jackdaniel changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/> | offtopic --> #lispcafe
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* Xach got to use (report-bug-in "mutility") and it worked fine
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<tormball> is there a way to set clisp -modern in .clisprc.lisp?
<Bike> i haven't used clisp, but it looks like you can replicate the effect with an in-package and setting *print-case*
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<no-defun-allowed> What's in CS-COMMON-LISP-USER? Does it try to downcase symbol names?
<Bike> i figured it would have the cl symbols but with lower case names
<no-defun-allowed> And (not really going to help with CLISP) doesn't...Allegro CL have a "modern" mode like that which makes people hesitate to use strings as symbol name designators?
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<tormball> *print-case* default is :UPCASE with -modern it is :downcase. But if I setq :downcase I don't have case sensitive variables like with -modern.
<tormball> Not sure how to look in CS-COMMON-LISP-USER. I'm in the REPL and there are quite a few CS-COMMON-LISP: prefixed values but no CS-COMMON-LISP:USER.
<no-defun-allowed> The package name is CL-COMMON-LISP-USER; I expect there to be no exported symbols (mirroring CL-USER) though.
<no-defun-allowed> But (setf *print-case* :downcase) (in-package :cs-common-lisp-user) should replicate it, like Bike suggested.
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<tormball> (in-package :cs-common-lisp-user) did it. Value of *print-case* doesn't seem to matter. Thank you.
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<tormball> Actually it only works in REPL or file not in .clisprc
<tormball> Just noticed -modern breaks tab completion too. Not sure why. system::map-external-symbols: There is no package with name "NIL"
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
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<beach> phoe: As usual, I am unable to understand the question. I guess, since I don't know what problem it means to solve.
<tormball> beach: good morning
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<beach> phoe: I think I figured out where the question was asked, and I will answer it later today.
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<phoe> beach: YouTube, under the third video for implementing CL
<beach> Yes, found it. Thanks!
<phoe> beach: I have a question. Let's say that I try to call a (block nil (lambda () (return-from nil))).
<phoe> Under what circumstances must CONTROL-ERROR be signaled, if there are any? Or is it compeltely up to the implementation?
<beach> You mean when the anonymous function is ultimately invoked?
<phoe> I mean like (funcall (block nil (lambda () (return-from nil))))
<beach> Right.
<phoe> Is this form required to signal a control-error? In what circumstances?
<beach> As I recall, the standard says it is undefined behavior.
<phoe> Yes, it is UB
<phoe> But then the page for control-error says
<phoe> clhs control-error
<phoe> "The errors that result from giving throw a tag that is not active or from giving go or return-from a tag that is no longer dynamically available are of type control-error."
<beach> I think that if the implementation decides to detect the situation, that's the error it must signal.
<beach> But there is no obligation to detect it.
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<phoe> OK - thanks
<beach> Sure.
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<flip214> Can I tell PRINT-TO-STRING to start each new leaf in a tree (normal CONSes) in a new line?
<flip214> currently it puts multiple lists in a line, if they're short enough.
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<phoe> I think you'd need to define your own pprint dispatch for that
<flip214> phoe: thanks, feared that already ;)
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<iissaacc> Can anyone point me to where I could learn to make an emacs keybind to run some CL code in the SLIME repl?
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<heisig> iissaacc: You mean something like (define-key global-map (kbd "C-c x") 'slime-eval-defun) ?
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<iissaacc> I want to make an #'in-package keybind, so I guess i need to define a new 'slime-eval-foo
<iissaacc> thanks heisig ill look at the slime source
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<_death> slime-repl supports shortcuts, so you can type ",in RET foo RET" in the repl and it will set the current package to foo
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<h4ck3r9696> Anyone familiar with usockets here ?
<beach> Ask your question and you will find out.
<h4ck3r9696> How do I do multithreading with it
<h4ck3r9696> Or even select ?
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<no-defun-allowed> (usocket:wait-for-input <list of sockets> :ready-only t) will do something like poll or select.
<h4ck3r9696> ok thanks
<no-defun-allowed> On SBCL, that will eventually select().
<no-defun-allowed> SBCL on a POSIX system, rather, Windows does its own thing.
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<no-defun-allowed> You may also be interested in cl-async if you want to do asynchronous code, but I would learn synchronous sockets first, so you don't lose your mind picking up sockets and async code (if you aren't familiar with either).
<h4ck3r9696> Can I easly integrate it with usockets? I don't think there are a lot of examples online.
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<no-defun-allowed> Not easily. usocket is synchronous and blocking (meaning it allows for sequential code that you can read staying in one piece), and cl-async is non-blocking and asynchronous (meaning you get a lot of "callbacks" and you have basically reinvented Node.js in your Lisp image).
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<h4ck3r9696> cl-async seems to be what i'm looking for. Thanks!
