<shevy>
cp: writing '/foo.mp3': No space left on device
<shevy>
anyone has an idea how to check (from a pure ruby script) whether there is enough space left on a device, before trying to use fileutils to copy things to it?
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<gazarsgo>
%x(`df -h`) ?
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<gazarsgo>
so pure it hurts.
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<gazarsgo>
oops, no ` inside
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<robonerd>
heh anyone know how to generate 0 or 1 randomly and equally?
<shevy>
robonerd rand[2] I think
<shevy>
hmmm
<shevy>
perhaps not ...
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<shevy>
Random.rand(2)
<shevy>
# => 1
<shevy>
Random.rand(2) # => 1
<shevy>
Random.rand(2) # => 0
<shevy>
ok that seems to work
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<robonerd>
so rand is passed max input - 1?
<robonerd>
er max output
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<shevy>
I think it just starts at 0
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<shevy>
if you want a die with six sides, you could try: Random.rand(6) + 1
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<shevy>
not sure why it starts at 0
<robonerd>
any idea how to do it in c? generate either 0 or 1 evenly, and in 1 line of code
<robonerd>
a single expression
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<shevy>
hmm
<shevy>
last time I tried to use C was years ago... isn't it with some way to seed?
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<shevy>
aha
<shevy>
:P
<shevy>
come back to ruby man
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<shevy>
leave the painful world of C behind
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<robonerd>
yea i'm going to get back into ruby now actually. been away 7 years
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<robonerd>
my quiver will hold regular use of C, objC, and ruby
<robonerd>
that's it
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<shevy>
7 years!
<shevy>
did you use another scripting language?
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<ZenGuy311>
hi woudl it be possible to build a ruby webapp that can play aduiobooks and remember each track position ?
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<oddalot>
Probably
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<robonerd>
oddalot how would that work?
<ZenGuy311>
thanks .. i just found mplayer-ruby while waiting for a reply
<shevy>
what
<shevy>
mplayer-ruby ??
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<ZenGuy311>
ruby-mplayer .. it's a mplayer wrapper
<shevy>
is it an active project
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<ZenGuy311>
i just want to see if i can learn and make a app useful to me.. which is a audiobook/podcast player that can remember last position on each track and adjust playback speed
<ZenGuy311>
no 3 years old
<shevy>
well
<shevy>
everything is possible
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<shevy>
but you will probably have to be spirited and motivated to finish it
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<ZenGuy311>
i'm pretty certain all the main software is our there i just need to cobble it together.. to get the functionality i want
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<shevy>
hmm
<shevy>
I found that doing little projects is often enough much better
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<shevy>
I started a project, the ruby build tools, years ago... went through 3 rewrites already
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<shevy>
now, since perhaps a month or so, I am starting to instead write tiny little scripts to do like 70% of the things it can do
<shevy>
it is much easier to maintain, change, add features too, compared to the big project
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<shevy>
though what happens in a year, who knows. perhaps it will be as big as the other one
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<ZenGuy311>
you think it'll be a big project? i'm aiming for two features thats already there on the backend .i just want a want a web front end.
<shevy>
well
<shevy>
ok you said
<shevy>
one app
<shevy>
one basic feature in it
<shevy>
ok, that is not a big project
<shevy>
but I think it may still be quite a bit of code in it
<ZenGuy311>
ok.. i can see that
<shevy>
Podcast Player (must play audio files I think?) and must be able to remember the last position on each track and adjust playback speed (ok... 3 features?)
<zendeavor>
better get started
<zendeavor>
no time to lose
<shevy>
ZenGuy311 you could cheat a bit
<shevy>
for instance, ruby-gnome has some gstreamer bindings
<zendeavor>
;o
<ZenGuy311>
which is easier, desktop or webapp?
<shevy>
dunno
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<shevy>
if you can avoid both
<shevy>
do so
<shevy>
:D
<Jake232>
If I happened to recieve the following in one of my background workers
<Jake232>
(OBJ_FROZEN(shared)), function str_replace, file string.c, line 879.
<Jake232>
and then ruby died
<shevy>
ruby-gnome bindings are somewhat ok...
<Jake232>
What could cause that?
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<ZenGuy311>
all the best podcast audiobook apps are on mobile so i'm resorting to this
<shevy>
cool error
<Jake232>
Assertion failed: (OBJ_FROZEN(shared)), function str_replace, file string.c, line 879.
<shevy>
I would assume it happens on a string object... that was .freeze
<Jake232>
what the full error
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<shevy>
ZenGuy311 ok but what means "mobile" exactly here... html and javascript?
<Jake232>
was*
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<Jake232>
and, no .freeze in sight
<shevy>
I don't know OBJ_FROZEN, but perhaps that is the C equivalent for .freeze ?
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<dweeb>
How do I write a good test for a method like this: http://pastie.org/private/gp161bg5pscsj8x4zwsug (I dont wanna test that deliver return true, I wanna make sure that a notification is created.)
<dweeb>
Maybe I should separate it into two methods
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<havenwood>
SteveBenner09: There are multiple good non-Net/HTTP options.
<havenwood>
SteveBenner09: Guy who put the spreadsheet together is the author of HTTPClient, which is really nice.
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<SteveBenner09>
That is extremely encouraging. I was really hoping that it was my inexperience leading to a lack of finding good libs
<SteveBenner09>
thank you for this resource (I'd love to contribute, incidentally...)
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<havenwood>
SteveBenner09: Mechanize and HTTPClient are two of my favorites. For quick one-off scripts, HTTParty has some handy built-in XML/HTML/JSON parsing. The curl wrappers are really, really fast especially for non-concurrent stuff.
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<SteveBenner09>
My current focus is on building a Rhodes app, so I admit that my needs are particular... It's for synchronizing user data using TouchDB and CouchDB, so the use cases are... interesting
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<SteveBenner09>
I'll be taking a look at these, especially anything with good SSL support since thats a difficult area for me to dive into and necessary for my project
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<SteveBenner09>
havenwood: thanks again!
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<havenwood>
SteveBenner09: No prob. From the sound of what you're doing I wonder if ZeroMQ or RabbitMQ might be nice, for asynchronous messaging. Also people forget about DRB.
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<SteveBenner09>
there already :) looks fascinating
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<havenwood>
I haven't used DRB for real work, but I'd love to. Just played with it but seems neat.
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<bnagy>
I have used drb a lot for local-system rpc, it's fast
<havenwood>
Seems to be a solid alternative to 0MQ and the others as long as Ruby can be on both ends.
<bnagy>
never really had the guts to look at it for distributed work
<bnagy>
and, as you say, it locks you into ruby
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<SteveBenner09>
I'll have to compare DRB this with my current design (which not at implement phase yet), which is to use HTTPS at the start, and then to optimize, upgrade to MessagePack base64 raw packets over TCP sockets if possible
<bnagy>
I tend to prefer the actor / message passing model to rpc for 'real' work, though
<SteveBenner09>
the web server is Erlang so its connected to CouchDB and TouchDB nicely
<bnagy>
especially async
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<SteveBenner09>
I did look at ZeroMQ, but I'll have to see where that fits in... the mobile devices use the implementation of TouchDB to actually send the data
<SteveBenner09>
but on the server I want to integrate ZeroMQ asap
<bnagy>
zeromq from ruby is... a bit tricky tbh
<bnagy>
getting clean exits etc can be a total pain in the ass
companion is now known as Companion
<bnagy>
also afaik the core 0mq devs have moved on
<bnagy>
to crossroads I think
<havenwood>
bnagy: ooh, didn't know that
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<SteveBenner09>
right, I wasn't planning on using it in the app code, but rather for integrating the system components on the server, which are mostly Erlang. It (theoretically) sounds easy to glue Erlang and Ruby with 0mq but I haven't gotten to that phase yet :)
<bnagy>
plus, the binary lib dependency is a huge pain in the butt
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<SteveBenner09>
yes I also heard that, makes me sad
<bnagy>
if you are using erland why not go amqp?
<havenwood>
yeah, DCell uses 0MQ
<SteveBenner09>
just like the Apache guys are jumping to CouchBase hahaha
<SteveBenner09>
ah commercialism... when will it bite
<havenwood>
use any Elixir? seems quite nice.
<bnagy>
I moved some moderately high traffic stuff from amqp to 0mq for 'speed' and turned out it didn't really help at all, and it was a shitload harder to code for
<bnagy>
whereas there are really good libs for amqp
<SteveBenner09>
bnagy: my associate who created the web server and erlang packages just left actually, so I'm not a real erlang programmer (yet)
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<SteveBenner09>
I come from a ruby/web background with systems stuff thrown in
<SteveBenner09>
but ABSOLUTELY going to hit Elixir hard..
<SteveBenner09>
excited for that
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<SteveBenner09>
bnagy: Hmm, thanks for that thought. I havent used 0mq as of yet, so my impressions are only of the attractive API and the cross-platform integration possibilities. Definitely keeping my eyes open for the best alternatives. Thanks for the info..
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<bnagy>
fwiw my can't live without tools are messagepack, beanstalkd, amqp
<bnagy>
and jruby
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<bnagy>
also, the 0mq API is not attractive imho
<bnagy>
I loved it, like.. a LOT
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<bnagy>
but you need to reinvent a lot of wheels to suit your usecase
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<bnagy>
whereas if you can shoehorn it into either 'queue' or 'pubsub' etc then it's trivial with other tools
<bnagy>
I really think it's a bad choice for buffery stuff, imho
<bnagy>
stuff just vanishes into magic C land where it starts bloating invisible buffers
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<SteveBenner09>
full disclosure: I'm just out of College so I have some 'hard-coded' limits of how much I've worked with.. No clue how 0mq would compare in my project!
