ChanServ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 1.9.3-p125: http://ruby-lang.org | Paste >3 lines of text on http://pastie.org or use a gist
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<zzak> Snader_LB: pong
<zzak> whitequark: i could be fibbing
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<whitequark> zzak: hm
<whitequark> that would be really cool :/
<whitequark> that is, to have utf8 everywhere
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<zzak> found what i was thinking of
<zzak> whitequark: naruse added an experimental patch if you want to test it
<zzak> could probably use some benchmarks and testing
<zzak> if you're interested
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<whitequark> zzak: I am. I'll look into it, thanks
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<zzak> whitequark: np, glad you're interested :)
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<manveru> zzak: well, that's a lot less dramatic than i feared :)
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<judofyr> hey folks
<ryanf> hi judofyr, I was just thinking about you :)
<judofyr> aww
<ryanf> I am writing a presenter library and have integrated rumble into it
<ryanf> with a few modifications
<ryanf> so thanks for that
<judofyr> ryanf: I've been working more on it here: https://github.com/camping/mab
<ryanf> oh, I thought mab was older than rumble for some reason
<ryanf> clearly that is not true
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<ryanf> one thing I was wondering is
<ryanf> markaby was notoriously slow, right?
<ryanf> do these new implementations have the same issues at all?
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<judofyr> ryanf: rumble was a quick experiment, Mab is a more complete Markaby replacement
<judofyr> well, it's slower than ERB
<ryanf> interesting
<judofyr> all of these implementations have the issue that they invoke a lot of method calls
<judofyr> ryanf: I experimented with a macro-driven solution some years ago: https://github.com/judofyr/parkaby
<ryanf> I guess it probably doesn't really matter as long as you aren't leaning on it to render an entire page
<ryanf> the stuff I changed in rumble was mostly in the direction of making it more suitable for little helper methods instead of full templates, since that's the use case I have
<Xeago> usin rr to mock: I have to stub out a method on a class that gets called on initialization, and mock another method. How would I do this
<judofyr> Mab/Markaby has the same issues as e.g. tag helpers. I've speed up some Rails pages by moving a #link_to outside a big loop.
<Xeago> current attempt at: http://hastebin.com/tibihapula
<ryanf> uh huh
<judofyr> "<b>#{foo}</b>" is always going to be faster than `b(foo)`
<ryanf> yeah
<ryanf> honestly I was *almost* happy with content_tag, but not being able to put more than one thing in the same block is kind of a deal-breaker :)
<Xeago> newer attempt: http://hastebin.com/lipecuxoqo
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<judofyr> Xeago: hm? there's a method call inside #initialize that you want to mock?
<Xeago> judofyr: yes, the index method has to be stubbed out, it does not exist on the class (due to inheritance)
<Xeago> it should call default_sort_rules after that
<judofyr> Xeago: subclass? foo = Class.new(Klass) { define_method(:index) { … } }
<Xeago> why do that, instead of using rr to stub?
<judofyr> Xeago: because when I need to fight the mock framework, it's sometimes easier to Just Use Ruby™
<judofyr> but YMMV
<judofyr> ryanf: anyway, I need to do some work nopw
<judofyr> brb
<Xeago> okay, I do agree with you, but I am trying to learn ruby and would like to learn the mocking framework, don't want to resort to work-arounds
<ryanf> later
<ryanf> Xeago: to be fair, you probably learn more about ruby by doing something like judofyr suggested than by just using a mocking library
<ryanf> Xeago: anonymous classes and all that
<ryanf> anyway I don't really know anything about rr so I can't really help, sorry
<judofyr> Xeago: ah, sure. I actually think that RR is a very nice mocking framework, but it's been a while since I've used it
<Xeago> I am not that interested in all the reflection parts of ruby, I do like what I've seen so far of it
<Xeago> and I do know rr uses it extensively
<Xeago> more interested in getting experience with exposing my code as a nice dsl
<Xeago> I feel that requires many rewrites before I feel comfortable approaching it
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<rikkus> also slow ;)
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<rikkus> hmm it seems awful
<rikkus> the python one was quite good
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<zzak> manveru: what were you expecting?
