<xybre>
I've worked with Rails for 7 years and I just feel it steers people the wrong way and encourages bad habits.
<xybre>
Especially noobs.
<epochwolf>
xybre: noobs will always noob.
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<xybre>
epochwolf: of course. But Rails gives them the rope with which to hang themselves.
<epochwolf>
if you give them a box cutter instead of safety scissors, they'll do stupid things.
<rien>
xybre: I agree, but I'd be interested to know from you which bad habits you think it encourages.
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<epochwolf>
xybre: counter point: let'em hang
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<xybre>
If you've been doing it a while and understand object oriented programming and you work on a team that understands Ruby, you can work around it, but Rails will not make it easy.
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<xybre>
epochwolf: Yeah, that'd be great, but they're hanging the whole team, including myself.
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<epochwolf>
xybre: you're saying there's a mismatch between rails and good practices?
<rien>
xybre: wow you seem to be in a similar situation to mine
<epochwolf>
in general
<xybre>
Yes
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<epochwolf>
I'd tend to agree.
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<epochwolf>
forms -> AR is not a good idea.
<rien>
why?
<xybre>
ActiveRecord is really neat and quick for prototyping, but for the real world it encourages you to put everything in your model. People will honestly have no idea where to put code if it can't go in the model.
<epochwolf>
rien: the data you need to collect on a particular form won't match the database representation in most apps.
<xybre>
The USER model. The USER. Thoe horror. The cyclopean horror.
<epochwolf>
The model shouldn't need to compensate for that.
<xybre>
Every system the User becomes a god object.
<rien>
xybre: That is one of the most important reasons I want to switch away from Rails (models encourage incorrect modeling of the business domain)
<epochwolf>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
<epochwolf>
It would be nice if rails could have a better way to seperate that stuff out.
<rien>
I always hear that but I don't have the USer-god problem
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<xybre>
ActiveRecord::Base objects are not "models". They are allll kinds of things, but not actual models. If you use them like repositories (as per Object ORiented Rails) things get much better.
<epochwolf>
rien: I've worked on several enterprise apps, it's a problem.
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* xybre
nods
<rien>
epochwolf: maybe I'm misidentifying. what's a clue that I have a god object?
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<heftig>
it contains 50% of your code
<rien>
oh....
<rien>
that's Fulfillment for me
<epochwolf>
rien: models become messes containing view <-> database mapping, business logics, and querying.
<rien>
yep, Fulfillment then :)
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<epochwolf>
rien: models should never contain business logic beyond basic database validation.
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<entelechios>
Hello all
<epochwolf>
unfortunaetly rails doesn't have a good way to split taht up
<entelechios>
If anyone has any tips as to what might be something close to finding a solution that'd be highly regarded :)
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<rien>
epochwolf: that's my hang up with it. Rails does not encourage proper modeling, division of concerns, etc. it thinks tables have a 1-to-1 relationship with models. ugh.
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<rien>
luckily I didn't let it taint the word "model" in my team.
<rien>
we design the proper domain models around rails
<heftig>
well, activerecord classes map tables
<heftig>
but those need not be your only model classes
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<rien>
xybre: any tips for when I migrate (rewrite in) to sinatra? things you miss the most, or new ways to think about things? (I've never been deep into Rails so not much unlearning to be done I guess)
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<rien>
heftig: it's like epochwolf said, people don't know where to put their stuff so they shove it into the models for the tables
<rien>
it doesn't provide the right encouragement and it misconstrues what a model is.
<rien>
xybre: another reason I'm moving away is all the implicit magic Rails is so fond of, that gives me so much pain when troubleshooting, as Rails loves to throw exceptions left and right and often its exceptions mask the real exception that I'm interested in
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<rien>
so I might use DataMapper instead of AR when I switch.
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<rien>
as it's less magical
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<rien>
epochwolf: the app I work on is not customer facing, so that's probably why User isn't a god object here
<xybre>
rien: there's no router helpers in Sinatra, but then again its also trivial to figure out whats going on because the Sinatra DSL lets you define them inline. There's no hard "controller" object, but you can make them if you want.
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<rien>
xybre: I've always thought Rails handling of routing so opaque. I really like Sinatra's approach in that regard.
<xybre>
rien: You'll need an ORM of some sort, if you can lend a hand with development I recommend Ruby Object Mapper, and if not, take a look at Sequel (I assume you're using SQL).
<rien>
ruby object mapper, never heard of it, googling it now
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<xybre>
rien: it's being built by the Datamapper guys, completely rewritten and modular
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<rien>
rom-rb.org ?
<rien>
oh wow interesting... why are the datamapper guys doing this? (what's the motive)
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<xybre>
It's a pure agnostic library. One of the devs mentioned they ran into a guy at a meetup who was using the Axiom lookup language they developed (sorta like Arel) to query data he loaded from files he parsed (no DB, jsut querying raw ruby objects).
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<epochwolf>
I like the way rail's routes work
<epochwolf>
It's very nice to be able to seperate the names from the urls.
<xybre>
rien: They wanted to release a new version of Datamapper but they took it back to the drawing board, and realized they could make each component stand alone, it resulted in a completely new set of gems that they've been working on for the last 3 years.
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<xybre>
epochwolf: There's no relationship between URL and object name in Sinatra.
<rien>
epochwolf: I say it's opaque because I don't like the stuff like new/member/collection... I'd rather see the url in the open
<rien>
cognitive load is then lower
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<rien>
xybre: I wonder why they decided to have explicit schema in ROM. Datamapper doesn't (afaik) and it's very nice also because of that
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<rien>
xybre: the very first example in rom-rb.org already shows code duplication :/
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<xybre>
rien: Datamapper has the schema defined in every object, similar to how Mongoid does it.
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<rien>
xybre: right, just once.
<epochwolf>
xybre: I would miss migrations.
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<rien>
epochwolf: why? I never understood the point.
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<epochwolf>
rien: migrations make life a lot easier.
<xybre>
epochwolf: I'd miss migrations if any company I'd worked for kept them up to date
<rien>
I feel your answer will finally make me understand it
<rien>
what palpable advantage do they provide?
<epochwolf>
xybre: the apps I used always used migrations to upgrade the schema
<xybre>
Our mgirations here won't even run, you have to load the schema.
<rien>
maybe I'm takingsomething for granted as I do use migrations now and I keep them up to date
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<xybre>
rien: thats not actually duplication you're seeing, they're demonstrating how mapping works
<epochwolf>
xybre: oh, the migrations never ran from beginning to end. We just used them to migrate from development to production.
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<rien>
epochwolf: how do they make life easier? I could never understand the triplication of data between migrations, schema.rb and AR
<epochwolf>
rien: schema.rb isn't duplicated.
<epochwolf>
it's a cache
<rien>
xybre: ah, ok. I'll look deeper in the docs.
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<epochwolf>
schema.rb is generated form the database.
<xybre>
epochwolf: yeah, but you can always do what migrations do .. Datamapper does it implicitly, for instance.
<epochwolf>
xybre: that only works if you add columns.
<epochwolf>
if you do anything more than that, you need manual scripts.
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<rien>
epochwolf: schema.rb I can understand, but what about the migrations themselves?
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<xybre>
Migrations are just helpers.
<epochwolf>
rien: they are scripts to change the schema.
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<epochwolf>
rien: migrations are 100% detached from AR.
<rien>
I didn't know they were detached, interesting.
<rien>
oh, all migrations are are scripts to change schema.rb ?
