mnemoc changed the topic of #linux-sunxi to: Allwinner/sunxi development discussion - did you try looking at our wiki? https://linux-sunxi.org - Don't ask to ask. Just ask and wait! - https://github.com/linux-sunxi/ - Logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/linux-sunxi
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<libv> aseigo still wants to try again :(
<ssvb> libv: does he?
<Turl> libv: is he like rich or something? :p
<wens> aseigo?
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<libv> one of the comments at the bottom
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<Turl> wens: the other guy that worked with luke for vivaldi
<ssvb> libv: he is surely free to do whatever he wants
<ssvb> moreover, their plasma desktop is one of the potential 3d graphics driver users
<libv> he's not exactly helping plasma with this strategy
<ssvb> but surely, the way how he sees himself as a kind of the only hope for the "open hardware" is a bit amusing :)
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<libv> especially given the fact that we make it easy for a lot of people to turn a bog standard chinese mess into a mostly free device
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<libv> also, it is not plasma that will make the difference there
<Turl> he could just as well pull a zatab and pay extra for the design to be released
<libv> it is hw support
<Turl> surely some factory is going to be extremely happy to do so
<libv> improv was not oshw
<libv> anyway, i mailed him to tell him to give up, and instead work on making plasma easy to install on existing hw with the help of linux-$soc communities, and to make noise about how easy that is
<Turl> iirc improv was "going to be" oshw once they got the investment back from sales
<Turl> aka "later"
<libv> he should be focussing on making plasma something people want to replace their androids with
<libv> anything else will fail
<Turl> I'd very much like to see gnome rather than kde
<Turl> but oh well :)
<ssvb> Turl: there is also enlightenment :)
<ssvb> and it is also interesting how the enlightenment people happily embrace wayland
<wens> ssvb: i'm slightly concerned about the sun4/5/7i unification stuff
<ssvb> wens: why?
<wens> sun4/7i might be better
<wens> sun5i would use a different console (uart1) iirc
<wens> meaning you probably can't use the same binary?
<Turl> ssvb: I never used it much to comment
<Turl> but I dislike most kde apps
<libv> Turl: that's not a discussion we should be having
<libv> we have our work cut out in other places
<Turl> libv: sure, I was just saying :)
<Turl> they're totally valid alternatives if you like them
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<ssvb> Turl: I mean, because the traditional linux desktop has decided to kind of self-destruct, it is now a good chance for enlightenment to increase their user base :)
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<Turl> ssvb: I think you typoed evolve :p anyway
<Turl> ssvb: there's still mate if you like it old-school
<ssvb> Turl: people have their habits and normally don't like to change them, so a big shakeup like a transition to wayland gives a chance to the underdogs
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* Turl should get back to patches :)
<ssvb> Turl: yeah, there are still plenty of alternatives, which will gradually get more broken as the underlying graphics stack changes
<Turl> wens: I found a couple of warnings on your code
<ssvb> wens: about the sun4i/sun5i/sun7i unification, it is mostly about a very basic mmc support
<ssvb> wens: the ones who can use the serial console, also can usually compile u-boot themselves and pick the right config
<Turl> ssvb: heh, talking about EFL.. https://github.com/linux-sunxi/sunxi-mali/pull/8
<Turl> libv: ^
<libv> yeah, i got the email
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<libv> it's been in the top 10 of my inbox for a few months now
<libv> together with some other big todo things
<wens> Turl: huh?
<Turl> libv: you should tackle many small TODOs like this, it feels good :)
<wens> Turl: which one?
<Turl> wens: nothing serious, just missing statics and __iomems on your clk patches
<Turl> I'll send a patch in a bit and cc you
<wens> ah, thanks :)
<Turl> wens: you should build with C=2 more often :)
<Turl> I fixed my fair share of them as well :p
<wens> hmm, rc7, means i get to do another version of the rtc patches
<Turl> wens: linus said it'd probably be the last rc though
<ssvb> wens: the u-boot unification would be mostly useful for creating a single universal sd card image
<ssvb> wens: which could boot on any device and provide the user with a hdmi console with a menu for selecting the right dtb/fex
<wens> ssvb: sounds like an installation system :)
<wens> in that case, i have no objections
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<Gerwin_J> have someone hear about marsboard?
<libv> how shortlived will this one be?
<Gerwin_J> 45 euro
<Gerwin_J> 60 dollar
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<Gerwin_J> i never had hear about this board
<libv> the front page has no real mention of the allwinner based socs anymore
<libv> so "shortlived" in the wiki device page is pretty fitting
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<Turl> libv: have you heard of the 2048 game?
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<arokux> wens: Turl v4 sent on Sunday
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<fossxplorer> Hello folks
<fossxplorer> what's a good ARM device to run simple Linux tasks with nowadays?
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<ccaione> you are in #linux-sunxi soooooooo ....
<plaes> :D
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<fossxplorer> Do you only support Allwinner SoCs?
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<ccaione> the topic says so
<libv> Turl: why?
<libv> fossxplorer: check our wiki.
<fossxplorer> Cool thx.
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<libv> pfff, aseigo really wants to go again :(
<ccaione> replied to your email?
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<libv> yeah
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<wens> and that is bad?
<Flashtek> aside from the cubietruck, are you aware of another board that has onboard WiFi and Bluetooth, ideally with an external aerial connector?
<libv> wens: how easy is it to install a linux on a10/a13/a20 devices?
<libv> we would say: it's very easy
<libv> how easy is it to get a tablet optimized installation on a sunxi device?
<libv> the answer is, no-one really does it
<libv> one would think that, with free software tablets being generally available (they just need to get reinstalled), why try to sell a free software tablet without android to the supposed waiting masses, when at most you will be selling to the choir
<libv> why is this effort not spent showing people how easy it is to get plasma active on their existing tablets?
