mnemoc changed the topic of #linux-sunxi to: Allwinner/sunxi development discussion - did you try looking at our wiki? https://linux-sunxi.org - Don't ask to ask. Just ask and wait! - https://github.com/linux-sunxi/ - Logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/linux-sunxi
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<oliv3r> ssvb: ping
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<plaes> does anyone know about this: http://www.allwinnertech.com/en/clq/processorv/290.html ?
<plaes> did they rename the chips containing powervr as V*
<plaes> hmm.. nope
<plaes> they also have V15 with Mali
<jelly-home> 1MB L2 cache? nice (and probably expensive)
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<Black_Horseman> kalimera
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<plaes> arokux: are you Roman B?
<plaes> asking because of the u-boot usb patches
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<arokux> plaes: yep
<plaes> ok, copyrights only mention arokux in the files
<arokux> plaes: oops, that is bad. ok, I'll wait till they are reviewed...
<arokux> plaes: thanks
<plaes> also includes could be ordered alphabetically
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<arokux> plaes: ok
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<rellla> wiki down?
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<plaes> mhm :(
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<popolon> server down
<popolon> (or network)
<popolon> can't access on port 80 at all
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<popolon> tried from several networks
<rellla> Turl, mnemoc ^^
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<oliv3r> ssvb: are you hiding from me? :(
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<astr> were the heck can I find 40 pin 0.05inch step cheap ribbon short cables / connectors & wire? instead of £2 https://www.olimex.com/Products/Components/Cables/CABLE-40-40-10CM
<astr> I just can't find them anywere
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<sehraf> montjoie[home]: have you ever tried to use your ss driver with cryptodev?
<Montjoie> yes
<sehraf> did it work?
<Montjoie> yes
<sehraf> ok .. then i guess i did something wrong (it kills the whole system here)
<sehraf> (my setup is a bit messy though^^)
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<dack> linux-sunxi.org down?
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<libv> dack: yes, seems so
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<slapin__> hey, anybody, what is going on?
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<wens> power outage? network outage? someone forget to pay the bill?
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<dack> anyone know how long it's been down?
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<libv> at least since 12
<plaes> ~4h
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<mripard> http://hiwr.io/, built with an olinuxino
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<ssvb> oliv3r: sorry, was a bit AFK during the last few days
<ssvb> oliv3r: what did you want?
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<thecom> hi there, i've a problem with my hackberry a10 using archlinuxarm. usb does not seem to work, hubs are listed by lsusb, but no devices are recognized if plugged in.
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<Tsvetan> hi
<Tsvetan> what happens with linux-sunxi.org?
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<mripard> Tsvetan: it's down since around noon
<mripard> we don't have much more information
<mripard> Tsvetan: btw, have you seen http://hiwr.io/
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<Tsvetan> yes, someone on twitter messaged me about it one hour ago, looks like cool little project
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<Tsvetan> people do amazing stuff with all these boards
<mripard> nope
<mripard> looking at it
<mripard> wow, nice
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<mripard> ok, nice is an understatement :)
<Tsvetan> amazing :)
<Tsvetan> now we have so powerful SoC/boards that can put them in such toys and make amazing things
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<nieuwbie> hey. anybody is using gentoo?
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<Turl> server looks completely down :(
<Turl> not much I can do other than try to ping mnemoc
<ssvb> Turl: is it regularly backed up?
<Turl> I'm under the impression it is, but you'd need to ask mnemoc
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<ssvb> Turl: it would probably make sense to have backups distributed among more than one person
<Turl> ssvb: indeed
* ssvb is just being paranoid and scared of the idea that linux-sunxi.org might be not coming back
<lukas2511> are there any backups? :D
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<Turl> hetzner was having outgoing DDOS problems hm.. maybe related
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<gzamboni> ssvb i do a rsync of the files every day but i dont backup the database
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<dack> anyone online have a CS918S?
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<libv> dack: when our wiki is back up, please work the CS918S page
<dack> libv: work? I don't have one, but was thinking about getting one. Just wondering what they were like. I looked at the cached copy of the wiki page and saw there wasn't much there.
