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<dreamhawk>
Anyone here knows how to install "custom_require.rb" ? :S
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<manveru>
dreamhawk: the who?
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<erikh>
dreamhawk: your rubygems is broken.
<erikh>
either that or you're not reading the stack traces from your requires in the proper order
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<erikh>
starting at the top, the first message is the actual error, and the rest of it is the trace of calls that got you to that point from the start of the program.
<erikh>
(which if the program is just starting and hit an invalid require, would almost purely be in rubygems)
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<judofyr>
steveklabnik: anyone using Shoes/HH these days?
<steveklabnik>
HH is still being used by a lot of people
<steveklabnik>
jMCg: yes
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<steveklabnik>
judofyr: at least one organization is actively using it to teach high school kids
<judofyr>
cool
<steveklabnik>
its further development is blocking on the shoes4 work
<jMCg>
steveklabnik: what is shoes?
<judofyr>
jMCg: look down at your feet :)
<imperator>
gui toolkit
<jMCg>
judofyr: I'm not wearing any.
<judofyr>
jMCg: but I'd say the web page explains it pretty well: "Shoes is a cross-platform toolkit for writing graphical apps easily and artfully using Ruby."
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* jMCg
doesn't do GUI…
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<imperator>
i only use motif because i'm old school
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<zzak>
imperator: is taht whole "implementation philosophy" attributed to your windows affiliation?
<steveklabnik>
ahahahah
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<imperator>
zzak, was that supposed to be a dig?
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<imperator>
"windows affiliation" - sounds like some sinister political thing
<elux>
hey guys
<imperator>
elux, howdy
<elux>
can the ->{ } shorthand have a block variable..? ->{|x| puts x } returns a syntax error..
<_tca>
->(x) { puts x }
<zzak>
imperator: <3
<elux>
sick. i love it. thanks
<imperator>
zzak, real answer: no connection
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<zzak>
imperator: no hard feelings, i was just making a stupid observation
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<imperator>
huh, rubygems 1.8.24 didn't make it into p286, wonder why not
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<andrewvos>
Time.now.strftime("%l") #=> " 5"
<andrewvos>
Erm, shouldn't that be "5"?
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<judofyr>
andrewvos: unfortunately, no
<andrewvos>
judofyr: Okay :(
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<andrewvos>
judofyr: You sound like you have a story to tell about it?
<judofyr>
andrewvos: I just have this comment in my code: # I wanted to use the %l pattern here, but it preceeds the number with a space.
<judofyr>
added it recently
<andrewvos>
Interesting
<andrewvos>
judofyr: - don't pad a numerical output.
<whitequark>
Sets the instance variable names by symbol to object, thereby frustrating the efforts of the class’s author to attempt to provide proper encapsulation. The variable did not have to exist prior to this call.
<whitequark>
erikh: was that you? :D
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<rue>
Wait, what, that’s the same. Wonder what I was thinking
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<erikh>
drbrain: if you're around; do you know off hand if bundler does anything retarded to Gem.find_files? e.g., do rdoc plugins still work with bundle exec ?
<drbrain>
erikh: I don't know if bundler does anything, but AFAIK rdoc plugins should still work
<erikh>
ok, that's what I suspected but just wanted to be sure. I'll investigate, thanks.
<erikh>
also, will be in seattle next week. prepare thine whiskey glass
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<drbrain>
cool
<drbrain>
what days?
<drbrain>
and, where are you staying?
<erikh>
22nd through the 24th (tues-thurs)
<erikh>
and Hotel Max
<erikh>
err, 22nd-25th
<drbrain>
then take the train to the end of the line, I think it's three or four blocks from the last statio
<erikh>
oh, from the airport?
<drbrain>
yep
<drbrain>
I think it's $2.75, takes about 40 minutes
<erikh>
what's the weather been like up there? should I get my galoshes out from storage?
<erikh>
nice. thanks!
<drbrain>
we had a couple storms blow through
<drbrain>
but usually when it rains you don't need rain-proof footwear
<erikh>
heh.
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<andrewvos>
Hmm, I want to make a gem for executing shell commands that records how much text the shell command usually outputs and then shows a progress bar estimating how long it will take and a percentage. Sounds stupid?
