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<mrcom>
Correction: DEFGENERIC sets WHERE-FROM to :DEFINED unless it's already DECLARED, but ENSURE-GENERIC-FUNCTION _does_ then unconditionally clobber it to :DEFINED-METHOD.
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<Josh_2>
morning beach
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<no-defun-allowed>
Can set-funcallable-instance-function be called more than once with one funcallable-instance?
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<beach>
no-defun-allowed: I don't understand. Can you give an example?
<no-defun-allowed>
I'm working on FFI-ing Minecraft-obsfuscated Java to Common Lisp, and I have a obsfuscated-generic-function class which represents a foreign method. When created, it will set the funcallable-instance function to a function with lambda list (subject &rest arguments) which looks for a method for the SUBJECT and applies it with ARGUMENTS...
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<no-defun-allowed>
...Once we have found that method, I think it would be helpful to set the funcallable-instance function to one with a lambda list that reflects the arguments that method takes, so that an editor like SLIME can display what arguments the generic function should be called with rather than (subject &rest arguments) which is not very helpful.
<beach>
Nothing prevents you from calling set-funcallable-instance-function inside the funcallable instance function. You can even call it again at the end.
<no-defun-allowed>
To do that, we would have to set the function more than once; "to set *or to change* the function of a funcallable instance" suggests we could, but I'm not sure if I read that correctly.
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<beach>
You can set it as many times as you like. We do that all the time when the effective-method cache is updated.
<no-defun-allowed>
Perfect, thank you.
<beach>
Anytime. :)
<no-defun-allowed>
(:
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<no-defun-allowed>
Speaking of which, I made some progress with running ABCL in Minecraft, and was able to evaluate (minecraft:get-instance (jclass "net.minecraft.client.Minecraft")) after generating a package with all the methods from an obfuscation table, and it's slightly surreal.
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<asarch>
Are the lines #12 and #19 a condition handler?
<no-defun-allowed>
Line 19 establishes a restart, and line 12 establishes a condition handler.
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<asarch>
Thank you!
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<Demosthenex>
anyone here into TXR (and it's sublisp language)?
<Demosthenex>
while not directly on topic, it has an embedded lisp so i thought maybe ;]
<no-defun-allowed>
It
<no-defun-allowed>
Er, it's not an implementation of Common Lisp.
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<jeosol>
aeth: in?
<jeosol>
pjb: ?
<Demosthenex>
well, it was a longshot. it's not a CL, though i think it's a lisp-2. it's for pattern matching and reverse here documents. i was having an issue iterating over files and it's an uncommon language
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<Demosthenex>
nvm
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<loke>
Demosthenex: I know the author posts on Reddit a lot, and he loves talking about his project. I'm sure he'll be happy to help you out directly.
<loke>
It's actually a pretty neat thing. I just have never gotten into it.
<Demosthenex>
loke: yeah, i've been stuck on one problem since yesterday, irc/ml are pretty dead
<loke>
Demosthenex: Ping him in Reddit.
<Demosthenex>
that's a thought
<jeosol>
Resolving "ALEXANDRIA" is already a nickname for "ALEXANDRIA.0.DEV". error
<jeosol>
all my previous sbcl versions were laying round from 1.x.x versions, so just emptied, and the system loaded all the packages correctly. Normally it craps up and I have to do it twice normally.
<jeosol>
any googler from the bay area here?
<jeosol>
trying to connect with someone in a group there
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<asarch>
In this piece of code: (handler-case (parse-log-entry text) (malformed-log-entry-error () nil)), is (malformed-log-entry-error () nil) the "catch" part?
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<asarch>
Yes, it is (in the JAVA-STYLE EXCEPTON HANDLING box explains it) :-P
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<trittweiler>
asarch, Yeah it is. To be precise, it actually is a syntactic construct that describes a function which is installed as the handler for MALFORMED-LOG-ENTRY-HANDLER.