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<libv> dack: it's a31s so we have little actual support for it
<libv> you're pretty much in chartered territory, and it would be nice if someone would go and properly works this SoC
<libv> jsmirl seems only interested in throwing tons of questions to our ml
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<Zboonet> Hi there
<Zboonet> I want to build an image for the A20-OLinuXino, can I use the HEAD revision or do I have to roll back in previous commit (git reset --hard) for building the u-boot and kernel ?
<libv> this sunxi server being unavailable is becoming old :(
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<oliv3r> ssvb: where are you! :(
<oliv3r> libv: looks like all of mnemocs virtual machines went down
<ssvb> oliv3r: I'm here, and I pinged you several hours ago
<oliv3r> ssvb: i have many exciting and terrifying news things for you :p
<oliv3r> you got a few minutes?
<ssvb> yes, sure
<oliv3r> ok i did a few days worth of temperature measuring :)
<oliv3r> (all on a lime-4g)
<oliv3r> i used a thermal camera, and today I started to use a thermocouple
<oliv3r> while the camera is really good, i'm not sure how accurate the measured temperature is
<oliv3r> so for one, with an ambient temperature of 23C, humidity of 65%, the internal temperature sensor measured 104.5C, the IR camera 90.0C and the thermocouple 79.0C
<oliv3r> now this was on a lime that performed really really well, the IR camera was able to go upto 115C before the board finally crash the other day with an ambient temp of 30C
<oliv3r> now, the biggest problem i have found so far, when we had a 30C ambient temp, none of the lime's would burn for longer then 15 minutes
<oliv3r> all would overheat
<oliv3r> i got a small 19mmx19mmx12mm heatsink with thermal tape on one, but that doesn't seem to help a whole lot
<oliv3r> it does help, on a nother one, i glued a 22mmx22mmx22mm heatsink with thermal glue, which seemed to work quite well, but i haven't tested that one yet
<oliv3r> so 1) the datasheet doesn't mention the junction to case temperature values or anything
<oliv3r> 2) can your lime run at full burn for prolonged time (and what temperature do you get?)
<oliv3r> 3) a20 seems to run 30% less hot (30% lower power requirement) but has a maximum of only 70C vs 85C of the a10 (according to the datasheet)
<ssvb> oliv3r: hmm, both of your heatsinks seem to be bigger that the one I tried on my new ifc6410 :) https://plus.google.com/u/0/+SiarheiSiamashka/posts/UBwnupwQJfT
<oliv3r> i did verify the thermocouple against a PT100 in boiling water and the thermocouple was spot on
<ssvb> the whole idea is that the cpu clock speed should be throttled after reaching dangerous temperature
<oliv3r> thinkpad <3
<oliv3r> 4) I did a whole lot of meauring (and will do more on a different board with the thermocouple this time) to get the temperature / die-diode profile
<oliv3r> but I would have expected that since absolutly noone uses a heatsink (tablets etc) and the olimex even goes into a claustrophobic case
<oliv3r> the a10 wouldn't ever get that hot
<oliv3r> i don't have an image of the used heatsink :S
<ssvb> basically, we need to 1) calibrate the temperature sensor, so that it reports reasonable results 2) implement emergency throttling, based on periodic monitoring of the temperature
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<ssvb> if you want a reliable system here and now, you may consider downclocking your devices
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<ssvb> oliv3r: absolutely noone uses a heatsink just because they don't care
<oliv3r> that's the one i tried
<ssvb> we had wrong voltages for cubieboards for a long time and nobody really cared :)
<oliv3r> anyway, with ambient temperature of over 25 or so C, many boards cannot do the burn torture
<ssvb> we have crazy overclockers, who still try to overclock their systems despite all the warnings - http://www.cubieforums.com/index.php/topic,2590.0.html
<ssvb> everyone learns his lesson the hard way :)
<oliv3r> heh
<oliv3r> i guess assumption is the mother
<ssvb> oliv3r: anyway, reducing the clock speed should reduce the peak power consumption a lot
<ssvb> you try to find the sweet spot with the best performance/watt
<ssvb> *you can
<oliv3r> depends on ambient temperature
<oliv3r> so temperature throtteling will be required
<ssvb> and olimex actually offers a heatsink as an option - https://www.olimex.com/Products/Components/Misc/ALUMINIUM-HEATSINK-20x20x6MM/
<oliv3r> that one is useless
<oliv3r> way way to small
<oliv3r> the one i linked should hae 4x + the surface area
<ssvb> does Tsvetan know about this? :)
<oliv3r> i messaged him about it allready
<ssvb> ok
<oliv3r> but no response yet :p
<oliv3r> now, all this said, this is all of course with lima-textued-cube + cpuburn
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<oliv3r> 'normal' usage using 99% cpu time, caused a temperature rise to 50C
<oliv3r> so cpuburn does really burn maximally :p
<ssvb> yeah, it's one of the artificial worst cases
<oliv3r> yeah but it's something we have to concider
<oliv3r> our stuff will be sold in australia for example
<oliv3r> where ambient temperature may be 40C
<oliv3r> when the ambient temperature was 30C, i had to clock down to 768 MHz to remain stable
<ssvb> how much MHz do you really need for your use cases?
