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<poincare101>
Hi. Can someone look over some rails code I've started to write recently? I've never really been sure of some elements of my ability - a review would be great. It isn't very much code at all, but it is coming together, here it on Github: https://github.com/Poincare/Mailings
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<n_blownapart>
Hi if line 15 is in or out, either way this won't pass. the book has it out. can anyone see anything wrong with this text? thanks: http://pastie.org/8159945
<n_blownapart>
*test
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<bnagy>
n_blownapart: #rubyonrails
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<n_blownapart>
bnagy: shit sorry
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<n_blownapart>
hi bnagy general question: when you program in pure ruby do you use English syntax testing at all in line with rspec, cucumber or the like? thanks
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<bnagy>
no, I don't use any of the testing frameworks
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<bnagy>
but afaict I am unusual in that regard
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<n_blownapart>
bnagy: thanks I really dislike using the English-like tests.
<r0bgleeson>
bnagy: you don't test?
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<bnagy>
I test, I just don't use a framework
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<bnagy>
and tbh I probably don't test as much as I should :P
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<r0bgleeson>
bnagy: yeah i just use test-unit in personal projects, but at $work i use rspec. its matchers are cool, you don't need to write much text strings anymore because the matchers can speak themselves.
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<n_blownapart>
r0bgleeson: I went to a meetup for rails and the speaker didn't like using the English syntax tests and used something called Poltergeist and PhantomJS for Capybara. A bit over my head but cool.
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<bnagy>
that has a nice DSL, but I am finding celerity better for 'real' work
<bnagy>
faster, more stable, no external dependency
<r0bgleeson>
n_blownapart: yeah, people use PhantonJS + cabybara + cucumber in Rails.
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<bnagy>
but that's not testing work, just web automation stuff. scraping and such
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<n_blownapart>
r0bgleeson: bnagy celerity got it. what's scraping?
<r0bgleeson>
its the prostitute of data mining.
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<r0bgleeson>
some might call it stealing data =P
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<iliketurtles>
Anyone have a good way to create a block that allows me to iterate over all possible combinations of a string in keysize lengths? IE. for the string "abcdef", i'd want pairs of [ab, cd] [ab, ef] [ab, gh] [cd ef] [cd gh] [ef gh]
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<n_blownapart>
r0bgleeson: I'm overwhelmed with the length and complexity of rspec tests. but I just started with it.
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<bnagy>
or at least say you're doing so, it annoys people
<iliketurtles>
why are there two channels
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<bnagy>
long story
<iliketurtles>
haha
<iliketurtles>
no worries
<iliketurtles>
i wont do it in the future
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<iliketurtles>
bnagy: not quite, i'd want them as pairs; so for "abcdef i want: ["ab", "cd"] ["ab", "ef"] ["cd", "ef"]
<bnagy>
I don't see how your second pair is constructed
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<iliketurtles>
say keysize = 2
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<iliketurtles>
i want every combination of 2 chars in the string. AB CD EF. So AB against all remaining 2 char blocks, CD, EF. then move to CD. Against EF.
<bnagy>
don't need to_a in the middle, I was moving stuff around
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<iliketurtles>
shorter, not sure if its faster though
<bnagy>
each_slice(2) is prettier
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<bnagy>
but yeah the regexp is shorter :/
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<Kelet>
iliketurtles, Instead of doing .to_a at the end, you can assign the output value to a variable and do var.next or var.take(3) and it will save you computation if you're only using part of it
* Kelet
shrugs
<bnagy>
or #each it etc
<iliketurtles>
Kelet: I'm running a method on them, so like "ab".method "cd", "ab".method "fg", and so on
<Kelet>
Lewix, What am I missing? Eigenclasses or something weird?
<bnagy>
and what kind of work are you most likely to do?
* Kelet
has only started writing Ruby in the past few months so I'm not a guru
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<Lewix>
Kelet: same here
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<Kelet>
Mostly I just like "Hello".length rather than len("Hello") and such
<Lewix>
() is not an object
<Kelet>
It's not really technicality-based
<Kelet>
My opinion, that is
<Kelet>
If a language is OO I don't see why you'd do something like len("Hello") although I'm sure there's a well-reasoned explanation
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<bnagy>
probably not
<Lewix>
Kelet: well you have Float(number)
<bnagy>
probably guido just screams BECAUSE THAT'S HOW IT IS at you
<bnagy>
Float(num) is completely different
<Kelet>
My idea on Ruby vs Python is that I like the Ruby language more, but Python has more resources available. SciPy and NumPy are great, and PyGame is nice and there's no Ruby equivalent really. We don't really have too much like PIL either, which sucks.
<bnagy>
it's an object constructor, it's perfectly OO
<Lewix>
bnagy: 20:33 Kelet: If a language is OO I don't see why you'd do something like len("Hello") although I'm sure there's a well-reasoned explanation
<bnagy>
Lewix: yeah, but they're not remotely related
<Kelet>
As long as to_f exists, I'm cool with alternative ways
<bnagy>
apart from the fact that they both contain parentheses
<Lewix>
bnagy: you could have a method to do the same thing they chose a different approach
<wisconsin>
ok then..
<bnagy>
Lewix: Float(n) builds a float or raises
<Kelet>
wisconsin, I read about it, that it was a nice framework to use on HN or Reddit earlier today
<Kelet>
but I haven't used it
<bnagy>
num.to_f won't raise
<Lewix>
bnagy: I know it's different from to_s, I was again answering to that 0:33 Kelet: If a language is OO I don't see why you'd do something like len("Hello") although I'm sure there's a well-reasoned explanation
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<bnagy>
Lewix: yeah, and as I said, it's not even vaguely related
<Lewix>
Float(number) could have been number.to_f for that matter
<Lewix>
and vice versa
<bnagy>
no, it couldn't, because they do different things
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<bnagy>
whereas .length is a fundamental method of things like strings
<bnagy>
and having what's effectively an operator ( len ) for it is anti-OO
<Lewix>
I disagree
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<bnagy>
... that's it's anti OO? Go on?
