<aeth>
hectorhonn: all of the non-string ways, including potentially some others you didn't list, will (probably, it depends on your settings but by default) translate to "ABC"
<White_Flame>
pillton: yes, hence my parenthetical statement
<pillton>
hectorhonn: There are less issues if you use "abc" instead of :abc.
<hectorhonn>
is there a good reference on this topic?
<aeth>
The only time you ever want to modify stuff like that is if you're implementing a case-sensitive language within CL, which, of course, can have issues at the interface between the two.
<aeth>
For all practical purposes, CL is a case-insensitive language that upcases unless you escape with || like '|foo| because you'd break too much code if you switched modes.
<hectorhonn>
White_Flame: then how about '#:abc? what does that mean?
<hectorhonn>
aeth: not sure if you are replying to me, i meant this as in "abc" vs :abc vs #:abc
<White_Flame>
hectorhonn: it won't work in IN-PACKAGE
<aeth>
hectorhonn: "abc" will produce the package "abc" aka :|abc| or #:|abc| whereas :abc and #:abc will produce the package "ABC"
<aeth>
(at least by default)
<White_Flame>
btw, are you learning for the first time, or digging into some of the edge case specifics? For the former, #clschool is probably more appropriate
<White_Flame>
you'll get a LOT of minutia here ;)
<aeth>
hectorhonn: The way CL does its (mostly) case insensitive behavior is by upcasing, so if you want to literally refer to something you either have to upcase the string manually or you have to do (symbol-name 'foo)
<hectorhonn>
aeth: ah so it should be "ABC" vs the rest
<aeth>
yes
<hectorhonn>
White_Flame: oh yes clschool... i keep forgetting
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<pillton>
hectorhonn: The reason for all the "don't go here talk" is because of readtable-case, *print-case* and the specification of the COMMON-LISP package. (in-package #:abc) gives the illusion of writing case insensitive code but you end up in a world of hurt anyway because the COMMON-LISP package and all of its exported symbols are specified to be upper case.
<pillton>
hectorhonn: Things become even worse when you consider multiple users and using libraries written using different non default readtable-case and *print-case*.
<verisimilitude>
I still find myself here, because I still use #ada and why not lurk here as well?
<verisimilitude>
How has your learning been going, hectorhonn?
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<hectorhonn>
verisimilitude: been looking around testing frameworks
<hectorhonn>
i've seen fiveam and prove, but somehow i dont feel satisfied
<verisimilitude>
I find testing to be overrated.
<hectorhonn>
hmm, how to put this? i want to write the tests in the source file itself, then i can press c-x c-e directly without changing buffers
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<hectorhonn>
verisimilitude: why so? lisp has no static checking, i have no idea if i break anything else when i change something somewhere
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<verisimilitude>
Generally, you should have well-defined boundaries and, depending on the nature of the code, will find it simple to make changes or at the least get put in the debugger when they're invalid.
<verisimilitude>
I just find them overrated, hectorhonn, but you may think differently. It's just my opinion.
<hectorhonn>
verisimilitude: haha, a small amount cant hurt
<verisimilitude>
I'm sure that's what they thought about UNIX and C, too.
<xsperry>
I wouldn't want to maintain a large project without unit tests, especially one written in dynamically typed language
<verisimilitude>
Perhaps the best comment I can make is how there's a difference between actually testing software and this ``testing'' of software.
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<xsperry>
what is this units thing mentioned earlier? is that irc bot thing, or actual lisp library?
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<flip214>
Why does (babel:string-to-octets (base64:base64-decode "8TpYsprZQt9cX6YKFC/QKgvGS/c=")) give a different result from # echo 8TpYsprZQt9cX6YKFC/QKgvGS/c= | base64 -d | hexdump ??
<flip214>
ah, perhaps babel tries to use utf8 by default?!
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<no-defun-allowed>
can split-sequence split on another sequence as delimiter?
<flip214>
no-defun-allowed: use (CL-PPCRE:SPLIT) for _everything_ ;)
<shka__>
no-defun-allowed: yes, but supply :test
<no-defun-allowed>
i'm splitting vectors of bytes
<no-defun-allowed>
so no
<shka__>
equalp probabbly
<no-defun-allowed>
right, thanks
<shka__>
remember though that equal will not work on vectors
<flip214>
no-defun-allowed: BABEL:OCTETS-TO-STRING might help then
<no-defun-allowed>
as in (split-sequence #(1 2) #(3 1 2 3)) => (#(3) #(3))
<no-defun-allowed>
flip214: i'd love to see you encode the file i have into utf8
<flip214>
no-defun-allowed: no, bytes via LATIN1 to a string?!
<shka__>
ah, ok
<flip214>
though you're right, I've no idea what you're trying to split
<no-defun-allowed>
i have a 28mb ROM i'm trying to sift through, strings wouldn't work
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<no-defun-allowed>
hey heisig
<flip214>
no-defun-allowed: I'd probably use radare, IDA pro, or similar for an initial split ;)
<flip214>
into data/code/etc.