<epochwolf>
no.,
<epochwolf>
They edit the database directly.
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<epochwolf>
Schema.rb is generated from the database.
<rien>
why is schema.rb not enough, though?
<epochwolf>
schema.rb is used to built the database for tests.
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<epochwolf>
rien: schema.rb is a cache for the tests. AFAIK, it's never used outside of tests.
<rien>
ok I get schema.rb, I don't have a problem with it as it's generated automatically anyway :)
<epochwolf>
rien: schema.rb is a cache file.
<rien>
But I don't see the advantage of writing migrations, nor do I see the point, and I'm honestly trying to understand because clearly I'm missing something if you think they're helpful
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<rien>
and I already respect your opinions from your previosu messages :)
<epochwolf>
rien: migrations are sql scripts in a different format. That's all.
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<epochwolf>
rien: it's a formalized way to make database changes. That's actually really important.
<epochwolf>
Otherwise you need to find another solution for making database schema changes.
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<epochwolf>
Given the idiots I've worked with, rails migrations save hundreds of hours of trouble shooting per year.
<epochwolf>
if not thousnads.
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<rien>
epochwolf: if a given team documents their changes to the database in a file changes-db.txt and commits that file to source control diligently, would it be the same advantage?
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<epochwolf>
rien: not quite.
<epochwolf>
rien: you'd need to save a script that makes the db changes.
<epochwolf>
both up and down for every change.
<epochwolf>
and a way to record which migrations have been applied.
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<rien>
epochwolf: we never write the down ones... why are they useful?
<epochwolf>
rien: if you need to roll back.
<rien>
well we test stuff before deploying
<epochwolf>
rien: that works in theory
<epochwolf>
in practice, something can go really wrong.
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<epochwolf>
If you can rollback with one command, you can get services back up quickly.
<epochwolf>
okay, I need to go eat dinner.
<epochwolf>
rien: rails provides a ton of things you don't realize you need until everything goes to shit.
<rien>
epochwolf: thanks for taking the time to explain
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<rien>
epochwolf: I'll hit some SO articles to get a better picture of it
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<epochwolf>
rien: read the rails guides instead
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<rien>
epochwolf: yes that's exactly why I was asking. I need to know what I'll miss if I switch from Sinatra
<Diranged>
In ruby, can i configure my object class so that its never instantiated more than once?
<Diranged>
similar to a singleton type object in python?
<rien>
like I said, I am probably taking for granted the advantages of migrations because I do use them
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<epochwolf>
rien: I did a php app the other weekend
<rien>
epochwolf: well I'm more looking for a synthesized explanation of why migrations save your bacon
<rien>
some SO articles sometimes hitthat spot nicely
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<epochwolf>
rien: rails has built in crypot available, php requires me to compile extra modules.
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<epochwolf>
openssl_random_pseudo_bytes isn't in stock php
<rien>
epochwolf: I understand your point, but I prefer to have control over that instead of delegating it to any framework. I, however, am biased towards configuration over convention.
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<epochwolf>
my server's packaged version has it.
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<epochwolf>
rien: I used to be until I did some php, some lua, and some sinatra and realized everything rails provides for free.
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<epochwolf>
rien: rails is pretty damn secure by default. Everything else requires constant awareness of security issues.
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<rien>
epochwolf: I should first qualify my project is not customer facing, so security is not a priority, but point well taken
<epochwolf>
okay, I need foodz
<rien>
I'll keep that in mind, definitely
<epochwolf>
rien: I don't ever design without security.
<rien>
epochwolf: nice chatting, bon appetit!
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<rien>
they don't pay me enough to be concerned about security, hah
<rien>
or rather, they themselves don't care about it.
<epochwolf>
rien: I'm a professional. Not some hack.
<rien>
me too. all my time is taken by delivering stuff that works.
<epochwolf>
If I can avoid it, I don't work for a company that doesn't care.
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<epochwolf>
rien: yeah, I know the feeling.
<epochwolf>
still, security is automatic for me.
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<epochwolf>
When I take shortcuts, I quanfity them and design them carefully.
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<epochwolf>
It's just not in my nature to bang out code without thinking. I got out of that 4 years ago.
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<rien>
epochwolf: I think I need to pick up a book on how to design with security in mind, then.
<epochwolf>
rien: eh… I learned it over time.
<rien>
epochwolf: I never bang out code either. my coworkers and I go to the whiteboard to model stuff first
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<epochwolf>
rien: there's just a few small things to remember.
<rien>
epochwolf: I'm a book rat, I only learn over time stuff there's no books for :)
<epochwolf>
rien: a book on web security would be too broad.
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<rien>
I believe I might have come across a thin tome on "security for developers"
<epochwolf>
you just need basic web app security and basic server security
<rien>
can't remember the name now of course
<epochwolf>
k
* epochwolf
tries to leave again
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<rien>
epochwolf: I know for instance not to use md5 and other easy hash algos for passwords
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<epochwolf>
rien: one of several things.
<rien>
epochwolf: we can talk more later :)
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<epochwolf>
no, I don' thave time.
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<epochwolf>
I need to be taking care of moving to my new job.
<rien>
oh wow, congrat
<rien>
s
<rien>
you should go then. thanks for the nice convo.
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<epochwolf>
I'm really stressed right now and it's not going to get better if I can't do some writing.
<epochwolf>
okay, out
<rien>
see ya!
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<Kol>
not too happy with the thought, but it'sseems to be the only way to exactly replicate that behavior
<Kol>
which is kinda ridiculous imo
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<rien>
Kol: DateTime.valid_date?
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<rien>
no, not that either, sorry
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<rien>
every solution in that page is misguided
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<ziggles>
I'm currently writing a gem that scrapes a data source for different kinds of data. Right now it's a bunch of scrapers and im realizing that a good solution would be to have "models" that basically provide consumers with normalized data... and then "scrapers" that do the dirty work of getting data off pages... Any suggestions for existing gems or patterns i should consider before diving in?
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<ziggles>
Right now i was simply going to use PORO and go to town but figured i'd ask before.
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<sevenseacat>
ive done something similar - have an object that represents the scraped page, and another object that builds data records based off that page
<ziggles>
sevenseacat: yeah pretty much. Like if you wanted to scrape twitter.. you might have a scraper for TweetScraper, UserScraper, SearchScraper etc...
<ziggles>
Then obviously some models like Tweet, User, Search etc.
<ziggles>
Maybe a client that u can do like TwitterClient.search("whatever") and it returns a bunch of Tweet objects
<ziggles>
sevenseacat: it seems really common so I was thinking maybe there's already an established way of doing similar things or a gem specifically for scraping in that fashion
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<sevenseacat>
i dont know
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<rien>
ziggles: may I ask what is your tooling for scraping those pages?
<ziggles>
rien: you're asking about my tooling and you don't even buy my dinner?
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<ziggles>
lol
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<ziggles>
rien: I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but i'm just basically pulling page data out with nokogiri
<xybre>
It does say it right there resting. And yes, everything in Ruby is an object, even numbers, booleans, and strings.
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<xybre>
Godd2: that seems.. bad.
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<xybre>
Especially on Windows.
<Godd2>
bad as in I shouldn't do that? or bad as in I shouldn't use Windows?
<resting>
sevenseacat: i tried po (the object that i inspected), po.dirname.downcase, irb reports there's no downcase method, that why i inspected it, but have no clue what type it is
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<resting>
sevenseacat: i'm learning ruby, so in these cases, we would usually convert them to strings with .to_s ? i'm just trying to know the underlyings so i avoid trial and errors
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<sevenseacat>
im confused.