<SteveBenner09>
I'm definitely waiting to investigate that particlular problem until I dive into TouchDB's implementation, which will be where I find the optimizations for iOS, our main target platform...
<bnagy>
it's good for a 'crazy magic distributed supercomputer' pattern if you know what you're doing
<bnagy>
if you want a work queue, it's probably not an awesome choice
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<SteveBenner09>
well, until we evaluate a replacement programmer for dedicated server needs, I'm the only one on the project, so I'm definitely going to be kicking it off with Ruby libraries first
<bnagy>
messagepack is a good crossplatform serialisation choice, imho, unless you are forced to use shitty json for some bizarre reason
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<SteveBenner09>
I looked into backburner but that is still down the road too.
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<SteveBenner09>
no yeah, I see messagepack as a great priority once I get the basic functionality polished
<SteveBenner09>
the app isn't 'live streaming' oriented, so it can definitely offload the encoding process to the ruby thread (this is using Rhodes which has 3 threads, one for pure Ruby, one for the built-in web server, and one for the GUI) and keep net traffic optimized
<SteveBenner09>
which is another reason I'm loving the idea of touchDB, because I will be moving DB operations in the background as a Rhodes extension asynchronously
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<havenwood>
bnagy: I've gotta look more at beanstalkd.
<bnagy>
it is my most favouritest evar
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<bnagy>
I think they're rewriting the native ruby client again though :/
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<SteveBenner09>
bnagy: have you any experience using backburner good sir? The other one on my list to investigate is Resque
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<bnagy>
no, I never had a reason to move off beanstalkd. I hear good things about resque, sidekiq blah blah but I don't know
<bnagy>
beanstalkd would not, by itself, have great integration with webby stuff, afaik
<popl>
bnagy is old and set in his ways
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<popl>
Xeago__: I wasn't making fun of you, btw.
<popl>
Xeago__: If you got that impression…
<bnagy>
well, I moved off amqp to 0mq... but then I moved back :(
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<SteveBenner09>
Cool. I have the advantage of being raw and full of endless possibilities and opportunity. and totally ignorant.
<popl>
SteveBenner09: usually goes hand in hand
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<popl>
An unformed lump of clay is potentially a masterful sculpture, right?
<bnagy>
or a giant dong
<popl>
bnagy: equally possible
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<bnagy>
not equally
<popl>
what is it with programmers and dongs?
<popl>
for some definition of 'equally'
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<SteveBenner09>
not sitting around in college classes has already improved the composition of whichever makes up me
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<bnagy>
the one that means the opposite of the actual meaning?
<SteveBenner09>
so either way I'm set
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<bnagy>
cause, I have tried masterful sculpture, and I have tried giant dongs, and dongs are way easier
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<popl>
bnagy: Is negaverse-bnagy a nice guy?
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<bnagy>
there is probably another programming metaphor at the other end of this somewhere...
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<bnagy>
or possibly just ascii dongs
<zets>
dongs are the greatest programming metaphor
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<gyzmodo>
hey guys
<popl>
bnagy: I have a sneaking suspicion that early artifacts like the Venus of Willendorf are something like that
<gyzmodo>
i am newbie in programming, please recommend me ruby book for beginners
<gyzmodo>
thanks
<bnagy>
zets: your eight totally equals uppercase 'd'
<gyzmodo>
btw, i've heard that ruby is not recommended for newbies in programming, is it true?
<zets>
ruby is fine
<havenwood>
gyzmodo: I haven't read it, but keep hearing people recommend it for new programmers. And its Ruby! Good list of general resources here: http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/documentation/
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<bnagy>
hrm
<havenwood>
gyzmodo: I think its fantastic for newbies.
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<mrsolo>
i don't
<tobiasvl>
i do
<gyzmodo>
i saw some examles, it looks great!
<bnagy>
I think it's a pretty good teaching language, apart from some of the functional stuff which can be kind of mindbending
<tobiasvl>
LET'S FIGHT
<SteveBenner09>
ruby is the best newby programming language
<SteveBenner09>
it teaches you good paradigms
<tobiasvl>
ruby makes programming seem as exciting and funny as it should be
<mrsolo>
there are worst choices
<mrsolo>
but
<bnagy>
I think pairing it with a curly brace strongly typed language would be useful
<mrsolo>
it can be a blow torch so there
<gyzmodo>
i am agree with you guys
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<SteveBenner09>
don't you learn C anyways though
<gyzmodo>
i am also reading why's book
<mrsolo>
no
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<mrsolo>
i doubt you have to learn c nowdays
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<hellyeah>
i just want to write html code in ruby sinatra is good for this
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<zets>
I don't think it really matters too much what your first language is, though it helps for it to be popular and useful. Ruby and python are two languages I'd recommend for starting out with.
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<gyzmodo>
i've started with Ruby
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<gyzmodo>
and i am happy
<gyzmodo>
:)
<bnagy>
a lot of the ruby code in that is .. well .. shitty
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<bnagy>
zed's just basically writing python in ruby
<SteveBenner009>
the hard way book?
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<havenwood>
^ yeah, interesting series but often not idiomatic Ruby
<bnagy>
but it covers a lot of stuff
<mrsolo>
what a split!
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<SteveBenner009>
hmm. the 'lot of stuff' point was what I was thinking, I actually havent gone back to that for about a year when I began ruby myself
<SteveBenner009>
probably would agree
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<zets>
I really enjoyed The Well-Grounded Rubyist
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<SteveBenner009>
I like the pragmatic ones now a days usually
<gyzmodo>
guys huge thanks for books
<gyzmodo>
you are awesome!
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<k_man>
LOL
<SteveBenner009>
There is one called 'ruby phrasebook' that I enjoyed having, simply because I could memorize patterns and sytnax on a mobile device reading it
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<SteveBenner009>
was pretty useful for me
<SteveBenner009>
but don't listen to me! I feel bad recommending that first one now. Heh.
<gyzmodo>
SteveBenner009, do you mean Clinton's book?
<SteveBenner009>
in the end my favorite learning has always been from BLOGS online, haha
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<SteveBenner009>
gyzmodo: yes
<hellyeah>
is there anyone here use debin
<hellyeah>
debian
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<k_man>
I use osx
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<k_man>
do you have some problem?
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<hellyeah>
ye
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<k_man>
go head, maybe i could help you
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<hellyeah>
i installed everything necessary but i took this error root@debian:/var/www/banabirsorgun# rails server -su: rails: command not found
<havenwood>
hellyeah: Sinatra is great for light web apps. You can serve up HTML with Sinatra, but if that is the extent of what you're doing a static site generator like Jekyll might make more sense.
<havenwood>
(previous question)
<havenwood>
hellyeah: gem install rails
<havenwood>
hellyeah: Rails channel is #RubyOnRails by the way.
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<havenwood>
hellyeah: Are you using the apt Ruby? If so, `sudo gem install rails`, but make sure you're at least using ruby1.9.1-full.
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<sevenseacat>
+1 chruby
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<hellyeah>
afaik i use ruby 1.9.3
<havenwood>
hellyeah: 2.0 would be better, but as long as it isn't 1.8!!
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<hellyeah>
i got ruby 1.9.3 from debian sid repos i guess it is fair enough
<SteveBenner009>
you can type 'which ruby' in the terminal to find out
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<SteveBenner009>
that will show you where the executable is loading from therefore which version will run in your apps by default
<mrsolo>
hellyeah, you better off using rvm type solution and less depending on the o/s package
<SteveBenner009>
(the system can be overriden by apps though)
<havenwood>
hellyeah: 1.9.3 is fine. Just so a `sudo apt-get install -y 1.9.1-full` to make sure you got the whole thing. Then a `sudo gem install rails` should do the trick.
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<mrsolo>
they less to have less surpises dealing with rails
<zendeavor>
1.9.3.-full ?
<mrsolo>
s/less/tend/
<SteveBenner009>
mrsolo: you recommend rvm over rbenv?
<mrsolo>
i only know rvm
<mrsolo>
can't comment on others
<havenwood>
zendeavor: Silly debian folk call the 1.9.3 package ruby1.9.1.
<SteveBenner009>
I really like rbenv, way easier and more friendly to use
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<zendeavor>
well okay.
<SteveBenner009>
depends on what you are doing though I guess.
<hellyeah>
ruby-1.9.3-full?
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<lurch_>
SteveBenner009: +1 .. rvm is more intrusive imo, it overrides 'cd' and messes up signal traps
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<mrsolo>
right
<mrsolo>
but it has that hack to work with multiple version of rails..
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<SteveBenner009>
X)
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<maloik>
SteveBenner009: what's so funny about that ?
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<SteveBenner009>
lurch_ that is very in-depth but I really agree that the lower-level you go and the more you dig into the system, the better rbenv is to work with
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<SteveBenner009>
it really has a better design I feel
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<SteveBenner009>
well, in case someone had already just installed rvm and that's a tutorial to change to rbenv
<maloik>
SteveBenner009: and to be clear that's an honest question, if you have anything to remark I do want to hear about it
<SteveBenner009>
well my point was I would start with rbenv, but if you had already gone to a lot of trouble with RVM... it can be a pain to uninstall/remove
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<zendeavor>
rvm implode
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<havenwood>
SteveBenner009: Have you looked at chruby compared to rbenv? Might save a second move. :P
<SteveBenner009>
I'm not superior when it comes to recommending either one, but like I say rbenv has struck me as better overall
<SteveBenner009>
rbm implode has not always worked fo rme
<SteveBenner009>
I have had to clean up (on mac osx) some things in the past
<SteveBenner009>
but that might be local to my issues.
