ChanServ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 1.9.3-p125: http://ruby-lang.org | Paste >3 lines of text on http://pastie.org or use a gist
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<countdigi> just reading up on the actor model and giving me some inspiration to play w/ erlang
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<dreamhawk> Anyone here knows how to install "custom_require.rb" ? :S
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<manveru> dreamhawk: the who?
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<erikh> dreamhawk: your rubygems is broken.
<erikh> either that or you're not reading the stack traces from your requires in the proper order
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<erikh> starting at the top, the first message is the actual error, and the rest of it is the trace of calls that got you to that point from the start of the program.
<erikh> (which if the program is just starting and hit an invalid require, would almost purely be in rubygems)
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<jMCg> manveru: thanks! almost there, but not quite yet: http://dpaste.com/814201/
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<manveru> jMCg: you mean it returns too much?_
<jMCg> manveru: so, essentially, I now have this: http://dpaste.com/814204/ http://dpaste.com/814205/
<manveru> interesting
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<manveru> so the enum isn't using the c symbols at all
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<jMCg> manveru: that's right, it's creating them on the fly.
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<manveru> i know there was some way...
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<manveru> are those extern?
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<jMCg> manveru: they are defines/enums in unistd.h (or one of the files included from there)
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<manveru> i think you need a compiler :(
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<manveru> @ jMCg
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<jMCg> manveru: does this compile things on the fly every time it's executed?
<manveru> yes :(
<manveru> it basically makes a little C file, puts a couple of printfs in there, and parses the output
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* jMCg just ran strace, looks scary.
<manveru> sorry, i was wrong yesterday
<manveru> you can still cache the output for your platform after the first run
<manveru> but at this point it's really not much better than a normal c ext
<jMCg> *nod*
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<manveru> http://www.zenspider.com/ZSS/Products/RubyInline/ might be worth a look :)
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<jMCg> oh, now I see.
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<andrewvos> Anyone know why I can't see a trace when I run cucumber in intellij?
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<rue> Can you do things any more wrong?
<rue> Sorry, I have nothing useful
<steveklabnik> that's not very nice
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<rue> It’s slightly nice…he IS using intellij, after all
<rue> (Seriously, though, I’m not quite sold on this cucumber for stuff other than Ruby thing, but it’s an interesting experiment.)
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<rue> andrewvos: You *are* getting traces otherwise, no?
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<zzak> dreamhawk: trying to use json?
<zzak> andrewvos: blasphemer
<steveklabnik> cukes are fine
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<steveklabnik> it's hard to do right though
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<chris2> cucumber, the cobol of today
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<steveklabnik> hahah
<rue> steveklabnik: In my book, that basically means that it’s *not* fine
<rue> Not to say that testing is easy, but if you’ve got this huge fucking piece to help with it, it should actually help
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<steveklabnik> well
<steveklabnik> just because people mis-use a tool doesnt mean the tool is bad
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<chris2> imo the tool is conceptually broken
<chris2> like every tool that defines a dsl with regexp, or tries to parse english with regexps
<steveklabnik> naw
<steveklabnik> you shouldnt be using lots of regexps in your cuke steps
<steveklabnik> really
<steveklabnik> or rather, the features of regexes
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<judofyr> it's not English though. it's more like Cukenglish
<steveklabnik> i've actually found Given/When/Then to be a great tool, even when not actually using cukes
<steveklabnik> it helps people think about how to define their feature or bug.
<steveklabnik> like, a lot
<chris2> sure
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<chris2> i didnt say the concept is broken
<chris2> just the tool :)
<chris2> imo one can just use plain ruby
<steveklabnik> 'conceptually broken' means that the concept is broken, yo
<chris2> no?
<chris2> conceptually broken = broken by design
<steveklabnik> ehhhhhh i dont want to fight about this, tbh. sure. the tool is broken. sure, you could just use ruby
<steveklabnik> then again, not everyone knows ruby ;)
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<chris2> steveklabnik: yes, i would just use ruby
<chris2> people which cant pick up enough ruby to write specs probably shouldnt write specs
* steveklabnik shrugs
<steveklabnik> i want EVERYONE to participate in building software
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<steveklabnik> given/when/then helps people like PMs understand how to communicate more effectively with developers
<steveklabnik> i've seen it done
<imperator> how often to pm's look at tests?
<imperator> *do*
<steveklabnik> we wrote G/W/T in pivoltal
<steveklabnik> pivotal
<steveklabnik> they would go through them before accepting features
<steveklabnik> i have observed this process improving a team In The Real World
<steveklabnik> that's all i'm saying
<steveklabnik> no silver bullets, etc
<imperator> requires a level of discipline i haven't seen
<steveklabnik> (the actual tests were rspec/capybara, in this case)
<chris2> imperator: ack
<chris2> steveklabnik: and its not an argument against these people helping spec
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<chris2> but if a programmer writes them down anyway, it doesnt help writing it in cukenglish :P
<imperator> chris2, ack what?