<libv> surely that is the better long term strategy
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<libv> we've had spark, then vivaldi (even though to aseigo they were one and the same, i have the same hw that the spark was supposed to be, as that was my first mali-400 device), which never materialized
<libv> then improv, which offered nothing more than what cubieboard was offering
<libv> sure, the module, but that isn't a feature if only a mother-device is out there
<libv> and there was pengpod in between which made a lot of waves but in essence was just someone trying to make a quick buck off of sunxi and cheap chinese hw
<libv> each time, peoples confidence shrinks
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<libv> and to some extent, these failures reflect back on us
<libv> so why not spend time on making more people install a tablet oriented system on their tablets, instead of selling them specialized tablets? it seems like there is a lot more to gain there
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<libv> but that gain would of course not be for a single business, it doesn't hold the promise of a new empire
<ssvb> libv: is he still going to keep using the allwinner soc in his next attempt?
<libv> who knows
<ssvb> libv: probably he understands that he can't make money just on the free software, so selling the hardware is a way to make business
<libv> ssvb: but only if you actually manage to sell the hw
<libv> and that's just no longer realistic
<ssvb> perhaps he could sell mugs and t-shirts, this worked for the raspberry pi :)
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<libv> no-one will buy a rebadged chinese device anymore, i am amazed that it actually somewhat worked for pengpod the first time round
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<libv> if there truly was a market for that sort of thing, then pengpod would've been succesfull the second time round as well
<libv> the first time he got lucky to find the 1000 or so idiots to buy into it
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<libv> but no, i doubt that sunxi will be used again, alternatives are there as well
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<dack> Flashtek: The MK808C has internal wifi and bluetooth. There are drivers for it, but I've had issues with them. No external antenna.
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<faddat> Hi so who in here is in China, or better still, Chinese? I've lived in China for 2 years (teaching US History) and recently (3 weeks ago) moved to Shenzhen to create an edtech company. Basically, I want to know if anyone can explain to me the logic behind "sell you access to our kernel drivers"
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<faddat> I've seen it in so many hardware firms now, just.... baffling. Even ones who seem to get the advantages of openness.
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<libv> they cannot sell you access.
<libv> they can charge for making it physically available
<libv> but that's not really of this time
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<libv> and that part of the gpl really should get updated
<libv> we have the interweb now
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<faddat> indeed love that interweb :)
<faddat> So-- they think they're complying with GPL when saying that?
<libv> yes, and in some interpretations of the gpl, they might be right
<faddat> I'm just trying to understand-- Shenzhen is an amazing geek paradise. That tablet you were talking about.... I'm trying to build it actually.
<faddat> In fact
<faddat> since I just read your IRC log, seems some folks show up here without introducing themselves or what they're trying to do.
<faddat> I'm Jake & I'm trying to create a line of open hardware / open software tech products of every stripe.
<faddat> qq 2335147784
<faddat> libv: thanks!
<faddat> I did tech integrated classes, and I realized that all of the tools that could be used for teaching were fundamentally broken because they couldn't be properly fiddled/tinkered with.
<faddat> The concept of the classes was to teach History as an information problem and along the way give students a much better than average understanding of how tech worked & why it's transforming the world.
<faddat> I picked up two dev boards today from Merrii. Haven't begun the toying yet, though.
<libv> faddat: work through our new device howto first and foremost
<faddat> oh!
<faddat> Where's that?
<faddat> :)
<faddat> Wiki"?
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<libv> where else?
<faddat> :)
<faddat> Before I go I'd like to share my overall vision/concept as an image.... 1 second
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<faddat> Anyway I'm making it public because I want it to happen, so if you want to grab something from it & own it, by all means, do so-- I do hope that you'll see the value in the network business model and choose to define a way to affiliate but even if you didn't, I wouldn't worry about it much because everything here is good for the world as a whole.
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<libv> hrm, i need to test this uboot stuff on a10s, but the only a10s i have is one with the bad layout for the uart pins
* libv will have some fun with that one :(
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<nove> Turl: see, in the maillist a good example of what happens when things are posted public before been ready
<nove> want to make it work, but are totally clueless of what are trying to make it work
<Turl> libv: I have an A10S olinuxino around here
<Turl> the SD card is half bad, but if you really need it I can give it a spin
<Turl> nove: the guy who is really appreciated? :)
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<nove> really, and this is what we get
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<libv> ooh, nice, worked.
<libv> Turl: thanks, but it just worked like a charm
* libv now has to go distinguish between a13 and a10s
<Turl> libv: great
<Turl> libv: I learned the other day that it's the same thing in different package :p
<libv> hrm, then the hdmi regs should respond on a13 as well
<libv> let me check that later on
<libv> hrm, that stick gets very very very hot
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<faddat> well all it is 3am, I am goign to hit the hay
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<faddat> not really sure what the article was aimed at, but I imagine you can expect me to become a pretty frequent person in here
<faddat> night/day/whatever!
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<ssvb> libv: maybe I'm late, but here is the code, which identifies the exact flavor of sun5i - http://patchwork.ozlabs.org/patch/355626/
<ssvb> libv: by checking readl(SUNXI_SID_BASE + 0x08)
<ssvb> libv: is it so that a10s has hdmi, but a13 does not?
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<libv> ssvb: yeah, it's in the repo i am working on
<libv> but i am going to test a13 now to see whether it behaves nicely even with the hdmi code
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<libv> seems ok.
<libv> but i am going to add some register dumps to it to make sure
<libv> smashing
<libv> Turl: yeah, the registers are there indeed
<libv> and i do not need to distinguish between a10s and a13 at all
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