<zendeavor>
well rvm is a disaster at this point
<SteveBenner009>
I am still learning the bash/profile stuff of course
<workmad3>
but then I use rvm on servers because I find it easier to integrate into my chef workflows
<havenwood>
workmad3: <3 zsh but oh-my-zsh bleh
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<mrsolo>
guess i need to catch up on recent ruby events
<atmosx>
but discussing about rvm/chruby/rbenv is so boring
<atmosx>
..
<SteveBenner009>
oh my zsh looks sweet but honestly I have been almost exclusively developing on unix right now
<havenwood>
never tried prezto
<SteveBenner009>
and not even that much hardcore CLI stuff
<zendeavor>
prezto is the best helper
<zendeavor>
(all helpers still suck infinitely)
<SteveBenner009>
ive heard its good
<SteveBenner009>
just haven't needed to dig into that yet
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<sevenseacat>
i dont get the whole idea of rbenv's shims
<havenwood>
workmad3: I like the themes, so stole just that. Found the rest more error prone than helpful.
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<havenwood>
(But added emoji to themes. Muhahahaa.)
<zendeavor>
the oh-my-zsh themes are outdated too
<havenwood>
Yeah, too little emoji! :P
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<sevenseacat>
i used to use oh my zsh, i ditched it after an upgrade completely broke the theme i had made
<workmad3>
havenwood: hmm, I spent some time tweaking in my own theme with colours and emoji, found a set of useful plugins, and I'm now happy :)
<zendeavor>
no, just stale
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<SteveBenner009>
the shim is a custom term they use to represent their 'routing' to the ruby binary
<zendeavor>
it's not a custom term
<SteveBenner009>
I really like rbenv because its method is flexible and non-intrusive\
<zendeavor>
shim is an old term
<zendeavor>
and shims are by definition intrusive
<workmad3>
havenwood: had a few foobars at times, but they were when I screwed up my zshrc in bad ways :)
<sevenseacat>
it is an old term, i dont get why rbenv needs them
<SteveBenner009>
RVM by comparison (again, I'm no expert) seems like a cat penetrating another female. Cats have barbed dicks. It's like that.
<sevenseacat>
just means more maintenance work\
<zendeavor>
SteveBenner009: you're a little misled
<SteveBenner009>
about the cats?
<sevenseacat>
'im having problem xyz' 'did you rehash first?' 'whoops'
<zendeavor>
about how intrusive rbenv is
<zendeavor>
shims are, by definition, intrusive. on purpose. that's the point.
<SteveBenner009>
oh. You've experienced problems with that system?
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<SteveBenner009>
yes, point taken.
<workmad3>
SteveBenner009: RVMs mechanism for shifting ruby versions is less intrusive (it does env-var manipulations, which is the correct, unixy way to do that sort of thing for multi-user support). The rest of it is supporting infrastructure to try and make extra things easy
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<mrsolo>
oh man
<zendeavor>
unfortunately rvm is so monstrous and bloated and complicated it failed to make anything else easy
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<workmad3>
SteveBenner009: which is why I use chruby... I don't care about that supporting infrastructure locally, I just want the envvar stuff :)
<zendeavor>
it's just a completely different system that you have to learn from the ground up
<mrsolo>
this isn't one of those discussion eh?
<zendeavor>
once you know it, sure it's easy.
<mrsolo>
test/unit vs rspec?
<sevenseacat>
i ditched rvm after i had to upgrade the entire system just to get a new list of rubies, and it exploded
<SteveBenner009>
then I've overstepped my knowledge of both packages it appears
<havenwood>
mrsolo: Use chruby or have rubies thrown at you!!
<sevenseacat>
mrsolo: pfft, rspec all the way
<workmad3>
mrsolo: Y U NO LIEK MINITEST?
<zendeavor>
chruby is the best of the bunch, that's why i used it as a basis for my project
<sevenseacat>
lol minitest
<mrsolo>
ya yes we need time for coffee break eh?
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<SteveBenner009>
I don't actually consider shims 'intrusive' since my perspective is that the profile files are very accessible
<hellyeah>
there is no ruby-1.9.3-full btw
<havenwood>
Ooh, i did buy 3 glass Rubies from Amazon, interested to see how they look!
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<sevenseacat>
i'm not sure that sentence made much sense.
<lurch_>
I agree with SteveBenner009.. I had scripts break (that didn't had anything to do with rvm) in weird ways because of the overrides that rvm did
<lurch_>
never had issues like that with rbenv\
<zendeavor>
SteveBenner009: well, shims want to be accessible. the intention is to wrap the existing infrastructure in a convenient package that automagically derives what you wanted to do
<bnagy>
shims are fine
<bnagy>
env vars are fine
<zendeavor>
"now everyone shut up"
<SteveBenner009>
rbenv uses ONE directory in your home path... since I'm a 'newb' still this will always be my preferred way of keeping things in context
<bnagy>
rvm is a zombie abortion holding a fucking scalpel
<workmad3>
SteveBenner009: rbenv shims have to get in the way of *every* ruby command
<sevenseacat>
he says that like the others use more than one
<SteveBenner009>
I am working with a dozen different languages/frameworks and I don't specialize system stuff as much as Id love to
<workmad3>
SteveBenner009: and redo the work of looking up which ruby to use
<workmad3>
SteveBenner009: while chruby just sets your env-vars and gets the hell out of your way
<SteveBenner009>
welll honestly I use RubyMine almost *exclusively* at this point :0
<SteveBenner009>
:)
<SteveBenner009>
its fucking magical
<workmad3>
meh
<SteveBenner009>
I don't run into serious issues with 'which ruby'
<SteveBenner009>
I know by this point all the places ruby can find itself into the system heh
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<zendeavor>
you mean, anywhere?
<zendeavor>
because it's anywhere.
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<SteveBenner009>
my beef is that with RVM, I've had to uninsta//reinstall for specific programs, and it is a serious disruption
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<zendeavor>
to be fair, you were probably doing it wrong
<SteveBenner009>
because I have to switch contexts of my gems and stuff too.. not fully 'in gear' with gem management you could say.
<zendeavor>
but to be extra fair, i don't blame you for the confusion
<sevenseacat>
lol
<SteveBenner009>
right. I'm fine with admitting that.
<sevenseacat>
you dont need to do 'gem management'
<SteveBenner009>
I'd love to learn more about all these systems, that is the point
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<SteveBenner009>
What I mean by that is keeping track of which versions of Ruby have which gems installed, nothing more
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<SteveBenner009>
I'm trying to switch to using bundler for everything
<SteveBenner009>
which is what I meant
<sevenseacat>
yeah you dont need to do that
<havenwood>
I wonder if Tokaido will succeed at becoming the defacto standard for OS X installations of Ruby.
<SteveBenner009>
it seems like a good plan at this point
<havenwood>
SteveBenner009: Can you do some Vagrant boxes? Vagrant works on Windows, right?
* flughafen
is windows free since almost 10 years
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<zendeavor>
3 years windows free here =]
<zendeavor>
feels good man
<SteveBenner009>
this one is jealous of you all
<bnagy>
lol desktop linux
<sebastianb>
Nah, windows is good for games ;)
<SteveBenner009>
I am broke and therefore in many kinds of pain :)
<sebastianb>
(and only for that)
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<sevenseacat>
i still keep windows for gaming
<zendeavor>
bnagy: someday
<havenwood>
zendeavor: almost missed that, chrubylib feature complete?
<sevenseacat>
but apart from that, windows free since 2008! \o/
<flughafen>
sebastianb: i gave up windows gaming and just bought a console, but now with steam/desura the gaming scene is quickly changing on linux
<workmad3>
sebastianb: spacechem works on a mac... who cares about games :P
<havenwood>
zendeavor: sick
<SteveBenner009>
I am using Virtualbox with Ubuntu 12
<sevenseacat>
workmad3: now you're speaking my language
<SteveBenner009>
so far its nice but my motherboard is ... well.. 5 years old.. and can't do virtualization... *cries*
<sevenseacat>
more people need to play spacechem
<SteveBenner009>
CPU virtualization*
<zendeavor>
havenwood: as far as i can tell. but it's not testable. there are no testing frameworks that i can leverage
<workmad3>
SteveBenner009: install ubuntu!
<mrsolo>
sevenseacat, i play spacechem!
<sevenseacat>
\o/
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<sebastianb>
flughafen: playing fps' on console is like shaving with a balloon
<zendeavor>
havenwood: remember the problem with testing ksh-family, shunit2 can't figure out functions defined without trailing ()
<SteveBenner009>
I play Warframe. Pretty amazing for F2P
<mrsolo>
sevenseacat, fastest time or minimal node
<flughafen>
sebastianb: you get used to it, but you're right, it does suck
<sebastianb>
workmad3: I use macs as well. But I usually have windows on them via bootcamp
<sevenseacat>
i always try to go least number of cycles.
<SteveBenner009>
workmad3 I am, on VM. I tried on desktokp and guess what? No native dual monitor support =(
<havenwood>
aye
<zendeavor>
havenwood: and i still need to separate the lib part from the chruby user-facing part
<SteveBenner009>
either that or I failed to understand how to effortlessly hack it
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<mrsolo>
sevenseacat, same here
<SteveBenner009>
I needs my monitors.....