<steveklabnik> yes, it does
<steveklabnik> it's a bridge
<chris2> imperator: lack of discipline
<steveklabnik> between the two worlds
<imperator> never liked rspec or cucumber
<chris2> imperator: :)
<steveklabnik> also, this team kinda sucked, they didnt really have good discipline in the first place
<imperator> test-unit 2 for me!
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<steveklabnik> G/W/T gave them the tool to help improve their discipline
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<steveklabnik> the tiny bit of formalism helped immensely
<chris2> imperator: i hardly need more than assert :P
* imperator admits he doesn't have a large sample size, though
<chris2> well, not coding a lot stuff these days
<imperator> steveklabnik, good to hear that it worked
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<judofyr> imperator: dude, minitest is the new test-unit
<steveklabnik> i've also seen tons of terrible cuke suites ;)
<imperator> judofyr, not for me
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<judofyr> imperator: interesting. why not?
<imperator> why should i switch?
<steveklabnik> isn't t-u 2 a thin layer over minitest?
<steveklabnik> or is that t-u 3?
<judofyr> hm…
* steveklabnik doesnt' use TU unless he's helping with rails
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<imperator> steveklabnik, no
<steveklabnik> .....
<judofyr> steveklabnik: that was surprisingly thicker than I thought :/
<steveklabnik> yeah
<imperator> hmm, wasn't always so
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<steveklabnik> right
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<steveklabnik> then minitest happened
<steveklabnik> ;)
<imperator> and what's better about minitest?
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<steveklabnik> it's implemented more simply, and it's faster
* steveklabnik shrugs
<imperator> i don't give a flying fuck about implementation
* steveklabnik rolls his eyes
<imperator> that's invisible to me
<judofyr> there's also MiniTest::Benchmark
<judofyr> and MiniTest::Spec and ::Mock
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<imperator> faster? that's a legitimate argument; like to see benchmarks
<zzak> it's stdlib
<steveklabnik> (I always use rspec-mock when i use minitest on a project) heh
<judofyr> steveklabnik: I've always been a rr fan
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<judofyr> steveklabnik: but most of the time I just use Ruby: `def foo.bar`
<steveklabnik> ive heard good things
<judofyr> or write the code in a way that makes it easy to add a stub object (dependency injection-ish)
<zzak> i do commend kouhei for maintaining TU2 tho
<judofyr> imperator: also, minitest/pride
<steveklabnik> +1
<imperator> judofyr, please elaborate
<judofyr> imperator: http://cl.ly/image/3t0w1K3l2b1S
<imperator> oh
<judofyr> :P
<judofyr> imperator: also, MiniTest has a really nice seed-feature. dunno if T-U has it
<judofyr> it runs the tests in random order
<steveklabnik> i love the setting to turn that off
<judofyr> i_suck_and_my_tests_are_order_dependent! or something?
<imperator> judofyr, what does the seed feature do?
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<steveklabnik> and it spits out the seed every time
<judofyr> imperator: by default, all tests run in random order. but if you need to debug one specific run, you can just pass in "--seed 123"
<steveklabnik> if you get a failure that's order-dependent
<steveklabnik> of course, you'd never know that, since you don't care about implmeentations ;)
<imperator> implementation != API
<imperator> judofyr, not sure I'm following
<imperator> "debug one specific run" ?
<judofyr> imperator: yes stevie said: if you have failures that are order-dependent you can provide a --seed to "lock" the order
<judofyr> same seed = same order
<judofyr> no seed = random seed = random order
<imperator> oic, thanks
<steveklabnik> the easiest way to learn an api is to look at the implementation :)
<steveklabnik> often
* imperator proceeds to learn Rails by digging through the code, see you next year
<judofyr> often != always
<steveklabnik> meh
* judofyr hands back the strawman :)
<steveklabnik> even rails isn't too terrible
<steveklabnik> i only recently started contributing
<andrewvos> cough capybara cough
<steveklabnik> it's got a lot of metaprogramming, but it's really not the worst.
<jMCg> steveklabnik: what is?
<judofyr> steveklabnik: personally I think it's the architecture of Rails that's terrible (global state, modules that are included everywhere)
<judofyr> s/personally//
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<steveklabnik> judofyr: oh yeah, i'm not saying it's GOOD
<steveklabnik> i'm saying that you can read it
<judofyr> :)
<steveklabnik> jMCg: rails
<judofyr> steveklabnik: well, you can read camping.rb too ;)
<steveklabnik> :)
<jMCg> steveklabnik: I meant, what *is* the *worst* ;)
<steveklabnik> oooooh
<steveklabnik> shoes
<steveklabnik> :(
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<steveklabnik> shoes4 will be good though
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<judofyr> shoes+1 will be good!
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<judofyr> steveklabnik: anyone using Shoes/HH these days?
