<brandelune>
Is there anybody to accept PRs there ?
<mfiano>
The project is quite ambitious and requires a lot of time. I think those experienced enough with CL to pull something of this magnitude off would rather use the language itself.
<no-defun-allowed>
How do I silence SBCL's compiler notes for one invocation of COMPILE?
<mfiano>
locally declare
<no-defun-allowed>
Something like (sb-ext:muffle-conditions sb-ext:compiler-note)?
<brandelune>
that's the link on the lispworks doc page
<mfiano>
The tarball is located on lispworks.com
<mfiano>
Linked right on the page I supplied
<brandelune>
the hyperspec is not free. I can't modify it, like use better css or things like this.
jjongMcCarthy has joined #lisp
<brandelune>
free as in "free software/free documentation".
<brandelune>
I can't read the small characters on the images. I can't change the images to things that I can use.
<brandelune>
etc.
brandelune has left #lisp ["Leaving"]
<no-defun-allowed>
wrt better CSS, I don't think anyone can go after you if you use a browser extension to insert CSS into the copy of the page your browser renders. I did that for a while.
<mfiano>
I see now that he was just trolling more than likely
FreeBirdLjj has joined #lisp
<aeth>
no-defun-allowed: I do that for Hacker News, to add a max width to the comments so it's actually readable fullscreen on desktop
<aeth>
And, really, the only reason I don't do that for all old-style websites without a maximum width is laziness. Wikipedia seems to be hard to do this on. I couldn't get it to work
<aeth>
Another thing that helps is to set your browser's default font to a sans serif like most websites use so it doesn't look out of place when the ancient web page doesn't specify a font
<loke>
aeth: Why would you fullscreen a browser window on a desktop?
<aeth>
loke: because with a tiling window manager, 2/3 width is usually hard to do, so it's either fullscreen (the default) or 1/2 screen (too narrow, and sites might serve you a mobile version because it's narrow)
<loke>
aeth: Stump?
<aeth>
I used to be able to do 2/3 width in stumpwm, but they changed the default behavior of balancing after opening/closing splits to make it auto-rebalance such that you keep getting 1/2 width splits, which are useless for browsers
<loke>
I configured predefined layouts for browser windows in Stump for tht reason
<loke>
Just a few lines of Lisp code
<aeth>
I mean, maybe you can really detailed mess around with it, but it's not a few keystrokes away like in the old behavior
<loke>
I thoughtit was? Can't you just adjust the way you want them and save the definition? That's what I did and it works fine.
<loke>
Actually, for that to work you don't even need to code
<aeth>
loke: 5 years ago in stumpwm, if you split down the middle twice like [ | | ] and then closed the correct pane you'd get [ | ] 2/3 1/3 split (either direction) so it was just a few keystrokes
<aeth>
loke: but now iirc you just get it to rebalance it back to [ | ]
<aeth>
I'm sure you can still get 2/3 width, but it's not just a few keystrokes in muscle memory
<loke>
Ah. I simply never split/join for the groups where I keep browser windows.
<loke>
I arerly split at all, since by groups have predefined splits that are perfectly adjusted.
<loke>
s/by/my/
<aeth>
loke: the problem is some sites (mostly the older ones, with no maximum width) are better 2/3 width and some (e.g. YouTube) are better 100% width, so it's not like you can just keep the browser at the same width for an entire browsing session for optimal experience.
<aeth>
In a regular window manager, you'd just configure it to set windowed to be 2/3 width (1280) and then maximize on the sites that are best used maximized
<aeth>
I don't think stumpwm is really on topic here, though
bitmapper has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
georgiePorgie has joined #lisp
<loke>
Why not? It's not like anything else is being duidscussed at the moemnt?
sjl has joined #lisp
<loke>
aeth: I just do <prefix>-F11 when I want something maximised (which is quite rarely)
philadendrite has quit [Quit: Leaving]
hsaziz has joined #lisp
<aeth>
loke: iirc that's fullscreen, not maximized, although there isn't that huge of a distinction when there's no window decoration
<loke>
Exactl.y
<loke>
And to me, there is even less difference since I don't use maximised windows it much.
<aeth>
I actually use almost exclusively maximized windows when I'm using a tiling window manager vs. not, where I'm more likely to tolerate a bunch of irregularly sized windows that come up at whatever size they come up at
<aeth>
I have two monitors for my desktop, and those are usually good enough "tiles" for most tasks, that one split.
