<zendeavor>
tjbiddle: i fail to see your point, really. the index of the character shouldn't change, and reversing the string necessarily has the side effect of flipping your indices
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<Nilium>
This cat is just stretching herself all over my desk.
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<zendeavor>
tjbiddle: so, it's harder to reason about your code if the string in question is sufficiently long enough
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<Nilium>
And another desk.
<tjbiddle>
zendeavor: I'm sorry - Not thinking today apparently. Thanks!
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<zendeavor>
wait, you apologized?
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<zendeavor>
wot in da hel.
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<Nilium>
It's almost like tjbiddle isn't corrupted.
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<tjbiddle>
I'm sorry - I don't know what's wrong with me!
<zendeavor>
he did it again!
<tjbiddle>
*Damnit*! I did it again!
* zendeavor
grabs pitchfork
<Nilium>
I know how to fix this
* zendeavor
expects cattens
<Nilium>
Just libel the hell out of zendeavor
<Nilium>
And then post parrot pictures.
<zendeavor>
that's fair.
* tjbiddle
rallies the mob
<zendeavor>
in all honety, i pulled that answer out of my ass for tjbiddle
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<Wasp>
hi, how do i can compare to instances for equalness?
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<bnagy>
eq eql == or some other way
<Wasp>
so (mean as): a <same_instance> a => true
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<bnagy>
depending on what you mean
<bnagy>
you want to know if it's actually the _same_ instance?
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<Wasp>
nope: a=1; b=1; a.eql?(b) => true
<Wasp>
yes of cause
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<Wasp>
exampel above should return false
<bnagy>
ok well using 1 is a bad example because it's an immediate
<Wasp>
ah okay, but tried with array too
<bnagy>
there's only one 1
<havenwood>
neo
<bnagy>
try looking at the id
<r0bglees0n>
the weird thing for me is that when they released a bunch of security patches it supposedly impacted performance in a few places, but there was never another patch release
<Wasp>
tried a.__id__ but method doesnt exist
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<Nilium>
I think joining this channel won't help him any. If you don't understand the problem, we can't either, really.
<Nilium>
Well, we can't understand it second-hand, anyway.
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<Nilium>
And from the sound of it, neither of you knows what you're trying to do yet, so you'll likely want to spend more time researching the problem.
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<Nilium>
That's my assumption, but there are some amazingly stupid people out there.
<Nilium>
I'm one of them, though thankfully not when it comes to that particular thing
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<r0bglees0n>
Nilium: i think a lot of ruby libraries out there that might be good sit unknown or unused
<r0bglees0n>
its hard to get users
<havenwood>
it really is, unless you're 'internet famous'!
<Nilium>
I just try not to care about whether people use my gems because the whole ego thing can drive me insane.
<havenwood>
Nilium: Ego aside, Issue tickets and Pull Requests come with users! :)
<r0bglees0n>
yeah
<r0bglees0n>
feedback of any kind is great
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<Nilium>
I probably won't be getting much of that
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<Nilium>
Except "why u no use ruby-ffi" from bnagy
<bnagy>
we discussed that
<Nilium>
Indeed.
<bnagy>
you said 'bizarre NIH lol I don't even know' and I accepted it and moved on
<bnagy>
;)
<r0bglees0n>
instead of C?
<Nilium>
You ignored the part about ruby-ffi being large.
<Nilium>
Unnecessarily large, even.
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<Nilium>
r0bglees0n: Instead of Fiddle.
<r0bglees0n>
ah
<r0bglees0n>
Fiddle is stdlib
<Nilium>
Reasoning being that Fiddle already works and is part of the stdlib.
<r0bglees0n>
why not :)
<Nilium>
I assume it's because Fiddle doesn't play particularly nicely with Windows from what I've heard and not seen and because ruby-ffi is now internet famous.
<r0bglees0n>
yeah I'd use Fiddle, and FFI hasn't had the best history of working across different ruby runtimes.
<r0bglees0n>
i think its better now
<r0bglees0n>
rubinius just uses the gem
<r0bglees0n>
but i dont know if the jruby API is in sync
<bnagy>
it is
<bnagy>
well, all my FFI code works on both
<bnagy>
mri / jruby windows 32 / 64
<Nilium>
I use enough C extensions that jruby just doesn't work for me anyway, so it's not a huge issue.
<r0bglees0n>
havent tried jruby that much but there was a few gaps between rubinius's implementation & the MRI C gem.
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<r0bglees0n>
for a while.
<bnagy>
how does rbx handle cexts?
<r0bglees0n>
yep
<r0bglees0n>
it has a C extension API copied from MRI
<bnagy>
^^how
<r0bglees0n>
oh sorry
<r0bglees0n>
it implements the C API on top of their C++ code
<bnagy>
I would have thought the threading would be an issue
<r0bglees0n>
(MRI C API)
<r0bglees0n>
yeah, C API has locks around it
<havenwood>
bnagy: They just stopped bothering with thread safe. Put it on C-ext authors.
<bnagy>
ok
<havenwood>
r0bglees0n: I thought they actually removed locks a bit back.
<Nilium>
I like that approach to thread safety.
<r0bglees0n>
i dont think so
<r0bglees0n>
but i might be wrong
<bnagy>
I think it's pretty hard for a cext author to know enough about the runtime
<r0bglees0n>
if rubinius can do that why couldnt MRI, assuming its all thread safe now?
<bnagy>
but I am just handwaving
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<r0bglees0n>
thats one of the concerns for removing the GIL in cruby
<bnagy>
locking down the c api sounds much more doable
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<r0bglees0n>
i can see why they'd want to remove the lock
<r0bglees0n>
anything that calls into C is locked, so for something like the pg driver in the context of a puma web server that sucks so much
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<havenwood>
i *swear* rbx doesn't lock c-ext lib calls but i can't find google proof
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<r0bglees0n>
jruby has the edge there
<r0bglees0n>
it has java drivers to talk to the database
<r0bglees0n>
or do the things C exts do in MRI
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<havenwood>
yeah, so they just lock at the boundary - but presume the C-ext is thread safe
<havenwood>
"Since we've disabled the global lock around the the C extensions around the C API, we haven't had major issues."
<havenwood>
hrm
<r0bglees0n>
so what lock is that?
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<havenwood>
I kinda like just bug ticketing non thread safe libs
<havenwood>
"Then that pushes that idea of thread-safety right up to the boundary of the C extension. So if the C extension itself is operating with its own native libraries, or however they implement stuff in a way that's not thread-safe, we hope to fix that."