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<wisconsin>
len(x) calls x.__len__
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<bnagy>
which begs the question why you wouldn't just use a method that's there on the object
<bnagy>
being all OO and stuff
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<bnagy>
but whether or not you len(x) is useful or syntactically attractive may be open for debate, whether it's more or less OO than x.len is not
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<wisconsin>
oo requires a particular syntax?
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<bnagy>
yes, because that's what I just said
<wisconsin>
why?
<wisconsin>
it's still a virtual method dispatch
<wisconsin>
so python has inconsistent syntax for that
<bnagy>
via some magic len thing in the sky. You're not directly sending the method to the object
<wisconsin>
but saying it's not oo is just silly
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<bnagy>
I'm saying it's less OO. It's a less consistent object model
<wisconsin>
it's not a less consistent object model
<wisconsin>
it's just another syntax to call __len__ on an object
<r0bgleeson>
wisconsin: it isn't OO, though, it's a function call. it has no receiver, the argument is the receiver.
<r0bgleeson>
i'm not saying python doesn't have OO, but len() most certainly is not.
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<Lewix>
bnagy: Kelet: If a language is OO I don't see why you'd do something like len("Hello") although I'm sure there's a well-reasoned explanation, after that I pointed to Float as an example, and you said it's not relevant because it's different. How is it different
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<bnagy>
Lewix: as I said twice, because a length method is something a string fundamentally needs
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<bnagy>
whereas Float(n) is an object constructor
<Lewix>
bnagy: it's not the point. so according to you i could create own method that are not fundamental need and use the syntax my_length()
<Lewix>
I disagree
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<wisconsin>
bnagy: is String#to_f an object constructor?
<r0bgleeson>
wisconsin: and it is not syntax, if the syntax for calling a method on a object were method(obj), that'd be OO, the point is it's not a method call.
<bnagy>
no, it's a method on String
<wisconsin>
r0bgleeson: python has two syntaxes for calling __len__
<bnagy>
Lewix: you're not making any sense
<wisconsin>
r0bgleeson: len(x) and x.__len__
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<r0bgleeson>
wisconsin: its not syntax
<r0bgleeson>
its a function call
<r0bgleeson>
it might call __len__
<bnagy>
if it were syntax you could call blah(obj) on any object that responds to blah
<r0bgleeson>
but len() is not OO
<Lewix>
but Float() is
<Lewix>
wow
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<wisconsin>
bnagy: yes, python is inconsistent there
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<r0bgleeson>
Lewix: Float is a constructor.
<wisconsin>
len is a special case
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<r0bgleeson>
Lewix: len() returns the size of a string
<r0bgleeson>
very different
<Lewix>
no Float is a special case
<r0bgleeson>
why is it special?
<r0bgleeson>
it's just def Float(); end
<wisconsin>
why does ruby have Float() and String#to_f
<Lewix>
because it's a method that begin with a capital F
<bnagy>
because they're different
<wisconsin>
i know the behavior is different
<wisconsin>
but they both return a float
<bnagy>
so.. because we want to have both behaviours
<wisconsin>
and start with a string..
<r0bgleeson>
Lewix: i dont see your point, yeah it is a toplevel-method.
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<wisconsin>
so why isn't Float() a method String#to_f!
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<bnagy>
bang methods would be destructive normally
<wisconsin>
"123".to_f! # => 123
<bnagy>
I agree it could be str.to_f(true) or something for strict
<wisconsin>
"fail".to_f! # => exception
<r0bgleeson>
well, ! means "be careful"
<r0bgleeson>
so I could live with .to_f!
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<bnagy>
but the strict constructors are a general approach, and they work on more than just strings
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<wisconsin>
bnagy: so you'd have Fixnum#to_f! too then
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<wisconsin>
that'd be oo right?
<Lewix>
r0bgleeson: it's a special case because it could have been a regular method, they approached it differently because it turns a string into a floating point number. However, it's still a breach of ruby convention
<r0bgleeson>
Lewix: what isn't regular about it?
<r0bgleeson>
it's just a method
<Lewix>
to_i, to_s, to_f, to_a
<Lewix>
and then Float()
<r0bgleeson>
it's not just Float()
<r0bgleeson>
there's many more
<Lewix>
i know
<r0bgleeson>
and it has different semantics
<r0bgleeson>
it raises
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<Lewix>
anyways let's agree to disagree
<Lewix>
It's not going anywhere
<r0bgleeson>
its just a discussion
<r0bgleeson>
it doesnt have to go anywhere
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<Lewix>
r0bgleeson: basically all I'm saying is Integer and Float could have been to_integer to_float, they decided otherwise. And it does not mean that the language is any less OO. Again I was mostly referring to that statement If a language is OO I don't see why you'd do something like len("Hello") although I'm sure there's a well-reasoned explanation
<r0bgleeson>
len() is probably just legacy.
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<wisconsin>
"The major reason is history."
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<RubyPanther>
wisconsin: Float() isn't #to_f! because originally ! meant "changes receiver," it was only after rails used it mean "dangerous" that Matz agreed since that was less surprising
<RubyPanther>
so yeah, "historical reasons"
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<hesco>
I'm having trouble installing the gist gem. trace is pasted at link above.
<hesco>
Can anyone here please offer some guidance?
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<bnagy>
hesco: you sppear to be missing build tools
<bnagy>
install whatever your distro's relevant package is and give it another shot?
<hesco>
thanks, looking for that now
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<bnagy>
on debian it would be build-essential
<hesco>
I'm guessing this is NOT what you are suggesting I look for:
<hesco>
gtk2hs-buildtools - Tools to build the Gtk2Hs suite of User Interface libraries
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<bnagy>
what's your distro?
<hesco>
debian
<hesco>
perhaps this one? ruby-pkg-tools ???