<oliv3r> 2000
<oliv3r> ideally more
<oliv3r> :)
<ssvb> lol
<oliv3r> well we will do slicing on the board
<oliv3r> our current default test takes 3seconds on my laptop, and 35 seconds on the lime
<oliv3r> so faster is better :)
<ssvb> I see
<oliv3r> but it's not a hard requirement
<oliv3r> but when we have to downclock to 700 MHz, comparing it to the pi is hard :)
<oliv3r> it's a harder sell to managmenet
<libv> oliv3r: what is slicing?
<oliv3r> (i have no clue how well the pi holds up with cpuburn
<ssvb> has anybody tried to optimize the software? maybe profiling can show some obvious low hanging fruits?
<ssvb> oliv3r: cpuburn uses neon, it will not run on the pi :)
<oliv3r> libv: when you take a 3D object, you 'slice' it into 2d layers and then generate a path for the printhead to follow
<libv> oliv3r: ok, as i thought
<oliv3r> ssvb: there are many lo hanging fruits
<libv> oliv3r: sure the gpu can be used for that?
<oliv3r> libv: when lima is stable, maybe :)
<oliv3r> it's highly paralizeable
<oliv3r> and there are some 64bit multiplications that could be offloaded
<oliv3r> i think strongly about using a lime-a20
<oliv3r> instead of the a10
<oliv3r> the a10 isn't any faster compared to the a20 (the slicing is single threaded atm too)
<oliv3r> ssvb: well nobody tried anything close to cpuburn yet on the pi? i can't imagine it running happily under heavy load
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<ssvb> oliv3r: cpuburn needs an arm11 version :)
<ssvb> oliv3r: because it is different for every microarchitecture (Cortex-A8, Cortex-A7 and Cortex-A9 all need different cpuburns)
<oliv3r> ssvb: so no pi version yet :p
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<oliv3r> ssvb: anyway, i want to calibrate the internal temperature sensor
<oliv3r> because i don't want to have a device out in the field that isn't reliable, and i don't wanna use a fan
<oliv3r> ssvb: so what do you recommend is the best way to get thermal profiles?
<oliv3r> do you think a top-case temperature of 80C sounds accurate?
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<libv> i think it might just be done using clipplanes
<oliv3r> oh interesting
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<oliv3r> yeah taht's absolutly something we could use when we start optimizing our engine
<oliv3r> i think we will look at optimizing in about 6-12 months when the current version is deployed out in the field
<oliv3r> libv: but we will not ship mali stuff, so we'd rely on lima
<oliv3r> but wow, that stuff is REALLY fast
<oliv3r> our slicer is far from that :(
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<libv> slicing smells like a very straightforward gpu job
<oliv3r> libv: yeah absolutly
<oliv3r> our engine does a few more things of course, optimize the path, smooth lines etc etc, but the core is absolutly something we'd want to offload to the GPU
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<oliv3r> ssvb: so any idea?
<RzR> Is there a backup entry point for http://linux-sunxi.org/ ?
<ssvb> oliv3r: about the thermal profiles? no idea
<oliv3r> ssvb: crap :p
<oliv3r> ssvb: thermocouple reads to low, IR camera to high
<oliv3r> i guess i just make some tables with ata from both
<oliv3r> and see where it takes me
<ssvb> oliv3r: we don't really need super high accuracy
<oliv3r> well there's a temperature difference of +10 C
<ssvb> oliv3r: also one more option is just to ask mripard to contact allwinner and ask about the temperature sensor calibration coefficients :)
<oliv3r> i doubt we'll get those
<ssvb> why not?