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<no-defun-allowed> Plain old multithreading is also possible using bordeaux-threads; oh dear, they've left already.
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<dlowe> one of these days I'd really like to see a lisp implementation with a fiber/thread scheduler runtime.
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<flip214> dlowe: that's a real hard problem... priorities, fair scheduling, assignment to pthreads, ...
<dlowe> yeah, very hard
<flip214> "hard" as in "needs lots of code that's already done in your OS scheduler"
<flip214> and most probably "done better" ;)
<dlowe> I can tell you from experience that my OS scheduler gets pretty unhappy with 100k+ threads
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<dlowe> or did. Maybe it's better now.
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<kelamir[m]> comp.lang.lisp is now available from https://www.usenetarchives.com/threads.php?id=comp.lang.lisp&p=0
<flip214> dlowe: yeah, but do you think your own would be much better, apart from 1 or 2 special cases that you care about?
<no-defun-allowed> CMUCL had green threads, but that was a common survival strategy when POSIX threads weren't around (also seen in early Java).
<flip214> I did work a few years on a c library doing fibers on pthreads... and it was no easy work
<dlowe> flip214: my personal own? no, I have no expertise in schedulers.
<no-defun-allowed> flip214: You just need to context switch faster than your kernel, which should be easy given you don't have to fiddle with the MMU.
<no-defun-allowed> I say "just"...
<flip214> no-defun-allowed: well, if you need the kernel to find out whether it makes sense to switch threads (I/O or other events), it doesn't make much difference
<flip214> ie. doing select() and then switching to some fiber stack isn't that much different from just blocking on read() and letting the kernel to its thing
<flip214> yeah, in principle user-space switching could save lots of CPU and memory.... but lots of things needed for a sound implementation
<dlowe> one thing fibers have that is unambiguously positive about fibers is signal handling
<no-defun-allowed> I think it worked well for Erlang and Go.
<dlowe> haha, I'm not woken up yet
<flip214> dlowe: as in unix signals??
<dlowe> yeah
<flip214> what's that much better? all signals blocked, exactly one pthread that gets all of them
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<dlowe> the actual handling of the signal is made more complicated. It's not unsolvable, just annoying.
<dlowe> yeah, I'm thinking of Erlang and Go
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<_death> this reminds me of https://github.com/aarvid/Actors
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<dlowe> I've seen better READMEs
<_death> the linked reddit thread has more info
<dlowe> ah, thanks
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<dlowe> sure sounds good
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<sm2n> dlowe, termite scheme
<semz> this is possibly a cffi noob question, but is there a way to dig through a chain of foreign structs (think a->b.c->d) such that: 1. there are no allocations except for maybe the final result 2. the solution isn't to calculate the offsets by hand every time?
<semz> it's fine if it only works for structs that are directly embedded, though if it can go across pointers that'd be even better
<dlowe> sm2n: I'm aware of it. Not common lisp.
<sm2n> ah, true
<dlowe> also, it looks daed.
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<sm2n> also true
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<mfiano> What's a good test you can come up with for checking if an integer is one of [4,7,10,13,..,∞] and not [0-3,5-6,8-9,11-12,..,∞]? I currently have (and (> i 1) (= 1 (mod i 3))).
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<beach> Looks good.
<Alfr> mfiano, a cl integer is never \infty .
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<mfiano> Right, then replace with most-positive-fixnum if you didn't know I meant mathematically zero plus the whole number set
<Bike> your test seems like the obvious way to do it.
<mfiano> Ok thanks
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* Alfr shrugs. Wasn't a really similar question asked a week or two ago?
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<mfiano> and I stupidly used the answer without much thought, when it was wrong. The above is correct
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<mfiano> Writing tests after 2 weeks of coding a new project discovered the problem.
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<_death> exchanging the conjuncts may be a bit faster
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<pxpxp> Does anyone have experience with hunchentoot session management? I'm trying to use sessions only through cookies, not URL rewriting. But in my minimal example here (https://pastebin.com/iJEcD9rv), hunchentoot does URL rewriting even though it also correctly sets a cookie (seen from the developer tools): after logging in, I see an unwanted "?hunchentoot-session=..." in the URL.
<pxpxp> This happens even with my attempt to set *rewrite-for-session-urls* to nil
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<flip214> pxpxp: the documentation says "Once a request handler has called START-SESSION, Hunchentoot uses either cookies or (if the client doesn't send the cookies back) rewrites URLs"
<flip214> do you see incoming cookies in HT?
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<sydney_locker> i suck dick
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<Cthulhux> good.
<pxpxp> I've looked at the packets with wireshark. On submission of the login form, the reply is a 302 Moved Temporarily, to new location: http://localhost:4242/?hunchentoot-session=<cookie> and also a Set-Cookie to this cookie. Then my client dutifully sends back the cookie. But I understand why hunchentoot does it this way: if the user didn't send back the cookie, the session would be lost.