<resting>
lol..hm..
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<xybre>
Godd2: well, "t" mode is text mode, which could have really weird repucussions on a binary file. Give it a shot, but be careful.
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<resting>
what i'm trying to say, how do i know what data type Pathname::dirname returns? i dont think its a string
<xybre>
resting: when you call .inspect a lot of objects will straight up TELL you what they are. "#<ThisIsWhatIAm:23423>"
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<xybre>
resting: Or.. you could, you know jsut call po.class and it will give you the object's class.
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<sevenseacat>
+1
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<xybre>
And then you can sue the magic of http://apidock.com/ruby to search for the class (if its Core or Standard library) to find out more info.
<xybre>
s/sue/use
<resting>
xybre, sevenseacat thanks..while trying to explain i think i can call the notation of "#<ThisIsWhatIAm:23423>" as an object?
<resting>
well..everything in ruby is an object..but to do downcase, i need to convert that Pathname object to a string object?
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<xybre>
resting: its just a description of an object
<resting>
xybre: thanks..that clears things up for a noobie..lol..
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<xybre>
resting: If you want to downcase a Pathname, you have to convert it to a string with .to_s
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<Godd2>
xybre: alright, I'll keep that in mind. thanks for your help
<xybre>
resting: .inspect sends a messageto the object saying "tell me about yourself" and the string you get back is the object's way of describing what it is. But if you just want the string representation of it (not always the same thing) you can call .to_s on it.
<xybre>
Godd2: np :)
<resting>
xybre: sure :)
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<l34ch>
hey guys
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<Godd2>
mornin
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<ccolorado>
Hi, i want to "consume" the trailing words from a string if they are within a list of words. The string is a movie record which contains the name followed by a set of keywords that specify if the movie is on 3D, imax and so on.
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<ccolorado>
I can't think of a mechanism to substract in reverse that doesn't involve splitting the string by each word
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<rien>
ccolorado: can you provide example data and what they'd look like after the transformation you're proposing?
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<sevenseacat>
looks like you just want the first word then?
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<ccolorado>
sevenseacat: it certantly looks like that, perhaps not the best example, "Wolvering the inmortal Dig 3D Dolby" , this would idealy return result { :title => "Wolvering the inmortal", :specs => [3D, Dolby] }
<sevenseacat>
so where did Dig go and why?
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<ccolorado>
sevenseacat: typo
<ccolorado>
First I thougth you where looking for user 'Dig'
<sevenseacat>
well that helps
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<ccolorado>
it should have been result = { :title => "Wolvering the inmortal", :specs => [Dig, 3D, Dolby] } #order of result["specs"] doesn't really matter
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<sevenseacat>
but Dig isnt in your list of stopword-type things
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<rien>
ccolorado: is Dig always the word that divids the title from the tags?
<rien>
sevenseacat: what's the bot sigil here?
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<sevenseacat>
bot sigil?
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<rien>
> 1 + 1
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<rien>
! 1 + 1
<rien>
the symbol we type for the bot to run some code... that should be in the /topic
<ccolorado>
sevenseacat: that was probably my fault
<rien>
ccolorado: ok you want this: "Wolverine is immortal Dig 3D Dolby".split.split_at_index("Dig"){|title,specs| # do something with title and spec)
<rien>
ccolorado: all you need to do now is code split_at_index... just find the first index for the parameter given, then pass those two arrays to a yield block
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<rien>
"those two arrays" being the two arrays you'll get when you do yield array[0..index-1], array[index..-1]
<ccolorado>
rien: The keword list in the record do not allways start with Dig
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<rien>
then do .... split_at_index(/(Dig|Dag|Dog)/){|title,specs| .... same deal
<rien>
this top down approach will take you far. now you know which method you need to code, and how it needs to behave
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<ccolorado>
rien: I see now, thanks so much rien & sevenseacat
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<rien>
ccolorado: :)
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<tobiasvl>
iIlL10Oo: why did you think they would have the same class? what were you trying to do?
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<mbuf>
is there an example on how to use begin..rescue..end for system commands executed within backquote? or is there any other recommended option?
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<iIlL10Oo>
tobiasvl: I just thinking , not realy doing something
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<tobiasvl>
ok
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<bnagy>
mbuf: backtick commands won't raise
<bnagy>
ever, as far as I know
<eliasp>
does Mocha provide a way, to ignore any invokations of an .expect()-ed method besides the one matching the specified .with() params, e.g. Dir.expects(:exists?).with('/sys/class/net').returns(true)
<bnagy>
if you want the error status look at something in Open3 imo
<eliasp>
right now, it monitors all invokations of Dir.exists? even with completely different params than specified in .with()
<bnagy>
depending on your distro that might mean you just need OS build tools package, or it might mean you need a ruby-dev package, depending how you installed ruby
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<Quest>
bnagy, nope. iam using linux
<Quest>
ubuntu
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<Quest>
bnagy, istalled it by package manager
<bnagy>
ok. Like I said, for some distros, which I think includes ubuntu, the 'normal' package doesn't install the ruby dev stuff, which is kinda lame
<Quest>
bnagy, going to install ruby-dev
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<bnagy>
I would recommend installing it via chruby or something, fwiw, but try ruby-dev
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<bnagy>
maybe ubuntu has a ruby-xxx-full package as well.. I forget
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<Quest>
k
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<dagobah>
How can I get the previous object in an iteration, the opposite of next?
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<bnagy>
you can't
<bnagy>
gone forever
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<bnagy>
you can use each_with_index, or you could use inject or something horrible
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<Quest>
bnagy, its working but giving dependancy problem too.
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<Quest>
bnagy, do you know scss / sass ? error main.scss (Line 3: Undefined variable: "$h-shadow".)
<Quest>
for @nixin boxShadow($h-shadow:0px, $v-shadow:2px, $blur:2px, $spread:0px, $color:black, $inset:outset) {
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<bnagy>
nope, means nothin to me
<Quest>
nothing?
<Quest>
k
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<dagobah>
bnagy: How can I use each with index? Just decrement the index?
<apeiros>
Quest: shouldn't that be @mixin ?
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<buzzybron>
whats the difference between the PGconn & PG::Connection under Classes/Modules?
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<callmeivan>
does somebody know how i can save my regex command into a string so i can pass it to my function? it does not seem to work as soon as i save the regex into a variable and pass it to my function
<Quest>
how do I create a generic @mixin in sass for multiple values with comma , and i might now know how many values would each include of mixin would have? http://pastebin.com/nP4DBGFX
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<callmeivan>
ah, i did not realize / .... / could not be in the object
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<tobiasvl>
the slashes are the regexp delimiters
<tobiasvl>
like the quotation marks are string delimiters
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<callmeivan>
yes, thank you
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<shevy>
I want to check whether cmake is available from within a ruby script
<shevy>
is x = system 'cmake' an ok way to do so? x seems to be nil when the argument given could not be found
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<n00b2>
please help. Why is 'while 1\n ret = myloop(arg) \n arg = ret' not working as I expected. I'm new to ruby, please forgive my perhaps stupid question
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<tobiasvl>
n00b2: use ; instead of \n for readability
<tobiasvl>
why are you using an endless while loops?
