Topic for #qi-hardware is now Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs
guanucoluis has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
mth has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware
aisa_ has joined #qi-hardware
mth has joined #qi-hardware
guanucoluis has joined #qi-hardware
<qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu: mplayer disable libgsm (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/e0f74ab
<qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu: libggi: fix depends (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/5faa9e4
* xiangfu finial create my first ugly pcb design.
guanucoluis has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<xiangfu> s/finial/finally :)
<kristianpaul> picture picture !
<wpwrak> midnight ... marie antoinette remembrance day, the day when we honor our disconnected political elites, has just begun :)
<xiangfu> kristianpaul, I already print it on a photo paper.
DocScrutinizer05 has quit [Disconnected by services]
DocScrutinizer05 has joined #qi-hardware
<xiangfu> kristianpaul, this will not working on photo paper. since you can see the BGA ball short a lot.
<kristianpaul> bga :o
<kristianpaul> i tought was tqfp
<kristianpaul> you are moving to slx45 now? ;-)
<kristianpaul> it should not short on the paper...
<xiangfu> no. it's slx9, ftg256.
<xiangfu> the short , you think it is my printer problem?
<kristianpaul> i bet
<kristianpaul> i never trust my re-charged cardrige laser printed for those tasks..
<kristianpaul> but hey you need a more than two layer pcb anyway...
<xiangfu> great. this build will test for release.
<kristianpaul> good :-) lts release?
<kristianpaul> you should follow owrt release cycles, i havent update my router since years
<kristianpaul> and seems newest fimrmware will no run well anyway so.. ;-)
<wpwrak> for diy, i'd strongly suggest to stay away from bga
<qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu: mplayer: fix deps (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/fe641a3
<kristianpaul> and ftg?
<wpwrak> it can be painful enough to debug things where you don't have to worry so much about the contacts
<wpwrak> let's see what ftg is ..
<kristianpaul> same :)
<kristianpaul> to me eyes
<wpwrak> naw, don't try bga for your first project. use something simple. tqfp or such.
<wpwrak> the next step is qfn / mlf. some are pretty friendly, i.e., the ones with inclined sides. others less so, i.e., the ones with vertical sides.
<kristianpaul> and let said you got soldering all the balls, you still need more layers to route all chip...
<wpwrak> depends on the pitch and on how many balls you actually need. but yes, in general, bga isn't suitable for diy pcbs. the best you can hope for is diy aoldering.
<xiangfu> ftg256 is bga.
<wpwrak> xiangfu: how do you plan to solder it ?
<wpwrak> xiangfu: and do you expect to make your own pcb, or have the pcb made at a fab ?
<xiangfu> direct use the hot air or an oven.
<kristianpaul> oven oven !
<kristianpaul> had you previous hot air esperience btw?
<kristianpaul> be careful
<xiangfu> wpwrak, about pcb, I want do that parallel, etching and send the file out to some fab.
<xiangfu> 100RMB give you 10cmX8cm. 10 pcs. it needs 4~5 days
<xiangfu> kristianpaul, hot air. not much. I have a useless pcba for test. :)
<wpwrak> fab sounds reasonable for the pcb. that may allow you to have vias under the fpga. in general, it's almost unavoidable to have vias there (with a bga). and diy can't do that.
<wpwrak> still, i'd try to find a nice *qfp package if i was you :)
<wpwrak> (or qfn, but i don't think they use that for fpgas. qfn is harder to solder than tqfp/lqfp but still manageable.)
<kristianpaul> but xilinx..
<kristianpaul> 7 series seems have all from bga
emeb has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
<kristianpaul> :-/
<xiangfu> wpwrak, my first plan even complicate. with all power ic and caps on pcb.
<xiangfu> then I found I have problem on routing wires.
<kristianpaul> tought csg is 0.8mm pitch..
<xiangfu> so I remove again and again. then it only have the ftg256 chip and osc. :)
<kristianpaul> ah ftg is .2 bigger
<xiangfu> wpwrak, yes. since I have those qfp pin-out board. I direct jump to bga. for new xilinx chips.
<xiangfu> kristianpaul, yes. that is 1mm pitch.
<wpwrak> XC6SLX9-2TQG144C doesn't sound too evil. lqfp. 0.5 mm pitch is a bit tight, though.