<aeth>
If I had three monitors, I'd probably NEVER split.
<loke>
aeth: But a terminal window would have a this strip of content to the lefft and the rest completely empty
<loke>
I can't stand that. I have at least three terminals side by side
<loke>
Maybe 4 depending on monitor size
<aeth>
loke: I tile my terminal internally with tmux when I want it tiled.
<aeth>
Same with Emacs
<loke>
Oh
<aeth>
So most of my tiling is done by the application
<loke>
I only ever split Emacs veritcally. I handle the horizontal split by having multiple emacs frames side by side, and map S-o in Emacs to switch to the next Emacs frame.
<aeth>
I only need to have the WM control the tiles when I'm on multiple machines simultaneously, where tmux obviously wouldn't work (or maybe there's some configuration)
<aeth>
I split Emacs into up to 4 columns (tiny font with a large display), and sometimes split those into as many as 2 each. When I run out (8 Emacs windows), I bring in the other monitor, and only then do the C-x 5 2, C-x 5 o etc.
<aeth>
I had to actually bring up emacs to test that because it's been a while
MetaYan has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
<aeth>
I rarely put Emacs on two monitors, though, because I usually use the second one for Firefox and/or ("and" if it's an in-browser thing) the application I'm developing.
<aeth>
As far as a CL-driven graphical environment goes, though, I would be 95% happy with a replacement with GNU Emacs and the terminal. Well, the web browser, too, but that's asking too much.
<aeth>
s/replacement with/replacement for/
mathrick has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
milanj has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
madrik has joined #lisp
<loke>
aeth: What about the next browser thingy? I tried to build it but failed so I never tried it.
dddddd has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
clothespin has joined #lisp
karlosz has joined #lisp
space_otter has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
space_otter has joined #lisp
oxum_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
georgiePorgie has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
gravicappa has joined #lisp
FreeBirdLjj has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
babyHu has joined #lisp
babyHu has left #lisp [#lisp]
FreeBirdLjj has joined #lisp
oxum has joined #lisp
FreeBirdLjj has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
oxum_ has joined #lisp
<aeth>
loke: "I tried to build it but failed" is the typical experience when you rely on massive FFI :-p
froggey has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
oxum has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
froggey has joined #lisp
JohnMS_WORK has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
FreeBirdLjj has joined #lisp
<loke>
aeth: Yeah. I had that problem with Climaxima, so I ended up building an Appimage as well as Flatpak
Oladon has joined #lisp
<beach>
Good morning everyone!
mathrick has joined #lisp
asdf_asdf_asdf has quit [Quit: asdf_asdf_asdf]
shifty has joined #lisp
<fiddlerwoaroof>
loke: I've been experimenting with Iota to compile llvm bitcode to common lisp
<fiddlerwoaroof>
instead of using FFI to C, it works pretty well and bugs in the foreign code don't crash the image
<fiddlerwoaroof>
morning beach
notzmv has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<no-defun-allowed>
Silly question, but is it not possible to do something more like Zeta-C and represent pointers and structures in a way that doesn't require a byte array as a "heap"?
<fiddlerwoaroof>
no-defun-allowed: probably, what I've read about that strategy is that people often make assumptions about the result of sizeof
<no-defun-allowed>
True.
<fiddlerwoaroof>
At least, that's what vacietis says
<fiddlerwoaroof>
transpiling LLVM bitcode is more useful anyways
<no-defun-allowed>
Otherwise I think Iota is pretty cool, but it seems difficult to interface with Lisp for that reason.
<fiddlerwoaroof>
Because lots of languages can be made to produce bitcode
<fiddlerwoaroof>
e.g. ghc can compile Haskell to bitcode and Rust can be compiled to bitcode too
<no-defun-allowed>
The latter would be glorious to compile to Lisp.
<fiddlerwoaroof>
From my experiments with Iota, that'd probably be trivial
<fiddlerwoaroof>
(as long as it doesn't emit the handful of unsupported opcodes)
Bike has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
notzmv has joined #lisp
<no-defun-allowed>
"Announcing Rust #.(incf version): - Compiler emits <unsupported LLVM instructions> to thwart demoralization by Lisp nerds"
<no-defun-allowed>
I should take a peep at how Iota handles the pointer things. int2ptr (I think that is the name) and ptr2int are going to be the worst to port though.
ealfonso2 has joined #lisp
oxum_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
oxum has joined #lisp
FreeBirdLjj has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shifty has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
sjl has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.2-dev]
FreeBirdLjj has joined #lisp
asarch_ has joined #lisp
asarch_ has quit [Client Quit]
<asarch>
If I do (let ((aka 10)) ...) and '(shiro), what's the difference between AKA and SHIRO? I mean, why I can't (setf (car (list (quote shiro)) 10))?
