apeiros changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 2.0.0-p247: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p448) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com || this channel is logged at http://irclog.whitequark.org, other public logging is prohibited
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<shevy2> hmmm
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<shevy> now I am on slackware ...
<zendeavor> i'm sorry
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<shevy> haha
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<xybre> shevy: wha.. did I just.. I thought it was 2001 for a minute there.
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<shevy> hey
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<shevy> I hate most package managers anyway
<shevy> another choice could have been archlinux but I was too dumb to find a dvd iso for installation
<xybre> shevy: Linux From Scratch!
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<shevy> I think that is unfortunately only for CD size, ISO Size: 526.0 MB
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<shevy> hmm in ruby we use gem, what do the python guys use?
<xybre> Huh? There's a teorrent and magnet link to download it, and below that are links to download via http.
<xybre> shevy: they use "eggs", but they have several different package managers. "pip" is a popular one.
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<alpha123> xybre: I thought easy_install was recommended currently?
<shevy> the link is only to the small .iso see at http://mirror1.htu.tugraz.at/archlinux/iso/2013.08.01/
<alpha123> I dunno anymore, that's why I use Ruby. :D
<shevy> hehe
<shevy> hmm
<xybre> alpha123: Hmm, maybe. I forget, its been a few months since I last did any python crap.
<shevy> so they have two ways
<sam113101> PYTHON IS FRAGMENTED
<shevy> kinda weird
<xybre> Yeah, Python is split between the 2.x and 3.x series, with both being developed and not being compatible at all.
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<alpha123> Actually, my biggest problem with Python isn't the lack of a good package manager or the 2.x/3.x split, it's that Python often tries to hide its expressive functional side and be kind of like a cleaner, dynamically typed Java. Ruby in contrast embraces function programming and metaprogramming, which I find are are more expressive and powerful.
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<xybre> alpha123: really? Python is super functional. Thats really the only reason I've messed with it at all.
<xybre> That is sad :(
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<alpha123> xybre: Python is super functional (it has very good metaprogramming support as well) but that's not considered 'Pythonic'. Lambdas are kind of shunned and Guido wanted to do away with map/filter at one point
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<xybre> o__o
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<zendeavor> huh
<alpha123> ah okay, that was way back in 2005 :/
<zendeavor> why would you remove map/filter
<xybre> alpha123: but.. then why have first class functions? And directly addressable functions?
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<alpha123> xybre: ...I have no idea. I think the Python folks are typically OK with passing functions by name though, just not anonymous ones.
<alpha123> zendeavor: Here's the article: http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=98196
<alpha123> It is from 2005 though, so maybe Guido's changed his opinion.
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<zendeavor> also 2.x isn't really developed anymore. it's in maintenance mode, excepting from future import xyz additions (which i thought they also cutoff)
<alpha123> Metaprogramming at least is considered fairly un-Pythonic still.
<zendeavor> did i miss a memo on that?
<alpha123> zendeavor: The metaprogramming?
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<zendeavor> no the 2.x development
<zendeavor> i thought it went into stable/bugfix/maintenance
<xybre> MFW.
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<alpha123> oh okay. Yeah I think they aren't releasing any new 2.x versions
<alpha123> A lot of major Python libraries are still on 2.x though :/
<shevy> aww
<shevy> like ruby 1.8.7
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<zendeavor> they'll likely stay that way forever
<zendeavor> 3.x is a different breed
<zendeavor> man i can't open that article
<zendeavor> meh, url shortener must have given up on me
<alpha123> IMO the Ruby community has done a great job of moving forward, I guess there's still some stuff on 1.8 but not much. Of course, it helps that we didn't decide to utterly throw backward compat in the bag. :P
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<shevy> sneaky new syntax
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<shevy> in ruby 2.0 we have ->() in ruby 3.0 we must have ()<-
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<xybre> I don't think there's *any* major or actively developed libraries that are 1.8.7 only?
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<alpha123> xybre: I don't know actually.
<xybre> I've never run across anything where I went "damn I wish I could use this lib in 1.9/2.0". But Python has loads of them and 3.x came out in 2008.
<shevy> I think ther ei snone
<alpha123> "I guess there's still some stuff on 1.8" was an uninformed guess. :P If there is anything I'm guessing it's not maintained.
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<Rylai> when was 1.9 released?
<shevy> dunno... 2008?
<zendeavor> the problem with python's ecosystem is that 3.x "cleaned" up the language quite drastically and those 2.x libs are dead-set on maintaining a *single* compatible version
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<xybre> Looks like 1.9 was first released on 25 Dec 2007
<xybre> .. Christmas gift from Matz
<zendeavor> it's a brain-glitch
<lewellyn> and python was more entrenched in 2008 than ruby was.
<shevy> cool
<shevy> soon we have 2014, 3 more years and it is ten years 1.9!
<lewellyn> so you have "big language change" combined with "lots of existing stuff" combined with "vendors are STILL shipping 2.x and will be for the foreseeable future"
<zendeavor> like, you can't really get a python 2/3 module after a certain arbitrary complexity level
<zendeavor> you have to do one or the other
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<zendeavor> but they're trying anyway
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<zendeavor> django is deeply entrenched in this iirc
<xybre> I don't think I've ever used Python 3.x for anything. Most libs and apps I've run across are 2.x only.
<lewellyn> in ruby's case, it's less common to use the system interpreter by default, so the issue would be negated.
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<lewellyn> xybre: 3.x is finally starting to ship by default places. so that'll probably start changing eventually.
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<zendeavor> xybre: because writing a dual-compatible module is flippin *hard*
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<xybre> lewellyn: does they still recommend that awful documentation format?
<xybre> s/does/do
<zendeavor> but those libs' authors just *refuse* to maintain two version branches
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<lewellyn> xybre: i don't write as much python as i did in like the python 1.x days, so i can't say. :)
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<zendeavor> where do you get the idea that it's less common to use the system ruby interpreter than the system python interpreter?
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<zendeavor> python 3.3 included virtualenv for a reason...
<xybre> zendeavor: everyone recommends RVM or similar to install Ruby, every tutorial, and every time a person asks in here, thats what they're told
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<zendeavor> for python, everyone recommends virtualenv
<xybre> Oh, I misunderstood your question I think
<xybre> :D
<havenwood> i recommend chruby
<lewellyn> zendeavor: and virtualenv wasn't popular for 2.x. and rvm/rbenv is commonplace.
<lewellyn> hell, i don't think virtualenv even showed up on most people's radars till after python 2.5.
<zendeavor> this should be (but sadly isn't) common knowledge: don't develop against your system's installation (including the libs)
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<lewellyn> it probably doesn't help that virtualenv replaced workingenv, which was beyond problematic for most who tried it. :/
<zendeavor> probably
<zendeavor> rvm is headed down that path
<lewellyn> and workingenv was only python 2.4 or so.
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<zendeavor> not to rag on rvm or anything, but it's a monster
<lewellyn> in those days, python 2.1 was still commonplace on systems.
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<lewellyn> zendeavor: rvm is a monster in a different way than workingenv was.
<zendeavor> like, it's a miracle rvm mostly functions at all
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<zendeavor> it gets the job done well though.
<lewellyn> rvm fails dramatically in some shells.
<zendeavor> (somehow)
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<lewellyn> it's great if you like bash.
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<lewellyn> not so great if you use ksh93 or mksh or something.
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<zendeavor> i'm making ksh-family support ^_^
<lewellyn> which is a nice change from the usual response when i mention that ;)
<lewellyn> "wtf. everyone uses bash! why are you trying to be different!? bash > *"
<zendeavor> not for rvm tho
<zendeavor> bash is a pretty great shell
<zendeavor> ksh-family shells are kinda amazing though
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<zendeavor> http://is.gd/v6vkCY based on chruby
<zendeavor> actually working off the chruby 0.4.0 branch lol
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<lewellyn> i like standards-compliance. bash isn't the best at that. :/
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<callmeivan> does somebody know if FDC servers supports port forwarding on their XEN vservers?
<zendeavor> what standards? it's fully POSIX compliant?
<callmeivan> You can check with "iptables -L" if it works. If it does not it will say something like "FATAL: Module ip_tables not found.".
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<zendeavor> huh
<zendeavor> how did you end up in #ruby with that question
<zendeavor> are you Llckfan in disguise
<callmeivan> well i assume a good percentage of you guys own servers
<zendeavor> wrong answer
<callmeivan> and i did not get a reply on lowendtalk and also not via fdcs support :(
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<zendeavor> random freenode channels aren't the place to go either
<callmeivan> zendeavor: i think it is a fair assumption
<Rylai> FDC?
<Senjai> callmeivan: What makes you think #ruby would know anything?
<xybre> zendeavor: whats so great about ksh?
<lewellyn> zendeavor: it's posix compliant except when they've not gotten around to it or when it disagrees with what they think is "right"
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<zendeavor> lewellyn: true and false
<lewellyn> i understand that they've been making strides towards fixing where they lack, but even mksh is closer the last i checked. and that's practically a one-man show.
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<zendeavor> mira is awesome
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<lewellyn> indeed
<lewellyn> but you'd expect that a project like bash would have more "oompf" in their development.