<tobiasvl>
ruby doesn't use loops a lot
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<n00b2>
that's not the problem. but the problem is the loop keeps looping with the arg (=string) defined before the while loop
<tobiasvl>
please post the whole code in a gist (see topic)
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<shevy>
n00b2 you don't show where arg is defined
<shevy>
btw if you want to use a loop like this, use loop { } rather than while 1, that is just ugly
<n00b2>
arg is defined before the while loop like so: arg = "a" -> then the myloop returns "ab" for example and I want the myloop("ab") in the second run
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<tobiasvl>
n00b2: please post the whole code in a gist (see topic)
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<tobiasvl>
i don't want to have to piece together the code you're running from your implications
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<shevy>
n00b2 you need to show all code that is relevant to your problem, ideally as little as possible, in one pastie, including the error message there
<shevy>
also "not working as I expected" does not really describe much, what else did you expect, what error do you recieve etc...
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<n00b2>
striped down it comes down to this...
<n00b2>
def myloop(a); return a + "b"; end; arg="x";while 1;ret=myloop(arg);arg=ret;end
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<shevy>
well the code works as expected
<shevy>
you are running the loop ;)
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<shevy>
hmm is there an easy way to remove array entry 5 from an array?
<shevy>
array = %w( a b c d e f g h i j )
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<tobiasvl>
shevy: delete_at
<shevy>
ah cool, thanks
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<n00b2>
damn! sorry guys! my mistake was returning the wrong value! Thanks for your help anyway!! I was looking for the error in the wrong place :-(
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<tobiasvl>
n00b2: great!
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<tobiasvl>
shevy: remember that indices start at 0 ;)
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<shevy>
hmmm damn yeah
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<shevy>
I am trying to map pure "linux commands" to ruby commands
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<shevy>
so "ln foo bar" but also "ln -v foo bar"
<shevy>
or "cp" etc... so that these things can work on windows too when one has installed only ruby
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<shevy>
I did split at ' ' though, and then "ln -v foo bar" was different to "ln foo bar", leading to a small bug
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<jp->
shevy, i'd use the which command or check in $PATH with ruby.
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<tobiasvl>
strings can't "contain" nil, variables can have nil as value
<jlebrech>
yeah but the string might be a nil object, want it to count as blank too
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<zets>
just check if the object is nil
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<jp->
puts "It's nil!" if foo.nil?
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<tobiasvl>
ok, what about the blank? if the string just contains a blank anywhere? if it's one character which is a blank? var == ' '
<banister>
jlebrech: str.to_s.empty?
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<tobiasvl>
why to_s ?
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<tobiasvl>
oh, for nil
<banister>
tobiasvl: so that it also checks for str == nil
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<tobiasvl>
ah, "blank" means empty string...
<tobiasvl>
thought it meant space
<tobiasvl>
or whitespace
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<tobiasvl>
in that case banister's way is best
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<_br_>
banister: Intersting article! Thanks for that. Psych papers have to be taken really skeptical these days... Need to ask my remote-prof about this :)
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<banister>
_br_: it reminded me of what you were saying, they also indicate in that article that there is currently a re-evaluation going on a large number of psych studies (just as you said) :)
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<_br_>
banister: Yeah, that will be really interesting. I suspect they will come back and knock out maybe 30-50% of papers as faked data, false math etc. terrible. Certainly going to hurt the field, but bad science is bad science.
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<Stelian1>
I take it #ruby don't love #rails that much? :)
<_br_>
Well, I don't really care. Its just yet another framework.
<Donovan>
I see a lot of people dive into rails without understanding ruby first. IMO.
<Stelian1>
Donovan: that makes 0 sense
<Donovan>
well, meaning they learn just enough ruby to code in rails.
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<Donovan>
they don't really understand the nuances of ruby and what you can do with it.
* Donovan
shrugs
<Stelian1>
I find that to be retarded...
<Stelian1>
than again I come from a php background where people don't understand types
<Stelian1>
or computers
<_br_>
Anyone remember the days when Zed Shaw used to write alot of fun articles about the "Rails is a Ghetto" ? :)
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<Donovan>
heh
<shevy>
I remember it was a good day for he switched to python
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<_br_>
hehe
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<shevy>
Stelian1 the two communities partially overlap, but also partially do not overlap. If I would have to pull out a number, I would say that about 50% of the people here on #ruby do not use rails
<_br_>
well, he is quite a character. The mongrel2 codebase is quite interesting though.
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<shevy>
rails indeed attracted a lot of people to ruby
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<Donovan>
it did me
<_br_>
tell me about it. Have a guy here working, who recently learned abit of rails and speaks of it as it having "god powers" --- wth.
<Donovan>
I was a perl/python programmer... dove into rails to see what the hubub was all about, that launched me into ruby. Never looked back.
<shevy>
hehe
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<shevy>
god powers?
<shevy>
that almost sounds like a religion :)
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<Donovan>
isn't it?
<Donovan>
=)
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<_br_>
ahh rails as a religion. get off my lawn.. :]
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<Donovan>
heh
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<shevy>
Donovan, why did you not stay with python instead?
<Donovan>
people tend to get very emotional about their chosen paths in life, be it programming language de jour
<Donovan>
or whatnot
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<Donovan>
shevy: I found ruby more to my syntactic liking
<Donovan>
something pure about it, can't really put my finger on it
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<_br_>
Sugar, everyone loves the sugar.
<Donovan>
yeah, I suppose so
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<shevy>
hmm
<shevy>
it is more than sugar alone, it helps my brain think
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<Donovan>
yeah. When I was first starting out, if I wanted to code something I would just code it the way I thought it should be... and more often than not, it either worked, or was very close.
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<Donovan>
so me, that's elegant
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<shevy>
yeah
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<shevy>
syntactically ruby is rather flexible
<_br_>
yep, classical TMTOWTDI
<_br_>
got that from perl I think.
<Donovan>
yeah
<Donovan>
which is why I prefer it to python
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<shevy>
perl is syntactically a mess though
<Donovan>
but, also, the code it readable.
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<shevy>
foreach my $key (keys %apip) {
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<shevy>
$wd{$apip{$key}} = "!!!!MISSING!!!!";
<Donovan>
I would often find myself going back over perl code I wrote just months earlier trying to figure out what I was doing. Even with comments, it was a pain.
<_br_>
quite right, in perl you can build which is after a couple of days really unreadable.
<diegok>
shevy: sure. I prefer ruby, but we had perl as a real option for production code loong before and it can do almost the same as ruby (and still faster in many aspects)
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<diegok>
also, gems are still not there to CPAN
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<diegok>
hope it will some day
<Donovan>
I'm a long-time perl developer. I never use it anymore.
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<Donovan>
but yes, CPAN is very nice.
<Donovan>
however, bundler is quite nice too
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<Donovan>
along with rvm
<diegok>
Donovan: I still do lot of things in perl because very fast XS extensions from CPAN
<Donovan>
I suppose it depends on what you need to do
<Donovan>
the right tool for the job, right?
<diegok>
I really love ruby because it takes lot of things I love from perl in deed :)
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<diegok>
then I won't be picking the best tool for the job :-/
<Donovan>
LOL
<diegok>
Donovan: other thing I really love of working with perl is module support and docs.
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<Donovan>
ruby has that too, I don't miss that at all
<banister>
blocks in ruby annoy me though
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<_br_>
why?
<diegok>
ruby blocks rock's!