<no-defun-allowed>
The latter invokes undefined behaviour as it mutates constant data.
<no-defun-allowed>
If you SETQ or SETF AKA later, you replace the data.
<LdBeth>
instead of launch free missiles
FreeBirdLjj has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<no-defun-allowed>
This box diagram might help show that (setf (car <a variable with a quoted list>) <value>) will change the quoted data, whereas (setf <a variable with a quoted value> <value>) does not.
igemnace has joined #lisp
<beach>
Nice diagram.
<beach>
What did you make it with?
FreeBirdLjj has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<no-defun-allowed>
I just used Inkscape for that.
<beach>
OK, good to know.
torbo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sjl has joined #lisp
oxum has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
oxum has joined #lisp
FreeBirdLjj has joined #lisp
oxum has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ealfonso2 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
kmeow has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
FreeBirdLjj has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
Oladon has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
oxum has joined #lisp
FreeBirdLjj has joined #lisp
ym has quit [Quit: Leaving]
Nomenclatura has joined #lisp
<asarch>
Thank you! Thank you very much! :-)
pvaneynd has joined #lisp
Nomenclatura has left #lisp ["p"]
Nomenclatura has joined #lisp
brown121407 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
brown121407 has joined #lisp
igemnace has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
quazimodo has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
quazimodo has joined #lisp
karlosz has quit [Quit: karlosz]
karlosz has joined #lisp
amerlyq has joined #lisp
karlosz has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
karlosz has joined #lisp
narimiran has joined #lisp
igemnace has joined #lisp
slyrus_ has joined #lisp
slyrus has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
amerlyq has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Nilby has joined #lisp
amerlyq has joined #lisp
vlatkoB has joined #lisp
georgiePorgie has joined #lisp
dale has quit [Quit: My computer has gone to sleep]
koenig has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
koenig has joined #lisp
brandelune has joined #lisp
FreeBirdLjj has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
georgiePorgie has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
ljavorsk has joined #lisp
shka_ has joined #lisp
asarch has quit [Quit: Leaving]
oxum_ has joined #lisp
oxum has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
shka_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
Nomenclatura has quit [Quit: q]
JohnMS_WORK has joined #lisp
narimiran has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
shka_ has joined #lisp
ljavorsk has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
scymtym has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
X-Scale` has joined #lisp
X-Scale has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
lavaflow has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
pvaneynd has quit []
Cymew has joined #lisp
milanj has joined #lisp
v_m_v has joined #lisp
<fiddlerwoaroof>
j
lavaflow has joined #lisp
v_m_v has quit [Read error: No route to host]
jjongMcCarthy has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jprajzne has joined #lisp
oxum_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<phoe>
brandelune: nothing in the GH repositories? What do you mean?
<brandelune>
it's only after that I was given your repository
ljavorsk has joined #lisp
oxum has joined #lisp
oxum has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
oxum has joined #lisp
<phoe>
oh right
<phoe>
I never got around to filling that one with information.
georgiePorgie has joined #lisp
scymtym has joined #lisp
brandelune has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
brandelune has joined #lisp
ljavorsk has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
brandelune has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
brandelune has joined #lisp
shka__ has joined #lisp
brandelune_ has joined #lisp
ebrasca has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
ebrasca has joined #lisp
brandelune has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Necktwi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<brandelune_>
phoe are you still interested ? do you want help ?
karlosz has quit [Quit: karlosz]
karlosz has joined #lisp
karlosz has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
karlosz has joined #lisp
karlosz has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<jackdaniel>
if I were creating a project which shows the spec (or in fact any other) and wanted to add an adjective, it would be something like PeeweeSpec, or BitsySpec ;-)
ljavorsk has joined #lisp
<shka__>
I like peewee
hhdave has joined #lisp
Nilby has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
orivej has joined #lisp
ljavorsk has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
<splittist>
Where does one get ecl these days? My ddg-fu is deficient :(
<jackdaniel>
we also have a mirror at gitlab.common-lisp.net
<jackdaniel>
to answer the unavoidable question: no, we are not moving to github :)
<splittist>
Thanks.