<zendeavor> anyway, bash implements the full posix spec
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<shevy> bash is kinda like the old behemoth... nothing fancy... it works... it will continue to roll slowly forward... without cheerleaders
<zendeavor> maybe you are under the impression posix is always clear in the spec
<lewellyn> my data about posix compatibility may be way outdated.
<zendeavor> very much of posix is "implementation defined
<zendeavor> "
<lewellyn> but there was a lot of holier-than-thou when i was wanting to try to help them early in the 2.x days.
<zendeavor> you probably are just out of date
<shevy> lewellyn
<zendeavor> and bash is a one-man show also
<shevy> I am going to call you an old dude henceforthwith
<zendeavor> chet ramey, alone
<lewellyn> hm. i thought there were more contributors regularly than just chet ramey.
<zendeavor> nope
<lewellyn> shevy: Version M-11/16/88i
<zendeavor> it probably gets more patch submissions than ksh-family shells
<shevy> damn that is actually young
<lewellyn> Version 11/16/88h
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<lewellyn> i have multiple ksh88 i keep handy still ;)
<lewellyn> shevy: i'm saying i'm old enough to be comfortable in an "ancient" ksh.
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<zendeavor> perhaps you can look over my work and tell me if anything stands out as incompatible then
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<lewellyn> zendeavor: today's my day off. i'm trying damn hard to not look at anything that resembles code.
<lewellyn> poke me monday. :D
<lewellyn> i don't take many vacation days.
<ashp> Argh, I can't figure this out. If I have ['a','b'].each do |thing| and inside the block I want to do property.a.should eq 'x' (these are rspec tests), how can I write property.thing?
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<ashp> I tried send("property.#{thing}"), property.thing.should, several other things
<ashp> I basically need to take "property.#{thing}" and turn it into a real method call
<zendeavor> xybre: sorry. ksh93 is developed to be more like tcl than /bin/sh
<zendeavor> that makes it awesome
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<zendeavor> it's got zany features you'd never expect to find in a common shell
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<lewellyn> zendeavor: ksh is a superset of /bin/sh. and the posix sh is really ksh. :)
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<zendeavor> you're preaching to the choir here
<lewellyn> i'm adding to what you said. ;)
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<lewellyn> tcl is a bad word in most circles.
<zendeavor> add it toward xybre then ;p
<lewellyn> but yes, associative arrays in a shell are always good ;)
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<zendeavor> bash4.2 got associative arrays
<lewellyn> and native tcp/udp support.
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<lewellyn> zendeavor: ksh has had it for years though.
<zendeavor> or maybe 4.x something
<zendeavor> bash4.3 finally got nameref, coming soon
<lewellyn> it's likely to be in posix.next too
<zendeavor> bash's nameref sucksssss
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<zendeavor> it's a thinly veiled eval wrapper instead of a real pass-by-reference
<lewellyn> zendeavor: also there should be an optional 93 at the end ;)
<lewellyn> dammit. you tricked me! :)
<zendeavor> ?
<lewellyn> 17:58 lewellyn: zendeavor: today's my day off. i'm trying damn hard to not look at anything that resembles code.
<zendeavor> this doesn't count
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<zendeavor> totes.
<lewellyn> hahaha
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<zendeavor> ^_^
<zendeavor> i can't figure out how to answer ashp though
<zendeavor> someone do it
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<lewellyn> ashp's question makes no sense when i mentally block the ruby from it :D
<ashp> zendeavor: http://fpaste.org/32730/67016161/ the actual code and failures
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<ashp> hopefully some context helps with that
<ashp> something weird is happening because if I remove all the arrays and just do things like instance.max_queries_per_hour (first failure, 6), it'll work
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<ashp> so it's the send() or something that's exploding
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<zendeavor> looks like because you're sending the whole thing as a single string?
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<pontiki> ashp: what object is .send sending to in those tests?
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<ashp> ahhh, I just had to do instance.send() instead, that makes a lot more sense
<ashp> zendeavor: thanks for putting me on the right path :)
<zendeavor> did i?
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<zendeavor> i'm not sure that what i said actually...makes any sense...
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<shevy> you have reached a level of understanding where you can give the right answer without your brain having to think at all zendeavor
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<zendeavor> on a serious note, though, i don't get it.
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<Spooner> Not sure what the confusion over send is.
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<shevy> send should always be combined with method_missing for maximum effect
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<Senjai> shevy: Not true..
<Senjai> shevy: There are usecases for send that don't have anything to do with method_missing
<Spooner> I believe that shevy was being sarcastic.
<zendeavor> i'm a ruby nooby
<zendeavor> i don't even know what send does yet
<shevy> yeah
<zendeavor> i just took a wild guess at the problem derived from the error message
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<Spooner> #send allows you to call methods dynamically, using a string.
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<shevy> I once did that though... I ended up with a bunch of classes that kept on delegating things like crazy to other classes
<Spooner> e.g. frog.fish(12) is the same as frog.send("fish", 12)
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<Senjai> Spooner: which I use a LOT in rails
<Senjai> with polymorphic associations
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<pontiki> Spooner: take a lok at ashp's paste and tell me why you think there's confusion
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<shevy> is there still confusion?
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<Spooner> pontiki, I believe the confusion was about thinking of send like eval, but hard to tell _why_ broken code gets written.
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<ashp> all I know is I didn't have to write the same two tests 4 times by using send, so I'm a happy camper
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<pontiki> nod
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<shevy> hmm
<shevy> can I send a loop?
<pontiki> you send a method to an object
<shevy> :(
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<pontiki> but take that barrel roll anyway
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<graft> you can send :each
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<diegoviola> what do you do if you hate rspec/cucumber and one project you want to work is using it? do you just bite the bullet and use it anyway, or you move on? i came to realise i prefer minitest/test-units, it looks simpler, but i think most rails apps are using cucumber and the like
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<diegoviola> sorry for the odd question...
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<zendeavor> bite the bullet or rewrite their tests for them and make them agree that your way is better
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<diegoviola> i used to prefer ramaze too for this very same reason, simplicity
<diegoviola> ramaze to rails
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<diegoviola> sounds right, thanks
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<Mattx> is it possible to silence a lib I'm using?
<Mattx> it's outputing to stdout a lot of things I don't want to see
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<Mattx> never mind, found it
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<zendeavor> according to this doc http://is.gd/EzAo8L GEM_PATH is searched secondarily to GEM_HOME
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<zendeavor> GEM_HOME serves a dual-purpose though, right
<zendeavor> it is the base directory where new gems are installed to
<zendeavor> but also is the first path searched when one does `require 'somegem'`
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<sheap> hey guys, I want to make a program that pulls the bus times around me and brings them up relative to the current time...is that possible?
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<Senjai> shevy: wat
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<popl> like Google Maps?
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<whowantstolivefo> i am trying to install a gem but i get the following error. i have rvm and ubuntu 12.04 https://gist.github.com/maasdesigner/6255533 does my issue about ruby or anything else ?
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<popl> whowantstolivefo: It's a EACCES error which means the process does not have permission to write to a particular path (/var/lib/gems in this case)
<popl> oh, it goes on
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<sevenseacat> yeah its an rvm thing
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<popl> sevenseacat: what's going on?
<whowantstolivefo> sevenseacat: thank you
<sevenseacat> helping the guy in #rubyonrails after crossposting - he didnt set his terminal as a login shell, rvm isnt working properly
<popl> oh
<popl> then it's not the fault of rvm
<popl> I've seen people having similar issues when trying to run cronjobs within particular environments.
<sevenseacat> not sure how thats related, but okay
<popl> same class of error
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<whowantstolivef3> i installed a gem call with refinerycms and it installed latest version (2.1.0) but i want to use 2.0.0 . i typed " gem uninstall refinerycms -v 2.1.0 " later i typed " gem install refinerycms -v 2.0.0 it installed successfully , does it true way to do this ? now refinerycms2.0 works well ? or i must do anything else ? thank you
<xybre> sevenseacat: cron doesn't always init the environment the way people expect, I think is what he means
<sevenseacat> but we werent talking about cron
<xybre> sevenseacat: true
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<whowantstolivefo> guys, when i try to install rmagick i get the following error https://gist.github.com/maasdesigner/6256082 how i can fix it ?
<apeiros> whowantstolivefo: and this is a ruby problem how?
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<MrZYX> no, it's a #ubuntu problem
<sevenseacat> cross-posting things when its unrelated to BOTH channels, is annoying
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<whowantstolivefo> MrZYX: hmmi was think it s about ruby gems problem because i cant install rmagick
<Beoran_> use imagescience then, less memory leaks
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<whowantstolivefo> okay, i got it
<spike|spiegel> apeiros: any particular reason for being that uptight about cross posts?
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<apeiros> spike|spiegel: people who cross-post rarely ever share solutions from other channels, or even bother to tell that they've got an answer. and that's the end of this discussion. pm if you want to continue.
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<spike|spiegel> just curious, so, pretty much 'waste other's time'
<apeiros> spike|spiegel: any particular reason you think basic decency isn't needed in irc?
<apeiros> spike|spiegel: pretty much, yes
<spike|spiegel> all I meant was kicking was a bit too much
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<sevenseacat> or they inevitably just turn into help vampires.
