DocScrutinizer05 changed the topic of #qi-hardware to: Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs and http://irclog.whitequark.org/qi-hardware
arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
<DocScrutinizer05> nice! glowing gue
<DocScrutinizer05> anyway there must be a lot more of possible EL reactions that you could exploit for that
<DocScrutinizer05> I recall age old glass thingies, square with maybe 10*10cm, with a hole for a dial axis in the center, and two wires that allowed the thing to glow green when connected to 220V~
<DocScrutinizer05> probably it originally been designed for 110V@400Hz or sth like that. I guess it been from either tanks or airplanes
arielenter has joined #qi-hardware
dos1 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
wolfspraul has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware
wej has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
wej has joined #qi-hardware
idundidit has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
idundidit has joined #qi-hardware
<nicksydney> wpwrak: have you ever soldered this kind of package http://sigma.octopart.com/10122332/image/Atmel-ATMEGA88-20MU.jpg ?
<nicksydney> is the way soldering it similar to QFN ?
<wpwrak> yes, it's the same sort of package, just with marginally easier access to the pads
<nicksydney> did you use iron or hot air ?
<wpwrak> i just use the iron these days. my hot air pencil is even broken but i didn't bother to replace it
<wpwrak> even components that have their pads under the case without proper lateral access can be soldered with an iron as long as the pads are close to the edge and can be enlarged a little beyond it. just heat the pad on the pcb and the pad on the chip will get enough heat to make a good enough solder joint.
<nicksydney> hot air pencil .. never heard about that before
<wpwrak> (heat the pad) this works, for example, for crystals in small packages
<nicksydney> DocScrutinizer05: geezz
<wpwrak> (hot air pencil) the one i have was not terribly useful. the airflow is too fast. not sure why it worked so poorly. i only used it for tricky components like these crystals, but once it broke, i simply figured out that i could do without as well ;-)
<wpwrak> ;-)
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: you'll like the videos linked in this article: http://www.heise.de/tp/blogs/foren/S-Divide-et-impera/forum-275798/msg-24870028/read/
<DocScrutinizer05> ohwell
<DocScrutinizer05> why do you think I'd like those?
<DocScrutinizer05> they are exactly what I expected
<kristianpaul> nice ear thingy
arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
idundidit has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
arielenter has joined #qi-hardware
idundidit has joined #qi-hardware
arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
arielenter has joined #qi-hardware
arielenter has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
arielenter has joined #qi-hardware
arielenter has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
arielenter1 has joined #qi-hardware
arielenter1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware
wej has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
wolfspraul has quit [Quit: leaving]
wej has joined #qi-hardware
wej has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
wej has joined #qi-hardware
kyak has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware
kyak has joined #qi-hardware
kyak has joined #qi-hardware
kyak has quit [Changing host]
xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
<CYB3R> What is wrong with jzboot? http://pastebin.com/RRZTcG4E
pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware
wej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
wej has joined #qi-hardware
xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware
wej has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
xiangfu_ has joined #qi-hardware
wej has joined #qi-hardware
xiangfu has quit [Quit: leaving]
xiangfu_ has quit [Client Quit]
xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware
wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware
wej_ has joined #qi-hardware
wej has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
xiangfu has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
rz2k has joined #qi-hardware
wolfspraul has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware
wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware
wolfspraul has quit [Quit: leaving]
wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware
wej has joined #qi-hardware
wej_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
wej has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
idundidit has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
wej has joined #qi-hardware
idundidit has joined #qi-hardware
FDCX_ has joined #qi-hardware
FDCX_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware
freespace has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
freespace has joined #qi-hardware
FDCX has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
FDCX has joined #qi-hardware
arielenter has joined #qi-hardware
arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
arielenter has joined #qi-hardware
arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
arielenter has joined #qi-hardware
dos1 has joined #qi-hardware
root_empire has joined #qi-hardware
michael_lee has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds]
pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
arielenter has joined #qi-hardware
arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
wolfspraul has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware
arielenter has joined #qi-hardware
pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware
<qi-bot> [commit] Paul Cercueil: Fix one icon of the GCW skin (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/eae7156
<whitequark> I'm a bit lost as to what are they trying to achieve
<whitequark> 8051 and a proprietary 32-bit coprocessor? wtf?!
