<ganbold_>
iirc, benn said to give some samples to developers
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<libv>
i was just wondering how much they are charging for it
<ganbold_>
is that changed?
<Gerwin_J>
325 dollar
<libv>
haha
<ganbold_>
too much
<libv>
who wants to buy allwinner based crap for that amount?
<libv>
did they learn nothing from a31?
<Gerwin_J>
a31 dev kit was 1600 dollar
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<libv>
then they'll have better luck with a200
<libv>
or whatever crazy number they come up next
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<libv>
nobody is going to buy a80
<libv>
cubie8 is going to be like 150 iirc
<libv>
which is still too high for allwinner based hw
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<Gerwin_J>
pcduino will sell for 99 dollars
<Gerwin_J>
but there are slow...
<libv>
that's getting there
<libv>
the odroid u3 has a chance, at iirc 165, as it is exynos based
<libv>
but allwinner, that stuff better stay below 100 or nobody buys it all
<Gerwin_J>
and Eva also told me there are pushing cubietech
<specing>
eh, I browsed to pcduino thinking that finaly someone made an affordable x86 computer with a non-ATX power supply.
<libv>
especially since we are constantly harking about the GPL violations
<Gerwin_J>
to release cubieboard 8 next month
<specing>
Gerwin_J: just buy a PC engines APU board
<specing>
Gerwin_J: it comes with open bios and schematics and stuff and a dual core AMD
<Gerwin_J>
okay but i have all ready order one a80 board
<Gerwin_J>
so i will wait for that
<specing>
cancel it
<specing>
you only get headaches with ARM stuff anyway
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<libv>
:)
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<specing>
libv: I assume the mali driver is still not finished, right?
<specing>
Also fuck intel for putting PowerVR in its embedded atoms
<libv>
intel has been doing that since the first atom
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<libv>
they tried getting away several times
<libv>
but they always went back
<libv>
seems like their own in house graphics are having a tough time matching powervr in performance/watt
<specing>
yep
<wens>
i suppose that can't use a mali?
<wens>
or the others
<specing>
I was finaly looking forward to buying a proper phone
<specing>
no such luck.
<libv>
intel, using an arm chip for graphics?
<libv>
when they have their in house graphics silicon?
<libv>
that'll be a cold day in hell
<wens>
vivante then?
<specing>
that reminds me that I still need to buy a mobile but everything is either ARM crap or Intel with PowerVR...
<libv>
wens: vivante somewhat lost it, it seems
<wens>
i see
<libv>
freescale imx6 is the only one that remains
<libv>
or the only one that is making any headlines
<libv>
they seem to be out of the race with respect to mali and powervr
<libv>
freescale should go buy them out when their customer base and revenue reaches a new low
<mripard_>
specing: there's a few iirc
<mripard_>
Intel's baytrail are using intel's GPU
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<libv>
i also have a 2010 eeepc which has an intel gpued atom
<specing>
mripard_: any phones with it?
<specing>
... that aren't locked to windows (come with android or ...)
<mripard_>
specing: I don't think there's phone with it, but some tablets running android definitely
<mripard_>
But I'm not really an expert in that area :)
<libv>
the last one with proper overlays, before the display engine designers gave in to the "we can do it all on the 3d engine" stupidity
<libv>
which then posed a few problems when android started to cleverly use those in hwcomposer ;)
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<libv>
who did the cedarx investigation (not REing), oliv3r?
<libv>
what were the gpl issues with that again?
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<libv>
ok, now i stuck some blurps about no sunxi community participation and gpl violations in our main page, and on the allwinner page. An initial skeleton for a gpl violations page is available as well
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<oliv3r>
libv: me and wingrime
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<oliv3r>
libv: they use a lot of code, including the stock jpeg library for linux in their cedarX lib, and even though libjpeg is very lenient, they do require a README to be passed long I belive, but even that they fail on. Further more code is being violated from the ffmpeg project. There may be others, but a lot of it is reference implementations from the interwebs. It should be on the sunxi history, I don't know what happened to the content though
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<rds>
what is the strategy of AW with A80 ( very expensive ), and even before it hits the streets, they already talking about a 64 bit processor ?
