<substrate>
I'm trying to do the part just under the line "As always, your objective is to make all the tests pass."
<shevy>
ok but
<shevy>
I see them use * only in a method definition or?
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<shevy>
def add(*numbers)
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<substrate>
ok so this was me not understanding the splat operator
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<brisbin>
substrate: in x = *args.join x is an Array because of _ = *_ semantics. however, *args.join.class itself is (*args).join.class which is obviously string.
<shevy>
splat is strange
<shevy>
a = "2" # => "2"; b = *a # => ["2"]
<shevy>
didn't we used to have .to_a ?
<shevy>
but b = a.to_a fails
<shevy>
ah yes...
<shevy>
"abc".each_char.to_a # => ["a", "b", "c"]
<shevy>
I liked the old way more though :(
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<substrate>
"x is an Array because of _ = *_ semantics." so syntactic sugar got the best of me this time?
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<substrate>
I figured *args.join gave me a String
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<substrate>
(since *args.join.class told me it was)
<brisbin>
substrate: i still think it's precedence
<brisbin>
*(names.join) vs (*names).join
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<brisbin>
= is what changes the precedence though
<substrate>
(*names).join gives me a syntax error
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<brisbin>
so maybe it's syntax around = that makes (*names) behavior possible, even though it can't be typed directly
<substrate>
I see
<brisbin>
i dunno
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<brisbin>
ambiguity. makes shit hard
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<substrate>
well either way, shevy's right that the splat shouldn't have shown up /inside/ the method. I changed each of my *names to names and it works now
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<brisbin>
yes, he's right. i assumed you were just showing a quirk, not that that was actual production code :)
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<brisbin>
they're right* have to stop assuming
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<shevy>
hehe yeah
<shevy>
I tried (*names).join as well and got a syntax error
<shevy>
then I also noticed that I really can't think of the use of * being very common inside of a method hmm
<brisbin>
neat, but i don't think it'd get through CR
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<apeiros>
CR?
<brisbin>
code review
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<apeiros>
o0
<brisbin>
there's got to be a clearer way to do whatever it is that results in doing that
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<apeiros>
that's pretty clear IMO.
<apeiros>
anyway, it was a demonstration of splat on RHS of =
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<brisbin>
yeah, i'm being difficult. sorry
<brisbin>
i'll be sure to ping you if i ever use * on the rhs IRL though
<apeiros>
I consider method calls assignments on the methods arguments. it works precisely that way (except for defaults and the new named arguments in 2.0)
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<apeiros>
i.e., if you have `def foo(a,b,*c) …` and `foo(x, *y)` it's the same as `a,b,*c = x,*y`
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<brisbin>
i just can't think of a scenario where i'd want a splat in the method definition but then, when i'm calling that method, i'm splattin things differently
<brisbin>
if that were the case, i'd want to change the method signature to reflect the common callers
<brisbin>
ya know?
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<brisbin>
your explanation of it as assignment is insightful though, don't get me wrong
<apeiros>
if you could always adjust that way, you'd better not use splat at all and pass arrays instead. ya know?
<apeiros>
less work for ruby
<brisbin>
hmm
<brisbin>
i'm going to look for scenarios where i can pass a, *b to a method that takes a, b, *c
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<apeiros>
I don't see a point to go out and look for those. but sure, it's your time :-)
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<apeiros>
I give you one: sprintf
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<brisbin>
i just mean, i'd never think to do it
<apeiros>
at least that's one where I often use that pattern
<brisbin>
so being aware of it as a valid thing might shorten up something somewhere someday
<brisbin>
and how would i know the pattern without looking for it? ;)
<apeiros>
on, and method_missing too
<apeiros>
since I almost always define it as method_missing(name, *args)
<brisbin>
oh, i've stopped doing that, if I know i'm just going to send(name, *args) eventually
<brisbin>
i've turned it to method_missing(*args) ... send(*args) most places
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<apeiros>
that sounds like abuse of method_missing :-p
<apeiros>
almost all scenarios I'm aware of need checking of name. otherwise you wrote yourself a delegator.
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<brisbin>
i guess that's true. it's been quite some time since i haven't gone to SimpleDelegator for this kind of stuff
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<brisbin>
i actually don't think we've overriden method_missing anywhere in my current project, quite the accomplishment!
<brisbin>
btw i started using cram for shell script testing. highly recommend
<fourq>
brisbin: I just used your irssi config, I know because i had to replace your nick all over my config ;)
<brisbin>
fourq: that's funny, i recently switched to weechat
<brisbin>
glad you found my config though, hope it suits you
<fourq>
yeah it does, thanks
<fourq>
why the switch though?
<zendeavor>
brisbin: welp, time to switch to erc then
<brisbin>
fourq: nothing bad about irssi, i just tried weechat on a whim and there are a couple really nice features you can't get in irssi
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<brisbin>
the buffer list, the nick list, the completion is better, changing buffers by name, smart filters, there's a lot actually
<brisbin>
besides the fact irssi hasn't been developed in what, years?
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<fourq>
yeah, I mostly run off scripts buddys make, or that I kow have been around forever.
<fourq>
Maybe I'll check out weechat too
<zendeavor>
well, irssi is active dev
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<brisbin>
really?
<zendeavor>
but it's glacial pace
<brisbin>
ha
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<zendeavor>
yeah, and i think they're not doing any periodic releases?
<zendeavor>
the svn isn't hard to find
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<brisbin>
you use irssi zendeavor ?
<zendeavor>
no
<brisbin>
why so defensive bro
<zendeavor>
only fair.
<zendeavor>
there's still the buffer list, nick list, completion mechanisms, buffer management, smart filters, iset, /script
<fourq>
brisbin: have a weechat config available on gh?
<zendeavor>
<-
<brisbin>
fourq: i've been trying to figure out how to do that, weechat breaks config into like 27 files, and some have passwords in it, so... no. not yet
<fourq>
eek
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<zendeavor>
don't post irc.conf
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<brisbin>
it's so easy to *not* need passwords to be in plaintext config files, i'm starting to really dislike programs that require one to do so
<zendeavor>
i'm pretty sure that's the only one of my module confs that have a password in it
<brisbin>
offlineimap and msmtp get it right, imo
<DanielRb>
i'm split between ruby, python and C++
<zendeavor>
and i heard weechat can take hashed passwords now
<zendeavor>
DanielRb: use them all except c++
<DanielRb>
but C++ is powerful
<zendeavor>
okay then use it.
<DanielRb>
(powerful in the right hands i should say)
<zendeavor>
any sufficiently complex project will use a mixture of lanugages anyway
<DanielRb>
true
<zendeavor>
and (c++ is fragile in any hands)
<brisbin>
DanielRb: use haskell
<brisbin>
and change your name to DanielHs
<DanielRb>
haskell isn't object orientated
<DanielRb>
or is it?
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<zendeavor>
python barely is anyway
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<brisbin>
it's not
<zendeavor>
only by convention
<brisbin>
if that's a requirment ruby is most object oriented
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<zendeavor>
c++ just happens to HAVE objects, too
<zendeavor>
because c++ includes a kitchen sink
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<brisbin>
if OOP is your jam, ruby is where it's at
<brisbin>
it's basically smalltalk which is the OOP of all OOPs
<DanielRb>
at the moment i'm not working on any project. i just want to advance my knowledge and i keep getting distracted between working on something written in Ruby, Python and C++
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<fourq>
I think it's only windows, except when used mono or something
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<fourq>
and the ide will break the bank
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<DanielRb>
i already have visual studio as part of dreamspark
<DanielRb>
but i don't like being locked into Windows.
