DocScrutinizer05 changed the topic of #qi-hardware to: Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs and http://irclog.whitequark.org/qi-hardware
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<nicksydney> wpwrak: (anelok review) done bit of review and have some questions https://gist.github.com/nanikjava/395357705316e45bf3f4
<nicksydney> wpwrak: can you leave comments in the gist ?
<nicksydney> will do some more review and will have some questions later :)
<wpwrak> hmm, you should number them since i can't edit your stuff
<nicksydney> ok let me change iot
<nicksydney> done
<wpwrak> thanks !
<wpwrak> answered :)
<nicksydney> nice :)...going to post somemore after work :)
<nicksydney> wpwrak: ok can't help myself but to asked more questions in the same gist
<nicksydney> thanks
<wpwrak> answered :)
<wpwrak> i'm not sure whether i got your real question in each case. so if i didn't answer it, please ask again (there or here)
<nicksydney> ok
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<nicksydney> wpwrak: was thinking are you planning to do a trial run of the board using service like seeedstudio ?
<nicksydney> btw is the board 5x5 in size or more ? if it's 5x5cm it will cost $10 :)
<whitequark> I wonder how quickly (if at all) mail goes CN->AR
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<nicksydney> no sorry this one
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<DocScrutinizer05> roh: ping
<nicksydney> wpwrak: added few more questions to the gist
<nicksydney> Get Cypress PSoC 4 MCUs for $1 Delivered to Your Door by Fedex http://www.cnx-software.com/2014/06/04/get-cypress-psoc-4-mcus-for-1-delivered-to-your-door-by-fedex/
<nicksydney> OV965x (Camera) Breakout Board https://github.com/iabdalkader/OV965x
<wpwrak> nicksydney: the (combined) board is currently 30 x 66 mm. for installation, you'd cut it and make the two parts overlap by 2 mm, so the assembly is 30 x 64 mm and the case then 33 x 67 mm
<nicksydney> wpwrak: bit confuse.....combined board ?
<wpwrak> whitequark: CN->AR is fairly quick. the problem now is what AR customs will let through. actually, i wish all the businesses that are suffering badly under this nonsense would get together, collect money for a capable assassin, and rid us of the one guy who's behind all this.
<nicksydney> CC2541 from taobao is cost 8yuan http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.155.FGKXLR&id=37658686332&ns=1#detail while in Digikey it's cost $5 ..WTF !
<whitequark> wpwrak: thought it
<wpwrak> nicksydney: (seed) dunno. there are many pcb-making services. if it just want a few pcbs, it's probably easier to get them made locally. that is' unless i want to check the work of a specific fab for MP.
<wpwrak> (cc2541) but we use cc2543 ;-)
<wpwrak> (gist) let's see ...
<wpwrak> (gist) answered :)
<nicksydney> http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20140604/356165/ NHK Develops 133-Mpixel CMOS Sensor for 8k4k Video
<nicksydney> wpwrak: thanks
<nicksydney> wpwrak: i thought from TI website I read that CC2543 is not labelled as BLE so that's why I thought Anelok will not be using BLE :)
<nicksydney> that's why i was looking atound for CC2541 pricing
<wpwrak> CC2543 isn't labeled as BTLE because the 2541, which is, runs their proprietary BT stack. the 2541 also has a few small modifications that should make processing BTLE much easier, but unfortunately, they're not documented. so we'll have to apply some workarounds in the 2543.
<wpwrak> but besides that, the chips are nearly identical
<nicksydney> so the 2543 is like blank slate to be uplaoded with BTLE stack ? :)
<wpwrak> well, a partial stack, it's probably too small for everything. but we'll see.
<nicksydney> it will be interesting if anelok one day can flash any kind of 2.4ghz stach that the user want to use for their own purpose :)
<whitequark> there's also modulation...
<wpwrak> you can flash whatever you want :) but yes, modulation choices are your principal enemy there
<nicksydney> anyone going here https://www.google.com/events/io ?
<nicksydney> modulation ?