<bnagy>
if it's debian then sudo apt-get build-essential
<bnagy>
it's nothing to do with ruby - you're missing mkmf
<bnagy>
apt-get install*
<hesco>
I already have build-essential. added that for another dependency
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<hesco>
perhaps this one? ruby-mkrf ///
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<hesco>
testing that one now
<bnagy>
no it's not that
<hesco>
failed with same error
<bnagy>
are you using an OS package for ruby?
<bnagy>
I think maybe you got a non dev ruby
<hesco>
I'll bet i have the ruby provided by the puppet labs repos
<bnagy>
if you installed ruby via apt / aptitude whatever, try installing the same with -dev
<hesco>
ok, trying that now
<bnagy>
ruby-dev for ruby1.9.1-dev etc
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<hesco>
and that worked. thanks.
<bnagy>
cool
<bnagy>
sorry, I read your error wrong at first
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<hesco>
np, I appreciate the help.
<hesco>
that one would have stopped me all night otherwise.
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<hesco>
is rdoc the ruby equivalent of perl's perldoc?
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<bnagy>
maybe?
<bnagy>
it's the documentation system
<bnagy>
you don't 'need' it per se
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<bnagy>
tbh I never use it, I just browse the docs in the web (ruby-doc.org)
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<hesco>
do you know HOW to use it? I tried rdoc gist and all it did was rebuild documentation for every installed class at cwd.
<bnagy>
ri String
<hesco>
would love to be able to use it, now that my puppet manifest is installing it on all my machines
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<hesco>
`ri path ` gets me nothing but: "Nothing known about .path"
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<bnagy>
cause path isn't a thing
<Nilium>
Alrighty, got unions working.
<Nilium>
I should probably stop working on this now.
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<bnagy>
unions?
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<Nilium>
bnagy: Was working on a gem for doing c-struct like stuff and got bored and added unions to it.
<hesco>
looks like rdoc build an html representation of my entire application specific perl libraries. As if it descended recursively from cwd and extracted the perldoc from everything I have installed here.
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<Nilium>
There are a couple flaws with it -- namely that you can do some wonky things by providing a specific alignment for a union as opposed to the default alignment, but nothing too weird.
<L8D_>
How should I implement a function that recursively converts hashes to openstruct inside openstructs?
<Nilium>
I should probably just not allow struct/union-level alignment.
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<bnagy>
Nilium: how is it different from what's in FFI or swig?
<bnagy>
like is it for wrapping existing structs, or some other thing?
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<Nilium>
Not sure about swig because I won't touch it
<Nilium>
As for FFI, also not sure.
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<Nilium>
From the looks of it, Fiddle's structs are a little more limited in terms of what you can define as a member of a struct and the attributes of the members.
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<bnagy>
but what's the overall idea? What's your thing actually for, like where would I use it?
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<Nilium>
bnagy: I wrote it for doing interleaved vertex data in GL.
<Nilium>
If you wanted fairly well-defined C structs in ruby for FFI purposes, it would also work fairly well, but the main goal was just to give me a way to keep vertex data in memory before buffering it to a GL buffer object
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<bnagy>
ok then I think you should definitely check FFI
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<Nilium>
FFI or Fiddle or something else in the FFI area?
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<Nilium>
Either way, the gem already works for me, so I don't really see any reason to use something else.
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<bnagy>
just FFI, I dunno what Fiddle is
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<bnagy>
structs are only a tiny part of it, so it's not worth using if you're not actually FFI'ing stuff
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<bnagy>
oh wow, that looks ancient
<bnagy>
DLOpen!
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<Nilium>
Fiddle is the libffi stuff in Ruby 2.x
<Kelet>
All I know is that DL is deprecated, please use Fiddle
<Nilium>
I'm not sure off the top of my head if it's also in 1.9.x since I don't use it, but that's not really important.
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<bnagy>
I have never heard of this thing
<bnagy>
is this some rails crap?
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<Nilium>
No. It's part of the Ruby standard library.
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<bnagy>
yeah I'm looking, but it's _awful_
<Nilium>
It's fairly simple, which is sufficient for most purposes.
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<bnagy>
wow. projects use this??
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<bnagy>
only railsy stuff, apparently
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<Nilium>
I've never used Rails, so I couldn't tell you as far as that goes.
<Nilium>
Cat makin' noises somewhere in the house
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<Nilium>
And now she's on the desk.
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<Nilium>
This ffi gem looks like several pounds of overkill.
<bnagy>
depends what you're wrapping I guess
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<bnagy>
it's the most commonly used though
<Nilium>
It's not the most commonly distributed, though.
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<Nilium>
Kind of hard to beat "it's in the standard library"
<bnagy>
lots of stuff is in stdlib
<bnagy>
doesn't make it less crap
<Nilium>
That doesn't make ruby-ffi less overkill.
<Nilium>
Fiddle does one thing very simply, so I'm not sure what your actual argument against it is.
<bnagy>
it's old, nobody uses it, the structure handling looks kind of shitty
<bnagy>
it appears to barely support windows
<Nilium>
Uh, how is it old?
<Nilium>
Also, how is old bad?
<bnagy>
based on the github repo, which says it pulled stuff in from SVN two years ago
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<bnagy>
anyway, you use what you want
<Nilium>
I don't care about Fiddle's structure handling because I don't use Fiddle's structure handling.
<Nilium>
I use it for loading libraries and getting functions.
<bnagy>
I'm just saying that everybody uses FFI
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<Nilium>
Clearly 'everybody' is incorrect here.
<bnagy>
you're right - apparently some people use it and then have to reinvent the wheel and write their own struct gem
<bnagy>
carry on
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<Kelet>
Every time you start IRB/Pry on Windows you get a DL is deprecated please use fiddle message with Ruby 2.0
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<Kelet>
and I'm guessing Fiddle doesn't support Windows very well
<Nilium>
Might not. Not really important if it does.