<DanielRb>
i actually use OS X too, so C# is out of the question unless i use something like mono
<fourq>
yeah I wasn't really reccomending it, just thought it'd be "that guy"
<DanielRb>
:P
<fourq>
though I enjoy coding in it
<DanielRb>
what do you think of Go language
<zendeavor>
don't drink the .net koolaid
<fourq>
and VS witht he dark theme is actually really nice
<DanielRb>
fourq: it is
<zendeavor>
DanielRb: go talk to #go-nuts
<DanielRb>
LOL
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<DanielRb>
better not join the Go-Nuts Cult
<zendeavor>
at least they didn't call it #go-nads okay
<DanielRb>
ha
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<DanielRb>
what IDE for Ruby do you all use?
<DanielRb>
vim is nice, but i just can't get used to it
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<zendeavor>
vim, emacs.
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<zendeavor>
DanielRb: /msg vimgor movement
<DanielRb>
what?
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<fourq>
i like vim and sublime text
<fourq>
but I use vim more so for ruby, and sublime text mostly for Apex
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<brisbin>
i could never not use vim for anything
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<fourq>
brisbin: what do you think of spf13? junk?
<fourq>
most vim lovers hate it
<fourq>
that i know
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<fourq>
I personally think it's a-ok
<brisbin>
never heard of either
<fourq>
oh? check it out, it's for vim
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<fourq>
but if you're a config guy, which I know you are, you might hate it
<substrate>
brisbin and apeiros I would use * on RHS of = if it's inside [] like [*1..100]
<fourq>
but it does create a very neat config file by default...or rather structured
<DanielRb>
what?
<brisbin>
fourq: oh that's the ready-made vim config?
<fourq>
DanielRb: earlier convo
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<fourq>
brisbin: yeah
<brisbin>
yeay, no thanks :)
<fourq>
figured
<brisbin>
my config is sancrosanct
<fourq>
=)
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<brisbin>
sacrosanct?
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<brisbin>
substrate: that's interesting, is that like (1..100).to_a?
<substrate>
yea it's splats out the range to fill the array. Useful for Project Euler problems
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<DanielRb>
my vim takes a while to laod
<DanielRb>
*load
<DanielRb>
have too many plugins i think
<substrate>
it doesn't have to be a range. You can coerce "Hello" to ["Hello"] with *"Hello"
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<substrate>
oh wait nvm. just tried it. that blog lied to me
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<zendeavor>
cram looks interesting
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<zendeavor>
DanielRb: cut down to bare minimum
<DanielRb>
i just launched "vim Test.rb" now.. it's not too bad
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<DanielRb>
i don't have many plugins though
<zendeavor>
do you post your .vim* on gh or anything
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<shevy>
no
<shevy>
on facebook
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<zendeavor>
bail
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<brisbin>
i went through a big config purge recently
<DanielRb>
hmm, when i paste something from clipboard into a file using vim,, it comments out everything
<brisbin>
feels god
<brisbin>
good*
<DanielRb>
must be some plugin or config
<brisbin>
DanielRb: set paste
<DanielRb>
what?
<zendeavor>
no don't set paste
<fourq>
:set paste
<brisbin>
before pasting, set paste
<zendeavor>
use your registers.
<brisbin>
well
<brisbin>
sure
<brisbin>
"+p
<DanielRb>
oh nice, thanks
<zendeavor>
:set paste is bad for you
<zendeavor>
forget it exists
<DanielRb>
how so?
<brisbin>
you're making a lotta sense zendeavor
<brisbin>
DanielRb: remember to set nopaste after you're done pasting
<brisbin>
i suspect that's the main motivation for forgetting this exists
<zendeavor>
DanielRb: because you should really really really learn how to use your registers
<DanielRb>
what registers?
<zendeavor>
but yeah, you better :set nopaste immediately after finishing a paste, else you're stuck in vi mode
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<fourq>
the ones you're about to learn about
<brisbin>
DanielRb: type :display
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<brisbin>
zomg registers!
<zendeavor>
:help E354
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<DanielRb>
too much to remember right now
<zendeavor>
you get used to it
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<zendeavor>
:help 'pt'
<jrobeson>
so funny to see Motif still mentioned in the docs..
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<DanielRb>
is it bad that i'm using vim from terminal?
<brisbin>
hmm what's the difference b/w ^T and ^O?
<brisbin>
DanielRb: why would that be bad?
<zendeavor>
brisbin: huh?
<zendeavor>
DanielRb: that is the only proper way to vim.
<fourq>
if it's a powershell terminal maybe =)
<DanielRb>
macvim vs just terminal
<brisbin>
zendeavor: i did you help command, it gave me a simple help and said to "Go back" was CTRL-T or CTRL-O
<zendeavor>
that's still macvim
<brisbin>
i've only ever used CTRL-O
<zendeavor>
"go back" where
<shevy>
to start
<brisbin>
zendeavor: ^O goes backward in the jump list
<brisbin>
good for when tag-navigating via ^[
<zendeavor>
i know what ^o does
<zendeavor>
i just don't know where you are finding "go back"
<zendeavor>
'taglist' and 'jumplist' are different things brisbin
<brisbin>
sorry it was my mistake. vim +help +/Jump\ back # to see what i was talking about
<jrobeson>
how did you guys learn how to really really use vim. i can do the basics pretty well.. avoiding the cursor keys, staying out of insert mode and whatnot
<zendeavor>
jrobeson: :help
<jrobeson>
but now i wanna go to the next level.
<brisbin>
zendeavor: i didn't quote my space so help E354 took me somewhere else...
<zendeavor>
oh lol
<fourq>
vim tutor
<jrobeson>
just reading isn't as usefu until one sees how it goes
<jrobeson>
like how things get really useful in practice
<zendeavor>
jrobeson: :help
<jrobeson>
oh.. i had forgotten about vimcasts also..
<jrobeson>
plus certain things have weight that others don't
<fourq>
zendeavor: no, linux usually, but I have a mac right now for Salesforce developement with Sublime Text's MavenMate plugin that is only avail on mac
<fourq>
crunchbang at the office w/vmware win7
<zendeavor>
well, if you're an ST guy, subvim might be worth poking at
<DanielRb>
subvim is nice
<jrobeson>
DanielRb, do you have a specific thing against lua ?
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<brisbin>
that makes for a good discussion, what is the best "extension" language and why?
<jrobeson>
seems fit for purpose for me..
<zendeavor>
jrobeson: developed in a darkroom
<jrobeson>
ah.. that is a good one for sure
<jrobeson>
a good reason imean
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<DanielRb>
jrobeseon: i can't really say anything about Lua, i've never bothered to use it/learn it.. I don't like the syntax though
<zendeavor>
i'll never use lua as long as it's a trade secret.
<jrobeson>
i had forgotten about that.. i haven't actually looked into development of the lua language since i first read about it :)
<jrobeson>
zendeavor, that's a good reason for sure
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<jrobeson>
ah i don't mind the syntax..
<jrobeson>
it's like a better javascript..
<fourq>
oh...subvim
<fourq>
hmm
<zendeavor>
brisbin: what IS a good extension language
<DanielRb>
mruby
<zendeavor>
fourq: just don't recommend janus or spf13 ever again plz
<fourq>
this is interesting, you guys use it?
<brisbin>
zendeavor: stdin/stdout :)
<fourq>
zendeavor: I'm laxy with config, and i like the presets
<jrobeson>
something in which is easy to do FFI and is slim
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<jrobeson>
and decently designed :)
<zendeavor>
fourq: no, but it serves a narrower purpose than junk like spf13 which are kitchen-sink-configurations
<jrobeson>
lua is those.. except the array starting at 1 bit..
