ChanServ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 1.9.3-p125: http://ruby-lang.org | Paste >3 lines of text on http://pastie.org or use a gist
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<erikh> andrewvos: isn't that more or less exactly what carlhuda did too?
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<zzak> tagbar is sweet
<zzak> i have toggle bound to F4, right next to nerdtree toggle
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<Darkdata> Er, Hello?
<Darkdata> I've just started learning ruby, and I was wondering if I could bother someone with a question?
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<Darkdata> Well, I just leave my text/question here https://gist.github.com/3869692 if anyone wants to help, just give me a poke.
<Darkdata> (Added missing linebreaks)
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<vbatts> Darkdata: === is a class equality operator
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<Darkdata> Ah, I saw (1...10) === 5 returns true as an example, and I thought it would work for arrays as well.
<Darkdata> Thanks vbatts, though I am still curious why it changes the results of years and github expierence?
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<vbatts> ha, where did i get class equality from?!
* vbatts is confused
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<Darkdata> Yeah, I get it now
<vbatts> sorry to confus :-)
<Darkdata> and since === returned false/nil, all of the values came back null
<Darkdata> thus making years and github false
<Darkdata> not null, but false
<Darkdata> typos everywhere tonight.
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<andrewvos> erikh: Not sure
<andrewvos> erikh: Oh you mean with that Rails installer KickStarter?
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<andrewvos> OHHH YOU MEAN JANUS
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<rue|w> AKA anus
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<andrewvos> Bwahahaha rue, so civilized.
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<andrewvos> Know that one?
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<seydar> Mon_Ouie: ping
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<Mon_Ouie> seydar: pong
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<seydar> Mon_Ouie: as if i haven't said it enoguh before, i'm loving coolline
<Mon_Ouie> :)
<seydar> i just upgraded to head so i could use the menu to display completion information
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<seydar> but totally unrelated bug/thing
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<seydar> normally, you can buffer STDIN. while a program is loading, if you type a shittonne of characters before the first #gets call is made, #gets will pull from the characters you typed before
<seydar> HOWEVER
<seydar> this is not the case with coolline
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<seydar> i suspect it is because coolline uses io/console
<seydar> and getch
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<Mon_Ouie> I see what you mean. I noticed it before, and also assumed that was why it happened.
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<seydar> also, is there any harm in NOT using Coolline#print to display output information? am i secretly stepping on toes?
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<Mon_Ouie> Coolline#print is just more convenient than remembering to use output.print
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<zzak> good morning!
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<Mon_Ouie> As far as Coolline is concerned @output doesn't have to be $stdout
<seydar> k. for my purposes i'm fine, then. thank you
<seydar> and what's the protocol for NOT displaying a menu?
<Mon_Ouie> The menu is only displayed when menu.string isn't empty
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<seydar> also, do you have any issues with the cursor being displayed in the middle of the menu string?
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<seydar> it's at the appropriate column for where the user types, but it's on the wrong line
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<Mon_Ouie> No, it appears just fine here
<Mon_Ouie> Oh, wait, I have uncomitted changes
<seydar> is this something you noticed and addressed recently?
<Mon_Ouie> Actually, no, my local changes should be unrelated to that
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<seydar> Mon_Ouie: gah, then why do i suck
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<seydar> Mon_Ouie: coolline.rb:252, it should say "go_to(line_no, [prompt_size + @pos + 1, width].min)"
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<seydar> and line_no should be the line number before the @menu.display call
<seydar> i have no idea how to compute that though. sorry for failing you
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<Mon_Ouie> Normally, Menu#display is setup to go back to the right line
<Mon_Ouie> menu.rb: 58: [lines.size, height].min.times { go_to_previous_line }
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<seydar> interesting.
<seydar> not what i'm experiencing at all
<seydar> i also can't get the menu to not display from the completion proc
<seydar> well dur, because it's being manually set outside of it
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<seydar> but it'd be sweet if i had the option to not have the "no completions found" thing pop up
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<roadt> def initialize(*) ; super; end hi, why raw * is here as constructor argument, what does it mean?
