<dlowe>
Not sure about a compiler but I bet I could write a C interpreter.
<dlowe>
The biggest hurdle would be parsing the crazypants POSIX header files.
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<aeth>
C compilers are (apparently; I don't speak from experience) easy to write. The hard part is optimizing. Challenge mode is supporting C++.
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<aeth>
C's probably one of the easiest languages to write compilers for because people manage to write dozens of them *in C itself*. I'd hate to have to try to implement a better language in C itself. I wouldn't be surprised if you could write a non-optimizing one in CL in a few thousand lines.
<sm2n>
yeah, I know multiple c compilers written in c, in under 20k or so loc
<sm2n>
which is amazing considering C's expressiveness (well, lack thereof)
<aeth>
yeah
<aeth>
just by the rule-of-thumb divide-by-10, that means aim for 2kloc in CL
<aeth>
almost anyone here would be able to write that, if true
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<aeth>
My guess is that the hardest part would be the parser because the CL community tends to not care about parsers (at least comparatively speaking).
<aeth>
no need to parse when your DSL is just s-expressions inside of .lisp files...
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<ldbeth>
good morning everyone
<Oladon>
Morning ldbeth!
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<aaaaaa>
beach: good!
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<jedii>
to make scalable web apps in lisp do I need a sql database?
<jedii>
would it come down to something like postgresql SBCL postmordern hunchentoot vs postgresql+tcl+naviserver
<jedii>
or could I use say manardb+SBCL+hunchentoot
<jedii>
Paul grahm talks of forking a lisp interpreter for each web client.......then using files on netapp and justlisp
<jedii>
hmm
<no-defun-allowed>
The most scalable thing would probably be to keep everything in memory, which is trivial.
<jedii>
I would do that just with SBCL/
<jedii>
?
<no-defun-allowed>
When that doesn't work, then you could use a SQL database or object persistence library like manardb, sure.
<no-defun-allowed>
Yes.
<jedii>
I talked to one friend one time and he simply kept clients 1-10 on box 1 and 11-20 on box 2
<jedii>
and it worked awesomely
<jedii>
but other peolpe bitched
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<jedii>
oh what if you lose box 2
<jedii>
or some bs
<jedii>
I fear common lisp is complex and I might not be able to learn it well.........
<jedii>
I am not a very experienced programmer
<no-defun-allowed>
Most Lisp web servers (well, Hunchentoot and Woo) will split up work between multiple threads.
<no-defun-allowed>
I would leave scaling between machines for later, and if you have many users or very demanding uses.
<jedii>
any tips on learning lisp?
<no-defun-allowed>
Nothing specific to Lisp really.
<jedii>
thank you good night
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<aeth>
I don't think Paul Graham's 1999 CLISP web architecture is at all relevant for 2020 probably-SBCL-but-maybe-CCL web architecture
<aeth>
a separate SBCL for each web client would eat so much RAM...
<no-defun-allowed>
Yeah, one does not need to fork when threads are supported by the operating system and Lisp implementation.
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<phoe>
hmmmm
<phoe>
it's been a while without an Online Lisp Meeting
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<beach>
phoe: I am not ready for the next one. Sorry!
<phoe>
beach: no problem! you don't have to be there all the time :D
<beach>
I know. Just saying.
<phoe>
yes - thank you for the videos so far
<phoe>
you're already the record-breaker with regard to the number of published OLM videos
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<beach>
phoe: Thanks. That takes a bit of the pressure off. :)
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<iissaacc>
is there any way to quickly get the version of a symbol with the package prefix attached?
<phoe>
iissaacc: what do you mean, version of a symbol?
<phoe>
you mean its string representation?
<iissaacc>
like '+ versus 'common-lisp:+
<phoe>
why do you want it quoted
<phoe>
where do you want to return it from
<beach>
iissaacc: In which situation. I.e. what do you mean by "get"?
