<cuttlebone>
whitequark: well, I think some people use it as an excuse for not spending the time to learn to think in another language. not every language that doesn't embody the same paradigm as C, Java, Ruby, Python, etc. is a puzzle langauge
<cuttlebone>
whitequark: although there are definitely languages that are more puzzley than others
<purr>
<ec> lung disturber.
<purr>
<Willox> Well. I ctrl+f'd paws. and it makes no sense still.
<purr\Paws>
Paws.js/Master 652cedc elliottcable: (doc meta GH) Adding npm and stillmaintained badges to the README
<purr\Paws>
Paws.js/Master bf9b7a2 elliottcable: (- tests up) Adding more browsers to our Testling suite
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I need to slow purr down, but I
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
am lazy.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles.”
<alexgordon>
sup ELLIOTTCABLE
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
mmm nmu
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
just got up
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
doing some light Paws.js project-maintenance shit
<alexgordon>
"so this girl i was totally in love with in high school is now pregnant with her boyfriend"
<alexgordon>
how old are you joelteon
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: click that FUCKING LINK.
<alexgordon>
k
<alexgordon>
joelteon: also sounds like you got the better deal
<alexgordon>
joelteon: do you want a pregnant girlfriend?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“alexgordon is anti-baby”
<alexgordon>
travel is much more fun sans girlfriend
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
> puts in his alexgordon file
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: lol, not anti-baby, just anti-baby at joelteon's age
<purr>
lol
<alexgordon>
whatever age that is
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
uhhuh
<alexgordon>
he sounds like he's 15
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
woah
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
clicking the notification in OS X opens the correct irc cloud tab
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
MIND BLOWN
<jvulc>
Exactly. Travelling with a pregger girlfriend doesn't sound appealing.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: OY VEY
<alexgordon>
joelteon: go travelling, fuck 10 hotter girls, feel better.
<jvulc>
Heh. Yeah. Irccloud is awesome.
<jvulc>
Do what he says.
<jvulc>
Increases the variety of multiracial kids that will look for you 18 years later.
<alexgordon>
yes, and TRY NOT TO GET THEM PREGNANT
<joelteon>
alexgordon: no i don't watn a pregnant girlfriend
<joelteon>
hell no
<jvulc>
"Try"
<joelteon>
it's annoying how happy she is
<joelteon>
even though i'm happy for her
<joelteon>
sorta
<joelteon>
i got the better deal in that i don't have a pregnant girlfriend
<jvulc>
I'd be happy its not mine too.
<joelteon>
but i got a worse deal in that the dating game is not so easy in northern california
<joelteon>
because there are 10 million guys like me and not a lot of women
<alexgordon>
joelteon: wait you live in NC too?
<joelteon>
yes
<joelteon>
i'm 40 miles south of sf
<joelteon>
she's 19 as well
<joelteon>
2 months older than me
<alexgordon>
joelteon: you're 19?
<jvulc>
Age is a number.
<joelteon>
i'm 19
<alexgordon>
definitely too young to have kids
<joelteon>
age is a number, correct jvulc
<joelteon>
that is how we measure it
<joelteon>
oh yeah, absolutely too young
<joelteon>
she thought she was unable to have kids for the longest time
<alexgordon>
oh northern california
<joelteon>
so logically they had unprotected sex a lot
<joelteon>
turns out that's not a great idea
<joelteon>
??
<alexgordon>
I read north carolina
<joelteon>
oh
<joelteon>
no
<alexgordon>
thinking you were a friend of elliott's
<joelteon>
sorry m8
<joelteon>
nah
<joelteon>
elliott is scary
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: when I'm on my deathbed, will you let me read this file?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
joelteon: … you live in North Carolina?
<joelteon>
NO
<joelteon>
i DON'T
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
oh holy crap jvulc
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
jvulc: jdhartley and dskuza and I were talking about you on the way to Culver's the other day.
<alexgordon>
joelteon: yeah, try not to have too much unprotected sex
<jvulc>
That logic escapes me. She's too young to really know if her oven worked or not and decides unprotected sex proves the theory.o
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
jvulc: which was hilarious, because the last time any of us had been thinking about you, was the *previous* time we'd all piled into a car and road-tripped to culver's with me.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
most reliable benchmark of Node I've ever seen.