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<havenwood>
guess it really was spurred by performance problems
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<havenwood>
but i dunno any lock details at all
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<r0bglees0n>
it seems like a global lock in a threaded web server like puma would be a disaster
<r0bglees0n>
well, not a disaster
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<r0bglees0n>
but you wouldn't have parallel threads anytime you touched the DB.
<havenwood>
a puma in shackles
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<Nilium>
Not really a good way to keep a puma since that just leads to spontaneous puma combustion.
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<iliketurtles>
what would be a concise approach to checking several strings to see which one string contains the most number of repeated blocks of N bytes? basically i'd want to parse each string in N byte blocks, and see if there are any repeats, and if so count them. then, out of all strings checked, return the one with the most number of repeated blocks.
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<Tobarja>
so i'm trying my hand at the hosted ruby warrior at: https://www.bloc.io/ruby-warrior one of the restrictions is you're only allowed to call one bang method. Is there a concept I'm missing that keeps it from turning into a gigantic set of nested if's?
<bnagy>
iliketurtles: just count them, then sort by count?
<iliketurtles>
bnagy: what do you mean by "count them"? i don't know what the repeating block would consist of, so i'd need to check for repeats
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<bnagy>
sure
<bnagy>
like each_slice(n) and thenjust group_by and count
<bnagy>
and I don't think your join there will ever exit, like it's joining an infinite loop
<bnagy>
sdegutis: pretty much what you already have
<sdegutis>
oh
<sdegutis>
yay
<sdegutis>
bnagy: well once this ruby script is rounded out more, messages might come in a weird order.
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<sdegutis>
so i actually have to dig through it to find the right message
<bnagy>
will: you're not using the result from each
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<bnagy>
sdegutis: do that in your handler
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<sdegutis>
but a queue can only have messages popped out, no?
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<bnagy>
just have a reader thread that's a message pump, and the reorder etc somewhere else
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<sdegutis>
hmm i see
<will>
bnagy: how do I go about using the result for each? I am really new to programming Ruby and was just experimenting a little further than book took it
<r0bglees0n>
will: your code has a lot of problems, you iterate an array and don't use any of the elements, you assign a block local and never use it, 'b' is never assigned.
<bnagy>
will: something like people = array_name.map {|name| Person.new name}
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<will>
bnagy: anyway you can walk me through that statement? sry...
<bnagy>
map transforms a collection, element by element
<bnagy>
so every element in array_name is used to pass as an arg to Person.new
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<will>
so when I do: puts john.name it says undefined
<will>
after that
<bnagy>
well yeah, john is a local variable that hasn't been defined
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<will>
how do i extend the scope out of the code block and be able to manipulate the Person object
<iliketurtles>
bnagy: so, to read in numerous strings, would this approach seem good? strings.max_by { |string| string.chars.each_slice(16).group_by {|e| e}.values.max }
<bnagy>
there is a Person instance in position 0 of that resulting array, though whose name is the string "john"
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<will>
oh
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<will>
so I could set this output equal to an array
<bnagy>
iliketurtles: it looks like readable code, but I think your handling of the grouped data isn't right
<iliketurtles>
bnagy: how so?
<will>
and then access the person object by referencing a position in array
<bnagy>
iliketurtles: try it and see :D
<bnagy>
or read scrollback again
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<will>
OH MAN
<r0bglees0n>
lol
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<will>
bnagy: r0bglees0: THANKS!
<will>
that is awesome
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<will>
ill continue experimenting with Ruby! thanks for the help. for real!
<bnagy>
\/\/ westside 4 lyf yo fo realz
<will>
lol
<bnagy>
will: np
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<iliketurtles>
bnagy: handling of the grouped data? i want to output the string that has the most repeats in it
<bnagy>
yeah, I don't think your code does that
<bnagy>
because it's different from the example code above
<bnagy>
in an important way
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<iliketurtles>
bnagy: your example code? or someone elses'
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<bnagy>
eg mine
<iliketurtles>
bnagy: yours has .map(&:size)
<bnagy>
yeah
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<r0bglees0n>
you can write that that as .max { |x| x.size }
<r0bglees0n>
-that
<bnagy>
iliketurtles: if you just call max on values at that point, you're gonna get the default sort
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<bnagy>
which, for an array of arrays of bytes, is not going to be what you want
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<iliketurtles>
bnagy: how does the &:size fix that
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<sdegutis>
i figured out what was slowing down my program that was talking over TCP, kind of...
<sdegutis>
after reading from the socket, if i dont print something to stdout on the background thread, the main thread chokes and slows down dramatically
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<sdegutis>
granted it could be because the design of #get_message is idiotic.
<sevenseacat>
+1 to that
<sdegutis>
but i dont have a better solution for turning an async response into a synchronous method-return
<sdegutis>
ideas are very welcome
<bnagy>
oh.. I would use a Queue not an array if I were you
<bnagy>
and I dunno about second guessing your protocol with gets then readpartial
<bnagy>
queues are better for shring between threads cause they're designed to be threadsafe
<sdegutis>
oh.
<sdegutis>
didnt know, thanks
<bnagy>
even though I can't see any reason this design is inherently going to be wrong
<sdegutis>
but ill still have to pop them off onto the main thread so i can examine them later to match up responses to requests
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<bnagy>
well you can still do that
<bnagy>
in main you send then incoming.pop <-- blocking
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<bnagy>
if you want to async _everything_ then seriously, don't
<bnagy>
just use eventmachine or something
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<bnagy>
but assuming you're insane you can just store sent reqs in a hash by whatever you use for a unique id ( whatever matches responses to requests ) and then do a lookup in your response handler
<sdegutis>
oh nice, thanks bnagy
<sdegutis>
good idea
<sdegutis>
btw its neat how i can just swap out [] with Queue.new and it all works
<bnagy>
at which point imho it's probably better to just run a select loop
<sdegutis>
nothing else had to change
<bnagy>
but I am biased
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<sdegutis>
biased how?
<bnagy>
yeah Queue also gives you a blocking pop
<bnagy>
which is great, you don't have to spin on empty? checks on your array
<bnagy>
well I don't think threaded socket handlers in ruby are a sustainable pattern
<bnagy>
for sanity, mainly
<sdegutis>
bnagy: btw that fixed it entirely
<sdegutis>
its now lightning fast again
<sdegutis>
instead of 10 seconds for 10 roundtrips
<sdegutis>
woot
<sdegutis>
thanks :)
<bnagy>
np
<sdegutis>
i should have done it earlier but i was being foolish
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<sdegutis>
sorry about that
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<sdegutis>
i guess i need another queue, but one that waits for data matching specific criteria
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<sdegutis>
or something
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<bnagy>
what the goal?
