<TUSF>
I'm not really sure I understand its use-case, but it looks to be for connecting straight to peers, regardless of IP address... or something like that.
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<deltab>
TUSF: right; also negotiating NAT< tunnels, etc.
<deltab>
a layer called libp2p, which ipfs (and something things) build on
<naszam[m]>
How can one reach wikipedia through cloudflare-ipfs.com?
<TUSF>
So what else uses libp2p, and is there a reason for IPFS exposing it?
<lgierth>
polkadot, livepeer, filecoin, the early ethereum 2.0 work
<lgierth>
the reason to expose it simply so other projects can make use of it, and build a big common underlying p2p network
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<naszam[m]>
Thanks! @JCaesar
<TUSF>
Curious about what CF plans to do with that gateway… It's not like having a gateway makes your CDN more decentralized or anything.
<TUSF>
Theory I had was that they want IPFS to gain more traction so they can push for adoption in browsers or something, so they can just start offloading traffic onto the IPFS network.
<TUSF>
Just feels like a weird move for a CDN to do, I guess.
<ex-parrot>
probably just a PR move / skunkworks thing?
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<AphelionZ>
does CF expose their swarm ports?
<AphelionZ>
TUSF:
<AphelionZ>
oops
<AphelionZ>
i was just gonna say maybe CF can make more profit by improving IPFS, kinda like how Google benefits by the web being better
<TUSF>
Well, I can understand why Google would benefit from everyone using HTTPS (ads can be co-opted by a third party), and websites not using shitty ads (encourages users to install ad-blockers), but not sure why CF would want anyone to use something like IPFS
<AphelionZ>
yeah
<AphelionZ>
maybe they just think they can charge norms for it
<ex-parrot>
I think it's a distraction away from how CF is eating the Internet
<ex-parrot>
trying to position themselves as friendly to engineering communities etc
<AphelionZ>
mm
<TUSF>
Assuming IPFS does get implemented in browsers or something, it'd supposedly hurt services like CloudFlare which depend on the web being centralized.
<TUSF>
So a harmless gateway I guess would serve as a distraction
<TUSF>
For those that don't understand IPFS loses most of its benefits when you only use a public gateway.
<AphelionZ>
i asked about the swarm peers because if i could add CF to my bootstrap list or connect to it as a peer then yes, A+++ good, would swarm again, etc
<AphelionZ>
peer with CF's servers and use a local gateway and that'd be pretty nice for a lot of content
<AphelionZ>
they also probably get tons of good research / analytics with their level of traffic
<TUSF>
Yeah, that's the other bit. analytics from people using their gateway.
<ex-parrot>
plus I assume cloudflare is a big govt snooping collection point
<ex-parrot>
lawful intercept etc
<AphelionZ>
im starting to become of the mindset that any bits flowing into IPFS should be encrypted, no ifs ands or buts
<AphelionZ>
and its just a matter of when/how you share the keys
<AphelionZ>
obv im probably a dope and there's already tools / writing about this :P
<AphelionZ>
like i have a wacky idea of replacing / augmenting an MTA program like "procmail" with "ipfs add" and piping fetchmail into it lol
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<TUSF>
Yeah, I do feel data being transferred over IPFS should be encrypted. Yeah, the content you ask for can't be modified thanks to content hashes and all, but some people don't really want anyone in between know *what* they're looking at.
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<ex-parrot>
I think if we're willing to agree that all TCP connections should be using TLS (e.g. all HTTP should be HTTPS) then ensuring privacy of content in transit seems like a pretty obvious must-have to me
<AphelionZ>
"its not that I have anything to hide, it's just that I have nothing that I want everybody to see"
<AphelionZ>
yeah im talking at rest too
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<AphelionZ>
like, i dont know if anybody should ever just do a naked "ipfs add" on a file without encrypting it first
<AphelionZ>
or maybe im just experimenting with being a radical purist :D
<AphelionZ>
but that's what i think
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<AphelionZ>
finally for record I'm totally willing to agree w/r/t TLS
<TUSF>
I figured the simplest idea would be if someone asks for a block, to encrypt it with that person's public key so only they can decrypt it. Everyone on the network already has these keys by default right? Or is tehre some kind of security issue with using the node's key for that?
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<AphelionZ>
ipfs get should just grab the contents of the block warts and all and if you can decrypt it, nice... if not, too bad
<AphelionZ>
there's some public key we all share and thus still have the capability to make something "public"
<AphelionZ>
but man, if this is supposed to be one big shared hard drive...
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<swedneck[m]1>
my point is, trying to use IPFS as remote storage right now is not going to work
<swedneck[m]1>
filecoin will ofc make that possible though
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<lidel>
swedneck[m]1, ah, you mean the need for someone caring to keep your data around?
<swedneck[m]1>
yeah
<lidel>
there are commercial pinning services around, i think, but yeah
<swedneck[m]1>
also if someone's worried about other people getting their data, i'm not sure why they'd look toward a protocol that's explicitly for sharing data
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<r0kk3rz>
syncthing is probably a better tool for private personal use
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<swedneck[m]1>
syncthing is great, but it doesn't really work if you want a centralized place to always be able to access your data
<swedneck[m]1>
you could set up nextcloud, but that was hard enough for me, and i've set up a synapse server :/
<r0kk3rz>
if you want a centralised place, wtf are you doing with ipfs?