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<sevenseacat>
i need to go back to my desktop and copy over all my saved solutions to my laptop
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<mrsolo>
sevenseacat, uploaded few on u tubte and of course nobody watch those
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<zendeavor>
havenwood: other than that, it's uhm...yeah i can't think of anything else (except some of it may be...*too* generic)
<sevenseacat>
y spacechem not support cloud syncing *shakes fist*
<flughafen>
i have windows servers at work i have to test with(once a year) but using windows makes me appreciate linux more. then using oracle products makes me appreciate windows
<sebastianb>
flughafen: btw, I would rather ditch gaming at all if I would have to play on console
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<workmad3>
SteveBenner009: yeah, graphics card support can be a bit finickety at times... the decent drivers are distributed by the vendors and aren't always available directly from the ubuntu repos due to licencing issues
<sebastianb>
consoles are only good for 'fighting' games. ie mortal kombat ;)
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<workmad3>
sebastianb: and platformers
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<workmad3>
sebastianb: 2d ones anyway :)
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<zendeavor>
havenwood: i hope to submit it to postmodern in near future, but i have doubts for it since it can't be tested. but i'm 99% certain it works on any shell/version that supports bash3+ featureset
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<sebastianb>
workmad3: the last 'platform' game I played is mario bros on nes :D
<workmad3>
sebastianb: and was it awesome? :P
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<sebastianb>
and it was called 'pegasus' btw
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<sebastianb>
workmad3: sure thing. I spent HOURS playing mario bros
<sebastianb>
and I never actually finished it
<sebastianb>
;D
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<workmad3>
:)
<flughafen>
i am terrible at gaming anyway
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<sebastianb>
everything takes practice, young padawan
<sebastianb>
;P
<workmad3>
flughafen: that's why I still prefer single-player games
<flughafen>
i dont play enough to be good at anything... and I go through phases,
<zendeavor>
havenwood: if you want to look over it again, it's the 040 branch of my chruby fork
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<sebastianb>
If I have time for gaming I only play fps'
<workmad3>
flughafen: so I can suck and it stays between me and the computer :)
<sebastianb>
bf3 in particular
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<mrsolo>
flughafen, then you will be great at spacechem
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<mrsolo>
flughafen, that is one programming simulator
<flughafen>
my computer beat me at chess, but it was no match for me in kickboxing
<havenwood>
zendeavor: nice, i will - i gotta test it out in 3.2 too, but bout to crash so will do later
<zendeavor>
well
<workmad3>
mrsolo: it ain't no 'simulator'... it's a visual programming language wrapped up into a storyline :)
<zendeavor>
i don't necessarily recommend you testing it so much yet
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<zendeavor>
i need to manually test it myself first more thoroughly
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<mrsolo>
hmm what storyline?
* mrsolo
goes check
<flughafen>
workmad3: yeah, i generally don't play online very much unless i have to, it just usually involves me being killed repeatedly
<havenwood>
zendeavor: kk, fun to poke at it though - see what breaks :)
<sebastianb>
You're a quitter
<sebastianb>
;)
<flughafen>
pretty much
<zendeavor>
havenwood: fair enough, you know where to find me
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<workmad3>
mrsolo: the storyline where you work for spacechem and weird monsters keep on trying to destroy your current office
<havenwood>
zendeavor: reminds me, i wanted to install mksh to try it out and can't get the darned thing to build - another for todo list
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<sebastianb>
sounds fun
<sebastianb>
...
<zendeavor>
havenwood: the user-facing chruby part isn't even fully implemented yet iirc so you may not be able to do `chruby 1.x' yet. i can't remember.
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<zendeavor>
and there are hardcoded paths to /etc/profile.d blah blah blah
<mrsolo>
workmad3, oh that.. the mind crack to keep the programmer working.. i mean people playing
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<sevenseacat>
lol
<havenwood>
zendeavor: last i looked it needed some niceties like --help too, i think
<zendeavor>
nope
<havenwood>
nice
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<SteveBenner009>
workmad3: yeah I have been learning there are many pros, and many cons to any solution.. all I know is I WANT MAH HACKINTOSH!!! haha\
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<zendeavor>
that's been there since day 1
<sevenseacat>
if only the steam spacechem could sync with the android spacechem
* flughafen
just got spacechem
<mrsolo>
wait
<zendeavor>
havenwood: i just cheated on the option parsing
<mrsolo>
there is a android spacechem
<SteveBenner009>
I seriously have investd 80+ hours already but I'm pretty sure my hardware combo is just uniquely borked
<workmad3>
mrsolo: suited for tablets
<SteveBenner009>
I'm going to just try again witha new motherboard
<sevenseacat>
there is
<mrsolo>
flughafen, oh oh..see you in a month
<SteveBenner009>
one with actual bios capabilities LOL.
<zendeavor>
havenwood: instead of case foo in -h|--help) ...;; esac
<havenwood>
zendeavor: ahhh, i probably just overlooked, i saw -v but i must be blind
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<zendeavor>
i should probably just go back to the longform
<zendeavor>
but
<zendeavor>
actually that's for you and postmodern to deal with ;]
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<zendeavor>
i'm not so fabulous at user-facing things. i do backends.
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<zendeavor>
is cool though, it's like a complete ruby-switcher api
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<havenwood>
sebastianb: you missed out on Super Mario Bros 2 then, that was the best!
<zendeavor>
huh
<zendeavor>
i have the first level theme of that in my head for 20 minutes now
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<havenwood>
good game
<zendeavor>
not even a mario game
<zendeavor>
just slapped mario's face on it
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<bnagy>
there is an ios space chem mobile.. is that the same?
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<sevenseacat>
i think i bought it there too
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<bnagy>
I do not want to buy the wrong "addictive, design-based puzzle game!"
<flughafen>
i bought spacechem for android
<mrsolo>
i think they the same
<mrsolo>
i played it on pc though
<sevenseacat>
yeah
<mrsolo>
you should play it on pc! it is only proper
<mrsolo>
since nobody programs on tablet!
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<bnagy>
I don't play games on my laptop
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<bnagy>
otherwise I'd never get any work done :/
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<jrobeson>
zendeavor, i disagree.. it is a mario game.. it's just not in the normal mario universe..
<sevenseacat>
haha
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<jrobeson>
the characters seem right to me..
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<jrobeson>
i enjoyed it a lot when it came out ..
<zendeavor>
no, it really isn't a mario game. nintendo just slapped mario, luigi, peach(princess toadstool) and toad on it and called it smb2
<zendeavor>
i can't recall the original title, but it's easy to google
<sevenseacat>
SMB2 was lame
<sevenseacat>
SMB3 was the shit
<zendeavor>
smb in 4:57 is the shit
<sevenseacat>
that i have not seen but will google
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<zendeavor>
andrewg holds the realtime WR
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<zets>
doki doki panic
<zendeavor>
that one
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<jrobeson>
mario 2 was better than the original imo..
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<jrobeson>
luigi could jump higher, the princess could float, toad could pick up turnips faster
<zendeavor>
it was alright
<zendeavor>
i never finished it
<flughafen>
oooh , i remember those sweet turnips
<jrobeson>
i did.. probably twice..
<jrobeson>
the only game from back then that i still play occasionally though is megaman2
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<jrobeson>
i remember trying quite a few times to beat quickman as the very first level
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<zendeavor>
some megaman speedruns are cool
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<jrobeson>
last time i tried to beat it.. i got stuck on that freakin dragon in dr wiley's castle..
<YaNakilon>
.inject :||
<YaNakilon>
doesn't work
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<YaNakilon>
how to be with ||?
<YaNakilon>
>> [nil, "asd", nil].inject :||
<eval-in>
YaNakilon => /tmp/execpad-635a4f9c6221/source-635a4f9c6221:2: syntax error, unexpected ||, expecting tSTRING_CONTENT or tSTRING_DBEG or tSTRING_DVAR or tSTRING_END (https://eval.in/44245)
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* flughafen
finds spacechem ridiculously small on my cell phone
<atmosx>
I need to configure the prompr to blnik when I'm about to push changes on the master branch lol
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<slap_stick>
hey, if a gem requires the use of something i.e. require 'module' but module isn't a gem itself, should it still be able to find it if the module is there but under the main site path?
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<slap_stick>
as i can require the modeul it requires under the same ruby version and same ruby_path, but the gem errors saying it can't find it , so i'm confued
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<atmosx>
slap_stick: is this your gem?
<zets>
where is the module located?
<MrZYX>
"main site path" = something you did or stdlib?
<atmosx>
too many questions
<atmosx>
I bet that there's a software somewhere deep down the NSA infrastructure that could hand us all the answers about slap_stick's gem path(s).
<slap_stick>
no, it's a gem i've installed, rspec-hiera-puppet gem to be precise, it is trying to require puppet, which is there, but it errors sayign it can't find it, it had a depdency on the puppet rubygem, which i removed, because puppet is natively installed
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<MrZYX>
and let me guess, you're using bundler?
<slap_stick>
nope i packaged it up as an rpm
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<atmosx>
rpm
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<atmosx>
does people still use this package manager?
<slap_stick>
ha
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<slap_stick>
they do indeed
<MrZYX>
hm, isn't dpkg older actually?
<atmosx>
slap_stick: awesome
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<atmosx>
MrZYX: yes and works way better, that's why projects like rpm didn't really had a meaning to begin with
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<atmosx>
MrZYX: but at the time every distribution had to had it's own package manager... and we ended up like this..
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<MrZYX>
I like the one my distribution has :P
<atmosx>
MrZYX: which is..
<MrZYX>
(my as in the one I use)
<atmosx>
?
<MrZYX>
pacman
<atmosx>
is that arch linux?
<zendeavor>
paaaacmaaaaan
<MrZYX>
yup
<zendeavor>
is it really arch, or a bogus derivative
<zendeavor>
shun the non-believers
<atmosx>
MrZYX: does pacman support binaries?
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<MrZYX>
binary packages? yes
<atmosx>
nice
<zendeavor>
technically that's all it handles
<atmosx>
the only package managers I like/use (or used to use) are portage and ports (*bsd) and apt-get which is supreme and rulling imho.
