<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: or is it crystal time now ?
<wpwrak>
(the very high parameter stability i have reached now does suggest to me that whatever the problem is, it won't respond to simple tweaks. but of course, maybe there *is* something magic that would work :)
<wolfspraul>
what software do you use for the simulation?
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: me ? qucs
<wpwrak>
it's a bit like spice, but for people who've grown up with guis and not punch cards and fortran mainframes :)
<wpwrak>
in fact, i'd love kicad's eeschema to work like the qucs schematics editor - or to have a means to draw kicad schematics with it. it's extremely nice to use
<wolfspraul>
ok thx. learning about a new tool :-)
<wpwrak>
hmm, i just realize that one could make pcbs thinner by "embedding" tall components. now that would be something to win friends at the fabs :)
<wolfspraul>
roh: there is an absolute path to a png file in milkymist-assemble-howto.svg. I removed it before but your new commits brought it back, so I removed it again.
<wolfspraul>
maybe you can remove it in your original so that it won't come back in the next commit...
<wolfspraul>
this is the link: xlink:href="file:///home/labor/Desktop/Kunden/Milkymist-Howto/Mm1_rc1_parts_on_pcb_farb.png"
<wolfspraul>
I just made it a local path href="Mm1_rc1_parts_on_pcb_farb.pnt", I think that should work
<wolfspraul>
thanks a lot for your updates btw, I'm still amazed by this assembly guide!
<wolfspraul>
I will definitely include a nice printout of the guide with every m1, even when they are assembled.
<wolfspraul>
it gives a lot of confidence on how to unassemble/repair/open the unit
<wpwrak>
very good idea. maybe do the same for the ben ?
<wpwrak>
btw, regarding the case scans. if you still remember them, it's been so long :) i put them on hold because i needed the mill from time to time for milling and thus didn't have entire half-weeks to assign it to scanning. i did try to finish the main PCB around christmas, but the pc controlling the mill died mid-way through the scan. it's now been replaced but the new machine can't run the proprietary scan software yet (still working on
<wpwrak>
that). so i hope to get to doing the last scans once ben-wpan is finished. i didn't forget them :)
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: oh totally fine. we have a number of 'long wave' stuff moving :-)
<wolfspraul>
I think I read about your misfortunes with that machine somewhere a while ago...
<wpwrak>
it actually kept going for about a day with the disk/controller dead. but then the virtualized windows finally crashed :-(
<wolfspraul>
I am thinking how we can put more momentum into your ben-wpan work.
<wolfspraul>
I want to avoid that they are just some obscure boards that don't really catch on.
<wolfspraul>
in my mind it's only a success if, let's say 12 months later, we have significant free software development happening to support them
<wolfspraul>
but how to get there? how to get activity up in the Linux kernel?
<wolfspraul>
pretty much the only thing I can do is to try to lower the price, which only works if I simplify the whole thing.
<wolfspraul>
for example I could only sell them in sets of 4 (2*usb, 2*8:10), but then make that dirt cheap.
<wolfspraul>
at least that would give everybody some incentive to make use of all those radiators :-)
<wolfspraul>
just thinking...
<wolfspraul>
this could be something for the diy/arduino/sparkfun crowd too
<wpwrak>
i think an open "reference design" could already help the other diys
<wolfspraul>
that's implicit, no? what would they do with the reference design?
<wolfspraul>
my main concern is to kickstart practical (real world) applications
<wpwrak>
most people are afraid of the wrong things with rf. e.g., if you just implement a reference design, you've basically absorbed all the benefit of a module already
<wolfspraul>
not just theory, talk
<wolfspraul>
I think we are so deep in things, what most people are afraid of is 'hardware' in general.
<wpwrak>
what you still have to solve are antennas and the system integration. there, it helps to have reference data.
<wolfspraul>
I think we have to take your work directly into an application. Of course others can use it as a 'reference', it's all open.