<joelteon>
jvulc: they had sex for like, a year and a half before this
<joelteon>
unprotected
<joelteon>
and before that she had sex for two years with her last boyfriend
<alexgordon>
joelteon: it's actually relatively difficult to get pregant
<joelteon>
i think eventually it got in
<jvulc>
Yeah, Dave told me
<joelteon>
yeah, i figured
<joelteon>
it's just not
<joelteon>
3.5 years difficult
<alexgordon>
the average couple requires 6? months of unprotected sex to get pregnant
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
jvulc: you talk to David? fuckin' weird, bro. fuckin' weird.
<joelteon>
oh
<alexgordon>
I may have read that fact on reddit
<joelteon>
well, it's still depressing
<joelteon>
just saying
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I required approximately a week.
<alexgordon>
good job ELLIOTTCABLE
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
elliottcable-sperm.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
there, now you've thought about that.
<jvulc>
I talk to him on iMessage occasionally. I haven't talked to him in a while though though until you were all piled in a car getting food without me.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(you're welcome.)
<jvulc>
:(
<jvulc>
LOL reading how the IRC conversation went down ... "I think eventually it got in" ... "Yeah, Dave told me" ... oh that lack of context when reading things back.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE actually has only one sperm, but it is very effective
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: wat.
<purr>
beep.
<jvulc>
ELLIOTCABLE's sperm can strafe sideways and double jump with the right powerup.
<jvulc>
Welcome to #spermphysics
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ELLIOTTCABLE's sperm work three jobs to feed their children.
<alexgordon>
the only way ELLIOTTCABLE's sperm can impregnate someone is via anal intercourse
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: that one isn't even trying, pff
<jvulc>
That's what she said.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE's sperm are so loud that he is legally required to wear ear defenders when ejaculating
<joelteon>
what the fuck
<alexgordon>
xD
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ELLIOTTCABLE's sperm serve fruity drinks to teens in the United States
<joelteon>
dude what if a sperm was like 4 inches long
<joelteon>
and it just oozed out of your penis and plopped onto the floor
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ploop
<alexgordon>
I was just about to have lunch
<alexgordon>
not sure if I want to now
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
man, I just invited people I've met IRL to this channel
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
that was a mistake.
<alexgordon>
no no
<jvulc>
BIG MISTAKE
<alexgordon>
no more
<alexgordon>
promise
<alexgordon>
joelteon: so north california isn't good for sex?
<alexgordon>
strange
<alexgordon>
thought it was quite liberal
<joelteon>
well, not really
<joelteon>
well it's not good for dating in general, there aren't that many women here
<joelteon>
it's a male-dominated profession
<jvulc>
Everywhere I go isn't good for sex funny enough.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so, after hanging out with @mxcl for a while,
<joelteon>
sunnyvale, really
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I walk away to network a bit with others
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm later told that, as soon as I left, he goes “So that's Elliott Cable. He's a bit … larger than life.”
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
what the *fuck* does that mean.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
what's the normal size of one in relation to the size of one's life.
<jvulc>
Life's a bit anorexic, don't take it to heart.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
is one's size-to-life ratio a one-to-one correspondence under normal circumstances?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“@ChiperSoft: @ELLIOTTCABLE quineing and tarpits are software processes? those sound like things you’d do at a club.”
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
chiper: “quineing and tarpits are software processes? those sound like things you’d do at a club.” war.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
chiper: “quineing and tarpits are software processes? those sound like things you’d do at a club.” wat.
<purr>
beep.
<jvulc>
So wait, how does joelteon know this girl is having crazy amounts of unprotected sex? I hate women that narrate their sex life.
<joelteon>
because she narrates her sex life
<jvulc>
Seriously, if anyone is going to narrate, it ought to be Morgan Freeman.
<jvulc>
... and I'd actually listen. Weird.
<jvulc>
Anyways.
<joelteon>
yeah it was pretty depressing
<joelteon>
especially back in HS when i had classes with her
<jvulc>
92% of the time, women like that are lying and their vaginas smell like deli meat that's been sitting outside in 90 degree weather for over a week.
<jvulc>
Don't feel bad.
<jvulc>
You don't want it.