<atmosx>
never used arch, i was using gentoo for many yeras though
<flughafen>
there is nothing really wrong with rpm, it works fine
<atmosx>
anywya
<atmosx>
bb
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<bnagy>
pacman has, hands down, the best progress bar though
<bnagy>
which I think is important
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<bnagy>
rpm is fucking insane crap bullshit
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<zendeavor>
uhm
<bnagy>
"it works fine" until it shits in its own binary DB and is impossible to recover
<MrZYX>
I actually like pacman that much because writing packages for it is so easy
<MrZYX>
no more tempted to sudo make install ever
<bnagy>
but hey
<atmosx>
hey
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<flughafen>
but i've been using rpm based distros since 1997? never once had an issue with the database...(anectdotal) although, it doesn't make a lot of sense imho to use the berkeleydb that way
<flughafen>
what does dpkg use anyway?
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<flughafen>
i've used debian before, off and on, but never really got into dpkgs
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<slap_stick>
ok resolved it now, was all in the gemspec file
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<slap_stick>
i need food
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<_br_>
Coffee! :)
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<botspot87>
is there any way to guarantee a all-or-nothing atomic transaction in ruby (not necessarily involving databases or files (using the native move operation)) something link my_atomic_operation { get_file_a; do_something_useful; delete_file_a} . Can someone point me a direction
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<bnagy>
ensure I guess
<bnagy>
or block form of file ops
<bnagy>
but 'real' atomicity is something that DBs etc provide
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<_br_>
botspot87: Mutex?
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<ZenGuy311>
zeb
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<_br_>
bnagy: Nonsense. Mutex, Critical Section, Semaphores all go into the direction of ensuring atomic behavior. Except if you mean ACID.
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<bnagy>
_br_: no.
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<bnagy>
a mutex just protects the resource against concurrent access from threads in your process
<bnagy>
that's not the usual concept of atomicity
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<bnagy>
and I'm not even sure that MRI mutex is 'properly' safe against cexts, but leaving that aside...
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<bnagy>
the actual question is kind of vague
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<_br_>
I'm curious. What is the "usual concept of atomicity" ?
<bnagy>
'guarantee that nothing else touches this while I am messing with it'
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<_br_>
So why would a Mutex not do the job?
<bnagy>
mutex doesn't do that
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<bnagy>
cause it only applies to the ruby threads in that one process
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<_br_>
Well, nobody said we are dealing with multiple processes here.
<bnagy>
uh huh
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<bnagy>
I'll just leave for a while while you try and sound like you didn't actually say a stupid thing
<bnagy>
then come back, ok?
<_br_>
Nonsense.
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<_br_>
The way the question is phrased a Mutex is a valid solution. Atomicity does not mean ACID.
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<botspot87>
_br_: I don't mean to protecte against concurrency. Actually i have a single threaded routine running here. I was wondering if there was any existing library where i could wrap a bunch of operations and have it performed atomically for me
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<botspot87>
_br_: but now it seems to me that this is more like a pattern than something "ready from ruby"
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<botspot87>
_br_: Maybe I have to save all my objects states prior to change them, and after wrap then in a begin ...rescue block and rollback the state if an exception occurs
<botspot87>
Does it make sense, or there is any better solution out there?
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<botspot87>
bnagy: any good solution for the atomicity question ?
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<bnagy>
what are you trying to protect from?
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<bnagy>
an exception while changing stuff?
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<botspot87>
bnagy: Basically I want to read an information from a file, insert it as a row in a DB and delete that information inside the file
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<_br_>
botspot87: If its single threaded anyway, why all the fuss?
<botspot87>
bnagy: all that should succeed or fail together
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<_br_>
ah
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<_br_>
begin/rescue/ensure/end block...
<bnagy>
^ that
<botspot87>
_br_: simple, if I read from a file, and the connection from the db is broken, I have an undesired state
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<bnagy>
I guess maybe save cursor, db.insert(fh.readline) rescue #reset cursore
<bnagy>
but it's kind of ugly :(
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<botspot87>
_br_: yeah but that is more then using begin rescue end block it seams to me that i have to save the state of this objects anyway to have something to rescue afterwards
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<botspot87>
brb
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<_br_>
Well, Ruby operations are not Idempotent and this is not a single assignment or message based system, so certainly you need to put more effort on it to keep the system consistent.
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<shevy>
wat
<shevy>
ruby operations are impotent?
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<_br_>
;)
<lupine>
well, some ruby operations are idempotent
<lupine>
a = 1, for instance
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<_br_>
Doesn't make the langauge less mutation based.
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<lupine>
certainly
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<_br_>
Would be interesting though. Are there any gems that enforce single assignment only?
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<lupine>
hope not
<lupine>
;)
<_br_>
hehe why not that together with celluloid and we can "fake" erlang :D
<_br_>
at least until we have a true STM solution.
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<shevy>
that would be kinda cool
<shevy>
ruby 3.0 to become ruby-erlang
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<botspot87>
_br_: finally back! I was wondering if there was an easy way to perfom that all together, but for me is pointing in a direction of saving object state, using begin..rescue..ensure..block . Like a memento design pattern
<_br_>
I wish. EVM and OTP can't really be that easily reproduced though. The hot-loading of code and crazy robustness is pretty awesome though in Erlang.
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<shevy>
immortal and robust ruby objects!
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<_br_>
botspot87: Sounds about right, if you use a ruby only solution.
<lupine>
don't forget, you can bypass ensure block if you're evil, or your libraries are
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<_br_>
good point
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<shevy>
you can?
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<_br_>
shevy: Did you try Reia or Elixir lang on EVM?
<shevy>
shamefully I did not
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<_br_>
kind of ruby like, quite fun..
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<trinode>
c
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<shevy>
hehe
<shevy>
always C
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<trinode>
my irc client is messed up, white on white in the text window :/
<trinode>
meh, I'll sort it later
<trinode>
is this the right place to get help compiling / installing a difficult gem?
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<trinode>
right, reinstalled mysql
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<trinode>
OH FFS
<trinode>
there's a space in the subfolders
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<trinode>
C:/Ruby200-x64/lib/ruby/gems/2.0.0/gems/mysql2-0.3.13/lib/mysql2.rb:8:in `require': 126: The specified module could not be found. - C:/Ruby200-x64/lib/ruby/gems/2.0.0/gems/mysql2-0.3.13/lib/mysql2/mysql2.so (LoadError)
<workmad3>
trinode: ah, that one just gives you ruby
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<workmad3>
trinode: if you want to do rails dev on windows, I'd suggest you use railsinstaller and use sqlite with it for now ;)
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<clocKwize>
moral of the story, use linux or osx, if you can't work out how to get linux in a vm, don't bother at all
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<trinode>
VM sounds appealing, but my SSD may struggle (capacity)
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<workmad3>
clocKwize: I'd see the moral more as 'if you're going to work on windows, either be really comfortable with debugging weird toolchain issues, or make sure you only use stuff that has precompiled binaries'
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<workmad3>
otherwise use a VM or dual boot :)
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<trinode>
I'm a little suprised mysql isn't precompiled
<clocKwize>
workmad3: who's prepared to debug weird toolchain issues? not me thats for sure, I wanna get shit done!
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<shevy>
hehehe
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<workmad3>
trinode: rubygems don't tend to come with precompiled extensions... it makes them much harder to keep up to date compared to compiling the extension against dev headers on install
<workmad3>
Xeago_: you can't use the || style params in the block
<workmad3>
Xeago_: it's a frickin syntax error
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<Xeago_>
why wouldn't -> {|param| abc;} be ok?
<Xeago_>
stupid syntax
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<workmad3>
Xeago_: so my fingers, which are wired for coffeescript and normal ruby blocks go '(foo,bar)-> {code}' 'oh wait, this is ruby' '-> {|foo,bar| code}' *boom* FY STABBY LAMBDA
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<shevy>
hehe
<Xeago_>
I don't understand why they didn't just replace lambda with -> ?
<workmad3>
Xeago_: because FUCK YOU... that's why
<Xeago_>
fook that
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<workmad3>
btw, I may be somewhat annoyed at several of the ruby 1.9 syntax additions that make it just really frickin easy to completely mess up when you switch between ruby and coffeescript or javascript a lot :)
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<workmad3>
and my annoyance with them only increases over time :D
<shevy>
haha
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<shevy>
I hated them always
<shevy>
no
<shevy>
not all of them
<wuest>
I actually rather like them.
<wuest>
symbol: and -> in particular
<shevy>
but the -> I hate
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<workmad3>
wuest: {symbol: val} annoys me because {"string": val} isn't valid (which is a PITA because the first isn't valid JSON and the second is)
<ericwood>
I avoid the JSON-style hash syntax, especially when symbols are the values
<workmad3>
wuest: -> is annoying because they've gone a really deviant way for passing params to it
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<ericwood>
{foo: :val} is ugly
<shevy>
ack
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<wuest>
workmad3: That I absolutely agree with.
<workmad3>
ericwood: I tend to find myself using it a fair bit... but yeah, it's not brilliant :)
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<wuest>
ericwood: I rarely (never?) end up having symbols point to symbols. I agree, that's ugly.
<ericwood>
workmad3: my rule of thumb: if there's no symbols as values I use it
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<ericwood>
wuest: it's a common pattern in rails for flags
<wuest>
Ahhh
<wuest>
I don't do rails, so that's why I haven't seen it
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<ericwood>
I never really see it outside of flags
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<ericwood>
and I love the hashrocket
<ericwood>
pew pew pew => => =>
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<shevy>
lol
<ericwood>
<=>
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<shevy>
matz added -> so he can remove something for ruby 3.0
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<wuest>
I've never really considered the hashrocket brilliant. I didn't like it in perl either.