<drbrain>
andrewvos: no, that's what jenkins seems to do
<andrewvos>
drbrain: And TeamCity.
<andrewvos>
drbrain: I suppose my question is, will it be useful?
<rue>
It seems reasonable if you have a reasonably reliable measure
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<erikh>
andrewvos: just send it to pv ?
<drbrain>
andrewvos: when I make gems I only ask "would it be useful to me?"
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<andrewvos>
rue: Well I have a script that builds android applications. Building an android app is sloooow.
<andrewvos>
drbrain: Well the answer to that is yes, so I guess it's coding time :)
<drbrain>
andrewvos: :D
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<andrewvos>
Thinking about using childprocess to do the launching. Anyone know of anything better?
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<erikh>
yes
<andrewvos>
Oh, and what do I need to do ncurses stuff with a single line? I've heard of something that does that but can't remember.
<erikh>
pv
<andrewvos>
erikh: What's that then?
<erikh>
brew install pv
<erikh>
man pv
<erikh>
it does exactly what you are going to write.
<andrewvos>
Oh :/
<andrewvos>
But I want to write it in a gem! That is the Ruby way.
<erikh>
I am hearing "but I didn't write it! that's the ruby way"
<andrewvos>
Oh pv is really cool! Remember seeing this.
<andrewvos>
erikh: Well yeah. Just looking for something to code really.
<drbrain>
there's no reason you can't do it in ruby, even if just to see how it's done
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<erikh>
fair enough, I guess.
<erikh>
ri IO.pipe
<andrewvos>
erikh: But wait, this doesn't record the stdout and stderr to see how long a process takes.
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<andrewvos>
Or does it..
<erikh>
why would you do that and not use 'time' ?
<andrewvos>
erikh: Lots of sense comes out of your mouth.
<erikh>
it's a gift
<andrewvos>
erikh: It's probably a bash one-liner at this point :/
<andrewvos>
drbrain: Just been googling. This \r is something I've not heard about.
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<drbrain>
"\r" is carriage return, "\n" is newline
<drbrain>
in Ye Olden Days you would need to both return the carriage to the left and advance to the next line to put the cursor at the first column of the next line
<steveklabnik>
and different OSes ahd them in different order
<steveklabnik>
macs used \r\n and windows uesed \n\r or whtaever
<andrewvos>
drbrain: Wait so does that allow me to only modify the last line and not scroll the output?
<blazes816>
yep
<drbrain>
yup, since "\r" only moves the cursor to the leftmost column of the current line
<blazes816>
output "\r" and it will jump back to the beginning
<whitequark>
steveklabnik: reverse of that
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<steveklabnik>
whitequark: thanks, i couldnt remember
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<blazes816>
but the old chars will should be there, so blank them out
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<andrewvos>
Wow, this is going to be pretty easy :)
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<andrewvos>
blazes816: What do you mean by "blank them out"?
<whitequark>
steveklabnik: well I dunno, I spent my early days on Windows and so \r\n is burned out in my brain
<drbrain>
andrewvos: you need to write at least as many characters to the screen as the previous line
<whitequark>
and the mac has it in reverse order
<whitequark>
as if there wasn't enough confusion
<blazes816>
"abcd\rz" would end you up with "zbcd"
<drbrain>
^^
<kevinr>
hi
<blazes816>
because the bcd is still there
<blazes816>
so output spaces
<whitequark>
you need \e[1K to clear the line from the cursor position to the left
<whitequark>
iirc
<kevinr>
I'm new to Ruby, any ideas of projects I can do to learn ?
<andrewvos>
drbrain: Okay I see, so I need to write TERMINAL_WIDTH with my stuff and spaces at the end.
<andrewvos>
kevinr: This one!
<whitequark>
andrewvos: no no no no
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<andrewvos>
whitequark: \e[1K?
<kevinr>
andrewvos: ? =)
<whitequark>
andrewvos: get a doc on the VT-52/VT-102 terminal escape sequences
<andrewvos>
kevinr: Rewrite StackOverflow, but make it really simple and aimed towards being used inside companies.
