Topic for #qi-hardware is now Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs
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<kristianpaul>
ha eeschema is fun
<kristianpaul>
i fix one erc warning and two later appear..
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<wpwrak>
in german, we have the (colloquial) expression "verschlimmbessern" for this, from "verbessern" (make better) and "verschlimmern" (make worse). "schlimm" also means "bad".
<whitequark>
seen that. wasn't this project met with harsh critics and so? from what I see from here, it doesn't really matter if someone in your country tries to push oppressive laws, it matters if you can take some action and reject them
<whitequark>
i.e. what happened with ACTA
<whitequark>
well, maybe I'm being naive after all. I don't know.
<Jay7>
whitequark: hehe, you found that too :)
<Jay7>
my idea is to disconnect that bureaucrats from internet
<Jay7>
or make some kind of simulated internet only and specal for government
<Jay7>
and let them play there
<whitequark>
Jay7: the matrix, you mean?
<Jay7>
yes, for government :)
<Jay7>
they live on own reality now, so I see no problem :)
<whitequark>
on the serious side of it, have you heard about the prison experiment?
<Jay7>
yeah
<whitequark>
I guess that the new government will appear, roughly on par with the previously existing
<whitequark>
less experienced, maybe, but people tend to gather that kind of experience quickly.
<Jay7>
it's iterative process :)
<whitequark>
I'm voting for H-bombs then. quick and painless after all. not that bad.
<Jay7>
EMI :)
<whitequark>
no no, not in this sense
<whitequark>
get a hundred of 100 mt ones, distribute evenly on the surface, detonate
<whitequark>
government problem solved
<Jay7>
you are speaking about 23 Dec, 2012 ;)
<Jay7>
but no, people will live and should build new world
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<rz2k>
lets make opensource H-bomb
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<wpwrak>
whitequark: naw, just build one. and make a congress for new democracy management technology. make some juicy announcements. all the .gov critters will flock there.
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<whitequark>
I swear that Stanislaw Lem has wrote a story about it
<viric>
:)
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<wpwrak>
whitequa1k: it's the inescapable conclusion once you realize how a mouse trap works
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<wpwrak>
whitequa1k: btw, if you're unhappy with your government, here's an idea they could try: 1) put someone who loathes any forces of security, e.g., a former active terrorist, in charge of security and let that person insult and abuse the force under her control for a few years. 2) assign some of the armed forces (coast guard, border troops, etc.) to police duties. 3) lower their wages by some 30-60%.
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<Guest74200>
trying to compile a small app tuneit on my NN. an music instrument tuner. I need the alsa commile stuff (headers?) are these them: http://mirror2.openwrt.org/sources/ ?
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<GNUtoo-desktop>
Guest74200, you're trying to compile on nanonote itself?
<GNUtoo-desktop>
or to cross compile?
<Guest74200>
cross compile is new to me? yea thought I would see how manny days it would take :D.
<viric>
I'm interested in a guitar tuner for the NN
<Guest74200>
tuneit is an generic instrement tuner. there all ready is a guitar tuner in the img. I can give you a link dump of tuner software?
<whitequa1k>
wpwrak: I guess someone you know has tried this...
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<Guest74200>
here is a nice little clock app: http://www.tenox.tc/out/ I assume the binary's are not compatible?
<wpwrak>
whitequark: how did you guess ? :) one the first day, the coast guard went on strike. the next day, the gendarmerie (border guard, etc., a police force with military structure) did the same. later that day, part of the army joined the protests. today is the 3rd day ...
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<wpwrak>
whitequark: probably things will return to a more quiet state in a while, although it's hard to tell with a government so inept.
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<whitequark>
wpwrak: don't settle on anything less than a revolution!
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<wpwrak>
whitequark: well, the next major protest march is planned for the 8th of november. it would be a pity if someone else had already cleaned out the pigsty by then.
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<urandom__>
oh the elements of computer science, awesome book, i learnt a lot through it
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<whitequark>
... the fuck
<whitequark>
TIL that when someone steals an alpha emitter in a russian public school, they just write it off
<whitequark>
didn't even try to find; didn't even try to explain that it could be dangerous
<larsc>
so now you know where to get one if you should ever need one
<whitequark>
larsc: I could get an ICBM probably without much problems
<whitequark>
on the other hand, K2MnO4 for disinfection is a no-no
<whitequark>
not even in tiny pharmacy bottles
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<whitequark>
well, in a certain sense that decision drives natural selection, in the sense that if you're stupid enough to not listen to lectures and steal unknown stuff you shouldn't really be able to reproduce
<larsc>
you could probably steal it from some school as well
<whitequark>
ICBM or permanganate?
