.It started with a bubble, sure.
<musashi1> it hasn't been that high... studios went down significnatly in 2008
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<katlogic> Looking forward for US to go the commie route and finally start repossesing.
<RubyPanther> but "affordable housing" is not going to return to SF. If you want "affordable housing" you need to be on the other side of the bay.
<katlogic> That will be fun.
<combusean> i don't think it's a bubble here fortunately.
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<musashi1> where is 'here'
<RubyPanther> just because during a recession rents went down slightly, and temporarily, that doesn't prove it is a bubble. That proves it isn't because that is the only data point that looks that way.
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<xybre> workmad3: I think I worked at that facility
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<musashi1> i don't know what 'affordable housing' means
<combusean> musashi1, SF, bay area, almost anywhere that's absurdly hiring
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<musashi1> obviously the people who live there can afford it
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<combusean> tenuously
<musashi1> <shrug> I'm born and raised bay area...
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<katlogic> basically commieblocks
<RubyPanther> musashi1: You're probably not trying very hard to understand a term if your best attempt is to figure out what it must not mean ;)
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<musashi1> I agree - that's the definition of a bubble..
<katlogic> I highly doubt this will ever happen in US.
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<kaleido> i never regret leaving california
<combusean> moving to CA was the best thing i've ever done for myself and my career
<kaleido> i never ski'd, never went to the beach, it wasnt san diego, and it was expensive
<musashi1> to where did you go?
<combusean> bay area, SF
<kaleido> i moved to kansas city, mo
<musashi1> was asking kaleido
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<musashi1> unfortunately, here is about the best place to be if your'e in tech
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<musashi1> all these damn transplants though ;)
<combusean> SF has always been a city of transplants
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<musashi1> true
<arrubin> kaleido: And now you have faster Internet access than you did in the Bay Area and your cost of living is less than half of what it was?
<RubyPanther> "affordable housing" means that you can afford it with a "regular" job. That means if you're above the poverty level, there is some sort of housing that you can get. Being at 125% of the poverty level will not allow you to afford even a studio apartment in SF. You'll not only be on the east side of the bay, you'll be way the heck out there in smogville
<combusean> it was founded on real gold, now there's tech gold
<musashi1> Rubypanther; a regular job here is a tech job..
<combusean> people come in from all over to make their fortunes, some stay, some leave
<kaleido> arrubin: i have google fiber, yes. and housing is 163% less.
<RubyPanther> musashi1: Actually, guess what, the regular jobs in SF are still done by humans, not yet by robots.
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<musashi1> thanks?
<workmad3> kaleido: your landlord pays you rent?
<workmad3> ;)
<arrubin> kaleido: I am jealous because you are near Boulevard.
<musashi1> more still, poverty level is federally defined and 'regular' job is local to the area
<kaleido> haha nah we bought
<RubyPanther> And actually most of those "tech jobs" are not even IN SF. They live in SF and work in South Bay, causing the people who work in SF to have to live in East Bay.
<workmad3> kaleido: just trying to figure out '163%' less without it meaning someone gave you money :P
<kaleido> arrubin: im still a sierra nevada man, but i love the boulevard brewery tour
<musashi1> Completely disagree - they've all moved to SF
<RubyPanther> They ride Caltrain and the local workers have to ride BART
<musashi1> I live and work in the south bay..
<musashi1> ...
<musashi1> You're not from around here are you
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<kaleido> workmad3: i bought. rent here is where you get raped
<RubyPanther> ^ I pretty obviously am intimately familiar with the regional dynamics
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<workmad3> kaleido: ... 100% less == 0
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<musashi1> You're really not - caltrain and bart are not comparable
<workmad3> kaleido: so 163% less == someone gave you money
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<kaleido> so perhaps the right expression was, california was 163% more
<katlogic> I wonder how SF makes it hobo population invisible.
<workmad3> kaleido: :D
<katlogic> Apparently lots of folks are under poverty level, yet the place looks almost hobo-free.
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<arrubin> katlogic: Have you actually been there?
<arrubin> katlogic: They are everywhere.
<workmad3> kaleido: that would be about 40% less ;)
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<workmad3> kaleido: oh sorry... 60% less
<katlogic> arrubin: Yes, but in 2007. I suppose a lot changed (I'm across the pond).
<RubyPanther> musashi1: I'm not sure about your English, I only "compared" Caltrain and BART by saying that the tech workers living in SF ride caltrain to work, and the workers in SF ride BART into SF.
<arrubin> katlogic: There has been a very high homeless population in SF for decades.
<arrubin> And that has not changed.
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<katlogic> arrubin: Very high as in, not different from places like NYC.
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<katlogic> Sure, in hobos in america are much more commonplace than in EU, one has to consider things in local terms.
<musashi1> RubyPanther, I have no interest in getting into this with you. You're obviously not from around here.
<RubyPanther> Just go out to eat on Haight, and carry a bag with leftovers while walking to the bus stop. 20 street kids will ask, "spare leftovers?" Only place I've been where people actually beg directly for food, instead of for money
<RubyPanther> musashi1: "nobody" is "from around [there]," at least not most of the people there
<musashi1> I am
<RubyPanther> If you really were, you'd know what I just said is true!
<katlogic> RubyPanther: wow, thats pretty cool.