<jvulc>
If you do, she'll probably pop up on OkCupid in a few years.
<jvulc>
Complete with this child she's obviously trying to hide in the background while trying to jump start her dating life because whatever she was into didn't pan out.
<joelteon>
Nah, I don't think I want to get involved with her
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: LOL you so are
<purr>
LOL
<alexgordon>
larger than life
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
explain
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
plz
<alexgordon>
hm
<alexgordon>
I don't think it's a bad thing?
<alexgordon>
it's just that, you have your own fucking irc channel
<alexgordon>
named after you
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
not sure how that's relevant
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
it mostly talks about deli meat vaginas, anyway
<joelteon>
i don't have one
<alexgordon>
joelteon: a vagina? hope not
<joelteon>
no, an IRC channel
<joelteon>
just in case you guys were wondering, hsvm is coming along nicely
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Man, look at all the Twitter accounts I've forgotten. http://ell.io/isIL1
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
can somebody on a *non*-Retina display tell me if that is as fuzzy as it is for me?
<joelteon>
i have a retina and a non retina it's so cool
<joelteon>
that's sorta fuzzy but not really
<joelteon>
need to write some tests for hsvm now
<joelteon>
how do you test bash stuff
<joelteon>
i'm guessing bats
<joelteon>
but how do I test it?
<joelteon>
i don't want to actually install GHC, that seems painful
<joelteon>
well, I could just install a prebuilt one
<joelteon>
that wouldn't be hard
<joelteon>
and that tests whether it gracefully fails
<whitequark>
this was a weird backlog to read
<joelteon>
no way
<joelteon>
ok i think to do these tests properly i need to run a linux VM
<yorick>
joelteon: you forgot to ask again didn't you!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
yorick: that's me a year or so ago. What's so unsettling about it?
<yorick>
ELLIOTTCABLE: the smile
* inimino
imagines two Sheldons meeting for the first time.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I mean, other than that I look like a complete dickwad.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
nonono
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
if inimino is sheldon, then whitequark,
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
is Skeletor, Destroyer of Worlds
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
except code
<whitequark>
ELLIOTTCABLE: you look on that picture like you've already found a way to devour my soul, and is now carefully executing it in the background, while smiling at me knowing that my days are counted
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
idk I can't really put this joke together, I'm zeroing my inbox.
<inimino>
Haha, ok.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
whitequark: well, apparently, IRL, I simply look like I'm “larger than life.”
<whitequark>
ELLIOTTCABLE: that is not surprising
<whitequark>
also wtf is Skeletor
<joelteon>
devyn: what kind of shit
<jvulc>
He man, bitch.
<joelteon>
where what
<jvulc>
I like this evolving discussion on pregnant girlfriend envy some people in here are experiencing.
<jvulc>
It seems I scrollback and there's more sauce to this condomless dish of baking discussion.
<jvulc>
I'm kind of hungry. I haven't had lunch yet. Just ... nevermind that.
<joelteon>
hehe
<joelteon>
No, but seriously
<joelteon>
i guess I was unclear, but I don't want a pregnant girlfriend
<joelteon>
i'm jealous that she's happy and that i'm not as happy
<whitequark>
don't worry she'll stop being happy soon
<joelteon>
yeah, i know
<whitequark>
you'll die just as miserable though <3
<joelteon>
i know
<jvulc>
I mean, he'll either die in battle or you'll get to bone her while he's away.
<jvulc>
So what if she's white, he's white, and the kid is black?
<whitequark>
genetics!
<joelteon>
I don't really want to reconnect with her, I was just depressed this morning
<whitequark>
joelteon: #elliottcable wants you to. you will obey.
<joelteon>
I never should have brought it up
<joelteon>
o-ok
<jvulc>
Just look at some porn, flip on your TV, watch some Iron Chef, and pop in your favorite Queen album, and get off ... and all the thoughts of women will disappear for the next ... like five to ten minutes.
<jvulc>
It's what I do ... but whatever.
<whitequark>
alternatively start writing a compiler, and you'll never have to think about women again
<whitequark>
or have time to
<whitequark>
it's so efficient, it's amazing
<jvulc>
That, too.