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<jMCg> Would be really awesome if getconf variables where more sensibly accessible in ruby :S
<judofyr> jMCg: is there a difference between getconf variables and environment variables?
<jMCg> judofyr: getconf stuff isn't in ENV. ENV variables you get by accessing them, getconf stuff you get by:
<jMCg> foo=`getconf FOO 2>/dev/null`.to_i, then check if foo is sensbible value, if not give it a sensible default.
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<Uranio> there is 2 sqlite gems, one is sqlite3 and other sqlite3-ruby
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<Uranio> wich are the diference?
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<darix> Uranio: the later is obsolete now
<darix> if i recall correctly
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<Uranio> thanks darix
<darix> yeah. it is just a wrapper that calls in the first gem
<darix> for backwards compat
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<Uranio> let me ask, another question...
<Uranio> in iPython, I just to be use "help funciotn"
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<Uranio> how could I dow some thing like that
<Uranio> in irb
<zzak> Uranio: 'help' will initialize an interactive session with ri tool
<Uranio> there is a problem for me.. :(
<Uranio> my HDD is rahter short
<Uranio> (4 GB)
<Uranio> I can't compile the help
<zzak> so no ri docs?
<Uranio> rdoc or ri
<zzak> yeah
<Uranio> nop
<Uranio> nop rdoc and/or ri
<zzak> you hve to use online docs then
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<Uranio> could ri ask for the coment on the flay each time I ask?
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<zzak> i dont think so, you have to compile the documentation ahead of time
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<andrewvos> It would make me very happy if anyone here knows how to get rbfu working with IntelliJ
<manveru> jMCg: wtf is getconf?
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<manveru> ah
<manveru> interesting
<zzak> andrewvos: blasphemy
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<zzak> Uranio: what kind of HDD is it?
<Uranio> :D
<Uranio> IBM
<Uranio> an IBM think pad Pentium-2
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<zzak> does it have usb?
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<manveru> jMCg: iota ~ % ruby -rffi -e 'module X; extend FFI::Library; ffi_lib ["c"]; attach_function :sysconf, :sysconf, [:int], :long; end; p X.sysconf(4)'
<manveru> 1024
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<Uranio> zzak: yes it have, one port and other two more in te extension
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<darix> manveru: lol :p
<darix> manveru: and there is the code for exporting the keywords into ruby so i dont have to know the int index of the information i want to know?:p
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<zzak> Uranio: get yourself a usb flash drive or something
<andrewvos> zzak: I know. I am very sad.
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<manveru> darix: if you know the names, sure
<Uranio> zzak: could be a good idea compile ri docs in the flash (a symlink)
<Uranio> and then use with ri
<Uranio> how could I compile the only ri docs
<Uranio> ??
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<manveru> iota ~ % ruby -rffi -e 'module X; extend FFI::Library; ffi_lib ["c"]; enum [:_SC_ARG_MAX, :_SC_CHILD_MAX]; attach_function :sysconf, :sysconf, [:int], :long; end; p X.sysconf(:_SC_CHILD_MAX)'
<manveru> 30004
<manveru> you just put the ones you need into the enum array
<zzak> Uranio: are you using RVM or system ruby?
<Uranio> I don't know RVM :(
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<Uranio> just compile the ruby from source and get the gems with gem
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<zzak> yeh
<zzak> you can just run rdoc --ri from your source dir then
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<Uranio> I was thinking about indexing and caching rdoc and stackoverflow with mnogosearch
<Uranio> that could make me a strong docs base
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<zzak> you want to cache the entire internet on 4gb?
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<Uranio> I would like to cache stackoverflow and the rdoc downloaded and umcompresed
<Uranio> all stored in 3 4GB pendrive
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<Uranio> rdoc-core and rdoc-stdlib can be downloaded from the site as packeages
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<Uranio> then I strip the js, images and css folder and is very little
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<zzak> why not just generate them?