<trittweiler>
*MALFORMED-LOG-ENTRY-ERROR
<asarch>
Thank you! :-)
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<gaqwas>
does anyone know of a tool or something that provides a measure of cyclomatic complexity and similar metrics of a common lisp program?
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<splittist>
gaqwas: Coppick and Cheatham did some stuff with Lisp Flavors back in the day. (Although I guess since cyclomatic complexity was developed with 60's FORTRAN that's comparatively modern...)
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<gaqwas>
splittist, thank you. I'm still not sure what it is that I need/I'm looking for. If it is cyclomatic complexity or whatever
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<jmercouris>
how to get ASDF version in REPL? asdf:version asdf:asdf-version doesn't resolve
<Nilby>
I have to just do a (load "...wherever../build/asdf") before loading quicklisp to use a different version.
<jmercouris>
Nilby: what is "...wherever../build/asdf"? the built version of ASDF?
<jmercouris>
should not be enough to require ASDF?
<jmercouris>
from the manual: "Once the source code for ASDF is installed, you don’t need any extra step to load it beyond the usual (require "asdf"): ASDF 3 will automatically look whether an updated version of itself is available amongst the regularly configured systems, before it compiles anything else."
<Nilby>
Yes, it's the built version.
<jmercouris>
OK, I might as well give it a shot
<Nilby>
Whet version you get with require depends on the implementation and can be different for each one.
<jmercouris>
OK, I've loaded the file directly, still no luck
<jmercouris>
still get an error with 2.26 in there
<jmercouris>
I'll ask in the CCL channel, perhaps it is implementation specific
<Nilby>
But unless you have your own hacked asdf like me, I think it's best to use what quicklisp gives you.
<jmercouris>
Nilby: what do you mean? Quicklisp comes with ASDF?
<jmercouris>
I was trying to upgrade the version of ASDF that comes with CCL
<jmercouris>
so I downloaded it from GitLab and built it
<jmercouris>
CCL comes with 2.2X or so ASDF, and it was preventing me from loading some systems
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<Nilby>
Yes, or it depends.
<Nilby>
For development I just load my own before loading quicklisp except for on #+(or excl abcl lispworks) I (require :asdf). It usually works. But I'm also loading asdf "3.3.2.13".
<jmercouris>
so then why did you tell me that (require :asdf) as was written in my ccl init would not work and to load it explicitly?
<jmercouris>
maybe my fasls from SBCL are interferring?
<jmercouris>
NVM, they are in a different cache folder
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<Nilby>
It could work. It's unfortunately somewhat complicated what exactly will happen. It seems like each thing has it's own version of asdf at different times. And things can get weird because it sometimes hooks into require.
<Nilby>
I might just attempt to patch whatever doesn't work with the default quicklisp.
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<kmeow>
being unable grok asdf is actually what's been keeping me from building real systems in CL
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<jmercouris>
Good luck, so much indirection in ASDF
<Nilby>
I have nearly 2000 lines of .lisprc just to get a REPL, so I'm probably not a good person to ask, since I obviously like to make things over-complicated.
<jmercouris>
I am oft frustrated with M-. not functioning
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<kmeow>
it's more straightforward to link together object code you've assembled than to figure out how to put CL code into modules correctly
<jmercouris>
???
<jmercouris>
No, it isn't
<kmeow>
sure it is
<Nilby>
M-. is like the main feature of emacs/slime. There's a lot that has to line up to do it.
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<Nilby>
kmeow: I was very frustrated with that when I started too. But there's other ways to do things, and/or just copy other people's ways.
<kmeow>
oh I didn't mean in the sense of writing your own linker and assembler to do it, I meant using a linker and assembler as tools
<kmeow>
so my problem is I'll install packages with quicklisp or include code from different files I've written, and that'll work great for when I try to run the scripts
<Nilby>
Right. I agree the tools can be frustrating to use.