<steveklabnik> HH is still being used by a lot of people
<steveklabnik> jMCg: yes
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<steveklabnik> judofyr: at least one organization is actively using it to teach high school kids
<judofyr> cool
<steveklabnik> its further development is blocking on the shoes4 work
<jMCg> steveklabnik: what is shoes?
<judofyr> jMCg: look down at your feet :)
<imperator> gui toolkit
<jMCg> judofyr: I'm not wearing any.
<judofyr> jMCg: but I'd say the web page explains it pretty well: "Shoes is a cross-platform toolkit for writing graphical apps easily and artfully using Ruby."
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* jMCg doesn't do GUI…
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<imperator> i only use motif because i'm old school
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<zzak> imperator: is taht whole "implementation philosophy" attributed to your windows affiliation?
<steveklabnik> ahahahah
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<imperator> zzak, was that supposed to be a dig?
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<imperator> "windows affiliation" - sounds like some sinister political thing
<elux> hey guys
<imperator> elux, howdy
<elux> can the ->{ } shorthand have a block variable..? ->{|x| puts x } returns a syntax error..
<_tca> ->(x) { puts x }
<zzak> imperator: <3
<elux> sick. i love it. thanks
<imperator> zzak, real answer: no connection
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<zzak> imperator: no hard feelings, i was just making a stupid observation
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<imperator> huh, rubygems 1.8.24 didn't make it into p286, wonder why not
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<andrewvos> Time.now.strftime("%l") #=> " 5"
<andrewvos> Erm, shouldn't that be "5"?
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<judofyr> andrewvos: unfortunately, no
<andrewvos> judofyr: Okay :(
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<andrewvos> judofyr: You sound like you have a story to tell about it?
<judofyr> andrewvos: I just have this comment in my code: # I wanted to use the %l pattern here, but it preceeds the number with a space.
<judofyr> added it recently
<andrewvos> Interesting
<andrewvos> judofyr: - don't pad a numerical output.
<andrewvos> judofyr: Time.now.strftime("%-l")
<andrewvos> judofyr: Time.now.strftime("%-l") #=> "5"
<judofyr> oh, nice
<andrewvos> Weeeird. Did not know about flags in strftime. Not sure I'm glad I do.
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<judofyr> andrewvos: this was in a Perl project though. flags don't work there :/
<andrewvos> judofyr: Heh, AM/PM = %p, am/pm = %P
<andrewvos> SO OBVIOUS
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<rindolf> Hi al.
<rindolf> Hi all.
<rindolf> You can call me Al.
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<whitequark> Sets the instance variable names by symbol to object, thereby frustrating the efforts of the class’s author to attempt to provide proper encapsulation. The variable did not have to exist prior to this call.
<whitequark> erikh: was that you? :D
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<imperator> any bsd pros here?
<rue> Dr. Brian at least
<imperator> ran configure; gmake, gets through to the part where it's generating the makefile and then it just....hangs
<drbrain> I have to leave for the bus ☹
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<matti> imperator: Hangs?
<imperator> yep
<imperator> gmake 3.81 - that old?
<imperator> nm, never gets past configure
<imperator> "config.status: create Makefile"
<imperator> *creating*
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<crankharder> I'm looking for some method on Enumerable that returns the value of the block if the block evals truthy
<rue> imperator: Nothing in the logs? That’s odd
<crankharder> similar to #detect, but detect returns the value yielded to the block... i need the result of the block
<rue> imperator: 3.81 is what OS X uses
<imperator> hm, maybe i should just use a package
<whitequark> crankharder: .map
<crankharder> er, no, i need the first true result of the block
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<rue> crankharder: Might a .find_all.map work?
<rue> #take_while isn’t quite it
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<crankharder> rue that'll evaluate more than i need
<rue> Did you just need the first one, or all?
<crankharder> same as select{}.first, but i dont want to evaluate everything
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<rue> Don’t think there’s a good pattern for that. Use find, maybe, and re-eval
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<rue> Or break out early
<rue> But it sounds like you could maybe do better by readjusting your data structure
<whitequark> crankharder: .each { |v| x = affect(v); break x if x.good? }
<whitequark> crankharder: or convert it to Enumerator, which is lazy
<whitequark> a.to_enum.map { |v| affect(v) }.find { |v| v.good? }
<whitequark> oh, that doesn't work
<whitequark> a pity
<rue> No, that’ll still loop the whole thing
<rue> Enumerable::Lazy in 2.0 will do it though
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<tdy> say i have arrays ary1=[A1,A2] and ary2=[B1,B2]
<tdy> is there a clean way to get one array [A1<<B1, A2<<B2]
<tdy> (where the elements are strings)
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<swarley> tdy;
<swarley> so you want
<swarley> a=["a","d"] b=["b","c"]; c = ["ab","cd"]
<swarley> ?