<bnagy>
full async, or just efficient?
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<sdegutis>
well the request/response should appear sync but actually be async (over tcp), however there's also a callback system
<sdegutis>
so you can send 'register' msgs and receive 'callback' msgs
<bnagy>
use eventmachine
<bnagy>
:)
<bnagy>
or celluloid
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<sdegutis>
well, i also want to bundle this with my app, in a reasonably small way
<bnagy>
buuuut having said that
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<sdegutis>
ive already reinvented half the wheel so far, i think im pretty close
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<bnagy>
when you define a message to send, you can create a callback then and there, as a Proc
<bnagy>
then put that in a callback hash by id or whatever
<bnagy>
in your receive handler, get a message, look up the response callback by id and just fire it
<bnagy>
the callback is a closure, so it has access to whatever locals it was using when you defined it
<sdegutis>
hmm
<bnagy>
this is pretty much the guts of EM, btw. The rest is just a big ass select()
<sdegutis>
i remember liking EM back when i first tried ruby
<sdegutis>
but maybe that was just my knee-jerk response after having just been tortured by python's "twisted" lib
<bnagy>
I would use celluloid for new work imho
<sdegutis>
i looked at cell-io, it looked like it did too much and not exactly what i want either
<bnagy>
I have more or less a not-invented-here workalike of celluloid, it's a good model
<bnagy>
you can just use it for the actors, you don't have to use it for the comms
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<sdegutis>
hmm
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<bnagy>
and there's nio4r I think
<bnagy>
whatever it's called
<bnagy>
but writing your own eventy callbacky framework from scratch is un-fun
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<sdegutis>
on a related note, can you call a method on the main thread from the background thread?
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<bnagy>
sure
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<bnagy>
just watch out for threadsafety, as always
<bnagy>
there aren't really 'methods' on the main thread
<bnagy>
methods are on objects
<sdegutis>
ah, i just figured out a minimal solution to my problem: i create a hash of request-id => queue, and the pretend-sync method pops from the proper one and the async background read-thread pushes to the proper one, and the magic is all done via ruby Hash lookups by id
<bnagy>
so if you're defining stuff in toplevel, which is more or less like in Object, that's different to the thread that's running that method
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<sdegutis>
bnagy: i meant call a method in such a way that it executes on the main thread
<bnagy>
uh that doesn't make sense to me
<sdegutis>
bnagy: in objc i have something like do_function_on(main_thread, ->{ some_random_code() })
<sdegutis>
but i think conceptually its a lot simpler than my original plan
<bnagy>
why are you popping in your send?
<sdegutis>
bnagy: because the send waits for a response
<sdegutis>
to pretend to be synchronous
<bnagy>
try this - make one send_q, one recv_q, one sender thread that _just_ pops send_q and sends, ditto recv
<sdegutis>
but it waits for a response with a matching id
<bnagy>
then a recv_handler that pops recv_q and handles
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<bnagy>
don't have one queue per message, that's ... unusual
<sdegutis>
it has both features i need: blocking pop, and safely push from background read-thread to foreground
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<goleldar>
hello
<sdegutis>
plus the hash trick reduces *tons* of otherwise complexity
<sdegutis>
*tons*
<sdegutis>
hi goleldar
<bnagy>
sdegutis: you can still have your hash, just reference it in recv_handler
<bnagy>
probably via a mutex, sadly, in that case
<goleldar>
could someone please look at this. I am trying to use each_with_object in place of inject to make it cleaner but it does not pass the test when I do
<sdegutis>
bnagy: this solution doesnt need a mutex btw
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<sdegutis>
well maybe it does. i havent solved the deadlock yet
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<bnagy>
goleldar: this is a perfect use for inject though
* sdegutis
prefers the name #reduce
<bnagy>
sdegutis: ok, I mean I don't want to have a fight, I'm just giving you advice, feel free to ignore it
<goleldar>
bnagy: I am still learning best practices so that is good to hear
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<sdegutis>
well maybe you're right
<goleldar>
bnagy: why do you say that inject would be better here than each_with_object?
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<sdegutis>
FP
<bnagy>
cause each_with_object(0) is more or less the core use for inject
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<goleldar>
I was trying to understand why the tests dont pass with each_with_object.. is there something that I am missing to know without testing that it would not work?
<bnagy>
goleldar: I would expect a hamming to look like string1.chars.zip(string2.chars).inject(0) {|hamming,(a,b)| hamming += 1 unless a==b}
<bnagy>
or something
<bnagy>
goleldar: yeah with each_with_object, what's happening to 0?
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<Nilium>
Was about to point that part out.
<bnagy>
it's an accumulator, right? But where is it stored between iterations of that block?
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<goleldar>
each_with_object returns 0 everytime
<Nilium>
It'd work if the value was mutable, but it's not.
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<Nilium>
each_with_object returns the object you gave it.
<goleldar>
bnagy: I have never used the zip method .. looks interesting .. reading about it now
<Nilium>
So here's a question for you, goleldar, what's 0 += 1?
<bnagy>
goleldar: it's not sound for strings of unequal length
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<bnagy>
it was just off the top of my head
<goleldar>
ok
<Nilium>
I also can't decide if your name is a power rangers reference gone awry or not
<goleldar>
:)
<goleldar>
I get an error on that one 0 += 1
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<Nilium>
And what is differences_count?
<Nilium>
I mean, we've already established that 0 isn't mutable.
<goleldar>
count of the differences between the two strands ignoring extra nucleotides above the maximum common length
<Nilium>
That's not what I asked. What is differences_count? The answer is 0. You gave 0 to each_with_object, so it's 0.
<bnagy>
oh in that case zip works fine :P
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<Nilium>
It's always going to be 0.
<goleldar>
oh ya
<goleldar>
so there is not really a way to make this work with each_with_object?
<Nilium>
There isn't.
<Nilium>
Use inject.
<goleldar>
ok
<bnagy>
sure
<bnagy>
just have your object be mutable
<Nilium>
bnagy: Let's not go down horror street tonight. >_>
<bnagy>
but it's not clean
<goleldar>
:)
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<bnagy>
a=0 blah.each_with_object(a) would work
<bnagy>
etc
<Nilium>
No, it wouldn't.
<bnagy>
but in that case so would just each
<goleldar>
when would each_with_object be prefable over inject?