<Kelet>
Dunno it would probably be nice to have an irb that works well on Windows currently there are debilitating bugs for some setups related to the use of DL afaik
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<bnagy>
Kelet: use jruby
<Kelet>
Particularly unless you disable readline support backspace doesn't work
<Nilium>
No, I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to have a working irb, just that I don't care about Windows support for my purposes.
<Kelet>
In some situations anyway
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<Kelet>
bnagy, A lot of my code uses 2.0.0 features and JRuby supports 1.8.7 and 1.9.3 according to the webpage, so I guess I'd need multiple versions just to have a sane irb
<Kelet>
I think I'll just deal
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<bnagy>
I think the 2.0 support is pretty much done, they just aren't shipping it turned on by default
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<bnagy>
I don't use any 2.0 stuff yet :)
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<bnagy>
tbh the 32 bit rubyinstaller is probably fine for most people anyway
<Nilium>
I'm still miffed about jruby not supporting the C API.
<bnagy>
some cexts work, but personally I think it's the right decision
<bnagy>
forces people to move to FFI wrappers
<Nilium>
I think it's fine if they want to isolate themselves, which is fair enough, but I don't think you're going to see a lot of people giving up C extensions.
<bnagy>
and saves gigantic amounts of internal pain
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<bnagy>
I guess it's a tradeoff
<Nilium>
It's probably a good one for them
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<bnagy>
you get better performance, parallelism, memory management and access to all of java ( fwiw )
<bnagy>
you don't get cexts
<bnagy>
oh and you get crossplatform, if you need that
<bnagy>
which I do, sadly
<Nilium>
Agreed on parallelism and performance, since JIT is going to obviously beat an interpreter
<bnagy>
well MRI is a vm as well
<Nilium>
The downside for me is that all of Java's not really much of a perk, especially when all the libraries I use for game dev. are C.
<bnagy>
it's just not as good
<bnagy>
yeah definitely NOT a good choice for game dev :)
<bnagy>
"I'll write my game in Java!" ~ noone, ever
<Nilium>
Well, C and C++, though I try to stick to the C ones because getting C++ to play nice with other things is really, really unpleasant
<Nilium>
Eh, there are games where Java's worked out alright, but I think it's not really a great choice since you'll end up implementing a lot more stuff yourself (like me and structs)
<Nilium>
I'm also not sure what current GL support is like, but it's probably fine
<bnagy>
I'm always amazed when I see people doing game stuff in ruby instead of python tbh
<Nilium>
It was basically downright awful in Ruby for a long time.
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<Nilium>
Python's fine but the problem is that the only GL bindings I've found for it decided they were OK with 3x worse performance just to make the API more python-y
<Nilium>
Which I wasn't really okay with
<bnagy>
heh
<Nilium>
I'm also pretty sure 3x was charitable.
<Nilium>
It'd be easy enough to do your own GL bindings though, so it's not a huge issue. Just not something I wanted to do, since I was more interested in just seeing if I could get it working in Ruby.
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<Spooner>
Nilium, Not interested in pysdl2? Avoids all the OpenGL entirely (and since it does more of the GL in C, should even be faster than doing it yourself).
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<Nilium>
Spooner: How is avoiding GL a good thing? O_o
<Nilium>
Kind of need it for rendition.
<Spooner>
Because 50 calls to GL from Python will be slower than 3 calls to pySDL.
<Kelet>
Avoiding GL as in having a layer of abstraction on top of it. Similar to how I want to avoid Win32 API and use something higher level.
<Kelet>
It doesn't have much worth unless you truly need to fine tune it (and even then you can just call OpenGL/Win32 from your abstraction layer respectively)
<Nilium>
50 calls to GL from Python does not necessarily need to be slower than 3 calls to pySDL
<Spooner>
You can use GL inside SDL2 quite happily.
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<Nilium>
Nor do I think 3 calls to pySDL, depending on what you're doing, is going to adequately replace 50 in GL.
<Spooner>
Well, it really depends what you are trying to do.
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<Nilium>
I'm not sure what PySDL2 does out of the box, but I can't really tell what you expect I'm actually doing with GL
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<Nilium>
From the looks of things, pysdl2 has nothing there for 3D and whatnot, which is kind of necessary.
<Spooner>
Well, I'm expecting a 2D game. 3D development in Ruby/Python doesn't sound such a great idea in general.
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<Nilium>
Which is why I'm trying to improve that.
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<Nilium>
That said, GL's still likely going to a lot faster than drawing in SDL, assuming SDL still does software 2D, and provided the GL bindings aren't garbage like Python's currently are
<Nilium>
*to be
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<Spooner>
No, SDL2 is keen on using OpenGL (I'm using it that way).
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<Nilium>
No, I know you can use SDL 2 with GL, the question is whether SDL's own drawing routines are implemented in software
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<Spooner>
Not sure what you mean by "drawing routines".
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<Nilium>
Or did SDL axe its old surface blitting stuff?
<Nilium>
*SDL 2
<Spooner>
Ah, yes, I'm using SDL_Texture (which is not like the old SDL_Surface). It is just an opengl texture wrapper.
<Nilium>
Again, I haven't kept up on SDL since 1.x and mainly 1.2.x, so I'm not sure how it's implemented in SDL @.
<Nilium>
*2
<Nilium>
Curse you, shift key.
<Spooner>
So I'm getting all 100% OpenGL rendering (and can add more raw OpenGL if I want, but I'm avoiding it unless I need to). Obviously, I'm all 2D
<Nilium>
So that's good, as long as it's actually using GL these days.
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<Nilium>
Still not something I'd really use, since I need to be able to work in 3D, but worth keeping in mind if I ever just want 2D stuff.
<Spooner>
In Ruby, I used Gosu (and made Ashton, which added more OpenGL powers, like shaders).
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<Spooner>
Yes, of course.
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<Nilium>
Guy I was talking to, who prompted the whole Ruby/GL (and GLFW 3) thing was using Gosu but apparently ran into some problems with Ruby 2.x
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<Nilium>
So I eventually got bored enough and wrote GLFW 3 bindings and my own GL bindings and a 3D math gem and so on and so forth, so hopefully GL is fairly usable now.