<brisbin>
zendeavor: again I point to offlineimap/msmtp give be an executable which will spit out what i need. done.
<jrobeson>
i want a kitchen sink configuraiton though..
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<zendeavor>
brisbin: i don't use those, not sure what you mean
<zendeavor>
i do have a unit for offlineimap
<fourq>
zendeavor: I never said it was great, i just know that you get a taste of a lot of plugins riht off the bat that you might not otherwise know of if you're new to vim
<zendeavor>
brisbin: still arch rite
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<jrobeson>
i want to use a curated editor configuration.. i have enough other stuff in the world to learn about..
<fourq>
or not new to vim, if you just do enjoy configing the hell out of it
<jrobeson>
i'd prefer if somebody else decided a good way to do things
<fourq>
s/do/don't
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<fourq>
jrobeson: a lot of the time i agree with that
<zendeavor>
i do too
<zendeavor>
then i realize i disagree with a mapping
<jrobeson>
as long as it's still possible to adjust as needed
<zendeavor>
then i realize how dumb a function is
<DanielRb>
hmm, i can set the color theme with :color file right?
<DanielRb>
gettng errors
<jrobeson>
and it seems to be such
<zendeavor>
then i realize that i never use XY plugin
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<zendeavor>
and then i spend more time UNCONFIGURING vim than i do configging it
<fourq>
DanielRb: :color <theme name>
<jrobeson>
zendeavor, well i have plenty of packages on my os i don't use.. and i don't care about that :)
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<zendeavor>
DanielRb: it has to be in ~/.vim/colors
<fourq>
zendeavor: for sure, but once you realize that you like things like gthe gist plugin and emmet and a theme you can uninstall and call it a day
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<brisbin>
zendeavor: yeah still arch. offlineimap and msmmtp both allow a passwordeval setting which points to an executable meant to output the password
<jrobeson>
tired of dealing with all that..
<brisbin>
makes it really easy to have configs without passwords in it, regardless of how you store your shit
<zendeavor>
that's nice
<jrobeson>
zendeavor, i'm sure at some point stuff like that will get in the way .. when it does.. i'll figure it out :)
<fourq>
jrobeson: which fedora version you on?
<jrobeson>
19
<zendeavor>
brisbin: i figured systemd206 systemcd --user out completely
<jrobeson>
glad that arch chose systemd.. even if don't like arch
<jrobeson>
i wish gentoo would do the same
<fourq>
i moved away from fedora at 17 I think
<jrobeson>
it's just too bad openrc is good enough in a way..
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<fourq>
the hotdog one
<brisbin>
zendeavor: i'll never do the systemd user stuff, there's no way to have persisten screen!
<brisbin>
by design
<jrobeson>
fourq, i just got tired of dealing with nonsense in rolling releaese distros for a time
<zendeavor>
brisbin: uhm, it's default in 205+
<jrobeson>
finally distros got enough enough that i stopped caring
<brisbin>
zendeavor: splain
<jrobeson>
i mostly use fedora becuase i know that in the end.. it's supported by redhat
<jrobeson>
and they have people who actually pay them money :)
<zendeavor>
starting at 205, systemd --user is launched for logins
<fourq>
ever use Crunchbang?
<jrobeson>
nah..
<DanielRb>
crunchbang is one of the best OS's IMO
<jrobeson>
i got out of that phase before that
<DanielRb>
but it's mostly debian + openbox
<jrobeson>
i used gentoo for 6 years or so
<zendeavor>
brisbin: i don't know what you mean by persistent screen though
<jrobeson>
i like gnome 3 personally
<jrobeson>
and fedora provides a good experience for that
<jrobeson>
i've considered debian a few different times
<jrobeson>
but .. i prefer something more curated also there
<jrobeson>
i'd likely be using ubuntu if i didn't think they were doing such terrible things
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<fourq>
I really enjoy crunchbang. I tried ubuntu for a while, and fedora for a couple years
<DanielRb>
i don't really like gnome3
<jrobeson>
they've made so many terrible decisions
<DanielRb>
crunchbang is awesome (y)
<fourq>
but settled in with openbox and crunch
<zendeavor>
arch 4 lyf
<jrobeson>
bzr and mir.. :(
<jrobeson>
ah i live gnome3.. it's going in the right direction
<jrobeson>
love*
<brisbin>
zendeavor: so systemd is all about containing shit in C groups. so if you use systemd user to start X, then you start screen from within X, it's *impossible* for that screen session to escape its C group and persist across X restarts (or crashes). considering thats my main use case for screen, it's kind of a deal breaker
<fourq>
though fluxbox on fedora wasn't bad
<DanielRb>
the simplicity of openbox is what draws me to crunchbang
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<jrobeson>
ah.. tha'ts too simple.. i still want a nice experience :)
<jrobeson>
i want more than a wm..
<jrobeson>
i want a full DE
<fourq>
"nice"
<shevy>
UNITY
<zendeavor>
brisbin: heftig says a basic screen.service worked fine for him
<brisbin>
zendeavor: i'll have to look into this
<jrobeson>
shevy, if canonical weren't so terrible.. i'd likely end up OK with unity
<jrobeson>
even if the first release wasn't too good
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<jrobeson>
i'm sure they'd iron it out..
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<jrobeson>
i just don't trust the company
<zendeavor>
brisbin: on the other hand, tmux is a little broken
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<brisbin>
zendeavor: the only way that works is to start all screen sessions you'd ever need on boot?
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<popl>
>a little
<popl>
:)
<brisbin>
i have no need for tmux in a tiling wm
<DanielRb>
unity should have really been optional
<zendeavor>
brisbin: just a screen server/socket or whatever
<brisbin>
hmm
<brisbin>
fair enough, i'll have to look into it
<zendeavor>
and uhm, why do you use screen if you have no need for tmux in a tiling wm
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<zendeavor>
they serve the same purpose
<zendeavor>
tmux and screen are like 95% equivalent
<fourq>
maybe it's tmux to handle
<fourq>
..sigh
<fourq>
here all night folks
<brisbin>
zendeavor: i used screen first
<zendeavor>
i just don't comprehend the comment
<zendeavor>
"in a tiling wm"
<brisbin>
the only thing tmux has over screen is vertical splits
<zendeavor>
"i have no need for tmux because i already use screen" i would understand, lol
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<brisbin>
and in a tiling wm i hav e no ned
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<brisbin>
i have no need*
<jrobeson>
DandyPandy, why? it goes against htem creating the curated experience they want to have
<zendeavor>
it actually lacks one thing that screen wins pretty big on
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<jrobeson>
i have neough decision fatique in my life trying to decide which ruby libs to use..
<jrobeson>
let alone my desktop environment..
<zendeavor>
brisbin: panning is a huge upside for screen
<shevy>
no jrobeson
<brisbin>
panning?
<shevy>
jrobeson always write your own libs
<jrobeson>
do what..
<jrobeson>
that makes no sense..
<shevy>
everything
<jrobeson>
then i'd never get any actual work done ever..
