Topic for #qi-hardware is now Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs
<DocScrutinizer>
I should've answered: please change serial number of that defective device, to rule out something in driver fails on exactly that particular serial#
<DocScrutinizer>
"dear microsoft, we bought 500 workstations with win7. All are identical hw and same sw and config. one of those machines freezes screen after POST, while bios config works flawlessly. Please fix that bug in your OS!"
<wpwrak>
;-)
<wpwrak>
but yes, serial numbers sometimes do matter. particularly if they're in some sort of ID PROM chip :)
<wpwrak>
(sun used to have that. and we had one - at EPFL - that may have been flaky. of course, the heavy EMI from the experiments in the lab in the basement, right underneath the machine, didn't help)
<DocScrutinizer>
no, you should not connect the cut pin to GND. You should leave it NC, so user can connect it to GND or arbitrary other signal he likes, and replace the post with a new uncut one
<wpwrak>
hmm. you mean to give more routing options ?
<DocScrutinizer>
yep
<DocScrutinizer>
no use in connecting GND to a not existing PIN when we already got 3 more GND lines
<DocScrutinizer>
pin
<wpwrak>
hmm. making sure it's GND would enhance the barrier role on J21. but yes, that's admittedly not a strong argument.
<pabs3>
zenlunatic: I guess donating your time to work on it is better
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<kristianpaul>
roh: about that cool p2p pager project
<roh>
:)
<kristianpaul>
802.15.4 cheap tranceiver is ... in $$$ ?
<kristianpaul>
i liked rfm12b-like modules they are less than 2usd last time i remenber
<kristianpaul>
i asume 802.15.4 is like starting from 5usd?
<kristianpaul>
btw you also mentioned cdc-ethernet
<kristianpaul>
does it out of the box (some how?)
<roh>
it was chips for something below 10E i think
<roh>
whole device below 20
<kristianpaul>
wouldt be cool just plug a nanonote to computer and get instant connectivity..
<roh>
the mcu was 3$ or so
<kristianpaul>
i think we may share similar issues with cdc-ethernet :)
<roh>
sure. but its not for 'lots of ip' but rather 'send a sms through the jungle'
<kristianpaul>
really cheap mcu
<kristianpaul>
is nice,
<roh>
yeah. i need to get here here ;)
<kristianpaul>
for example i iamgine my nanonote, plug to computer and cdc-ethernet works of of the box then i get the message, beep !
<kristianpaul>
beep and buzz ;)
<roh>
i asked her about how we could get it onto the nn, but we dont know yet
<kristianpaul>
all encrypted pager right on my device.. but network dont work that automatically
<kristianpaul>
yes, as you said it requires some routers infraestructure as well
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<roh>
the nn doesnt do host-usb which would make it easier. but i think the stm32 should have enough pins so we can interface to spi too
<kristianpaul>
well !! invite her, no more to said, please share links blogs, etcc :)
<kristianpaul>
what is spi for in that case?
<roh>
to connect it to a ubb and the nn
<kristianpaul>
ok
<wolfspraul>
kristianpaul: very nice blog post from Artyom
<kristianpaul>
you also metioned 6Km, is not that too much power for unlicesed bands?
<wolfspraul>
well, let's be as inclusive as possible
<wolfspraul>
dismissing arm is not smart and good imho
<kristianpaul>
inclusive, what you mean?
<kristianpaul>
oh i see
<wolfspraul>
arm has been doing fabulous work the last 20 years and that brings us 2 USD chips nowadays that can do unbelievable things today
<kristianpaul>
yes not, but may be for some aplications move to a fpga is much interesting
<kristianpaul>
and will start to see this more often
<wolfspraul>
oh sure, I defend milkymist to every last bit
<wolfspraul>
it's the next thing
<wolfspraul>
but dismissing arm is not right
<wolfspraul>
I need to be careful about that as well, it's all too easy.
<kristianpaul>
oh no, i was kinding of course :)
<wolfspraul>
milkymist today is a tough nut to crack
<wolfspraul>
it's expensive, buggy, features at first sight look more like from a tech museum
<kristianpaul>
lol
<kristianpaul>
but yes..
<wolfspraul>
guess how it felt to work at ARM in the mid-nineties, when Intel was coming out with one market victory after another...
<wolfspraul>
so milkymist can win if it also creates a new culture of collaboration
<wolfspraul>
not just some new tech, where the existing tech is already there, written off, cheaper, better, etc.
<wolfspraul>
that's how I look at it, at least
<kristianpaul>
collaboration,yes, more software suopport ports etc.
<wolfspraul>
yes
<wolfspraul>
best documentation, best test instrumentation, friendliest to newcomers, friendliest to free sw stacks running on it, friendliest to research, and so on
* kristianpaul
try to be at least friendlier
<wolfspraul>
oh I think we are partially there already
<wolfspraul>
just try to email ARM :-)
<kristianpaul>
lol, no
<kristianpaul>
documentation is good, could be better but is there.. just a bit hard to find..