<apeiros> spike|spiegel: that's from experience. people don't take it serious if you just tell them.
<zendeavor> usually already are
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<apeiros> and a kick doesn't prevent you from rejoining. though, now that you say it, I usually noted that in the kick message (since some users don't understand the difference between kick & ban)
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<spike|spiegel> whowantstolivefo: just read your gist, there's a dependency issue with your system packages.
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<matti> ;]
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<whowantstolivefo> spike|spiegel: i fixed thank yu
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<claymore> why does ruby (at least, the build I'm using) not have "./lib" in the $LOAD_PATH by default?
<spike|spiegel> what is ./lib?
<Nilium> Why would it?
<claymore> well, it's a common directory in gems, or other programs following this file structure
<Nilium> But it's a relative path.
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<claymore> yeah, but does that matter?
<Nilium> Yes.
<claymore> is it a convention that $LOAD_PATH should only have absolute paths?
<Nilium> Was it 1.9 that removed '.' as one of the default load paths?
<Nilium> Anyway, it was either 1.9 or 2.0 that removed it, probably 1.9 'cause I don't remember seeing it in 2.0's changes. It wouldn't make sense to reintroduce a relative path.
<spike|spiegel> 1.9 it was
<claymore> it just feels ugly to have to write $LOAD_PATH << "./lib" before doing requires
<Nilium> To me, it mainly comes across as a security thing.
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<claymore> hmm, I guess that's a consideration with relative paths
<banisterfiend> claymore: it is in the load path in the case of gems
<banisterfiend> because gems are canonical libraries
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<Nilium> Also, you can always just pass -Ilib to Ruby.
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<banisterfiend> i usually create a 'rake run' rake task that does that for me
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<Nilium> I usually don't use rake 'cause I'm a horrible person.
<claymore> I see, thanks guys
<Nilium> Maybe I'll try to play more Counter-Strike and see if I can't stop sucking at multiplayer games for once.
<claymore> and I didn't know about the -Ilib option, that looks useful
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<zendeavor> counter strike
<zendeavor> my poison.
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<zendeavor> since 2001
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<sevenseacat> im no good at counter strike
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<zendeavor> it takes more dedication than it's worth
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<zendeavor> and pubbing is not even close to competitive play, as is usual with such games
<workmad3> I never really liked counter strike
<workmad3> for some reason it, and all the other multiplayer games built on the HL1 engine, felt slow to me (slow-paced action, not laggy, jerky because of machine specs)
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<zendeavor> cs is deliberately slow-paced
<workmad3> yeah, I prefer higher-paced action in FPSs
<workmad3> or at least, I did back when I played them a lot more than I do now :)
<sevenseacat> only FPS im any good at is TF2
<workmad3> I used to be reasonable at UT
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<zendeavor> i loved the mixture of highbrow mindgaming and twitch-based action
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<zendeavor> the maps are small, your movements are easily trackable. outsmarting the opponent required elaborate ad-hoc strategy
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<zendeavor> unless you were a quick and deadly accurate shot, in which case you blow their face off
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<ganeshran> in NET::Http class how do I set the authentication token?
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<ganeshran> I mean authentication header with an oauth token
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<ganeshran> This line doesnt work :( req = request_class.new(query_string, {'Authorization' => "Bearer #{@oauthToken}" })
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<Nilium> You'll need more explanation than that.
<workmad3> ganeshran: I'd suggest you use one of the several available OAuth client libraries tbh
<banisterfiend> ganeshran: :( is a syntax error
<pontiki> i always :( at my syntax errors, too
<workmad3> ganeshran: at least, I would if this is something you intend to use in a real project... if you're trying to learn net/http and oauth then have fun :)
<ganeshran> workmad3: banisterfiend I am using omniauth to get the token but is there an oauth library to make the request as well?
<ganeshran> banisterfiend: can you please point it out. I am really new to ruby :(
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<ganeshran> workmad3: I am already using omniauth. I am not sure if there is a library which just takes the oauth 2 token and returns the resource
<workmad3> ganeshran: you could look at the twitter client gem source: https://github.com/sferik/twitter/blob/master/lib/twitter/client.rb
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<Nilium> I feel like I have vaguely improved at shooting virtual people in the head.
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<zendeavor> you missed the cs talk
<Nilium> I watched it on the secondary monitor.
<Nilium> I use downtime after dying to see where everyone is focusing their defense.
<Nilium> I like that it's a reasonable thing to do.
<Nilium> Unlike, say, Quake 3 where it's just run 'til you see someone
<Nilium> Granted I love Quake 3 as well.
<zendeavor> i don't play pub servers anymore
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<Nilium> I used to play on TacticalGamer servers because they didn't just let deathmatchers join
<Nilium> It's sort of sad how many bomb carriers just ignore that they have the bomb, or how CTs never grab hostages.
<zendeavor> very
<zendeavor> do you play GO?
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<Nilium> Yes.
<Nilium> I haven't seen what CS:S is like in ages, and I doubt I'd want to actually play the original anymore
<zendeavor> huge nostalgia for 1.6
<Nilium> Though I am admittedly a sad person who paid for Condition Zero.
<zendeavor> i bought cz
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<zendeavor> support the franchises you love man
<Nilium> A friend of mine worked on it, so that was mostly the reason
<zendeavor> at turtle rock?
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<Nilium> I think?
<zendeavor> my geek is leaking, sorry
* zendeavor plugs it
<zendeavor> get ESEA
<zendeavor> play that
<zendeavor> you'll feel crippled.
<zendeavor> it's so liberating.
<Nilium> I'm not a fan of the whole e-sports thing, really.
<zendeavor> "you mean THIS is how you play CS????"
<Nilium> I've seen what Q3 players and such can do and I just sort of stopped playing
<zendeavor> none of it's hard to do
<zendeavor> now i want to watch some matches
<zendeavor> i'll never sleep if i start that.
<zendeavor> who needs sleep anyway.
<sevenseacat> sleep is overrated.
<zendeavor> i bet there's been a couple LAN events since i fell out of touch
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<zendeavor> esea s14 lan finals coming up
<Nilium> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q76UNcuKSVY ← This is pretty entertaining.
<zendeavor> is it pubmasters
<zendeavor> oh, no it's q3
<zendeavor> check out esea lan finals, it starts in a few hours
<zendeavor> TF2 also
<Nilium> I'll be asleep or working on scala stuff by then, I think
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<spike|spiegel> oh how I remember the days I used to play quake3!
<Nilium> I can't play most multiplayer games now. I lack the motivation necessary to get good at them.
<zendeavor> same
<zendeavor> but cs holds a place in my heart
<banisterfiend> Nilium: you should just skulk around second life spying on people in their houses
<Nilium> I get by in Counter-Strike by running around with a shotgun and getting really lucky.
<zendeavor> it's in my blood
<zendeavor> ugh, those stupid shotguns
<Nilium> banisterfiend: Did that once. Came out feeling kind of traumatized.
<Nilium> The sawn-off shotgun in CS:GO is actually pretty nice.
<banisterfiend> Nilium: heh heh, have you heard of estabo?
<zendeavor> mag72stronk
<Nilium> Might've, I don't know anymore
<banisterfiend> sorry esteban
<Nilium> If it was on Something Awful at any point, I probably read about it
<Nilium> O_o
<ganeshran> workmad3: thanks . Looking at the code now
<Nilium> When did it get voice chat and lip syncing? O_o
<banisterfiend> Nilium: coupla years ago
<Nilium> Boy, it's changed since the days of yore and 9-foot genitals.
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<zachrab> whats the most lightweight Ruby web framework? Sinatra?
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<canton7> probably
<Mon_Ouie> Well, "most lightweight" isn't very useful
<Mon_Ouie> https://github.com/rkh/almost-sinatra this is quite lightweight
<canton7> that's the link I was looking for!
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<sevenseacat> lol
<zachrab> i want to use it as a server for a mobile app?
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<sevenseacat> that is indeed a feat
<Nilium> By mobile app server, do you mean a server on the device?
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<MrZYX> hm, does Rack count into "Ruby web framework"? :P
<zachrab> MrZYX: what is Rack exactly?
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<canton7> sinatra, and many others, run on it
<zachrab> So can i just use Rack and a webserver?
<MrZYX> rack and a application server, like Passenger, Webrick, Thin, Unicorn, Mongrel and a dozen others
<zachrab> whats the best application server?
<MrZYX> do you think there would be that many if there's "the best way" to do it?
<MrZYX> apparently rack also provides interfaces for CGI, FCGI and SCGI
<shevy> rack is like a swiss army knife
<zachrab> MrZYX: whats CGI CFGI?
<MrZYX> zachrab: google
<zachrab> k
<shevy> fast cgi?
<shevy> no idea about SCGI
<MrZYX> me neither :P
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<shevy> do people still use .cgi scripts?
<MrZYX> (fast cgi is right)
<MrZYX> I think some perl and bash people do
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<MrZYX> OpenWRT for example iirc
<MrZYX> well their new webif is written in lua actually
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<shevy> hehe
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<visof> hi
<visof> in erb i can do this "<%= var %>" , will work like "#{var}" ?
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<shevy> I would hope so
<MrZYX> easy enough to try out?
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<visof_> in erb i can do this "<%= var %>" , will work like "#{var}" ?