madage has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
georgiePorgie has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
madage has joined #lisp
chrpape has joined #lisp
davepdotorg has joined #lisp
random-nick has joined #lisp
georgiePorgie has joined #lisp
makomo has joined #lisp
HiRE has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
frodef has joined #lisp
HiRE has joined #lisp
georgiePorgie has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
narimiran has joined #lisp
_fe_ has joined #lisp
z147 has joined #lisp
v88m has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
adriano1 has joined #lisp
georgiePorgie has joined #lisp
v88m has joined #lisp
ljavorsk has joined #lisp
<phoe>
brandelune_: it's an old old project that might or might not be revived; I've realized that for most purposes CLHS is good enough of a reference and that the new Lisp Cookbook serves the purpose that I intended for other chapters of CLUS
<brandelune_>
I understand. My issue with CLHS is that it is not a free document. I can't even add a css or use readable images. Also, having the whole thing separated the way it is makes it hard to browse through the document and just discover things like I do when I read the elisp doc.
v88m has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
ggole has joined #lisp
<loke>
The teX source is freely available.
<loke>
Bu tit's written in a terrible way and it's practially impossible to process it into machine readable for without a lot of work.
<loke>
I started working on that a number of years back, and didn't get too far.
<loke>
Perhaps it'd be a good idea to pay someone to do it.
ljavorsk has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ljavorsk has joined #lisp
v_m_v has joined #lisp
<brandelune_>
loke Yes, I'm barely able to write a few pages of texinfo, I don't see myself working through 1000+ pages ot TeX...
<brandelune_>
just for the record, I sent a mail to lispworks asking if they could at least allow use for modified css or navigation images. Just that would tremendously improve the documentation
ljavorsk has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
ggole has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
ggole has joined #lisp
makomo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<p_l>
AFAIK the only issue is with redistribution, but I don't know how thoughtcrime it is to modify things in your jurisdiction
kmeow has joined #lisp
<brandelune_>
p_l :) thoughtcrime or not, the licence expressly forbids such use, redistribution or not.
<p_l>
brandelune_: ahh, so it *is* thoughtcrime in certain areas
davepdot_ has joined #lisp
<brandelune_>
I guess. The licence is basically totally proprietary.
<p_l>
brandelune_: in many jurisdictions, most of the claims in any license do not apply except when you redistribute
davepdotorg has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<brandelune_>
what's the point improving a documentation set if it is not for making the improvements available to the public?
<p_l>
while some conditions of use are enforced, I think provisions against modifications often aren't unless they are for the purpose of circumventing the terms on units used etc.
<p_l>
brandelune_: who said you can't propagate a program that transforms the documents?
<p_l>
so long as it doesn't have content of CLHS inside
<brandelune_>
I'd rather
<brandelune_>
1) try to convince lispworks that they should provide a better licence, or an improved package
<brandelune_>
2) short of that collaborate with people who are working on providing such a package
<p_l>
having an CSS stylesheet improving the looks is also useful ;) and can be shown as argument to LW
<brandelune_>
that's the contents of the mail I sent them :)
frgo_ has joined #lisp
frgo has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
adriano1 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
georgiePorgie has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
m00natic has joined #lisp
cosimone has joined #lisp
admich has joined #lisp
Guest19180 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
adriano1 has joined #lisp
DGASAU has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
DGASAU` has joined #lisp
adriano1 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
bitmapper has joined #lisp
<phoe>
brandelune_: AFAIK they are unable to do that
montaropdf has joined #lisp
<phoe>
they do not own all of the CLHS since it is directly based on the ANSI standard
<phoe>
which itself is proprietary and owned by ANSI
<brandelune_>
ok. And what about your project ? Have you definitely abandoned it ? Would you consider rebooting it with help ?
<phoe>
I have not abandoned it, I have put it on indefinite hold (;
<phoe>
and might think of reviving it, sure
georgiePorgie has joined #lisp
admich has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
heisig has joined #lisp
adriano1 has joined #lisp
<brandelune_>
what kind of help do you need ?