<wolfspraul>
my list was not meant to describe today, but the goal of how it can truly succeed
<kristianpaul>
and in french sometimes if you want a getting started guide ;)
<kristianpaul>
yes
<wolfspraul>
definitely not by dismissing ARM
<wolfspraul>
that's just ridiculous actually, if you look at milkymist today with a calm eye
<kristianpaul>
yeap..
<kristianpaul>
calm eye, and the result of a big list of missing features yes of course nobody can defeat that
<wolfspraul>
sure, more people need to join and contribute back
<wolfspraul>
but that is increasingly happening
<wolfspraul>
to the extent that such things happen at all right now, in collaborative IC desig
<wolfspraul>
design
<kristianpaul>
yeah, i got a mail yday froma guy with DE0 wanting to port milkymist soc to it :)
<kristianpaul>
wanting or wip, i dont remenber..
<wolfspraul>
nice
<wolfspraul>
invite him here (or #milkymist)
<kristianpaul>
oh yes..
<kristianpaul>
waiting he ping me :)
<wolfspraul>
oops
<wolfspraul>
I think there's something wrong with *all* mailing lists on qi-hardware.com ;-)
<wolfspraul>
that shall be investigated now!
<wolfspraul>
hmm. there could be a flood now, urgh.
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<DocScrutinizer>
thanks for all the thanks :-)
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<wpwrak>
the mailing list problem seems to have been very selective. seems that all of my mails made it without trouble.
<wpwrak>
so maybe the milkymist list wasn't affected ?
<wolfspraul>
sure, milkymist is not on the qi server
<wpwrak>
sigh. i'll never understand how that mailing list archive works. in the month of february, the mails archived in september (!) shrank by some 3-4%
<wpwrak>
or, and march 2011 grew by 1 kB :)
<wpwrak>
damn all those time travelers ! can't they be a little more careful about leaving traces all over the place ?
<viric>
:D
<viric>
I see you trust your brain a lot
<viric>
let me recommend you drugs.
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: those are pipermail bugs
<wolfspraul>
it's buggy and the speed of bug fixing is measured in decades
<wolfspraul>
that's just how it is
<kyak>
i think wpwrak is about to write his own archiver :)
<wolfspraul>
sometimes I do understand sebastien's GNU anger
* pabs3
shudders at his mailman & pipermail memories
<wpwrak>
viric: yes, it's probably a bad idea to do statistics when sober :)
<viric>
wpwrak: the speed of bug fixing of a piper?
<DocScrutinizer51>
10% real work getting done is much. 90 are overhead for tools and orga
<DocScrutinizer51>
while the 20 on top of 100 are for ranting ;-D
<DocScrutinizer51>
figure: no decent reset for peripherals of SoC
<DocScrutinizer51>
SiErr
<wpwrak>
power-cycling ? ;-)
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<DocScrutinizer51>
ohmy, they hired me for the wrong division, might have been of better use in proofreading chip datasheets/specs
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<Artyom>
wolfspraul: you judge too strong... There are number of reasons why I had to refuse from ARM now. But before describing them I would mention that I don't exclude possibility to use it again in developing my current project.
<Artyom>
Reasons to switch to MM SoC:
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<Artyom>
1) Most commercial devices use one-chip solution. Couple of examples: Javad's Triumth chip (ASIC) is based on leon3+custom_cores. Namuru project uses single FPGA to run soft-cpu + altera's peripheral cores + famous_namuru_correlator. gnss-sensor also uses single FPGA to run custom gnss-core and leon3.
<Artyom>
Techical resons:
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<Artyom>
2) ARM that I used for first experiments didn't allow to run namuru-core in FPGA and ARM on the same clock frequency. This is not only limitation of demo-board that I use but also limitation of ARM's interfaces.
<Artyom>
3) With ARM system I could use very limited memory (less then 100 kb) comparing to tens of Mb in MM SoC. Ohnestly speaking this is a limitation of the demo-board that I use. There is potential possibility to use external SDRAM-memory, but I don't know how fast it is for my tasks.
<Artyom>
4) It is easier to debug design with one chip then with two chips. I use less programmators. Reliaility of one-chip solution is higher. Price lower.
<Artyom>
5) For GPS/GNSS tasks FPGA is required in any way. There is no possibility to make correlator in ARM. (Ok, software solution is possible but that would be expensive solution which will require extra-difficult pcb design, soldering BGA-chips, solving signal-integrity issues and so on. That is why I don't consider software-correlator alternative ). So ability to refuse from ARM/DSP/any other...
<Artyom>
...controller seems attractive.
<Artyom>
But as i mentioned I don't exclude possibility to use my board with ARM. But this is because I use rather "weak" FPGA (spartan3e500).
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<Artyom>
And of coarse MM SoC also have weak sides:
<Artyom>
UART is very slow for my tasks, lm32 core is synthesised without cache for spartan3e wth xilinx soft.
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<whitequark>
wpwrak: what do you think of this...
<whitequark>
once there was an STM32. it still works, except for one pin
<whitequark>
it's 3.6V
<whitequark>
and on that pin, a voltage of 15V was applied from a tantalum 10u cap
<whitequark>
if I'd pour 120% H2SO4 on it and examine it under a microscope, would I see a crater where the protection diode should have been?