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<pxpxp> However I thought setting *rewrite-for-session-urls* to nil would make the server send the cookie but not redirect to a URL containing it.
<edgar-rft> sydney_locker: better eat cookie! Om nom nom nom.
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<mfiano> YOu might be able to look at what clack's hunchentoot backend does. I know I've never seen it use GET query parameters for cookies.
<pxpxp> So I'll probably only have the URL "polluted" just after login (then when I click on a link, hunchentoot knows I'm sending back the cookies and everything is fine). Still, I'd like to avoid this if possible.
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<pxpxp> Okay I'll have a look
<mfiano> Might even be worth developing for clack so you can switch out the server in production without any server-specific code changes
<flip214> pxpxp: I can reproduce.
<mfiano> Or any for that matter, just a keyword swap
<flip214> the REDIRECT function
<flip214> takes an ADD-SESSION-ID
<flip214> that you could set to T manually
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<flip214> then it works
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<flip214> otherwise the ?ht-s=... gets added, unless you already have a cookie or provide a more-complete url
<flip214> pxpxp:
<flip214> (hunchentoot:redirect "/"
<flip214> :add-session-id nil))
<flip214> (hunchentoot:redirect "/login"
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<flip214> :add-session-id nil)))
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<pxpxp> It works!! Thanks!
<pxpxp> mfiano: I've considered Clack and I understand that it's probably a superior solution, but as a beginner I decided to go for the project with good documentation (I guess this might be a frequent debate?)
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<jasom> pxpxp: the choice of hunchentoot is fine; mfiano was suggesting you look at the clack code that interfaces with hunchentoot to figure out how this can be done, since we know that clack can do this with hunchentoot
<jasom> pxpxp: however I suspect that clack does not use hunchentoot's session management at all, so that's probably a dead-end
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<mfiano> Right, I was also noting that it _might_ be worth it to build on top of clack instead of hunchentoot directly, for the benefits that provides, and if you can't do it otherwise. Depends how invested you are already, etc, but it is an option.
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<jasom> Also the builtin session logic in hunchentoot looks questionable from a security point of view
<jasom> at least it's md5ing twice that's better than it could be
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<jasom> and you can plug the session-verify, and inherit from session to use something more obviously correct
<jasom> actually you can't do what I just said because regenerate-session-cookie-value is not generic nor is stringify-session. That's slightly annoying
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<jasom> pxpxp: try (setf hunchentoot:*content-types-for-url-rewrote* nil) ?
<jasom> pxpxp: try (setf hunchentoot:*content-types-for-url-rewrite* nil) ?
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<jasom> pxpxp: that will completely disable the url rewriting if I read the code correctly
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<pxpxp> jasom: no, it doesn't seem to work...
<pxpxp> (if I remove the :add-session-id nil and only (setf hunchentoot:*content-types-for-url-rewrite* nil) once on server startup)
<jasom> pxpxp: apparently there's also hunchentoot:*rewrite-for-session-urls* which is probably the better way anyways; I'll try with a quick test
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<asarch> Use Caveman2
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<jasom> (setf hunchentoot:*rewrite-for-session-urls* nil) ;; this works for my quick test
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<jasom> my quick test was (define-easy-handler (foo :uri "/foo") () (start-session) (redirect "/bar"))
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<pxpxp> jasom: interesting, it doesn't for me (I already had this line in my initial question)
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<dbotton__> not sure if my question about generics posted
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<dbotton__> is there a reason examples of clos use a defgeneric when it is automatically generated on first defmethod?
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<no-defun-allowed> It's considered better style, and you need a DEFGENERIC to use a non-standard method combination or other settings.
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<dbotton> ok thanks
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<Bike> or if you have interesting keyword argument behavior
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<dbotton> i
<dbotton> exceptions I understand. Was trying to understand the simple examples
<dbotton> I guess just a style issue
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<dbotton> if there were header files I guess would make more sense
<dbotton> but seems like dividing spec vs implementation details not common in Lisp
<no-defun-allowed> And you usually see DEFGENERIC in definitions of a protocol, as well as defining protocol classes.
<Bike> it can vary. beach, for example, likes to have a separate protocol definition, like this https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL/blob/master/Code/Cleavir/CST-to-AST/generic-functions.lisp
<no-defun-allowed> My code usually has protocol files, but they're probably not as clean as beach-style, as it also contains default implementations.
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<aeth> I usually put defgeneric, defconstant, etc., at the very top of the first relevant file, and then the other non-defun/defmethod defines like deftype/defclass/defstruct right below them
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<aeth> Often it makes sense to e.g. have a file full of just define-condition or a file full of just defconstant or whatever, but those are usually larger projects, which are rare. I could see myself having a file full of defgeneric, but it would have to be a pretty large application
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<phantomics> Just checking, was someone here talking about problems with cl-tcod?
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<phantomics> Thanks phoe
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