<wpwrak> so you read my comment ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> well, everybody is allowed to build their own processors
<DocScrutinizer05> I still like the atmel AT89xx51 chips
<whitequark> wpwrak: your comment?
<whitequark> oh, I see
<whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: sure, they are, but that's not very useful to enduser
<DocScrutinizer05> *shrug*
<DocScrutinizer05> maybe you just don't have the matching usecase at hand
<DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: the 8051 FTDI has one thing: 8051 compatibility
<DocScrutinizer05> I think a plethora of kbd matrix drivers and whatnot are based on 8051
<wpwrak> yeah, i didn't mention that because it's a) implicit, b) a mixed blessing. it's good because you can get a lot of compilers and tools for it. it's bad because the only Free one is sdcc.
<whitequark> gcc can't 8051?
<wpwrak> as far as i know, it can't. isn't designed for 8 bit
<whitequark> hmm.
<wpwrak> at least that was the situation a few years ago. dunno if architectural changes since have made things easier in that regard
<whitequark> architectural changes in gcc? :)
<wpwrak> well, SSA for one
<whitequark> isn't SSA there at least for a decade?
<whitequark> ah, I see, we have a bit of a different notion of "a few years"
<wpwrak> according to wikipedia, sdcc is still the only one; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8051_compiler#C_compilers
<whitequark> I see
<whitequark> I've seen a halfbaked port of LLVM to AVR, demonstrating that LLVM easily accomodates 8bit architectures
<wpwrak> but .. there appear to be projects that ported gcc as well. hmm. http://sourceforge.net/projects/mcs51gcc/
<whitequark> it wasn't generating very good code, but then again it was someone's weekend project
<wpwrak> "no files". maybe it was more a plan than a project
<wpwrak> sees the the number of pointers is more of a problem than being 8 bit: http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2000-01/msg00231.html
<DocScrutinizer05> meh! 8051 programs are written in assembler!
<whitequark> avr-gcc works just fine
<whitequark> and it has two address space
<whitequark> again, LLVM has an intrinsic notion of address space for quite some time ;)
<whitequark> meaning you won't have to hack optimizer or something. LLVM originally uses that for GPUs, but no reason it can't be used for 8051
<DocScrutinizer05> those coders. HAH! c-compiler for a maybe 1kB of program storage. Why not c++?
<whitequark> when used right, C++ won't blow up code size, and it could well be applicable in this case
<whitequark> it's just that almost no one knows how to use C++ right, and reading any books on it will surely sabotage your ability rather than enhance it
<whitequark> it is quite telling that almost the only team I know of who uses C++ right is also the one which implemented a C++ compiler
<DocScrutinizer05> and you're probably absolutely right regarding all of that. Incl *program*-storage. RAM is even more sparse on 8051 class MCs (some don't have any real one), amd c++ is a real hog on data structures, with all the opbjects and late binding and whatnot
<whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: exactly, you'd basically be required to only use those C++ constructs expanding during compile time
<whitequark> some example on how it would be useful: think data types with units. never again use millimeters where you expect meters
<whitequark> that could expand to a simple int or float.
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, and use global vars only and whatnot
<whitequark> btw I think modern 8051s aren't as sparse, you'd get at least 4k of RAM and maybe 16k of program storage
<whitequark> I agree that with <512 or maybe 1k of RAM you're much better off with asm
<whitequark> ugh. my remailer wants a "Brand" of noname chinese endmills. apparently they're only used to people buying clothes and shit like that
<DocScrutinizer05> Nakamichi
<DocScrutinizer05> Honda
<whitequark> that's japanese, no?
