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<xiangfu>
(find a more precise fab) yes. totally agree. for fast, I just find random one in taobao. then they send back the PCBs in 3 days.
<xiangfu>
(a U-shaped ground trace) yes. I also notice that after I sent out those gerber files.
<xiangfu>
(one silo cap ) I ignore all those caps in first try. :-)
<xiangfu>
the first try has totally messed. but I learn quiet some on KiCAD, gerber files, making PCB etc.
<xiangfu>
the bad news is I never success with oven.
<xiangfu>
I made a working board today with hot air.(2 times hot air)
<xiangfu>
after burned 7 PCBs and 2 chips. :-)
<kyak>
xiangfu: hi! i guess qt4 still didn't build on buildhost?
<xiangfu>
kyak, checking...
<xiangfu>
kyak, great. the qt4 stuff compile fine now.
<wpwrak>
xiangfu: not a bad result at all. i thought it would take you a lot longer to get something that works. did you only use hot air or also heat from the bottom ?
<xiangfu>
wpwrak, I heat the pcb and chip in oven for ~3 minutes. then use hot air on top.
<xiangfu>
I set the hot air to ~350C.
<xiangfu>
~3 minutes hot air on top of chip.
<xiangfu>
wpwrak, oven: no matter what high temperature I set, the TIN only get soft. it doesn't reflow at all,
<xiangfu>
if I stick >220C for more then 2 mins. the PCB start burn. :)
<xiangfu>
TIN: I mean the tin ball of the chip.
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<larsc>
xiangfu: with flames and everything?
<xiangfu>
larsc, the PCB starts to change color(black). and smoke come out.
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<larsc>
xiangfu: nice toast ;)
<larsc>
viric: the small dots on the back of the chip
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<viric>
mh back is where text is, no?
<viric>
or that is front?
<larsc>
I'd call it front
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<viric>
ah ok :)
<viric>
you are not imaging chips as bugs then
<viric>
you mean the balls on the belly of the chip ;)
<whitequark>
xiangfu: uh oh
<whitequark>
are you trying to use pb-free solder? :)
<xiangfu>
whitequark, you mean the solder on the PCB?
<xiangfu>
viric, yes. what is the correct name of those 'tin ball'? :)
<wpwrak>
just "balls"
<wpwrak>
and chips don't normally have "front" and "back" but "top" and "bottom"
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<whitequark>
xiangfu: both on pcb and on the chip
<wpwrak>
xiangfu: using the oven to pre-heat is an interesting variation
<viric>
oh
<viric>
I thought that 'tin' was a metal closer to iron
<xiangfu>
whitequark, the chip is pb-free. the PCB I don't know. some random fab.
<viric>
as in 'tin can'
<whitequark>
pb-free solder seriously sucks if you don't have an oven with programmable profile
<viric>
But then I looked at the dictionary for the english word of the solder soft metal, and I discovered it's tin :)
<whitequark>
Í'd say that you can preheat the PCB at 170, or maybe 180 deg almost continuously
<whitequark>
if you go higher, it'll fry sooner or later
<viric>
whitequark: there comes into play the openPID?
<whitequark>
so, I preheat it to 180 and then apply the heat gun on top
<whitequark>
set to 320
<whitequark>
for 20 seconds and no more
<whitequark>
works very good on LQFP, but might not work so good on BGA
<wpwrak>
viric: maybe you can recycle tin cans in a pinch. heat them on the stove until they melt, add lead to lower the melting point, stir well, voila, kitchen-made solder :)
<viric>
you don't cook in that oven later, right?
<whitequark>
viric: haha, indeed
<whitequark>
heavy metals are quite poisonous
<viric>
good :)
<whitequark>
well I don't have one yet
<whitequark>
didn't have much time lately.
<xiangfu>
whitequark, thanks for share.
<whitequark>
actually, I have yet to turn on my M1 for the first time :/
<xiangfu>
whitequark, then I also have to use heat gun from now on.