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<Donovan>
yeah, I like blocks in ruby too
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<banister>
because they're special-cased, they're not normal arguments. So you have to treat them differently
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<banister>
but that is also their greatest strength, so it's a double edged sword :)
<diegok>
my point is that perl still is a really GOOD tool on my toolbox and being a ruby programmer is super easy to use/copy from perl/CPAN stuff :)
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<diegok>
I've ported resque to perl/CPAN and I can mix both of my loves into my daily work :)
<banister>
_br_: if you start trying to do functional programming in ruby, then you get a lot of incidental complexity managing blocks, so recently i've just started passing explicit lambdas instead, which almost look as good
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<banister>
my_method ->(x) { "hi boys!" }
<Donovan>
diegok: that's great. Doing that would hurt my head. =)
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<diegok>
oh!, BTW, in some stupid tests I did, it was faster over resque on 1.9 :-)
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<diegok>
Donovan: :)
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<_br_>
banister: Well, thats the lisp inheritance. There is much in ruby which is certainly not perfect... hopefully getting there ... 3.0 4.0 :)
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<waxjar>
does anyone else think "functional programming" is a terrible name? :p
<_br_>
how would you else call it?
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<waxjar>
no clue
<Donovan>
heya waxjar
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<_br_>
Logical, Procedural, Object Orientated, Aspect Orientated, Functional, ... I think I'm still missing some
<waxjar>
hi Donovan
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<Donovan>
let the marketing folks come up with the press jargon. =)
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<_br_>
Anyone here using AOP these days?
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<waxjar>
i dont even know what that is
<_br_>
Rather fun actually, supposed to be the next big thing after OOP.
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<speakingcode-wor>
banister: thanks
<Xeago>
banister: weird that you ahve to specify the @ sign in there
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<Xeago>
what can it return if you omit it?
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<banister>
Xeago: i dont know, try it :P
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<speakingcode-wor>
banister: anything similar for local variables, class variables, etc?
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<banister>
speakingcode-wor: local variables you just use eval()
<speakingcode-wor>
ah
<banister>
speakingcode-wor: class variables, maybe, but who cares about those
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<speakingcode-wor>
banister: thanks. one more question. how can i assign a value to the var returned by instance_variable_get? doing instance_variable_get(...) = value doesn't seem to work
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<_br_>
ravster: Something like this will spit out HTTP status codes for you. Doesn't do perfectly what you want, its just a snipped I took from a local gem here we made. @app.call(env).on_complete { |response| status_code = response[:status].to_i }
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<_br_>
ravster: inside that block we have a case statment which throws custom exceptions for us
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<ravster>
How do I find out what http error codes match to faraday errors?
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<ravster>
I'm trying to confirm that a ClientError isn't thrown when the server responds with a HTTP-422.
<Guest87977>
this seems to opacify correct but doesnt lightens the color. background-color: opacify(lighten( rgba($baseColorRed,$baseColorGreen,$baseColorBlue, 0.3), 10%),0.8); why is that?
<Guest87977>
sass ^
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<HJvortex>
hi
<HJvortex>
can someone please help me in this small problem . i have explained it in gits
<_br_>
Guest87977: Well this isn't #css or #sass here, but opacity controls the alpha channel, not the luminance. RGB does not support that. For luminance you would need the data in e.g. HSV format
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<Guest87977>
_br_, i have done darken() and lighten() on rbga. it works fine.
<Guest87977>
but its not working ok in combination with opacity
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<_br_>
HJvortex: Don't use "$" in your variable names. That is probably your issue.
<_br_>
HJvortex: That is perlism. In ruby $ variables are globals and use is discouraged.
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<HJvortex>
_br_: so if i remove the $ then what should i use in the puts to evaluate the final value
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<ravster>
_jesse_: thanks
<_br_>
HJvortex: Your example is a bit weird you coded there. You are trying to get the value of a new variable which name you constructed?
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<_br_>
Guest87977: Go to #sass or #css
<HJvortex>
_br_: yes
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<Guest87977>
ok
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<HJvortex>
_br_: so the idea is to construct the variable from what user input and then print out the value of that variable which is pre set
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<_br_>
HJvortex: I think you are trying to do something like this (guessing here) @actualvalue = 100 ; abc = "act" ; xyz = "ual"; result = instance_variable_get( "@#{abc}#{xyz}value" )
<_br_>
(according to your example)
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<HJvortex>
_br_: ill try that :)
<_br_>
have fun
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<HJvortex>
_br_: no luck its printing out an empty string
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<_br_>
HJvortex: paste "@actualvalue = 100 ; abc = "act" ; xyz = "ual"; result = instance_variable_get( "@#{abc}#{xyz}value" )" into your irb and look at the result variable
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<HJvortex>
_br_: ahaaa missed the @ sign
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<davidcelis>
ah, yeah. so the return values are the same too
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<davidcelis>
sometimes they arent
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<Kelet>
! methods by convention should return self (thus, sort! should return itself, which is what you're saying)
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<Kelet>
Although all standard library stuff that has ! returns self, it might be worth testing libraries that implement ! methods, because you can't trust everyone to follow convention.
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<bzitzow>
I'm looking for an open source library to contribute to
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<neg_01>
I have rspec Automation script, I am searching continues integration with hudson, any suggestion?
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<davidcelis>
bzitzow: ok
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<YaNakilon>
Kelet ! methods should return nil sometimes
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<davidcelis>
why coerce a nil *args into an empty array, but not a nil **args into an empty hash?
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<bzitzow>
I should specify, I'm new to ruby and looking for some low hanging fruit on an open source project or two to contribute
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<YaNakilon>
"I hate consistency" (c) matz lol
<pjeide>
".. as a reason to change."
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<YaNakilon>
btw i never used nil.to_a
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<jp->
is it just me or is using ruby for development with anything other than the standard library un-necessarily difficult on centos 6? gems seem either unavailable through the package manager or just won't install using gem.
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<jp->
maybe it's the antiquated version it ships with.
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<_br_>
bzitzow: Just find some project you like and see if there are open issues you can tackle. Try to fix it and (in case its on github) send a pull-request.
<Guest87977>
_br_, i guess scss is better and latest?
<_br_>
Guest87977: Please follow the advice of apeiros and banister. This is not #sass, this is #ruby.
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<Guest87977>
_br_, if they asked politely. sure.
<Guest87977>
_br_, thanks. and no problem if you cant help
<_br_>
Dangerious waters.
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<apeiros>
what a douche
<_br_>
jep.
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<apeiros>
I mean at the very least you, _br_, asked him politely.
<Diranged>
Hey I'm working on some ruby code and trying to build a unit test, but I've got a bit of a problem..
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* Guest87977
slaps apeiros
<matti>
Who
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<matti>
I missed kicking.
<matti>
apeiros: ;]
<_br_>
apeiros: I think I told him that before several times already.
<apeiros>
well, guess then…
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<_br_>
Quite justified.
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<Diranged>
The unit=testing framework is rspec-puppet, and we create a function in puppet called 'getsecret'. I can unit-test that function just fine. However, that function creates an object of class 'Thycotic' and I'm not sure how to mock that class..
<Diranged>
I'm more of a python person, so i'm a little stuck here
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<apeiros>
Diranged: would depend on the mock/stub framework you use
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<apeiros>
and pretty sure its documents show how to mock a class
<Diranged>
I'm a bit confused about how to mock it though when its created from within the puppet function?
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<spike|spiegel>
poor little Guest87977
<Diranged>
In python, I can just access the variables inside the first package, get the object its created, and then mock parts of that object..
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<Travis-42>
What memory profiling tools are there for ruby 2.0? Most seem to be for 1.8
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<_br_>
shevy: yeah MRI ftw
<spike|spiegel>
Travis-42: pretty much forget about profiling.