<Nilium>
It at least works for me, but that phrase isn't very useful since nobody else is trying to do anything with that stuff.
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<nso95>
Using ruby for game dev?
<Spooner>
Yeah, Gosu hasn't been sorted for 2.0 yet. Gosu is very much lowest common denominator though.
<Spooner>
In terms of trying to be compatible (and avoiding anything new :D).
<Nilium>
I've never touched it, so I have no idea how it works.
<Spooner>
It is excellent and very fast though.
<Nilium>
I'm the lord of reinvented wheels.
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<Spooner>
Someone was making Ogre bindings.
<Spooner>
*Ogre3D
<Nilium>
Never really liked Ogre. Always too big.
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<Spooner>
I've never used it. I stick to 2D
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<Nilium>
I'm just building my own engine.. again.. not actually sure how many times I've done that now.
<Spooner>
Yeah, classic behaviour of someone who doesn't want to face making games. Making game engines :D
<Nilium>
They get more complicated every time. Moving to the GL core profile kind of made it worse, in retrospect.
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<Nilium>
It's more that I build the engine and then a little game on top of it then when I want to do something new I start the process over.
<Nilium>
Most of said engines are very small things.
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<Spooner>
Fair enough.
<Nilium>
And sort of not really engines since they're just the bits of the game code that weren't tied too closely to the game.
<Spooner>
Yeah, not bloated, generic engines.
<Nilium>
Generic engines can't exist.
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<Nilium>
You can try to build little generic systems in them but they're usually not really generic either, and probably inextricable
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<elementz>
hi all. quick question since that's hard to google: what is the name of following construct, and what is it's use? <<| |>>
<matled>
elementz: with that amount of context it is hard to tell what construct you're talking about
<MrZYX>
do you have more context? this doesn't seem like valid ruby
<matled>
"a <<| |>> b" gives a syntax error :)
<Kelet>
I've seen ||= but never <<||>> lol
<matled>
even though that would be a fun new operator
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<CubicE>
Does Process.fork make sure children are killed when the parent process is killed?
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<zendeavor>
see Process.detach
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<zendeavor>
a roundabout answer
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<CubicE>
zendeavor: I'm waiting on the children, it's just that I might get killed before they're done running
<zendeavor>
to my knowledge, your OS should reap the children unless they've been disowned
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<Kelet>
^ If Ruby doesn't, any modern OS surely will
<zendeavor>
this *should* be the case but zombies happen anyway.
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<zendeavor>
i'm under the impression that ruby does its best unless you intentionally detach the child from the parent, effectively disowning it and expecting the child to operate under its own volition
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<nso95>
It should rape children?
<zendeavor>
that's inappropriate.
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<zendeavor>
hold your tongue, if your eyes can't read.
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<CubicE>
ruby -e 'fork {sleep 60}'
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<CubicE>
Seems to still run... although admittedly, it wasn't _killed_, it exited normally
<zendeavor>
wait on it and kill.
<CubicE>
ruby -e 'fork {sleep 60}; sleep 60' -- killed that, and it seems to have killed the child too. That's a relief
<zendeavor>
indeed
<zendeavor>
just don't sigkill
<zendeavor>
term and int always
<CubicE>
No, it just has to be ctrl+c killable
<zendeavor>
that's sigint
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<CubicE>
That's why I'm saying it's alright ;D
<zendeavor>
certainly.
<zendeavor>
signal 9 is pretty well guaranteed to leave you with a zombie
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* Kelet
definitely does not use killall -9 about 100 times a day :X
<zendeavor>
yeugh.
* Kelet
schedules a reboot for tonight
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<pmros>
what do you think about reactive programming on ruby?
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<zendeavor>
modern computers are reactive by nature already
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<zendeavor>
you mean a wholly different thing anyway
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<gyrto>
it turns out that libv8 requires python, so I want to get rid of it. When making bundle install, it insist in installing libv8, despite that the gem file now only has the default gems, which worked great before
<gyrto>
Im using windows
<gyrto>
gem uninstall libv8 wont work, since libv8 isn't installed
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<waxjar>
libv8 might be a dependency of one of your other gems
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<waxjar>
or it might be some Gemfile.lock weirdness
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<gyrto>
waxjar, congratulation, you've got that right! libv8 is in the Gemfile.lock file.
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<gyrto>
Now, why is it there? I removed some gems recently from the Gemfile and did a bundle install
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<gyrto>
so the Gemfile looks completly default
<MrZYX>
"default"
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<MrZYX>
which default?
<waxjar>
i think it just installs whatever's in Gemfile.lock if that file's present
<gyrto>
MrZYX: like the original gemfile you get with a new app
<MrZYX>
you know that rails isn't implicit in #ruby?
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<MrZYX>
so your question is: what gem that rails depends on depends on libv8? -> #RubyOnRails
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<MrZYX>
(Or just read the .lock)
<gyrto>
MrZYX, I think it's a gem/bundler issue.. rails works fine
<gyrto>
except that
<waxjar>
remove the Gemfile.lock, bundle install, report back :p
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<MrZYX>
still you assumed knowledge about rails in your questions, even suggested it's all bundler and ruby is used for (having "the default" Gemfile)
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<byprdct>
Can anyone point me to documentation that shows how to fill in a form with mechanize and random data?
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<xavier23>
zendeavor: Yes, the problem is - it doesn't work
<xavier23>
And the documentation is useless
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<illa>
star struck, stars stunk
<illa>
hello
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<zendeavor>
xavier23: that's a boldfaced lie.
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<zendeavor>
your code may not work, but that's because you fail to grok the documentation
<zendeavor>
you're probably throwing code-spaghetti at the wall and waiting for it to stick.
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<zendeavor>
i encourage you to stop writing and start learning; once you think you've grasped how to use the tools, try applying them to your problem instead of calling things useless
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<xavier23>
zendeavor: Do you have an anger management complex?