<zendeavor> i would hope so
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<MrZYX> visof_: why don't you just try it out?
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<canton7> deja vu
<MrZYX> he had a ping timeout
<canton7> aha
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<shevy> dumdedum
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<ganeshran> Hi I am trying to understand this line from a code . Can someone please explain what it is doing http://pastie.org/8245067
<ganeshran> the line is (ATTRIBUTES - [:config_file, :username, :password]).map { |a| self.send a }.map(&:nil?).none?
<ganeshran> I am not able to understand what the two maps are doing :(
<bnagy> it is bad code
<ganeshran> bnagy: can you please tell what it is going? Is it validating for nill attributes in the collection
<bnagy> well the end anyway, .map(&:nil?).none? is just .all?
<ganeshran> it is doing*
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<bnagy> it's making sure whatever object this is in has a value for everything in attributes except for those three things
<bnagy> badly
<sevenseacat> hah
<bnagy> well making sure the object we're in ( self ) responds to all those things
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<bnagy> uh.. no.
<bnagy> the first thing I said :)
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<bnagy> wheee gin
<ganeshran> bnagy: thanks I will try to modify it as per my need
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<shevy> that's indeed odd code, I think whoever wrote it hated ruby
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<dkamioka> hello ppl. First time here. Nice to meet you all.
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<ganeshran> shevy: is there a better way to check for all nil attributes in a collection?
<pontiki> well, the self.send means they're actually running them, and checking that they all return non-nil
<pontiki> but it is interesting
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<ganeshran> got this code in this github library https://github.com/bru/Socialcastr.
<shevy> ganeshran dunno but why is .none? used
<bnagy> yeah it looks pretty unlikely that it's the best way to write it
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<bnagy> shevy: they want to check that none are nil, but they don't know .all? exosts
<apeiros> .map(&:nil?).none? is IMO a bad way to do ! .include?(nil)
<apeiros> bnagy: all? checks for false too, though
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<bnagy> yeah
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<ganeshran> shevy: it is trying to check for no nil elements is my guess. Even if a single one returns nil the method fails
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<dkamioka> here you guys talk about ruby, but is rails ok or better go to the rubyonrails channel?
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<bnagy> dkamioka: better to hit #rubyonrails
<shevy> dkamioka best ask the rails guys about rails, I for instance know nothing about rails, only ruby questions
<dkamioka> oh thx.
<dkamioka> I like ruby more than rails too. But nowadays our clients are all about rails.
<shevy> hehe
<shevy> dont worry
<shevy> even apeiros fell to the dark side
<dkamioka> although it's kinda strange to say ruby over rails...
<dkamioka> coz it uses ruby...
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<shevy> until it will become its own programming language!
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<ganeshran> any suggestions for good tutorials or beginners books about ruby? I am trying to learn it and coming from a C# background it can be hard sometimes
<shevy> ganeshran I liked the pickaxe. but if you only want online stuff, work through learn to program http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/?Chapter=01
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<ganeshran> shevy: not such a beginner's tutorial. :) Maybe I should have said intermediate level.
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<apeiros> %&"*"?! StringScanner…
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<shevy> ganeshran I will ask you questions from this tutorial ok?
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<apeiros> doesn't provide a way to get MatchData and somehow $~ gets unset :(
<shevy> ganeshran first question which you would be able to answer if you worked through it - how does "yield" work in ruby?
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<shevy> yeah, I am scared by some of the $, they seem shaky and volatile sometimes
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<spike|spiegel> some of them are fiber local ^_^
<dkamioka> shevy: in what sense? How do we programmers may use it, or how the ruby interpreter "compiles" it?
<spike|spiegel> it's just awesome
<apeiros> and of course StringScanner#[] doesn't work with named captures
<apeiros> suckage :(
<shevy> dkamioka you mean the $ ?
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<dkamioka> yield
<shevy> dkamioka how we use it in ruby, ganeshran needs to find out and answer first :D
<shevy> ganeshran after you worked through that tutorial, download the source and study it, it's awesome
<shevy> years ago I wanted to extend it
* spike|spiegel pukes
<shevy> clean that up spike|spiegel !
<spike|spiegel> MRI C source is awesome??
<apeiros> even weirder - the same code works fine in pry
<workmad3> apeiros: something to do with how IRB does its repl, maybe?
<apeiros> maybe
<shevy> spike|spiegel, no I meant the code of LearnToProgram/?Chapter=01
<shevy> it's like one big fat file
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<platzhirsch> Design advise: I have different entities represented by classes and their respective instances. Now I need an instance to represent All instances. It does need to have special attribute values, but is there a Ruby idiomatic way to do that?
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<MrZYX> so you need an augmented array, basically?
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<dkamioka> an array solves it? or do you need it to be a class ? something like mixin?
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<dkamioka> need to use the methods of all the classes?
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<dkamioka> ppl, which OS do you use?
<dkamioka> Actually, which irc client do you use?
<apeiros> osx
<apeiros> limechat. not as happy with it anymore, though
<pontiki> irssi
<canton7> xchat
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<jp-> telnet
<jp-> keeps me sharp trying to track conversations.
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<chihhsin> irssi ftw!
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<Morrolan> KVIrc. \o/
<Morrolan> jp-: Haha.
<gemmy> Is it posible configure irb to don't show the result when I insert statments?
<Morrolan> As in, tell it not to print the return value of your statement?
<gemmy> I mean the => ...
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<canton7> gemmy, end it in a ;
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<Morrolan> canton7: That'd be pry. Does irb support it, too?
<gemmy> ops!
<canton7> yup
<dkamioka> limechat?
<dkamioka> well I am using mIRC
<dkamioka> because i am at my gamin machine.
<Morrolan> gemmy: `conf.return_format = ''` according to Google.
<gemmy> Thanks canton7
<dkamioka> gaming* Windows.
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<Morrolan> Oh, if it supports ; too, then that's much nicer, of course. :D
<apeiros> jp-: manually typing 'ping' must be awesome :-p
<apeiros> err, 'pong'
<dkamioka> well... gonna give it a try.
<dkamioka> limechat, irssi
<dkamioka> thanks!
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<apeiros> gemmy: detailed answer: http://stackoverflow.com/a/10150648/764342
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<spike|spiegel> whut? just use weechat
<Banistergalaxy> Canton7 last time I checked irb did not support ;
<canton7> hmm, worked when I tried it 1 min ago
<gemmy> hey, good answer apeiros. thanks.
<Banistergalaxy> It just caused input to continue to next line
<Banistergalaxy> Ate you sure it wasn't just continuing input?
<Banistergalaxy> Sometimes that looks like the same thing
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<apeiros> "It just caused input to continue" - that's kinda the point
<apeiros> but which is why I said ;0, instead of just ;
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<shevy> ping pong
<atno> apeiros in greek means "without experience" not the case with you
<spike|spiegel> I usually use "and 1"
<Banistergalaxy> Yeah but that's not the behavior he wanted ;) or the behavior pry gives him, which is just to suppress output
<apeiros> atno: that's not the only meaning, though
<atno> oh you mean infinity?
<apeiros> also I actually derived it from apeiron
<apeiros> see anaximandros
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<atno> k
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<dkamioka> ppl nice to meet you all thanks for the pleasant talk.
<dkamioka> or... chat.
<dkamioka> see ya soon.
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<spike|spiegel> whoa, someone is polite here!
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<platzhirsch> How to sort Ruby instance methods?
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<shevy> platzhirsch how do you get them? if it is an array, do .sort
<platzhirsch> shevy: oops, I mean in the class definition
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<waxjar> write them in alphabetical order?
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<pontiki> i always put initialize first
<waxjar> same
<waxjar> private methods i put at the end
<pontiki> nod
<apeiros> my class definitions look like: extends, includes, constants, attr_*, initialize, public, protected, private
<pontiki> actually, yeah
<pontiki> like that
<apeiros> that said, I think I've never had protected methods in the last couple of years :)
<pontiki> i'm not so good about alpha sorting them inside
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<apeiros> I see no point in doing that
<waxjar> i think i understood the question wrong
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<MrZYX> additionally I tend to sort the methods by level of abstraction and methods invoked by other methods below but close to them
<apeiros> the instance methods I usually only have "groups" of methods which loosely belong together
<apeiros> conversion methods often being the last thing (to_* and inspect)
<waxjar> yea, that's how i write them too
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<Mattx> Hello
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<Mattx> I'm trying to use Open3.popen2, but as soon as I read the first line of stdout (using stdout.each do |line| ... end), it hangs
<Mattx> nothing else is executed, it's weird
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<Mattx> same for IO.popen!
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<IceDragon> quick question guys! Is their a ruby gem for generating Module trees? (like it reads all the module's constants and generates a kind of sub-module tree thing ma jig)?
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<shevy> hmm dont think so IceDragon but perhaps one hidden deep somewhere
<IceDragon> ;-; Or I could just write one
<IceDragon> 8 lines, and it looks like it can do the job thus far...
<banisterfiend> IceDragon: you mean like a visual representation?
<IceDragon> yup
<IceDragon> nothing fancy
<banisterfiend> ascii?
<IceDragon> even just text is fine
<shevy> apeiros, you really sort private vs. public, with private going last in your class definitions?