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<Travis-42>
spike|spiegel: Is there a good approach to identifying memory leaks without profiling? I've got a process that grows from 100MB of memory to 500MB over several hours, but am having trouble figuring out where the mistake is.
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<_br_>
Travis-42: You can use RubyProf::Memory and Kcachegrind I think.
<Travis-42>
I'll look at them br, thanks
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<spike|spiegel>
not on 2.0 AFAIK
<_br_>
Hm, long running ruby processes, always seem to be a source of pain.
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<spike|spiegel>
Travis-42: the question is: does it keep growing or halts at 500?
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<spike|spiegel>
rails is horrible in that regard, it hogs in hunderds quite easily
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<Travis-42>
spike|spiegel: That's the memory limit of the instance it's in (512). But the graph is a linear increase.
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<cheenpo_>
anybody run into...
<cheenpo_>
mysql.h is missing. please check your installation of mysql and try again.
<cheenpo_>
when trying to install the mysql2 gem with MariaDB?
<shevy>
I sometimes have this when another error happens before, and the reporting is then too stupid to give me the real error, often enough this can be seen in a file though like config.log or similar logs
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<cool>
Guys, I am solving Problem Euler problems to learn ruby & I am stuck at problem #8. can anyone point out what I am doing wrong? https://gist.github.com/anonymous/6234753
<shevy>
I dont know what is problem euler, I am not sure what problem you have either
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<Mon_Ouie>
cool: You're not adding the solution to your result array
<cool>
shevy: I am referring to http://projecteuler.net. basically, there is a 1000digit number, we have find greatest product of five consecutive digits
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<shevy>
ok
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<shevy>
yeah, realized that then ... five_digit_pair.map {|elem| elem.to_i}.reject(&:zero?).inject(:*) # => 360, you indeed do not seem to collect these results
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<cool>
now i get 31752 as answer but site says its wrong. where did I go wrong? should I be accounting for zeros?
<cool>
or there is some other error I am making
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<apeiros>
reject zero?
<apeiros>
is that allowed by the question?
<shevy>
why do you reject zeros
<apeiros>
the product of the five consecutive digits "74902" is 0
<Nilium>
Is this that one where it's got like eight rows of digits?
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<Nilium>
Just use your eyeballs.
<apeiros>
not 504
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<shevy>
good point
<apeiros>
cool: also to_i only once and work from the resulting array -> faster
<apeiros>
cool: and Array#each_cons ;-)
<Nilium>
Also, if you've got a zero anywhere in your five digits, the answer is incorrect, just so you know.
<apeiros>
basically, #8 is a nice 1 liner without any bad code in it
<cool>
apeiros: I removed request zero call but still same wrong result. 31752
* cool
checks Array#check_cons
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<snovak>
Ooo - each_cons.
<snovak>
I forgot about that.
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<apeiros>
cool: I can give you a hint: it's too small
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<apeiros>
cool: the other thing you go wrong:
<Mon_Ouie>
Yeah, the fastest way to find it is probably just to Ctrl+F "99…"
<apeiros>
with your approach, in "1234567890" there's only 2 products
<apeiros>
Mon_Ouie: only because they badly distributed their factors :-p
<cool>
yes, I want to divide everything into 200pices of 5 each. Sum them & get the max
<apeiros>
cool: yeah, that's wrong
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<cool>
oh
<apeiros>
in "1234567890" there's 5 times 5 consecutive digits
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<apeiros>
"12345", then "23456", then "34567" etc.
<apeiros>
but you make it "12345", then "67890". you miss 3.
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<apeiros>
oh, actually in 10 digits, there's 6 groups of 5 consecutive digits.
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<cool>
Right, that's mean I will have to try out all the permutations of that 1000digit number!
<apeiros>
no
<apeiros>
only consecutive ones
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<apeiros>
you start at string[0,5], move on to string[1,5], then string[2,5] etc.
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<canton7>
cool, apeiros missed the each_cons(5), like he said on the next line
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<canton7>
so n.scan(/\d/).map(&:to_i).each_cons(5).map { |n| n.inject(:*) }.max
<banisterfiend>
Nilium: so you'd just wrap a fixnum and do a bunch of bitwise operations on it but expose a nice interface?
<Nilium>
A fixnum or an array of fixnums.
<cool>
canton7: Right!
<cool>
works now!
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<Nilium>
A bignum could probably be used as a bitset if it had a []= method to match its [], but I'm not sure how bignum's implemented, so it might not be possible to modify one.
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<Nilium>
A Fixnum provides [] to access bits, but you can't modify those.
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<Nilium>
So an array of Fixnums is usually the best bet.
<diegoviola>
gotta love chruby, finally something that makes sense
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<Mon_Ouie>
I'd think String would be the best way to implement it
<canton7>
Nilium, why not use the old bitwise operators? mybignum |= (1 << whatever)
<Nilium>
That's what I do.
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<Nilium>
Well, for fixnums, anyway.
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<Nilium>
Doing it for a bignum would probably result in a new bignum being allocated per bitwise op.
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<banisterfiend>
Mon_Ouie: Nope.
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<Mon_Ouie>
banisterfiend: It's not the same when you do it.
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<banisterfiend>
Mon_Ouie: I'm still learning :P
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<shevy>
lol.... errno.h documentation:
<shevy>
"EGRATUITOUS: This error code has no purpose."
<Nilium>
You could do it with a string, too, just by using set/getbyte.
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<Nilium>
Thinking about it more, yeah, definitely use a string.
<Nilium>
Should sort of ensure cache locality and you don't lose a bit to a fixnum.
<banisterfiend>
Nilium: btw when you were evaluating ruby gaming libraries, did you look at Mon_Ouie's one?
<banisterfiend>
(ray)
<Nilium>
No.
<Nilium>
I haven't evaluated them in the first place.
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<Nilium>
I evaluated the options for GL bindings and GL context/window creation libs, and if the gem went beyond the scope of that I ignoredi t.
<Nilium>
*ignored it
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<zorg24>
how does one get the current URI in rspec?
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<Nilium>
A current URI for what?
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<zorg24>
I'm writing tests for a rails app
<Mon_Ouie>
I assume you're talking about some web framework that you didn't mention
<Mon_Ouie>
(Well, now you did)
<Nilium>
A current URI for a test or something?
<Nilium>
Like URI(__FILE__)?
<Mon_Ouie>
Asking on #rubyonrails would probably make more sense
<zorg24>
ok thanks
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<differentSmoke>
hello
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<differentSmoke>
I got a short rails related but ultimately core ruby question
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<shevy>
ack
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<differentSmoke>
yes!
<Nilium>
Well, ask and then we'll maybe tell you to ask the rails channel.
<differentSmoke>
is there a way from preventing ruby from escaping strings?
<apeiros>
differentSmoke: ruby does not escape strings
<differentSmoke>
a way OF preventing
<Nilium>
What do you mean by ruby escaping strings?
<apeiros>
are you confusing inspect output with print output?
<Nilium>
Are you confusing interpolation with escapes?
<differentSmoke>
maybe.
<Nilium>
Give us an example string that is being escaped, as it were.
<zets>
are you talking about rails?
<Nilium>
He is, but he seems to think it's a core ruby thing, and I have no idea what he's actually talking about
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<differentSmoke>
well, I was given the impression for reading a large number of stack overflow posts that ruby did indeed escaped strings
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<Nilium>
What do you mean by escape?