<rds>
do they want to kill sells of the A80 ?
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<rds>
it is amazing, but I have to agree with LIBV. Any AW hardware above $100 is not going to fly. They better drop to something more inline with the market, or $49.
<rm>
I bet they won't stop making the A20
<rm>
at least not yet
<rm>
and A20 is more than enough for many/most uses
<rds>
yes, the A20 is a good SOC, if AW was a bit smarter, and would release *ALL* documentation for it
<rds>
as well as helping financially some developers of this community.
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<nove>
libv, that libisp does not have anything to do with video encoding and decoding, in cedar hardware there is a subengine called isp, but this is unrelated
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<libv>
hramrach: ? you unplugged a microsoft keyboard?
<libv>
why is this special?
<hramrach>
kinda pun on those people saying that their box is Microsoft-free
<hramrach>
only Microsoft thing I have is probably this keyboard
<libv>
hramrach: is being against microsoft still something people actively spend their time on?
<Wizzup>
It's a nice bonus
<hramrach>
dunno
<libv>
5 years ago, i could see why, but now we are in the world of android
<libv>
microsoft is seriously struggling
<libv>
i can understand being against google more these days
<hramrach>
it had too small esc key and was needlessly large so ther it goes
<Wizzup>
why not both? :)
<hramrach>
MS might be struggling but they still might manage to do a lot of damage with that Office 365
<libv>
ibm used to be really hated
<hramrach>
they supplied the machines Wehrmacht used for certain sorting purposes I heard ;-)
<libv>
that was more than 70 years ago
<hramrach>
people kinda did not fully get over that thing yet
<libv>
nono, people disliked ibm as little as 25 years ago
<hramrach>
any huge company deserves being disliked
<libv>
but only some are relevant for this channel.
<libv>
and i think we're way past with microsoft
<hramrach>
ibm is not exactly relevant
<libv>
if anything, we should dislike google, arm, allwinner, linaro, in that order
<Wizzup>
It isn't?
<Wizzup>
libv: do you prefer intel to arm?
<hramrach>
hmm, microsoft is still trying to enter the tablet market
<libv>
Wizzup: as an open source graphics driver developer?
<Wizzup>
and in general, I guess ;-)
<libv>
Wizzup: or as an open source graphics developer, who was naysaid, was consistently refused a job at intel for being proven right nonetheless, and who pioneered a lot of things most intel developers work on today?
<hramrach>
they work on it at least
<hramrach>
when it comes to graphics drivers Intel is at least trying
<libv>
i cannot dislike intel as a whole, i cannot dislike OsTC, as they are developing the free-est driver, and they are continuing the documentation tradition we started with RadeonHD, but which ATI successfully shot down
<libv>
but i can dislike a few people at intel :p
<libv>
for being consistently wrong, and for not being able to admit it, even though they have been actively proving it.
<libv>
plus, intel is struggling
<libv>
they have a very valid competitor in arm
<libv>
and they are having difficulties staving it off
<hramrach>
Intel even came up with a few innovations i~n the Xorg/Linux stack
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<libv>
hramrach: such as?
<oliv3r>
let me backread
<hramrach>
new acceleration schemes
<libv>
hramrach: every week a new one.
<libv>
hramrach: todays flavour, glamor
<libv>
none of them able to beat XAA
<hramrach>
and unlike ATI they make use of the fact that their graphics uses the same RAM as the system
<libv>
well, until eric anholt removed one of the biggest shortcuts XAA made
<libv>
officially to clean up the interface, but it suddenly made EXA/UXA competitive
<libv>
by making XAA slower
<oliv3r>
libv: we had proof o tje wiki
<libv>
hramrach: which company was the first to do that?