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<zzak> it will be more accurate, since its generated on the actual source, and not somebody elses
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<zzak> ruby-doc is notorious for documentation flaws because the way it is generated doesn't match normal ruby/rdoc usage
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<Uranio> nice point
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<Uranio> there is a -O and -o option in rdoc...
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<whitequark> hmm
<whitequark> how exactly Array#uniq works?
<whitequark> or, in other words, how do I tell it that these two objects are actually equal?
<whitequark> #eql?.
<erikh> IIRC, yeah
<erikh> either that or ==
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<whitequark> erikh: well, I verified
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<erikh> I always have to look too. Ruby isn't crystal clear when it comes to that kind of stuff
<zzak> whitequark: it uses Object#eql when comparing their hashes
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<totallymike> Hi there. What's a good way to automate testing of pages that load static assets? Specifically when those assets are served by nginx and not the app itself.
<zzak> totallymike: try #rubyonrails
<totallymike> I'm not using rails.
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<ddd> or #sinatra or #ramaze
<ddd> but I would look at: ri Benchmark
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<erikh> use curl or mechanize
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<whitequark> erikh: well, it's not obvious, but it makes a lot of sense indeed
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<whitequark> and it's mostly not obvious because we tend not to think about this at all.
<whitequark> I'm pretty sure that eql? stands for equivalent?, and equal? should have a big fat note "IMPLEMENTATION DEFINED"
<whitequark> it's not even used by Ruby itself AFAIK (unless you count hacks like ObjectSpace and so)
<erikh> it's not obvious because it's not very well documented in a central place.
<whitequark> this too.
<erikh> also none of the calls that use these structual bits fail to indicate what they use in the documentation.
<erikh> ergo, RTFS, which isn't really a solution
<whitequark> it's not. I looked up the source and it wasn't immediately clear for me
<whitequark> even through I have months of experience digging in MRI source
<zzak> for #eql implementation?
<whitequark> zzak: naw, Array#uniq
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<whitequark> it has some deeply nested magic calls which kind of operate an implicit hash inside an array
<whitequark> at first I thought that just reimplementing #hash would be enough
<whitequark> but one should have both #eql? and #hash
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<erikh> zzak: it's not about the calls themselves, but what they semantically associate to and what calls that depend on them actually use
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<erikh> I mean, Array#uniq could have easily used == and nobody would have been the wiser without looking at the uniq source
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<zzak> from ruby-trunk: It compares elements using their hash (provided by the Object#hash method) then compares hashes with Object#eql?.
<erikh> awesome
<erikh> is that in the docs?
<zzak> yeh
<zzak> for Array#uniq
<erikh> you rule.
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<erikh> I need to fix my irc url thingy
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<erikh> long urls are hard to click on.
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<zzak> better?
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<erikh> zzak: hahaha
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<erikh> thanks.
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<zzak> finally i realized i can build ruby-trunk with latest docs and install as system ruby, 'rvm system' and i can ri to my hearts content
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<ridders24> how can i copy all the contents of a public twitter profile including the replies. the twitter API doesnt seem to support including replies in the timeline
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* whitequark . o O ( I hate unix with every Fiber of my being. )
* whitequark has included EM::Synchrony somewhere really, really deep inside him.
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<groszek> Hi. does anyone know a gem that could parse advanced search, such as (q:"foo"|q:"bar")&(n:123|n:333|n:666) into meaningful data, suitable to throw at database? Of course the input is untrusted, so simple regexp+let database handle it won't do...
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<groszek> the exact "language" used in search query doesn't matter, it's just an example. maybe there is something simillar already done?
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<swarley> groszek; that would be something that would have to be handled at the database level
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<swarley> you can't simplify something when you don't know what you're simplifying it for
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<groszek> for now i started writing something that will make sure all key:value pairs match what the database has, cleaning the input from any sql injection.. but i don't think it's very elegant
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<swarley> SQL should have a REGEX module
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<swarley> SQLite at least does
<bougyman> postgres does.