* no-defun-allowed
sighs
<no-defun-allowed>
i don't have any of those, but there's big #xff runs which i assume are to preserve flash lifespan
<flip214>
no-defun-allowed: and 28MB isn't that big - even in a 32bit character encoding that's less than 128MB, so should fit nicely into any smartphone even ;)
<flip214>
no-defun-allowed: I guess I'd just use a LOOP myself, and split on 4kB boundaries or so
<no-defun-allowed>
right
<flip214>
no-defun-allowed: if you're doing many such searches, perhaps you'd want to convert into a vector of 32bit values first?
<no-defun-allowed>
i can see there's two cromfs areas in hexl-mode, but i need to get them out somehow, preferably not by searching for the end myself
<flip214>
no-defun-allowed: well, the "hd" binary conveniently leaves out repeated areas already -- so just do # hd rom | grep -A1 -B1 "^\*"
<flip214>
to get the offsets ;)
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<aeth>
28 MB isn't just not that big... it's approaching "fits in cache" territory, but not quite there yet since only a few have 32 MB and most are still 8-16 MB
<flip214>
aeth: try programming an ATTINY, and then repeat that ;)
<no-defun-allowed>
on the next problem, what kind of name is unmkcromfs and how do i get it to extract the cromfs?
<aeth>
flip214: do you program one with CL?
<no-defun-allowed>
if you can fit CL in <8kb, yes
<no-defun-allowed>
also, you can't modify program code at runtime so it'd be very lonely
<flip214>
aeth: no, though I'm using ulisp on an ESP32
<aeth>
What year was 32 MB a normal RAM amount?
<aeth>
no clue where I'd find that information
<flip214>
no-defun-allowed: do you mean a CRAMFS?
<no-defun-allowed>
my aunt's 1999 desktop had 64mb
<flip214>
no-defun-allowed: there's a forth for 8kB
<no-defun-allowed>
half of 1999 is 999(.5), so then probably
<aeth>
I'd guess somewhere in 1995-2000 for 32 MB
<no-defun-allowed>
flip214: nope, cromfs according to `file` and the strings in the rom
<no-defun-allowed>
(but really, i think 97-ish would be fair)
<varjag>
i had a workstation with 32mb at the time, it was solid config then
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<schweers>
I have a slightly off-topic question. I have a class COST which calculates costs based on given initargs (using INITIALIZE-INSTANCE). This code has been tested and all is well. I now want to test another function, which creates a COST object using said initargs. In order to simplify testing, I’d like to make it configurable how such a COST object is created. The easiest way I can think of is adding a keyword argume
<schweers>
to the symbol COST. Does anyone have a better idea?
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<White_Flame>
your message got a bit cut off
<White_Flame>
2 ways: pass in a "factory function" (whee java terminology), eg (lambda () (make-instance ...)), or pass in a list of initargs and use APPLY on MAKE-INSTANCE
<schweers>
The thing is that my old code already passes objects it produces on its own to MAKE-INSTANCE, so I’m not sure how APPLY and a list of initargs may help me. On the other hand ... is a lambda really different from supplying a different symbol?
<_death>
if it's just for testing, you may find change-class useful
<schweers>
Now that I think of it: the old code is a regular defun, while the new code I’m refactoring it into is an INITIALIZE-INSTANCE method on a new class, so I might as well use a keyword.
<schweers>
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<schweers>
_death: I’m not sure how that would help me, can you elaborate?
<schweers>
The code I want to test creates objects and I want to change how these objects are created (just for testing, at least for now)
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<_death>
if you want to change how they are created, then change-class won't help
<schweers>
White_Flame: your suggestion sounds a lot like what I had in mind, so my idea seems to not have been so far off :) Thanks for your feedback!
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<Selwyn>
is there a way to print Lisp forms without the quote symbol and backquote symbol being replaced by ' and `?
<Selwyn>
at the REPL, '`(a ,b) ==> `(a ,b) whereas the desired output would be something like (MY-IMPL::QUASIQUOTE (A (MY-IMPL::UNQUOTE B)))
<Selwyn>
(i am interested in inspecting the implementation of quasiquote in different lisps)
<flip214>
Selwyn: that'll be implementation-dependent, then
<heisig>
Selwyn: Maybe fare-quasiquote ( https://github.com/fare/fare-quasiquote ) can help you. As flip214 said, quasiquotation is, by default, very implementation-dependent.
<Selwyn>
ah makes sense. thanks for the links and answers
<|3b|>
turning off *print-pretty* might help?
<|3b|>
otherwise, you can walk the tree and print elements manually
<Selwyn>
turning off *print-pretty* does help
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<ogamita>
Selwyn: note however that: (print-conses '(a #(b (c d e) f) g)) #| (a . (#(b (c d e) f) . (g . ()))) --> (a #(b (c d e) f) g) |# ie. it doesn't enter into vectors and other structures.
<pfdietz>
xsperry: in that thing from yesterday, you could also imagine f and g (and (c f g)) return the value returned by the argument thunk when it is called.
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<Selwyn>
ogamita: thanks for the link. sbcl in particular relies on some structures to implement unquoting
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<anamorphic_>
Hi, I have a bunch of lisp files and I want to create a static cross reference for them (perhaps building something like LXR) - is xref.lisp from the AI repo my best bet as a starting point?
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<pjb>
anamorphic_: yes. Also, it has been included in slime/swank, so perhaps it's modernized in there?
<anamorphic_>
Oh did not know! Will check that out thanks
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