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<Mon_Ouie> roadt: It's the same as initialize(*args), but it doesn't store the arguments in a variable, it just accepts them
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<Mon_Ouie> They are implictly passed to super
<roadt> Mon_Ouie, ah, ok, thanks.
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<matti> Mon_Ouie: Ohai :)
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<Mon_Ouie> 'alut
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<sent-hil> how do i tell if my ruby has been built with gdb debug support?
<rue|w> Run it in gdb
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<Mon_Ouie> Unless you explicitly asked it to, it's unliked to be
<Mon_Ouie> unlikely*
<sent-hil> rue|w: like gdb ruby file.rb"
<sent-hil> *?
<faces> probably gdb ruby then run whatever.rb or run -Ilib whatever.rb, i dont even know what compiled with ruby support means
<faces> gdb*
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<sent-hil> faces: that worked
<faces> excellent!
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<sent-hil> is it possible to set a break point in file.rb?
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<faces> i don't think so, you might be able to make a syscall and break on that, but I haven't actually tried debugging with gdb
<sent-hil> faces: ah, thx :)
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<faces> there used to be ruby-debug/rdb, but i'm not sure if that's maintained anymore
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<sent-hil> i remember pry having a plugin that showed c stack trace
<sent-hil> i guess i can try to find out which fxs are called and then set break on them
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<rue|w> Why are you using gdb?
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<sent-hil> rue|w: so i can learn about ruby's internals
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<zzak> use the source
<sent-hil> yep, trying to step by it line by line in gbd
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<sent-hil> i want to setup a break point in a function in ruby's source
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<sent-hil> i believe i would load gdb <output> file, so where do i find the output file for ruby
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<matti> sent-hil: Debugging Ruby with pure gdb is not an easy task.
<sent-hil> matti: how else would i learn about the internals of ruby source?
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<zzak> read the source
<Mon_Ouie> gdb ruby; b foo.c:line; r some_file.rb
<sent-hil> zzak: deja vu?
<erikh> gem install gdb.rb
<erikh> it can help
<matti> +1 gdb.rb
<sent-hil> is it still maintained?
<erikh> yes, I believe so.
<sent-hil> installing now
<sent-hil> erikh: thx
<erikh> looks like it might need some massage to work with 1.9.3, though.
<sent-hil> ah damn 'Only x86 linux is supported (for now)'
<erikh> oh, lovely.
<erikh> gdb.rb is just a set of gdb macros, you likely could take some of it in bits and pieces for your needs
<erikh> short of that, RTFS is probably the right suggestion
<matti> Trying to use gdb to learn how Ruby works when you have source code?
<matti> That's like...
<sent-hil> erikh: yep, doing that, but i'm very new to c and can't understand it without some interactiveness
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<matti> Hey Ruby hackers
<matti> Is there a way to tell RDoc to get lost and don't produce link for every "each" word in comments?
<zzak> injekt: ping!
<matti> Ohai zzak
<zzak> matti: what do you mean?
<erikh> sent-hil: I'll be very frank
<erikh> if you're still getting comfortable with C, MRI's source is probably the last place you want to go
<matti> Haha
<matti> erikh: :)
<matti> So very true
<sent-hil> that bad?
<matti> Complex
<matti> Not bad.
<erikh> it'll teach you some pretty bad habits.
<erikh> lua's source is pretty nice if you want a similar project.
<matti> Also, don't look at Kernel source.
<erikh> or gc.c
<erikh> or st.c
<erikh> etc
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<matti> Haha
<sent-hil> lol
<erikh> anyhow, really, there are better things to learn from. a lot better.
<erikh> sqlite's source is pretty awesome (and extremely well commented and tested)
<sent-hil> well i want to learn ruby's internals
<matti> zzak: I have #each, and it produces link to it every time I use work "each" now ;d
<erikh> well, the high level overview is in README.EXT
<matti> zzak: Which is kind of funny ;d
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<erikh> start there if you haven't already.
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<matti> erikh: That is not very internals.
<sent-hil> erikh: yea i've been reading that and that awesome doc by Thronton
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<sent-hil> release integration
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<sent-hil> i don't know what it's called
<matti> ?