<bnagy>
no, it wouldn't
<bnagy>
a=[0]
<goleldar>
is there a general principle?
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<Nilium>
That works.
<Nilium>
Again, though, horror street.
<bnagy>
yeah external a and just each would work
<Nilium>
goleldar: When the object is mutable or when the object doesn't need to change.
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<Nilium>
Or if it's just a base and doesn't need to change between iterations.
<bnagy>
goleldar: in general, avoid them both
<bnagy>
this is almost literally the only use I like for inject
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<bnagy>
and 99% of injects in the field should be rewritten with each_with_object
<goleldar>
ahh ok..
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<bnagy>
and 99% of those should be rewritten with each
<Nilium>
Mostly because people are stupid and really like doing inject([]) or inject({})
<bnagy>
^^
<goleldar>
so with counts inject is preferable
<Nilium>
Which I'm guilty of doing plenty.
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<bnagy>
goleldar: imho, reduce ( alias for inject ) is a better name
<bnagy>
and if people always called it that they might use it right more often
<bnagy>
it reduces a collection to a single value
<bnagy>
in this case, it's fine, it reduces an collection of charachter pairs to a score
<bnagy>
*a
<goleldar>
that makes sense
<goleldar>
good way to remember proper use
<Nilium>
That and more people probably know map and reduce than they do collect and inject.
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<sdegutis>
ooooh
<sdegutis>
now i see why my plan was dumb
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<sdegutis>
no wait, nvm
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<wiiw>
hello , I need change the ActiveRecord's max pool size , default is 5
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<bnagy>
wiiw: #rubyonrails
<wiiw>
I did not use rails , just use ActiveRecord only , so config/database.yml did not work
<bnagy>
hrm. ok, but I still think that's your best bet
<wiiw>
bnagy: I'll try that channel
<bnagy>
cause almost nobody uses AR except railsies afaik
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<sevenseacat>
we're too darn cool.
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<wiiw>
bnagy: yes , I use ActiveRecord to conn with mssql , and tiny_tds allways say "Attempt to initiate a new Adaptive Server operation with results pending"
<bnagy>
*shrug*
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<bnagy>
I hate 2/3 of those things and don't know what the other one is
<sevenseacat>
only tds i know is freetds and i hate that with the fire of a thousand suns
<wiiw>
I was from vb.net to ruby
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<sdegutis>
is there a version of IO#gets that doesn't timeout?
<sdegutis>
or maybe some other method that lets me read until a given delimiter
<bnagy>
sdegutis: you can use Socket methods, there's non blocking stuff in there
<bnagy>
or just read(1)
<bnagy>
:P
<Xeago>
sdegutis: I'd say it depends on your mode of operation
<Xeago>
depending on the flexibility you require, you might have to read per character
<sdegutis>
ive been using #gets because i just want to consume all data until i see a newline
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<sdegutis>
thanks
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<bnagy>
you could actually run it all of one queue
<sdegutis>
bnagy: if two different callbacks get triggered at the same time, they both might try to make a send at the same time. so they might receive responses in a different order, right?
<sdegutis>
hmm
<sdegutis>
bnagy: then i dont get the free hash/pop combined behavior
<bnagy>
and just have a sync method that blocks on a callback, but look whatever
<sdegutis>
hmm
<bnagy>
well the hash was supposed to be id => callback
<bnagy>
not queue => callback
<bnagy>
the queue is just a pipe
<sdegutis>
that only works for callbacks, not sync-responses
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<bnagy>
well a sync response can effectively just wait on its own callback :)
<bnagy>
but two queues would be clearer
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<sdegutis>
hmm
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<sdegutis>
bnagy: i think i found an example: (1) client makes request to server for an immediate response, (2) server sends callback triggered by something else, (3) server sends response to client's request
<sdegutis>
bnagy: i dont see how that doesnt break the sync-queue idea you're talking about
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<bnagy>
sync send would just wait on a sync queue
<bnagy>
recv_handler can just pop incoming messages, look up ids in a callback table, fire the callback, or if there's none drop it to sync queue
<keyvan>
yeah i just picked osmething that wasn't too much
<keyvan>
sevenseacat: ya ur a ruby developer
<keyvan>
i just like the idea behind bountysource and wonder how to drive kids (not experts at $200/hr like you guys) towards working on easy projects... but clearly kids dont hang around these parts looking for opportunities ... but thats what i was envisoining i think
<Nilium>
I'm not an expert and I hate the title.
<keyvan>
to work on CI servers lol
<Nilium>
I'm an unemployed hobbyist programmer with an English degree who open sources everything he does.
<sevenseacat>
i'm no expert either
<Nilium>
The problem is that $35 is not an opportunity, it's less than minimum wage considering the work you're asking.
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<keyvan>
well i have to compare it against my own salary. i could probably do a pretty good job in an hour. i make about $35 an hour, so $35 seemed cool
<Nilium>
So don't try to act like you're above people by saying you're putting an opportunity out there -- you're not. You're basically just asking someone to do a difficult job for the cost of mowing your lawn for a couple days.
<sevenseacat>
if its an open source project, either people a) WANT to work on it or b) are getting paid nicely to work on it
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<bnagy>
and also this is a programming channel not #hireamexican
<Nilium>
Just be frank, say "hey, I've got $35 to put down on something I'm interested in seeing fixed if anyone's up for it" and don't be a prat like you just were.
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<bnagy>
there are places for exploiting low-wage programmers, go there
<keyvan>
Nilium: it's not difficult. chill out and fuck you very much in the process you unappreciative cunt leech
<keyvan>
eerr
<keyvan>
sorry
<keyvan>
that was rude
<keyvan>
i apologize
<sevenseacat>
yeah it kinda was
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* Nilium
puts "unappreciative cunt leech" in the book for future use
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<Nilium>
keyvan: So are you the sort that has to say "Now I'm not racist, but" a lot?
<sevenseacat>
anyways its now my beer time. hooray.
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<Nilium>
No beer time for another 15-ish hours for me.
<keyvan>
Nilium: no, i try to stay away from negative stuff; but still be truthful. when i cross the line it's because i feel hurt personally. if you're not hurting myself or others i'm fine with you kinda guy
<Nilium>
And then the microbrew tasting begins!
<keyvan>
i should be asleep but whatever.
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<Nilium>
keyvan: Well, for what it's worth, I wasn't trying to insult you, I was trying to tell you to not act high and mighty because of $35.
<Nilium>
Because you totally did that.