<kmeow>
but then not under some circumstances, like compiling to bytecode
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<jmercouris>
Nilby: Alright, so I did a simple (length (bt:all-threads)), and there are two threads... no matter what
<jmercouris>
so, certainly, cl-cffi-gtk is NOT running GTK on the main thread
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<jmercouris>
Looking at the project that it was forked from, there is an explanation of the macro within-main-loop
<jmercouris>
towards the bottom titled "Main Loop"
<jmercouris>
I wonder if I can tweak this behavior to run on the main SBCL loop instead
* Nilby
is reading...
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<Nilby>
So, I haven't looked at how GTK is running on macos recently, but I know normal macos GUI stuff all has to happend from a "special" thread that the libraries know about? or maybe create?
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<jmercouris>
special thread? not sure about that
<jmercouris>
main thread though, yes
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<Nilby>
But if the backend was to XQuartz vs real Quartz/Metal it shouldn't matter as much, so I'm suspecting webkit does something special for rendering on osx.
<jmercouris>
WebKit does something special in general, it has been patched to work on macOS, this is WebKitGTK+
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<Nilby>
I might try observing what a trival C WebKitGTK program is doing, and then compare it to what was happening under Lisp.
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<jmercouris>
I have such a program... just not sure how to introspect it
<Nilby>
I wish I could help more. I used my mac for years after the keyboard & mouse broke, but then when the battery exploded.. :(
<jmercouris>
I also have a working program in macOS
<jmercouris>
in Lisp
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<jmercouris>
so in my example that works, everything does happen in the main thread
<jmercouris>
I'm going to try that
<Nilby>
I could barely imagine webkit restricting itself to 1 thread.
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<Nilby>
There used to be a debugger on osx that wasn't xcode and didn't require even C debugging stuff. I think it was called Shark or something. You could sort of observe what threads were up to.
<Nilby>
With dtruss/drace it might be harder to see what thread is doing what.
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<jmercouris>
I have some experience with dtrace, but I find it difficult to use
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<Nilby>
I would bet Shinmera or rme would know better than me though.
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<flip214>
any ideas when ELS early bird registrations will start?
<Shinmera>
Hopefully soon.
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<pjb>
minion: memo for jeosol: you would have to remove the nickname from the old package before defining the new one or renaming it. This is done with rename-package. Something like: (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) (when (find-package :alexandria.0.dev) (rename-package :alexandria.0.dev '()))) (defpackage :alexandria.1.0 (:use :cl) (:nicknames :alexandria))
<minion>
Remembered. I'll tell jeosol when he/she/it next speaks.
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<flip214>
Shinmera: thanks
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<flip214>
"apt-get dist-upgrade" just brought me a new ECL! Sadly it's still some 16.1.3 and not a 20.x ;/
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<jeosol>
Good morning guys
<minion>
jeosol, memo from pjb: you would have to remove the nickname from the old package before defining the new one or renaming it. This is done with rename-package. Something like: (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) (when (find-package :alexandria.0.dev) (rename-package :alexandria.0.dev '()))) (defpackage :alexandria.1.0 (:use :cl) (:nicknames :alexandria))
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<jeosol>
pjb: Thanks I got the memo. It was a kind of weird issue but it's fixed now. I will save the code snippet you sent me
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<jeosol>
Do you guys have options or better way of managing configurations/parameter settings. Right now, I use some global variables and when I switch problem case (different application), I would like to update those variables to reflect the setting in the new problem case. It is getting difficult to manage as I need to remember to put that new global I
<jeosol>
added into the function call to cause the update
<jeosol>
I normally switch between two problem cases: Case 1: Simpler case, runs fast and used for testing and debugging. This can be read as the simpler version of the actual problem . Case 2: Actual problem, memory intensive, runs slower (not CL side but external application)
<jeosol>
I have different groups of global variables if you will that are used to create several CLOS objects. When I switch problem cases, the variables take different values. The problem cases are switch by loading (ql:quickload ...) a different system
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<jeosol>
Also, I am willing to move away from my current approach if there is a better way
<phoe>
either that, or do not use any globals at all - instead, make a config class that holds all the configuration parameters
<phoe>
and explicitly call your main function with an instance of this config class with all the fields filled in
<Nilby>
One easy way is to make different commands/functions for differnt configs, (defun slow-run (let ((*iters* 1e100)) (foo)))
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<jeosol>
Nilby: Thanks. When I load the slower application, it has the settings to for that test
<jeosol>
phoe: Thanks for the link. I think that could be the solution to these problem. Dealing with the globals for the large application, is getting hard to manage.