<sent-hil> Ruby Hacker's Guide
<erikh> matti: if you're looking to pick apart YARV, no, but outside of that most of the ruby source is just a reflection of its public API
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<erikh> with notable exceptions of course
<matti> erikh: A point you have, I guess :)
<matti> erikh: But to honest, I learned more about how to solve problems with C API when reading other things.
<matti> erikh: README.EXT was good to scratch the tip.
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<zzak> matti: wrap it in +
<zzak> that will break the link
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<matti> zzak: I did.
<matti> zzak: +1
<matti> ;]
<zzak> mkmf.rb docs are pretty good too ;)
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<matti> Good point.
<matti> zzak: It is idiomatic to prefix functions names in C that are used from within Ruby with rb_?
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<zzak> generally, but as long as you use rb_define_method or rb_define_* it's pretty straight forward
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<rue> rb_ for anything intended to be interface
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<matti> I've noticed that Ruby i.e. dir.c etc
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<matti> Will have a lot of internal functions to do heavy lifting.
<matti> And then one tiny rb_ which they use later in rb_define_method.
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<zzak> yeh
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<zzak> good example of that is Array#reject and Array#reject!
<zzak> rb_ary_reject and rb_ary_reject_bang
<matti> Yeah.
<matti> Precisely.
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<sent-hil> is it my editor or the ruby source badly formatted?
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<sent-hil> the indentation is all screwed up
<sent-hil> err
<yxhuvud> that looks like the default way to indent c in emacs, so I'd say it is perfectly normal. your editor seems to have hardcoded tab to be 2 spaces though, which doesn't look very nice together with 4 space indent.
<zzak> ruby's C source tends to have a mixture in some places
<zzak> but that looks like it could be your editor
<sent-hil> ah
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<yxhuvud> zzak: the default way in emacs is to mix tabs and spaces. 4 space indent, but exchange double indentation for tab.
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<yxhuvud> (I doubt emacs originated it btw)
<zzak> yeh
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<MouseTheLuckyDog> I would like to convert an integer to a string 4 characters long, with leading 0's padding the string.
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<havenn> MouseTheLuckyDog: How many characters might an integer be? Always four or less?
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<darix> "%04i" % 10
<MouseTheLuckyDog> havenn, If it isn't then I am in trouble.
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<MouseTheLuckyDog> darix, ? I get the "%04i" but not the rest.
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<erikh> %04d
<darix> [1] pry(main)> "%04i" % 10
<darix> => "0010"
<erikh> wtf is i? just a synonym for d?
<darix> MouseTheLuckyDog: your question answered?
<erikh> damnit you're going to make me look, aren't you
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<darix> erikh: yes
<erikh> neat
<darix> MouseTheLuckyDog: for the long version see http://ruby-doc.org/core-1.9.3/Kernel.html#method-i-sprintf
<darix> the nice thing is with the % thing you dont need sprintf
<MouseTheLuckyDog> darix: yeah cool.
<darix> for multiple arguments pass them as array.
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<darix> of@
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<elux> hi everyone
<elux> im trying to figure out how to do this dynamically.... asset.array_object << another_obj sorta like asset.send(:"array_object<<", another_obj) .. or whatever
<elux> cant seem to figure it out
<elux> hrmm maybe ill just use push()
<apeiros_> you're calling two methods.
<apeiros_> .array_object and .<<
<elux> indeed
<apeiros_> there is no `array_method<<` method.
<elux> yes i kno :) i tried lol
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<apeiros_> send only invokes *one* method
<apeiros_> not a whole chain. but you can chain sends.
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<elux> asset.send(:another_array).send(:<<, "blah") ?
<darix> somehow i would be interested why so complicated in the first place?
<elux> not that important.. just some parser / object building stuff
<elux> im building a dsl for parsing different kinds of xml / json data structures
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<manveru> > a = [1,2,3]; chain = [[:reverse], [:<<, 4]]; chain.inject(a){|s,v| s.send(*v) }
<manveru> => [3, 2, 1, 4]
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<apeiros_> the problem got *manverized*!