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<wuest>
shevy - wasn't that the point of the named arguments implementation?
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<shevy>
I really don't know
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<shevy>
to me it feels a bit more like "let's try to make ruby more feature rich"
<wuest>
I'd really like flexible -> syntax though. (foo,bar)-> is much better than ->{|foo,bar|} -- I think the latter is worse, and I don't ever code coffeescript
<ericwood>
it's just new syntax for existing features
<ericwood>
that's hardly feature creep
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<waxjar>
Lua's hash-like syntax is pretty neat: { key = value, key = value }
<ericwood>
I, for one, welcome our new stabby lambda overlords
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<wuest>
I admit, something which allows me to keep expressiveness while reducing charcount per line is something I consider a win--I also strictly limit lines to 79c
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<ericwood>
expressiveness is really important to me
<ericwood>
it's why I love ruby
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<ericwood>
and have a fucked up weird love for javascript
<waxjar>
meh, javascript syntax i do not like
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<wuest>
I have a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome when it comes to ECMAScript
<ericwood>
waxjar: it grew on me
<ericwood>
mostly due to stockholm syndrome
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<ericwood>
but I find the way it does some things to be super expressive
<wuest>
I don't even DO web coding, but I like ES for some reason.
<ericwood>
it's pretty minimal as a language, which I dig
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<waxjar>
i especially dislike how anonymous functions look when passed to another function
<waxjar>
dat ending: });
<ericwood>
lol
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<wuest>
waxjar: true
<ericwood>
I got so upset at this little piece of code I grabbed the other day
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<ericwood>
the guy wrote it in coffeescript
<ericwood>
and made the compiled version available
<waxjar>
haha
<ericwood>
but the way the compiler did it was like this:
<hanmac>
unless does not call the ! method with can be overwritten … so if(!obj) and unless(obj) may react different if someone plays with the ! method
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<ericwood>
aha
<ericwood>
okay that makes sense
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<ericwood>
I always assumed it called it
<hanmac>
but that is also the reason why unless is a little bit faster
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<ericwood>
any reduction in the number of calls is faster
<ericwood>
but seems neglegible
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<ericwood>
then again, I don't really ROFLScale
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<apeiros>
Xeago_: no, I don't know why *!*@freenode/staff/* is not on the ACL. I guess fflush just never set that up.
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<apeiros>
sorry for the rather late reply. but was busy today.
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<joshmyers>
hey guys, anyone know if passenger 3 supports passenger_pre_start and not just in passenger 4?
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<zeroXten>
i should probably be put in jail for the kind of monkey patching i've just done
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<giarc>
i've got a basic newb question: i am using rvm and i _think_ i want to use bundle when installing/using gems in order to keep specific gem versions tied to my project? ( in python, i would use virtualenv )
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<giarc>
i have seen a few different ways suggested, and i am not sure which to use
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<ayonix>
giarc: so far I've also only used rvm/bundler and haven't got much trouble yet
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<giarc>
@ayonix: ok, thanks.
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<havenwood>
giarc: What'd you ask, just curious? (Many of us are just waking up West coast.)
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<havenwood>
West siiiiide.
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<llaskin>
is there a way to have minitest run tests in series, without running setup/teardown between each test?
<giarc>
@havenwood: i've got a basic newb question: i am using rvm and i _think_ i want to use bundle when installing/using gems in order to keep specific gem versions tied to my project? ( in python, i would use virtualenv )
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<havenwood>
giarc: Yeah, a Gemfile with Bundler is a canonical way. You put gem deps in your Gemfile, commit the Gemfile.lock that results, when you want to vendor local gems and deploy: bundle --deployment
<giarc>
@havenwood: thanks, i was just not sure if it was the "right" method or not, had seen revn and sandboox as suggestions also…it _seemed_ right, but...
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<spike|spiegel>
havenwood: one of the gazillion reasons I hate bundler is that, it expects you run that shit on production.
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<spike|spiegel>
no, sorry, not happening
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<giarc>
@spike|spike|spiegel: what are any of the other gazillion reasons you hate bundler?
<giarc>
and, do you use something in its place?
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<spike|spiegel>
where to start? that it molests RUBYOPT?
<spike|spiegel>
no, I kind of half use it, only on dev.
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<giarc>
on prod you just use system wide gems?
<spike|spiegel>
gem files are checked into repo, checksum'd and matched on deploys
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<banisterfiend>
which is the best free alternative to microsoft office ? (for osx)
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<apeiros>
probably still openoffice/libreoffice
<godzirra>
Hi guys. I'm trying to parse a json file with this code: http://pastebin.com/gRa7KVE9 and its reading the same json file both for the sinatra code and the command line code. For some reason the sinatra code dies with "Can't convert array into string" on the JSON.parse line. What am I doing wrong?
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<hanmac>
godzirra: hm look at the RUBY_VERSION inside of both, are they the same or different?
<llaskin>
banisterfiend: openoffice probably
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<godzirra>
hanmac: It should be the same. I'm running them both from the same command line as "ruby test_parking.rb" and "ruby sinatra_parking.rb"
<godzirra>
From the same window and everything
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<bi0xid>
hello there. Can someone help me with an issue? [ERROR] cannot load such file -- typhoeus - tried everything on the net about it (MacosX)
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<hanmac>
godzirra did you have an json gem or something like that? is Json.method(:parse).source_location does that shows you the same?
<shevy>
you give us only a bit code, but the error code be somewhere else
<shevy>
syntax error, unexpected kWHEN
<shevy>
so the first question Monie
<Monie>
When I take this out, everything is working fine.
<shevy>
- Where is "case"?
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<shevy>
will you show the full file or will you not
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<Monie>
I can't show the other part as it contains code I am not allowed to show
<mostlybadfly>
Hi all
<shevy>
hey mostlybadfly
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<MrZYX>
Monie: then write a minimal example reproducing your error
<Morrolan>
Monie: Then replace the actual functionality with goop, the thing which'll help with fixing your error is seeing the various structures. (Conditions, loops, ...)
<mostlybadfly>
I'm interested in learning. Any particular method or text you recommend?
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<Morrolan>
Best bet is that you didn't use a 'case' statement.
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<mostlybadfly>
Oh I see there is documentation on the site about getting started
<workmad3>
mostlybadfly: learning to program by chris pine, programming ruby, ruby koans, I think there's some codeschool tutorials too...
<shevy>
it gives an overview over ruby... you understand string objects... you also know some keywords like "yield" ... you will also understand what a block is
<shevy>
mostlybadfly, but never forget, the best way is to start writing scripts completely on your own, ideally do so for some days, then immediately start to make gems
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<shevy>
gems will force you to have a solid structure for your projects/code
<mostlybadfly>
Ah ok
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<shevy>
:)
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<mostlybadfly>
I'm completely new to programming so all these concepts will be new to me
<shevy>
yeah
<shevy>
I started with perl, then php
* Morrolan
waves the VB.NET pole
<shevy>
now I need to decide for .. C or C++ or C# or Go or Java... and I hate them all
<mostlybadfly>
My bf is working with Ruby in his new job so I thought I'd join him and start there
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<Morrolan>
shevy: Java's not too bad, just very verbose. :)
<shevy>
:(
<shevy>
ruby spoiled me
<shevy>
I hate verbosity
<Morrolan>
Hehe.
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<mostlybadfly>
shevy: so you mean not relying on prebuit scripts. Write and save my own?
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<shevy>
Morrolan I really think verbosity is a curse ... I am very much in favour of trying to express an idea, readable if possible, but at any rate, to be terse (unless it makes the code not understandable, or too complicated)
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<shevy>
mostlybadfly yes
<Morrolan>
Oh, I agree.
<shevy>
mostlybadfly even if your code sucks at first, you will learn more that way
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<mostlybadfly>
All language has a tendency to drift towards less verbose models
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<shevy>
mostlybadfly lateron, a big trick is to know what ruby offers for you to use, for instance
<mostlybadfly>
In general I mean spoken language
<shevy>
.each .any? .all? .reject .scan .grep
<shevy>
well, spoken languages are different
<shevy>
if you write a poem
<mostlybadfly>
Yeah that's going to be a big deal i take it
<shevy>
or a roman... a thriller, novel ... you can be verbose and it can be beautiful
<shevy>
but when you write for a computer to do things for you, I think being verbose is annoying
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<workmad3>
verbose boilerplate is annoying
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<mostlybadfly>
Right but I just mean language in daily usage tends to simplify as it progresses
<workmad3>
unnecessary terseness can also be annoying
<shevy>
java is indeed rather wide-spread ... but I don't know... I just can't overcome my inertia
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<hanmac>
shevy that reminds me i need to collect more infos for a possible roman ;P
<shevy>
omg
<mostlybadfly>
I studied linguistics and I'm curious to see if anything applies
<shevy>
in german hanmac ?
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<huf>
do you guys mean a "novel"?
<shevy>
btw hanmac do you know Beliar from #parpg? he is also from germany and a coder (python mostly and C)
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<shevy>
huf yeah
<hanmac>
shevy yeah … or do you want that i write it in english too?
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<shevy>
hanmac no... german please :D
<workmad3>
mostlybadfly: it might do... however, keep in mind that programming languages have a lot less drift in syntax and grammar than a spoken language
<hanmac>
shevy no, i think there are more good coders then just two of us ;P
<workmad3>
mostlybadfly: because if we get those things wrong, our code just doesn't work, while in spoken (and written) language, deviation from commonly used syntax and grammar can still lead to understanding :)
<shevy>
yes... but that's it for games, folks ought to stay connected, loosely at least
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<shevy>
mostlybadfly well, pattern matching is part of how the human brain works
<yxhuvud>
workmad3: they do? Have you looked at 1ed k&r style c?