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<kevinr>
haha, cant make it simplier, it's already perfect as it is :P
<andrewvos>
kevinr: No it sucks because everywhere I work doesn't like having their personal stuff displayed publicly.
<andrewvos>
kevinr: So make something really simple, and companies will use it!
<andrewvos>
kevinr: As long as it has Twitter Bootstrap CSS, everyone will love it.
<kevinr>
buy me a killer server, then !
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<andrewvos>
kevinr: No, it's not a service. It will be open source and people can install it in their intranets.
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<kevinr>
ooh, a "intern" SO ?
<kevinr>
only huge companies should find this interesting
<andrewvos>
No no no. kevinr, when I arrive at a new company and I don't know how to get email setup because I don't know the urls, I log on to kevinrOverflow and type "email setup" into search. The first result is the answer to my question.
<andrewvos>
You just saved some company like millions or something.
<kevinr>
you're looking for a wiki, not a SO-like
<andrewvos>
"It's like a StackOverflow for people who can't use StackOverflow"
<andrewvos>
No, because wikis are ugly and irritating. Also, they don't have "best answers" or anything like that.
<andrewvos>
Nobody likes Confluence.
<whitequark>
kevinr: if you're looking for an exercise, it's a pretty good one. otherwise, well, there are lots of SO clones in most languages out there.
<whitequark>
same with any other nice/obvious idea
<kevinr>
install procedures should not be told by anyone, only one competent guy write it once !
<andrewvos>
Yup, everything has been done like five times.
<andrewvos>
kevinr: Install procedures are different for everyone. Ever used Windows?
<kevinr>
it's not like "Hey, I tried this and it works half the way, vote !" ^^
<andrewvos>
kevinr: Yeah it is.
<kevinr>
if only AD admin do their job the right way ..
<andrewvos>
Nobody likes contacting those serial killers.
<kevinr>
nobody likes anything that has a relation with AD, I think
<whitequark>
well, LDAP itself is pretty nice
* whitequark
hides
<kevinr>
I have a newby question :
<andrewvos>
whitequark: A lot of ops guys tell me that.
<andrewvos>
You spelled newbie wrong. Not off to a good start :)
<kevinr>
a SO-like requires RoR, does it ?
<whitequark>
andrewvos: I have LDAP on my personal server. It's nice to have the same contacts on both RoundCube webmail and on my Android phone
<andrewvos>
kevinr: Yeah, which is probably why I'm too scared to write it.
<andrewvos>
whitequark: This RoundCube looks alright.
<kevinr>
andrewvos: I'm french, excuse my poor english :P
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<kevinr>
for a start, I thought a project in "pure" Ruby should be more appropriate
<whitequark>
andrewvos: roundcube is a definite match to any desktop mail client, and might even be for gmail, through that depends on how do you use gmail.
<andrewvos>
kevinr: You may be right. The Ruby Koans are quite fun if you just want to learn, but writing a project is more fun.
<andrewvos>
whitequark: What do you mean when you say it depends?
<whitequark>
andrewvos: gmail really has lots of features, ranging from external POP3/IMAP pickup to G+ integration. obviously not every one of those is present in RC
<kevinr>
didn't know Ruby Koans, thanks !
<whitequark>
but if you just need a good mail client, it is one.
<andrewvos>
whitequark: I see.
<andrewvos>
kevinr: Cool, it's quite fun and hopefully will get you writing tests too.
<kevinr>
Ruby syntax looks tricky, more than any langage I used
<andrewvos>
Yeah, but it's probably one of the most beautiful languages when you get used to it.
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<injekt>
ryanf: to answer your question from a couple of days ago: I didn't really see the point in the changes, BUT I also didn't see the flaw
<andrewvos>
Is ENV["COLUMNS"] meant to return something?
<drbrain>
andrewvos: sure, but the contents of the file help inform an answer to that
<zenspider>
File.join "/tmp", whatever
<zenspider>
is this the same andrewvos that's been in here for years now??
<zzak>
can't you use Tempfile?
<andrewvos>
drbrain: Ahh, ok so I'm writing this progress bar code that stores estimated times for scripts that execute. I want to throw this data some place.