<kristianpaul> i like that
<xiangfu> kristianpaul, most of xilinx chip is 1mm. only CSG and SBG is 0.8mm
heberth has joined #qi-hardware
<wpwrak> yeah, only bga for series 7
<wpwrak> but ... if experimenting with series 6 now, AND it's your first pcb, there's little point in making your own life miserable
<kristianpaul> tought you can follow azonenberg adventures on bga :)
<wpwrak> i'm sure the wright brothers dreamed of flying to the moon, but they had the good sense of not trying their first flight with a supersonic rocket engine ;-)
<kristianpaul> were diferent times ;-)
<xiangfu> wpwrak, about XC6SLX9-2TQG144C, after follow your advices. I made 3 quiet stable board. now it is like: http://www.openmobilefree.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/IMG_1190.jpg and http://www.openmobilefree.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/IMG_1192.jpg
<xiangfu> wpwrak, the cable that for osc. it have GND wrap the singal around.
<wpwrak> nice :) it's getting better
<xiangfu> wpwrak, (not trying their first flight with a supersonic rocket engine ) :-)
<xiangfu> kristianpaul, yes. I use azonenberg libs.
<wpwrak> it'll still be a miracle if it works, but you're one step closer to something that might :)
<kristianpaul> wrap?
<kristianpaul> why?
<xiangfu> wpwrak, I have a jtag-communication, can read the clock counter out. for 1000 time, it give 3 ~4 errors. still not stable enough.
<wpwrak> why "why" ?
<kristianpaul> why wrap things on a pcb with a fpga :)
<wpwrak> xiangfu: yeah, that's roughly what i'd expect. circuits rarely fail 100%, but if you abuse them badly enough, they fail noticeably often.
<wpwrak> kristianpaul: because he hasn't made his own pcb yet :)
<wpwrak> alas, that adapter board is likely to do more harm than good
<wpwrak> e.g., i doubt is has correct bypassing
<xiangfu> wpwrak, I have to jump to BGA now. :) or it will take me too much time . good thing is I don't want all 256 pins out. I only need ~10 of them. so I want keep it 2 layer.
<wpwrak> and the long cables probably act are excellent antennas. so maybe the board works at daytime, when the neighbour is away, but fails when he's back in the evening, downloading porn over wifi
<xiangfu> wpwrak, 4 layer will totally not fit for me. I can read the 4 layer pcb. I can not create it now by kicad. :(
<xiangfu> wpwrak, :-D
<wpwrak> why do you think bga will help you save time ?
<xiangfu> wpwrak, (, i doubt is has correct bypassing) what do you mean ?
<xiangfu> wpwrak, skip qfp-pcb, direct go to bga-pcb. I think it will same me 50% time of qfp-pcb. :)
<wpwrak> (bypassing) capacitors, placed very near (not more than a few mm) to the fpga's pins
<xiangfu> wpwrak, oh. yes.
<wpwrak> well ... in addition to the circuit problems you'll have to fight the soldering problems. and if you discover that you need to access some pin that's unconnected, you have to make another board
<xiangfu> wpwrak, one of the 3 board have little improvement. the capacitors at the back of qfp144 pin-out board.
<wpwrak> with *qfp, you just solder a little wire to that "new" pin
<wpwrak> (caps) ah, that's good. that should help a lot.
<wpwrak> the oscillator may need a cap, too
<xiangfu> wpwrak, yes.
<xiangfu> wpwrak, about this print [http://downloads.openmobilefree.net/tmp/ftg256_ugly_pcb.JPG]. do you think it is my printer problem?
<xiangfu> wpwrak, I am using Brother HL-2140 laser printer.
<kristianpaul> use foil paper at night :-)
<wpwrak> that looks rather odd indeed
<wpwrak> does the postscript look fine ?
<xiangfu> (with *qfp, you just solder a little wire to that "new" pin) I think I have experience on pin-out board. so I direct jump to pcb. and I this one not working. I have to learn more knowledge on pcb (via etc)
<xiangfu> wpwrak, too bad. I am still not read the book you advise me.
<xiangfu> wpwrak, the postscript looks good.