<oliv3r> we still don't have boot0 code for a23, libnand blobs etc
<oliv3r> no cedarX sources :p
<oliv3r> (i contacted eva about all those recently)
<ssvb> that's just two numbers for each soc
<oliv3r> true
<oliv3r> mripard: ^ :)
<oliv3r> the thing I worry about a little though is, that they technically never really used the temperature sensor
<oliv3r> so they may simply not know
<oliv3r> they commented and removed all code from the later sources
<ssvb> it may be also inherently inaccurate
<ssvb> have you tried to compare the temperature readings from different devices? do they match?
<oliv3r> reasonably
<ssvb> but we don't really care, I would assume that 10 degrees error is ok
<oliv3r> i'll do a few runs on a few boards
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<oliv3r> i do have a nice table on 1 board, if you care for it :)
<ssvb> if we arbitrarily set the throttling threshold around, let's say 80C, that would be probably ok for all devices
<oliv3r> fair nuff
<ssvb> going higher than 100C is probably bad
<RzR> i think 90C is the destructive limit
<ssvb> RzR: I think 125C is a common junction temperature limit
<ssvb> RzR: the passively cooled video cards usually have the temperature limits above 100C
<RzR> Most silicon power devices are rated to maximum junction temperature of 150 C. says http://www.researchgate.net/post/What_is_the_true_temperature_limit_of_silicon_power_semiconductor_devices
<oliv3r> the datasheet says that the maximum operating temperature is 85C
<oliv3r> i think the big difference is where the pll/clock is being generated
<oliv3r> the high temperatures cause the clocks to start being off
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<oliv3r> as simple transistors have junction temperatures of 150C
<ssvb> oliv3r: that's the Ta (ambient) temperature listed in the datasheet
<ssvb> oliv3r: (the temperature of the environment around the board?), and the junction temperature limit should be much higher than that
<ssvb> oliv3r: but that's something that mripard could ask too :)
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<ssvb> oliv3r: and the storage temperature is 125C, I wonder if it is telling us anything :)
<oliv3r> a ambient temperature sounds very unlikly though
<oliv3r> as soon as I get near 85C operating temperature, i start getting crashes
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<oliv3r> i bet that's chinglish for max operating temp :p
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<ssvb> oliv3r: at 1GHz we don't really have much overclocking headroom, and the increased temperature could move this limit
<ssvb> oliv3r: if you don't mind destroying one device for the sake of science, you could try to increase the core voltage and check if the crashes at 85C disappear
<oliv3r> i can do that :p
<oliv3r> fex file + uboot changes right?
<oliv3r> we can't do it dynamically
<ssvb> not on a10
<oliv3r> change to 1.5V?
<ssvb> for a10 you need to patch the cpufreq table in the kernel sources
<oliv3r> i got a testboard that has a small heatsink, so the 1.5V may hurt less
<oliv3r> but it won't run stable at 1GHz either, 960Mhz (i'll know tomorrow, it should be still running)
<oliv3r> ok i can do that, easy peasy
<oliv3r> i'll try to remember tomorrow ):
<ssvb> check the irc logs :)
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<ssvb> unlike linux-sunxi.org they are still accessible :)
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<oliv3r> :p
<oliv3r> yeah but if i get too busy, i may forget :)
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<oliv3r> sleep time now :)
<oliv3r> nn ;)
<oliv3r> got some charts done looks interesting
<oliv3r> i don't get why the delta between sensor and case differge when the freq. rises though
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<inn> hi, the linux-sunxi.org is down. why?
<RzR> inn, too many hits :)
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<Black_Horseman> kalimera
<inn> do you know when the wiki will be accessible?
<inn> RzR,do you know when the wiki will be accessible?
<RzR> no idea i was yesterday
<RzR> it was
<inn> thanks.
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<maksimlin> for anyone desperate like me to quickly look up something from the wiki, most of its page seem to be have been crawled by the web archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20140702193635/http://linux-sunxi.org/
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<libv> maksimlin: cool, thanks, google cache also has most
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<maksimlin> libv: np - hoping it comes back soon - its such a treasure trove of useful info
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<maksimlin> libv: btw I dont know how runs the wiki - but I'd be happy to put my hand up to host a mirror once the site is back