<phoe>
I'm confused
<phoe>
the value of '+ depends on which package you are in
<phoe>
so you cannot always tell from outside which package the symbol + is from, unless you also know the current package
<iissaacc>
well the problem i have is i convert a symbol to its string representation. Then when it gets converted back into a symbol to be used in funcall it happens in another package, so i get an error saying the function is undefined
<phoe>
you're passing symbols through the network, or something?
<phoe>
or rather, the printed representations of those symbols through the network
<iissaacc>
yeah
<phoe>
yes, I assumed as much
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<phoe>
the KEYWORD package is very nice for this because keywords are always printed with the preceding colon (even in package KEYWORD) and because it uses no other package, hence all non-keyword symbols are printed with their package name
<iissaacc>
ahhh
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<iissaacc>
i wonder, can you (defun :somekeyword () (blah blah))
<phoe>
you can but shouldn't in general
<phoe>
keywords are a singular namespace, and you don't usually want to collide with other people's functions
<phoe>
and also LispWorks doesn't let you do that
<iissaacc>
right
<iissaacc>
thanks for that tip, very useful
<phoe>
pass your thanks to Xach, I think it was him who taught me that
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<Xach>
hey now
<Xach>
i think it is good and fine to define keyword-named functions and i think lispworks is being inconsiderate.
<Xach>
i think keyword-named functions should never appear in libraries or anything that is not a self-contained universe - so best used in your init files to define personal repl conveniences.
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<daphnis>
i'm trying to load the source code for "Practical Common Lisp" in slime/sbcl, but am told "don't know how to REQUIRE ASERVE" ..
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<phoe>
(ql:quickload :aserve)
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<daphnis>
phoe: thanks. i get a compile-file-error though.
<phoe>
not the ASDF compile-file-error though, the actual error should be printed in the repl
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<phoe>
somewhere above the ASDF complaint
<Xach>
hmmm
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<Xach>
to make it easier to find quicklisp dist-building errors, i've made some filtering that highlights only the fatal ERROR and WARNING parts from the build log.
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<Xach>
i wonder if it would be useful to make that easily runnable by anyone so they can quickly get to the important output
<phoe>
yes please
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<phoe>
huh, that is an ironclad error
<phoe>
what is your SBCL version?
<phoe>
also, (ql:update-all-dists)
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<Xach>
that ironclad is so old, it has a very long beard
<daphnis>
2.0.8
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<Xach>
(ql:update-dist "quicklisp") might fix the ironclad issue
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<daphnis>
aha. thanks, that seems to work.
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<drl>
Why does (format t "~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~a~%~%~a: " "PRAYER Ver. 1.1 MAIN MENU" "<A>dd-records <E>dit-records <P>ray <R>eports <Enter>-exit") print both strings at the repl, but after using save-lisp-and die to make a stand-alone executable only the first string prints?
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<_death>
likely need to force-output
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<_death>
also, ~10% is a thing
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<drl>
_death, force how? Also, what do you mean by "~10% is a thing"?
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<_death>
interesting that FORMAT lacks a directive to clear/force/finish output.. in my OUT macro I added an (:fo [:wait boolean]) operator (no clear operator though.. never used it)
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<_death>
I guess in FORMAT it would've been a "waste of a character" or something.. since it's not often you want to force/finish in the middle of output
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<ane>
Xach: what sort of build tests are run for quicklisp distributions? how are cyclic dependencies or dependencies towards other QL packages handled for a single system?
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<phoe>
ane: cyclic dependencies are detected on ASDF level, Quicklisp has nothing to do with that
<phoe>
the ASDF dependency graph is a DAG
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<ane>
oh right, duh; asdf does this
<ane>
I mean at some point it's just a directory with 1500 packages in ASDF's load path
<ane>
and you can get a DAG out of everything
<ane>
systems, not packages
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<phoe>
yes
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<Xach>
ane: i build each system and record what it loads, and use that to build a static index of what to load