<wolfspraul>
but I doubt anybody will do that :-)
<wpwrak>
i'm not much worried about the software side. that should be relatively easy. been there, have done it before ;-)
<wolfspraul>
we have to show the application ourselves
<wpwrak>
well, you can make a sensor board or such
<wpwrak>
(sw/app) yeah, i meant infrastructure. apps are a different story, agreed
<wolfspraul>
I realize more and more how much empty talk there is in hardware.
<wpwrak>
i hope to use wpan for controlling electricity at my home, but that's of course something that's extremely hard to commercialize
<wolfspraul>
because so few know much about it, everybody projects their assumptions, but it sounds like gained from a lot of experience where it is actually not.
<wpwrak>
hehe :)
<wolfspraul>
so the only way out of that chicken-egg problem is to pull all the way through yourself.
<wolfspraul>
make it work, add the software, get the certification, put a box around it, sell it
<wolfspraul>
and then 99% of talk will suddenly disappear
<wolfspraul>
the day at reichl-emv lab gave me a lot new confidence in this area
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<wolfspraul>
I already told him I may show up with some strange 802.15.4 boards :-)
<wolfspraul>
why is it hard to commercialize controlling electricity?
<wpwrak>
did he have any opinion on 802.15.4 ?
<wpwrak>
lots of local regulations and certifications
<wolfspraul>
no [802.15.4]
<wolfspraul>
I'm not worried about that [certs]
<wolfspraul>
compared to all the work we put into hardware, software, going through some tests/certification procedures is just some more work
<wolfspraul>
it's not overwhelming
<wpwrak>
and since its the kind of thing that is infrastructure, it may even be worse - only installable by certified electricians and that sort of stuff
<wolfspraul>
I'm in the real world.
<wolfspraul>
so one by one. first make it work, then bring it up in usability, including box, manual. and somewhere there are certs too :-)
<wolfspraul>
some countries will have nasty regulations, ok fine.
<wolfspraul>
there are a number of options to deal with them, country by country :-)
<wpwrak>
the problem i would expect with this sort of certs is that you may need one for each country, not just CE for a while continent
<wolfspraul>
as always you pick the low hanging fruits first.
<wolfspraul>
maybe, but I'm not worried.
<wpwrak>
perhaps the best would be to partner with companies that already make similar things, provide them with the core circuit and let them worry about the local issues
<wolfspraul>
doesn't sound right to me.
<wolfspraul>
pull it all the way through yourself, set an example.
<wolfspraul>
once you set an example, _maybe_ you can convince others to join.
<wpwrak>
well, you can do that. there are examples for this approach, too
<wpwrak>
another approach to ease things would be to approach a distributor of other systems with similar functionality. they ought to know about pitfalls.
<wpwrak>
there's one in germany for plcbus ... lemme see if i can find them ...
<Jay7>
this zones will give you about 80% of income
<Jay7>
because of high purchase ability of that zones
<Jay7>
other interesting countries are Brazil, Argentina, China and Russia..
<Jay7>
well.. I should release kexecboot 0.6
<wolfspraul>
Jay7: from my NanoNote experience, I'd rate them slightly differently
<Jay7>
wolfspraul: It would be interesting to hear your rating :)
<wolfspraul>
Europe 40% US 30%, those two are easy
<wolfspraul>
after that, Australia - very active scene. quite amazing considering that there's only 15 million people there?
<wolfspraul>
Japan, same
<wolfspraul>
very active, actually if I would have a local Japanese distributor, I might even be able to match the US
<wolfspraul>
after that, hmm.
<wolfspraul>
Russia?
<Jay7>
Japanese distributor should be easy to become
<wolfspraul>
not easy
<Jay7>
hm.. then I'm wrong :)
<Jay7>
wolfspraul: China?
<wolfspraul>
the problem is cultural
<Jay7>
and btw, India
<wolfspraul>
no way, China, India, Brazil - without hurting anybody I'd just say 'forget it'
<Jay7>
they growing
<Jay7>
hm..
<Jay7>
I'm totally wrong then
<wolfspraul>
you can throw them in with all other destinations, of course there are always individuals here and there
<wolfspraul>
like Werner in Buenos Aires :-)
<wolfspraul>
I know _great_ individuals in all those places, but I cannot see something more consistent/structured
<Jay7>
yeah..
