DocScrutinizer05 changed the topic of #qi-hardware to: Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs and http://irclog.whitequark.org/qi-hardware
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<DocScrutinizer05> heat dissipation is the key limiting factor
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<whitequark> dos1: flash on SGS2 could actually be turned on for at least half an hour without any permanent damage
<whitequark> and maybe longer
<whitequark> and it would actually (temporarily) burn in your retina from 1.5m, so it's pretty bright
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<astr> how many degrees would you say these leds are? 45° ?
<whitequark> um
<whitequark> it would get really hot
<whitequark> more like 60?
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<astr> whitequark, sorry not temperature, umm... angle of the light coming out of the led
<astr> is that 60°C or °F
<astr> i guess °C
<whitequark> yes
<whitequark> no idea about the angle
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<DocScrutinizer05> whitequark: in HH?
<whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: hm? what in hh?
<DocScrutinizer05> astr: beam opening angle is obviously meant to have a uniform brightness of what the camera shoots. So for the usual F of a mobile cam more like 60°
<DocScrutinizer05> whitequark: wasn't that hardware hacking congress this weekend?
<whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: EHSM, yes. if you meant to ask whether I'm in Hamburg, then I'm there for 26-30 June
<whitequark> right now at EHSM, in fact.
<DocScrutinizer05> mhm
<DocScrutinizer05> greetings from Doc to whomever it may concern! :-)
<whitequark> I only really know the people who are also at #qi-hw...
<whitequark> full neo900 schematics?
<DocScrutinizer05> not exactly full
<DocScrutinizer05> protoV2
<DocScrutinizer05> comprehensive peripherals test version
<DocScrutinizer05> "Accelerometer" to "Zener of backlight booster"
<DocScrutinizer05> no SoC yet
<whitequark> thanks... I'll take a look a bit later
* DocScrutinizer05 watches DTM races in TV, took a 20 min to realize the Live TV is from only a 3km distance @.@
* DocScrutinizer05 listens out the kitchen window
<DocScrutinizer05> qualifying only
<astr> DocScrutinizer05, thanks
<astr> oh and thx whitequark
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<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: you should watch .cl vs. br. amazing match. both teams very strong and playing as if the loser would face a firing squad.
<DocScrutinizer05> watched parts of it
<DocScrutinizer05> for all I know the loser could end in hell. NFC about that event actually
<DocScrutinizer05> not even know if they fight for going to next round
<DocScrutinizer05> anyway time for a bit of shopping before shops close
<wpwrak> this is the 1/8 finals. so the loser goes home, the winner moves to the 1/4.
<wpwrak> damn. they're going into an extension. how will i do my shopping, if .uy vs. .co is just two hours away from now ?
<wpwrak> (loser going to hell) well, if the loser is brazil, that's pretty much the outlook. that world cup also has a significant political dimension in brazil. a lot of brazilians are not happy at all with the dubious infrastructure work that had been done.
<wpwrak> (dubious) e.g., gigantic stadiums that will have no use once the world cup is over.
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<wpwrak> and after the extension still 1:1, now the penalties ... impressive
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<whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: so remember your laser printer idea?
<whitequark> EHSM features just such a machine
<whitequark> err
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<whitequark> direct UV exposure with laser printer
<DocScrutinizer05> sure, i always remember my ideas
<DocScrutinizer05> and I'm used to find them done by somebody else
<whitequark> it doesn't use a lens at all (I think they correct in software)
<whitequark> also a single line of exposure is 80 rotations of the mirror
<whitequark> so you get about 150µm of resolution due to slight variations in speed
<DocScrutinizer05> :-)
<DocScrutinizer05> how do they create the UV laser? blueray?
<whitequark> seems like a typical consumer laser
<DocScrutinizer05> o.O
<whitequark> well
<whitequark> here's it.
<DocScrutinizer05> never heard of blue consumer lasers
<DocScrutinizer05> well, UV consmer lasers
<whitequark> oh
<whitequark> actually I didn't either
<whitequark> sadly I missed the talk, I should ask the guy tomorrow
<DocScrutinizer05> prolly slaughtering a blueray drive (or get one of those LEDs) could do the trick
<whitequark> oh. no need. "Thus, the IR laser diode was replaced by a (much stronger) UV laser diode (~1.5W, 445nm) from eBay."