<oliv3r>
would need tp dig thrpugh thehistory
<libv>
hramrach: let me give you a hint, it was the same company that printed the name of a small blue pill that makes things big, on its first generation of chipsets
<libv>
this a few months after the small blue pill hit the market
<libv>
i am still looking for one of those boards, for my vast collection of hardware from that company
<hramrach>
dunno what you refer to
<libv>
viagra
<Wizzup>
(via)
<hramrach>
if you want to dig in the past
<libv>
ah, it seems via and intel did the same thing at the same time
<libv>
anyway, not an innovation of the intel ostc graphics team.
<hramrach>
ZX spectrum had a part of memory that was read by a dedicated unit and turned into TV signal. And you could write anything there and it was instantly displayed .. the next time the unit read that scanline
<libv>
anyway, there isn't much reason to hate intel these days
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<Wizzup>
except for eating my batteries
<Wizzup>
;-)
<libv>
i have my own reasons, but that started just short of a decade ago
<libv>
and involves some current intel employees
* Wizzup
read the blog post
<libv>
:)
<Turl>
hramrach: MS hardware is good :p
<libv>
everyone should actually hate those guys, as they delayed proper modesetting for 7-8 years, but you cannot hold this massive company responsible for that
<libv>
dislike google for being a molloch that is trying to control and learn about everything in our lives
<libv>
dislike it for how horrible android is, and how it gave us what we wanted (linux everywhere) without getting what we really wanted (useful linux everywhere)
<libv>
dislike arm for being stupid about the mali
<oliv3r>
ms doest make hw, they buy it and put a sticker o it
<Wizzup>
like rob and others for making awesome drivers :-)
<linkmauve1>
libv, how separate is ARM MPD from ARM?
<oliv3r>
i try to vote with my wallet tbough :p
<libv>
dislike allwinner for being a stupid chinese company that still fails to understand open source, licenses and what markets to play in
<Turl>
oliv3r: they know where to buy it then :p
<libv>
dislike linaro for giving companies like allwinner an excuse
<libv>
linkmauve1: in my view, not very much
<libv>
linkmauve1: but it sounds very plausible that the rest of arm does not like coughing up for MPD projects
<linkmauve1>
Ok.
<libv>
but then, departments always fight eachother in every company
<oliv3r>
Turl: some one at packt wted to merge chapters 2 and 3
<libv>
linkmauve1: if the rest of ARM wants an open source mali driver, MPD would've had to give in
<oliv3r>
also 4 a d 7
<oliv3r>
sheeple have no clue what they want or need. they just want a new toy
<oliv3r>
it just has to work, no matter how.
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<Turl>
oliv3r: more work for you? :p
<hramrach>
problem with intel is if they succeed in making good tablet grade CPU the wintel lockin can continue
<Turl>
oliv3r: the book is going out by the time A80 is obsolete :p
<hramrach>
because right now many government agencies get away with making mandatory software Windows only. Because every serious computer user has a PC and that always runs windows, right?
<Turl>
hramrach: s/serious/"serious"/
<Turl>
OT: what's a "faculty advisor"?
<libv>
hramrach: the market is currently owned by arm chips, by a lot of vendors who are used to mix/match bits from ip vendors like arm
<hramrach>
oh, and they are always administrators able to install run any crap they can come with like unsigned ActiveX components
<libv>
hramrach: i think intel is working with rockchip now on an intel based SoC
<libv>
even if intel wins some designs
<libv>
it is only an SoC vendor itself now, and is only just trying to become an ip as well
<libv>
plus, ms lockin?
<libv>
what ms lockin?
<libv>
that's only on the desktop
<libv>
on tablets its all android
<hramrach>
for now
<Turl>
libv: if surface sticks..
<Turl>
it may not be so for much on corporate
<libv>
ms is actually quite well known for only really working on snapdragon in mobile
<hramrach>
or some Intel based tablets that can run Win7 apps 'seamlessly'
<libv>
so there is no lockin
<Turl>
libv: there's x86 surfaces
<libv>
hramrach: who still has win7 apps?
<Turl>
"pro" I think
<libv>
hramrach: pc users
<libv>
not tablet users
<libv>
why is ms doing office 365 dythink?