<phoe>
;; oh gods here come the hard questions
jmercouris has joined #lisp
<phoe>
I guess organizational help will be good - so I figure out what is already done there in the project
<phoe>
At one point, we planned to use ccldoc as the result documentation format and formatter - for which purpose I've managed to load and run ccldoc on SBCL instead of just CCL
<phoe>
we've also somewhat overzealously made edits to the resulting pages and then diffed them against the original sources to figure out what exactly we edited
<phoe>
the project is kind of a mess and it would be good to figure out what and how was done and what needs to be undone
heisig has quit [Quit: Leaving]
heisig has joined #lisp
heisig has quit [Client Quit]
heisig has joined #lisp
adriano1 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
v_m_v has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<Shinmera>
brandelune_: fwiw people have been writing userscripts and userstyles for ages and it's a fine way of distributing improvements to websites that can't be otherwise modified.
gko_ has joined #lisp
v_m_v has joined #lisp
heisig has quit [Quit: Leaving]
heisig has joined #lisp
<brandelune_>
phoe :) wow
<brandelune_>
Shinmera hence trying to convince Lispworks to do it themselves so that users don't have to reinvent the wheel everytime.
<brandelune_>
It would be just enough that they *explicitly* allow the use of external css and graphics.
<Shinmera>
? what do you mean every time? You put the script up on greasyfork or whatever and people that hate the look so much can use that.
amerlyq has quit [Quit: amerlyq]
_fe_ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<brandelune_>
One way to do that is just add a <link rel="stylesheet" href="../../clhs.css" /> to all their pages
<Shinmera>
which is essentially what stylish/stylus do, just without requiring any action from the provider.
<brandelune_>
yes, except that the provider does not authorize such modifications.
<Shinmera>
it really doesn't matter.
<brandelune_>
(there is a link to a stylesheet though, just that laughingly underdeveloped)
<brandelune_>
Shinmera maybe it does matter to me, are you fine with that ? I'd rather see Lispworks free their documentation.
<Shinmera>
the clhs was made around 1995. CSS was not really much of a thing.
<brandelune_>
the latest copyright is 2005
<brandelune_>
I understand that they are not css experts in the first place, but they could take advice from people who are.
<Shinmera>
A lot of people have tried to change this. It never happened.
<brandelune_>
Hence the importance of projects like phoe 's
<brandelune_>
But whatever, I'm just procrastinating and blathering about stuff I have no understanding of.
<brandelune_>
I guess I just needed to vent today. Sorry for that.
<Shinmera>
I'm saying you can just leave it be a userstyle and move on to things that have better chance of success.
<Shinmera>
If you post about your userstyle on reddit and elsewhere I'm sure some people will appreciate the effort.
z147x has joined #lisp
z147 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Guest19180 has joined #lisp
fivo has joined #lisp
Guest19180 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
jmercouris has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
v_m_v has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Necktwi has joined #lisp
adriano1 has joined #lisp
milanj has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
wxie has joined #lisp
<brandelune_>
Shinmera, indeed, a CLHS css competition to show Lispworks what can be done with their data :)
<pfdietz>
Xach: chanl was patched two hours ago.
adriano1 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
frodef has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
v_m_v has joined #lisp
v_m_v has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
montaropdf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<splittist>
ebzzry: don't forget parentheses, quotes, semicolons (i.e. comments) are implemented as reader macros
lavaflow_ has joined #lisp
lavaflow has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<ebzzry>
Yes. Thank you. What I only need are the parens.
<jackdaniel>
arguably you don't want Common Lisp reader then but rather something like esrap
montaropdf has joined #lisp
<ebzzry>
jackdaniel: I’ll take a look at it.
rwcom8 has joined #lisp
rwcom has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
rwcom8 is now known as rwcom
georgiePorgie has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
X-Scale has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
X-Scale` has joined #lisp
X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
shifty has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
shifty has joined #lisp
admich has joined #lisp
oxum has joined #lisp
makomo has joined #lisp
pfdietz66 has joined #lisp
milanj has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
Bike has joined #lisp
lavaflow_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
Guest19180 has joined #lisp
sabrac has joined #lisp
LiamH has joined #lisp
Guest19180 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<ebrasca>
Hi
<sabrac>
Hello
dddddd has joined #lisp
cosimone has quit [Quit: Terminated!]
