devyn changed the topic of #elliottcable to: 22:53:14 <+whitequark> also there was a fragment about Swiss embassy being located on top of a 1000-ft pole, inside which there was a gigantic arms exhibit
<joelteon>
OMFG
<joelteon>
I HAVE DEFEATED MYSQL
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<cuttle>
devyn, whitequark: so I'm trying to design a teeny reactive library in js to make html5 games and I'm not sure how to structure the whole events-vs-signals thing
<cuttle>
i want to have things that are values over time, like characters' positions
<cuttle>
and i want to have things that are processable streams of events, like keybaord presses
<cuttle>
and i don't know whether to unify the two and model one on top of the other, or separate them
<alexgordon>
cuttle!
<cuttle>
alexgordon: !
<cuttle>
alexgordon: what do you think about this issue?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
hi ,all
<cuttle>
ELLIOTTCABLE: hi
<cuttle>
I think I've decided what to do
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
re what?
<cuttle>
I'm going to like, build it on events, and have some things that are state-holders
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
need to learn atomo, it sounds nice
<cuttle>
and this will apply not only to my little library but also to Hands
<cuttle>
ELLIOTTCABLE: yeah, it's way neat
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
"my little library" er wat
<cuttle>
just a perusal of the docs is probably good
<cuttle>
probably not Real World Ready idk
<cuttle>
ELLIOTTCABLE: yeah I decided to make a little reactive JS library :p
<cuttle>
probably only a few hundred loc
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
oh? why? and what?
<cuttle>
to make games with
<cuttle>
and also experiment with ideas more easily than making a whole language
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<devyn[k]>
aloha
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
hi, devyn[k]
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
wtf are you cracked
<devyn[k]>
I am elsewhere
<devyn[k]>
I should put an encrypted SSH key on a USB drive
<devyn[k]>
along with PuTTY
<devyn[k]>
but I don't have that
<devyn[k]>
so, this
<joelteon>
hey there's an idea
<joelteon>
i might do that
<joelteon>
it is a physical item
<alexgordon>
cuttle: I think that this is above my paygrade
<alexgordon>
cuttle: I am just a humble java programmer
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: what?
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: english motherfucker, do you speak it?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
do you still want this iPhone? or are you getting a new phone or anything?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm finally home in Chicago, and my girlfriend isn't around distracting me, her birthday's over, and I'm sitting at my counter with my laptop, about to back it up so I can wipe it
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
if you still want it … :x
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
#twomonthslate
<cuttle>
ELLIOTTCABLE: yeah that would be sweet
<cuttle>
ELLIOTTCABLE: i have a semi-crappy mostly-dumbphone right now :p
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: wipe it? what did you get over it
<alexgordon>
which file on your enormous drobo was it this time?
<joelteon>
i want a drobo
<joelteon>
so like
<joelteon>
how many slots do they have? 4?
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: huh?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
joelteon: don't get a drobo. ew.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Pegasus P4 or P6, they're excellent, high-end Thunderbolt raids.
<alexgordon>
joelteon: there's two slots but you're not allowed to use one of them
<joelteon>
ok
<joelteon>
how much do they cost ELLIOTTCABLE
<joelteon>
oh
<joelteon>
a thousand dollars
<joelteon>
ok i don't need redundant storage that much
<joelteon>
not yet
<joelteon>
i just need an external HD
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: have you bought one of those 4K displays yet?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
nope
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
no 4k display or Mac Pro for me. don't need 'em.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
would rather spend the money on hi-fi gear, or hiring somebody to code for me, or on 3D printers and mills and learning to fucking Electronics™ and Gadget™ #verbify
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: you disappoint me
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
sozz
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
priorities changed this year :P
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
in the computer world … if it doesn't make Paws happen, then I don't care about it.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
spend so little time on my computers nowadays. /=
<alexgordon>
what do you spend time on top of?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
a plane.
<joelteon>
guys
* ELLIOTTCABLE
shrugs
<purr>
¯\(º_o)/¯
<joelteon>
what external HD should i buy
<joelteon>
for backups
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
at some point, I got bad at programming
<joelteon>
and music
<joelteon>
and movies
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
joelteon: just bought my girlfriend a LaCie
<joelteon>
backups and music and movies
<alexgordon>
joelteon: I got a hitachi 1TB USB 3 drive
<alexgordon>
it's great
<joelteon>
hm
<joelteon>
i want a thunderbolt
<joelteon>
but its not a dealbreaker
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Thunderbolt! :P
* alexgordon
is too old to have thunderbolt
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Love it so much.
<alexgordon>
I have mini displayport instead
<joelteon>
yeah lacie doesn't do thunderbolt
<joelteon>
oh well
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
er, wat?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm literally holding a LaCie thunderbolt drive right now.
<whitequark>
cuttle: signals and events are generally distinct
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<whitequark>
ey olks
<whitequark>
i need anyone
<whitequark>
to elp me speak coerently
<whitequark>
nevermind
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<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: first step
<yorickpeterse>
get off IRC
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: my keyboard is broken
* whitequark
is currently using an external one
<joelteon>
what is the transformation of ä -> ae, ö -> oe, etc. called?