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<groszek> no no, i don't need regex at database level. I want to extract any text input thrown at it into more elegant data, that i could then throw at any ORM
<groszek> if possible
<groszek> just native ruby data, not a SQL in string that i'll just pass to the database
<groszek> welp, that's what I am working on, since I have no better idea, but I don't like that solution ;)
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<swarley> so..
<swarley> what are you doing?..
<swarley> lol
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<swarley> you can't expand regex
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<groszek> well, how would you express something like my example above in pure ruby? assuming the keys are actually variables, or keys in a hash.
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<groszek> i know it would be valid by itself, as a conditional, but it's untrusted data here
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<swarley> what does q: signify?
<groszek> a key called "q"
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<swarley> you could do something like {:q => ["foo", "bar"], :n => [123, 333, 666]} i suppose
<groszek> makes sense; what if we want to allow any number of levels within parenthesis? e.g. (q:foo | (q:bar | n:5 | (n:1 & z:lol)))
<swarley> does nesting matter?
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<groszek> sorry?
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<Mon_Ouie> You could also use Or and And classes to represent those composition types, and a KeyEquality as a primitive check
<swarley> you might want to look into treetop if you're going for syntax that deep
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<groszek> looks promising, i'll check it
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<whitequark> groszek: you do not parse context-free languages with regexen
<whitequark> look at either treetop (simpler) or ragel+racc (faster)
<whitequark> you just cannot parse your language with only regular expressions, as [canonical] regexps (which are called regular because they match regular languages) cannot correctly match anything that includes balanced parentheses (which move the language to, at least, context-free domain)
<whitequark> basically a regexp is an FSM which has a bound number of states, and matching balanced whatever requires an unbound number of states
<whitequark> if your current position is @, then "(@" and "((((@" and "((((((()@" are different states
<whitequark> this problem is solved by adding stack to the mix
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<whitequark> and so, usually this is implemented by bison/yacc/ragel (ragel is the most recent and sane) as "lexer", i.e. the regexp part
<whitequark> errrr
<whitequark> flex/ragel
<whitequark> and bison/yacc/racc (racc is bison for ruby) as "parser", i.e. the stack part
<groszek> heh. I wanted to spend a nice evening writing an advanced search for my webapp ;)
<whitequark> well it's not that hard
<whitequark> take a look at http://github.com/evilmartians/liquor
<whitequark> I've implemented a language parser with ragel+racc there
<groszek> I'm looking into those things, I had some small experience with yacc before and it was giving me nightmares ever since
<groszek> thanks i'll check it
<whitequark> groszek: yacc is kinda nightmarish, yes
<swarley> i hate using bison
<swarley> its just.. confusing
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<whitequark> swarley: you probably just don't grok parsers
<swarley> i can do lex, lex is easy
<swarley> bison though..
<swarley> i know they're different
<swarley> And its just the grammars
<whitequark> they have nothing in common :)
<swarley> I know
<swarley> Not with grammars
<swarley> I'm fine with lexers
<whitequark> well you can't write a language with a regular grammar
<whitequark> you gotta use a context-free one
<swarley> i hate the grammar languages
<whitequark> swarley: no you could not
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<swarley> i could write an LOLCODE implementation :p
<zzak> bison
<whitequark> which means it's CFG
<whitequark> swarley: it has matching begins/ends (IM IN YR LOOP/IM OUTTA YR LOOP)
<swarley> ah
<whitequark> assembly? what
<whitequark> you would probably implement a crude C/F parser with just primitives, which will grow unwieldy very fast
<swarley> well, if you turn it into assembly
<swarley> you can do jmp #{nesting}b
<whitequark> well you could always convert the code with regexps to some other language and then confuse your users with foreign error messages
<whitequark> so they would never, ever, understand what's wrong with the code...