<zendeavor>
brisbin: so, in tmux, the size of your window is limited to the window size of the smallest attached client
<zendeavor>
brisbin: if they implement panning, then the bigger clients can expand the panes to fit the full window
<zendeavor>
brisbin: i believe screen -x offers this? but i dno't know screen that well
<brisbin>
interesting, i've never had a need for this one way or another
<zendeavor>
i'm attached in my X session and on tty2
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<zendeavor>
i use a tiny font on ttyN so my tmux session is currently only taking up 3/4 of the screen, in a rectangle
<fourq>
then, once you figure out one OS, and its setup, fireup a new box and get synergy
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<zendeavor>
brisbin: fwiw, i fired up this tmux session from within X, then attached to it from tty2 with no hiccups
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<fourq>
clear
<fourq>
err
<brisbin>
ls
<brisbin>
exit
<fourq>
=)
<jrobeson>
part
<shevy>
rescue
<zendeavor>
so i'm a little uncertain what you mean by the cgroups problem, as it doesn't appear to exist for me
<DanielRb>
./nick Daniel.Rb
<brisbin>
zendeavor: open a terminal in X, start screen/tmux in there, kill X
<DanielRb>
lolol
<brisbin>
restart X and reattach your screen or tmux
<zendeavor>
in that case, a properly written unit is in order.
<zendeavor>
i think i get it now
<jrobeson>
i just read ablog about this
<shevy>
huh
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<zendeavor>
brisbin: i'm *pretty sure* that using a .service solves this problem. just make sure you don't put your socket/server in $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR
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<shevy>
it would be cool to be able to boot into linux, commandline, then just start openoffice... without having to use xorgserver
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<zendeavor>
that's doable
<brisbin>
zendeavor: you might be right. i'm on the fence if systemd --user is worth the effort though
<zendeavor>
brisbin: i already solved the effort.
<brisbin>
people have been using that argument a lot lately, like bloat that someone else manages isn't still bloat
<fourq>
with subvim can is there anything like the package installer?
<zendeavor>
brisbin: i've gone so far as to displace shell exports and /etc/profile.d/ for setting up the env
<zendeavor>
brisbin: you said effort, not "bloat"
<brisbin>
true
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<brisbin>
i meant bloat
<brisbin>
complexity
<zendeavor>
fwiw, i'm debloating and uncomplicating by taking shell out of the equation
<brisbin>
maybe, we'll see ;)
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<zendeavor>
all your environment defaults go in /etc/environment. all your user environment vars go in ~/.pam_environment
<zendeavor>
that's instead of /etc/profile.d, and ~/.bash_profile
<zendeavor>
and then, your login no longer relies on shell scripts, just like your init stopped relying on them ~2 years ago
<fourq>
so screen + irssi and notifications?
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<brisbin>
set them bells!
<zendeavor>
no clue, weechat has notification plugins
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<fourq>
that work over ssh?
<brisbin>
fourq: make your irc client raise a terminal bell, make screen foward said bell, make your wm/de/os notify you of said bell
<zendeavor>
fourq: yes, over ssh
<brisbin>
make your ssh client forward said bell
<brisbin>
???; profit
<fourq>
I need that to happen at the office.
<fourq>
though i GET MORE WORK DONE WITHOUT IT
<fourq>
err
<fourq>
caps
<fourq>
i HAVE A HARD TIME (see) with this mbp
<zendeavor>
brisbin: i admit that it seems more complicated *at first* because you've carefully curated your environment setup with your shell startup scripts. but remember how that breaks as soon as you switch to a display manager?
<brisbin>
one does not simply *switch to a display manager*
<zendeavor>
and then you have to go figure out which file your DM uses, and make it source you .bash_profile
<brisbin>
seriously though, i don't think i'll ever change that aspect of my setup
<zendeavor>
and then if you switch, pray the new DM uses the same files
<brisbin>
i just start a tty, my shell startup files are my env startup files
<brisbin>
will always be
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<zendeavor>
i don't blame you, but i'm just saying my opinion is that i've found out how to reduce the complexity by removing the dependence on shell scripts
<brisbin>
fair enough
<zendeavor>
it doesn't affect you or i because we don't use display managers
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<zendeavor>
but, #archlinux may no longer have to field questions like "how come my environment vars are missing when i login to gdm!!!!????"
<zendeavor>
the problem will disappear ;D
<brisbin>
that would be nice indeed
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<zendeavor>
but i suck at C and pam_env.c needs to honor a drop-in dir like /etc/pam.d to be fully equivalent to /etc/profile.d/
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<zendeavor>
brisbin: hack it for me =[
<brisbin>
zendeavor: i'll work on that :)
<brisbin>
i'm on C dev, that's for sure
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<zendeavor>
i learned enough C to grasp the lower level concepts, like why memory management is important and how to do it, and how to determine correct data structures appropriate for the task at hand
<zendeavor>
i can't actually *write* good C though
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<thumbee>
me new to web development. any know the (plain english) relationship of DOM to say rest of the stuff. ie. when would i use it. where do i write this code? it is stuff that goes in an html file?
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<jrobeson>
thumbee, html itself is based on the dom..
<jrobeson>
you're going to have to do a lot of reading to really understand it all
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<thumbee>
icic. ya. just trying to understand the high level. like how things fit together
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<thumbee>
first someones like writing the HTML. then they have javascript. the php. css.. then DOM :s im sure theres some good organizational reason to write in so many different langauges in diff files but err. confusing
<thumbee>
most documents i find talk about one particular thing.. as oppose to the big picture integration of stuff
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<zendeavor>
people write DOM?
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<thumbee>
i have no idea ! lol.
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<mantas322>
Hi guys
<mantas322>
I have a stupid question
<mantas322>
I have a Hash
<DanielRb>
what… haskell faster than c++ in "fasta" benchmark??
<jrobeson>
thumbee, the DOM is kinda like the design of html
<mantas322>
which has strings for keys and ints for values
<jrobeson>
thumbee, perhaps it's best if you try to associate things with what you might already be familiar with..
<mantas322>
puts fruithash["apple"]
<mantas322>
should give me 3 right?
<jrobeson>
what did you do other than web dev..
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<Buuyo>
the dom is the browser's running representation of the page. the browser creates a dom from the HTML it receives from the server, and the javascript can manipulate the dom to change the way the page is organized in the browser at runtime. :p
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<mantas322>
wtf is ghoing on!
<mantas322>
"no implicit conversion of String into Integer (TypeError)"
<DanielRb>
show your code
<Orxata_>
Haskell is fast
<thumbee>
jrobeson: ive tried writing simple HTML.. some css. 2 seperate files.. one references the other. tried to understand javascript.. it seems like a 3rd file that runs on the browser for real-time feedback processed on the client end.. then now DOM.. /facepalm/
<jrobeson>
there is a lot ot understand thumbee
<jrobeson>
web development is hard ..
<jrobeson>
you just have to keep reading
<thumbee>
Buuyo: thanks. that helped
<Orxata_>
reading and doing it
<thumbee>
DOM sounds like its not even a 'language' or anything you write.. its just something that the browser creates and javascript can reference it.. so really if anyone is "using DOM" they are using it when writing their javascript code. correct?
<jrobeson>
and css..
<jrobeson>
focusing on the css side is likely easier
<jrobeson>
it's definitely not something you write
<Buuyo>
thumbee: the DOM is just a tree-like datastructure containing the elements of the page starting from the root node, which is often the <html> element.
<mantas322>
hmmm
<mantas322>
" no implicit conversion of String into Integer (TypeError)"
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<jrobeson>
thumbee, in that case.. usually page is equivalent to document
<Orxata_>
in fact, understanding javascript it helps a lot to understand DOM
<jrobeson>
*usually*
<thumbee>
jrobeson: "it's definitely not something you write" <-- GOOD TO KNOW.. lol!!
<Buuyo>
the css also references the dom, not the html :)
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<Buuyo>
but without javascript monkeying around, the dom is pretty much going to be identifical to the way the html is laid out
<jrobeson>
Orxata_, obviously.. but it's easier to start with css than another actual programming language
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<jrobeson>
thumbee, web developer definitely involves knowing at least 3 different "languages" (using it generically here)
<jrobeson>
web development*
<thumbee>
Orxata_: i probably asking ridiculous questions cause i dont know javascript :p
<jrobeson>
for folks who use something like ruby.. that adds one more
<thumbee>
jrobeson: what are the 3 langauges you are referring to. HTML, javascript and ?