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<edd[m]>
hi hi
<edd[m]>
new to ipfs, i was wondering if there's a way to add a directory to ipfs but excluding some files/dirs?
<swedneck[m]1>
hide the directories/files and don't use the -H flag
<edd[m]>
"hide" them?
<swedneck[m]1>
put a . infront
<swedneck[m]1>
or wait, are you on windows?
<edd[m]>
oh, right
<edd[m]>
it's my website, which is being served via https too, there's some htaccess guarded sections of the site
<edd[m]>
it's not really feasible to move them
<edd[m]>
im on openbsd
<swedneck[m]1>
can you copy the entire directory?
<edd[m]>
yeah, i might just copy the bits i want to serve up
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<lidel>
edd[m], you are able to create new CID by patching (addin/removing items) a directory object, see: ipfs object patch --help
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<edd[m]>
i see
<edd[m]>
i think i need to start simple :)
<lidel>
that is useful if your data is already in IPFS and you just want to create a new "view" into it
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<edd[m]>
i see
<lidel>
if you want to filter out some files when doing `ipfs files add`, then we don't have rsync-like --exclude (but PR welcome, i guess)
<lidel>
so you create a directory structure you want first, and do `ipfs add` on that
<lidel>
or add only specific files one-by-one and build directory tree using `ipfs object patch add-link`
<lidel>
(those are two ways I see)
<edd[m]>
ok
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<JCaesar>
add all first and remove after sounds rather dangerous...
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<edd[m]>
right
<edd[m]>
is it right that `ipfs publish` takes a long time?
<edd[m]>
`ipfs name publish` sorry
<JCaesar>
usually, yes.
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<JCaesar>
(the other option for getting a folder into ipfs btw is to write your own sync tool. if you dont have crazy requirements like https://github.com/jcaesar/ipfs-sync rust and handling directories with 66000 files, it shouldnt be that hard.)
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<edd[m]>
ok, so i added my website, and I can `ipfs ls` it
<edd[m]>
so many questions! really interesting system
<swedneck[m]1>
you'll want to set a different gateway in the extension too
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<edd[m]>
so what about security? I lose the ability to host via https, right?
<edd[m]>
i bet you've answered this so many times, you have a really good answer :)
<swedneck[m]1>
nope, i just have a good understanding of it due to being a big fan :P
<swedneck[m]1>
visitors still get the website via https, that's what the gateway does
<swedneck[m]1>
it's a gateway between ipfs and http
<edd[m]>
so how do visitors know that the site served up by the gateway is really authentic?
<edd[m]>
i.e. authored by me
<swedneck[m]1>
the dns record
<swedneck[m]1>
although i guess the gateway could send whatever it wanted to, but so could any server
<swedneck[m]1>
if you want to make sure no one else can send the wrong data, host your own gateway
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<swedneck[m]1>
at least with ipfs people who care can check the dnslink and verify that other gateways send the same data, or just fetch it directly from ipfs
<edd[m]>
but if i click the extension icon, it shows everything as offline
<r0kk3rz>
cloudflare had an interesting mechanism for verifying gateway stuff
<swedneck[m]1>
do you have a node running?
<r0kk3rz>
but it requires browser extensions, which kinda defeats the purpose of the gateways in the first place
<edd[m]>
if any of the extension needs native code, it's unlikely to work on openbsd ;)
<r0kk3rz>
i think it was all js by the looks of it
<edd[m]>
either way: `ipns://<myhash>` shows an error
<swedneck[m]1>
can openbsd run go binaries?
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<edd[m]>
yes
<edd[m]>
the site is served to ipfs fine
<edd[m]>
hitting a gatwway works
<swedneck[m]1>
so you're running a local node?
<edd[m]>
but just not via the extension
<Mikaela>
Is ipfs-companion mentioned anywhere on ipfs.io? I had difficulties understanding the point of IPFS in websites until I found it with Google as I thought that everything would always go through gateway and my own instance would be pointless. I also find it weird that Tor recommends against gateways while IPFS seems to demand them.
<edd[m]>
i'm running `ipfs daemon` on a vps
<swedneck[m]1>
edd: ah, that's the problem
<swedneck[m]1>
for ipfs-companion to work you need a local node
<edd[m]>
so run `ipfs daemon` locally?
<swedneck[m]1>
yes
<edd[m]>
ok, let's try that
<swedneck[m]1>
and you'll want it to run on startup ideally
<swedneck[m]1>
otherwise you'll have to start it manually every time, which sucks
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<swedneck[m]1>
btw if you have a vps you should be able to use that as gateway
<edd[m]>
i see
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<r0kk3rz>
Mikaela: the idea is that gateways are a stop gap measure before browsers natively support ipfs
<swedneck[m]1>
you should just need to point a dns record at the ip
<lidel>
Mikaela, ipfs-companion is a way to upgrade content from http gateways to native IPFS by redirecting requests to your local IPFS node. Gateways are useful step in upgrade path because you can send a link to someone without IPFS client and it will still load in any web browser.