<phoe>
heyyyy
cl-arthur has joined #lisp
z147d has joined #lisp
v88m has joined #lisp
cosimone has joined #lisp
<sabrac>
phoe: 338760 passed tests later, my (as yet non-optimized) unicode normalization function works. So I can finish up the scram-sha-256 work and get back to your binary problem
z147x has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<phoe>
sabrac: <3
<phoe>
congrats
Necktwi has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
brandelune_ has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
<phoe>
> Exception safety guarantees (...) are a set of contractual guidelines that class library implementers and clients can use when reasoning about exception handling safety in any programming language that uses exceptions (...)
<Bike>
well, those definitions are independent of the nature of the error handling/whatever
<Bike>
so sure why not
<shka__>
Bike: ok, thanks
Necktwi has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<shka__>
phoe: yes, like basic stuff
<shka__>
i don't have anything unusual in mind
<phoe>
I guess that Lisp conditions can be treated as exceptions if you treat INVOKE-DEBUGGER as if it was C++'s std::terminate
Necktwi has joined #lisp
<phoe>
so each ERROR call either is handled by some handler or the debugger is entered
<shka__>
well, yes, I just want to use common phrasing so people understand concept
<Bike>
you could add some wrinkles to account for restarts but it doesn't seem like it would be hugely different from the basic frame here
milanj has joined #lisp
<shka__>
Yes, i think so as well.
z147d has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<phoe>
from this point of view, restarts are mostly a debugger thing, unless you manually use INVOKE-RESTART in a condition handler
<phoe>
at which point they can be thought of as an extension of condition handlers
z147d has joined #lisp
<Bike>
that's kind of a big unless.
<phoe>
yes
<phoe>
but I assume that, for "exception safety" in Lisp, we lose the moment we enter the debugger
<phoe>
so everything that happens after that point in time (which is where restarts mostly come into play) doesn't matter anymore
MetaYan has joined #lisp
<Bike>
i mean look, you don't need to worry about whether there's a debugger or terminator or whatever. You could call a function that alters a data structure, and wrap the call in a handler-case, and consider whether the data structure is coherent at handling time. bam, strong exception safety
sjl_ has joined #lisp
<Bike>
you don't even need nonlocal exits for this analysis, i'd say. You could have a function that returns the altered data structure and a status, and analyze whether the data structure will be unchanged if the status is whatever error
<phoe>
hm
<phoe>
I see
<phoe>
oh wait - I was talking about the no-throw part
<Bike>
"always succeeds" is pretty straightforward i think. you could separate out "always succeeds but the caller might need to invoke some restarts"
<phoe>
yes, for everything else, you can talk about exception safety - since it refers directly to data cohesion in case of an "exception", or error in Lisp semantics, and/or resource leaks.
<phoe>
I guess that's a separate category for languages which have restart systems built-in, and C++ is not one of them
kajo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
Guest19180 has joined #lisp
dale_ has joined #lisp
dale_ is now known as dale
<pfdietz66>
PL-I !
<shka__>
phoe: well, there is also stuff like: "ensure that threads are killed during non-local exit"
Guest19180 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
brown121407 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<shka__>
or "files are closed"
brown121407 has joined #lisp
asdf_asdf_asdf has joined #lisp
<phoe>
shka__: that's the non-leak property
<shka__>
even in CL you have resources to leak
<phoe>
so, basic safety I guess
<phoe>
yes
<shka__>
yup
<shka__>
which is exception safety
jprajzne has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
madage has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
frgo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
z147x has joined #lisp
z147d has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
madage has joined #lisp
rumpelszn has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.6.6+deb1ubuntu0.2 - http://znc.in]
rippa has joined #lisp
ljavorsk has joined #lisp
Necktwi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
montaropdf has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3)]
rumpelszn has joined #lisp
Guest19180 has joined #lisp
Necktwi has joined #lisp
Guest19180 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<jmercouris>
jackdaniel: The issue was with typelib generation, the GIR files were malformed during library compilation
<jmercouris>
the g-ir-compiler/scanner had a bug in it which has been since been merged upstream
sunwukong has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
edgar-rft has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<jackdaniel>
I don't know what you are talking about, sorry
<jmercouris>
jackdaniel: apparoximately three weeks ago we discussed @rpath in dylib files and why cl-gobject-introspection was not loading a particular library
<jackdaniel>
oh, good for you that you've figured it out
ljavorsk has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
<jmercouris>
thank you
<jmercouris>
froggey: did you have to change any closure source for compilation?
v_m_v has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
kajo has quit [Quit: From my rotting body, flowers shall grow and I am in them and that is eternity. -- E. M.]
kajo has joined #lisp
admich has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
ljavorsk has joined #lisp
Cymew has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
jmercouris has joined #lisp
DGASAU` has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
DGASAU` has joined #lisp
efm has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
efm has joined #lisp
Guest19180 has joined #lisp
asarch has joined #lisp
patlv has joined #lisp
Guest19180 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
LiamH has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
davepdot_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
kajo has quit [Quit: From my rotting body, flowers shall grow and I am in them and that is eternity. -- E. M.]