<Jay7>
we all need local groups like LUG's
<Jay7>
eLUG :)
<Jay7>
I have idea to create embedded linux [hardware] portal
<wolfspraul>
so in that list, there would be Belarus, China, South Korea, Brazil, Argentina (Werner :-)), Singapore, and so on. Lots of them.
<wpwrak>
i'm a bit surprised brazil doesn't have more activity. they have a rather active free software scene
<wolfspraul>
I have never been there, so don't know.
<wolfspraul>
what I hear from the distance sounds very similar to my own extensive experience in China.
<Jay7>
Ukraine may be interested too
<wolfspraul>
yes
<wolfspraul>
hey we forgot Colombia :-)
<wolfspraul>
maybe after the easy big ones like US/Europe/Japan/Russia/Australia, it's hard to pin down nowadays
<wpwrak>
zrafa: do you know where the jornadas regionales 2011 will be ?
<wolfspraul>
I am very glad that I have such a global approach, I will definitely continue with that.
<wolfspraul>
have shipped nanos to Martinique, Philippines, Nigeria (yeah), and so on
<wolfspraul>
that guy in Nigeria is really cool actually
<Jay7>
Nigeria have strong free software community
<wolfspraul>
I'm not surprised to hear that, but except for that one contact don't have any experience.
<Jay7>
according to KDE people blogs :)
<wpwrak>
fisl12 (the BIG brazilian free sw event) will be in june 2011 in porto alegre
<wpwrak>
there are direct flights from buenos aires. now even from aeroparque :)
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: so you can plan your 2011 south america trip accordingly :)
<wolfspraul>
my samples are a bit too small for some places (just one or two contacts), but I feel good working with the data we've learnt in the first NanoNote year, and keep my mind and eyes open for new discoveries.
<wolfspraul>
the main reason that Japan was so successful was one single journalist who did an extensive review in a large IT magazine
<wolfspraul>
from that you get all sorts of contacts, LUGs, etc.
<wpwrak>
so, milkymist to slashdot, the reg, and heise ;)
<Jay7>
hm.. Eiphel was founded by russian
<Jay7>
I didn't know that..
<wolfspraul>
oh sure
<wolfspraul>
he's a great guy, I visited for 3 days last May
<wolfspraul>
the richard stallman of hardware
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: what do you think about writing some of the eeschema/pcbnew output files to stdout instead of a named file?
<wolfspraul>
(or accepting input files via stdin, although that's probably even less valuable...)
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: control + j will save my life !
<kristianpaul>
so usefull :-)
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: stdout could be nice, yes. or being able to pick a name in general. not very high priority, though. you can work around the fixed names easily enough.
<zrafa>
wpwrak: (jornadas regionales) no yet, but I will check and then I will tell you (last year it was in San Luis)
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: ;-))
<wpwrak>
zrafa: let's hope they didn't pick ushuaia ;-)
<zrafa>
haha
<zrafa>
wpwrak: fisl in Brazil is huge right?
<zrafa>
I mean, a big conference
<wpwrak>
zedstar: oh yes. very large.
<wpwrak>
oops, zrafa
<kristianpaul>
jornadas regionales de sofware libre?
<wpwrak>
yup
<kristianpaul>
argg i hate fedex deliver service here :/
<kristianpaul>
liers !
<wpwrak>
no saturday delivery then
<kristianpaul>
:-|
<wpwrak>
well, i'm not surprised. it's not part of the normal service
<wpwrak>
if you're really in a hurry, what works best is to ask them to leave it at their distribution center and go to pick it up there
<kristianpaul>
i'm not in  hurry i just like push for good service
<kristianpaul>
but they advice me yday to waiy for the package for today, whey they dont say the truth then..
<wpwrak>
how did you find out it's not coming ?
<kristianpaul>
at phone call
<wpwrak>
ah :)
<wpwrak>
you can ask them if you can go and pick it up wherever it is now. then you'll at least sleep well tonight :)
<kristianpaul>
i'm on that
<wpwrak>
(well, if you have a car. might be in a remote location in cali or such.)