<whitequark> but it has much slimmer codebase
<swarley> i'm not saying its smart to write one without grammar
<swarley> i'm just saying you probably could
<whitequark> groszek: ~200 LOC plus a bit of generated crap
<whitequark> groszek: racc is not significantly better than bison
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<whitequark> swarley: it doesn't count as an implementation then
<whitequark> because your code only works with a different (regular) language
<swarley> whatever
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<injekt> who is ryanf?
<Spaceghostc2c> Who are you?
<injekt> i believe this to be a trick question
<injekt> mommy always said never talk to strangers
<Spaceghostc2c> Can't get anything past you.
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<injekt> corundum: botsnack
<corundum> injekt: schweet!
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<whitequark> I've just realized that one can banish ! operator completely from a programming language and still be able to express arbitrary boolean expressions
<whitequark> given that the `unless' construct is present
<whitequark> and even more importantly, this would lead to significantly more readable code.
* whitequark has tried to understand what exactly "if !group_loop.index > 0" means. it took three attempts.
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<drbrain> whitequark: I have been stumbling through some of that
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<whitequark> or you should read that "intended to mean". obviously that condition is broken and always raises an error
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<pabs> whitequark: in ruby that's an error
<whitequark> pabs: in my homegrown language with operator priorities blatantly stolen from ruby it is as well
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<whitequark> and I believe that practically everywhere ! has higher priority than <=>
<injekt> I know people who don't, nor ever will use 'unless'
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<whitequark> injekt: well, I know people who refuse to program in anything except assembler and Ada
<whitequark> so?..
<headius> I like unless…else…end for maximum confusion factor
<injekt> ^
<whitequark> headius: when used correctly, unless..else is less confusing than the opposite
<injekt> whitequark: that's not really the same thing
<injekt> and I disagree
<headius> whitequark: I can't imagine such a case
<injekt> I think unless is incredibly confusing in 90% of use cases
<whitequark> headius: I can't pull one from the top of my mind, but I did write a few in my life
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<tdy> why use unless if there's an "else"
<headius> any case that does unless…else…end would be better having the bodies flipped and using if
<whitequark> injekt: unless..else maybe, simple unless is definitely not
<groszek> unless !foo != true
<headius> unless is obviously clear in postfix form, and usually clear in block form
<headius> unless…else always twists my brain though
<tdy> yep
<injekt> in postfix form i find it really readable
<tdy> i only like it postfix
<whitequark> groszek: my codegen engine wraps everything in a boolean conversion... like this: if !!(!!(!is_empty(x)) && !!(!is_empty(y)))
<injekt> block is.. okay, else is confusing
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<headius> ttfn
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<erikh> I avoid postfix conditionals and use of unless in large chains of conditionals
<erikh> I don't consider them blasphemy or anything, but it doesn't take running across too many abuses of them to understand why they're to be avoided
<erikh> also: nested ternary
<erikh> but that one's so obvious you should be hurt for thinking it might be a good idea
<groszek> haha... I once wrote an IRC bot entirely in one ternary operator
<groszek> (well, with one infinite loop outside)
<erikh> like, larry wall should just appear from the heavens and lart you to death
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<whitequark> groszek: you can avoid the infinite loop by using callcc.
<groszek> it was in php :P
<whitequark> oh crap
<whitequark> this way it doesn't even matter that it was a ternary one-liner
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<erikh> irc bot, php, nested ternary
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<groszek> actually it's one of the things I'm most proud of, right after recursive lambda in erlang :P
<erikh> I'm scared to see the things you're not proud of
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<whitequark> groszek: recursive lambda? as in K or Y combinator?
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<groszek> something like: A(B)-> C=fun(D, E)-> D(D, E) end, C(C, B).
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<whitequark> groszek: yeah, that's the K combinator
<groszek> I'm not really familiar with the term, it's been long since I touched erlang and never got too good with it..
<groszek> (and math isn't my thing either, hihi.)
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