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<zendeavor>
i don't try to manage anger; if the mood strikes i will happily lash out
<zendeavor>
more often i just /ignore you for being a help vampire
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<xavier23>
what is the point in having an IRC channel if people don't use it?
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<xavier23>
anyway
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<xavier23>
feel free to ignore me . that is the great thing about internet chat rooms
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<zendeavor>
do the php folks spoonfeed you this kind of information?
<Mon_Ouie>
"it doesn't work" is as useful as saying "I have a problem". You're not stating said problem.
<zendeavor>
or did they politely show you to the documentation and await your humble reply?
<zendeavor>
Mon_Ouie: that would require admitting that he's Doing It Wrong™
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<zendeavor>
it's much easier to just blame the tool, just like it's the hammer's fault when you put a hole in the wall 2 inches to the side of your nail
<illa>
yah or back in the day when NES controllers always were messing up for me
<zendeavor>
of course, it's never your fault
<r0bgleeson>
xavier23: go use PHP then, it sounds like it requires the amount of effort you're willing to put in and/or your skillset.
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<zendeavor>
this seems enlightening http://is.gd/Yzjno4 but probably doesn't quite cut to the chase for you
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<zendeavor>
i'm just a docs explorer though
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<Mon_Ouie>
That's just for mathematical matrices though
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<zendeavor>
enlightening, but not directly helpful
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<illa>
thanks guys, im trying to complete some exercise.. and just trying to understand the best way to work with arrays.. or data structures I guess
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<illa>
but i think its too difficult so I might just go back to selling aspharagus by the road side
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<zendeavor>
what part is difficult
<zendeavor>
wrapping your head around the idea, or applying it
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<illa>
i can write it out on a piece of paper, like the flow of what i need to do.. so i guess applying it
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<Mon_Ouie>
output in your example is just an empty array
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<Mon_Ouie>
So output[0] is nil
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<zendeavor>
illa: that comes with practice then, so no big deal; when you're stuck or confused, pull out the pen and paper again and step through your code just like you would do to plan it out
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<illa>
so in my exercise I have an input list of words.. "input = [ 'cars', 'scar', 'orf', 'for' ]" basically I want to sort the list of words into an array for each anagram, so sort cars and scarm i get acrs, these two words should be in the same list.. so with the first word in the list cars, I would sort it, check the first element of every array, but there is none, so I create a new array amd insert cars as the first element, check the next work, insert it as the s
<illa>
econd element etc.
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<Nilium>
I think Programming Pearls covered a problem like that.
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<illa>
it's an exercise from a course on edx.org i where I got it
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<Nilium>
I'd recommend maybe reading Programming Pearls. Might give you some ideas about how to approach problems.
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<illa>
im looking on google.. its not a language speciifc book is it
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<illa>
or maybe im looking at the wrong one
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<Nilium>
Its example code is C and C++, but the contents of the book aren't really specific to a language.
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<Nilium>
That said, most programming problems aren't very specific to a language
<illa>
I have the Pragmatic Programmers Ruby 1.9.3 one...
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<PeterBoy>
I need help using class_eval
<illa>
I think I spent 3 hours on this problem because I was not aware of all the functionality when dealing with arrays.. such as group by
<PeterBoy>
can I use it like "class_eval some_code"?
<illa>
man i cant figure out what country pt is
<PeterBoy>
or do I have to call it like this: "Foo.class_eval..."
<Nilium>
Quoth the comment: "Rule #1 of Ruby programming: learn the methods of Enumerable. Rule #2: see Rule #1. :-)"
<illa>
hahaha
<illa>
Nilium
<PeterBoy>
pt is portugal
<Nilium>
Also, Array and String.
<illa>
I think ive read that comment 7 times today
<Nilium>
Because Array has some oddities that Enumerable doesn't which are useful, and String is obviously going to have yet more stuff you'll want to know.
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<Nilium>
PeterBoy: In what context would you be calling it like 'class_eval ...'?
<Nilium>
And what is some_code?
<havenwood>
hmm, would be kinda fun to make a gem that uses every new feature in Ruby 2.0
<Nilium>
Is it a block?
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<PeterBoy>
Nilium: It was given in a file
<PeterBoy>
I'll put a link
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<Nilium>
I'm not sure what that was in response to.
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<Nilium>
Can't you just say "the context is a class method on the thingy I'm calling eval on" or "an instance method of the thing" or "something entirely unrelated"
<PeterBoy>
it's supposed to create an array of value settings
<PeterBoy>
like foo.bar = 3, foo.bar = :tree
<PeterBoy>
and it would create an array with [3, :tree]
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<Nilium>
And what's stopping you?
<PeterBoy>
I don't know what to do with that class_eval line
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<Nilium>
Why's there have to be a class_eval line?
<Nilium>
What's the reasoning that got you to that point?
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<PeterBoy>
no reason...I thought that I needed to use that command since the file was given to me like that
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<kleinerdrache>
if I have an array with length of lets say 6 can i remove all but the first 2 ?
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<kleinerdrache>
or lets say is there a better way than a = a[0,a.index("foo")+1]
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<Nilium>
Well, I just implemented an accessor thing with history without class_eval, so I'm pretty sure it's doable sans that.
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<Nilium>
PeterBoy: So my advice would be to read over the Module documentation and see what can be done without class_eval.
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<PeterBoy>
:(
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<Nilium>
Should only require 18 to 20 lines for a rudimentary thing.
<Nilium>
It's incredibly simple.
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<PeterBoy>
how do I create a setter without defining a setter function?
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<MrZYX>
uhm, that's contradictory. A setter is a method (there are no functions in ruby :P)
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<PeterBoy>
I meant method :) I figured that out with attr_writer...
<MrZYX>
hm? attr_writer is just a shortcut, it does define a method
<PeterBoy>
can I create an array setter method with attr_writer?