<tdy> swarley: c = ["ab","dc"]
<tdy> with that particular example
<swarley> [15] pry(main)> ary1 = ["a","d"]; ary2 = ["b","c"]; ary1.zip(ary2).map(&:join)
<swarley> => ["ab", "dc"]
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<tdy> swarley: great, that's it.. thanks
<rue> Also a1.zip(a2).map {|x, y| x << y }
<rue> Wait, what, that’s the same. Wonder what I was thinking
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<erikh> drbrain: if you're around; do you know off hand if bundler does anything retarded to Gem.find_files? e.g., do rdoc plugins still work with bundle exec ?
<drbrain> erikh: I don't know if bundler does anything, but AFAIK rdoc plugins should still work
<erikh> ok, that's what I suspected but just wanted to be sure. I'll investigate, thanks.
<erikh> also, will be in seattle next week. prepare thine whiskey glass
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<drbrain> cool
<drbrain> what days?
<drbrain> and, where are you staying?
<erikh> 22nd through the 24th (tues-thurs)
<erikh> and Hotel Max
<erikh> err, 22nd-25th
<drbrain> then take the train to the end of the line, I think it's three or four blocks from the last statio
<erikh> oh, from the airport?
<drbrain> yep
<drbrain> I think it's $2.75, takes about 40 minutes
<erikh> wonderful. I had planned to take a taxi
<erikh> that'll save a nice chunk of change
<erikh> (for whiskey)
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<drbrain> erikh: http://goo.gl/maps/9dw91
<erikh> what's the weather been like up there? should I get my galoshes out from storage?
<erikh> nice. thanks!
<drbrain> we had a couple storms blow through
<drbrain> but usually when it rains you don't need rain-proof footwear
<erikh> heh.
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<andrewvos> Hmm, I want to make a gem for executing shell commands that records how much text the shell command usually outputs and then shows a progress bar estimating how long it will take and a percentage. Sounds stupid?
<drbrain> andrewvos: no, that's what jenkins seems to do
<andrewvos> drbrain: And TeamCity.
<andrewvos> drbrain: I suppose my question is, will it be useful?
<rue> It seems reasonable if you have a reasonably reliable measure
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<erikh> andrewvos: just send it to pv ?
<drbrain> andrewvos: when I make gems I only ask "would it be useful to me?"
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<andrewvos> rue: Well I have a script that builds android applications. Building an android app is sloooow.
<andrewvos> drbrain: Well the answer to that is yes, so I guess it's coding time :)
<drbrain> andrewvos: :D
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<andrewvos> Thinking about using childprocess to do the launching. Anyone know of anything better?
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<erikh> yes
<andrewvos> Oh, and what do I need to do ncurses stuff with a single line? I've heard of something that does that but can't remember.
<erikh> pv
<andrewvos> erikh: What's that then?
<erikh> brew install pv
<erikh> man pv
<erikh> it does exactly what you are going to write.
<andrewvos> Oh :/
<andrewvos> But I want to write it in a gem! That is the Ruby way.
<erikh> I am hearing "but I didn't write it! that's the ruby way"
<andrewvos> Oh pv is really cool! Remember seeing this.
<andrewvos> erikh: Well yeah. Just looking for something to code really.
<drbrain> there's no reason you can't do it in ruby, even if just to see how it's done
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<erikh> fair enough, I guess.
<erikh> ri IO.pipe
<andrewvos> erikh: But wait, this doesn't record the stdout and stderr to see how long a process takes.
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<andrewvos> Or does it..
<erikh> why would you do that and not use 'time' ?
<andrewvos> erikh: Lots of sense comes out of your mouth.
<erikh> it's a gift
<andrewvos> erikh: It's probably a bash one-liner at this point :/
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<andrewvos> Ok, writing it in bash then.
<andrewvos> Oh wait pv does --eta.
<erikh> I mean, drbrain is right, if you really want to know how this stuff works, go ahead and write it
<erikh> but if you just want to solve your problems, the tools already exist.
<andrewvos> Well, I want to solve a problem and write code. Writing a bash script makes me happy too.
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<andrewvos> Actually what the hell, I'm writing it in Ruby for fun. It's too easy in pv.
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<NemesisD> anyone know of a really well-designed example gem that's a client to a web API
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<andrewvos> NemesisD: I saw a talk by a guy from brightbox recently. It was a good talk, but can't vouch for the gem.
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<andrewvos> NemesisD: But they are doing exactly that.
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<NemesisD> andrewvos: do you remember the gem? i just found relax which looks like a pretty good client abstraction
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<andrewvos> No I don't remember it.
<andrewvos> So, if I want to do a progress bar but modify only the last line of the terminal do I need to use ncurses?
<drbrain> andrewvos: no, you can use print "0%\r"; print "1%\r"; … print "\n"
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<loincloth> hola
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<andrewvos> drbrain: Just been googling. This \r is something I've not heard about.
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<drbrain> "\r" is carriage return, "\n" is newline
<drbrain> in Ye Olden Days you would need to both return the carriage to the left and advance to the next line to put the cursor at the first column of the next line
<steveklabnik> and different OSes ahd them in different order
<steveklabnik> macs used \r\n and windows uesed \n\r or whtaever
<andrewvos> drbrain: Wait so does that allow me to only modify the last line and not scroll the output?