<wpwrak> e.g., it couldn't do 802.15.4 since it doesn't understand that modulation
<wpwrak> and there are a few more things like symbol mapping, whitening, even CRC. these things all happen basically at the bit level, so it's expensive (slow) to do them in software
<wpwrak> and slowness can kill you if you have to turn around quickly to send an ACK or such
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<wpwrak> time to update gnutls, it has a server-attacks-client crash or even code execution bug: radare.today/technical-analysis-of-the-gnutls-hello-vulnerability/
<wpwrak> just when you thought heartbleed was bad ...
<whitequark> "time to update gnutls" -_-
<whitequark> that time was three days ago
<wpwrak> i mean, install the updated packages :)
<whitequark> exactly
<whitequark> Grammatical gender doesn't always correspond to real gender. The word [Ein Mädchen] came from "die Magd", which means "the maiden" (it's an old word now, and has medieval connotations), and it took the diminutive ending of -chen to get a meaning of "the girl" by becoming "das Mädchen". All words that take the diminutive ending of -chen are neutral. So the original word is feminine, but because this is a -chen diminutive of the original wor
<whitequark> and I thought english had a lot of corner cases -_-
<ysionneau> =)
<ysionneau> I think it's a lost cause to search origin of gender of nouns
<ysionneau> in French or German
<ysionneau> you just need to learn and that's it :/
<whitequark> they tried to teach me French in school
<whitequark> damn vowels, how do they even work. I refuse to even look at French ever since
<wpwrak> well, of the appropriate gender in appearance and grammar = it's okay to have sex. if there's a disagreement, don't do it. very nice and clear :)
<whitequark> wpwrak: ... I don't get it?
<whitequark> oh
<whitequark> -_
<wpwrak> also works for boys, though the diminutives are not very common in modern use. but the gender-independent word "kind' (child) is also neutral. so the indicator works there, too
<whitequark> this is going to be the hardest part of the language
<larsc> you basically need to remeber for each word whether to use der/die/das
<whitequark> yeah
<whitequark> "ü no equivalent nor approximate sound in English" -_-'
<whitequark> oh, though, there is one in russian
<DocScrutinizer05> "ü" is simple: say "you" and press your tongue against your lower front teeth for the "u"
<wpwrak> whitequark: northern english should have it :)
<DocScrutinizer05> your rear tongue automatically will come up against your roof of mouth a bit. here yoü are
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: that's a *very* messy "ue" ;-))
<DocScrutinizer05> for a lots of better ones, listen to turkish speaker! ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> haha, wikipedia quotes "Führer" as a commonly known and used word with ü
<whitequark> I guess it is?
<wpwrak> it also appears in a very common document in german-speaking countries, the "Fuehrerschein"
<wpwrak> i guess they missed that one during denazification
<DocScrutinizer05> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:German_pronunciation&from=%C3%9C
<DocScrutinizer05> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:De-Übersetzung.ogg
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<DocScrutinizer05> there's also a short form e.g. Hütte
<whitequark> wpwrak: yeah, titles like Geschäftsfürher are funny
<DocScrutinizer05> Names like Adolf are funny
<whitequark> especially because "Geschäft" is made its way into russian, but with somewhat different meaning
<wpwrak> better way to produce "ue": say "google" but make the "oo" very long. then, while still making the "oo" sound, move your tongue forward. when you touch the teeth, its has become an "ue"
<DocScrutinizer05> so where's the massive diff between gOOgle and yOU ?
<wpwrak> fewer variations by dialect ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> haha
<DocScrutinizer05> yoh
<ysionneau> it seems all vowel sounds in german are also in french
<DocScrutinizer05> you can't help but love how *nothing* in English is written like you speak it
<ysionneau> I'm trying to learn German and they put equivalent french sounds in my book
<ysionneau> and so far it's not so hard to pronounce
<wpwrak> ysionneau: no problem with "ue" for you then ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> I guess french has quitre sonme more than german
<wpwrak> fr.u == de.ue
<DocScrutinizer05> The French fail terribly e.g. in words starting with "h"
<ysionneau> the only thing is that I need to remember when "ch" needs to be pronounce "RRR" or "sh" kind of sound
<ysionneau> and the g that get pronouced like k
<ysionneau> and d like t
<ysionneau> etc
<ysionneau> DocScrutinizer05: because usually we just don't pronounce the 'h' ?