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<keyvan>
well thanks for pointing out to me that i was being egotistical in my speech. if you are specific about what parts, and can look past the verbal injuries i attempted, all is well
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<sdegutis>
is there a built-in way to traverse an "object tree", regardless of whether its an array, hash, object, string, whatever?
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<bnagy>
no
<sdegutis>
aw
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<sdegutis>
ok, special-casing it is then
<bnagy>
you could write a recursive each possibly
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<Nilium>
You could probably do something horrible by checking if something responds to each and then if it doesn't by traversing its ivars.
<bnagy>
but ruby has a kind of small stack by default so be careful with DFS recursion
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<bnagy>
right beer
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<keyvan>
Nilium: that was an amazing statement -- i feelso much more worse about the bad things i said publicly here at you. so rude and unacceptable for a 24 year old. what a child i acted . and yes this $35 thing is silly. there's definitely better ways to get the right word out to the right people. thank you
<Nilium>
Also, forgive and forget and all that junk.
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<Nilium>
You don't know me, I don't know you, no point getting bent out of shape one way or the other.
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<keyvan>
:) so im gonna solve my own issue probably and just take the 35 bucks myself. carrot and the stick, saving through code rewards to my own open source projects.
<keyvan>
should be fun
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<keyvan>
yeah its all good. goodnight
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<sdegutis>
what kind of metaprogramming would you use to simplify defining a bunch of methods like this?
<sdegutis>
def foo_bar(*args); do_something('foo_bar', *args); end
<sdegutis>
the only thing known about it is its name, but all args get passed along exactly as-is
<sdegutis>
and not method_missing, since that doesnt play nicely with #method
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<sdegutis>
oh yes, define_instance_method i think
<hanmac>
sdegutis: if you want to work method_missing with method you need respond_to_missing?
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<sdegutis>
ok
<sdegutis>
thx
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<sdegutis>
hanmac: do you prefer that over define_method ?
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<hanmac>
sdegutis: it depends, if it needs to be very dynamic (there old methods can disapear) it may better
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<sdegutis>
in this case its very static
<sdegutis>
im porting a stable TCP api to Ruby classes
<sdegutis>
so its known well-ahead of time
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<sdegutis>
what's that trick people have been doing, to define class methods outside of a class and include it with them or extend it with them or something?
<Nilium>
Eh?
<ccooke>
sdegutis: do you mean modules?
<Nilium>
You mean jamming them in a module and then extending the class with said module?
<sdegutis>
ah yes. they define a ClassMethods module, and extend the class with that
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<sdegutis>
ive seen that a lot
<sdegutis>
whats the benefit of it?
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<Nilium>
I only use it for metaprogramming things.
<Nilium>
Otherwise, I think it's silly.
<ccooke>
sdegutis: Well, it allows you to make class method modules. Which is quite useful, if you need it.
<ccooke>
really, if you can't think of a need for it, don't use it :-)
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<sdegutis>
th
<sdegutis>
x
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<bricker`LA>
When using the %r syntax for declaring a regular expression, how do you pass flags like i or g to it?
<Veejay>
Is there a ruby method that given an array with duplicates produces a Hash where the keys are the elements and the values are the number of occurrences for each element?
<Veejay>
I can easily achive that with {}.tap {|h| something on the array} but I was wondering
<ccooke>
Veejay: each_with_object({}) and a relevant block? ;-)
<mikecmpbll>
i want to store some code and then evaluate that code in a method, and have it access the local variables to that method.
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<heftig>
mikecmpbll: variables are bound lexically
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<heftig>
that means the "x" up there is actually a method call on self
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<mikecmpbll>
heftig: yeah, i fully understand why my example doesn't work, and it makes perfect sense
<mikecmpbll>
heftig: but I don't know how to get around it
<heftig>
use @x
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<heftig>
or make x a parameter of the lambda
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<mikecmpbll>
heftig: ah, now we're talking, hold on.
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<sdegutis>
why is it that i dont see my no-method errors until after i interrupt thread.join?
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<Fisix_AIX>
Hello, If I am using a gem and it has its own methods what are the name of these methods?
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<MrZYX>
there's no generic answer to that, run gem server
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<Fisix_AIX>
ok, let me be more specific, I am using a gem and I have a class instance and I would like to know what methods are available specific to that instance excluding generic methods?
<MrZYX>
read the gems docs
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<hoelzro>
or inspect the object
<Fisix_AIX>
So there is no method that will display that?
<shevy>
count seems so, at least I get no response
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<shevy>
anyone of you guys doing ruby + ncurses ?
<count>
where / how / to whom do I report this, or where can I verify it as known?
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<count>
shevy: cheers.
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<count>
shevy: ncurses is a bitc^Wfemale dog, but haven't used it with ruby. maybe have a look at termbox
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<_tockitj>
can someone recommend good ruby gallery software?
<_tockitj>
preferably opensource (:
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<hanmac>
_tockitj, like for a website? with rails?
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<_tockitj>
hanmac, anything
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<_tockitj>
just to upload and preview/select photos
<_tockitj>
way to organize them in albums (maybe auto-resize on upload) - and that is it
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<hanmac>
if you want to do it with an server you may need a website for that … i could image it with an RestClient/System Application but this would be more complicated
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<hanmac>
_tockitj you can try to ask at #rubyonrails … they may have more infomaition about "gallery software"
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<_tockitj>
yes - I was thinking about a webapp
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<OODavo>
Sudden random feature suggestion out of nowhere: Object#extend should be able to take a block, which will be treated as though it were passed into Module.new before being passed to Object#extend.
<count>
go file a ticket
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<hanmac>
OODavo, it makes a difference when you use anonymous Modules or "Named" ones
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<lupine>
OODavo, you can write a gem that permits that ;)
<tj_>
hi
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<OODavo>
hanmac: I'm frankly not too sure of how named versus anonymous modules actually work. Mind elaborating, or should I just go look that up?
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<lectrick>
if "e" is the object instance, I think I can do class << e; remove_method :methodname; end
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<realDAB>
lectrick: i'm getting an error when i do that (and not the right error)
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<lectrick>
realDAB: yeah that may work too
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<lectrick>
realDAB: yeah I just want to remove methods that are only defined on the class whose instance I have
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<shevy>
File.extname "movie.avi" # => ".avi"
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<shevy>
are there better ways to determine the file type of a given file?
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<Xeago>
shevy: filetype is a dubious thing
<Xeago>
and extensions only imply a filetype
<mnewton>
I want to make a script that installs a few packages in linux, how do i check if a user has sudo access?