<libv>
there is no intel ms lockin anymore
<libv>
that's the pc world.
<libv>
we have moved on.
<libv>
linux rules
<hramrach>
we might have
<libv>
just not in a way that is useful for anyone else but the unknowing android user
<hramrach>
but many of the sheeple haven't
<libv>
and there's tons of gpl violations out there
<Turl>
libv: let's hope steamOS changes that :p
<libv>
Turl: how?
<libv>
Turl: steamos is trying to compete with ps4 and xbox1
<hramrach>
and they might actually embrace a platform that allows them to continue to live in the safe locked-in world they know
<libv>
not with the normal pc
<libv>
it's a game platform
<Turl>
libv: decent gfx drivers from manufs
<libv>
it won't
<libv>
nvidia and ati use their proprietary drivers for any serious user
<libv>
nvidia because its the only thing it does (for this area), and it does it well
<Turl>
last I heard ati's prop stuff was crap compared to the win one
<libv>
ati because it neutered our open source initiative, and now have two broken drivers
<libv>
valve is working with the intel open source guys though
<libv>
so there is a future there
<Turl>
I reap those benefits :)
<libv>
but to my knowledge they are not even talkign to the ati figleaf driver guys
<Turl>
valve games run well on intel hw
<libv>
so steamos does nothing but continue the x86 status quo
<Turl>
well, except these last months, there's something hosed on xf86-video-intel causing gpu hangs
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<popolon>
Tom Cubie worked at Allwinner in the past and now do allwinner and rockchip boards (Radxa), why do you say it sold it soul to Allwinner ?
<Turl>
popolon: cubie(tech), not tom
<popolon>
tom cubie is the cubietech boss, isn't it ?
<popolon>
s/it/he/
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<Turl>
popolon: no, he left quite a bit ago to found radxa
<Turl>
you just said it yourself even...
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<popolon>
didn't know he left one to make the other, I thought he maintened both projects
<oliv3r>
Turl: lol yeah :(
<oliv3r>
Turl: but atleast i have nothing on my workque atm, packt has to finish up a few things on their end; then they'll get back to me
<oliv3r>
in the coroporate world, MS is still king
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<oliv3r>
sheeple still work with desktops, laptops, and x86 'pro' tablets now using win8.1
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<oliv3r>
corporations, finance departments, administrative departments, all need their excel, their word, their active directory. At home, android may rule on the phone and the tablet, even the TV, but the behemoth hasn't fallen just yet
<oliv3r>
benn is also leaving cubietech to start a new company
<oliv3r>
so what hope is left for Cubietech and the community?
<oliv3r>
libv: you actually deleted some of the RE stuff :)
<paulk-collins>
but it needs a media player, right?
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<oliv3r>
there's mplayer, mpv and mplayer2
<oliv3r>
i think fedora has 1 of those
<oliv3r>
unfortunatly yeah
<oliv3r>
anything that supports libvdpau
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<paulk-collins>
there is parole on xfce, but I have no idea what it uses
<paulk-collins>
probably gstreamer
<ikeeki>
oliv3r, paulk-collins: not anything that supports vdpau
<paulk-collins>
ikeeki, any chance it would work with gstreamer?
<oliv3r>
ikeeki: how not so
<ikeeki>
for example, I've observed that last version of mpv has bugs in approximately the down third of the screen
<ikeeki>
well, last 2 or three versions
<oliv3r>
ikeeki: so there's a bug in mpv, not libvdpau that's not being supported :)
<ikeeki>
and mplayer2 (not mplayer) is worst that mpv in the sense that it getting more and more difficult to to make vdpau work with it + smplayer frontend
<ikeeki>
of course, but a bug
<ikeeki>
I mean
<ikeeki>
I'm not saying that vdpau for allwinner does not rock
<linkmauve1>
ikeeki, are those bugs reported to mpv and mplayer2?