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<Nilium>
You really, really need to clarify that first.
<differentSmoke>
the internal representation of the string is with the backslashes
<jrobeson>
differentSmoke, notice the difference .. with " or '
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<apeiros>
differentSmoke: no
<canton7>
differentSmoke, no. the internal representation doesn't have the backslashes. The backslashes are put in by the 'inspect' method on String
<differentSmoke>
ok ok.
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<apeiros>
and the backslashes are needed when you write a string literal. "\"" does not internally consist of "backslash followed by quote". it's just "quote".
<differentSmoke>
so "blabla""blabla" is a vaild string?
<apeiros>
no
<apeiros>
well, yes, but not the way you mean
<deviantlinux>
In a "rescue" block inside a begin/end block, Can I use any valid Ruby code, such as an if statement, or can you only use certain things there?
<orionstein>
"blabla\"\"blabla"
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<apeiros>
deviantlinux: rescue code can contain any ruby code.
<differentSmoke>
but what get's stored is "blabla""blabla"
<canton7>
the quotes around the whole thing are needed so that ruby knows that you want to store a string, as opposed to an int, value of another variable, etc
<apeiros>
this is a special case
<orionstein>
"\"blabla\"\"blabla\""
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<apeiros>
your first string is "blabla", your second is "blabla", and ruby concatenates them
<deviantlinux>
apeiros: thanks.
<apeiros>
that's really a special case
<apeiros>
and a bad example
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<differentSmoke>
haha, sorry
<jrobeson>
*special*
<differentSmoke>
ok. I guess a rails method is passing the result of inspect rather than the actual string
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<apeiros>
differentSmoke: almost certainly not
<apeiros>
differentSmoke: but since you said "backtrace" - in a backtrace you would *of course* use inspect
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<apeiros>
anything else makes no sense.
<differentSmoke>
I said backtrace?
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<apeiros>
oh, no, you said stack *overflow*
<deviantlinux>
Are variables inside a begin/end only available in the begin/end, or can I use them outside of it?
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<apeiros>
somehow overread that as stack trace
<differentSmoke>
could they get inspected when retrieved from an Array?
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<apeiros>
differentSmoke: dude, what *actual* problem do you experience
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<apeiros>
deviantlinux: begin/end does not introduce a new lexical scope. variables are visible outside.
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<differentSmoke>
json stored as a string in a MySQL database gets passed to a render json: arrayofrecords, and instead of getting a json array containing json objects, I get a json array containing strings
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<apeiros>
differentSmoke: my bet is on you doing a double to_json
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<differentSmoke>
uhm, yes now that you mention it that sounds pretty logical
<deviantlinux>
apeiros: Any idea why this http://pastebin.com/0P9j4ZCP (see Line 25-28) causes code below that line (the reply ERROR) not to be executed? Something's wrong there
<differentSmoke>
is there a to_unjson? (trying to be funny, hope I convey my meaning)
<apeiros>
deviantlinux: use something non-ad ridden and I'll look at it. e.g. gist.github.com
<apeiros>
and the other (stupid) way would be plain JSON.parse.
<differentSmoke>
well, there is an implicit to json
<apeiros>
yeah, you use render :json
<apeiros>
don't
<apeiros>
use render :text
<apeiros>
and set the proper headers.
<differentSmoke>
ok, will investigate. thanks!
<apeiros>
also, that part would be #rubyonrails
<apeiros>
as in "how do I render a json string without it getting called to_json on it again" (or somesuch)
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<differentSmoke>
yes yes, I apologize
<apeiros>
no need to apologize. just pointing out.
<differentSmoke>
now I understand why all the "how do I prevent ruby from escaping..." in StackOverflow were always left unanswered or the subject was changed
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<deviantlinux>
apeiros: ads? Adblocker plugins are your friend, but ok, sec
<apeiros>
deviantlinux: adblocker plugins are for suckers
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<apeiros>
I understand that the content I want needs ads to survive
<deviantlinux>
saves lives, man
<differentSmoke>
:/
<differentSmoke>
render text: still gives me the escaped representation
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<apeiros>
differentSmoke: then your double to_json happens earlier
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<cheenpo_>
anybody here have the mysql2 gem with MariaDB on centos 6.4 ?
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<apeiros>
differentSmoke: looking at my own controllers, render :json does not actually call to_json
<differentSmoke>
uhm...
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<apeiros>
at least not on a string
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<apeiros>
deviantlinux: other than that code itself erroring out, I see no reason why it would
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<deviantlinux>
apeiros: it seems like simply having the if statement there causes the issue. Like it doesn't like my variable.
<apeiros>
deviantlinux: well, do you get an exception? if not, wrap it into a begin/rescue and see whether it errors out?
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<apeiros>
you only show a part of your code, there's various reasons line 25-28 could raise
<differentSmoke>
Ok. This only works when I pass it the json field of one record, directly. So render json: MyModel.first.json_record works as I want, but if i render json: MyModel.first what I get is the whole row as json, with the json_record field being a large string.
<apeiros>
differentSmoke: errr… yes, of course
<apeiros>
what'd you expect?
<apeiros>
AR::Base#to_json will invoke to_json on all members.
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<apeiros>
write a proper as_json method in MyModel
<differentSmoke>
ok, so there is a to_json
<differentSmoke>
happening
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<differentSmoke>
well, thanks a lot, it's been dishearteningly clarifying but ultimately very helpful
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<apeiros>
o0
* apeiros
decides to stop reading after "thanks a lot". the rest is just confusing :-p
<apeiros>
yw
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<shredding>
apeiros: To give it a fresh start, what's wrong with my attitude=
<shredding>
Attitude towards what?
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<apeiros>
"this so easy in python, but impossible in ruby". what's the point of that claim? the only one I see is "come on, feel provoked! prove me wrong!"
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<apeiros>
and you know what? I'm not playing along.
<shredding>
apeiros: You really got that wrong.
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<shredding>
I'm coming from python and am learning ruby.
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<differentSmoke>
I hear you brother!
<apeiros>
shredding: so?
<shredding>
I'm coming as well from php and everyones provoking me all the time just because of that.
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<apeiros>
again: so? you didn't show me what the point of that claim is.
<shredding>
Why on earth should i come into ruby irc with a problem and provoke someone?
<apeiros>
probably because you somewhere learnt that it works.
<apeiros>
that you can push peoples buttons that way.
<shredding>
My point was: Hey guys, I'm new to ruby i know a bit of python i do it there this way, how to do it in ruby?
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<apeiros>
shredding: with *that*, I wouldn't have had a single issue.
<apeiros>
but that's not what you said.
<differentSmoke>
apeiros, I think you are reading an intention that wasn't there. I think it was an honest question like "maybe monkey patching is not the ruby way and you have to try something else?"
<shredding>
apeiros: yeah, maybe you read a bit to much between the lines.
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<cheenpo_>
can I provoke somebody about a mysql2 gem install question? (he asked, to ease the tension) ahahahaa
<apeiros>
differentSmoke: no.
<apeiros>
differentSmoke: shredding may not have intended to offend anybody.
<finges>
shredding: It's how you posed the question... when you say something is doable in python.. and impossible in ruby... it comes off confrontational.
<apeiros>
differentSmoke: but it totally is a "I push peoples buttons" move.
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<apeiros>
and I call him out for it
<shredding>
basically i did not even say that you can't monkey patch in ruby, as I already learned you can.
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<shredding>
I asked, because "require()" is a method call.