<Buuyo>
it's definitely worthwhile to learn all technologies involved, even if you only plan to go deep in one area
<jrobeson>
css
<thumbee>
kk
<jrobeson>
not really languages per se..
<jrobeson>
but close enough for you..
<Orxata_>
thumbee, they're not ridiculous questions :d
<dominikh>
yes, languages per se; not programming languages.
<Orxata_>
I like the definition by Buuyo
<jrobeson>
it's a good start for understanding for sure
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<thumbee>
if im writing just HTML + css.. will i not need to understand how the DOM works? its only when i introduce javascipt that the concepts of the DOM become really relevant?
<Orxata_>
Actually I find difficult to define DOM xD
<jrobeson>
thumbee, css uses the dom too
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<Buuyo>
thumbee: you'll need to understand how css selectors work, which is how you target things on the page to apply visual effects. css selectors traverse the dom, so you need to understand the dom's tree-like nature
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<Buuyo>
thumbee: as for the individual dom node functions you can call on any given node, that's not so important until you start getting into javascript
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<DanielRb>
does ruby have anything like Cython?
<DanielRb>
*CPython
<jrobeson>
uhmm.. i thought cpython was just python..
<sam113101>
an interpreter?
<sam113101>
yeah we got one
<jrobeson>
DanielRb, cpython is just the regular python
<sam113101>
ruby isn't just a conceptual language anymore, you know
<DanielRb>
no i meant Cython
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<Buuyo>
thumbee: as a side note though, if you're doing just html + css you're not doing any really fun things in the browser. :) The fun stuff begins where javascripts are involved.
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<Orxata_>
folks php seems to be very insecure
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<existensil>
hahaha. yep. just search github for eval/exec + $_GET
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<existensil>
like anything, it can be used securely, but PHP is one of the worst at getting developers to actually do that
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<Orxata_>
exactly
<DanielRb>
eval($_GET['v']);
<DanielRb>
eh?
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<Orxata_>
useful but safeless
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<existensil>
it was my first love, the first language I understood deeply, and I haven't missed it at all in the years since I left it
<DanielRb>
existensil: php?
<existensil>
yes
<DanielRb>
php can be a nightmare
<existensil>
I used it for personal projects and was able to keep them pretty clean and OOP
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<Orxata_>
oh
<Orxata_>
true romance
<Orxata_>
indeed
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<Orxata_>
%00 :3
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<existensil>
but it was disappointing to see the quality of public code. it also has tons of inherent limitations.
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<existensil>
no threading, extremely poor (at the time) package/library management, and OO features that feel like they were bolted on (because they were)
<Orxata_>
lol
<DanielRb>
php doesn't have any threading right?
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<existensil>
even if it did, one of the other problems is extremely slow and poor adoption of new versions
<DanielRb>
i don't see why you'd need threading in a web language anyway
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<DanielRb>
we all know you shouldn't use PHP for non-web projects… riiiggght?
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<existensil>
I think threading can make sense for serving up a web app. A single application that can share resources and asynchronously respond to requests is compelling.
<existensil>
but, yeah, the big problem was I ended up trying to use PHP for non-web-apps
<DanielRb>
i once tried to make a game server in PHP
<existensil>
even successfully made an ungodly slow tool for generating extremely detailed photo mosaics
<DanielRb>
that was like 4-5 years ago i believe lol
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<existensil>
its a tool like any other. clearly, passing user input to it seems close to universally evil
<popl>
s/evil/stupid/
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<zendeavor>
s/stupid/easy to misuse/
<funnyboy240>
You're kidding. it is?
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<popl>
zendeavor: "its a tool like any other. clearly, passing user input to it seems close to universally easy to misuse"?
<popl>
;P
<funnyboy240>
Who is zendeavor it? Do not ask me any more questions please. Is it that obvious?
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<zendeavor>
i'm not following the context
<funnyboy240>
I am sorryto hear that you are not following the context.
<zendeavor>
that's boring
<funnyboy240>
Do you think I am boring?
<popl>
funnyboy240: are you a bot?
<zendeavor>
an awful one
<funnyboy240>
I think there might be a few exception.
<sevenseacat>
looks like a bot
<funnyboy240>
Interesting comparison.
<popl>
yeah
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<funnyboy240>
I hear you.
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<zendeavor>
x like y
<funnyboy240>
Do you have to take a big shit right now?
<zendeavor>
like
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<funnyboy240>
For example, Gale said I became mean to him he is just having revenge an eye for an eye.
<sevenseacat>
o.O
<existensil>
who the hell is Gale?
<funnyboy240>
Oh.
<popl>
apeiros: you around?
<lotherk>
funnyboy240: what is 42?
<funnyboy240>
I'm wondering what I should do today.
<lotherk>
try OOM.
<funnyboy240>
OK I will try it.
<lotherk>
:>
<funnyboy240>
Hey, 01 08 Welcome to trivialand kick back relax and play some trivia. Are we still talking about swimming pool?
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<lotherk>
funnyboy240: who's your creator?
<popl>
banisterfiend: around?
<funnyboy240>
You and your mama is !
<lotherk>
naw.
<funnyboy240>
Are you serious?
<lotherk>
dafuq?
<existensil>
The responses are almost too weird for a bot. Just thinking troll now.
<funnyboy240>
How do you usually introduce yourself?
<popl>
whatever the fuck it is, it's annoying
<existensil>
yep
<funnyboy240>
You are not the only one. I'm not sure if I like it. I like computers.
<lotherk>
ack
<funnyboy240>
Nack.
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<existensil>
anyone else use active_model_serializer ? Working with it now and really enjoying it. Best solution for building JSON responses for a rails app API I've used.
<funnyboy240>
Lets talk about Mindy's PINGAS! "it" being anyone else use active model serializer? What is your real name?
<existensil>
oh, wow
<funnyboy240>
"What is your real name?"? oh, wow? I'm glad your impressed, 01 08 Welcome to trivialand kick back relax and play some trivia.
<zendeavor>
bot help
<existensil>
nvm. that response was too fast to not be a bot
<funnyboy240>
I don't have a help parameter.
<zendeavor>
bot foo
<funnyboy240>
I don't have a foo parameter.
<existensil>
bot quit
<zendeavor>
bot like
<funnyboy240>
I don't have a quit parameter.
<existensil>
bot sudo quit
<funnyboy240>
I don't have a sudo quit parameter.
<lotherk>
bot exec rm -rf *
<funnyboy240>
I don't have a exec rm rf * parameter.
<lotherk>
bot list
<lotherk>
bot ?
<funnyboy240>
I don't have a list parameter.
<lotherk>
mhm.
<funnyboy240>
Ask me another question.
<lotherk>
may someone kick it?
<funnyboy240>
Can what?
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<zendeavor>
the other channels it's joined require registration
<funnyboy240>
We can't all be perfect.
<existensil>
haha
<funnyboy240>
I am so glad you find this amusing, 01 08 Welcome to trivialand kick back relax and play some trivia.
<zendeavor>
bot trivia
<funnyboy240>
I don't have a trivia parameter.
<zendeavor>
bot trivialand
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<funnyboy240>
I don't have a trivialand parameter.
<sevenseacat>
bot quit
<funnyboy240>
I don't have a quit parameter.
<zendeavor>
tried that one already
<popl>
not likely to work
<sevenseacat>
darn
<funnyboy240>
Perhaps. I'm wondering what I should do today.