<kristianpaul>
i  was in cali yday i offer go ther and pick but they say, no sir dont worry tomorrow will be deliver
<kristianpaul>
argg
<kristianpaul>
any way..
<wpwrak>
you can always make up a story. like you having to travel today and there's something in there you need. tell them that they already failed you yesterday, so now it's really an emergency.
<wpwrak>
whatever works :)
<wpwrak>
if course, if they're closed today, then that won't help either
<wpwrak>
also make sure you ask them what documentation you have to bring to identify yourself
<kristianpaul>
yeah np
<wpwrak>
around here, they're surprisingly lax, but that may not be the same everywhere
<lekernel>
kristianpaul: getting your m1?
<kristianpaul>
here are lax for everything.. :|
<kristianpaul>
lekernel: fighting to get it sooner ;-)
<wpwrak>
every minute counts :)
<kristianpaul>
ok it is somwhere in buga...
<wpwrak>
whee !
<DocScrutinizer>
wpwrak: so what are the results of RC and XTAL?
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: duh, serial cable :) real men build that while on the toilet
<kristianpaul>
i built one
<kristianpaul>
when realized that may be the package was lost somwhere after taiwan ..
<wpwrak>
heh :)
<wpwrak>
stuff from taiwan can take a while. e.g., EMS tends to be on the way for more than a week
<DocScrutinizer>
heh, I got 2 nice critters here, gift of somebody who wrote a sw to decode: a white block ~20*20*10mm, with a 3.5mm plug for headset receptacle, and a slot to slide your credit card
<DocScrutinizer>
rather nifty
<DocScrutinizer>
clearly iPhart design, but hey
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: the CC is for the built-in iTunes ? :)
<DocScrutinizer>
it seems CC transactions are cheaper when done "online"
<DocScrutinizer>
and you don't have to deal with customer signing papers, or you calling some AmEx clearance hotline to validate the card, or whatever might be involved
<DocScrutinizer>
not completely wrapped my head around the original business model that gave us these sugar cubes for free
<DocScrutinizer>
a tape magnet head in a small white plastic block, connected to AV plug's mic ring
<wpwrak>
if you have to call to validate, you still need to do that for online transactions. of course, in practical terms, this means that you'll never get that transaction processed
<DocScrutinizer>
honestly, I'm not too interested in the original usecase. It's just a nifty card reader for CC track 3(?)
<DocScrutinizer>
wondering if preparing my own cards with music on magnet tape would make some weirdo scratch machine
<DocScrutinizer>
the digital info on my CC doesn't sound too interesting ;-)
<DocScrutinizer>
or building a real magnetic tape recorder ;-D
<wpwrak>
a very short one :)
<DocScrutinizer>
oh no, it's only monophonic, that's not good enough for a tape recorder
<DocScrutinizer>
nah, I thought about using real 1/2" tape on reels to run thru the sugarcube :-)
<DocScrutinizer>
just for the fun of it - of course no real life usecase whatsoever, except baffling people
<DocScrutinizer>
you could stick a 21cm tape snippet at the edge of every page of a book. Maybe nice for kids, or ornithologists
<wpwrak>
more impressive if it can make sounds from a credit card
<wpwrak>
you can take the CC as a source of random numbers, then feed this into a generator of good-sounding tones (following musical theory). that way, each CC would have its own characteristic melody
<DocScrutinizer>
event cards for games (monopoly, whatever) come to mind as well
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: so, how is the adventure going ?
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: playing cards. with hidden information in a magnetic strip ;-)
<DocScrutinizer>
I wonder what a card deck for blind people might be like
<wpwrak>
braille ?