<workmad3> IceDragon: write out a graphviz file!
<banisterfiend> pretty easy yeah
<banisterfiend> IceDragon: you have to worry a bit about infinite loops though
<IceDragon> yeah :P
<banisterfiend> IceDragon: module A; B = ::A ; end
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<IceDragon> ;_; The horror of infinite loops!
<IceDragon> I've added a depth check just in case of that
<IceDragon> anything over 100 sub modules is just plain insane
<workmad3> IceDragon: why not just have a 'visited' array?
<IceDragon> or that too !
<IceDragon> thanks workmad3
<IceDragon> and you too banisterfiend!
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<workmad3> IceDragon: if you spit out graphviz, and keep track of what you're calling the nodes in a visited map, you can even represent the cycles ;)
<IceDragon> too bad I have no idea how to use graphviz >:
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<IceDragon> :O
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<IceDragon> time to learn then
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<IceDragon> o_o
<workmad3> IceDragon: drats, I forgot to crap out if depth > 100
<IceDragon> xD
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<workmad3> there we go :)
<ddd> Hey workmad3
<workmad3> just installing graphviz now to see what the output looks like :)
<workmad3> hey ddd
<ddd> How you been?
<workmad3> tired
<eka> cause you work like mad
<eka> :P
<ddd> Hear that
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<workmad3> eka: :P
<eka> I know… bad joke
<workmad3> eka: no it's not
<workmad3> eka: it's not even a joke
<ddd> He works like mad, like 3 people? :-)
<workmad3> eka: jokes are meant to have some chance of being funny :P
<shevy> workmad is sad because he has a fat pink hat
<Mattx> > cmd = "rsync -P foo your_server_here:"; IO.popen cmd do |io| io.each {|l| puts l}; end
<Mattx> somehow it stop working after it prints the first line!
<Mattx> I tried with "ping -c 5 google.com" instead and it works
<ddd> Blocking?
<Mattx> any idea guys?
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<ddd> Rsync blocks until complete, doesn't't? So it would only print the first if it didn't complete
<Mattx> hmn.. ping blocks as well, doesn't it?
<ddd> s/'t't/'t/
<ddd> Faster completion. No setup like rsync
<Mattx> ping -c 100 google.com <-- works as well
<Mattx> I don't think it's about the time it takes
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<ddd> I'm going off top of my head here
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<Mattx> I'm trying to rsync some files and show the progress
<Mattx> any suggestion?
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<workmad3> IceDragon: just added cycles into that gist too :)
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<_br_> Mattx: Your best bet is pipe viewer, but rsync indexes incrementally so there are limits to what is possible.
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<workmad3> IceDragon: did your client hang?
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<shevy> hang your clients!
<Mattx> I want a progress file by file, like with -P, _br_
<workmad3> shevy: I'll prepare the rope!
<shevy> Mattx, you mean something like an asciibar?
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<Mattx> even simpler, just the number: 1%, 2%, etc..
<Mattx> which is easily obtained using -P
<Mattx> the problem is that I'm not being able to read each line -.-
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<workmad3> IcyDragon: I've added an example to that gist now too btw :)
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<IcyDragon> :O
<IcyDragon> okay!
<IcyDragon> nice!
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<_br_> Mattx: Output to log file from rsync and read that instead?
<IcyDragon> O_O my god, class speghetti...
* IcyDragon goes blind
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<_br_> anyone here has opinions on hubot? never used it and just curious.
<arietis> anyone experienced problems setting up mysql2 gem?
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<_br_> arietis: what problems? pastie?
<IceDragon> Thanks workmad3, now I can see some huge problems :I
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<IceDragon> pastie?, I have a 7mb png file staring at
<Mattx> same problem for scp :|
<workmad3> IceDragon: :D
<IceDragon> it works!
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<IceDragon> but man, oh man :x @ my class tree (or class noodles)
<_br_> Mattx: The probably is possibly since the shell magic is rewriting each line. so that way output doesn't reach anymore ruby beyond one line. Try outputting to log and read that.
<_br_> s/probably/problem/
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<Mattx> oh, that could be the problem, good idea
<workmad3> IceDragon: heh :) I just spit out Object :) other than it crapping out because something overrode the 'name' method, it looks... interesting
<Mattx> actually it couldn't, it's probably implemented using \r, so it's like adding lines to stdout even if you don't see them
<IceDragon> I hope you still have your eyes >:
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<_br_> Mattx: With shell magic I mean ^W or ^H 's are used
<IceDragon> ._. its scary when you include the parent module into a child...
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<IceDragon> and then subclass from that...
<workmad3> hehe
<workmad3> ah, that sorts out the overridden name... use to_s instead
<shredding> Block arguments are always passed as last arguments, no matter how many args a method has, right?
<_br_> arietis: Anything interesting in /Users/*/.rvm/gems/ruby-1.9.3-p392/gems/mysql2-0.3.13/ext/mysql2/gem_make.out ?
<workmad3> shredding: yes, and an explicit block argument has to have the & prefix
<shredding> workmad3: thx. Are there implicit block arguments?
<shredding> These blocks are really cool, but the concept itself is new to me.
<workmad3> shredding: yes, all methods can take an implicit block argument
<Mattx> _br_, the log is updated!!!
<_br_> arietis: It seems that this is maybe a ACL aka permissions problem you have there.
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<_br_> Mattx: so it works now?
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<Mattx> you were right, it seems the last line is replaced
<shredding> workmad3: Oh, I have already read about that in eloquent ruby :)
<shredding> Have to reread the part.
<Mattx> because it size of the log file doesn't increase
<Mattx> let me check again
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<_br_> Mattx: I'm pretty use rsync uses for -P shell ^W or ^H
<workmad3> IceDragon: ok, that bit of code is pretty fun :D I had a bit of confusion for a second when I came across multiple classes pointing to the same class :)
<Mattx> yep, it's replaced
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<Mattx> so in this case how do you capture the output?
<IceDragon> Yeah, if you mixin a module with a class in it
<workmad3> IceDragon: oh, and it looks like URI::HTTP has a self-reference :)
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<IceDragon> all the modules which included the parent will point ot the child
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<_br_> Mattx: rsync has no option for log file and log append ?
<Mattx> good question, let me see
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<_br_> Mattx: Maybe instead of #read use #readpartial e.g. http://coderrr.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/when-to-use-readpartial-instead-of-read-in-ruby/
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<banisterfiend> _br_: coderr is a cool dude,i dont see him around here anymore though
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<_br_> ya, always liked the blog
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<_br_> back to hubot fun
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<Mattx> if you append "| stdbuf -oL tr '\r' '\n'" to the command it works
<Mattx> :)
<IceDragon> workmad3: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7gpig8yhbg8xo6z/Sadie.png # this is what happens with parent inclusion..
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<arietis> also mysql_config was missing
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<rismoney> is there a way i can make this http://pastie.org/8245386 use threads, so when i call this method, i don't have to wait for slowtask to finish?
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<torarne1> Q: If I have a class Foo inheriting class Bar, is there a way to run the class level init of the base-class, just like super for the instance init?
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<banisterfiend> torarne1: Yeah
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<banisterfiend> torarne1: you mean you have: Foo < Bar < Base ?
<banisterfiend> torarne1: and you want to call #initialize from Base on Foo ?
<banisterfiend> torarne1: not quite sure what u mean there homie
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<torarne1> banisterfiend: I have My < Base, and Base has code in its class body (class init code, as I understand it?), to set up Base. This code is not run when I create a new "My", as I guess it's similar to class variables, in that they are not shared with subclasses. I'd like to run it though, as My is really just a thing wrapper around Base where I want to change the behaviour of one method slightly. I guess what I'm doing is similar to mixin/mon
<banisterfiend> torarne1: what kind of code?
<banisterfiend> torarne1: you can setup a Base.inherited(klass) which does stuff to the inheriting klass itself
<torarne1> class A; puts "A"; end; class B < A; <here i want to "super" the class init of A, so that it prints "A" as well>; end
<banisterfiend> torarne1: not really possible
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<torarne1> hmm, so perhaps i need to mixin/monkeypatch the Base class then
<banisterfiend> torarne1: you'd need to build in that functionality yourself, maybe something like class A; do_stuff { puts "A" }; end and you save the block and re-run it in the class context for each inheriting class
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<torarne1> banisterfiend: i see. i dont control Base, so that's gonna be tricky
<torarne1> thanks though :)
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<banisterfiend> torarne1: well you could create your own Base class that derives from Base and adds functionality, then make sure all your classes inherit from that
<torarne1> true
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<workmad3> IceDragon: that pic is awesome :D
<workmad3> IceDragon: I kinda want to run that method over rails, see what comes up :)
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<IceDragon> :P Well maybe you should make your code a little gem then and share it with the world!
<IceDragon> I could find a few uses for it right now
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<shevy> damn... we depend too much on google...
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<devdvd> hey everyone, having a bit of a problem. Here is my code https://gist.github.com/devblueray/6257900. Not sure why, but it runs just fine from the shell but when I try to run it with sinatra it complains that theres no method each for 2:fixnum. I researched this and found it could be because im trying to call .each on a number. However, In my code, the only place that im calling .each is on the nums array (verified through .class). It appe
<devdvd> ars to be thinking that i am running .each on each element in the array but im not...at least not explicitly. Would anyone be willing to take a look to see what obvious mistake im making?