<blazes816> yep
<drbrain> yup, since "\r" only moves the cursor to the leftmost column of the current line
<blazes816> output "\r" and it will jump back to the beginning
<whitequark> steveklabnik: reverse of that
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<steveklabnik> whitequark: thanks, i couldnt remember
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<blazes816> but the old chars will should be there, so blank them out
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<andrewvos> Wow, this is going to be pretty easy :)
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<andrewvos> blazes816: What do you mean by "blank them out"?
<whitequark> steveklabnik: well I dunno, I spent my early days on Windows and so \r\n is burned out in my brain
<drbrain> andrewvos: you need to write at least as many characters to the screen as the previous line
<whitequark> and the mac has it in reverse order
<whitequark> as if there wasn't enough confusion
<blazes816> "abcd\rz" would end you up with "zbcd"
<drbrain> ^^
<kevinr> hi
<blazes816> because the bcd is still there
<blazes816> so output spaces
<whitequark> you need \e[1K to clear the line from the cursor position to the left
<whitequark> iirc
<kevinr> I'm new to Ruby, any ideas of projects I can do to learn ?
<andrewvos> drbrain: Okay I see, so I need to write TERMINAL_WIDTH with my stuff and spaces at the end.
<andrewvos> kevinr: This one!
<whitequark> andrewvos: no no no no
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<andrewvos> whitequark: \e[1K?
<kevinr> andrewvos: ? =)
<whitequark> andrewvos: get a doc on the VT-52/VT-102 terminal escape sequences
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<whitequark> it has everything you need
<drbrain> andrewvos: or use highline
<whitequark> this one is pretty nice
<kevinr> so, someone has an idea please ?
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<andrewvos> kevinr: Rewrite StackOverflow, but make it really simple and aimed towards being used inside companies.
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<kevinr> haha, cant make it simplier, it's already perfect as it is :P
<andrewvos> kevinr: No it sucks because everywhere I work doesn't like having their personal stuff displayed publicly.
<andrewvos> kevinr: So make something really simple, and companies will use it!
<andrewvos> kevinr: As long as it has Twitter Bootstrap CSS, everyone will love it.
<kevinr> buy me a killer server, then !
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<andrewvos> kevinr: No, it's not a service. It will be open source and people can install it in their intranets.
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<kevinr> ooh, a "intern" SO ?
<kevinr> only huge companies should find this interesting
<andrewvos> No no no. kevinr, when I arrive at a new company and I don't know how to get email setup because I don't know the urls, I log on to kevinrOverflow and type "email setup" into search. The first result is the answer to my question.
<andrewvos> You just saved some company like millions or something.
<kevinr> you're looking for a wiki, not a SO-like
<andrewvos> "It's like a StackOverflow for people who can't use StackOverflow"
<andrewvos> No, because wikis are ugly and irritating. Also, they don't have "best answers" or anything like that.
<andrewvos> Nobody likes Confluence.
<whitequark> kevinr: if you're looking for an exercise, it's a pretty good one. otherwise, well, there are lots of SO clones in most languages out there.
<whitequark> same with any other nice/obvious idea
<kevinr> install procedures should not be told by anyone, only one competent guy write it once !
<andrewvos> Yup, everything has been done like five times.
<andrewvos> kevinr: Install procedures are different for everyone. Ever used Windows?
<kevinr> it's not like "Hey, I tried this and it works half the way, vote !" ^^
<andrewvos> kevinr: Yeah it is.
<kevinr> if only AD admin do their job the right way ..
<andrewvos> Nobody likes contacting those serial killers.
<kevinr> nobody likes anything that has a relation with AD, I think
<whitequark> well, LDAP itself is pretty nice
* whitequark hides
<kevinr> I have a newby question :
<andrewvos> whitequark: A lot of ops guys tell me that.
<andrewvos> You spelled newbie wrong. Not off to a good start :)
<kevinr> a SO-like requires RoR, does it ?
<whitequark> andrewvos: I have LDAP on my personal server. It's nice to have the same contacts on both RoundCube webmail and on my Android phone
<andrewvos> kevinr: Yeah, which is probably why I'm too scared to write it.
<andrewvos> whitequark: This RoundCube looks alright.
<kevinr> andrewvos: I'm french, excuse my poor english :P
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<kevinr> for a start, I thought a project in "pure" Ruby should be more appropriate
<whitequark> andrewvos: roundcube is a definite match to any desktop mail client, and might even be for gmail, through that depends on how do you use gmail.
<andrewvos> kevinr: You may be right. The Ruby Koans are quite fun if you just want to learn, but writing a project is more fun.
<andrewvos> whitequark: What do you mean when you say it depends?
<whitequark> andrewvos: gmail really has lots of features, ranging from external POP3/IMAP pickup to G+ integration. obviously not every one of those is present in RC
<kevinr> didn't know Ruby Koans, thanks !