<DocScrutinizer05> 什麼他媽的
<whitequark> LOL
<whitequark> no, they want it in english
<DocScrutinizer05> tell them there's no english translation
<DocScrutinizer05> it's a name after all
<whitequark> and they crosscheck it with the invoice
<whitequark> in the end all this shit is for customs
<DocScrutinizer05> <noname>
<DocScrutinizer05> <OEM>
<larsc> Whitequark Industries
<DocScrutinizer05> <unknown>
<whitequark> larsc: at a point I considered registering a company solely that I could deal with all the vendors which apparently bear intense hatred for private individuals
<whitequark> looking at the amount of bureaucracy and money required to do that quickly dissuaded me
<whitequark> at some point "taxes" turn into "extortion", and russia is far ahead of that point
<larsc> you just need to make enough money, at some point you don't have to pay taxes anymore ;)
<whitequark> I would surely like to make that much money :p
rz2k has quit []
arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
arielenter has joined #qi-hardware
arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
arielenter has joined #qi-hardware
<DocScrutinizer05> I just wondered what UN blue-helmets were meant for
<wpwrak> target practice ?
<DocScrutinizer05> aren't those UN troops regularly used when a country has no working internal authorities and conflicts between groups of the people or with neighbors need to get settled?
<wpwrak> i guess they're more a reminder that whoever sent them could have sent real soldiers instead
<DocScrutinizer05> and wouldn't be any attack to those blue-helmets be an obvious and gross offense against "the good ones"?
<wpwrak> well, really equipped for combat. they're of course real enough as soldiers.
<wpwrak> what's when they either withdraw or call in the cavalry
<DocScrutinizer05> eh?
<wpwrak> if they get seriously attacked. sometimes they have "real" troops hanging out nearby.
<DocScrutinizer05> I think Russia couldn't justify sending their own troops "to protect their people" when blue helmets are already there to do that
<wpwrak> are any blue helmets foolish enough to venture into this ?
<DocScrutinizer05> *shrug*
<DocScrutinizer05> I don't think you discuss that stuff with your wife at home, then decide "meh, I don't wanna go there"
<DocScrutinizer05> afaik UN troops are from normal troops of members of the UN
<DocScrutinizer05> and the power that those UN troops are supported with gets determined by those who send their own troops to that mission, together with the mission commander who got appointed by UN. No?
<DocScrutinizer05> basically shooting at blue helmets means you start a war against the world. Maybe I'm naive
<DocScrutinizer05> when the mission control says they need patriot missiles to enforce a no-fly-zone, they will get them. When they need tanks, they get tanks
<wpwrak> hmm, i don't think they would go into serious combat missions
<DocScrutinizer05> I seem to recall they did
<wpwrak> defend themselves against smaller attacks, maybe. but they wouldn't even have the coordination to go to war on their own
<DocScrutinizer05> so you think Russia would just nuke them away and then happily go on occupying ukraine?
<DocScrutinizer05> obviously showing whole world the finger and telling them "fuck off, what do you wanna do against it?"
<wpwrak> russia would veto their deployment
<DocScrutinizer05> maybe russia has no saying when they are one of the conflicting parties
<DocScrutinizer05> how could those who are the target of an activity have a word in allowing such activity?
<DocScrutinizer05> they could contribute troops to the blue helmets
<DocScrutinizer05> or they refuse to
<DocScrutinizer05> whatever they like
<wpwrak> maybe this helps to clarity who gets sent to such missions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peacekeeping#Participation
<DocScrutinizer05> but mission control will not be a russian general
<DocScrutinizer05> I don't see any ... point in that. I just see that you seem to argue based on average of previous examples
<DocScrutinizer05> nothing in there seems to suggest that EU troups couldn't act as blue helmets in Ukraine
<DocScrutinizer05> I however agree that all western nations will be too much chicken to do the right thing
<whitequark> (the text says "chew-chew" and not what you think, though the vague meaning is likely deliberate)
pcercuei has quit [Quit: dodo]
<DocScrutinizer05> ukraina's hair is a bit weird
<DocScrutinizer05> kinda chinese, no?
<DocScrutinizer05> mhm
<DocScrutinizer05> well, anyway seems importing stuff gets much harder for you. sorry for that