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<eka> devdvd: what happen when you pass only 1 argument?
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<devdvd> blank page
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<devdvd> but
<eka> devdvd: I meant, what happen when you pass only 1 arg to the get_articles method
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<devdvd> well, the method works, i can see the output on the screen and there's no errors but the page is blank
<devdvd> on the console i mean
<devdvd> let me update the gist
<eka> devdvd: the gist is very bad formatted though
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<eka> devdvd: sure that the article id exists on redis?
<devdvd> positive
<devdvd> i just commented on the gist
<devdvd> thats when i pass 2 as the only value
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<eka> devdvd: why using hmget? shouldn't be hget or something?
<eka> devdvd: or hgetall
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<eka> devdvd: hmget: Returns the values associated with the specified fields in the hash stored at key.
<eka> devdvd: see the examples http://redis.io/commands/hmget
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<eka> devdvd: I think that you are using hmget wrong… https://github.com/redis/redis-rb/blob/master/test/commands_on_hashes_test.rb
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<devdvd> eka, thats entirely possible, i know a little ruby and im totally new to redis so
<devdvd> ill look into that
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<eka> devdvd: hmget gets MANY keys … hget gets 1… and you are using hmget to get a key.. then you pass literal strings?
<eka> devdvd: I think that's the problem… on how you use redis
<eka> devdvd: why don't you try ohm
<devdvd> hmm, never heard of that, ill check it out
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<devdvd> thank you eka
<eka> devdvd: no prob
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<zachrab> anybody here well versed in sinatra?
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<pontiki> not well-versed
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<zachrab> pontiki: well at least a little familiar?
<pontiki> yes
<eka> zachrab: don't ask to ask, just ask :)
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<zachrab> k
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<pontiki> i saw a 6-line version of sinatra yesterday. all my sense of everything is off
<zachrab> well i was wondering how to structure an app
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<zachrab> it seems you create an rb file which states the requests and responses correct?
<zachrab> ie get to this address renders this response
<zachrab> and thats it
<pontiki> that's the bare bones, yes
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<havenwood> pontiki: A nice thing to pair with 6-line Sinatra is 4-line Rack: https://github.com/rkh/almost-rack#readme
<pontiki> this guy looks like he's about 16
<zachrab> can i perform the same thing with just rack
<pontiki> i don't know just rack
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<havenwood> Talk about almost-sinatra from 5mo ago: http://rkh.im/almost-sinatra
<zachrab> im either gonna use sinatra or rack
<zachrab> not some hybrid
<MrZYX> xD
<canton7> sinatra runs on top of rack
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<workmad3> zachrab: rack is an interface between ruby and a webserver... sinatra is a web framework built on the rack interface
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<spike|spiegel> and am I the only who thinks rack is too simplistic?
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<zachrab_> i understand that is there a way to build a server without a framework?
<zachrab_> can I use just rack and a webserver
<pontiki> sure, write one right on top of IP
<workmad3> zachrab_: you can build a rack application directly
<spike|spiegel> you just use TCP :)
<workmad3> zachrab_: or you could use the CGI library directly...
<havenwood> zachrab: Rack is a web server interface. It is popular to pair a Rack framework with a Rack web server, but yeah, you can use Rack without a framework.
<pontiki> feh, who need transport layer
<zachrab_> workmad3: how? is there something i can reference?
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<workmad3> zachrab_: or you could write your own network server :)
<havenwood> zachrab_: Sinatra is more of a DSL on top of Rack, whereas Rails is an entire framework.
<eka> zachrab_: you can always try cuba
<zachrab_> what would i accomplish not using framework?
<zachrab_> a
<spike|spiegel> pontiki: might as well do Ethernet by hand
<zachrab_> im making a mobile app and i need a server to just serve straight up json
<havenwood> zachrab_: Rack web servers include Unicorn, Thin, Passenger, Webrick, Puma. Rack frameworks include Sinatra, Rails, Scorched, Cuba.
<pontiki> friggin softhead. just click a battery on the wire
<workmad3> zachrab_: well, the rack application is really simple... a rack application is a ruby object that responds to the method 'call' with a single parameter (the request environment) and responds with a 3 item array of [status code, {response headers}, ["response body strings"]]
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<zachrab_> workmad3: what would i accomplish by not using the sinatra framework?
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<workmad3> zachrab_: probably not much tbh
<havenwood> zachrab_: You'd be losing a nice dsl but also ditching some weight and clutter.
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<havenwood> A half-measure would be something like scorched: https://github.com/wardrop/Scorched#readme
<canton7> not very much weight - sinatra's pretty light
<canton7> (though there are lighter)
<zachrab> what does lightweight mean? what would i accomplish by not using a framework?
<waxjar> check out cuba :)
<havenwood> Sinatra is pretty minimal, but yeah there are lighter.
<canton7> you're be doing much the same as sinatra does, but by hand
<devdvd> eka, thanks for the protip on hget, didn't fix the issue (though i did get it fixed with a tip from the peeps in the sinatra channel by using stringio) but your tip greatly simplified things, no longer am i bothering with the json stuff, i can just print what i want directly
<MrZYX> in other words: if you need to ask that just use sinatra and stop worrying
<eka> devdvd: cool :)
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<zachrab_> what does light weight mean tho?
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<fryguy> zachrab_: consumes fewer resources
<zachrab_> resources?
<fryguy> zachrab_: cpu, memory, etc.
<waxjar> cpu time / memory
<zachrab_> got it
<havenwood> zachrab: Just closer to the metal. Tends to be a tad faster. You have to do more yourself. Fewer things to learn about the framework.
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<havenwood> zachrab_: Sinatra is about 1,000 lines. The most popular of the three.
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<Morrolan> Unless you're inexperienced and, therefore, doing it wrong. Then you might achieve worse performance than if you had used a framework. :)
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<havenwood> Sinatra is plenty quick for a JSON API! :)
<zachrab> whats the best db to use with Sinatra?
<canton7> it's also worth considering developer time, especially if you don't *need* the fastest possible execution speed etc
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<canton7> especially if this is a personal project
<havenwood> zachrab: Relational or not?
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<eka> zachrab: everything depends on the requirements… as usual
<zachrab> havenwood: doesn't matter
<havenwood> zachrab: PostgreSQL with Sequel gem for relational. Redis with Ohm gem for key value.
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<Todd> all of our json services at the office are RoR.. I always wondered why they didn't use something lighter
<popl> infected by the buzz?
<havenwood> Todd: Guess if you're already a Rails dev, it makes nice JSON APIs too so why not if you're more familiar.
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<popl> that too
<Todd> havenwood, we're a perl shop ;)
<havenwood> :O
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<eka> Todd: perl? still ?
<shevy> alright that's it
<popl> heh
<shevy> I am sold for sinatra now
<eka> Todd: what kind of work?
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<Todd> eka, legacy codebase is all perl ~400,000 lines of it
<eka> Todd: wow
<Todd> eka, we're a large newspaper company.. we process lots of text, but they totally went overboard
<havenwood> A Perl 6 shop. Now that would be interesting. :P
<Todd> eka, they entire CMS is written in perl
<shevy> man that mus be one of the largest perl codebases out there
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<eka> Todd: and it's a happy job?
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<eka> Todd: good code at least? (I doubt to say that when talking about perl)
<eka> well slashdot.org is perl also
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<eka> afaik
<popl> eka: stfu
<popl> :P
<eka> popl: why?
<shevy> how many lines of perl code is slashdot.org?
<popl> nevermind. I guess it's #ruby, not #perl. continue the hate
<shevy> hate?
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<eka> so popl I don't see you in #perl though...
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<eka> ;)
<shevy> it goes without emotion to note the fact that ruby is a superior language compared to perl popl
<popl> eka: you must not be in #perl then
<eka> popl: whois shows the channels you are in right?
<Rylai> eka: no
<Morrolan> #perl is probably +s.
<Rylai> eka: it shows channels you share with them
<eka> ok so… I stand corrected
<Rylai> unless they're -i
<Morrolan> Oh, Freenode must be different in that regard, then. :)
<popl> I'm always +i
<popl> people be snoopin'
<popl> ;P
<shevy> you have something to hide
<Rylai> if they're umode -i, then you can see all channels they're in that aren't +s
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<lessless> folks, is it possible to convert nokogiri's associated array into the hash: [['code', '01'], ['value', '02']] to {:code=>"01", :value=>"02"} ?
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<Morrolan> >> Hash[[['code', '01'], ['value', '02']]]
<eval-in> Morrolan => {"code"=>"01", "value"=>"02"} (https://eval.in/43664)
<waxjar> Hash.[] does that i believe
<Morrolan> Ta-da
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<shevy> lessless Hash[*[['code', '01'], ['value', '02']].flatten] # => {"code"=>"01", "value"=>"02"}
<Morrolan> Any specific reason for the splat operator?