<terrellt>
We used a plugin for it...give me a minute and I'll find it. I wanna say it was filemagic?
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<kryl>
hi, when I try to install a gem, how to install it in a default directory for the whole systeme and not only for the actual user ~/.gem ?
<terrellt>
Yeah.
<terrellt>
shevy: Check out ruby-filemagic
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<shevy>
terrellt ok going to check, thanks
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<shevy>
mnewton in what file are the sudoers kept?
<vasilakisFiL>
hey guys I installed jruby but it seems much slower.. have I done smth wrong ?
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<shevy>
mnemon, also check ENV['USER'] and the require 'etc' module, including Process.uid and Process.euid ... or .eid, I forgot the name, look at the docu
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<Xeago>
vasilakisFiL: how do you check it?
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<terrellt>
mnewton: Or look into puppet..
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<cr3>
msg nickserv identify __cr3 passworD
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<vasilakisFiL>
Xeago for instance some tests that would take 3sec with the default ruby implementation, now take about 1 minute
<terrellt>
Ahem.
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<terrellt>
Really, dude? A capital D was the best you had?
<shevy>
hehe
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<shevy>
I am even too lazy to come to remember my old password
<shevy>
for IRC
<terrellt>
vasilakisFiL: The JVM takes a -much- longer time to boot up, that's probably what you're seeing.
<shevy>
that's why I am no longer on #ruby-lang either :(
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* terrellt
wanders away.
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<vasilakisFiL>
jruby is the only implementation that fully support concurrent threads?
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<wmoxam>
vasilakisFiL: Rubinius
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<vasilakisFiL>
ok uninstalling jruby then
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<mjc_>
rubinius is pretty good, too, and its devs are super nice and happy to help
<mjc_>
rbx is also slower to boot up than plain ruby though
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<mjc_>
vasilakisFiL: I would suggest something like spring or zeus which pre-loads a copy of your app, neither supports jruby though AFAIK
<mjc_>
for testing
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<fryguy>
vasilakisFiL: it's generally impossible because of existing ecosystem, and how ingrained the GIL is into the runtime
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<mjc_>
would be incredibly difficult to dump the GIL in MRI
<vasilakisFiL>
aha
<fryguy>
python has a similar problem
<fryguy>
similar reasons are also why we are stuck with a naive garbage collector
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<fryguy>
although it looks like some smart things are slated for 2.1 to at least get a generational GC
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<lectrick>
What is the proper way to test module methods? Object.new.extend the module and test it in there?
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<heftig>
mjc_: rubinius isn't that much larger than ruby now, if you don't include LLVM
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<Diranged>
I'm having a problem with gems.rubyforge.org this morning.. Is that no longer the best remote source to use in my gemrc?
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<brisbin>
lectrick: depends. Class.new; incude Module; end works. sometimes i'll make a shared example and use that in the specs for any classes which include the module, never testing the module outside the objects that use it
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<robert_>
shevy: how's it going today? :D
<lectrick>
brisbin: ok
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<mjc_>
heftig: I'm not sure I understand how that's relevant to what I was saying
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<heftig>
mjc_: eh, just an aside
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<sanav>
hello i'm newbie .I want to learn working of ruby with cgi-bin and also want to learn about bot .Please tell me is their any way to test/learn on local computer with web-host ? Thanks
<whitenoise>
sanav: you would need to setup nginx, apache, or something similar locally, configure it to render CGI and then code in Ruby. It's just as possible as running anything else locally. But I do agree with kurtisnelson that you should probably use a framework of some sort...will make your life loads easier.
<whitenoise>
no reason to use cgi anymore
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<sanav>
whitenoise: ok
<whitenoise>
Sinatra is an excellent microframework in Ruby, and then Rails is the standard full framework.
<Dysruption>
i have a .rb that uses activerecord, mysql2, and smarter_csv (it's not a rails app) and I need to package it for use on windows (i'm deving on a mac), what's the easiest way to do so?
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<sanav>
whitenoise: thanks ! i think i should go with sinatra
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<kurtisnelson>
Dysruption: a linux VM :p
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<Dysruption>
kurtisnelson: i was afraid I would get an answer like that :/
<whitenoise>
Dysruption: as cumbersome as it is....perhaps cygwin
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<kurtisnelson>
but probably put a Gemfile in there and package it as a zip?
<whitenoise>
cygwin would be way better than a VM
<Dysruption>
whitenoise: using cygwin in what way?
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<Dysruption>
kurtisnelson: the problem is that I can't get activerecord or mysql2 gems to run on windows
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<Dysruption>
kurtisnelson: without messing with version types and doing too many messy things
<kurtisnelson>
then yeah you probably need to put it in some form of a posix environent
<kurtisnelson>
cygwin, vagrant, or a full VM
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<Woodsman>
hey - i'm kind of a beginner so forgive this possibly simple question. I've got a gemfile with the httparty gem, but when I run the example code httparty has on their github repo, i am told that "response = HTTParty.get(... " gives an uninitialized constant error. Anyone know what sort of simple thing i've overlooked?
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<brisbin>
Woodsman: are you running the example code with bundle exec?
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<Woodsman>
i've done bundle install and know the gem is on there
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<kurtisnelson>
how about the require line?
<brisbin>
that didn't answer my question
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<Woodsman>
i am not running the code with bundle exec
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<Woodsman>
i will do that
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<brisbin>
you also do still need the require line, if you don't have that
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<jaclinuxhelp>
i need to know why a systemd unit to start a rake task is failing. any way to get some logging from the command "/usr/bin/bundle exec rake sidekiq:start" so that output reachs systemd console output?
<Woodsman>
i would just require 'httparty' , correct?
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<brisbin>
jaclinuxhelp: systemctl status shows nothing? it should show stderr by default
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<zachrab>
can i use attr_accessor with class variables?
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<jaclinuxhelp>
brisbin, it shows nothing at all
<hanmac>
zachrab: nope, but you can use it with "class instance variables"
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<Grieg>
Hello helpful people. I need your help yet once again :D This http://pastie.org/private/jjoci77ztp4eteuz92jza would work in C or Pascal but it doesn't work in Ruby. How do i solve this??
<Grieg>
oh god. its a stupid mistake..... thank you dude
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<heftig>
hanmac: oh, splat magic.
<Crawford>
bnagy: Remember that ruby lib I was asking about refactoring?
<Grieg>
i mean heftig solved my problem
<hanmac>
heftig 2.1 is more cool because you get double-splat magic ;D
<heftig>
hm?