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<MrZYX>
ruby doesn't do typechecks on method calls, you can pass it whatever value you want
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<PeterBoy>
I'm confused about something
<PeterBoy>
if I have "attr_reader attr_name+"_history", how do I access it?
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<MrZYX>
that defines a method with the name the_value_of_attr_name_history, which you can just call
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<MrZYX>
i. e. if attr_name is bacon: bacon_history
<MrZYX>
it returns the value of @the_value_of_attr_name_history, in our example @bacon_history
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<PeterBoy>
So I put attr_name+"history".push value?
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<PeterBoy>
for example if attr_name is "bacon"
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<PeterBoy>
then attr_reader = attr_name + "_history" = bacon_history
<PeterBoy>
attr_writer = ditto
<PeterBoy>
this inside a class method
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<MrZYX>
you only have a reader, if you want to use a method to set the the value, you need a setter (attr_writer), and can call it with public_send, or you can dynamically access hthe instance variable directly with instance_variable_set / instance_variable_get
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<PeterBoy>
I don't get it...
<PeterBoy>
for example foo.bar = 3
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<PeterBoy>
how do I access the 3 part?
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<MrZYX>
if there's also a getter defined, foo.bar. If there's no getter: @bar from the inside, instance_variable_get(:@bar) from the outside
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<PeterBoy>
maybe I explained wrong...
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<PeterBoy>
the variable are created dynamically
<PeterBoy>
it could be bar, tar, car
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<MrZYX>
then, as said, if there's a getter: name = "bar"; public_send(name), if there's none: name = "bar"; instance_variable_get("@"+name)
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<PeterBoy>
ok
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<PeterBoy>
and setting?
<PeterBoy>
public_set?
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<MrZYX>
if there's a setter: name = "bar"; public_send(name+"=", value); if there's none: name = "bar"; instance_variable_set("@"+name, value)
<MrZYX>
foo.bar = 3 is just syntax sugar for foo.bar=(3), that's a method call
<MrZYX>
and public_send calls a method, the name is given by the first argument, all other arguments are passed to the method
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<benzrf>
hey
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<benzrf>
I'm a big fan of Python; the one thing that bugs me about it is its terrible FP support. from what I've seen and heard about ruby, it has a great deal in common with Python but is better for FP.
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<benzrf>
so, I've decided to look into it, but I prefer to understand the languages I use at a deep leve
<benzrf>
where can I learn about ruby beyond the basics while also learning exactly how everything works? i.e. metaclasses, and what syntax is sugar for
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<benzrf>
pfft
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<TheNotary>
things are completely messed up right now. When I type "git *tab*" to get autocomplete, I see a weird message and stack crash http://pastebin.com/UC5YU0CG
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<TheNotary>
has anyone seen this before? I don't even know where to begin to fix this
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<matled>
TheNotary: my guess is that rvm hooks into your shell's tab completion but rvm is broken for some reason. you may try the rvm channel or the channel for your shell.
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<TheNotary>
oh, snap, that's right I was fiddling with RVM this morning
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<TheNotary>
thanks matled, I think an rvm implosion should fix things up for me
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<TheNotary>
matled, do you know how rvm is hooking git? I did rvm implode on this user, but git is still giving me weird autocomplete behavior
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<mjc_>
TheNotary: did you log out/back in?
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<zachrab>
not sure if this is a ruby on unix question however im trying to contribute to ruby gems
<zachrab>
and grepping for words is taking an eternity
<TheNotary>
mjc_: I got out of the bash terminal, which should have reset everything, right?
<zachrab>
how can i quickly navigate through the codebase
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<MrZYX>
ctags has rudimentary ruby support
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<havenwood>
zachrab: Using a text editor to navigate around is popular. Depends on your text editor if you went that way i suppose.
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<zachrab>
havenwood: I am trying to ween off sublime and use the terminal and native vim
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<havenwood>
zachrab: My vim-fu is unfortunately pretty weak but tags may be of interest: :help tags
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<zachrab>
havenwood: what is vim-fu? not sure what help tags is either?
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<havenwood>
zachrab: Oh, by 'vim-fu' i just meant my general abilities with vim. In vim, type `:help tags` for that help section.
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<zachrab>
havenwood: im not using vim to search for keywords im using the native unix grep command and searching through files
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<zachrab>
havenwood: using the native bash shell fgrep is taking forever on ruby gems
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<byprdct>
I'm trying to grab the values of a hash that's in an array but using rand e.g. data[rand].values but can't get it to get a random hash anyone see what Im doing wrong here
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<byprdct>
I can do data[0].values of course
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<byprdct>
and similar
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<zachrab>
byprdct: rand doesn't produce an integer
<byprdct>
shoot ok so Im twisted on this its random ZadYree_
<byprdct>
zachrab
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<zachrab>
byprdct: not sure i follow...
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<zachrab>
byprdct: whats ZadYree_?
<byprdct>
sorry I accidentially posted ZadYree_ name
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<CubicE>
Why does this work: results.sort! {|x,y| (x <=> y) * ((@mode.equal? :maximize) ? -1 : 1)} but this doesn't: results.sort! {|x,y| x <=> y * ((@mode.equal? :maximize) ? -1 : 1)}
<CubicE>
results is an array of floats, the latter throws argument error * negative something
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<CubicE>
Oh, and is there some builtin that slices an array into n parts, instead of into parts of size n (like Array#slice does)
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<CubicE>
*builtin as in standard library, of course
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<Lindrian>
Hey. Is it possible to use any delimiters you want for a regex pattern in ruby?
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<Nilium>
Lindrian: Within reason.
<Lindrian>
Nilium: @blah@.match() works just as well as /blah/.match() ?
<Nilium>
No.
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<Nilium>
To the best of my knowledge, the delimiters only apply if you're use the %r format regexp.
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<davidw>
hi, I have a Rails setup that uses bundler and rvm and 89 other layers of indirection (or not) and I'm trying to figure out how to call the same Ruby interpreter from /etc/aliases - but without the whole Rails environment loaded
<davidw>
Nilium, it's not a rails question, otherwise I would have asked it there.