<drbrain>
zzak: no, because it gets deleted
<erikh>
waitwaitwaitwaitwait
<erikh>
is this for that pipe thing?
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<zzak>
isn't that the point of a tmp file?
<zzak>
to get garbage collected? only difference is Tempfile is GC'd when the interpreter exits
<andrewvos>
zenspider: Yup, the same andrewvos.
<zenspider>
then these questions don't make sense
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<zenspider>
why not calculate the estimated time based on immediate integral or some averaging function?
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<drbrain>
zzak: you could patch #7120, update configure.in around line 2295
<zenspider>
or do you not have access to current % done?
<drbrain>
rather, #7173
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<erikh>
why do you need a tempfile at all?
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<andrewvos>
zenspider: I don't have access. I'm executing external scripts. In my case "ant debug".
<erikh>
IO.pipe
<andrewvos>
erikh: Because I run a script occasionally. Not more than one time inside my script.
<zzak>
drbrain: yeh, its ok if i commit that patch?
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<drbrain>
zzak: sure, check with `autoconf; ./configure --help`
<zenspider>
zzak: better to ask for forgiveness...
<zenspider>
besides... nobu will still make corrections regardless of how good your patch is :P
<zzak>
it checked out ok, just wasn't sure since it's not really docs
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<drbrain>
zzak: close enough :)
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<zzak>
thanks, i will commit it a bit later probably
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<zenspider>
zomg the ruby lexer is a fucking pita
<steveklabnik>
heh
<steveklabnik>
the pypy guys are making a ruby on top of pypy
<steveklabnik>
they were gonna write thier own parser/lexer
<Spaceghostc2c>
True story.
<steveklabnik>
evan told them not to.....
<zenspider>
uh huh... good luck with that
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<steveklabnik>
exactly.
<swarley>
Someone should help me make a better ruby parser in NQP
<steveklabnik>
they ened up taking jruby's ;)
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<swarley>
I'll write the implementation in parrot, i just hate writing parser grammars :p
<zenspider>
that's what I started with on the parser side. it was... not. fun.
<tenderlove>
omg
<zenspider>
the lexer I did myself... and it shows :/
<Spaceghostc2c>
swarley: Just pick up any recent CS graduate, it's still in their heads.
<swarley>
I was going to fix parrot/cardinal, but that parser.. not very good
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<swarley>
also they had methods in there like
<swarley>
!parrot_class_id
<swarley>
but no .method!
<swarley>
type methods
<swarley>
because methods ending with ! weren't valid by the parser
<Spaceghostc2c>
tenderlove: If I have something like: klass = Class.new(super_class=Class) do; def self.win; puts "Woot"; end;end;
* zenspider
blinks
<Spaceghostc2c>
tenderlove: If it's in a file that's been required, will I be able to call klass.win? I'm working up a proper gist for you. I keep getting that the klass var doesn't exist.
<zenspider>
no
<zenspider>
the local var klass will not be visible through the require
<tenderlove>
Spaceghostc2c: what zenspider said
<tenderlove>
you need to assign it to a constant
<zenspider>
or global... or ivar... whatever
<Spaceghostc2c>
Oh hm. shit, that might explain why the singleton in ruby sucks a bit.
<steveklabnik>
also, why the super_class=Class?
<Spaceghostc2c>
steveklabnik: Just an example.
<steveklabnik>
okay
<Spaceghostc2c>
I'm actually using Databasedotcom::Convenience::Client
<zenspider>
fuck fuck fuck... leading "trailing" dot is my biggest error now :((((
<Spaceghostc2c>
So basically, the singleton in stdlib sucks.
<drbrain>
Spaceghostc2c: it's ok, singletons are anti-patterns
<Spaceghostc2c>
tenderlove: I was trying to make a proper singletons.
<zenspider>
they're not antipatterns... but they are a design smell
<Spaceghostc2c>
drbrain: And this time it's a cognitive deviation that causes me to reach for it.
<zenspider>
why do you pluralize singleton?!?
<steveklabnik>
lolol
<Spaceghostc2c>
zenspider: Fat fingers.
<Spaceghostc2c>
They just love them keys.