<shevy>
I am sure if you are good at pattern matching languages, you can learn them faster or pick them up faster
<yxhuvud>
stuff like variable definitions. yikes.
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<workmad3>
mostlybadfly: I'd also disagree a bit that language has a simplifying trend... we might be on a local downward trend atm (although that's probably not fully conclusive), however if you look at the broader range of human language and consider the complexity and sophistication of concepts that are in common usage now compared to historical use, I suspect you'll find a major upward trend ;)
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<shevy>
ok, see
<shevy>
yield if block_given?
<shevy>
is ruby
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<shevy>
but so is
<shevy>
->() {}
<shevy>
# => #<Proc:0x9008760@(irb):1 (lambda)>
<shevy>
mostlybadfly don't get confused! simply ignore all that confuses you in ruby
<shevy>
you can use only 5% of ruby and it still is better than 100% of php
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<mostlybadfly>
Monie: I'm thinking more of predominance of lax features in romance languages I've studied. Further simplification of phelonetic traits from Spanish to Portuguese are prevalent even though the vowel system is decidedly more complex
<Monie>
;o
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<mostlybadfly>
The language in general has more simplified forms such as a weakening of roticity in certain phonemes or diphthongization
<mostlybadfly>
This is my only background so i can't speak for all
<shevy>
I like the portuguese language
<shevy>
but not that famous singing part...
<workmad3>
mostlybadfly: ah, at that level I don't really have any background knowledge to fall back on
<mostlybadfly>
I also think of the great vowel shifts were various phonemes were eliminated
<hanmac>
shevy i like the korean font … it looks so spaceic ;P … but it doesnt sound "right" for some reason ...
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<visof>
is there a convenient way to write a string with multiple " as example: ""hello","world","foo","bar""
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<visof>
i need \ for inside "
<shevy>
korean fonts are ok
<apeiros>
visof: a) use single quotes
<apeiros>
b) use %{} literal
<shevy>
much easier to understand than chinese font
<shevy>
hanmac yeah, I think latin alphabet beats them due to simplicity alone
<banisterfiend>
>> o = Object.new; def o.method_missing(name, *args); "method name is #{name}"; end; o.goobity_goobity_glug
<eval-in>
banisterfiend => "method name is goobity_goobity_glug" (https://eval.in/44424)
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<banisterfiend>
hurrrtin ^
<hurrrtin>
and then *args would be a hash of whatever else was passed to the method?
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<hanmac>
hurrrtin: look at respond_to_missing? for more fun and pun ;P
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<davidcelis>
does anybody alive actually prefer """ over HEREDOCs
<banisterfiend>
hurrrtin an array of args
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<yxhuvud>
do """ even work in ruby? I thought that was a pythonism
<banisterfiend>
davidcelis """ is a cute joke :P
<hanmac>
davidcelis """ does not work in ruby, i think you are in the wrong channel
<banisterfiend>
yxhuvud it works but only as a joke
<banisterfiend>
yxhuvud "hello" "baby" works in ruby as it does in C
<hanmac>
banisterfiend: and he maybe should also look at **opts ;P
<yxhuvud>
ah yes, true.
<banisterfiend>
it concatenates those strings together
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<davidcelis>
i just caught some usage of """ this bullshit """ in our app
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<hanmac>
davidcelis this part is valid ruby too: 5 . to_s
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<banisterfiend>
hanmac you been keeping up with AT ?
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<yxhuvud>
hanmac: here is another string for you: % c .upcase
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<hurrrtin>
Even with using method_missing, it still throws undefined method error. Do I need to do something else?
<RubNoob>
anyone have a suggestion for a gem that could do output to the console like the "top" command?
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<hanmac>
banisterfiend: last weekend i watched the last episodes i missed … imo its sad that finn and FP are not together anymore … i think if finn now comes together with PB .. it would get ugly … (and PB lost her shirt from MC … i dont know if she can forgive that)
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<banisterfiend>
hanmac do you notice finn's voice has broken? :)
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<sebcioz>
@RubNoob look for ncurses ruby
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<RubNoob>
sebcioz perfect, thank you!
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<hanmac>
banisterfiend: hm not so much … but the LemonTribe still creeps me out … (specialy the small one in the clock)
<hurrrtin>
nvm- since its not instantiated, I had to do self.method_missing
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<banisterfiend>
hanmac Are you a fan The Earl ?
<banisterfiend>
of
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<hanmac>
no, they are creeepy … (spealy the small one that opens his head while screaming)
<hanmac>
banisterfiend: did you notice that in the Povoy Episode that Adult!Finn was voiced by Riker from StarTrek? ;P
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<banisterfiend>
hanmac no, good spotting
<banisterfiend>
hanmac lemon grab is my role model
<hanmac>
banisterfiend: i only read about but his voice was "ALPHANUMERIC" ;D
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<RubNoob>
sebcioz do you know how to clear an entire line using the Curses lib for Ruby?
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<platzhirsch>
In the Set source code they use the statement "enum.nil? and return" in the initialize method.
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<platzhirsch>
Haven't see this way of writing a return if condition statement, is that very idiomatic? ;)
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<Morrolan>
I'd doubt that.
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<canton7>
if I'm understanding you properly, they're called "early exit" or "guard conditions"
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<canton7>
they're pretty idiomatic in a lot of languages
<pipework>
Isn't idiomatic a bit of a misnomer for that kind of thing?
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<canton7>
common, then :P
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<Morrolan>
canton7: Of course, but his question was why they were using 'enum.nil? and return' instead of 'return if enum.nil?' :)
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<canton7>
aha I missed the quotes
<canton7>
that makes more sense
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<canton7>
that sounds like more of a perlism?
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<Morrolan>
Probably, yea. :P
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<pothibo>
anyone installed rbenv in arch linux? I have a few issues. First it uses /usr/local/var which doesn't exist( I created it wiht 777 perm right now just to make it work) now, rbenv plugins aren't discovered( rbenv install does not exist even tho I installed it in rbenv/plugins/
<pipework>
I typically just use chruby and ruby-install
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<mfilipe>
I'm trying to create a monkey patch on ActionMailer but it doesn't work: https://gist.github.com/mfilipe/6299079 . If I coded correctly, the execution has to stop on debugger in the brazilian-rails_actionmailer_fix.rb file.
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<postmodern>
Morrolan, lol
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<pothibo>
why does AUR want me to edit pkgbuild of chruby
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<Morrolan>
pothibo: I don't think it does?
<Morrolan>
postmodern: :)
<pothibo>
I am sure it does
<Morrolan>
I doubt it does.
<Morrolan>
It never did with me!
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<pothibo>
dude. If I say it did, it's possible it's because I was just asked this?
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<pothibo>
ok so chruby doesn't install ruby..
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<postmodern>
pothibo, correct for that you can use ruby-install or ruby-build
<pothibo>
yeah
<postmodern>
pothibo, or do it manually
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<mfilipe>
I'm trying to create a monkey patch on ActionMailer but it doesn't work: https://gist.github.com/mfilipe/6299079 . If I coded correctly, the execution has to stop on debugger in the brazilian-rails_actionmailer_fix.rb file. Someone knows what is wrong?
<Morrolan>
pothibo: Oh, there's a disclaimer somewhere that it might be a good idea to take a look at the PKGBUILD's contents, to make sure that it's nothing malicious. Did you mean that one? :)
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<pothibo>
well, installing ruby on a new box, not so quick...
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<apeiros>
aces1up: because .* eats up your digits
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<aces1up>
ok got it.
<aces1up>
thanks.
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<cek>
how do I define a let! in rspec that would be evaluated each time it's referenced in specs?
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<cek>
except defining a simple method :)
<Mon_Ouie>
Why would you not define a simple method?
<yxhuvud>
simple is better than complicated!
<cek>
truth said!
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<pipework>
cek: You'd probably pass a lambda in and call it?
<cek>
yea, but that requires typing []
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<pipework>
Not sure what that is supposed to mean to me.
<apeiros>
programming requires typing, news at eleven
<|PiP|>
is there an easy day to merge a yaml file?
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<|PiP|>
with conflicting keys
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<cek>
|PiP|, no!
<apeiros>
|PiP|: you can't merge yaml *files*. you can merge the parsed data.
<apeiros>
and there: Hash#merge accepts a block for conflicting keys.
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<|PiP|>
i have a single yaml file that has conflicting keys
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<|PiP|>
how would i convert that to another yaml file that has all the keys merged
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<apeiros>
not with yaml. you'd have to write a custom parser.
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<apeiros>
or dig in yaml innards, maybe it provides a way to stream keys. sax yaml, so to speak.
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<shevy>
|PiP| load it into ruby, modify your yaml file in ruby, save the dump in ruby to a yaml file again
<dkamioka>
hello!
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<shevy>
hello dkamioka
<shevy>
are you new to ruby
<dkamioka>
not sooo new.
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<dkamioka>
y?
<dkamioka>
why?
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<shevy>
dkamioka because you wrote hello
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<pipework>
hello
<apeiros>
seasoned developers use the newer protocol and say EHLO
<MrZYX>
oh, I thought SYN?
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<apeiros>
NACK
<MrZYX>
:(
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<shevy>
cvs
<shevy>
seasoned devs use cvs
<aedorn>
not a YAML store?
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<Nilium>
Seasoned devs use darcs.
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* apeiros
thinks only seasoned devs get the joke behind EHLO :-p
<shevy>
nah
<shevy>
a YAML store would force them into UTF
<dkamioka>
lol
<dkamioka>
I may not be a seasoned dev. then :)
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<dkamioka>
next time will try PING
<dkamioka>
maybe PONG.