<joelteon>
I'm writing bats tests for hsvm
<whitequark>
wtf hsvm?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
jvulc: you said the same thing, three times.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Look at some porn.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“flip on your TV.” done, for the porn.
<jvulc>
I was going to guess herpes ... but probably not right.
<joelteon>
GHC version manager
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“watch some Iron Chef.” … were you talking about some *other* kind of porn, the first time?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“pop in your favourite Queen album” it's playing on the Iron Chef porn.
<joelteon>
the only thing i've ever written that i'm proud of
<joelteon>
is hsvm
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
the only thing I've ever written that I'm proud of
<jvulc>
Because potentially underage, unavailable women = page clicks.
<whitequark>
cute
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
psychotic*
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
do you remember nothing, padawan jvulc
<whitequark>
he knows nothing!
<jvulc>
I've learned nothing in my years of training.
<inimino>
whitequark ⋱ Stuff. We should talk more later, it's a bit late here (UTC+8).
<jvulc>
Anger, hate, aggression, fear, sadness, hunger, food, cocks ... wait where am I going with this.
<jvulc>
I know nothing.
alextgordon has joined #elliottcable
<alextgordon>
gah
<alextgordon>
45 minutes ETA on mavericks install
<jvulc>
:D
jdhartley has joined #elliottcable
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
sorry if I'm quiet
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
talking to inimino
<jdhartley>
you should be sorry :(
<alextgordon>
why are so many J people here today
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
yeah, right?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
fuckin' tab-completion fail
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
hi joelteon
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
er, jdhartley
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(SEE!?)
<jdhartley>
hi
<purr>
jdhartley: hi!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
jdhartley: you missed a bit. <3
<jdhartley>
seven more and I'll have missed a byte
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“Your Apple ID, elliottcable@mac.com, was just used to make a purchase in Find Unfollowers On Twitter Base from the App Store on a computer or device that had not previously been associated with that Apple ID.”
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
… brb studiously *tonguing* my yogurt cup
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
chelsea's gonna get jealous.
<jdhartley>
just tell her its practice?
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<dskuza>
wassup bitches
<jdhartley>
now *I* want yogurt :(
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
hallo, dskuza
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
it's not even my yogurt
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I ganked it from Chelsea's roommate.
<dskuza>
i hear you were sticking your tongue in tiny holes
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
don't tell him. ;)
<dskuza>
ELLIOTTCABLE: wanna buy by ticket
<dskuza>
for that thing
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
wat
<dskuza>
twat
<dskuza>
so who in here's run through the SICP book that I'm supposed to be doing?
<jdhartley>
i have his number elliottcable i should text him
<jdhartley>
SVGs as <img> tags or background images
<whitequark>
dskuza: sicp, yeah, I did it looooong ago
<whitequark>
well not entirely
<whitequark>
idk what you want
<dskuza>
whitequark: enjoyable? :P ELLIOTTCABLE is making me join him on his SICP adventures
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
dskuza: the primary inspiration for my SICP plans, by the way, is inimino. Moreso than anyone else.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
coincidental, because I haven't talked to him in months, maybe even a year; and he shows up online again, less than a week after I finally download the SICP.
<whitequark>
dskuza: well perhaps, if you have a weird fetish
<whitequark>
I generally find programming textbooks boring, and advanced programming textbooks boring *and* hard
<whitequark>
(SICP is not advanced. To me at least)
<whitequark>
it's definitely packed with knowledge, but you'd have to find your own way to make it fun.
<whitequark>
try reading and understanding SICP while screwing elliottcable or something
* whitequark
shrugs
<purr>
¯\(º_o)/¯
<joelteon>
oh man
<joelteon>
i thought someone said hi to me
<joelteon>
you guys don't care
<jdhartley>
hi joelteon
<joelteon>
hi
<purr>
joelteon: hi!
<dskuza>
hi joelteon
<dskuza>
guys make it stop I keep adding @ in front of names on IRC
<alextgordon>
hi joelteon
<alextgordon>
joelteon: don't worry, you'll get someone preggers some day
<alextgordon>
OMG MAVERICKS HAS INSTALLED
<dskuza>
ALL THE DP
<dskuza>
DP ALL THE THINGS
joelteon has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
dskuza: wat.
<purr>
beep.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
d'awwww, your first wat, dskuza. adorable.