<DocScrutinizer05> mhm
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<whitequark> definitely thinking about building one, because I'm kinda tired of fiddling with photonegatives
<DocScrutinizer05> nice :)
<DocScrutinizer05> you'll love it
<whitequark> also there is a LOT of people interested in reproducible pcb photolitography
<whitequark> actually two of them (100% of people I've talked to about this) also want homebrew multilayer
<whitequark> and one already has working copper plating method using graphite-based ink
<whitequark> I didn't find it earlier because it was in french...
<DocScrutinizer05> another typ of the Doc: to check out the exposure and all, you can use a sheet of phosphorescent plastic
<whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: there's actually no need for that. the photoresist very visibly changes color when exposed
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, but it costs real money
<DocScrutinizer05> while for a quick go/nogo check you rather want to use sth cheaper
<whitequark> eh, it's cheap, perhaps even cheaper than phosphorescent plastic + delivery
<whitequark> quite sure it IS cheaper
<whitequark> for like ten cm² of board, it's maybe a dozen cents
<DocScrutinizer05> no it's not since you discard it after use
<whitequark> I could use cat piss, it's phosphorescent too
<DocScrutinizer05> no, it's fluorescent
<whitequark> actually cat piss is THE reason consumer UV lamps are sold
<whitequark> oh
<DocScrutinizer05> like any piss
<whitequark> right, fluo/phosphorescent, I always mix it up
<whitequark> I now see what you mean
<whitequark> mmmm, still need to buy it
<DocScrutinizer05> get a emergency exit plastic sign
<DocScrutinizer05> backside should be fine for this usecase
<whitequark> never seen phosphorescent ones
<DocScrutinizer05> since you never searched for them
<DocScrutinizer05> fluorescent plastic comes in all forms and colors
<DocScrutinizer05> for pretty cheap
<DocScrutinizer05> err phosphorescent
<whitequark> ;D
<whitequark> ok I'll look
<whitequark> also these people were quite happy with my extensive documentation, and I'll probably be collaborating on documenting a complete modern homebrew PCB process with one of them later
<whitequark> so I guess the work that went into lab.wq.org just paid off
<whitequark> 20 EUR, I could buy several square meters of resist
<whitequark> OH
<whitequark> wait, I just realized what you're actually suggesting
<whitequark> you're suggesting this to debug optics
<whitequark> I'm dumb.
<whitequark> yes, indeed I would want something like that
<whitequark> thanks
<DocScrutinizer05> yw
<whitequark> I've seen so many laser cut parts at the ehsm
<whitequark> I now want a laser cutter pretty badly
<whitequark> you see, there's a lot of cases laser cut
<whitequark> in fact I have seen a case with rounded (d=40mm) corners made out of five pieces of acrylic and no glue at all
<DocScrutinizer05> of course for exact tests a proper 10MP camera with infinite exposure time (can get simulated in software by adding 0.5s snapshots) and a plain sheet of paper works too
<whitequark> one top plate, one bottom plate, a plate with a lot of thin slits that is bent around, and two more plates to latch top+bottom
<whitequark> I could never make stuff like that with a mill, the cutters just don't work like that
<whitequark> and even very simple cases with tabbed edges won't work, because I have to manually file down every corner and it just sucks
<DocScrutinizer05> wait till you see the presentation of real professional grade 3D printing, e.g. with a bath of UV curing cyanometacrylate
<whitequark> kickstarter is full of SLS 3D printers
<DocScrutinizer05> or metal sintering 3D printer
<whitequark> in a year or two they will be very cheap
<whitequark> and in fact a presenter at EHSM was going to build a metal sintering 3D printer using his electron beam welder
<whitequark> he even tried it with zinc oxide, but it just shat all over the vacuum chamber and into the pump
<DocScrutinizer05> lol
<whitequark> a great guy from Warsaw. invited me into his lab
<whitequark> that reminds me, I need to book a hotel...
<DocScrutinizer05> recently a company doing professional metal 3D for aeronautic etc (!!!) wen IPO (stock exchange)
<whitequark> heard
<whitequark> I think
<DocScrutinizer05> their printers are a tad expensive
<whitequark> there's a gaping hole where all the DIY metal sintering printers should be
<DocScrutinizer05> yup
<whitequark> I just wish vacuum equipment was cheaper
<DocScrutinizer05> I wonder if sputtering could get done
<whitequark> you need something heavy to sputter with
<whitequark> and that's probably really expensive
<whitequark> I mean, sputtering is apparently done using gold ions or smth like this
<whitequark> argon, too, but it's not as efficient
<DocScrutinizer05> or (attention, *weird*) vaporizing
<whitequark> and really expensive
<DocScrutinizer05> maybe the metal atoms could even get transported exactly into place by an electron beam?