<Mikaela>
Sorry, I am being unclear, before CloudFlare implemented their gateway, I had tried IPFS once, but not understood how it works as I didn't know of IPFS companion until I googled it separately as the documentation told me nothing about browsers or their support
<swedneck[m]1>
or localhost:8080/ipns/ipfs.io
<swedneck[m]1>
yeah ipfs-companion should probably the first thing people see honestly
<edd[m]>
it's taking an age, so i guess something is happening
<swedneck[m]1>
what's your bandwidth?
<edd[m]>
page has the right <title> now :P
<edd[m]>
i dunno tbh, the vps should be fast
<edd[m]>
im in a shared office atm
<swedneck[m]1>
no i mean your local bandwidth lol
<swedneck[m]1>
do normal websites load fast?
<edd[m]>
it's working anyway
<edd[m]>
normal websites are fast yeah
<swedneck[m]1>
aight
<edd[m]>
just waiting for images now :)
<edd[m]>
so, why is the companion not connecting i wonder
<swedneck[m]1>
hmm
<swedneck[m]1>
wait a second
<swedneck[m]1>
when i told you to change the gateway in the extension, what field did you edit?
<swedneck[m]1>
you want to edit the "public gateway", not "custom gateway"
<edd[m]>
"Default Public Gateway"
<edd[m]>
i editted
<swedneck[m]1>
alright
<swedneck[m]1>
i have no clue.. it should just work
<swedneck[m]1>
i suck at helping when i don't have things in front of me :/
<bennofs[m]>
what's the number of nodes to expect in the network? I am running ipfs-crawl and it is connected to ~660 nodes right now it appears (number of open file descriptors it has)
<bennofs[m]>
660 nodes would seem quite small
<swedneck[m]1>
ipfs-companion usually shows around 800 for me, but it's showing 350 rn
<swedneck[m]1>
no clue if that means anything though
<Mikaela>
I currently see 460, but my network may be a bit weird as I am behind MiFi with native IPv6 and CGN (and the devices own NAT).
<Mikaela>
(and the device needs a reboot again as it has lost IPv6 -.-)
<edd[m]>
ok, must get on, but nice chatting
<edd[m]>
i'll hang around here to learn more :)
<bennofs[m]>
are those all the nodes in the network?
<swedneck[m]1>
o/
<bennofs[m]>
seems really small compared to something like mainlinedht with estimated 3 million nodes
<swedneck[m]1>
it's definitely not the entire network
<swedneck[m]1>
iirc cloudflare said there's about 1 million nodes
<edd[m]>
ok, one more question
<edd[m]>
is there a quick way to re-publish a dir tha tI can put in a cron job?
<edd[m]>
sure, i can write a script to parse out the last hash from the `add` output...
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<swedneck[m]1>
`ipfs add -Q` will output only the final hash
<edd[m]>
ah neat
<swedneck[m]1>
ofc to actually update the dns record you'll need some api to do that
<bennofs[m]>
swedneck: if that's the case, shouldn't a crawler find quickly more than thousand nodes?
<edd[m]>
`ipfs add -Q dir/ | xargs ipfs publish`
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<bennofs[m]>
or is the network so segmented
<swedneck[m]1>
don't forget -r
<edd[m]>
oh yah
<swedneck[m]1>
and -w if you want the directory to be named
<swedneck[m]1>
say you run `ipfs add -r public/`, the final hash will be of the public/ folder, and thus paths will be Qm.../index.html
<swedneck[m]1>
with `ipfs add -wr public/`, the paths will be Qm.../public/index.html
<edd[m]>
i see
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<edd[m]>
can it take a little while for updates to propagate to gateways?
<edd[m]>
i guess they are caching
<swedneck[m]1>
i think so yes
<swedneck[m]1>
i have my gateway literally in the same room as my desktop, so it's very fast for me
<swedneck[m]1>
that's one of the cool things about ipfs, it can get data from the LAN
<edd[m]>
i'll try later in the day
<swedneck[m]1>
i'm always happy to (try to) help!
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<bennofs[m]>
how do I use gx? do I need to manually find ipfs hashes for deps? Is there a way to automatically rewrite all hashes to latest versions?
<olizilla>
heh, those numbers are ideal, all my content is far to esoteric
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<olizilla>
hmm... how to make the ui more clearly show that those numbers represent the current usage rather than the max potential bandwidth
<swedneck[m]1>
oh i thought that was like, your internet speeds
<swedneck[m]1>
makes more sense that it's measuring ipfs activity :P
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<voker57>
should be probably called "traffic" or something, not speed
<swedneck[m]1>
yeah
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<bennofs[m]>
or maybe include the max as well?
<swedneck[m]1>
you should really know your max bandwidth
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<swedneck[m]1>
i want an ipfs website that gets a markdown file and renders it into html clientside, anyone got some resources on how to accomplish this?
<r0kk3rz>
find a markdown js formatting library
<swedneck[m]1>
any you'd recommend?
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