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<dkamioka>
Is a PepperDev a Seasoned dev?
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<shevy>
what is a pepper dev
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<shevy>
is that like a salt dev but uses pepper?
<dkamioka>
shevy: :)
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<dkamioka>
SYN
<dkamioka>
better? ;)
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<shevy>
no idea
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<shevy>
I dont understand a word man
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<dkamioka>
shevy: maybe im too old then.
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<dualbus>
Hello, I found a rather counter-intuitive behavior when using the erb and ostruct modules like this: http://sprunge.us/XhXG I would expect that the environment created by the OpenStruct to be isolated from the global namespace, but it seems to be the contrary. Also, I wonder how a definition that occurs after can affect a statement.
<dkamioka>
or maybe too low level. :)
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<dualbus>
(I would expect the declaration of the outer 'a' not to affect running the template)
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<dualbus>
And even more, even if it does collide, I would expect it to have effect only if the definition was before, not after running the template.
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<apeiros>
dualbus: blocks are closures
<apeiros>
the binding within the instance_eval block still has access to all lvars from outside.
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<dualbus>
apeiros: but, before I even assign to it?
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<apeiros>
?
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<dualbus>
I mean, if I had something like: a = [1,2,3]; template.run(os.instance_eval {binding}) it should totally make sense to me, because 'a' exists before template.run
<dualbus>
but since it's: template.run(os.instance_eval {binding}); a = [1,2,3]
<dualbus>
I don't understand how that 'a' *after* template.run can affect it.
<apeiros>
"before I assign to it" != before the parser knows it's there
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<dualbus>
apeiros: ah, ok, now it's clearer.
<apeiros>
an lvar which may not even be assigned to at all can come to existence simply by the parser seeing an assignment to it
<apeiros>
and "comes to existence" --> is set to nil
<dualbus>
apeiros: and the parser first consumes the whole script and then executes it? in that case, it makes a lot of sense.
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<apeiros>
I don't think so, no
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<apeiros>
I don't know when the parser will know an lvar "ahead of time"
<apeiros>
rule of thumb is simply: don't shadow stuff with lvars.
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<dualbus>
apeiros: thanks, that's a good advice. But I still have a remaining issue, how would I then isolate the variables of the OpenStruct, or however it's called from the outer environment.
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<dualbus>
I don't want to be worrying about which variables I already defined outside vs the ones inside the openstruct.
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<apeiros>
which is why def X.method would work too (both inside and outside the class - def self.method obviously only works inside the class, since outside, self will no longer be the class)
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<dualbus>
apeiros: that's nice.
<dualbus>
I'm still amazed by the "everthing is an object thing". Well, thank you very much apeiros. I'll get back to code.
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<Thav>
I've got a process that imports a data set into postgres. I've written it to use threads. I've noticed that as it runs, the times for database queries in the console are often much larger than how they run in postgres. Like a simple begin takes 0.15 ms on postgres but the ruby console shows over 500ms. What could be causing this?
<Thav>
ruby 1.9.3 and pg 0.15
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<zeroXten>
is there anyway of keeping a type when using map? So I've got a MyClass object, when I do obj.map { blah } I get an array. I'd really like it to stay as MyClass
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<zeroXten>
well, I'm actually doing a self.map inside the class's method
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<mostlybadfly>
hey guys as i'm working through the Pine text do you recommend any particular text editor ?
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<xybre>
mostlybadfly: what OS?
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<mostlybadfly>
or would something like an IDE work best? just did my first install of ruby :P
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<brisbin>
i could never not use vim, most beginners go with textmate though
<mostlybadfly>
Linux Mint
<brisbin>
or sublime
<brisbin>
zeroXten: i don't follow can you rephrase or paste sample code?
<mostlybadfly>
would it be beneficial to learn vim? i've tried but never had to really work in it to get very far
<xybre>
mostlybadfly: I use Vim on *nix systems mostly. Sublime also runs on Linux.
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<brisbin>
vim is a joy
<mostlybadfly>
ah i see
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<mostlybadfly>
maybe i should take the opportunity to learn how to navigate that as well
<xybre>
When I need to do some editing on a non *nix system I use Sublime or sometimes KomodoEdit. But on Linux and OSx always vim.
<zeroXten>
brisbin: if you've got a random class that acts like an enumerator, then any of the enumerator methods will always return Array, not the class that it was originally
<zeroXten>
is there any way around that?
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<brisbin>
just define #map youself
<brisbin>
yourself*
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<xybre>
zeroXten: it might have something to do with your each or map implementation.
<zeroXten>
but I'd have to do that for each of the enumerator methods
<brisbin>
what does your #each return?
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<xybre>
zeroXten: No, most of the Enumerable are implemented using #each.
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<xybre>
spundun: it appears to install itself into Haml directly, so use it through Haml
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<spundun>
ohhh, duh! thanks!
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<Mon_Ouie>
zeroXten: There aren't many methods in Enumerable that return an array (and the reason they do that is simply that they don't know how to insert an element in an instance of your class and how to get an empty one; not to mention it is impossible for certain classes even though they do include Enumerable)
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<spundun>
xybre: I tried putting "= hb 'App.widgetController.title'" in my haml file, but I'm getting error when I do that. It seems like haml is not picking up hamlbars gem
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<xybre>
spundun: did you "require" the hamlbars files?
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<spundun>
I have no RoR setup, I'm not writing any ruby code at the moment. I have a directory with a test.html.haml (I also tried test.html.hamlbars) I'm invoking "haml test.html.haml" command
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<spundun>
I'm not aware of any "require" statements within haml file, so I haven't put anything like that in there.
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<xybre>
spundun: I see. Then if the `haml` executable doesn't have a parameter for require libraries you'll have to write a wrapper script for it that does.
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<xybre>
spundun: which I just checked and `haml` does indeed have a `--require` switch :)
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<spundun>
yeah I just checked the same thing
<spundun>
:)
<spundun>
I still get the same error though :(
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<spundun>
I'm new to web-dev , trying out rails, grails, haml, emberjs, angularjs, mongodb, compass
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<spundun>
tomorrow there's an emberjs meetup in santa monica, so trying to get some basics before that
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<raij>
hi I am trying to set up a development environment on Debian Wheezy for RoR using Apache2 + passenger. I am having an issue with the Apache configuration for passenger. Am I in the right place to find an answer for this type of an issue?
<spundun>
thanks for the sanity check xybre
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<spundun>
there's #RubyOnRails but I'm new here so YMMV
<shevy>
RedPunch, it rejects all entries that match the condition you give it in the {} block
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<shevy>
RedPunch, in the example above, it is true/false to the question "are you a directory, buddy!"
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<xybre>
spundun: Ah. Well then why does he have a problem? O_o
<shevy>
RedPunch now you should be able to match it, once you have all directories, you formulate your query ... all_directories.any? {|directory| directory == 'tests' }
<spundun>
xybre: I don't know! I tested his script on my mac and It works!
<joshu>
if there are no users, there is no one to transfer calls to because the office is closed if that makes sense
<pontiki>
ok
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<pontiki>
so you need to know who's the next person to route the call to, yes?
<joshu>
so each user has his/her own office hours.
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<pontiki>
this has a few issues
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<pontiki>
what happens when someone is sick, or has to be out of the office during a time they would normally have been in
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<joshu>
yes more or less. Every time the app is started, the app needs to check if the current time matches an user's office hours and create the array.
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<pontiki>
is this for a real setting, or is this like an assignment?
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<pontiki>
if it's just an assignment, we can bounce along with this
<shevy>
I have a module, let's call it module Foo; end ... in this module I want to set or unset a state, called "use_colours" ... is this possible? or must I use a class to toggle state
<joshu>
pontiki very good point. So each user has a pre-defined office hours as I show in the stack overflow question. If however a user cannot be available, e.g. sick then the user can for that day only set a time period when he/she should be off duty. This wouldd be done via web interface.
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<joshu>
so a user has the ability to "override" his/her office hours for the current day only. Either "all-day" or "8:00 - 11:30" as examples.
<joshu>
then the predefined values are back in effect.
<pontiki>
so wouldn't your basic in-out board be better? user comes in to sit their shift, move marker to "in", end of shift, move marker to "out"
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<pontiki>
what if they're in ER?
<pontiki>
i know this is complicating things possibly from your view
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<joshu>
pontiki I see what you mean…like typical "log in" "log out" system. Problem is the 5 users who are going to use this. They have repeatedly told me they find logging in/ out a pain and often forget. This is why I've opted for the reverse system in which they are by default "logged in" during their pre-defined office hours and instead need to override when not to receive calls.
<pontiki>
but here's where i'm actually headed: if this is a real-world app that is supposed to be used to route calls to real people, it would seem to me to be better to have something that just says "who's in" rather than create a sort of static collection of office hours which might go up in smoke in an instant
<joshu>
This is for 5 remote workers
<pontiki>
i see
<pontiki>
maybe present them with this scenario
<pontiki>
and then perhaps think about a way for them to log-in and -out without them having to do anything in particular
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<pontiki>
we could perhaps talk about what these people do
<joshu>
i'm open to suggestions as I've been through the pros on cons of the typical system and then my system as described above and the users have welcomed my default behaviour of being logged in as this way company incoming calls will be routed to people instead of the worse scenario when no one logs in because they forget. Me personally I wouldn't have this problem
<joshu>
these people are office workers, bookkeeping, accountants
<tjbiddle>
Hey guys - Is there anyway to see all of the methods being called on a ruby executable?
<pontiki>
but they take calls?
<tjbiddle>
Example: I'm calling librarian-puppet - I'm trying to figure out where a certain piece of logic lies so that I can patch it.
<pontiki>
how much of their pay depends on them taking calls?