Jesin has quit [Quit: Leaving]
LiamH has joined #lisp
efm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
lavaflow_ has joined #lisp
efm has joined #lisp
ljavorsk has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
DGASAU` has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.3.1)]
DGASAU has joined #lisp
lavaflow_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
ljavorsk has joined #lisp
hhdave has quit [Quit: hhdave]
v_m_v has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
efm has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
Jesin has joined #lisp
frodef has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
DGASAU has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
DGASAU has joined #lisp
frgo has joined #lisp
ljavorsk has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
efm has joined #lisp
frgo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
frgo has joined #lisp
shifty has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
<ebrasca>
How to call some function with list in place of &rest rest ?
efm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
cosimone has quit [Quit: Terminated!]
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
(funcall func 'a 'b 'c 'd) I think.
<boeg>
ebrasca: do you mean you have the arguments in a list, and you want to call a function with the content of the list a arguments?
<ebrasca>
boeg: Yes I have argument in a list.
<travv0>
ebrasca: apply
<boeg>
if so, what asdf_asdf_asdf said
<travv0>
(apply #'+ '(1 2 3 4)) => 10
<boeg>
or travv0 :)
<ebrasca>
with apply how I pass first argument ?
<ebrasca>
Do I need to make lambda?
<travv0>
(apply #'+ 1 2 '(3 4)) => 10
<phoe>
You need to have a funcallable thing in there. So either a symbol or a function object.
<travv0>
like that
<travv0>
oh i misunderstood
ravndal has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.7]
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
(defun abc (&rest a) (loop for i from 0 to (list-length a) collect (nth i a))) (funcall (function abc) 'a 'b 'c 'd) ; => (A B C D NIL) ; ebrasca look at
rumpelszn has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.6.6+deb1ubuntu0.2 - http://znc.in]
<ebrasca>
ok it is working (apply #'mezzano.sync:wait-for-objects-with-timeout timeout (wait-list-%wait wait-list))
rumpelszn has joined #lisp
z147d has joined #lisp
ljavorsk has joined #lisp
z147x has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<Xach>
asdf_asdf_asdf: please don't offer help yet
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
No, this is was good point.
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
I sometimes guess and impart a answer.
<Xach>
asdf_asdf_asdf: they have not yet been correct, please stop.
<Xach>
A guess is worse than nothing.
DGASAU has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
DGASAU has joined #lisp
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
He answered too quickly, so I missed and not didn't make it fix it.
ljavorsk has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
I must answering, because I learn CL, yeah.
fengshaun_ is now known as fengshaun
<wsinatra>
/mouse enable
<phoe>
🐁
m00natic has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shangul has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
jmercouris has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
hhdave has joined #lisp
shangul has joined #lisp
hhdave has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
shangul has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
ebzzry has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
DGASAU has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
DGASAU has joined #lisp
edgar-rft has joined #lisp
<beach>
asdf_asdf_asdf: I agree with Xach. Please refrain from trying to help. Lurk harder.
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
No lurk harder, no, only not this. I can, You can, all can.
<beach>
I think you have completely failed to appreciate the conventions of this channel.
<phoe>
asdf_asdf_asdf: in knowledge-requiring matters, trying to help when you don't know how to help tends to only worsen the problem
<phoe>
your example isn't even answering the original issue
MinnowTaur has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
OK, I will see.
shka_ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
<beach>
asdf_asdf_asdf: I am curious. When you produce "answers" like that, is it that you are convinced that what you say is correct, or is it that you don't care whether you mislead the person needing help and simultaneously create noise for everybody and showing your ignorance?
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
No, I for mislead say "sorry".
<beach>
Then I strongly suggest you only try to help when you are sure that you are right.
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
You too quickly make a answer and I not can make it.
kamog has joined #lisp
<phoe>
no one forces you to make one though
<beach>
Especially not a wrong one.
cosimone has joined #lisp
pirmino has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<phoe>
^
brown121407 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
adriano1 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
brown121407 has joined #lisp
milanj has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
vlatkoB has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
vlatkoB has joined #lisp
brown121407 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<ebrasca>
asdf_asdf_asdf: It is not some competition for helping others.