<wpwrak> looks like a printer driver problem then. maybe google around a bit. cups may also have more than one driver for your printer and selecting a different one may help
<wpwrak> the pin-out board was a detour. if you make your own board, you can improve a lot of things even if still using *qfp.
<wpwrak> e.g., you can have a nice big ground plane. and much shorter tracks for everything.
<xiangfu> wpwrak, wait. I check the postscript agian.
<xiangfu> wpwrak, it looks same as the result.
<wpwrak> hah ! :)
<wpwrak> in pcbnew, did you "plot" or "print" ?
<xiangfu> "print"
<wpwrak> i rest my case ;-)
<wpwrak> "print" is broken. only use "plot"
<xiangfu> (the pin-out board was a detour.... you can improve a lot...) yes. totally agree.
<xiangfu> wpwrak, trying plot now..
<wpwrak> you should find the "make front" and "make back" targets in my various projects useful. they invoke pcbnew with all the right settings for toner transfer
<wpwrak> in particular, they select the right mirroring
<xiangfu> plot looks much much better.
<wpwrak> kewl :)
<xiangfu> huge difference :)
* kristianpaul take note about plot
heberth has quit [Quit: leaving]
aisa_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
jekhor has joined #qi-hardware
<kyak> xiangfu: qt4 build is still failing on buildhost?
<kyak> xiangfu: also, why mpg123 gets built? It depends on BUILD_PATENTED...
<kyak> that's pretty damn strange, i see qt4 has built.. perhaps it's one of qt4's packages that fails to build
<kyak> ah, ok we are hitting this bug: https://dev.openwrt.org/ticket/11266 with BUILD_PATENTED
<xiangfu> kyak, part of qt4 failed.
<xiangfu> kyak, so we can just remove mpg123 instead of re-build. right?
<kyak> xiangfu: just forget about mpg123, it won't get built
<kyak> xiangfu: do you know which part of qt4 failed?
<kyak> there are two dependent packages, which have failed due to qt4 - these are qball and qstardict. Makes we wonder, because qball has exactly the same deps as Tile, which built just fine
jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
jluis has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
jluis has joined #qi-hardware
lekernel has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<xiangfu> kyak, qt-xml. and I know qt-demos also failed.
scientes has joined #qi-hardware
<roh> h
<roh> re
<kyak> xiangfu: strange, qt4-xml builds just fine here
<viric> damn serial port
<viric> Has anyone ever connected two linuces by serial port, and then expect one side "echo hello > /dev/ttyS0" to emit hello at the other side, running "cat /dev/ttyS0"?
<viric> what magic is there?
<xiangfu> viric, I just do then on ben nanonoto and laptop. it works fine.
<viric> maybe I have some broken hw in the middle
<viric> I just can't tell what
<viric> xiangfu: does 'cat' and 'echo' work for you?
<viric> xiangfu: can you paste 'stty -F serialdevice -a' ?
<xiangfu> viric, laptop[/dev/ttyUSB0](running cat /dev/ttyUSB0) --> nanonote[/dev/ttyS0] (running echo hello > /dev/ttyS0)
<xiangfu> wait..
<xiangfu> http://dpaste.com/814225/ this is the laptop output.
<xiangfu> http://dpaste.com/814229/ this is the nanonote output.
<xiangfu> 'cat' and 'echo' works fine here.
<viric> hm ok
<viric> I might have something wrong
<roh> viric: try using screen on both sides
<roh> screen /dev/ttyS0 9600
<roh> and make sure its a nullmodem cable ;)
<roh> pin 5 straigh through (gnd) and 2 and 3 crossed
<roh> +t
<viric> 2 and 3 are crossed
<roh> some weird serials loose state as soon as you close them (baudrate, handshake etc)
<roh> so simply cat may npt work
<viric> it's a full featured null modem cable.
<viric> with hw flow control even
Jurting has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<viric> I think I have a bad mainboard-to-db9 cable
<viric> or a broken mainboard port
<viric> the mainboard manual even does not include the pinout of the COM1 connector
aisa has joined #qi-hardware
<viric> crossing tx/rx doesn't give echo, in one end.