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<manveru> as if i could resist :)
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<zzak> TM
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<erikh> holy crap it's manveru
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<bougyman> we were just gossiping about him, he felt it
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<erikh> bougyman: I know, right? superhuman.
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<manveru> i've been watching this channel since before i knew ruby :)
<Spaceghostc2c> manveru: Not long then, eh? (totally kidding) :p
<manveru> :)
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<erikh> so much caremad
<erikh> so angry
<freedrull> you disagree with their style?
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<erikh> a lot of it, yes.
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<drbrain> IIRC, in 1.8 for was faster than each
<drbrain> … and for is syntax, so no indirection is added
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<lianj> "The and and or keywords are banned. It's just not worth it. Always use && and || instead." ^^
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<whitequark> lianj: you won't believe how much they are misused
<whitequark> with disastrous consequences
<havenn> I disagree that &&/|| versus and/or is difficult. Precedence is easy, hardly the 'hard' part of Ruby. I disagree that unless/else is confusing, we use it in English. Having 'private' before a method without a hard return is not idiomatic, I'm curious of the reasoning.
<manveru> drbrain: for still calls each
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<drbrain> manveru: yes, but in 1.8 scope creation was expensive
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<ryanf> huh? who uses "unless" and "else" in the same sentence in english?
<ryanf> I'd be interested to see an example
<manveru> drbrain: true
<zenspider> I do
<manveru> but back then the argument was... if you want to write fast programs, don't use ruby :)
<zenspider> I also always prefer to put my nominal case first, and sometimes that is best said with unless.
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<whitequark> I personally only disagree with 80-column limit and the strange last statement about regexps
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<whitequark> unless/else is sometimes idiomatic, but often not
<havenn> ryanf: Unless you drop your gun I'll kill the hostage, else(wise) I'll just walk away.
<havenn> ryanf: Okay, I suck at clear hostage-taking...
<ryanf> :)
<whitequark> havenn: people come from Python and write crappy code all around. this IS difficult for some, and this leads to nasty bugs.
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<whitequark> having partly cleaned a project from tens of misused and/or's, I'll never ever will recommend using that to anyone.
<havenn> whitequark: I guess I think it easier to memorize precedence than to avoid the language implementation. I'm more comfy with 'avoid unless you understand' than 'offlimits'.
<zenspider> I like and/or personally.
<ddd> I don't understand the "Never leave trailing whitespace." but I almost always end a file with an extra return. Though I do it because I think it 'looks' better (and easier to just start typing when you move to the end of the file) though thats clearly a subjective opinion.
<whitequark> ddd: trailing return isn't trailing whitespace, and is considered a good practice by some
<ddd> oh you mean like a space or a tab
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<ddd> got it
<anannie> Does anyone know about a set of programming exercises I can do to get my programming chops right? Is there perhaps a list of apps I can build inductively, each more complex than the last?
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<ddd> am I wrong for putting a blank line after my context "blah" do lines in my specs, but *not* in my it "blah" do lines?
<andrewvos> yes
<zenspider> anannie: you can try out the ruby koans or project euler
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<zenspider> anannie: wha is your current programming experience?
<zenspider> what... gah
<anannie> zenspider: Almost nil. I'm up to Zed Shaw's Learn Ruby The Hard Way
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<zenspider> anannie: you might want to take a look at chris pine's book then
<zenspider> corundum_: chris pine's book?
<zenspider> drbrain: kick corundum_ ?
<zenspider> anannie: http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/
<havenn> anannie: tryruby.org is fun, and codecademy just put out a Ruby track though I haven't tried it
<anannie> zenspider: Found it. I feel the urge to build things, will it help me get there?
<anannie> havenn: I chose Zed Shaw's book instead because it seemed like a more gradual introduction to things and therefore more thorough
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<ddd> andrewvos: why? like I put blank line after my class MyClass line but not in my def my_method line but I do after end for that def and for the class. (just looks 'neater' to me) and in the context "blah" do it also highlights the it blocks' indentation a bit. just my take on it. looks neater and cleaner to me.
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<anannie> zenspider: Did you write the zombie simulation?