<DocScrutinizer>
you'd not want that to get read and maybe even seen by peers and the the card dealer
<DocScrutinizer>
so yeah, punch hole braille with a uniform backside second card glued to it might work
<lekernel>
may I reassure you, the flickernoise toolkit, even if not perfect, does a much better job than that
<lekernel>
the fact that there is no alternative is just sad
<lekernel>
anyway the mtk appearance can certainly be improved a lot with some work
<lekernel>
and less work than porting X-windows, for a better result in the end
<lekernel>
but since you like X-Windows so much, wpwrak, why not try to port it to get a taste of its crappiness?
<lekernel>
same with linux...
<lekernel>
though the linux kernel isn't crappy, but gcc is :)
<larsc>
and the theobroma lm32 port
<lekernel>
yeah, that too, maybe even worse than gcc :)
<wpwrak>
lekernel: i once had a quick look at kdrive and it didn't look too nasty. not sure if it has everything you'd want on mm1, though.
<lekernel>
get graphics accelerations and GTK/Qt to work on that then...
<larsc>
kdrive is an xserver
<lekernel>
FYI the LM32 GCC toolchain is so broken that it mistakes some Qt C++ methods for the class's destructors, with the results you can imagine
<lekernel>
besides, Qt is mega-bloated, a hello world app is 22M
<wpwrak>
lekernel: rounding errors when calculating the index in the method table ? :)
<lekernel>
not sure how you'd imagine fitting those 22MB + application payload + fpga bitstream + backup versions of those in a 32MB flash, that should also contain a user filesystem
<lekernel>
mtk/rtems, for all their faults, allow this very easily
<wpwrak>
lekernel: i once had a bootable linux with the X11 server on a 1.44 MB floppy :) but o
<wpwrak>
s/o/i'd rather not touch qt's c++/
<lekernel>
yeah, with twm and xterm?
<wolfspraul>
lekernel: where are the rtems sources?
<wolfspraul>
I tried getting an overview over the sources but couldn't find them
<kristianpaul>
ok finally got/buy the cable for 1.2usd
<wpwrak>
lekernel: not sure if there was space for that much ;-)
<lekernel>
wpwrak: I have a product for visual artists to get out of the door. not some thin client toy for nerds who play with cisco routers in their spare time. it's too expensive for them anyway
<wpwrak>
lekernel: well, that was for compatibility testing
<kristianpaul>
i guess is okay if i plug some usb powered speakers to the mm1
<lekernel>
kristianpaul: yes it is
<kristianpaul>
ah wait , dont have more usb ports avaliable >:-|
<lekernel>
there's a ~1A combined current limit for both ports
<lekernel>
yup. maybe a nice accessory could be a passive USB port "duplicator"
<wolfspraul>
actually many people are 'overloading' that max usb current
<wolfspraul>
sometimes with non-standard chargers that can go to 1A
<lekernel>
yeah, that's why I put the limit on both ports, so they can draw 1A from one port if they don't load the second
<wolfspraul>
or sometimes because they just give more amps than 500mA, for example on a Mac Pro you can easily draw 750 mA
<wolfspraul>
there you go, you do it too :-)
<lekernel>
there's some margin too before the polyswitch trips, I don't remember how much...  at about 1.4A or something
<kristianpaul>
thats cool !
<lekernel>
so the USB current limit isn't really enforced, it's more a protection against short circuits
<kristianpaul>
and toght i never used winamap efects
<wolfspraul>
this is sometimes a problem one can overlook when designing a device. say you always test with your mac, but your device draws 700mA. then later with some other host it won't work...
<wolfspraul>
from my infinite collection of stupid hardware design mistakes...
<lekernel>
if you stick to the norm USB current limits are crazy, there is for instance the "suspend mode" you are supposed to go into when you don't get regular polls from the host
<lekernel>
that one gave me some more headaches with the usb host design, because if you mess up the polls, your device goes into suspend mode and ignore whatever you send
<lekernel>
and it gives some headaches to device designers too, because there's a very low current limit for suspend mode
<lekernel>
hundreds of microamps iirc
<lekernel>
counting the current draw from the detection pull-up resistor you must place on one of the the data lines
<lekernel>
and the USB norm mandates the suspend mode
<lekernel>
it's really a fucked up standard
<lekernel>
in practice this is never respected, many passive USB gadgets draw hundreds of milliamps while supposedly being a device in suspend mode
<lekernel>
and I have never seen one malfunction :)
<lekernel>
(i.e. coffee heaters, lamps, etc. that have no communication features whatsoever with the USB host)
<kristianpaul>
wow  interwomen for  patch
<kristianpaul>
woven*
<roh>
wolfspraul: uh. i see.. how did you change the path? manually?