<whitequark>
the latter, surely
<whitequark>
well I won't have to steal
<whitequark>
I just have to ask nicely
<whitequark>
and explain that no I won't really make a glycerol bomb with it
<whitequark>
if I actually would want to do that, I won't even have to ask
<whitequark>
our chemistry teacher happily did the KClO4+S reaction
<whitequark>
the boom was quite impressive and the handle of the thingy you keep a test tube above the bunsen burner was found on the other side of the room
<whitequark>
he also tried to explode NI3, but it has failed to get dry enough :(
<larsc>
yea, chemistry class was all about builing explosives all the time
<larsc>
at least that's the part I remember ;)
<whitequark>
I happen to remember quite a bit of inorganic chemistry
<whitequark>
which sometimes leads to a blank stare and "... what" in conversations with my peers about something related
<whitequark>
one would be amazed how much people actually don't get any underlying science in commodity stuff, if one wouldn't already be tired of utter lack of interest in anything at all.
<larsc>
I actually had chemistry as one of my major courses in my final years, which means 5 hours of it per week, it's kind of that that I don't remember that much, especially since it was only 5 years ago
<whitequark>
mhm
<whitequark>
final years of high school or college?
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<larsc>
high school
<larsc>
you got to choose two subjects which you wanted to focus on
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<whitequark>
larsc: oh, I was always envious of that part in western education
<whitequark>
you never have to choose anything here
<whitequark>
it's either the predefined set of courses or nothing
<larsc>
the got rid of it here as well a few years ago
<larsc>
tehy
<larsc>
they
<whitequark>
how was it justified?
<larsc>
I don't know, but it was related to the pisa-study I think
<larsc>
they introduced district wide exams at the same time
<Guest74200>
west edcat has a better rep than it deserves. its rubbish. Home Education is the way to go. did a term of pyro in a sci class I went to that way :D
<Guest74200>
i mean "that way I did a term of pyro"
<Guest74200>
got some vids if you like
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<larsc>
you should consider that different people have different types of learning styles and the learning style that suits you best doesn't necessarily work for others as well as it does for you
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<whitequark>
Guest74200: a term of what?
<Guest74200>
fireworks,pyrotechnics, things that go bang
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<Guest74200>
lol
<Guest74200>
larsc: I know very well. I am just fed up of all the cheasey praise the west/uk education system gets.
<whitequark>
no one likes their home country education
<Guest74200>
I have had a total of 4 schools. 2 private 2 state
<wpwrak>
larsc: (explosives) somehow it
<wpwrak>
's reassuring if they do that in chemistry and not in physics
<Guest74200>
:)
<Guest74200>
A use for my NN is a fancy countdown for ignition of my pyrotechnics :D
<Guest74200>
just like what they have in incorrect hollywood
<Guest74200>
holly lol
<wpwrak>
hmm. i made a electric ignition for fireworks two years ago and thought of making it a bit more fancy and connect it to the ben. never did that, though.
<wpwrak>
so it's still just simple tact switches being abused for grilling resistors at a few amps
<Guest74200>
I have the fancy countdown script
<Guest74200>
Been using http://www.jamesyawn.net/38mm/index.html for ignition but not with any extra stuff on them. just put the hot wire end in the black powder. takes 10sec to get to temp
<Guest74200>
How long does grilling the resistors take?
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<Guest74200>
will post my countdown script on the mailing list.
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<wpwrak>
something like a second. i think i used a pair of 1/4 W through-hole resistors, somewhere around 22 or 33 Ohm, at 24 V
<Guest74200>
BTW my posts on the mailing list have not been getting though. they get added the the moderation que.
<Guest74200>
oh nice and quick... })
<wpwrak>
you need to subscribe to the list with the address you're posting from
<Guest74200>
I have
<Guest74200>
qi-hardware_maillist at no spam glamor my aross,me
<wpwrak>
then i guess you'll have to ask wolfgang. he'll be able to tell you what the list processor disliked. almost certainly it's an address mismatch.
<Guest74200>
opps its maillist_qi-hardware
<Guest74200>
I get msgs vir that address though.