<tenderlove>
Spaceghostc2c: can you just use the Singleton module?
<zenspider>
I'm gonna make Pluralton and ensure it is always used in the singular
<Spaceghostc2c>
tenderlove: Yeah, but it's stupid easy to accidentally break the singletonness without knowing it.
<zenspider>
how?
<zenspider>
and why do you think you need that much control over your objects?
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<steveklabnik>
heh
<Spaceghostc2c>
Without using #send, there's a few ways.
<Spaceghostc2c>
zenspider: Because not everyone lives in a hippie commune!
<tenderlove>
Spaceghostc2c: you should probably report those as bugs?
<tenderlove>
thing is, no matter what you use to make a singleton, there will be a way around it
<erikh>
$foo = Object.new # BAM
<Spaceghostc2c>
tenderlove: Okay. I'm just assuming if you don't use #send.
<erikh>
singleton pattern in one line right there
<zenspider>
I don't believe it until I see proof
<Spaceghostc2c>
Is there any difference between class level instance variables and class variables.
<Spaceghostc2c>
?
<zenspider>
very much so
<Spaceghostc2c>
Where could I learn the distinction?
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<erikh>
you could even do this: def create_singleton(name, klass); eval("$#{name} = #{klass.name}.new"); end
<zenspider>
I start with books... the pickaxe is pretty much mandatory imo
<Spaceghostc2c>
tenderlove: Anyways, I was doing things like getting and setting singleton data from an inherited class, or if I do my own singleton stuff for modules, I was able to effectively break the use of the singleton.
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<zenspider>
yeah. reading is hard.
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<Spaceghostc2c>
zenspider: I'm not going to read a whole book just for a small bit of information. Maybe if I weren't already looking for something. Thanks for the snarky attitude though, I give it to others all the time. <3
<zenspider>
because you have to read a whole book in order to figure out any little bit... right.
<Spaceghostc2c>
zenspider: Back off. :)
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<erikh>
I got a few of these if you want some more
<zenspider>
I'll back off as soon as you read a book.
<Spaceghostc2c>
tenderlove: What I was hoping to accomplish was to have an anonymous class that encapsulates the methods I need so that it can't be inherited or changed on the singleton.
<steveklabnik>
you wouldn't have these questions if you actually read the book ;)
<Spaceghostc2c>
steveklabnik: Seriously?
<steveklabnik>
"I dont understand ruby metaprogramming, but I don't want to take the time to learn about it."
<zzak>
so my cat got caught a real mouse last night
<steveklabnik>
;)
<Spaceghostc2c>
steveklabnik: I've bought and read the metaprogramming ruby book many times. :)
<zzak>
i am so proud
<steveklabnik>
zzak: oh no! did it play with it?
<Spaceghostc2c>
zenspider: Now I get why people say the things they do about you. I don't mind it much though.
<zzak>
steveklabnik: he was running around with it in his mouth, he's harmless haha
<steveklabnik>
heh
<steveklabnik>
that shit can get rough
<steveklabnik>
cats are brutal
<kuja>
Why would you keep buying a book that you already own? That seems silly! </troll> :p
<zzak>
i was worried it might have a disease, so i let it escape down the radiator
<zzak>
so he clawed and cried all night at the radiator
<Spaceghostc2c>
kuja: Lol! :D
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* Spaceghostc2c
finds it a bit hilarious that steveklabnik stands up against poor jokes, but likes making fun of people. :D
<zenspider>
zzak: how old is your cat?
<steveklabnik>
that's becasue there's a difference between 'i dont want to read a book to learn things' and systematic oppression of entire classes of people over the last centuries.
<steveklabnik>
;)
<Spaceghostc2c>
tenderlove: So, I queried you about it, if it's not something you care about, let me know.
<Spaceghostc2c>
steveklabnik: Fuck off. <3
<Spaceghostc2c>
tenderlove: Or don't. Whatevs.
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<zzak>
zenspider: a year and a half
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<steveklabnik>
that's amazing
<Spaceghostc2c>
drbrain: I will in the future. I told them to back off about that. It's been a while since I've had to deal with asking people better than me for help.