<jvulc>
Make a scrapbook.
<jdhartley>
i want to clone a repo from github but github is down
<jdhartley>
$100 million DDOS target
joelteon has joined #elliottcable
<joelteon>
did something just happen
<jvulc>
Yes. GitHub just had kittens.
<jvulc>
and it's back.
<jdhartley>
db failure
<jdhartley>
that sucks
<jvulc>
It depends on how often they back up ... also, they have redundancies?
<jvulc>
For some reason, every failure reminds me of that one time Microsoft bought Danger and then forgot to make backups. I think a billion sext messages were lost that day.
<jvulc>
Every failure reminds me of Microsoft (tm).
<alextgordon>
MAVERICKS
<dskuza>
DP
<dskuza>
8
<dskuza>
that's a lot of DPs
<dskuza>
ELLIOTTCABLE i'm good at wats. i make you facepalm all the time
<dskuza>
remember that one time i told you my plan was to kill myself and reincarnate as a better programmer?
alextgordon has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm talking about paws.js, not µpaws
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
genesis just records the operations of the parser itself
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
doesn't change *how* it works
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
it's for outputting debugging information, basically
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
if an object is generated *from source code* (i.e. a literal), then genesis information allowed me to construct a textual representation, hi lighted, that showed *where* that object was generated.
<yorick>
american acres are 0.016 m^2 bigger than international acres. fuck that
<joelteon>
automated tests are sooooo sick
<devyn>
joelteon: the best kind of shit.
<joelteon>
no what are you talking about
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eligrey has joined #elliottcable
<alextgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: why are you spamming my twittars?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
look at rein henrichs, not me
<alextgordon>
twitter.app won't show me the original thing you were talking about -_-
<alextgordon>
cuttlebone: this reminds me of how statistics and AI are basically the same thing, but AI is at best pseudo-science and statisticians actually know what they're doing ;)
<cuttlebone>
lol
<purr>
lol
<cuttlebone>
ELLIOTTCABLE: REALLY COOL
<cuttlebone>
alextgordon: you know curry-howard, right?
<alextgordon>
yeah
<alextgordon>
EVERYTHING IS CONNECTED
<alextgordon>
/tinfoil
<alextgordon>
9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
actually, speaking of that, it was.
<alextgordon>
was it?
<alextgordon>
first evolution, now this
<alextgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: DUUUUUUDE, I SAW SOME CHEMTRAILS IN THE SKY TODAY, MAN
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
stop being an idiot.
<alextgordon>
literally impossible.
<cuttlebone>
ELLIOTTCABLE: what do you mean about 9/11
<joelteon>
what happened november 9th?
<alextgordon>
remember remember the 9th of november
<cuttlebone>
lol europe funy
<purr>
lol
<dskuza>
fuck IE8
<dskuza>
should've used SVGs from the start
<alextgordon>
cuttlebone: so I worked out how to build furrow. I'm doing EVERYTHING as human readable plain text files, each with its own mini DSL
<cuttlebone>
alextgordon: oh yeah you mentioned that
<cuttlebone>
yeah
<cuttlebone>
cool
<alextgordon>
cuttlebone: then I'm using python to generate code for all of that
<cuttlebone>
cool
<alextgordon>
e.g. I have a file operators.txt with all the operators and their associvity/precedence
<alextgordon>
a file keywords.txt with the keywords, etc
<dskuza>
write it in go
<dskuza>
bam.
<alextgordon>
lol
<alextgordon>
sure, when someone ports ragel and lemon to go ;)
<alextgordon>
cuttlebone: but I've been having major problems trying to work out the build/module system
<dskuza>
gimme a few months
<alextgordon>
me and whitequark were trying to figure it out
<cuttlebone>
alextgordon: oh yeah I saw that
<cuttlebone>
alextgordon: what specific problems are you having?
<alextgordon>
cuttlebone: well compile time really
<alextgordon>
I want it so that if you change one module, it doesn't require other modules to be recompiled unless necessary
<cuttlebone>
alextgordon: anyway i'd be too lazy to parse mini languagse to write a language so I'd use like json or some shit
<cuttlebone>
for the mini languages
<cuttlebone>
mhm
<alextgordon>
I'm Dr Parse so it doesn't affect me :P
<cuttlebone>
haha
<alextgordon>
I just do it with regexes in python anyway :P
<cuttlebone>
i am good at parse too
<cuttlebone>
did you see my little parser in mupaws
<alextgordon>
along with the two types of functions
<cuttlebone>
two types of functions?