<whitequark> so you'd make the workpiece the cathode?
<DocScrutinizer05> prolly only feasible for *really* tiny objects
<DocScrutinizer05> yup
<whitequark> I think the problem is that if you want it fast, you'd need high beam current
<whitequark> and that melts / destroys workpiece
<DocScrutinizer05> yup
<whitequark> maybe if you machine, idk, wolfram
<whitequark> tungsten?
<DocScrutinizer05> well, the trick is to make the workpiece get hot enough to have nice integration of the metal atoms into a crystal, but not melt the whole thing down
<whitequark> uh, I don't think you can grow a crystal like that
<whitequark> it would be incredibly stressed
<DocScrutinizer05> metal is a crytal maze, no?
<whitequark> you'd have a very, very, very imperfect crystal
<DocScrutinizer05> unless it's molten
<DocScrutinizer05> yes, sure
<whitequark> you could anneal it afterwards, I guess
<whitequark> damn. so many cool ideas to work on
<DocScrutinizer05> I'm more worried about effects like xray secondary radiation when operating with such types of electron beams ;-)
<whitequark> that's at 10kv and higher
<DocScrutinizer05> even 30
<DocScrutinizer05> how do you create an electron beam of several Ampere strength?
<whitequark> a big power supply?
<whitequark> I mean, there's not exactly a limit. you can pump hundreds of amperes into a xenon continuous discharge lamp
<DocScrutinizer05> aaah, right, it might have a impedance like a gas discharge lamp
<whitequark> same principle here
<whitequark> but you need very precise pressure control
<whitequark> too high, and it sparks. too low, and beam dies
<DocScrutinizer05> I was thinking absolute vacuum
<whitequark> no beams in absolute vacuum
<whitequark> and no such thing too
<DocScrutinizer05> uhß
<DocScrutinizer05> ?
<whitequark> well
<DocScrutinizer05> what's that Braunsche Roehre then, CRT?
<whitequark> any vacuum you can achieve on earth is not even close to simply outer space
<whitequark> hm
<whitequark> brb, laptop discharged
<whitequark> back
<whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/crt/crt6.htm
<whitequark> this guy explicitly says that if the pressure is too low, the CRT won't work
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<DocScrutinizer05> sorry, for all I ever heard that's mere bs
<whitequark> hm
<whitequark> maybe
<whitequark> oh, I realized the mistake
<whitequark> you would only need some ions if you want cold cathode
<whitequark> for hot cathode you can indeed have any kind of vacuum
<DocScrutinizer05> for CRT in former times you even had ion traps to keep any residual gas atom in the CRT from damaging the fluorescent paint
<DocScrutinizer05> nowadays vacuum is good enough so they don't need it anymore
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<DocScrutinizer05> unlike the electrons the ions don't get diverted that much by the magnetic field, due to higher mass, and thus created a dark spot in center of CRT screen
<whitequark> why would ions be accelerated towards the screen?
<DocScrutinizer05> err, dunny, maybe because they are also electrically charged? Or because the electrons simply "kick" then?
<DocScrutinizer05> see electromigration
<DocScrutinizer05> dunno*
<whitequark> I mean, the ions should be accelerated into the opposite direction
<whitequark> electrons kicking them... hmmm, maybe that
<DocScrutinizer05> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathodenstrahlröhre#Strahlerzeugung >>Im nebenstehenden Bild ist das Strahlsystem einer veralteten Fernsehbildröhre mit Ionenfalle zu sehen. <<
<whitequark> I see
<DocScrutinizer05> I was wrong regarding why it's not needed anymore though. The fix been a 0.2µm alu coating on the phosphor
<DocScrutinizer05> electron tubes have a barium pill that gets ignited after production, to absorb all remaining gas atoms/molecules
<whitequark> yeah, know about that
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<wpwrak> and now, for some conspiracy theory that would surprise even The Onion: http://worldtruth.tv/rothschild-inherits-a-semiconductor-patent-for-freescale-semiconductors/
<wpwrak> note how they beautifully mix three at best vaguely related products / processes ;-)
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