<jeosol>
like you said, I'd like to move away from using global variable approach. Also, this will force me to have a unified interface for all the test cases -- right now, they are different based on problem instances.
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<jeosol>
problem instances -> problem cases
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<phoe>
jeosol: globals stop being fun the moment you need to actually manage your configuration
<phoe>
especially if you also rebind them
<phoe>
s/globals/globals for configuration/
<jeosol>
phoe: I agree 101%. It hasn't been fun lately, and making me want to run away from my application
<jeosol>
I figured, I'd just stop now, figure out a better way, and then move ahead again
<jeosol>
the switch back and forth was an issue, usually, I'd miss one global, then I need to add it to the function for the update.
<jeosol>
Everything works fine though, but with more work each time.
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<jeosol>
If I could have this large config object, that I could look and edit occasionally, not necessarily like XML but loadable. I can make changes there, load it, and then I am good to go by just loading it
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<jeosol>
dmitri fontane(?) did mention to look at esrap when I mentioned this a while back at comp.lang.lisp. It seem like a lot of work to write the readers then, so I opted for the approach of globals
<jeosol>
I am not expert in writing the esrap readers at the time.
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<phoe>
jeosol: ubiquitous has config files
<phoe>
they are human-readable, so you can edit stuff there
<jeosol>
I'd say though, I will never attempt the application I am working on C++ as it would have taken a lot of effort
<jeosol>
phoe: you mean after writing the config files to disk?
<phoe>
t
<phoe>
let me give you an example...
<jeosol>
That's probably the way to go there, I need to be able to change my code, add the write variable in the config file so when read, it accounts for that change in the input
<jeosol>
This is the way it writes the config file?
<jeosol>
That's sweet.
<phoe>
yes
<phoe>
they are trees of key-value pairs
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<phoe>
where each node that is a hash table might be treated as a leaf but may also be treated as a node leading to next leaves
<jeosol>
I have been missing out. I tried a simple plist one time but not not managed at all.
<jeosol>
That's great. It should do what I need. My inputs are large in the hundreds of parameters leading to creation of several CLOS instances that then goes into the final object.
<jeosol>
I can use it to structure the inputs in small groups so they are manageable, and I could easily go to a section, and change or add some new input info
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<jeosol>
Thanks for the sample config file. This should help a lot.
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<pjb>
jeosol: in gneneral, don't use load (or even less quickload) to set variables and stuff. Instead, let loading files or system define functions, and use those functions to set variables and stuff.
<pjb>
jeosol: having toplevel forms in files to do stuff can be a PITA in other circumstances.
<jeosol>
unfortunately, I have used both approaches, especially the second more.
<phoe>
jeosol: as long as your objects are isomorphic to a set of mutually linked hash-tables that contain readable Lisp data, ubiquitous is a natural fit for the job.
<jeosol>
What about if you have a saving CLOS object in the config? Does that work.
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<phoe>
jeosol: oh, you want to be able to dump arbitrary Lisp objects?
<pjb>
I define configurations as a CLOS class, so I can have several configurations as CLOS instances.
<pjb>
I have methods to load and save the configuration instances to files.
<jeosol>
PJB: that sounds nice, not sure I can get to that,
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<jeosol>
amount of work?
<pjb>
very little.