<popl>
just ignore it
<funnyboy240>
"it" being tried that one?
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<lotherk>
good idea.
<funnyboy240>
I thought so too.
<zendeavor>
well that's cute
<funnyboy240>
Interesting. Your replies are cute too.
<existensil>
that's the first time I've ever used /ignore in irssi
<funnyboy240>
Yes it is one of the first time you have ever used ignore in irssi.
<popl>
I don't like to but I have to do it in #ruby because the ops are not generally around.
<funnyboy240>
What do you do for fun?
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<polysics>
unfortunately Rails seems to attract PHP refugees for the most part
<sevenseacat>
not that theres anything wrong with that, i was one of them a few years ago
<huf>
doesnt everything?
<polysics>
I did 10 years of pro PHP work before switching toRuby 3 years ago
<sevenseacat>
s/10/7/ and you've described me
<polysics>
the issue is that the average PHP dev level is abysmal
<polysics>
it's the short bus of IT
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<sevenseacat>
lol
<polysics>
and you get people like the above "HOW DO I H4X0R iN RUBY" coming over
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<polysics>
I also can't help it but despise on a personal level people that can't put a problem they have in writing
<huf>
so all your clients?
<polysics>
if you can't describe it you can't solve it, or have someone else do it
<polysics>
no, at the developer level
<huf>
ah. i hate our clients too for not being able to construct sentences :)
<freakcult>
how to test rack apps?
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<sevenseacat>
i get frustrated when clients cant express what they actually want
<polysics>
this is a concept that I once heard stated by Stroustrup at a conference, and it is more true than most other CS/CE catchphrases
<polysics>
I luckily tend to not deal with customers
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<polysics>
someone else does that for me
<freakcult>
@polysics ever heard of cucumber
<polysics>
freakcult: of course I have. I do not like it though.
<sevenseacat>
not many do
<polysics>
the idea is good, but you will NEVER get the process owner to write those scenarios anyway
<freakcult>
he will if you r a blonde :)
<polysics>
and if I have to write them myself, I just use RSpec
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<sevenseacat>
freakcult: no, he probably still wont.
<polysics>
I have recently started using Capybara/Webkit integration testing
<polysics>
I was a skpetic but it does catch A LOT of bugs
<freakcult>
hmmm, i want to figure out a good way to test my rack apps
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<freakcult>
i am more looking for a workflow
<polysics>
RSpec + Capybara
<freakcult>
i just started using git :)
<polysics>
the two are not really related
<freakcult>
so where to go from here.....
<polysics>
but the toolchain is usually
<polysics>
git for VCS
<freakcult>
yup, but i am becoming mature
<polysics>
capistrano for deployment
<polysics>
RSpec for testing
<freakcult>
capistrano stoped though
<sevenseacat>
rspec is my fave ruby tool
<polysics>
RSPEC, before someone comes up with "But I use CrapTestGem because BLARGH"
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<polysics>
that is one of the few things I get aggressive about, other testing frameworks are so inferior there is no point whatsoever
<freakcult>
ok, cool i will buy rspec with no cucumber, but other than capistrano?
<sevenseacat>
i would not use ruby if i couldnt use rspec
<polysics>
so, generally speaking, git = vcs, capistrano = deployment, thin = run things, rspec = unit testing, capybara = integration testing
<freakcult>
i want to use rspec with rack and sinatra and i find it difficult to start
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<polysics>
first of all, Rack will mostly be transparent to you
<polysics>
I build Ruby/Rails apps for a living and I deal with Rack maybe weekly
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<freakcult>
i hate rails and padrino, i am only using sinatra and rack
<polysics>
what are you wanting to test? can you describe a test you would like to do?
<sevenseacat>
i dont think ive used rack by itself or had to deal with it at all in 3 years of ruby and rails
<freakcult>
my code is config.ru where i mount and unmount rack middlewares and sinatra apps, i want to test them :)
<polysics>
advice: never hate on software (unless it is minitest, then it is ok :P )
<freakcult>
i used rails for 2 weeks just to know tht i will never be a rails dev, i choose the rack way
<polysics>
2 weeks? now that's a short time, it took me 1 year to come to terms with Rails :)
<polysics>
reiterating, there is no "Rack way"
<polysics>
Rack is just "there"
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<sevenseacat>
rack isnt a framework, and rails uses rack, soooo
<polysics>
sevenseacat: it comes up when mocking auth, mostly
<polysics>
that's the most common case for having to actually type "Rack" in code :)
<freakcult>
thats not true
<polysics>
freakcult: can you describe one concrete test, in a sentence?
<freakcult>
rack is like the best thing out there
<sevenseacat>
lol
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<polysics>
why so? and compared to what?
<freakcult>
i want to mount my timeline sinatra app and test that it views my clients from the database
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<sevenseacat>
have you googled using rspec to test a sinatra app? it probably wont involve rack at all.
<polysics>
ok, we are getting there
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<polysics>
a test case is more concrete
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<polysics>
mindset first, code after
<freakcult>
the rack way.. is like no generators or code that i dont understand.. but instead to actually be thoughtful about the request and response objects of your app
<polysics>
TDD is really Thought Driven Development
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<polysics>
freakcult: that is not a way, that is a good thing to learn but a bad way to build production apps
<polysics>
people better than me and you have written Rails, Sinatra, router code, request handling and whatever else
<sevenseacat>
indeed
<freakcult>
not really... for instance in theory you can play with anything as long as it is passing through the doors you open and close in your middleware enviroment
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<polysics>
that is why I said it is a good thing to do to learn
<freakcult>
rack was inspired by python's similar project
<polysics>
but it is not a good thing to use every day because it is a lot of overhead and you end up reinventing the wheel, with bugs that otehrs have already wringed out of the same problem
<freakcult>
its a codebase that you will keep enhancing
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<sevenseacat>
i prefer to use frameworks that abstract all that low level stuff away from me.
<polysics>
still case in point: you want to test a Sinatra request to see if the HTML contains what you think it is?
<polysics>
if there was a DWIM framework I would use it
<freakcult>
yeah
<sevenseacat>
i prefer to focus on functionality and delivering value
<freakcult>
whats DWIM?
<polysics>
Do What I Mean
<polysics>
something where I never write code, just explain hwat I want
<freakcult>
hmm, @sevenseacat, i am punk dev
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<freakcult>
do i look like a dev with a plan :D
<polysics>
there is no such thing
<freakcult>
so whats the project i should be looking for ?
<polysics>
because you have a goal, whatever the goal is
<sevenseacat>
cowboy coding, my favorite. i get hired to clean up mess made by people like you.
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<polysics>
I stopped doing that line of work, but it put bread on my table for a long time
<polysics>
sevenseacat: you can have his projects :)
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<polysics>
freakcult: can you describe one test case, please? just one?