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<cuttle>
whitequark: yeah i'm coming to realize why that's a good idea
<whitequark>
cool
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<cuttle>
whitequark: because like, zipping makes sense on signals, whereas merging makes sense on streams
<cuttle>
etc.
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<cuttle>
you *can* model streams as signals with like, each point in time having the set of currently occuring events, and you can represent a signal as a stream of changes in value, but neither is very fun
<alexgordon>
hi cuttle
<cuttle>
hi alexgordon
<whitequark>
yea it quickly becomes a tarpit tat way
<cuttle>
yeah
<cuttle>
do you think I should make signals pull-based or push-based?
<whitequark>
pull-based are more lexible
<whitequark>
(guess wic letters broke on my keyboard)
<whitequark>
plus tey play muc better wit lainess
<whitequark>
i you don't listen to te signal and don't keep reerences its source can be gc'd1
<whitequark>
tat was a problem or me in ocaml's react wic oers pus-bsed signals only
<cuttle>
hahaha it's locks all over again
<whitequark>
locks/
<cuttle>
locks didn't have a c on his keyboard so he kept it in his clipboard
<whitequark>
lol
<purr>
lol
<cuttle>
and so it'd be like
<cuttle>
LOKSc
<whitequark>
in my case tere's a airline racture somewere in te keyboard matrix
<whitequark>
so a wole 'row' o buttons doesn't work
<cuttle>
so this is in javascript so laziness isn't an issue
<whitequark>
except to reduce gosting it's not correspondent to actual rows
<whitequark>
cuttle: um ocaml is eager too
<cuttle>
yeah I know
<cuttle>
:p
<whitequark>
it's ust tat wit pus signals you can't really ae say a generator o lie numbers
<whitequark>
or say a lie eed rom some website
<whitequark>
you get te idea rigt/
<whitequark>
arg uck tis
<cuttle>
hahahahaa
<cuttle>
generator of line numbers? or what numbers
<whitequark>
i ucking ate tis ucking keyboard
<whitequark>
o prime numbers it sould ae been te typical example or lainess
<cuttle>
prime numbers
<cuttle>
yeah ok
<cuttle>
yeah
<whitequark>
endless sequences can be convenient in reactive environments
<whitequark>
what the fuck
<whitequark>
now it works.
<cuttle>
unless you make a delay
<whitequark>
hm?
<alexgordon>
how do I fund making a programming language?
<whitequark>
alexgordon: sell a kidney
<cuttle>
in fact events in my streams have times, and signals are continuous over time so
<alexgordon>
whitequark: good idea
<whitequark>
cuttle: that's how it is in all reactive environments
<whitequark>
but usually time isn't explicit
<whitequark>
because explicit time leads to resource usage horrors
<alexgordon>
the problem with most languages is that they're either hobbyist things that get abandoned, or they're Enterprise and designed by committee
<whitequark>
the root problem with languages is adoption
<whitequark>
everything else stems from that
<whitequark>
*shrug*
<purr>
¯\(º_o)/¯
<whitequark>
maybe you should explain it here in detail
<cuttle>
yeah i agree with the explicit time thing
<whitequark>
brb
<cuttle>
just, prime numbers would be an example of pull-based sequences
<alexgordon>
whitequark: adoption yes, but also tooling
<cuttle>
but i have push-based sequences and pull-based continuous values
<alexgordon>
I want to do like a kickstarter for a programming language, but that probably wouldn't work
<alexgordon>
I wonder if I could convince people to pay $10 a year for a language that actually works though
<cuttle>
hm
<cuttle>
there's such a prejudice against non-open-source stuff
<cuttle>
because it tends to be like oracle
<alexgordon>
cuttle: yeah it would have to be open source
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<whitequark>
alexgordon: i don't tink anyting not under mit is going to ly today
<whitequark>
cuttle: i'm not sure wy sould tey be dierent
<whitequark>
you can make a combinator conerting a pull interace to a pus interace triially
<whitequark>
but not ice ersa
<joelteon>
pus interface
<alexgordon>
whitequark: I agree
<alexgordon>
I prefer wtfpl myself
<alexgordon>
this is the problem
<whitequark>
uhm, can anyone remember a certain meme
<whitequark>
it's an incoherent english sentence
<whitequark>
I obviously can't describe it because it's incoherent
<whitequark>
"Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?"
<alexgordon>
whitequark: man, I can't remember either
<whitequark>
people aren't good at remembering incoherent things!
<whitequark>
(but see above, I just quoted it. god bless knowyourmeme)
<alexgordon>
ohhhh
<alexgordon>
just had an idea
<alexgordon>
of how to fund a programming language
<alexgordon>
AND how to get people to adopt it
<alexgordon>
alex, you're a genius
<whitequark>
does it involve penises?
<alexgordon>
nope
<whitequark>
meh
<alexgordon>
LOL
<purr>
LOL
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<cuttle>
whitequark: wait, why is it easier to convert pull to push
<cuttle>
whitequark: can't you just have a cache middleman that converts push to pull
<whitequark>
what I mean is that if your system is based around pull, pushing to it is trivial
<whitequark>
but not vice versa
<whitequark>
seee above about GCs
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<cuttle>
I guess I get it
<alexgordon>
cuttle: wanna hear my plan?
<cuttle>
alexgordon: sure
<alexgordon>
cuttle: what if you made a programming language with an app store