<shredding>
Whatever.
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<apeiros>
basically you said "i guess that's not possible in ruby"
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<apeiros>
anyway, I told you whats wrong with your attitude.
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<apeiros>
up to you to use that information, or toss it away and hope for somebody else to answer.
<apeiros>
idc
<shredding>
I really do not believe that something is wrond with my attitude.
<apeiros>
that was expected.
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<yfeldblum>
even if someone asks a question in a confrontational tone, it's still cool to answer in a way that will be seen by the questioner as kind
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<apeiros>
yfeldblum: nobody stops you.
<shevy>
shredding I think python's import functionality may be more advanced than ruby's load/require actions
<shredding>
I really did not mean to have a confrontational tone!
<shredding>
Sorry, if that came out wrong.
<shredding>
I'm not even natural english speaker.
<shevy>
you can see the chaos that happens in ruby land with the introduction of require_relative
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<apeiros>
yfeldblum: again, go ahead.
<apeiros>
nobody stopping you.
<shevy>
I like it
<shevy>
"Other people's code is often bad."
<shredding>
shevy: Basically, in python it's not really mocking what you're doing on imports, you just overwrite. That's why i'm unsure if it's even the right hook point to "mock" out the httparty gem
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<yfeldblum>
shredding, in ruby, you can replace a class with another class, or a method with another method; there are plenty of mocking frameworks and libraries around to use or to learn from
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<shredding>
yfeldblum: Ok, that's the functionality I'm looking for!
<yfeldblum>
shredding, however, modifying Kernel#require is not generally a good approach
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<shevy>
shredding you should be able to do something similar, in ruby you can always reopen and change existing classes and methods or just load/require a .rb file again (hmm... I think load() actually... one of them loads only once...)
<shevy>
shredding you can also keep an alias to the original method
<shredding>
shevy: So basically, how would one put a class that uses a gem? This overwriding of require does not feel like the way to go ...
<shevy>
"So I hereby declare the future deprecation of autoload. Ruby will keep autoload for a while, since 2.0 should keep compatibility to 1.9. But you don't expect it will survive further future, e.g. 3.0." - matz
<shevy>
shredding wait...
<shredding>
shevy: Ok, i haven't yet heared of autoload.
<shevy>
in general the easiest convention is to have "name_of_project" become require "name_of_project"
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<shevy>
ok, let's say you do: require 'bla', where bla is the name of the gem
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<shevy>
then usually, depending on how complex that gem project is, you may pull in lots of different .rb files
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<shevy>
in most examples, they will reside in a namespace
<shevy>
usually in that case, module Bla
<yfeldblum>
shevy, yeah, avoid autoload ...
<shevy>
except for apeiros who often uses class Bla ;-)
<shredding>
yfeldblum: interesting approach
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<shredding>
shevy: in my case it's just this require 'httparty'
<shevy>
shredding within your project, you could either then do include Bla, to make the namespace available in your module/class
<yfeldblum>
shredding, it's just a very simple example of what i said before: "in ruby, you can replace a class with another class"
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<shredding>
As all is depending on that
<shevy>
hmm I am not familiar with httparty
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<shevy>
let me install that gem
<shredding>
Okay, i think i can figure the details out.
<shredding>
shevy:
<shredding>
shevy: you don't have to
<shredding>
the code works fine.
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<shredding>
I just wonder how to test the code.
<dllama>
hi guys. noob question here if u dont mind. how would i go about treating attr_accessor as an array? Preferably w/o overriding active record initializer ?
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<shevy>
shredding hehe yeah, I often wonder how I should test myself
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<shredding>
I guess i can figure out the details, I just wondered what is the "ruby way to go"
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<virtualize|work>
dllama just assign it as an array
<virtualize|work>
attr_accessor :foo
<virtualize|work>
foo = [1,2,3]
<shredding>
So, if "replacing the class with your fake class" is the ruby way (which is what i did a lot in python btw), I'll try that.
<shevy>
ok... seems the main module there is module HTTParty
<shredding>
Thanks for your help.
<shredding>
shevy: Yes!
<shevy>
it has some spec test code in spec/ not sure if that is of any help
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<dllama>
virtualize|work, I did that, however, when trying to build a form and have :foo["bar"], it returned errors. So i thought i had setup the accessor wrong
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<shevy>
hmm is :foo["bar"] even valid syntax?
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<apeiros>
shevy: valid syntax yes, otherwise not so much
<dllama>
:foo[:bar]*
<apeiros>
it calls [] on :foo, with an argument "bar"
<dllama>
hmm, hopefully smilie didn't pass in
<shevy>
hehe
<shredding>
I'll just try to read into this exchange classes.
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<apeiros>
well, actually since 1.9, Symbol has String methods on it, so it might even work
<shredding>
My book "eloquent ruby" just arrives at "metaprogramming", so that may be of help :)
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<shevy>
cool... I did not even know symbols have []
<virtualize|work>
shevy: you might need to provide some code in order to diagnose it a little more
<apeiros>
shevy: it even works. it's the same as String#[] on Symbol
<apeiros>
basically Symbol#[] is like to_s[]
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<sparr>
is an empty array true or false?
<apeiros_>
true-ish
<apeiros_>
everything but nil/false is true-ish
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<xybre>
sparr: open irb and run `if Array.new then; puts "truthy"; else; puts "falsey"; end` and replace `Array.new` with whatever object you want.
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<xybre>
sparr: If you do that, you'll see apeiros is correct, only nil + false will return "falsey".
<eka>
anyone here knows dragonfly? I have an app that stores image urls… I would like to use DragonFly in rails for those, I have entry.image_url …. the file is not stored locally though
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<superscott[8]>
anybody have any generic guidelines on when to use include vs. extending a Ruby class?
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<eka>
superscott[8]: "is a" vs "has a"
<eka>
superscott[8]: a car "has a door" etc..
<eka>
superscott[8]: an apple "is a" fruit
<superscott[8]>
eka, ah, good example. i know what you're saying
<eka>
that's the simplest explanation
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<zets>
superscott: the other thing to take into account is that you can only have one immediate superclass, whereas you can have multiple mixins
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<zets>
I typically lean towards using mixins, less messy if the classes eventually diverge
<superscott[8]>
zets: true dat
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<eka>
zets: superscott[8]: imho mixing doesn't provide identity but a subset of services… (can't describe well sorry)
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<zets>
eka: yeah I know what you mean
<superscott[8]>
yeah, i'm with you
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<eka>
I like OOP more cause it can describe the problem I'm trying to solve… still trying to gasp on functional though
<eka>
"pure functional"
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<superscott[8]>
eka which one you working with currently?
<eka>
superscott[8]: none… just looking at elixir for fun… love ruby though
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<superscott[8]>
yeah word, i was checking that out a bit too. cause of the RR podcast?
<eka>
ah… no.. cause valim. got the book, also there is a video on peepcode
<superscott[8]>
ah word.
<eka>
got subscription to peepcode
<eka>
so
<superscott[8]>
you like it?
<eka>
but still, not much time
<eka>
if I like what?
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<superscott[8]>
peepcode
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<zets>
superscott: how is RR? I just heard about it a bit ago, been meaning to check it out
<eka>
superscott[8]: yes and no… little disappointed… my problem is, most of the ppl there says "if I would do it right I would do it other way" why they don't do it right for peepcode?
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<superscott[8]>
zets: majority of episodes are pretty fantastic.
<zets>
sweet :D
<superscott[8]>
eka: ah =/
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