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
Here are race to helping, yes of couse. This is very quickly answering. O yeah.
Khisanth has joined #lisp
<phoe>
this isn't stack overflow where you get karma for answering as fast as you can
<phoe>
and even if it was, you can get downvoted to oblivion on stackoverflow anyway
<Shinmera>
can we get asdf_asdf_asdf banned again? They already were before for the exact same stuff as is happening now and obviously they haven't learned anything by the ban.
milanj has joined #lisp
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
No, I do nothing. I can exit here.
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
I'm leaving because I trolling on the channel.
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
Because is trolling*, I don't trolling.
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
asdf_asdf_asdf has left #lisp [#lisp]
<Bike>
epic
kamog has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3)]
<ebrasca>
\ban asdf_asdf_asdf
<alandipert>
to the extent none of us really know if we're right about something before suggesting, i'm not sure how i feel about asking others not to try to help, as a convention
kajo has joined #lisp
<Xach>
alandipert: I think this case relies on a history of inaccurate suggestions and a strong resistance to correction.
<Xach>
There is also a significant language barrier
<Xach>
both human and computer language
makomo has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<phoe>
it kind of gets annoying after a long while when a single person does that thing over and over while not reacting to suggestions and requests that they should stop and pay proper care to properly learning CL first
<alandipert>
just my .02. i read most of the traffic here and don't find myself annoyed. possibly i just have high tolerance to Internet, but i detect no ban-worthy ill will
<Xach>
I think there is a reaction to suggestions - the reaction is "Go to hell, you can't tell me what to do"
xuxuru has quit [Quit: xuxuru]
CrazyPython has joined #lisp
narimiran has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<alandipert>
yeah i dunno, i'm not bothered by that i guess. i do what i can, but in the end ignorance suffers itself
* alandipert
goes back to lurking hard
scymtym has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
<jackdaniel>
ha, at last I'm not the most recent bad guy™ (/me passes the baton)
<no-defun-allowed>
They told me they were more interested in learning SBCL's FFI than Common Lisp, if that means anything.
kajo has quit [Quit: From my rotting body, flowers shall grow and I am in them and that is eternity. -- E. M.]
<Bike>
it's... kind of nonsensical?
zmv has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<phoe>
"Recursive expansion of the type specifier returned as the expansion must terminate, including the expansion of type specifiers which are nested within the expansion."
<phoe>
I kinda wonder what would happen if that clause accounted for short circuiting AND and OR type specifiers the way the respective macros work
<phoe>
(Other than the fact that it would likely break all sorts of current type system optimizations and introduce possible typechecking-time loops)
<Bike>
short circuiting, like, (and nil ...) = nil? determining that a type is bottom is turing complete
gareppa has joined #lisp
rippa has quit [Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER]
<phoe>
yes, that thing
<phoe>
that would likely also allow recursive types, (deftype string-list () `(or null (cons string string-list))
<phoe>
but this is naive, as it will in turn is going to run in circles on circular lists
<Bike>
i mentioned this a while ago, but this kind of unrestricted recursion gets weird when you also have stuff like negation
gareppa has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<Bike>
oh, no, it was just subtyping
<Bike>
under the usual rule you could show infinite-list = (cons t infinite-list) is a subtype of nil, which is weird
CrazyPython has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
scymtym has joined #lisp
fivo has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1]
cosimone has quit [Quit: Quit.]
<phoe>
hm
<phoe>
correct
koenig has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
koenig has joined #lisp
cosimone has joined #lisp
cosimone has quit [Quit: Quit.]
cosimone has joined #lisp
papachan has joined #lisp
v_m_v has joined #lisp
rotty has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
rotty has joined #lisp
Bike has quit [Quit: Bike]
pfdietz has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
hiroaki has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
z147d has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Josh_2 has joined #lisp
developernotes has quit [Quit: leaving]
v_m_v has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
hsaziz has joined #lisp
Guest19180 has joined #lisp
gnufr33d0m has joined #lisp
brandelune has joined #lisp
nowhere_man has joined #lisp
cl-arthur has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sjl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
akoana has joined #lisp
pfdietz has joined #lisp
LiamH has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
adriano1 has joined #lisp
pfdietz66 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]