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<katlogic> Last place I've seen that is 3rd world shitholes like nepal.
<arrubin> katlogic: NYC has about five times as many homeless, but ten times the population.
<arrubin> SF is also tiny.
<RubyPanther> but being from South Bay might not actually teach you about SF in the same way as living there for awhile and having lots of friends who live there still
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<combusean> Caltrain has a surprisingly high "reverse" commute from SF people evacuating the city
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<musashi1> I'm from the east bay - 12 mins from SF..
<combusean> SoMA has the highest rents because a tech worker there can work locally or hop on caltrain to the peninsula.
<musashi1> ^
<combusean> at 3:15 AM
<musashi1> And, twitter, linkedin, blah blah blah blah are all there now.
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<musashi1> And yeah, it's very 3rd world.
<RubyPanther> In Portland they have these food vouchers you can buy, and they're good for a full meal at some restaurants... I've seen beggars actually yell at people for handing them one! Very different than Haight St
<combusean> portland sounds really cool
<combusean> small tho
<RubyPanther> in Boston beggars expect to have to work for their handouts, and most of them can at least ding out Marry Had A Little Lamb with a spoon and empty can
<kaleido> haha
<arrubin> Portland is where young people go to retire.
* combusean giggles at Portlandia
<momomomomo> YESSSSS
<momomomomo> fuck yeah, i'm outa here
<momomomomo> I was going to link you guys some per capita stats etc
<momomomomo> basically San Francisco has the most homeless per capita in the US
<kaleido> friends just moved to north dakota and said shit's booming up there so much there are waiting lists for apartments and people are living in hotels
<RubyPanther> when I lived in Portland, I always tried to chat up Portlandia whenever I was walking home drunk at 3am
<momomomomo> but, I just resolved an issue with my docker/puppet deployment, and I'm leaving
<momomomomo> pz
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<katlogic> "Will cobble up shitty RoR CRUD apps for food"
<katlogic> or food stamps
<katlogic> is that what SF is like?
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<kaleido> no, its just kinda filthy :(
<RubyPanther> walking home at 3am in SF, you're just happy to still be alive each block you get closer
<arrubin> More like a homeless hippy and his dog sitting on the sidewalk in everyone's way.
<momomomomo> kaleido: yep, in ND you can make ~60-70k with a Class A license (ie: tractor/trailer trucks)
<katlogic> arrubin: Well, those guys were there like forever. Its the tech sector invading their natural habitat.
<RubyPanther> Yeah, I'd heard how bad the Tenderloin was, but the only problem I ever had was having to step over smelly people. Not exactly intimidating in the same was as the gangs on Haight\
<RubyPanther> I went to Haight for the hippies, but instead I found the highest concentration of blood and emergency vehicles I've ever seen. And that includes war protests.
<kaleido> i like being asked by nearly homeless teens what time it is, and responding with the actualy time instead of "4:20" and seeing them get disappointed they had no sale
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<katlogic> SF city council oughta put more thought into preserving wildlife / hippie pastures.
<katlogic> Or they'll go extinct.
<RubyPanther> katlogic: they have hippie pastures in Golden Gate Park, but the cops go in and beat everybody with batons once a month
<katlogic> :/
<katlogic> Well such is the struggle of a hippy.
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<musashi1> Guys, the hippies have been in berkeley for 20 years now..
<RubyPanther> higher class hippies have the strength and nutrition to hike all the way to the top of Strawberry Hill, where beating them would be too much work.
<katlogic> RubyPanther: What I'm trying to point out. There are two kinds of hobos. In general, those who live like that voluntarily, and those who do not.
<katlogic> The distinction might not be apparent, but quite important to determine how sad the situation is.
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<RubyPanther> katlogic: homeless junkies are not hobos
<katlogic> Basically.
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<RubyPanther> there was a famous "will code for food" guy in SF, but it turned out he was just a junkie that knew HTML
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* jenrzzz will code for drugs
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<bean> whatever works, man
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<atmosx> RubyPanther: the one from hackernews?
<atmosx> lol
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<atmosx> RubyPanther: oh no, I saw a post from a guy who wanted to work for a bed and an internship at a startup in sillicon valley iirc.
<atmosx> anyway, gonna get some sleep
<atmosx> later all
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<happytux> Is it true that most ruby people aren't using rake anymore but ant instead?
<happytux> Just a rumor.
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<Senjai> happytux: I've never heard of ant in my life
<Senjai> and I work in this industry
<benzrf> ant is a stupid xml-based jvm build tool
<happytux> ok
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<happytux> being honest, I just wanted to provocate a bit :)
<happytux> I got a Rake related question but it is sparely documented.
<happytux> In Rake I want to define the following:
<happytux> task "symlink:remove" => :smoke => "symlink:create"
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<happytux> so first symlink:create should be called, then smoke and then symlink:remove
<happytux> how can I map this?
<happytux> I wasn't able to get this relationship working.
<happytux> In ant it wouldn't be problem. I am migrating from ant to Rake.
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<jenrzzz> happytux: task ‘remove’ => [:smoke, :create] ?
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<jenrzzz> or task ‘remove’ => :smoke; task ‘smoke’ => :create
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<jenrzzz> also lol at rubyists using ant
<jenrzzz> hahahahaha
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