<whitequark> but if you just need a good mail client, it is one.
<andrewvos> whitequark: I see.
<andrewvos> kevinr: Cool, it's quite fun and hopefully will get you writing tests too.
<kevinr> Ruby syntax looks tricky, more than any langage I used
<andrewvos> Yeah, but it's probably one of the most beautiful languages when you get used to it.
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<injekt> ryanf: to answer your question from a couple of days ago: I didn't really see the point in the changes, BUT I also didn't see the flaw
<andrewvos> Is ENV["COLUMNS"] meant to return something?
<andrewvos> (Because it isn't)
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<drbrain> andrewvos: might depend on your shell
<drbrain> bash 3.2.48 sets COLUMNS
<andrewvos> drbrain: I am using zsh.
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<whitequark> eww, curses
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<whitequark> they are called so for a reason, believe me
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<andrewvos> I have an array ["/", "\\"]. What's an easy way to get first \, then / incrementally forever?
<andrewvos> \ / \ / \
<swarley> probably inject
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<andrewvos> Actually, I want / - \
<swarley> so, you want to join them together?
<zenspider> forever?
<steveklabnik> andrewvos: i am really confsued about what you want
<zenspider> cycle
<steveklabnik> ^^^
<andrewvos> swarley: No I want an iterator that returns me "/", "-", "\" in that order.
<andrewvos> zenspider: Oooh
<swarley> uh
<swarley> yeah you'd have to use inject if you'd doing something sophisticated with it
<zenspider> no. you NEVER _have_ to use inject
<steveklabnik> lol
<steveklabnik> also, inject would not even be close to what you want here
<zenspider> %w[ / - \\ ].cycle # => Enumerable::Enumerator
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<zenspider> wow. I have 27 injects across ALL my projects. that's more than I thought there'd be
<zenspider> hah. and 5 of them are the class lookup pattern
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<andrewvos> zenspider: Cycle is perfect thanks.
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<zenspider> n/p
<zenspider> now... as payment, finish ruby_parser 3.0
<zenspider> :P
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<andrewvos> How long does a Tempfile.new file last generally?
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<andrewvos> I mean, will it be around for a few days?
<drbrain> until the block finishes or until the Tempfile is garbage collected
<andrewvos> If you use the same name.
<zenspider> use the block form...
<andrewvos> drbrain: So it doesn't exist between processes? I want to store some data temporarily in a gem.
<drbrain> andrewvos: it doesn't unless you pass the name across
<zenspider> that's not a temporary file then :P
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<drbrain> and Tempfile.open 'a' do … end; Tempfile.open 'a' do … end will very rarely have the same name
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<zenspider> very rarely? I don't think it can have the same name. iirc it loops until unique
<drbrain> it's a new random name each time, but it can (very rarely) collide
<drbrain> zenspider: after the end of the block the file is gone
<andrewvos> I think I've seen it have the same name.
<drbrain> andrewvos: it was more likely in ruby 1.8
<zenspider> end while @@cleanlist.include?(tmpname) or File.exist?(lock) or File.exist?(tmpname)
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<andrewvos> drbrain: Oh ok just confirmed that in irb. Different names.
<andrewvos> So where would you guys suggest storing some data?
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<drbrain> zenspider: all those will return false if the file was cleaned up
<drbrain> andrewvos: /tmp, but not using Tempfile
<andrewvos> Surely in the gem directory. Is /lib okay?
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<drbrain> I guess /var could work, too
<andrewvos> drbrain: Oh ok. Would I just guess the path, or use something built in?
<drbrain> andrewvos: you haven't provided enough data to answer that question
<zzak> is seattlerb today or something?
<drbrain> zzak: yep
<erikh> wait
<erikh> I thought you said it was next week
<erikh> damnit
<drbrain> erikh: it's every week
<erikh> oh ha
<zzak> tuesdays
<zzak> i figured, its been a while since you both were this active :)
<andrewvos> drbrain: Sorry, I mean if I were to store a file in /tmp how would I build a path to that file?
<zzak> drbrain: https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/7173 please check it
<drbrain> andrewvos: sure, but the contents of the file help inform an answer to that
<zenspider> File.join "/tmp", whatever
<zenspider> is this the same andrewvos that's been in here for years now??
<zzak> can't you use Tempfile?
<andrewvos> drbrain: Ahh, ok so I'm writing this progress bar code that stores estimated times for scripts that execute. I want to throw this data some place.
<drbrain> zzak: no, because it gets deleted
<erikh> waitwaitwaitwaitwait
<erikh> is this for that pipe thing?
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<zzak> isn't that the point of a tmp file?
<zzak> to get garbage collected? only difference is Tempfile is GC'd when the interpreter exits
<andrewvos> zenspider: Yup, the same andrewvos.
<zenspider> then these questions don't make sense
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<zenspider> why not calculate the estimated time based on immediate integral or some averaging function?
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<drbrain> zzak: you could patch #7120, update configure.in around line 2295
<zenspider> or do you not have access to current % done?