<alextgordon>
header functions and source functions
<cuttlebone>
ewwww
<alextgordon>
static functions and extern functions
<alextgordon>
.hpp functions and .cpp functions
<alextgordon>
:P
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-clouds
<purr>
ELLIOTTCABLE: is stuck up in the clouds; hilight 'em if you want 'em.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-ground
<purr>
ELLIOTTCABLE: is no longer stuck up in the clouds.
<cuttlebone>
I FELL IN LOVE AGAIN
<cuttlebone>
ALL THINGS GO
<cuttlebone>
ALL THINGS GO
<cuttlebone>
DROVE TO CHICAGO
<cuttlebone>
ALL THINGS GO
<cuttlebone>
ALL THINGS GO
<alextgordon>
cuttlebone: well there's three ways of dealing with it: 1. make everything a static function (function call graph must be acyclic), 2. make everything an extern function (no fast polymorphism), 3. have both
<alextgordon>
the first two options are worse :P
<cuttlebone>
well like
<cuttlebone>
object files suck dick
<cuttlebone>
then
<cuttlebone>
because i can think of billions of better solutions off the top of my head
<alextgordon>
like what
<alextgordon>
object files solve the problem of not having to compile the WHOLE thing each time
<cuttlebone>
have cyclicality decoupled from private/public to module
<alextgordon>
I could just throw it all in one .cpp file
<alextgordon>
but that would be majorly slow
<alextgordon>
also there'd be no static libraries, let alone dynamic libraries
* cuttlebone
nods
<alextgordon>
wait so to install DP8 I have to install DP4, then DP5, then DP6, then DP7, then DP8?
<joelteon>
foaas
<alextgordon>
this is going to take all night
<cuttlebone>
alextgordon: pretty sure the lines are the objects and the intersections are the morphisms in feynman diagrams
<whitequark>
do you object (no pun intended) to the object files themselves or the notion of separate compilation?
<cuttlebone>
whitequark: i object to the specific limitations of the format
<whitequark>
cuttlebone: elaborate?
<cuttlebone>
like
<cuttlebone>
alextgordon talking about things having to be either acyclic or public
<cuttlebone>
or whatever
<alextgordon>
right
<whitequark>
pretty sure you can have cyclic dependencies in object files
<alextgordon>
whitequark: hm, actually not sure
<alextgordon>
of static functions I mean
<whitequark>
C static functions have internal linkage
<alextgordon>
can you forward declare a static function? I didn't think so
<whitequark>
this doesn't in the slightest prevent them from referring to other static functions
<whitequark>
well
<whitequark>
it's representable in LLVM IR, therefore in ELF
<whitequark>
perhaps it's a limitation of C
<whitequark>
like, think about linking
<whitequark>
you take two object files and make them into one object file
<whitequark>
(which is incidentally executable but that doesn't matter)
<whitequark>
of course there's some way to represent internal cycles
<alextgordon>
anyway basically I just want to build a really kick ass build system and package manager
<alextgordon>
since these are the two things languages ALWAYS get wrong
<alextgordon>
syntax is too seductive
<alextgordon>
nobody ever bikesheds over build systems
<whitequark>
[insert a rant about syntax here]
<whitequark>
oh dude
<whitequark>
you have NO IDEA
<whitequark>
ocaml has four actively developed build systems, some of which based on one another, and two package managers tearing out each other's throat
<alextgordon>
ha
<whitequark>
well that sounds more dramatic than it is
<whitequark>
still
<whitequark>
there's a fuckton of bikeshedding over that all around, just not across language designers
<whitequark>
since neither is really related to languages; module systems are, though
<alextgordon>
I think the thing is that package management is ultimately part of the language itself, but it gets added on afterwards and thus suckage
<alextgordon>
you can't have a good package manager without a good module system
<whitequark>
true dat
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I did RubyConf 2005. Holy crap. That means I've coming up on having been writing software for a decade.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I suck at life.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
looking into RubyConf 2013, now.