<shevy>
hanmac your code always scares me
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<hanmac>
heftig: *obj turns it into an array, **obj turns it into an Hash (important for key arguments)
<heftig>
hrm
<aedorn>
I'm waiting for ***obj which turns it into a temporal anomaly.
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<shevy>
lol
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<shevy>
and what will ****obj do?
<heftig>
divide by zero
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<MrZYX>
successfully
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<hanmac>
shevy it runs your linux in windows mode ;P
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<Grieg>
Thank you all. bb )
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<sdegutis>
is there such a thing as a queue that acts as a hash instead of an array, so that you can pop off an item with a certain key, and add items at keys?
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<MrZYX>
you mean a thread safe version of hash?
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<sdegutis>
yes
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<sdegutis>
well, one that blocks when you set or get a key
<sdegutis>
just like Queue blocks when you push until you pop
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<MrZYX>
hm, not in stdlib afaik, but shouldn't be too hard to write a wrapper around hash
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<hanmac>
in ruby 2.1 there are 7 different parameter types for method parameters
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<RubyPanther>
I do it the same except without the constant
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<aces1up>
hey guys i'm trying to build a recursive merge function that ONLY merges on existing keys in original hash, here is what i have so far, really could use some help getting it working! http://codepad.org/3QynUzTz
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<sdegutis>
if i do Thread.new { puts 'hi' }, will that thread still exist when it returns, it will it go away?
<aces1up>
well the result doesn't look right, the merge should ONLY happen if original hash has key same as other hash.
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<aces1up>
and then the key should be overwritten from other hash in that case.
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<aces1up>
{:a=>{:X=>1}
<aces1up>
should not be there.
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<aces1up>
as :X is not in original hash.
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<aces1up>
heftig i don't see why the X: key would be in result when you have key?(k) this is similar to results i'm getting with my code as well.
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<heftig>
aces1up: there is no original hash
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<aces1up>
i think it has something to do with the parent key doing a merge on a:
<aces1up>
and a: included X: in second hash thus overwriting previous merge?
<heftig>
the value of :a in the left hash is an integer, not a hash, so it just gets replaced by the value in the right hash
<heftig>
(which is a hash)
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<sdegutis>
theres no freenode channel for discussing language-agnostic general program design
<aces1up>
hef ok i see.
<sdegutis>
so im giving #generaldesign a shot
<sdegutis>
join if you want
<aces1up>
heftig thanks i will test this code more.
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<aces1up>
heftig you know if there is a good text or guide on writing these types of enumerable ruby recursive functions? I just can't seem to build them well my self.
<heftig>
no
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<AntelopeSalad>
how often do you guys use structs instead of initializers for classes?
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<aces1up>
heftig check out these two hashes.. it doesn't seem to work with the algo, as i think the parent key overwrites lower keys
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<sdegutis>
is there a way to find out how many Threads exist total?
<pskosinski>
hanmac: But I think that you should talk to someone else…
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<pskosinski>
But profil left
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<pskosinski>
Damn, I will just stay with PHP for forum :<
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<hanmac>
damm you are right oO
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<mjc_>
pskosinski: it's possible to get it running with 512 or so and some swap without being too bad
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<zmansiv>
hi, is it possible in ruby to have multiple methods of the same name that take different parameters? it doesn't seem like it is, so how would i go about achieving that? i.e. being able to pass both a hash and a string (a key without an associated value basically) to the same method
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<RubyPanther>
basically, rubyists "never" use kind_of?
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<zmansiv>
RubyPanther is there another way i can achieve allowing my Dictionary class' "add" method to take both a hash (key value pair) and a string (just a key)?
<hanmac>
RubyPanther i sometimes do, when i check for symbol
<Dysruption>
i need to write a ruby script that inserts records into a database… and the script needs to run on windows… any advice?
<RubyPanther>
checking for symbol is probably the one exception. Other things, even checking for Hash will break people's stuff
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<sdegutis>
threads are hard
<RubyPanther>
zmansiv: you would write 3 methods instead of two, and the one called add just looks at the args and decides which one to pass off to
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<zmansiv>
the "decider" would do so by checking the argument's type though?
<hanmac>
RubyPanther: in one of my older code, i added a check for the arity parameters ;P
<hanmac>
of a block
<RubyPanther>
Dysruption: I'm using ActiveRecord with a lot of success, I just dev on linux and when I need to run it on windows i use the "one click installer" and then the one-click "dev kit" and then everything works (even C extensions)
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<sam113101>
I'd do
<Dysruption>
RubyPanther: the one-click-installer of ruby?
<RubyPanther>
So far I haven't had a single windows-specific worry
<RubyPanther>
yeah
<Dysruption>
RubyPanther: mysql2 adapter...
<Dysruption>
can't get it to work
<RubyPanther>
Dunno, I'm only using postgres and SQL Server (ugh)
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<hanmac>
RubyPanther: my windows is the only platform where i didnt tested my C++ extensions yet ...
<RubyPanther>
it should work, but you probably have to install the mysql deps by hand
<hanmac>
minus that my
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<Dysruption>
RubyPanther:
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<Dysruption>
woops, you mean compile the source n stuff
<RubyPanther>
hanmac: I was surprised when mine compiled unchanged lol
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<Dysruption>
RubyPanther: which version of ruby are you using on your windows
<RubyPanther>
Dysruption: normally you would need the mysql dev package, you wouldn't need to compile mysql just have the dev package
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<RubyPanther>
1.9.?
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<Dysruption>
okay
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<Dysruption>
RubyPanther: you using mysql2 or mysql gem
<Dysruption>
?
<RubyPanther>
no, I'm using postgres and SQL Server, but I'm sure lots of people are using mysql... regular "mysql" gem would be the first thing to try
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<Dysruption>
i get a different error for both...
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<Dysruption>
*each, rather
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<robert_>
is there a way to print from one of the samba gems?
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<havenwood>
frem: Does rbenv work pretty well with Fish in general?
<frem>
havenwood, yep! way better than rvm does.
<Nilium>
rbenv basically works with anything since it's not hijacking parts of the shell.
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<havenwood>
figured it would, since it builds the shims with bash and ignores fish for that part
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<havenwood>
I woulda been shocked if RVM worked with Fish.
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<frem>
i remember someone rewrote one shell-specific feature in fish? maybe that was rvm.
<havenwood>
ah
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<havenwood>
yeah, with chruby it required a fork due to chruby's unit tests requiring a semblance of posixyness. I thought it was cool that the chruby-fish guy ported all the tests to a Fish unit test thingy though.