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<Guest74200>
wolfgang: see above
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<whitequark>
wpwrak: I once thought about using a nichrome wire and a CR2032 battery
<whitequark>
aka KMnO4+methanol fuel cell
<whitequark>
the peak current can easily achieve 10A with these
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<Guest74200>
arr yes nichrome wire. really really fin ant it?
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<whitequark>
talking about western cultures
<whitequark>
here, some people poke fun at the anti-discriminatory laws. "tolerasts", say they, akin to "pederasts"
<whitequark>
I'm not with them, but I don't see how that is supposed to work either
<whitequark>
the whole point of hiring is the selection of fittest, right? and if there's a correlation between being, for example, gay, and poor performance, shouldn't you exploit that just as you exploit the correlation between not being able to understand pointers and bad performance?
<whitequark>
correlation obviously doesn't mean causation, but you don't really need to prove causation here
<whitequark>
so actually you're a) helping people who are good at their job but are being discriminated against to get their fair share and b) helping people who aren't good at their job but are good at finding lawyers by forcing employers to hire them
<whitequark>
and I don't see how exactly this helps to _reduce_ discrimination, much less the opposite.
<freespace>
your examples aren't great
<whitequark>
maybe
<freespace>
being bad a pointers reveals an underlying deficiency with indirection
<freespace>
it is tricky making judgements on future performance on unrelated factors like being gay
<freespace>
maybe there is a correlation, but if it is due to persecution of society at large
<freespace>
then not hiring them only makes things worse
<whitequark>
makes sense
<freespace>
anyway, discrimination laws say given 2 ppl of equal ability, you should not preference one over the other based on their creed etc
<whitequark>
my point is, how would you actually verify that you preference one over the other based only on their actual abilites?
<freespace>
test them?
<freespace>
give them problems?
<freespace>
unless you hire based on resume only
<whitequark>
no no. "you" as in "official controlling the execution of the law, while checking the employer"
<whitequark>
how this could be sensibly enforced without allowing anyone to exploit the system trivially?
<freespace>
if some one is genuinely incompetent, i imagine it would be simply a matter of saying "well we set a test, he failed, so we didn't hire him"
<freespace>
there would also be long term trends
<freespace>
it is hiarder to prove a single case
<freespace>
but if a company consistent hires women with say, C cup or larger
<whitequark>
the reply could be "you haven't hired anyone of the $minority_name, therefore you're discriminating against them"
<freespace>
no, that's now how anti-discrimination laws work
<freespace>
that is unworkable
<whitequark>
that's what I'm asking about. I don't get them
<freespace>
i mean, if not one applied, how can you hire them?
<freespace>
basically, if you know you didn't get hired because of your creed or gender, or some aspect unrelated to your ability to perofrm tehe job
<freespace>
they would be discriminating against you
<freespace>
i mean, no one is really saying men are discriminated against in the bra shop assistant job
<whitequark>
hmm
<freespace>
but hey, when was the last time you saw a male bra shop assistant?
<whitequark>
I don't really go to bra shops, ya know
<whitequark>
never thought about it :) but I get your point
<freespace>
in any succesful economy, they have to be reasonable
<freespace>
b/c as you say, they would otherwise be exploited
<whitequark>
well, one way this could work is like: after someone goes to court, they give you an industry-standard test
<whitequark>
but I don't really see how could this work for all fields. it would be a whole lot of work
<freespace>
let the lawyers sort it out.
<whitequark>
sorry, but last time I've seen lawyers actually "sort it out" was like never.
<freespace>
most likly the defence would say "here are our documented reasons to not ihire X that has nothing do to with his sexual prefeence, and we have employees of his sexual preference already"
<whitequark>
hm
<freespace>
hehe, speaking of discriminations
<whitequark>
if you're a big enough company the latter statement should already be true, indeed
<whitequark>
might work
<freespace>
i think religious charities are allowed not to hire athiests b/c of that in the states
<freespace>
(that being the fct they are atheists)
<whitequark>
I doubt that anyone complains
<whitequark>
well, not *seriously*
<freespace>
depends on the job... if it as an accountant, i would be pissed
<whitequark>
I personally would be wary of the 'corporate culture'
<whitequark>
people all around being surprised at you not doing thing X, etc.
<freespace>
nod, i wo't applied for suc a job if i can help it... too much proselytising :P
<whitequark>
and it's kinda funny that you've mentioned being atheist accountant at a religious charity
<freespace>
yeah?
<whitequark>
because russian church has recently been caught smuggling tobacco through borders due to customs exempts