<DocScrutinizer05> yep
<ysionneau> yep I agree
<ysionneau> because in French is just not pronounced :/
<ysionneau> I'm learning to take deep breath as well, in order to be able to pronounce german words till the end
<DocScrutinizer05> hehe
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, you're not used to taking breath in between a sentence ;-)
<wpwrak> and then you have tortured constructions like "qu'est-ce que c'est" ...
<ysionneau> and ä ö ü stuff usually I hesitate on how to pronounce
<ysionneau> wpwrak: ah yes :p sounds natural to me though, but then when learning foreign language it's funny to see the equivalent of this kind of construction
<DocScrutinizer05> ä = affaire
<ysionneau> Was ist das?
<ysionneau> simple
<ysionneau> :'
<wpwrak> i prefer :) "c'est quoi ?"
<DocScrutinizer05> ö = peut etre
<ysionneau> ö == eu ?
<DocScrutinizer05> kinda
<ysionneau> ok
<DocScrutinizer05> ü = la nUIt
<ysionneau> ah and the 'e' which sometimes is pronounced é or è or EU
<ysionneau> :/
<DocScrutinizer05> well nUit
<ysionneau> like den or denn
<DocScrutinizer05> yep, that's a hard one
<wpwrak> or quatre-vingt-dix-neuf (4 * 20 + 10 + 9 = 99, indeed). in switzerland, they had the sense to simplify it to "nonante-neuf"
<ysionneau> wpwrak: in German it's funny the fact that you put the unit in first position
<ysionneau> like 32 is 2 30
<DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
<ysionneau> but then 132 is not 2 30 100
<ysionneau> it's 100 2 30 or something
<DocScrutinizer05> exactly, einhundert zwei und dreissig
<ysionneau> usually it's written with space or all together?
<ysionneau> in my book they put numbers all attached
<ysionneau> unreadable :(
<DocScrutinizer05> I think usually nobody writes it
<ysionneau> ahah
<wpwrak> yeah, the concept worked well for two digits. but then the village grew and they needed to add "extended numbers". a bit like "extended memory" in older PCs
<ysionneau> :D
<DocScrutinizer05> except on money checks where "in words:"
<ysionneau> ah yes
<ysionneau> you've got big checks then?
<DocScrutinizer05> and there it's usually --eins--drei--zwo--
* ysionneau kidding
<DocScrutinizer05> oooh, fünf (5) has a nice ü
<DocScrutinizer05> o/
<DocScrutinizer05> afk
<ysionneau> so it seems äü are just pronounced like they would be in french without the ¨
<ysionneau> and ö
<ysionneau> ah no ö
<ysionneau> but the two others yes
<DocScrutinizer05> böse -> peut se
<DocScrutinizer05> böse -> peut c,e
<DocScrutinizer05> sorry no cedile
<whitequark> <Multi_key> <c> <,> ?
<ysionneau> like in mögen?
<wpwrak> ççç
<DocScrutinizer05> çe
<ysionneau> maçon
<DocScrutinizer05> ä = maison
<ysionneau> ah then it's like "è" or almost
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah
<ysionneau> ok so I've got it almost all wrong :D
<DocScrutinizer05> even a native german speaker can't distinguish between hätte and hette
<wpwrak> and it easily turns into "a"
<DocScrutinizer05> ??
<wpwrak> well, "er"
<DocScrutinizer05> english?
<wpwrak> first day in school, they wrote out names on little cards. i couldn't find mine because i was looking for "werna"
<ysionneau> I found it funny my book tells me to pronounce "a" (french "a") for some 'r'
<ysionneau> but in the end it works well
<wpwrak> (austrian pronounciation)
<ysionneau> like "der" -> pronouncing "dea"
<DocScrutinizer05> yep, that's kinda correct
<ysionneau> off I go , see you
* DocScrutinizer05 too
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<wpwrak> now this sounds VERY interesting: https://www.seedmatch.de/ note: crowd_investing_
<wpwrak> the only problem: limited to german investors
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<nicksydney> kmscube running on NVIDIA Jetson TK1
<nicksydney> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/06/04/raspberry_pi_autopilot - Russians turn Raspberry Pi into fully-fledged autopilot
<nicksydney> whitequark: is that yours ? :)
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<nicksydney> how many PCB layers does a PC motherboard have ?