<whitequark>
xiangfu: probably. it takes some practice, but after twenty fried pcbs/chips or so I was able to do it correctly each time
<wpwrak>
whitequark: why even bother with the oven for LQFP ? they're trivial with a soldering iron
<whitequark>
wpwrak: naw, I used the heat gun from the bottom for preheating and top for actual soldering
<whitequark>
for both desoldering and soldering
<xiangfu>
whitequark, (it takes some practice). I already fired 7 pcbs and 2 chips. I still need 10 burn chips class. :-)
<whitequark>
wpwrak: fine-pitch lqfps aren't easy
<wpwrak>
ok, desoldering is a different story
<whitequark>
.5 mm ones for example
<whitequark>
I find it way easier to do this:
<whitequark>
1. cover each pad with an appropriate amount of tin with the iron and lots of RMA flux
<whitequark>
relying on surface tension forces here
<whitequark>
2. more flux, place the chip correctly, apply heat gun and push it _very_ gently
<whitequark>
3. if the thingy doesn't work, probably due to not heating it enough, use _dry_ iron on every pin again.
<wpwrak>
i wouldn't put a lot of tin on the pads. else you have to maintain heat for a long time to make sure all pins actually sink into the solder
<whitequark>
wpwrak: you cannot actually place "a lot" of tin on pads
<wpwrak>
well, in the Z direction :)
<whitequark>
there's an amount it will absorb, and it will try very hard to get this exact amount
<whitequark>
you obviously need to have soldering mask, and the pads should be quite small
<wpwrak>
i keep my tin flat (microns). then lots of water soluble flux (less messy than RMA) and always a "wet" iron
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<whitequark>
wpwrak: with wet iron, I tend to get a lot of solder bridges
<wpwrak>
ah, don't have solder mask in my diy boards. that would make things too easy :)
<whitequark>
which are incredibly hard to remove without ruining the pcb
<wpwrak>
apply flux and "paint" over the pins, away from the chip. surface tension will take care of the bridges
* xiangfu
will read logs tomorrow. have to sleep.
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<whitequark>
as per solder mask, I find it comparable by cost to just purchase the pcbs at fab
<whitequark>
when you include the cost of my time spent fixing everything which could be just avoided by having a mask, not drilling anything, not having to remake the PCBs, etc.
<wpwrak>
ah yes, drilling is a pain
* wpwrak
<3 his cnc mill ;)
<whitequark>
drilling is a huge PITA, positioning can be hard, chemical processes are not health-friendly and not easy either
<whitequark>
unless you're doing lots of simple boards and need really low cost and small turnaround time, I wouldn't really recommend the laser printer process
<wpwrak>
for me it's the turnaround
<wpwrak>
and yes, i try to keep them small
<whitequark>
you could pay $30 for a moderately complex board and have it in 3 days here in Russia
<whitequark>
well maybe $50. I mean, per batch of 10.
<wpwrak>
so $50 for 10 boards or for each of that batch ?
<whitequark>
for 10
<wpwrak>
ok, those are good prices
<whitequark>
hm, let me make sure I'm saying the correct price
<whitequark>
well no, I was not entirely correct.
<whitequark>
2 layers, mask, silkscreen on both sides: $60 preparation, $12 per dm², 3 days.
<wpwrak>
so $180 for the batch. and you have to wait :) but yes, if you actually need ten boards, it's more convenient. i tend to make two only identical boards at a time.
<wpwrak>
then the next generation learns from my mistakes :)
<whitequark>
+$10 delivery, or you could pick it up yourself
<whitequark>
well yeah, there's a chinese fab which lets you have 10 boards less than 10x10cm for $25 total
<whitequark>
plus delivery
<whitequark>
if you use anything except airmail, it'll have comparable ETA and will be at least thrice cheaper
<whitequark>
they have some other nice offers like 4 layer 5x5 for $65, or 10x10 for $100
<whitequark>
which is very competitive to other fabs I've seen
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<LunaVorax>
Hello!
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<qi-bot>
[commit] Paul Cercueil: Hide the 'params' option from the user on the contextual menu (packages) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/0fc6ac6
<qi-bot>
[commit] Paul Cercueil: Use the '%f' token to insert the selected file on the params. (packages) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/e7e21b4
<qi-bot>
[commit] Paul Cercueil: Build file extensions filter from the MIME types present on the OPK (packages) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/5f1cff6
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