<havenwood>
Test ALL THE THINGS! \o/
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<Nilium>
Bleh, unit tests is for chumps, my codes are perfect
<havenwood>
:P
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<Nilium>
And although I say that mockingly, I still don't use unit tests.
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<Nilium>
Mostly because I haven't found a good way to write unit tests for OpenGL stuff.
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<Nilium>
I've seen people suggest ways, but they border on the utterly insane.
<havenwood>
I haven't found a good way to write unit tests for concurrency stuff.
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<Nilium>
I remember one suggestion was to write your own dummy reference implementation of OpenGL to validate input
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<Nilium>
But then you'd have to write tests for the dummy implementation as well
<havenwood>
uhhh... ha!
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<Nilium>
And so it becomes a giant circle of pain
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<frem>
opengl testing: take a screenshot of the scene. compare it to a previously captured screenshot...
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<pontiki>
OpenGL seems like a very good exception to the idea of unit testing
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<Nilium>
frem: That's actually also been suggested before, but the problem is that both screenshots might be incorrect
<Nilium>
So then you need to write a reference implementation that guarantees correctness
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<pontiki>
back in the day, i worked for Big Computer and Printer Manufacturer
<Nilium>
I believe OS X actually provides a reference implementation though, so in theory it should be easier
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<pontiki>
when testing printer output of new printers, they had scores of people with light boxes and reference prints
<Nilium>
Yay, my book order from 3am was confirmed
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<Nilium>
That actually seems like a reasonable way to test printer output.
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<r0bglees0n>
>> class Foo; module_function; def bar; end; end; Foo.bar
<eval-in>
r0bglees0n => undefined local variable or method `module_function' for Foo:Class (NameError) ... (https://eval.in/40160)
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<pontiki>
Nilium: it *is*
<havenwood>
Guess that isn't really applicable straight up
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<havenwood>
r0bglees0n: module_function o_O
<havenwood>
r0bglees0n: Didn't realize it existed... only for modules not classes, huh?
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<r0bglees0n>
havenwood: yeah i just want to turn an instance method into a class method
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<havenwood>
ahh, dynamically - hrmmm
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<bentonbarnett>
Hi everyone!
<bentonbarnett>
I have a curious questions and was wondering if I could get some help with it :)
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<bentonbarnett>
I have a bit of code that checks to ensure that passed in arguments are the correct class and it isn't working how I'd imagine.
<bentonbarnett>
arg.kind_of?(Clazz) is returning false, but when I look in the debugger the argument is the correct class (Clazz in this example)
<bentonbarnett>
Are there any gotcha with kind_of? that I should know about?
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<MrZYX>
how do you check that in the debugger?
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<bentonbarnett>
arg.class
<MrZYX>
arg.class == Clazz ?
<MrZYX>
Clazz === arg ?
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<MrZYX>
(yes three equals)
<bentonbarnett>
arg.class == Clazz returns false.
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<MrZYX>
so class isn't Clazz
<MrZYX>
arg.class
<MrZYX>
it just has the same name
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<bentonbarnett>
Hmmm.
<MrZYX>
most likely a namespacing issue
<MrZYX>
try comparing it to ::Clazz
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<bentonbarnett>
Looks like it's a namespacing issue alright.
<bentonbarnett>
Whelp, this is going to be fun to debug :) Thanks for the help.
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<sdegutis>
if a method has to make an async call, how do you return the result of that async call from the method synchronously?
<urbanmonk>
hi .. i'm using map/reduce to calculate the total of a property on a collection of objects … however some of the objects in the collection might return nil instead of a value … is there a nice way of handling this (other then writing a custom loop) … my code right now is like this: hours_reports.map(&:total_hours).reduce(:+)
<sdegutis>
im thinking, (1) make the async call on a background thread, (2) create a new queue, (3) pop from the queue outside the callback and return the result, and (4) push onto the queue when you get something in the callback
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<sdegutis>
and by queue i mean Queue.new
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<sdegutis>
ah i have an idea. TWO QUEUES!
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<futile>
is there any way to see a Queue's current contents without using #pop?
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<RubyPanther>
is there some free online class doing a unit on race conditions this week or something?
<futile>
nope
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<futile>
im writing a custom protocol, and trying to write a client for it
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<futile>
i suppose i can #pop, examine, and #push again if the obj doesnt match my criteria
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<lectrick>
so does the "alias" keyword accept either symbol arguments or the actual method names?
<lectrick>
and which is the recommended approach?
<lectrick>
I've always used the following styles: "alias newmethod oldmethod" and "alias_method :newmethod, :oldmethod" but I've seen different styles in the wild
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<Evan_Donovan>
i have code, located here: https://gist.github.com/evandonovan/6135344, that is giving me an undefined method "document" error that i'm not sure why it's throwing
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<Evan_Donovan>
the Job Class, seen in my code snippet, defines the document method, and my classes inherit from it
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<Evan_Donovan>
when i add the document method explicitly into my classes in the top section of code i still get an undefined method "document" error
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<canton7>
there's no way anyone's going to be able to figure that out from the info you've given
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<Evan_Donovan>
what do you need from me?
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<canton7>
line number of exception, thing you're doing to prompt the exception are two things that are definitely needed. if you can produce a minimal test case that'd also help a lot, if you don't find the problem en route
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<futile>
it creates a method that lets you pop off a background-supplied queue any object matching some criteria in a way that doesn't block other calls to it
<Evan_Donovan>
canton7: i created a minimal version of the scraper task, but this one doesn't throw the missing method "document" error that the other one does: https://gist.github.com/evandonovan/6135556
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<Evan_Donovan>
let me know if there's anything else I could do that would help get to the bottom of this issue
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<Evan_Donovan>
canton7: i fixed my problem by completely rewriting the offending class...i think it was something to do with the nesting of end statements
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<stestagg>
Hi, can someone explain to me why 'foo' is in the following Array?
<stestagg>
>> class A; def self.foo; "FOO" end; end; class B < A; end; B.public_methods(false)
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<_JamieD_>
I'm thinking that I should be able to remove or at least clean up line 3 somehow
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<byprdct>
What's a common way of running mechanize if I needed to fill in form data? Would I create a rake task to run each time I needed to fill in the form?
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<pontiki>
do you need to do it repeatedly, like once s day, etc?
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<gyre007>
guys...when I develop gem locally...and update it....without bumuping up version in Gemfile it never gets updated when I run bundle install..
<gyre007>
how do you guys do it ?
<gyre007>
im a n00b
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<pontiki>
gyre007: how did you set it up to start with?