<viric> on the other, yes.
aisa has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
scientes has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware
pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware
aisa has joined #qi-hardware
aisa has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Hoolxi has joined #qi-hardware
woakas has joined #qi-hardware
erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware
wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware
xiangfu has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Hoolxi has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
aisa_ has joined #qi-hardware
aisa_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
aisa has joined #qi-hardware
urandom__ has joined #qi-hardware
Freemor has joined #qi-hardware
kristoffer has joined #qi-hardware
paroneayea has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
scientes has joined #qi-hardware
paroneayea has joined #qi-hardware
porchao has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
GNUtoo-desktop has joined #qi-hardware
porchao has joined #qi-hardware
emeb has joined #qi-hardware
pabspabspabs has joined #qi-hardware
pabs3 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
Freemor has left #qi-hardware [#qi-hardware]
jekhor has joined #qi-hardware
jluis_ has joined #qi-hardware
pabspabspabs is now known as pabs3
heberth has joined #qi-hardware
GNUtoo-desktop has quit [Quit: [INFO] fsogsmd : received signal -11, exiting.]
dandon has quit [Quit: something is coming. don't want to be around. farewell primalz]
jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
heberth has quit [Quit: leaving]
erikkugel has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
pcercuei2 has joined #qi-hardware
LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware
pcercuei2 has quit [Quit: Bye]
jekhor has joined #qi-hardware
kristoffer has quit [Quit: Leaving]
bzb has joined #qi-hardware
<pcercuei> hi fellow neighbours
<pcercuei> I want to introduce some change on GMenu2X, that might break things, I want your green light first
<pcercuei> each app on gmenu2x can be given parameters
<pcercuei> I want to drop that feature
<pcercuei> that's unpractical, and redundant; if an app requires specific (and constant) parameters, then it's much more practical to wrap the binary using a script
porchao has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
porchao has joined #qi-hardware
<mth> is "exec=application --arg" equivalent to the parameters feature?
<pcercuei> I think in the current code, the value given to "exec" must be a file without arguments, as there is a check on the existence of the binary: if the binary is not present the link won't display
<pcercuei> but that's fixable very easily
<mth> since in .desktop, "Exec" can include arguments, including things like %f for a file name
<mth> gmenu2x doesn't use .desktop at the moment, but maybe could in the future (also outside of OPK support)
<whitequark> pcercuei: why drop that feature? it isn't hard to implement/maintain by any means
<pcercuei> whitequark: just like every other "feature" we dropped, because it's crappily implemented, we don't use it at all, and it's redundant
bzb has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<pcercuei> meh
<pcercuei> GMenu2X will chmod() the binaries
<pcercuei> how dirty is that?
<whitequark> ow.
<kyak> yeah, we could just create a shell script wrapper for that :)
<pcercuei> kyak: all those params could be appended to the exec= line
<kyak> then we would have to re-write the code that check if a link is existing, just as you mentioned
<pcercuei> that's not really a problem
aisa has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<kyak> we've got 26 links using "params"
<kyak> well, that's fixable..
<kyak> but maybe better leave it as it is for good
heberth_ has joined #qi-hardware
<pcercuei> mmhhh
<pcercuei> in that case, can I just remove the option to edit the parameters on the config menu?
<pcercuei> I assume the user never need to modify the params
<kyak> i don't even remember a shortcut for that option :)
<pcercuei> on the "edit" menu, you can modify the parameters
<pcercuei> which shouldn't happen IMHO
<kyak> i think you can remove it, it's easier to edit the link file itself (in my opinion)
<pcercuei> also, are you aware that the "params" of gmenu2x are heavily parsed for keynames?
<kyak> sorry, gtg..
<pcercuei> like "[selFile]"
<pcercuei> if you use "[selFile]" on the params, it will be replaced by the file selected
aisa_ has joined #qi-hardware
Jurting has joined #qi-hardware
<pcercuei> btw, could we add an "editable" option?
<pcercuei> if editable=false is set on a link, then the "Edit" option on the contextual menu is hidden
kristianpaul has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware
kristianpaul has quit [Changing host]
kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware
urandom__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
aisa_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
aisa_ has joined #qi-hardware
heberth_ has quit [Quit: leaving]
freakazoid0223 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
aisa_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
aisa_ has joined #qi-hardware
scientes has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
aisa_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
aisa_ has joined #qi-hardware
aisa_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
woakas has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]