<drbrain> rather, #7173
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<erikh> why do you need a tempfile at all?
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<andrewvos> zenspider: I don't have access. I'm executing external scripts. In my case "ant debug".
<erikh> IO.pipe
<andrewvos> erikh: Because I run a script occasionally. Not more than one time inside my script.
<zzak> drbrain: yeh, its ok if i commit that patch?
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<drbrain> zzak: sure, check with `autoconf; ./configure --help`
<zenspider> zzak: better to ask for forgiveness...
<zenspider> besides... nobu will still make corrections regardless of how good your patch is :P
<drbrain> yeah, pretty much
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<zzak> it checked out ok, just wasn't sure since it's not really docs
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<drbrain> zzak: close enough :)
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<zzak> thanks, i will commit it a bit later probably
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<zenspider> zomg the ruby lexer is a fucking pita
<steveklabnik> heh
<steveklabnik> the pypy guys are making a ruby on top of pypy
<steveklabnik> they were gonna write thier own parser/lexer
<Spaceghostc2c> True story.
<steveklabnik> evan told them not to.....
<zenspider> uh huh... good luck with that
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<steveklabnik> exactly.
<swarley> Someone should help me make a better ruby parser in NQP
<steveklabnik> they ened up taking jruby's ;)
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<swarley> I'll write the implementation in parrot, i just hate writing parser grammars :p
<zenspider> that's what I started with on the parser side. it was... not. fun.
<tenderlove> omg
<zenspider> the lexer I did myself... and it shows :/
<Spaceghostc2c> swarley: Just pick up any recent CS graduate, it's still in their heads.
<swarley> I was going to fix parrot/cardinal, but that parser.. not very good
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<swarley> also they had methods in there like
<swarley> !parrot_class_id
<swarley> but no .method!
<swarley> type methods
<swarley> because methods ending with ! weren't valid by the parser
<Spaceghostc2c> tenderlove: If I have something like: klass = Class.new(super_class=Class) do; def self.win; puts "Woot"; end;end;
* zenspider blinks
<Spaceghostc2c> tenderlove: If it's in a file that's been required, will I be able to call klass.win? I'm working up a proper gist for you. I keep getting that the klass var doesn't exist.
<zenspider> no
<zenspider> the local var klass will not be visible through the require
<tenderlove> Spaceghostc2c: what zenspider said
<tenderlove> you need to assign it to a constant
<zenspider> or global... or ivar... whatever
<Spaceghostc2c> Oh hm. shit, that might explain why the singleton in ruby sucks a bit.
<steveklabnik> also, why the super_class=Class?
<Spaceghostc2c> steveklabnik: Just an example.
<steveklabnik> okay
<Spaceghostc2c> I'm actually using Databasedotcom::Convenience::Client
<zenspider> fuck fuck fuck... leading "trailing" dot is my biggest error now :((((
<Spaceghostc2c> So basically, the singleton in stdlib sucks.
<drbrain> Spaceghostc2c: it's ok, singletons are anti-patterns
<Spaceghostc2c> tenderlove: I was trying to make a proper singletons.
<zenspider> they're not antipatterns... but they are a design smell
<Spaceghostc2c> drbrain: And this time it's a cognitive deviation that causes me to reach for it.
<zenspider> why do you pluralize singleton?!?
<steveklabnik> lolol
<Spaceghostc2c> zenspider: Fat fingers.
<Spaceghostc2c> They just love them keys.
<tenderlove> Spaceghostc2c: can you just use the Singleton module?
<zenspider> I'm gonna make Pluralton and ensure it is always used in the singular
<Spaceghostc2c> tenderlove: Yeah, but it's stupid easy to accidentally break the singletonness without knowing it.
<zenspider> how?
<zenspider> and why do you think you need that much control over your objects?
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<steveklabnik> heh
<Spaceghostc2c> Without using #send, there's a few ways.
<Spaceghostc2c> zenspider: Because not everyone lives in a hippie commune!
<tenderlove> Spaceghostc2c: you should probably report those as bugs?
<tenderlove> thing is, no matter what you use to make a singleton, there will be a way around it
<erikh> $foo = Object.new # BAM
<Spaceghostc2c> tenderlove: Okay. I'm just assuming if you don't use #send.
<erikh> singleton pattern in one line right there
<zenspider> I don't believe it until I see proof
<Spaceghostc2c> Is there any difference between class level instance variables and class variables.
<Spaceghostc2c> ?
<zenspider> very much so
<Spaceghostc2c> Where could I learn the distinction?
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<erikh> you could even do this: def create_singleton(name, klass); eval("$#{name} = #{klass.name}.new"); end
<zenspider> I start with books... the pickaxe is pretty much mandatory imo
<erikh> metaprogram all the singletons
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<steveklabnik> just googled, didn't read
<Spaceghostc2c> zenspider: Okay, nevermind then. :)
<steveklabnik> <3
<steveklabnik> metaprogramming ruby
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<Spaceghostc2c> tenderlove: Anyways, I was doing things like getting and setting singleton data from an inherited class, or if I do my own singleton stuff for modules, I was able to effectively break the use of the singleton.