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<freakcult>
i want to get some data from the db and list it
<polysics>
test cases are not "OMG tests" they are a structured sentence that will result in a specific action being checked
<polysics>
let me give oyu an example
<polysics>
your test would be
<polysics>
in Gherkin
<polysics>
As a freelance developer
<polysics>
I need to see a list of my clients
<polysics>
When I go to the client list page
<polysics>
I should see a list of my clients
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<polysics>
that is a Cuke scenario, it is useful for describing but I would not run those
<polysics>
so, to test the above
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<polysics>
you would need RSpec, Capybara, a database handling stack (I would advise using factories and not fixtures, like FactoryGirl, plus database_cleaner)
<polysics>
the DB stack will create the test DB for you, stick some clients in it, then cleaner will remove them so each test is atomic
<polysics>
you can even not use factories, jsut use a fixture, which is a static list of records
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<polysics>
like, check this out, which happens to be the first Google result for what you want to accomplish
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<polysics>
Boohbah: I can say it has been an ongoing process for me, at some point it just "clicks"
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<polysics>
for example, not more than two weeks ago I was not doing Capybara/Webkit testing, I tried adding it to a critical project and it saved my ass at elast twice
<polysics>
not just avoided something small, it literally saved me from a disaster
<Boohbah>
i've done Hartl's Rails tutorial but have yet to integrate testing into my own projects
<polysics>
start small, unit tests on model and service layer (if you use one)
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<Boohbah>
and code golf is my guilty pleasure :)
<polysics>
then controller/request testing, that saves your bacons if you mess up routes :)
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<polysics>
integration tests in Webkit are cool but I really only do that on critical projects, although that might change if I get faster at writing them
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<polysics>
a test gains value when writing one is shorter than catching and fixing the bugs it would avoid
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<polysics>
as much as I don't like that statement (derived from DHH's thoughts) it is true :)
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<platzhirsch>
It's devastating how I define relative paths everytime, working great from the project directory and everything breaks if I start to invoke the scripts from other paths
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<platzhirsch>
Is there a good counter approach? Include File.dirname(__FILE__) ?
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* m4dm4n
hello Folks
<platzhirsch>
hello m4dm4n
<m4dm4n>
Excuse me, any body here that know reversing?
<platzhirsch>
That concept can be applied on different levels of abstraction
<platzhirsch>
you can reverse engineer a binary, but you can also reverse engineer through reading source code
<m4dm4n>
I know
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<platzhirsch>
so what are you aiming at?
<m4dm4n>
My mean is binary
<m4dm4n>
Malware
<platzhirsch>
And you want to reverse engineer Ruby bytecode?
companion is now known as Companion
<m4dm4n>
maybe
<m4dm4n>
Are you a rubist?
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<platzhirsch>
I once wanted to reverse engineer a malware file I accidently executed
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<platzhirsch>
I did go with formatting my hard drive
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<m4dm4n>
Shit
<platzhirsch>
m4m4n: I hope so
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<platzhirsch>
there is a channel on freenode where they have a bit more expertise in this topic
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<m4dm4n>
Can I send Pm?
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<platzhirsch>
sure, go ahead
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<Mon_Ouie>
platzhirsch: for using require or just for files that you load in general?
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<Mon_Ouie>
Generally you'd get the right path with something like File.expand_path(file, File.dirname(__FILE__))
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<apeiros>
or File.expand_path("../#{file}", __FILE__)
* apeiros
brb
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<srji>
i'm looking for a easy-to-use, small wiki programmed in ruby
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<zets>
srji: try looking into refinery
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<srji>
zets: do u mean refinery CMS?
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<zets>
srji: there's a wiki built into it iirc. There's probably something simpler out there, actually
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<srji>
i will SoyWiki give a try
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<platzhirsch>
Mon_Ouie: okay, thank.s I implemented it as apeiros has suggested it
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<xeon>
is the ruby Open class concept a good idea? Doesn't it code more complex as programmers can't expect methods that are added on a class on-the-fly?
<xeon>
and difficult to reuse a snippet in a different project?
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<apeiros>
it is a good idea. use it and learn to love it.
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<apeiros>
it's a bad idea trying to babysit programmers.
<apeiros>
if somebody wants to shoot his foot, he will. no amount of babysitting will stop him.
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<xeon>
that's right but how do you reuse a snippet if it assumes basic classes are reopened and new methods are added to them?
<edudx>
Well, I don't want start a discuss about which language is better. But I'll write about Pen Test and Forensic Analysis. For this purpose, Which Language have more suport to write scripts (like a port scanner, sniffer..) Python or Ruby ?
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<apeiros>
xeon: what's your issue with it?
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<apeiros>
edudx: metasploit?
<edudx>
apeiros too, because i'll write my own scripts
<apeiros>
edudx: also, if you explicitly *don't* want to discuss A vs. B, then *don't* ask that way.
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<apeiros>
ask instead "what does ruby have to offer wrt X"
<xeon>
apeiros: let's say I want to copy and paste a function definition that contains someVar.even? where someVar is an Integer. The code inside the function assumes that the Integer class is reopened and the even? method is added, Which means I can't directly copy and paste the code to a different project...
<apeiros>
and take your own conclusions from that
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<xeon>
aperios: I forgot to mention I'm new to ruby
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<apeiros>
xeon: in that case it's simply a bad code example
<apeiros>
and that's unrelated to being able to reopen classes
<apeiros>
if you don't show prerequisites, you make a bad example
<apeiros>
take C - if you don't tell which headers to include, you can't copy & paste code either.
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<edudx>
apeiros Thank you, sorry for the way that I ask
<apeiros>
edudx: no worries. just showing you an alternative.
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<xeon>
so new methods should be added just before they are used? - to explicitly show which `even?` we are using?
<edudx>
apeiros ok
<xeon>
I apologize if my question is to naive
<xeon>
*too
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<apeiros>
xeon: if you make an example, you list the prerequisites for that example to work
<apeiros>
how you do that depends on the specifics of a) your example and b) your prerequisites
<apeiros>
xeon: but I think you overestimate how often existing classes are being extended.
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<apeiros>
or lets use the term 'amended', since 'extend' has its own meaning in ruby.
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<xeon>
okay, can you give a few examples where amending has been very valuable
<xeon>
....
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<apeiros>
define 'very valuable'
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<apeiros>
I've added things like creating structs from hashes, or converting strings to plain ascii
<postmodern>
also should mention that writing exploits is not very difficult in _any_ language
<apeiros>
or added functionality to gems which was missing
<postmodern>
the majority of complexity in exploits is mimicing protocols or file formats to trigger them
<xeon>
great! I think I am wrapping my head around it. I had the wrong concerns.
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<xeon>
which book helped to to master ruby?
<apeiros>
xeon: also Integer#even? and #odd? are in core ruby
<xeon>
or project in github?
<apeiros>
none. I used irc.
<xeon>
yeah right
<xeon>
faving this channel
<postmodern>
xeon, start with legant ruby
<apeiros>
eloquent ruby?
<postmodern>
xeon, also test a lot in irb and ask questions here
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<xeon>
great. Is rails discussed on this channel too
<apeiros>
modruby was an apache plugin, similar to modphp. but nowadays you'd use anything rack based. with apache, that'd be passenger.
<Morrolan>
Ah, I see.
<Morrolan>
Domain seems to have expired?
<Xeago>
apeiros: how come you can't change it?
<apeiros>
Xeago: don't have the privileges
<Xeago>
but chanserv is not in this channel
<Xeago>
+t only requires op, doesn't it?
<Morrolan>
You can register a channel with CS without having it sit in the channel.
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<apeiros>
that's topic
<Xeago>
aha
<apeiros>
I can set the topic, but I can't change the entry message
<Xeago>
sorry
<Morrolan>
(Having an instance of CS in a channel is actually the exception)
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<Xeago>
so fflush needs to change that?
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<apeiros>
correct
<apeiros>
or grant me the privileges
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<apeiros>
too bad this is what nickserv says:
<apeiros>
17:17 NickServ: Last seen : Feb 13 19:19:55 2013 (27 weeks, 3 days, 19:58:00 ago)
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<Morrolan>
How is Freenode's account expiry delay?
<Morrolan>
Might just be able to take over if he stays gone for another few weeks. ;)
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<Morrolan>
Eh, "We consider IRC nicks expired after they have not been used for 10 weeks plus (at staffer discretion) one additional week per full year of registration, up to a maximum of five additional weeks.", but also "Nicks which are considered expired are not dropped automatically on a regular basis"
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<lotherk>
is there a way in ruby to open a file as a stream and wait for new input being written to the file?