<alextgordon>
my idea is that by making furrow's modules *extremely* simple, I should be able to build optimal package management and build systems
<whitequark>
alextgordon: conversely, add a good module system and you can leave package manager to someone else
<alextgordon>
a module has files, a file has imports and functions, functions have either external or internal visibility
<whitequark>
annnnd I think that a module system has a lot of common with good OO design
<whitequark>
separation of concerns, clean interfaces, implementation hiding
<alextgordon>
whitequark: maybe that's a good idea
<alextgordon>
whitequark: I worry about baggage though
<alextgordon>
often languages start with a "fuck it" package manager
<alextgordon>
but can't migrate away from it
<alextgordon>
because it's too much of a hurdle
<alextgordon>
though, that's more of a control thing
<whitequark>
well
<alextgordon>
if you're Apple, or Google Go, you retain absolute control over the language, and so you can *force* people to use the new package manager
<whitequark>
as ocaml's opam shows, repackaging stuff is really easy
<whitequark>
so I'd say fuck it
<alextgordon>
by contrast the C++ standards committee has no control whatsoever
<whitequark>
lol
<purr>
lol
<alextgordon>
even if they invented one, it would take decades to gain widespread use
<whitequark>
disagree on go
<whitequark>
we'll see forks.
<alextgordon>
ha
<alextgordon>
though interestingly
<alextgordon>
python has managed two transitions
<whitequark>
"managed"
<alextgordon>
xD
<alextgordon>
most python users use pip now
<alextgordon>
maybe I should just leave it then
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
fat fat fat.
<alextgordon>
let it percolate
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
make me less fat.
<alextgordon>
one day I'll figure it out
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
'k? 'k.
<whitequark>
yeah
<alextgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: eat less food
<whitequark>
that is not going to work
<whitequark>
source: personal experience
<whitequark>
:p
<alextgordon>
works for me :P
<whitequark>
it used to work when I was lazy and didn't cook for myself
<whitequark>
since I stopped being that, it's all fucking downhill
<alextgordon>
I've never been fat, so I'm probably a bad person to talk to about this
<alextgordon>
I'm just really lazy and don't eat enough meals
<whitequark>
it depends on what being fat is
<cuttlebone>
ELLIOTTCABLE: I'm coming up on a decade as well actually
<cuttlebone>
actually probably has been a decade
<cuttlebone>
started making games in Game Maker around 3rd-grade-age
* whitequark
's being programming as long as he can remember
<cuttlebone>
which was like 2003, or 8 years old
<whitequark>
ohh, game maker
<alextgordon>
3rd grade?!
<whitequark>
what a horrible piece of crap
<alextgordon>
damn
<alextgordon>
I started with BASIC when I was
<alextgordon>
erm
<cuttlebone>
whitequark: haha ikr
<alextgordon>
7?
<alextgordon>
but that doesn't really count
<cuttlebone>
whitequark: except somehow it had a perfect storm of features that made for rapid prototyping
<whitequark>
I moved buttons around in C++ Builder
<cuttlebone>
whitequark: but it's such a pile
<alextgordon>
actually no!
<whitequark>
cuttlebone: exactly
<alextgordon>
I think I used applescript when I was 6
<whitequark>
at 7 or 8
<whitequark>
actually I think this just turned into a dick-measuring contest
<whitequark>
which is sad
<cuttlebone>
hopefully my little system i'm assembling in js
<alextgordon>
:D
<cuttlebone>
will be funner
<cuttlebone>
for me
<cuttlebone>
than game maker
<cuttlebone>
whitequark: haha yeah
<alextgordon>
I WAS PROGRAMMING IN THE WOMB
<alextgordon>
I HAD A KEYBOARD AND EVERYTHING
<whitequark>
IS THAT A METAPHOR FOR PENIS
<alextgordon>
WE ALL STARTED OUT AS WIRED PERIPHERALS BUT SOON BECAME WIRELESS
<whitequark>
you definitely win the horrible joke contest
* alextgordon
takes a bow
<alextgordon>
I preferred talking about module systems ;P
<whitequark>
let's do it
<whitequark>
I've been thinking about module systems lately as well but it turns out that I invented almost exactly what go has