<ikeeki>
but it is useless if you do not choose a correct version of mpv/mplayer
<ikeeki>
using mpv your are less likely to have problems using for example, smtube
<ikeeki>
yes, at least for mpv
<ikeeki>
on the other hand, you'll have to meet a bunch of depencies like libavcodec (54 I think) and other that has to be with jessie repos
<ikeeki>
that have to be, sorry for the english
<ikeeki>
so be ready to fight them
<ikeeki>
In fact, when "building" my distro aruntu, I try to use as less as possible those repos, but eventually, youll may need some of those libs
<ikeeki>
so, some hints:
<ikeeki>
A mpv better than mplayer
<ikeeki>
B mplayer does not work, it is the newer mplayer2
<nove>
paulk-collins: that vdpau is a "fake" one, in the sense that it isn't bond to a gpu, so this means that some of the vdpau api aren't implemented
<paulk-collins>
nove, okay, I see
<ikeeki>
C you can use mpv cli, but it could give you probs, as it depends on the external subtitles activation
<ikeeki>
D smtube works fine with mpv, in fact it is stable
<ikeeki>
E you can use a 1080p video output desktop, and mkv playing, but it has to be a light desktop, composite will screw everything up
<nove>
paulk-collins: this was only created to be used as a test bed for the reverse engineering work, and never intended to be used by end users
<ikeeki>
nove: it is a shame, cause, it is very near of a great performance
<paulk-collins>
yeah I know, still I'd like to give it a try :)
<ikeeki>
if you do not want to have too much prob, I'd recommend you my distro (no spam of my work , it is just that I have inverted many hours on that, and if you can save those hours, I'd be happy)
<paulk-collins>
thanks, maybe I'll look into it
<paulk-collins>
it's just for a test though
<paulk-collins>
eventually I'm just going to port Android to it
<ikeeki>
In fact mime types are already set, so if it just a test it'll be just a double click operation (after having installed the image onto a sdcard, of course)
<ikeeki>
good night guys
<oliv3r>
nn ikeeki
<ikeeki>
yes
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<oliv3r>
paulk-collins: on fedora 19 i got it to work i belive
<paulk-collins>
ikeeki, bye!
<paulk-collins>
oliv3r, alright
<paulk-collins>
maybe I'll just build mplayer
<ikeeki>
night kivutar, sorry for the lack of feedback, lately I've had a good bunch of probs
<kivutar>
ikeeki, no problem!
<ikeeki>
No, in fact it is a prob for me, Im raring to test more, but I usually bit more than I can chew, Iĺl do it eventually
<ikeeki>
bye
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<paulk-collins>
meh, I give up for now
<libv>
yay, found the random fb start bug in my userspace code meant for u-boot
* libv
can now try to transplant it over
<oliv3r>
yay!
<oliv3r>
paulk-collins: what problems are you getting?
<libv>
ssvb: edid will not be done.
<ssvb>
libv: is there some fundamental problem, or just not enough time for it?
<libv>
at first glance, it is still doing edid from before a whiny belgian came along
<libv>
but i'll have a more thorough look when i have u-boot running reliably with the hardcoded modeline
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<Turl>
libv: diff --stat? :)
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<libv>
it's truly astounding how backwards anything embedded is
<ssvb>
libv: ok, makes perfect sense
<libv>
Turl: sub 1kloc
<Turl>
:)
<libv>
there is a high probability that some asshole will throw this quick and dirty hdmi only code into kms from afar, and call it the greatest thing since boiled water, followed by calling me a poopoo
<Turl>
lol
<libv>
Turl: it only happens in like half the things i do or so
<Turl>
libv: that's easy to fix, keep a public repo with the kms stuff
<libv>
no, because then my halfarsed code will have something similar happen
<nove>
(look to us for a example, vdpau-sunxi is been used in who knows were)
<oliv3r>
nove: oh? do tell!
<nove>
oliv3r: doesn't olimex have it included in her official images?
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<oliv3r>
debian versions likley
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<nove>
there is not problem to use it, but when they(the users) don't know were they are get into, and then seeing the word "vdpau" only ends in confusion when things don't work as expected