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<Spaceghostc2c> I'll go come up with a gist now.
* zzak hugs tenderlove
<ryanf> injekt: oh, ok
<tenderlove> zzak: <3<3<3
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<zenspider> yeah. reading is hard.
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<Spaceghostc2c> zenspider: I'm not going to read a whole book just for a small bit of information. Maybe if I weren't already looking for something. Thanks for the snarky attitude though, I give it to others all the time. <3
<zenspider> because you have to read a whole book in order to figure out any little bit... right.
<Spaceghostc2c> zenspider: Back off. :)
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<steveklabnik> lol
<erikh> ooh wait: def make_singleton(name, obj); const_set(name.upcase, lambda { obj }); end
<erikh> I got a few of these if you want some more
<zenspider> I'll back off as soon as you read a book.
<Spaceghostc2c> tenderlove: What I was hoping to accomplish was to have an anonymous class that encapsulates the methods I need so that it can't be inherited or changed on the singleton.
<steveklabnik> you wouldn't have these questions if you actually read the book ;)
<Spaceghostc2c> steveklabnik: Seriously?
<steveklabnik> "I dont understand ruby metaprogramming, but I don't want to take the time to learn about it."
<zzak> so my cat got caught a real mouse last night
<steveklabnik> ;)
<Spaceghostc2c> steveklabnik: I've bought and read the metaprogramming ruby book many times. :)
<zzak> i am so proud
<steveklabnik> zzak: oh no! did it play with it?
<Spaceghostc2c> zenspider: Now I get why people say the things they do about you. I don't mind it much though.
<zzak> steveklabnik: he was running around with it in his mouth, he's harmless haha
<steveklabnik> heh
<steveklabnik> that shit can get rough
<steveklabnik> cats are brutal
<kuja> Why would you keep buying a book that you already own? That seems silly! </troll> :p
<zzak> i was worried it might have a disease, so i let it escape down the radiator
<zzak> so he clawed and cried all night at the radiator
<Spaceghostc2c> kuja: Lol! :D
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* Spaceghostc2c finds it a bit hilarious that steveklabnik stands up against poor jokes, but likes making fun of people. :D
<zenspider> zzak: how old is your cat?
<steveklabnik> that's becasue there's a difference between 'i dont want to read a book to learn things' and systematic oppression of entire classes of people over the last centuries.
<steveklabnik> ;)
<Spaceghostc2c> tenderlove: So, I queried you about it, if it's not something you care about, let me know.
<Spaceghostc2c> steveklabnik: Fuck off. <3
<Spaceghostc2c> tenderlove: Or don't. Whatevs.
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<zzak> zenspider: a year and a half
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<erikh> SINGLETON_TABLE = Hash.new; def singleton(name, obj); SINGLETON_TABLE[name] = obj.object_id; lambda { ObjectSpace._id2ref(SINGLETON_TABLE[name]) }; end
<erikh> seriously this is the right way to do it
<erikh> don't use the library
<steveklabnik> lol
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<steveklabnik> that's amazing
<Spaceghostc2c> drbrain: I will in the future. I told them to back off about that. It's been a while since I've had to deal with asking people better than me for help.
<zenspider> zzak: yay for killer kitty
<zzak> this is him: http://screencloud.net/v/2mnN working hard or hardly working
<Spaceghostc2c> A dizzying prospect indeed.
<zzak> this is his mommy: http://screencloud.net/v/dRuq
<erikh> zzak: our cat loves to leave us presents
<erikh> occasionally he thinks a squirrel or chipmunk is small enough to deliver as a present
<erikh> and then we get to take him to the vet
<zzak> erikh: you let your kitty outside?
<zzak> :(
<erikh> used to, but it's hard to in this apartment building.
<erikh> he... very much likes being outside
<Spaceghostc2c> On the upside, I did learn the name for def self.waffle; @pan = Pan.new; end;
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<kuja> My cat loves going outside. At least... loves eating the grass in the back yard.
<erikh> in fact he's quite sad that he can't now
<erikh> zenspider: thecatapi.com
<erikh> using it w/ hubot @ work
<steveklabnik> i have recently been hanging around new cats
<steveklabnik> and they make my face cry :(
<steveklabnik> it's pretty terrible
<kuja> Also, cat bringing you dead animals should be considered a good thing :p
<zzak> i would never let him out, but i know he would love it
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<zenspider> zzak: holy crap. that's a dustmop
<zzak> everytime i bring him grass he eats it all and begs to go out
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<zzak> grass is good for their digestion
<erikh> yeah we get grass for the house now
<erikh> "cat grass". you can find it at most pet stores
<erikh> we should be moving soon, though.
<erikh> hopefully we can find a place that's a little more outside pet friendly.
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