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<Nilium>
So why'd you mention rails? O_o
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<davidw>
Nilium, I tend to find that leaving out stuff when asking for help can be a lot worse than accidentally including extraneous details
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<Nilium>
Good point.
<Nilium>
Just not sure if rails hijacks your normal ruby executable or what.
<davidw>
no, it doesn't... underneath, it's still Ruby
<davidw>
it's the bundler/rvm stuff that does weird things
<Nilium>
So if you want to start Ruby but without pulling in rails, couldn't you just do 'ruby'?
<davidw>
well, yes, that much works. Then I want to pull in a gem (require 'mail') and things fall apart
<davidw>
so the environment is different in some way
<Nilium>
ruby -rmail?
<waxjar>
have you installed the mail gem?
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<Nilium>
Well, that would also be an issue..
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<Nilium>
Does bundler not work with installed gems?
<Nilium>
I'm not familiar with it, so I have no idea how it affects things.
<Nilium>
Every time I hear about it, it just seems like it creates trouble for folks.
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<davidw>
waxjar, if I do everything on the command line... log in as the user, cd to the directory, launch irb, require 'mail' works ok
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<davidw>
if I just call the ruby interpreter with a script that does the same, things fail. Could be a users permissions problem...
<davidw>
Nilium, bundler and rvm are messy in some ways
<waxjar>
this is a script your run not from a shell?
<Nilium>
So if you write $: to stdout before requiring mail from the interpreter, what's that?
<davidw>
waxjar, the goal is to run it from postfix when I get email at specific email addresses
<Nilium>
I mean, is it the include path you expect?
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<waxjar>
i think you need to set a correct $PATH and whatever rvm normally does in .bash_profile/equivalents
<Nilium>
rvm hijacks a lot of stuff in the shell, so it's possible that launching it without going through bash is a problem, too
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<krainboltgreene>
Strange idea: Anyone know of a way to turn a gem into a single file?
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<CubicE>
krainboltgreene: zip
<krainboltgreene>
Single ruby file.
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<waxjar>
ah, i was gonna suggest gem build :P
<CubicE>
krainboltgreene: write a ruby file that writes the actual files
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<krainboltgreene>
Actually, can the .gem files be evaluated by ruby? Or are they something weird.
<CubicE>
krainboltgreene: .gem files have nothing to do with ruby
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<krainboltgreene>
Too bad.
<CubicE>
krainboltgreene: They're for gem
<waxjar>
CubicE: that'd make all require's spit LoadErrors
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<davidw>
hrm, looks like it's maybe a problem with users... thanks.... best to sleep on it
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<CubicE>
waxjar: what would?
<waxjar>
simply writing all files in a gem to a single file
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<CubicE>
waxjar: I had no idea what he was trying to do cause he didn't say, so I suggested he should write a ruby files that writes the files that'd normally be in the gem as a joke
<krainboltgreene>
Oh!
<krainboltgreene>
I can overwrite require and require_relative!
<krainboltgreene>
Instead of loading the files, it spits them out into a file.
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<CubicE>
krainboltgreene: They're just normal methods, so of course you can
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<CubicE>
krainboltgreene: I have no idea what you're trying to do or why, but have it your way
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<krainboltgreene>
I have a Ruby environment that doesn't have RubyGems.
<waxjar>
in general it sounds like a bad idea tho :P
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<krainboltgreene>
And there's desire to use gems, but they only have access to single ruby files.
<krainboltgreene>
I don't think that would work anyways, as require "ostruct" would become a problem.
<waxjar>
mruby?
<krainboltgreene>
No, RPG Maker.
<krainboltgreene>
I mean it uses it as embeddable ruby, but it's MRI 1.9.3 + some Windows APIs cooked in.
<CubicE>
krainboltgreene: which rpg maker
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<krainboltgreene>
CubicE: All of them, as far as I'm aware. But my SO got the latest which uses 1.9.3
<krainboltgreene>
As far as they tell me there's no gem support.
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<krainboltgreene>
If the ruby script files are saved to disk, however…Perhaps I can just dump the raw gem in that folder and have it automatically pick it up.
<krainboltgreene>
I'll have to inquire further.
<CubicE>
krainboltgreene: I'm pretty sure XP and VX use really old custom ruby interpreters
<krainboltgreene>
CubicE: The latest one uses 1.9.3 according to someone else on this channel a bit back.
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<CubicE>
krainboltgreene: You mean vx ace? That seems to be the case, yes
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<krainboltgreene>
CubicE: Yeah, that's the one.
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<CubicE>
krainboltgreene: I think XP and VX were 1.8.3 or something though
<krainboltgreene>
I've heard that as well.
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<CubicE>
In any case, I don't think attempting to use gems with rpg maker is a good idea
<krainboltgreene>
Looks like hub can do this to itself.
<krainboltgreene>
I'll have to rewrite the standalone script to work with general ruby gems though. Thanks for the help.
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<CubicE>
Oh, but apparently this works for rgss1 and 2
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<RubyPanther>
krainboltgreene: people basically never operate with a partial ruby (other than mruby) because people are mostly running a ruby out of their user space, and not from the OS/distro
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<RubyPanther>
You can always install Ruby because if the BOFH won't let you install compilers... you won't be allowed Ruby at all!
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<CubicE>
RubyPanther: He was talking about the RGSS used in RPG Maker
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<joelteon>
shame
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<IceDragon>
pride
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<MarcWeber>
Currently I'm using FFI::Library to accesss a .dll. Are some native bindings likely to be much faster?
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<alainus>
Where can I find info about config.ru and config.rb, and their purpose?
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<cmhobbs>
i'm building a library against an API and i'm using VCR to mock interactions. the API requires oauth credentials. what's the best way to handle mocking that out for other folks? just ship the cassettes with the repo and use a dummy account with anonymised credentials?
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