<pjb>
It's easy.
<jeosol>
I have a large CLOS object (3d grid) that I use and has to be updated when I switch problem instances. Maybe saving the file path in the config file so I can read it back when I load the config file
<jeosol>
To give example, I have a 100x1x20 for my simple test case (2000 cells), but the large case can be 300,000 - 500,000 cells and several calculations have to be performed (once) and then I save the object.
<_death>
maybe you could store this object and the associated parameters in an sqlite database
<phoe>
I'd not dump it as a Lisp file
<jeosol>
Right now, I have a global *corner-point-grid* that stores the value when I switch configuration. after the switch, the grid is re-loaded/re-created each time, except for the large case, I start from a core file that has the grid loaded in
<phoe>
either store it in a binary form on the disk and load from there, or do what _death suggests
<pjb>
The nice thing is that once you have an object, it doesn't matter how things are done. You just send a message to the object. (or call a generic function). Saving to a file, to xml, to sexp, to a database or whatever, who cares!
<jeosol>
_death: really, store as what type in the db, except I am not understanding what you mean
<jeosol>
I did try using postgres (not what you suggested) but save the operations in a database table and tried to call it, but it turns out to be slower (at least on my linux machine). So now, I do all the calculations and save the image for faster restart.
<jeosol>
phoe: you don't recommend storing this as a lisp file?
<jeosol>
pjb: I guess your code snippet is with the ubiquitous approach, right?
<pjb>
Yes.
<phoe>
jeosol: I mean, 500000 cells seems like a lot
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<phoe>
ooh, you want to only save the file path to that file in ubiquitous - or did I get you wrong?
<jeosol>
phoe: The 500,000 cells is the whole grid, treated as a single instance. They are not separated cells per se.
<_death>
jeosol: if you don't care about interoperability, you can use cl-store to produce a blob that you can store in sqlite
<phoe>
jeosol: OK
<jeosol>
phoe: I was thinking saving a path where the object is serialized, e.g., using restore to read it back in.
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<jeosol>
_death: right now, I use cl-store to save the final object to a file and save the file path.
<phoe>
jeosol: that's good, ubiquitous will serve you well in that case
<jeosol>
but this not saving the grid object, but the final, larger CLOS object that holds everything that then allows me to do Y=F(X), where X is the larger, final object, that also includes the grid object
<jeosol>
phoe: so saving the grid file path in the config, and when the file path is read, I serialize the object back in. This is a better?
<phoe>
jeosol: yes. Basically, store blobs outside the configuration itself.
<phoe>
The configuration can contain namestrings to these files and such, but blobs shouldn't be dumped into config files themselves and instead should be standalone.
<jeosol>
That makes sense. Also, I would be editing those config files based on changes in code.
<phoe>
or editing them programmatically
<phoe>
if you feel like it, that is
<phoe>
#'(setf ubiquitous:value) is there if you need it
<jeosol>
That would be a nice feature.
<jeosol>
reading the page now. Do you know if there is a facility for grouping, or I could create that myself. So when the file is written, I could see the groups and go to the right section
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<jeosol>
_death, pjb, phoe: Thanks guys for all the hints and suggestions. If you drink beer, accept a virtual one from me :-). I'll get to work on this over the next few days
<phoe>
jeosol: grouping? what do you mean?
<phoe>
configuration is organized into hash tables which can hold other hash tables as values - this creates a tree structure
<phoe>
I think that's the kind of grouping you seek
<jeosol>
phoe: I meant maybe it writes the output in some order which I could easily make to be same as my program input
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<jeosol>
phoe: That's correct. That's the grouping I was thinking about
<jeosol>
I just need to create the other hash tables to get the right structure I need
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<phoe>
jeosol: no need to create the hash tables yourself, use a proper combination of #'(setf value) calls
<phoe>
ubi will create the proper HTs for you
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<jeosol>
I see. I'm playing around with it now on the repl and will look at a sample output
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