<shevy> hmm
<popl> Rylai: #perl on fn isn't +s
<shevy> odd
<popl> s/fn/freenode/
<Todd> eka, not all of it is good.. a lot of it is "object oriented" perl before the invention of things like moose
<Todd> eka, ie.. hairy
<Rylai> popl: irrelevant to what i said really, that was only if !user.umode.contains('i') :)
<lessless> shevy, niiceee...
<popl> that's an FYI, because you were technically incorrect. take it or leave it.
<shevy> lessless yeah, Morrolan's solution is shorter, I did not see it at first
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<Morrolan> popl: Nah, it was me who thought that #perl might be +s, not him. :)
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<Rylai> i was not technically incorrect, what i stated is fact. "if they're umode -i, then you can see all channels they're in that aren't +s"
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<popl> oh -i
<popl> you are right Rylai
<popl> I am sorry
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<shevy> ok, this can only be resolved through a pit fight between you two to the death
* Morrolan hands out pitchforks and clubs
<popl> what sort of clubs?
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<popl> 80s dance clubs?
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<popl> is there a goth night?
<Morrolan> The wooden kind of.
<popl> 'cause then there's going to be like, spikes, and drama.
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<shevy> those cute little traditional wooden clubs with tiny little iron spikes in them
<Morrolan> Yep, those are the ones. :)
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<popl> Rylai: the misunderstanding was when you said "unless they're -i" and I presumed you meant +i
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<MrZYX> Morrolan: how come you have over 750 of those?
<shevy> MrZYX sponsoring :D
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<MrZYX> ah, so it's spam
* MrZYX calls a freenode op
<popl> yes, spammed by clubs
<Morrolan> MrZYX: They see quite some use. And once all the little iron spikes have fallen out, I usually buy a new one. Due to all the associated memories I never throw the old ones away, however. :)
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<popl> at least the spamming clubs aren't made from spam.
<shevy> that reminds me of the monty python sketch about spam
<popl> of course it would. all you people are all alike with your "I think my parrot is dead" and your "huge tracts of land".
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<popl> there needs to be a tongue-in-cheek emoticon
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<Morrolan> :)
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<shevy> the holy grail was awesome
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<popl> I have a copy of Jabberwocky.
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<shevy> hmm
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<L8D> How can I reverse a hash that has numbers keys to strings
<eka> popl: old one?
<shevy> hmm
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<shevy> can you give example
<L8D> So that the resulting hash has strings to kets
<canton7> L8D, reverse in what sense?
<shevy> can you show input -> output, then we tell you which code does that
<popl> eka: what do you mean?
<L8D> {1 => "foo"} -> {"foo" => 1}
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<canton7> #invert iirc?
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<eka> popl: since it's a very old poem I thought that the relevance of your comment was that you had an old original one :)
<waxjar> what happens if you have two values that are the same?
<L8D> canton7: That's exactly what I'm looking for, thanks
<eka> ah the film
<eka> ok
<L8D> waxjar: what do you mean?
<popl> I thought it was infamous as a "bad film".
<canton7> L8D, always worth having a scan down the relevant ruby-doc page - http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-2.0/Hash.html
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<canton7> (google 'ruby hash' etc)
<L8D> canton7: I did. I guess I just didn't catch inverse
<canton7> cool
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<L8D> But I remeber there being a method to do it
<waxjar> L8D: { :one => "value", :two => "value" }. what's gonna be the value of the "value" key?
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<L8D> :two
<fryguy> maybe
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<L8D> according to the behaviour of #invert
<L8D> {1 => "a", 2 => 'a'}.invert #=> {'a' => 2}
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<L8D> {2 => "a", 1 => 'a'}.invert #=> {'a' => 1}
<waxjar> interesting
<L8D> It's due to the order that #each does
<fryguy> hashes aren't ordered though, so there isn't a guarantee
<L8D> Yeah, but it won't really matter in my case.
<canton7> they are in 1.9+
<havenwood> hashes are ordered now
<havenwood> 1.8 is dead, long live 2.0!
<L8D> I'm doing a hash like: {1 => 'one', 2 => 'two'}
<L8D> for conversion from int to word
<fryguy> are they ordered in rubinius and jruby too?
<L8D> nope
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<havenwood> fryguy: yes, in 1.9 mode
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<popl> that's funny because hashes in perl are not ordered now. it's like ruby and perl flip-flopped on that
<L8D> in rubinius 1.8, the behaivour seems to be completely random
<havenwood> 1.8 had unordered hashes
<popl> oh?
<popl> when did it switch havenwood?
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<havenwood> popl: 1.9
<popl> thank you
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<iboB> hey in 1.9.2 is there a way to initialize a module variable?
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<havenwood> iboB: an instance variable in the root scope
<iboB> yes
<iboB> like here if counter was an instance variable : http://ideone.com/ee9M0U
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<havenwood> iboB: Are you looking to include this module in a class?
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<iboB> havenwood: i want it to work both ways. Included in a class and included in main
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<Mattx> system('cat <(printf "%s#" 1 2 3)') --> sh: 1: Syntax error: "(" unexpected
<Mattx> what's the problem with this syntax?
<Mattx> (it should have printed "1#2#3")
<MrZYX> /bin/bash vs /bin/sh ? not sure about such specifics
<Mattx> actually system("echo $SHELL") says /bin/zsh
<Mattx> I don't know why the error starts with "sh:"
<MrZYX> man zsh says "Zsh tries to emulate sh or ksh when it is invoked as sh or ksh respectively;"
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<Mattx> hmn, so?
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<Mattx> you mean it doesn't support <(...) executed like that?
<Morrolan> sh doesn't support this syntax.
<MrZYX> that's my suspicion, I don't know it
<Morrolan> It's true.
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<Mattx> what do you do then?
<MrZYX> use ruby
<Morrolan> You use a different shell. Or Ruby. Or fix that command to work with sh.
<Morrolan> If this command is your actual usecase then yes, use Ruby. :P
<Mattx> use ruby? I can't
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<Mattx> I mean, I'm doing this so I don't have to create a file explicityle
<Morrolan> This command prints the resulting string to stdout, why would you need a file for this when doing it in Ruby?
<Senjai> Mattx: sorry, why exactly cant you use ruby
<Mattx> the real usecase is something like this: foo --input a_file_here
<MrZYX> I guess he needs to pipe something into whatever he runs and doesn't know popen
<Mattx> where a_file_here has the format "file 'a'\nfile 'b'\nfile 'etc'\n"
<Senjai> Mattx: Uhm, that is throwing a shell error, because ruby is using the shell to execute that code
<Mattx> but I don't want to create that file just to call foo :P
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<Senjai> Mattx: So you want to input sometghing else to the program
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<Mattx> yep
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<Senjai> Mattx: Why dont you just check ARGV and ARGF, and learn how to pipe to STDIN
<Senjai> echo "Hello" | ruby my_ruby_script
<Mattx> what? it's not the same problem
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<Mattx> I can't pipe like in "echo whatever | foo", the format is "foo --input file_here"
<Mattx> (where --input is mandatory)
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<sml0820> So I am a total ruby noob. I am trying to create a Bingo game for the command prompt in ruby - I type ruby bingo3.rb in my command line and nothing happens. Would anyone be willing to look at a gist of my game? or I am just doing something wrong on the command line?
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<MrZYX> nothing happens in as you're returned to your prompt or it's blocking your shell?
<MrZYX> (and sure, always gist away)
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<sml0820> Okay awesome, yeh it returns to the prompt
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<MrZYX> so you define a class but never make a new instance of it
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<sml0820> ah okay, so after the last end do I just put Bingo.new ?
<MrZYX> yes
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<MrZYX> you can save the return keywords in your draw_number method
<MrZYX> the last line of the when clause will be the return value of the case statement, and that will be the return value for the method (since it's the last statement in the method)
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<L8D> what was that language thing that auto-insterted `end` keywords based on indentation
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<MrZYX> python?
<L8D> lol
<L8D> I meant, a ruby symbiotic language
<sml0820> Ah okay so I can delete the return keywords in the case method?
<L8D> like how coffeescript is to javascript
<MrZYX> sml0820: yes
<L8D> but all it really did was auto-inserting of `end` keywords.
<MrZYX> sml0820: line 98 would be better written as 19.times do put_line end
<MrZYX> also consistently use def foo(bar) or def foo bar
<sml0820> MrZYX: Okay I see, I tried to load it up and it kind of works. No numbers are going on the bingo board
<sml0820> I am not sure what is wrong with that method
<L8D> MrZYX: I like to not use the parens when defining an operator method like: def > other_object
<L8D> I think it looks much better than: def >(other_object)
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<MrZYX> I started to not use them at all anymore on method definitions
<L8D> the parens?
<MrZYX> yes
<L8D> yeah;.
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<L8D> I only use them so they don't get arrested by rubocop
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<MrZYX> sml0820: @columns is a constant, define it as such, same for a couple others probably
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<MrZYX> you can pass multiple values to a when to remove duplication, for example in ask_to_play_again: when "y", "yes" then ...
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<L8D> how do surpress warnings for irb?