<kristianpaul>
hey, Milkymist One dint have implicit hardware RESET buton, is this the begin of a new era? ;-)
<lekernel>
it has, press the 3 buttons at the same time
<kristianpaul>
ah
<lekernel>
and release the button close to the LEDs first, otherwise this will enable manual DRAM timing calibration mode
<lekernel>
(if you enable this mode, which you can notice from a strange pattern on the screen, just reset again)
<kristianpaul>
yup
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: hmm, there's a small mechanical problem with the 8:10 card slot of the ben: when it "locks", it merely discourages the card from leaving on its own, but it doesn't really hold it.
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: with wpan, this means that you can accidently loosen the card (or remove it entirely, if you apply enough force)
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: you can also do this with a regular uSD card - it's just harder to grab it
<DocScrutinizer>
hmm, quite usual concept, it seems
<wpwrak>
probably. could be considered a feature. i just noticed that it comes out quite easily, despite already being a bit thicker and wider than the original.
<DocScrutinizer>
with my EeePC 701 I got in TPE, I complained about it's so hard to get out the SD card, and I sticked some tape to the card. Until somebody laughed at me and explained to my I need to push in the card to make it come out. Anyway no latch or whatever is fixing the card there
<DocScrutinizer>
and actually there's no notch or anything in a SD card, for a latch to hold it in slot. Only thing you could do is "close the slot door"
<DocScrutinizer>
on a slot like in EeePC where SD card protrudes ~0.5..1mm, that's not an option as well
<wpwrak>
look at the card carefully - there is a notch. it just doesn't go through the whole card
<wpwrak>
err no, it actually does
<wpwrak>
on the side where one contact is retracted
<wolfspraul>
yes I know this already
<wolfspraul>
not much we can do, I think
<wpwrak>
probably not. just something to keep in mind.
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusd: use crystal instead of trying to obtain an external clock from the Ben http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/c0941db
<wolfspraul>
LunohoD: much better. 802.15.4 with 6LoWPAN (later)
<zrafa>
wolfspraul: dont forget the 64Mb of ram special edition for Ron
<zrafa>
and 1024x768
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak_: (board) is a monster !
<kristianpaul>
in the good sense :-)
<wolfspraul>
zrafa: hah yes!
<wolfspraul>
"isn't it time to discuss 64 mb"
<zrafa>
NO
<wolfspraul>
what inspiration!
<zrafa>
my nn has 32MB!
<zrafa>
if next bunch has 64mb our current nns will have still 32mB RON!
<zrafa>
:P
<wolfspraul>
very good answer
<wpwrak_>
kristianpaul: (monster) yeah, it's quite big :-( maybe i can shrink it a little by rotating the crystal, but i'm not sure. the problem is that putting the crystal "upright" would mean that the traces would have a larger detour and this also means that they would need more room for the bend
<wpwrak_>
wolfspraul: sigh. how will you ever make money with that attitude ? :) make the old product obsolete, so people have to buy new ones. consume ! consume ! consume ! ;-)
<lekernel>
strangely (and perhaps fortunately), Ron doesn't comment much on milkymist :)
<wpwrak_>
lekernel: enjoy the quiet while it lasts :)
<lekernel>
I cannot really imagine what he'd say and ask, but i'm a bit afraid
<wpwrak_>
lekernel: he's good at finding the weak spots. so just think of what doesn't work well :)
<wolfspraul>
yes, exactly
<wolfspraul>
but for now he doesn't know what to compare it to
<wolfspraul>
when he has that it will start
<lekernel>
how did you meet this guy btw...?