<havenn> anannie: The Hard Way often isn't idiomatic Ruby, but it is valid Ruby. I'd consider it as confusing as _why's Poignant Guide but less poignant or poetic.
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<havenn> anannie: And no soundtrack!
<anannie> zenspider: One night I was trying to find some code to read and for fun I tried to search up a zombie simulator and lo and behold it existed. That made my night and suddenly programming seemed funny.
<havenn> anannie: zenspider is of seattle.rb fame, the envylabs guys did zombie labs (if that is what you mean, for all I know zenspider simulates zombies as well >.>): http://railsforzombies.org/ vs http://www.seattlerb.org/
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<anannie> havenn: What do you think I should use instead?
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<drbrain> I had to restart corundum, it wouldn't respond to my nick command ☹
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<anannie> havenn: It's interesting how people have conflicting recommendations
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<anannie> havenn: but with a large enough sample size you can grok what the zeitgeist is and learn from there.
<havenn> anannie: If you know another scripting language, I can see how it'd be a parachute. From scratch, I'd prefer straight idiomatic Ruby.
<anannie> havenn: I don't know how to program at all.
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<anannie> havenn: Let's say I'm a tabula rasa
<anannie> (I actually don't and I have no opinions right now. I'm unbiased.)
<anannie> All I've done is go through Zed Shaw's book and tried to get a handle on the language
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<havenn> anannie: I agree with Ruby Koans recommendation (online version is easier but less realistic testing). PS - Would be nice to have a MiniTest version of Ruby Koans.
<havenn> Seems fairly easy to port?
<havenn> I've always been bothered how the expected and actual seem reversed in Koans.
<andrewvos> ddd: That's what indentation is for. You'll get used to it eventually.
<andrewvos> Do put spaces after 'end' though.
<erikh> wasn't ruby koans in minitest originally? at least, I seem to remember it being that wya.
<erikh> maybe I'm thinking of rails for zombies
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<andrewvos> erikh: I think it used Test::Unit
<havenn> erikh: Yeah, I think Koans has always been Test::Unit, I started porting to MiniTest but never got far.
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<andrewvos> erikh: Or even its own test code.
<andrewvos> havenn: You wrote koans?
<havenn> erikh: Naw, just Test::Unit that works 1.8 && 1.9
<havenn> andrewvos: Nooo, I didn't.
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<havenn> andrewvos: Jim Weirich & Joe O'Brien
<andrewvos> Oh ok
<erikh> ah
<andrewvos> Is Jim the Rake guy?
<erikh> yes
<andrewvos> Oh
<andrewvos> Why is it that test people make such cool stuff? I wish I made cool stuff.
<andrewvos> test=these
<andrewvos> Wow, that could have been an argument on TDD. Averted.
<erikh> well, T::U actually comes from smalltalk and rake has been done numerous times in other languages, ruby is really the star there
<erikh> I still wonder if the tsort standard lib existed before or after rake and if before, why it was not used
<andrewvos> No I mean in general.
<drbrain> erikh: before
<erikh> why didn't he use tsort?
<erikh> mostly curious, not criticizing.
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<drbrain> I don't know, he didn't use it for RubyGems either
<drbrain> likely he didn't know it was there and knows how to do a topological sort from memory
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<zenspider> anannie: yeah. I did a zombie epidemic simulator in ruby w/ gosu (and SDL before that)
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<anannie> zenspider: :D Thanks for making that, it somehow inspired me. I want to get to the point where I can whip together a zombie epidemic simulator at whim
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<erikh> drbrain: fair 'nuff
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<richardjortega> how would i convert the UTC time of "1349997021" to a readable time string in ruby?
<matti> richardjortega: Time.at
<richardjortega> matti: thank you so much!!!
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<mistergibson> I'm messing with the include statement. Question: is there any limit to how many nested module elements I can have in This::Path::To::My::Module::For::MixIn ?
<mistergibson> because oddly enough, and although no syntax errors are thrown - the methods do not show up in the mixed-in namespace ...
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<matti> :>
<mistergibson> ah, answered my own q ... cheers all :)
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<zenspider> anannie: no prob
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