<MrZYX> sml0820: times_in_column can be rewritten as arr.count { |i| @places[i] == item }
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<L8D> -W=0 does nothing
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<sml0820> MrZYX: okay thank you, can you see anything wrong with my block around line 66. for some reason its not generating any numbers
<MrZYX> oh, I think you got @places << @bingo_cards backwards
<MrZYX> actually that doesn't make any sense
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<MrZYX> try writing p @places in line 71 and you'll see why
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<sml0820> MrZYX: hmm I see - its generating the numbers, just not in the appropriate spot. I am not sure how to fix this to be honest
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<sml0820> d2=>" ", :d3=>" ", :d4=>" ", :d5=>" ", :e1=>" ", :e2=>" ", :e3=>" ", :e4=>" ", :e5=>" ", 0=>0, 1=>6, 2=>12, 3=>8, 4=>4, 5=>5, 6=>30, 7=>29, 8=>18, 9=>23, 10=>27, 11=>22, 12=>22, 13=>"X", 14=>27,
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<MrZYX> get an array of all your keys and iterate over that instead of over 25.times
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<sml0820> okay so I should type out @places_keys = [:a1, :a2, etc] then @places_keys do |n| @places[n] = draw number (n) ?
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<MrZYX> basically
<MrZYX> except that @places_keys is a constant again
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<sml0820> okay, so instead of @places_keys what should I use?
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<MrZYX> class Bingo
<MrZYX> PLACES_KEYS = %i(a1 a2 a3 ....)
<MrZYX> %i is a shortcut to define an array of symbols, new in ruby 2.0
<shevy> cool
<sml0820> hmm i might be using 1.9.3
<popl> sugar sugar
<L8D> what's the difference between %w and %W ?
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<MrZYX> the same as vs ' and "
<MrZYX> one allows #{} interpolation, the other doesn't
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<L8D> oh i see
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<MrZYX> the uppercase variants allow it
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<MrZYX> %Q, %W, %I
<L8D> They also allow for string things
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<L8D> like %w{foo bar "baz"} #=> ["foo", "bar", "\"baz\""]
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<L8D> and %W{foo bar "baz"} #=> ['foo', 'bar', 'baz']
<MrZYX> >> %W{foo bar "baz"}
<eval-in> MrZYX => ["foo", "bar", "\"baz\""] (https://eval.in/43674)
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<sml0820> MrZYX: I updated line 81, but that method isn't working. Now that it is an array I am not sure how to do a case statement for it
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<MrZYX> do @places_keys.each_with_index |key, n|
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<sml0820> MrZYX: okay thank you. and if i use that should it be when @places_keys[1..5] or when 1..5?
<sml0820> ah maybe n = 1..5
<MrZYX> huh?
<MrZYX> 1...5 of course
<MrZYX> n would be a number again
<sml0820> I see, thank you
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<sml0820> MrZYX: one last question! in the block on line 156,@user = X, so it should replace X when the number is called. However, its not replacing the number with X. Can you see what is wrong with that block?
<sml0820> I can't figure it out, although I don't think i should have @ places twice
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<MrZYX> do a p i inside
<MrZYX> Hash#each doesn't yield what you think it does
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<MrZYX> the outer loop is useless btw, you just do the same operation @bingo_cards.size times
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<MrZYX> also start naming your local variables after (what you think) they mean, not n, x and i
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<sml0820> MrZYX: okay thank you - i printed it and it yields [:a1, 0]. So should i change it @places[i] = @user if @places[i] == random to @places[i[0]] = @user if @places[i[0]] == random?
<MrZYX> no
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<MrZYX> decompose the array in the block arguments: @places.each do |place, value|
<MrZYX> yet better learn to use Enumberable: place = @places.find {|place, value| value == random}.first; @places[place] = @user
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<apeiros> shevy: yes, I do
<sml0820> MrZYX: thanky ou, still does not replace it with X when the random number comes up. I am not sure why
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<apeiros> makes it easier as I can write `private` only once
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<sml0820> MrZYX: Got it to work, thank you for all your help
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<minsa> will my gem install interfere with debian apt installs ?
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<shevy> minsa probably
<shevy> in general you should decide whether you wish to remain in the debian way to solve things, or whether you want to abandon it
<shevy> (in regards to ruby that is)
<shevy> debian changes some paths of gems
<shevy> my rubygems seem to use /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.9.1 but I think debian has some pathing under /var too, look at output of "gem env" I think
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<wtf_gsub> does anyone have any idea why I'm getting this strange gsub behavior? https://gist.github.com/CLUSTERfoo/6258984
<pontiki> asked in #rubyonrails too
<wtf_gsub> yes, sorry is it not allowed?
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* platzhirsch pokes pontiki
<pontiki> it's annoying to cross post and not tell anyone
<platzhirsch> I don't think so
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<pontiki> ok
<pontiki> it annoys me
<pontiki> there
<pontiki> happy?
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<platzhirsch> Well, I would rather call it content
<apeiros> platzhirsch: it's easy to say "I don't care about it" if you haven't helped anybody yet.
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<apeiros> and by not helping never ran into a situation where you wasted your time due to some douchebag just abandoning places where he/she asked questions
<wtf_gsub> ok sorry.
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<platzhirsch> apeiros: okay, but that's a general attitude I did also some cross posting, but often I write then that the problem is solved or what solved it. I would make too many implications on that behavior
<platzhirsch> wouldn't*
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<apeiros> platzhirsch: experience shows that almost all cross-posters share that attitude.
<apeiros> in the last 10 years, I've seen it like 2 times that somebody actually bothered to inform other channels.
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<platzhirsch> Well, I guess you are right. But although I probably haven't giving as near as much support answers and haven't faced that behavior, I find it startling to call it time waste
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<pontiki> ask yourself, then, how many times you need to be annoyed to decide it's not worth helping people who do that?
<pontiki> or, not that, any particulary thing you find annoying?
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<apeiros> also ask yourself whether it should or shouldn't be expected that if you get free help and valuable time from others, you show some basic decency.
<platzhirsch> If it occurs too often I would be pissed off, too ;)
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<shevy> a problem should be simple
<apeiros> shevy: "should"
<apeiros> if they were, people wouldn't end up asking here
<shevy> ah sometimes there are newbie questions, I like these the most
<apeiros> and some of them are indeed more than a mere 1s thought to answer. I've had questions where I helped for a good hour.
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<platzhirsch> not necessarily, sometimes it's not Q&A, but discuss questions. That's especially a point why I find cross-posting sometimes valuable
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<apeiros> nobody forbids you to cross-post
<platzhirsch> apeiros: okay, but would you say in these cases, that you did what you did because you truly wanted to help that person or because you had fun figuring out the problem in a collaborative way?
<apeiros> but have the basic decency to declare that fact
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<apeiros> platzhirsch: the world ain't black & white
<apeiros> I enjoy helping people as much as I enjoy solving riddles or passing on my knowledge.
<apeiros> but I'm pissed off if I'm being used.
<platzhirsch> both is always an answer, too :)
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<platzhirsch> In a world of such good things as other people helping other there is always those who exploit that for their own use, but what can you do?
<apeiros> easy
<platzhirsch> besides objecting if someone cross-posts...ah here we go
<apeiros> I kick & ban
<platzhirsch> lol
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<platzhirsch> so much negativity
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<apeiros> yes. utopia is still a far reach.
<apeiros> anyway, IMO and IME negativity in this channel diminishes compared to the positivity and the help.
<apeiros> and maybe one reason is because sometimes inacceptable behavior is being acted upon.
<platzhirsch> apeiros: oh yes, I have been in some channels which had really bad vibe. #ruby is really an enjoyable place
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<apeiros> pillow time
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<apeiros> gn8 @ all, and be nice to each other :-p
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<platzhirsch> Ostrich Pillow
<platzhirsch> n8 ;)
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<apeiros> actually "down-filled headrest cushion"
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<apeiros> (wtf? why is the english word for "daunenkissen" so complicated?)
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<platzhirsch> haha
<platzhirsch> yes, I faced that today as I wanted to know what's Wellblechdach in English
<apeiros> does "ostrich pillow" have a meaning?
<platzhirsch> it's a product
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<apeiros> ah, lol
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<apeiros> googled it and seen pics
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<Spooner> 80 euros? I could just use a pillow and some gaffer tape :)
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<Wildhoney> Anybody familiar with EventMachine, could you please take a look at: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18294071/using-websockets-with-em-and-irc-to-send-connection-successful-message
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<shevy> I like the word Wellblechdach
<shevy> and Daunenkissen is sweet
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<thecodethinker> Is there a way to get static variables in modules?
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<Nilium> Static variables?
<thecodethinker> yeah
<Nilium> What's a static variable mean to you?
<thecodethinker> if I have a module Tween with a static var tween_values
<thecodethinker> I want to be able to call something like Tween.tween_values
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<Nilium> >> Module A ; class <<self ; attr_accessor :b ; end ; end ; A.b = 5 ; A.b
<eval-in> Nilium => /tmp/execpad-a3e6e0c7fa30/source-a3e6e0c7fa30:3: syntax error, unexpected keyword_rescue, expecting end-of-input ... (https://eval.in/43675)
<Nilium> Hm, where's I miss something..
<Nilium> >> module A ; class <<self ; attr_accessor :b ; end ; end ; A.b = 5 ; A.b
<eval-in> Nilium => 5 (https://eval.in/43676)
<Nilium> Curse you, auto-shift-finger.
<thecodethinker> There is a repl bot in here>
<thecodethinker> ?