<wolfspraul>
hmm. forgot. he was always around :-)
<roh>
i think he somehow pop-ed up while moko
<wpwrak_>
he's our bad conscience. our collective moment of doubt. a bit like the monster in "forbidden planet" :)
<roh>
wpwrak_: heh... i sank another day into micromanagement yesterday
<roh>
calculating details... .. sourcing sucks
<lekernel>
well, i would rather describe him as a talkative slacker :)
<wpwrak_>
lekernel: i think the technical term is "heckler" :)
<wpwrak_>
roh: don't worry, soon it's tax time again. that will take your mind off the boring sourcing ;-)
<roh>
*grmbl*
<wpwrak_>
((-:C
<roh>
wpwrak_: been there just lately... not nice.
<roh>
need to sell muuuuch more cases
<roh>
;)
<roh>
wpwrak_: i was thinking about cases for your 'stick' .. and ended up with millin molds and mixing some plastic in different forms for now. any ideas about materials?
<roh>
any removable form would be much bulkier.. i guess its a one-time-molded-in concept
<wpwrak_>
i was thinking of something elastic, rubbery. open on one side. you could then just put it over the board.
<wpwrak_>
with open hardware, it should be possible to open it when desired :)
<wpwrak_>
of course, a permanent casing would be easy to make. all you need is a bit of silicone and solvent. acetone, paint thinner, etc.
<wpwrak_>
well, the "baumarkt" type of silicone. there are others much nicer curing processes. with these, you'd mix two components, dunk the board, and it let it dry for a few hours. done.
<roh>
would be interresting to certify that
<roh>
by means of toxic, electric, mechanic properties ;)
<wpwrak_>
;-))
<wpwrak_>
should isolate quite well. the toxicity should also be significant :)
<wpwrak_>
mechanical properties ... well ... that's probably the least of our worries :)
<wpwrak_>
bartbes: yet it's still there. the current hypothesis is that using the ben's clock isn't such a good idea after all. so i'm now adding a crystal.
<wpwrak_>
(well, perhaps minus a few optimizations. i'll find those while soldering.)
<bartbes>
and what about a case?
<bartbes>
it looks awfully breakable
<wpwrak_>
if the board with crystal improves the noise, then all i need is a BER test and then it'll be good to go
<wpwrak_>
ah yes, the case issue is still unresolved
<bartbes>
so what could the issue with the clock be? is it too irregular?
<bartbes>
or using the wrong frequency?
<wpwrak_>
the board isn't too fragile despite being large. but it it'll act as a lever on the microSD holder in the ben
<wpwrak_>
the frequency is perfect. long-term clock stability if perfect. but maybe there's some noise on top of the clock.
<bartbes>
too bad we sacrific uSD
<bartbes>
but still
<bartbes>
huge improvement
<wpwrak_>
yeah. it would be nice to have a 2nd slot
<bartbes>
(if I can walk around the house with teh internets)
<wpwrak_>
the technology is designed for a maximum range of about 10 m. so you can't walk very far. but still, "this and the next room" ought to be possible.
<bartbes>
the room beneath me
<bartbes>
or above me
<bartbes>
I sure hope it's spherical ;)
<wpwrak_>
depends on the kind of floor you have :)
<bartbes>
pure lead
<wpwrak_>
grin
<bartbes>
I happen to live in prypjat
<bartbes>
I don't even know what the range of my wlan router is
<bartbes>
but I doubt it's very good
<bartbes>
however we have fast wireless around the house
<wpwrak_>
steel reinforced concrete already does a pretty good job at limiting this sort of radiation. also, terrace floors can be sealed with something that acts like a perfect shield. maybe it's actually lead.
<bartbes>
I have no clue
<bartbes>
but since as I said our wlan does pretty good, I expect it not to be too bad
<wpwrak_>
my wlan has trouble crossing the kitchen. and it's about 50 times as strong (transmit power) as wpan.
<bartbes>
also, in theory from my room to downstairs could use the windows ;)
<wpwrak_>
well, there's a tiny toilet in the path too. and the kitchen is quite long.
<wpwrak_>
windows are good, yes. RF always finds a way ;-)