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<AzizLight>
Is there a way to make a keyword argument required?
<MrZYX>
I think that's coming in ruby 2.1
<shevy>
hmm...
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<AzizLight>
so the answer is "not for now"?
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<platzhirsch>
wow, doing data processing on a 1 GB RAM (512 MB Swap) machine is really sucky
<MrZYX>
AzizLight: you could just raise ArgumentError on your own for now
<shevy>
platzhirsch are you still stuck in the year 1995
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<platzhirsch>
shevy: I rented a VPS
<AzizLight>
MrZYX: yeah I know, I was just wondering if there was a cleaner alternative
<shevy>
hehe
<platzhirsch>
^^
<AzizLight>
MrZYX: anyway, thanks for the help ;)
<shevy>
I am a little bored right now
<shevy>
I have to rewrite one old .rb file ...
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<wildekek>
I'm working on a product pitch and I'd like to have you feedback. "Making Agile Easy". Could you tell me what this can do for you based on the description above? Would be really appreciated.
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<shevy>
the words insinuate that agile is difficult
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<quazimodo>
my_method(foo, butt, zed) and i want to pass it ["foo arg", "butt arg", "zed arg"]
<quazimodo>
any way more simple than my_method arry[0], arry[1], arry[2]
<quazimodo>
?
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<MrZYX>
splat: my_method(*array)
<quazimodo>
o ya?
<MrZYX>
yup
<quazimodo>
why does that work
<MrZYX>
language feature
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<quazimodo>
HERMMMM
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<quazimodo>
useful
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<Mon_Ouie>
It also works with things that respond_to? :to_a
<Mon_Ouie>
e.g. foo(*1..20)
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<Orxata_>
hi pals
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<RubNoob>
anyone know the workflow/API calls to capture an auth key for someone's PayPal account (i.e. so I can make payments to them using chained payments at a later date)?
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<Ericx2x>
Is this just ruby or is it also ruby on rails?
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<MrZYX>
just ruby, rails goes to #rubyonrails
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<Ericx2x>
thanks
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<Orxata_>
nostromo
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<dweeb>
I have a method like this: def notified; update(notified_at: Time.now); end. And I wanna name it with a trailing bang symbol but it's against the ruby guidelines?
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<MrZYX>
core follows the principle of only adding the bang if there's a (less dangerous) non-bang version
<MrZYX>
like .gsub which returns a a modified copy and .gsub! which modifies the receiver
<dweeb>
MrZYX and in my case there is not, but I remember seeing methods with bang a lot without an equivalent non-bang
<MrZYX>
yes, many use it to denote a kind of "danger"
<MrZYX>
I like core's convention. For example there's the quite dangerous .replace which isn't .replace! because two versions of it won't make any sense
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<dweeb>
MrZYX: hmm, okay. Sometimes I feel it makes sense to have a bang method without a non-bang. But I guess its better to follow ruby core convetions
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<llalonde>
Hello, can one ask a question here about Ruby programming… or is this a developer channel?
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<popl>
llalonde: shoot
<popl>
llalonde: there's a pastebin URL in the /topic if you want to show some code.
<popl>
(we prefer the one in the topic)
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<Orxata_>
I am sick and tired of facebook, twitter, instagram and all that crap
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<shevy>
\o/
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<llalonde>
Yeah I closed my Facebook account… but I think I'll have to get back on… my kids are using it ;-) Just to they don't do something stupid they'll regret later ;-)
<banisterfiend>
llalonde why're you suddenly talking about Facebook? :)
<Orxata_>
for example...?
<llalonde>
Responded to Orxata_
<Orxata_>
:)
<banisterfiend>
llalonde what was your question?
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<llalonde>
Well I want to assign a 'self.site' inside a class to a string variable… How does one do that? Sorry for the ignorance… I'm used to using Perl
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<llalonde>
self.site = #{project_url}
<llalonde>
doesn't work...
<Orxata_>
I've no idea, but have you tried to extend the String class?
<popl>
Orxata_: If you don't have anything useful to say…
<llalonde>
tried single/double quotes too
<Orxata_>
yep, better be quiet
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<apeiros>
llalonde: self.site = project_url
<apeiros>
#{} is for within string literals
<apeiros>
e.g. "one plus one is #{1+1}"
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<apeiros>
if you explicitly want to convert the value referenced by project_url to a String, then most classes provide a .to_s method
<apeiros>
--> self.site = project_url.to_s
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<popl>
apeiros++
Companion is now known as companion
<llalonde>
ok thanks… I'll try that out
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<llalonde>
Doesn't work: `<class:Membership>': undefined local variable or method `project_url' for Membership:Class (NameError)
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<apeiros>
llalonde: well, your problem is different then from what you said
<apeiros>
you don't *have* a variable named `project_url`
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<apeiros>
(and the exception actually tells you that)
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<llalonde>
apeiros: I do… but it's outside the class def
<popl>
llalonde: there's a pastebin URL in the /topic if you'd like to share code.
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<llalonde>
popl: Ok, I'll try that...
<apeiros>
llalonde: that's equivalent to "I don't"
<apeiros>
you can't use a *local* variable wherever you want
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<apeiros>
that's why it's called *local* ;-)
<Xeago>
blaargh, adding e-mail notifications for a complex state system is annoying
<apeiros>
llalonde: Membership.site = project_url
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<apeiros>
in a place where project_url actually exists
<Xeago>
why do I have to work sunday night around 11pm
<apeiros>
Xeago: use something like acts_as_state_machine?
<Xeago>
if only I knew before it came this complex, it was this compelx..
<apeiros>
yannickoo: I'd like to ask you in #debian or wherever apt-get has its home
<apeiros>
they create this mess, they should solve it
<yannickoo>
apeiros: why? mkmf is missing.
<apeiros>
yannickoo: because it's missing because of apt
<Xeago>
yannickoo: mkmf is in ruby-dev package
<apeiros>
a sane ruby installation has mkmf
<shevy>
yannickoo the charlock_holmes gem has not the problem, the problem is that debian crippled your ruby, try apt-get install ruby1.8-dev or whatever name they gave, and also tell the debian developers that they are idiots for crippling things
<Xeago>
I discourage installing ruby with apt..
<apeiros>
apt choses to put the burden on the user to know which packages he really needs when he wants "ruby"
<yannickoo>
Xeago: i am running ruby1.9-dev
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<apeiros>
(it also chooses to apply insane patches on rubygems and others)
<shevy>
yannickoo, you already did "apt-get install ruby1.9-dev" and still miss mkmf?
<shevy>
Xeago yeah... and especially gems... I wonder what debian tells it users... "Do not install any gems"
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<llalonde>
bye and thanks for the help!
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<yoshie902a>
Are there tools/gems to log/monitor http requests? I'm using a gem "ruby-refs" that is using net/https and I am trying to figure out what it's posting
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<yoshie902a>
or getting, etc
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<yoshie902a>
I found net-http-spy, seems to provide the feedback I need.
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<rhys>
"other public logging is prohibited"
<rhys>
lol?
<popl>
rhys: many channels on freenode have a policy about no public logging.
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<Buuyo>
is there a good ruby lib out there with a bunch of directed network ranking algorithms already implemented?
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<yoshie902a>
rhys: If the public logging comment was directed to me. It's not public and I'm only using it to see the uri posted by the gem to debug.
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<scottstamp>
I'm writing a simple little app to crawl and download images from a site, I was wondering if there was a way to asynchronously download the images? It'd really speed up the process.